On 12/08/2010 03:43, Tom Lane wrote:
Marco Colombopg...@esiway.net writes:
It's a matter of correctness: I see PG as a high
performance database system. Allowing to start it in awfully suboptimal
conditions it's no different from allowing '-00-00' as a date: it
may give you the idea you
On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 10:08 AM, Marco Colombo pg...@esiway.net wrote:
Well, my idea was more along the line of automatically try to acquire a
reasonable amount of the available resources.
I challenge you to defined reasonable in a manner that will satisfy
more than 50% of the users in all
On Mon, 2010-08-30 at 15:42 -0400, Vick Khera wrote:
On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 10:08 AM, Marco Colombo pg...@esiway.net wrote:
Well, my idea was more along the line of automatically try to acquire a
reasonable amount of the available resources.
I challenge you to defined reasonable in a
On Thu, Aug 5, 2010 at 10:41 PM, John Gage jsmg...@numericable.fr wrote:
P. P. S. You want to get to grandma's house. You want to drive a car. You
want to learn to drive the car quickly.
You're driving to grandma's house because she needs cataract surgery.
You don't want to pay the surgeon,
Well in that sense, Oracle does cling to some old designs that suck for
most people's use-cases these days; most notably arbitrary-length indexable
text fields. In most Oracle-related applications you are stuck with
either an indexable nvarchar(4096) or an unindexable CLOB field (which
also
On 13/08/10 08:38, Tatsuo Ishii wrote:
It's slower than smaller numbers, and if you actually dirty a
significant portion of it you can have a checkpoint that takes hours to
sync, completely trashing system responsiveness for a good portion of it.
So how much is the reasonal upper limit of
On Fri, 13 Aug 2010 14:17:17 +0800
Craig Ringer cr...@postnewspapers.com.au wrote:
On 13/08/10 08:38, Tatsuo Ishii wrote:
It's slower than smaller numbers, and if you actually dirty a
significant portion of it you can have a checkpoint that takes
hours to sync, completely trashing system
On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 10:53 AM, Greg Smith g...@2ndquadrant.com wrote:
I'm happy that we've already made
a big step forward in helping new users here in that update. At least now
DBAs used to other systems who go looking for the how do I set the size of
the cache? knob will stumble on
On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 11:41 PM, Greg Smith g...@2ndquadrant.com wrote:
Sandeep Srinivasa wrote:
Maybe a tabular form would be nice - work_mem under...
The problem with work_mem in particular is that the useful range depends
quite a bit on how complicated you expect the average query
On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 12:37 PM, Scott Marlowe scott.marl...@gmail.comwrote:
On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 11:41 PM, Greg Smith g...@2ndquadrant.com wrote:
Sandeep Srinivasa wrote:
Maybe a tabular form would be nice - work_mem under...
The problem with work_mem in particular is that the
On Thursday 12. August 2010 08.29.13 Ma Sivakumar wrote:
What does a migrating PHP/MySQL user do? If MySQL performs fast just
out of box (I have not used MySQL), what is different there? Do MySQL
defaults give better performance? How do they arrive at those
defaults?
Or is it a completely
On Thu, 2010-08-12 at 11:59 +0530, Ma Sivakumar wrote:
What does a migrating PHP/MySQL user do? If MySQL performs fast just
out of box (I have not used MySQL), what is different there? Do MySQL
defaults give better performance? How do they arrive at those
defaults?
I have been watching this
On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 8:42 PM, Joshua D. Drake j...@commandprompt.com wrote:
GOOD PERFORMANCE IS ALWAYS RELIANT ON PROPER HARDWARE, DATABASE DESIGN
AND APPLICATION ARCHITECTURE. THIS TABLE IS A HINT ONLY. YOU WILL LIKELY
HAVE TO TUNE BEYOND THIS.
shared_buffers = 25% of available memory
About the shared buffers size configuration discussion:
Like a few others here, I've spent a sizable proportion of my career
dealing with this issue (not with PG, with other products I've developed
that had a similar in-memory page pool).
There are roughly six stages in understanding this
Joshua D. Drake wrote:
Can we just say in the docs say 25% of memory to shared_buffers
Yes, in fact we can. With the caveat of Windows, the reality is this
isn't going to hurt nearly as much as a untuned version of PostgreSQL
will.
With modern servers often shipping with 72GB of RAM now,
With modern servers often shipping with 72GB of RAM now, that would make
shared_buffers set to 18GB. This is an absolutely disastrous setting
for PostgreSQL in its current state; I'm seeing servers with that much
RAM that suffer enormous problems with a far lower shared_buffers than
that
Tatsuo Ishii wrote:
What's the problem with 18GB shared_buffers exactly
It's slower than smaller numbers, and if you actually dirty a
significant portion of it you can have a checkpoint that takes hours to
sync, completely trashing system responsiveness for a good portion of it.
--
Greg
Ma Sivakumar wrote:
There was also a point about making the installer create a recommended
postgresql.conf file.
After installation when the server is started for the first time, try
to start with postgresql.conf.suggested
If it starts successfully, let the user know that the server is
started
On Thu, 2010-08-12 at 20:01 -0400, Greg Smith wrote:
Joshua D. Drake wrote:
Can we just say in the docs say 25% of memory to shared_buffers
Yes, in fact we can. With the caveat of Windows, the reality is this
isn't going to hurt nearly as much as a untuned version of PostgreSQL
will.
It's slower than smaller numbers, and if you actually dirty a
significant portion of it you can have a checkpoint that takes hours to
sync, completely trashing system responsiveness for a good portion of it.
So how much is the reasonal upper limit of shared_buffers at this
point? If it's
Greg Smith wrote:
The problem is that few discussions happen on these lists for things
like how do I get used to PostgreSQL after growing up on MySQL? And
that material will never be appropriate for the PostgreSQL
documentation. I would highly encourage people to migrate their
On 11/08/2010 04:01, Greg Smith wrote:
3. The default configuration settings for PostgreSQL are not optimal
for performance. Can there be a recommended configuration file in the
installation (assuming certain amount of RAM and processor type) ?
This doesn't work because there are many
Daniel Verite wrote:
On the other hand, some of the notes already mentioned on the wiki, such as
for example:
http://www.xach.com/aolserver/mysql-to-postgresql.html
...are so outdated and/or bad that they're probably counter-productive.
...
IMHO such contents should simply be scraped/unlinked.
Marco Colombo wrote:
Well, many defaults are hardcoded into a file now. I'd like to see
'auto' among possible values of parameters, e.g.:
with PG wild guessing reasonable values based on system specs. It may
be a awful piece of code (getting system info is very platform
specific), and
On 11/08/2010 17:34, Greg Smith wrote:
The problem here is that the amount of shared memory a system can
allocate is hard to discover any other way than starting the server and
seeing if it works. So doing what you advise will leave the database
unable to start on any system that hasn't gotten
Marco Colombo pg...@esiway.net writes:
It's a matter of correctness: I see PG as a high
performance database system. Allowing to start it in awfully suboptimal
conditions it's no different from allowing '-00-00' as a date: it
may give you the idea you did the right thing, but most of
2010/8/12 Tom Lane t...@sss.pgh.pa.us:
Unfortunately, there are quite a few of us for whom correctness
doesn't mean automatically try to eat all the resources available.
Your view of what is useful behavior is far too narrow-minded ...
The point is, some one installing PostgreSQL for the
Ma Sivakumar wrote:
There can be a stronger and more prominent hint / recommendation in
postgresql.conf file, in install README, Resource Consumption section
of manual
(http://www.postgresql.org/docs/8.4/interactive/runtime-config-resource.html)
and other appropriate places
What you might
On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 10:53 AM, Greg Smith g...@2ndquadrant.com wrote:
If only it were that easy. 25%, but only on a dedicated server, don't go
above 8GB, limit to much less than that on Windows, and be extremely careful
if you're writing heavily lest large checkpoints squash you. Giving
Sandeep Srinivasa wrote:
Maybe a tabular form would be nice - work_mem under...
The problem with work_mem in particular is that the useful range depends
quite a bit on how complicated you expect the average query running to
be. pgtune tries to model this using an input of what type of
Randal L. Schwartz wrote:
Do not overemphasize the example mode at the cost of presenting concepts
or structure. You need all three.
Hmm I recently had to find out the various options to get values from a tuple
via SPI - referred by docs to the contrib examples :-(
Docs did not help and the
சிவகுமார் மா wrote:
1. Almost all webhosting providers have MySQL support, but PostgreSQL
support is available from only a few who also have MySQL support.
Hence MySQL is universal and PostgreSQL is present as also available.
http://www.postgresql.org/support/professional_hosting lists far
On Mon, Aug 9, 2010 at 1:51 AM, Scott Frankel fran...@circlesfx.com wrote:
On Aug 8, 2010, at 2:45 AM, Torsten Zühlsdorff wrote:
Scott Frankel schrieb:
On Aug 6, 2010, at 6:13 AM, Torsten Zühlsdorff wrote:
John Gage schrieb:
On reflection, I think what is needed is a handbook that
On Mon, Aug 9, 2010 at 12:15 PM, Allan Kamau kamaual...@gmail.com wrote:
There may be worry of copy and paste without proper understanding of
the code and concepts but this may be mitigated IMHO by fact that it
seems unlikely that when presented with a case to solve, simple copy
and paste of
Sandeep Srinivasa wrote on 09.08.2010 08:54:
The way I see it - for those who want to truly learn, there is the
documentation. For those who dont, there are ORMs.
Another of those ORM myths ;)
ORMs are not an alternative to learning SQL or understand how a DBMS works.
You need to be good at
On 09/08/10 14:54, Sandeep Srinivasa wrote:
The way I see it - for those who want to truly learn, there is the
documentation. For those who dont, there are ORMs.
Ha, I wish!
Despite being rather comfortable with SQL I've been using the Hibernate
ORM system in a project to try to reduce some
On Aug 8, 2010, at 2:45 AM, Torsten Zühlsdorff wrote:
*snip*
I understand and appreciate your position. Thanks for the
clarification.
While I believe that this thread has, for all intents and purposes,
run its course (and I look forward to reading the documentation it
informs), I'm
On Mon, Aug 9, 2010 at 2:28 PM, Michael A. Peters
mpet...@shastaherps.orgwrote:
I have 4x6 cards that I write the postgresql way of doing what I use to do
with MySQL so that I can easily reference them when I need to.
Should I sit down and read a book and go through the exercises?
Yes. But
It's not a requirement, just a reasonable default.
On Aug 7, 2010, at 11:09 AM, Martin Gainty wrote:
3)eliminate the requirement to create a postgres user to execute the server
binaries..I guess i never understood that requirement
--
Scott Ribe
scott_r...@elevated-dev.com
Joshua == Joshua J Kugler jos...@eeinternet.com writes:
Joshua I'll add in a me too only to say that I am someone that learns
Joshua best by example.
Keep in mind though that there are three primary learning modes:
- example
- concept
- structure
Do not overemphasize the example mode at the
On Mon, 2010-08-09 at 10:09 -0600, Scott Ribe wrote:
It's not a requirement, just a reasonable default.
The actual requirement is:
Thou shall not use a privelaged user, e.g; Administrator or UID = 0.
Not only is that a reasonable default, MySQL is broken because of
theirs.
Joshua D. Drake
On Monday 09 August 2010, Randal L. Schwartz elucidated thus:
Joshua == Joshua J Kugler jos...@eeinternet.com writes:
Joshua I'll add in a me too only to say that I am someone that
learns Joshua best by example.
Keep in mind though that there are three primary learning modes:
- example
-
On Monday 09 August 2010, Joshua D. Drake elucidated thus:
On Mon, 2010-08-09 at 10:09 -0600, Scott Ribe wrote:
It's not a requirement, just a reasonable default.
The actual requirement is:
Thou shall not use a privelaged user, e.g; Administrator or UID = 0.
Not only is that a reasonable
Joshua J. Kugler jos...@eeinternet.com writes:
On Monday 09 August 2010, Joshua D. Drake elucidated thus:
The actual requirement is:
Thou shall not use a privelaged user, e.g; Administrator or UID = 0.
Not only is that a reasonable default, MySQL is broken because of
theirs.
Hmm...I've
Scott Frankel schrieb:
On Aug 6, 2010, at 6:13 AM, Torsten Zühlsdorff wrote:
John Gage schrieb:
On reflection, I think what is needed is a handbook that features cut
and paste code to do the things with Postgres that people do today
with MySQL.
Everyone of my trainees want such thing -
On Aug 8, 2010, at 2:45 AM, Torsten Zühlsdorff wrote:
Scott Frankel schrieb:
On Aug 6, 2010, at 6:13 AM, Torsten Zühlsdorff wrote:
John Gage schrieb:
On reflection, I think what is needed is a handbook that features
cut and paste code to do the things with Postgres that people do
today
On 7 Aug 2010, at 5:19, Sandeep Srinivasa wrote:
+1 on this.
This is very interesting from the point-of-view of transitioning MySQL
webapps to Postgres. The truth is that for a lot of people, MySQL is their
first DB (because of loads of pre-existing software. Refer to my thread
Which
2010/8/7 Alban Hertroys dal...@solfertje.student.utwente.nl:
On 7 Aug 2010, at 5:19, Sandeep Srinivasa wrote:
+1 on this.
This is very interesting from the point-of-view of transitioning MySQL
webapps to Postgres. The truth is that for a lot of people, MySQL is their
first DB (because of
On 8/7/2010 4:24 AM, சிவகுமார் மா wrote:
4. A pet name
Is it possible to have a pet name which can be used in casual
conversation easily?
PG
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On 07/08/2010 11:24, சிவகுமார் மா wrote:
2010/8/7 Alban Hertroysdal...@solfertje.student.utwente.nl:
On 7 Aug 2010, at 5:19, Sandeep Srinivasa wrote:
+1 on this.
This is very interesting from the point-of-view of transitioning MySQL webapps to
Postgres. The truth is that for a lot of people,
...@gmail.com
CC: pgsql-general@postgresql.org
Subject: Re: [GENERAL] MySQL versus Postgres
On 07/08/2010 11:24, சிவகுமார் மா wrote:
2010/8/7 Alban Hertroysdal...@solfertje.student.utwente.nl:
On 7 Aug 2010, at 5:19, Sandeep Srinivasa wrote:
+1 on this.
This is very interesting from
2010/8/7 சிவகுமார் மா masivaku...@gmail.com
3. The default configuration settings for PostgreSQL are not optimal
for performance. Can there be a recommended configuration file in the
installation (assuming certain amount of RAM and processor type) ?
Ma Sivakumar
@postgresql.org
Subject: Re: [GENERAL] MySQL versus Postgres
On 07/08/2010 11:24, சிவகுமார் மா wrote:
2010/8/7 Alban Hertroysdal...@solfertje.student.utwente.nl:
On 7 Aug 2010, at 5:19, Sandeep Srinivasa wrote:
+1 on this.
This is very interesting from the point-of-view of transitioning
John Gage schrieb:
So, perhaps what is needed in any sort of battle with MySQL is an
introductory documentation that gives specific examples of how to
achieve oh wow! worthwhile results quickly with Postgres.
I receive my oh wow when i do the same things in Postgres like in
MySQL: Writting
On 6 August 2010 16:08, Torsten Zühlsdorff f...@meisterderspiele.de wrote:
I receive my oh wow when i do the same things in Postgres like in MySQL:
Writting some procedures, triggers and use foreign key. The oh wow was
that it just *works*. After some years of using MySQL this is a very
John Gage wrote on 06.08.2010 04:41:
But most people, including myself, don't even want to know the
documentation exists (for anything). We just want to plunge in and do it.
That just doesn't work and is an attitude that won't get you far.
In order to do things properly you need to learn and
On reflection, I think what is needed is a handbook that features cut
and paste code to do the things with Postgres that people do today
with MySQL.
Such a handbook, featured as the first section of the documentation,
would take readers through the steps necessary to set up an online
John Gage schrieb:
On reflection, I think what is needed is a handbook that features cut
and paste code to do the things with Postgres that people do today with
MySQL.
Everyone of my trainees want such thing - for databases, for other
programming-languages etc. It's the worst thing you can
I only said this to criticize it. And I agree completely with Thomas.
John
On Aug 6, 2010, at 2:09 PM, Thomas Kellerer wrote:
John Gage wrote on 06.08.2010 04:41:
But most people, including myself, don't even want to know the
documentation exists (for anything). We just want to plunge in
If I recall correctly William Shakespeare did a ton of cutting and
pasting. And he was not alone. My Fair Lady, one of the most
successful Broadway shows ever, contains whole sections from Shaw's
play.
We learn by imitation. I am not suggesting that once you cut and
paste you call it
I would also enquire whether one thinks that the examples should be
removed from the Postgres documentation for fear that they may be cut
and pasted into an application?
John
On Aug 6, 2010, at 3:13 PM, Torsten Zühlsdorff wrote:
John Gage schrieb:
On reflection, I think what is needed
On Aug 6, 2010, at 6:13 AM, Torsten Zühlsdorff wrote:
John Gage schrieb:
On reflection, I think what is needed is a handbook that features
cut and paste code to do the things with Postgres that people do
today with MySQL.
Everyone of my trainees want such thing - for databases, for
On Fri, Aug 6, 2010 at 11:02 AM, Scott Frankel fran...@circlesfx.com wrote:
On Aug 6, 2010, at 6:13 AM, Torsten Zühlsdorff wrote:
John Gage schrieb:
On reflection, I think what is needed is a handbook that features cut and
paste code to do the things with Postgres that people do today with
john, you're running up against a culture here, and trying to answer
the question: how to make a nerd cool? answer: it can't be done.
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On Fri, Aug 6, 2010 at 1:38 PM, zach cruise zachc1...@gmail.com wrote:
john, you're running up against a culture here, and trying to answer
the question: how to make a nerd cool? answer: it can't be done.
I'm all in favor of a nice tutorial section in the docs. But I
certainly don't want pgsql
On Fri, Aug 06, 2010 at 02:09:43PM -0600, Scott Marlowe wrote:
I'm all in favor of a nice tutorial section in the docs. But I
certainly don't want pgsql docs to mimick the mysql docs method of
using a tutorial method for most of the beginner information. It's so
dang hard to find anything I
In my fondest moments, I consider myself a nerd, and when I do I think
I am completely cool.
On Aug 6, 2010, at 9:38 PM, zach cruise wrote:
john, you're running up against a culture here, and trying to answer
the question: how to make a nerd cool? answer: it can't be done.
--
Sent via
On Fri, Aug 6, 2010 at 2:15 PM, Peter Bex peter@xs4all.nl wrote:
On Fri, Aug 06, 2010 at 02:09:43PM -0600, Scott Marlowe wrote:
I'm all in favor of a nice tutorial section in the docs. But I
certainly don't want pgsql docs to mimick the mysql docs method of
using a tutorial method for
On Fri, Aug 06, 2010 at 02:25:27PM -0600, Scott Marlowe wrote:
For an extra added bonus, show a click-path from the front page
mysql.com to the documentation. I gave up and just entered
mysql.com/documentation which kicked off the search engine and let me
click somewhere into the 5.1 docs.
On Fri, Aug 6, 2010 at 2:30 PM, Peter Bex peter@xs4all.nl wrote:
On Fri, Aug 06, 2010 at 02:25:27PM -0600, Scott Marlowe wrote:
For an extra added bonus, show a click-path from the front page
mysql.com to the documentation. I gave up and just entered
mysql.com/documentation which kicked
On 06/08/2010 21:15, Peter Bex wrote:
On Fri, Aug 06, 2010 at 02:09:43PM -0600, Scott Marlowe wrote:
I'm all in favor of a nice tutorial section in the docs. But I
certainly don't want pgsql docs to mimick the mysql docs method of
using a tutorial method for most of the beginner information.
On Friday 06 August 2010, Scott Marlowe elucidated thus:
Everyone of my trainees want such thing - for databases, for other
programming-languages etc. It's the worst thing you can give them.
The will copy, they will paste and they will understand nothing.
Learning is the way to
On Sat, Aug 7, 2010 at 12:29 AM, Joshua J. Kugler jos...@eeinternet.comwrote:
So, a getting started guide and/or cookbook would be great. Another
cool idea: a MySQL - PostgreSQL migration guide (I'm sure there's
already one out there) that would show To do *this* MySQL function in
Postgres has a very gentle learning curve. By which I mean that it
takes an extremely long time, perhaps a lifetime, to fully appreciate
it. On the other hand, it is definitely worth it. Each new discovery
is worth the effort and the wait.
But most people, including myself, don't even
On Fri, Aug 6, 2010 at 04:41, John Gage jsmg...@numericable.fr wrote:
[...]
So, perhaps what is needed in any sort of battle with MySQL is an
introductory documentation that gives specific examples of how to achieve
oh wow! worthwhile results quickly with Postgres.
Bruce Momjian's book is an
2010/8/6 Rikard Bosnjakovic rikard.bosnjako...@gmail.com:
On Fri, Aug 6, 2010 at 04:41, John Gage jsmg...@numericable.fr wrote:
[...]
So, perhaps what is needed in any sort of battle with MySQL is an
introductory documentation that gives specific examples of how to achieve
oh wow! worthwhile
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