[Phono-L] Cosmetic phono restoration tip
The following was initially intended to be a reply to the Bakelite polishing subject, but it's far-reaching enough that I changed the subject line. One of the best polishes I've discovered recently, that's almost miraculous in its effect (and yet uses no slimy additives), is Meguiar's Ultimate Compound. You can buy it at auto parts stores. It has all the cleaning-through-the-grime capability of conventional coarser rubbing and polishing compounds, but is much, much safer to use. It cleans and polishes amazingly effectively, and yet it doesn't cut into precious surfaces nearly as readily as the conventional compounds. It leaves a fine, smooth and highly polished surface with no residue. I think I even read on the bottle that it leaves surfaces paintable, so it must be free of residue-leaving chemicals. As with any polishing agent, the human factor is important; you still want to go slow and observantly over corners and other vulnerable areas but this stuff isn't nearly as harsh, and yet it's even more effective than other compounds. I've used it on wood finishes, painted surfaces, Bakelite and metals (as always, be careful with thinly plated parts), with stupendous results. If there are crevices, pores or other tiny surface irregularities, you'll need to either remove traces of dried compound with a soft wood toothpick (it dries to almost white), or you can follow up with an oil type furniture polish to darken these tiny compound remnants. With patience, it can do wonders with superficially alligatored wood finishes. Andy Baron On Dec 30, 2009, at 10:56 PM, Ron L'Herault wrote: I've read a bit about this on a radio site. Apparently the shiny surface of Bakelite is not very thick. Use a fine grain polish, something not too abrasive. I think a final coat of wax will help as well. Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org ] On Behalf Of zucc...@comcast.net Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 9:36 PM To: PhonoList Subject: [Phono-L] polishing Bakelite Dear Phonolisters : Maybe this isn't the place to ask but on the other hand. Does anyone know a good way to revive and polish Bakelite? Thanks, Bill Z ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] 1904 Edison Triumph with Automatic Reproducer
I stand corrected, the seller sent me an email telling me that at the end of the Model As Edison just threw any and all parts together to clear the stocks! I guess he did not know that the Model As went for some time after the machine he has. The Model A ended around 51000. Of special interest is that the machine in question appeared sometime back on eBay in the raised panel cabinet with a normal arm carrying a Model C Reproducer and no adjustment arm. So, this seller put an 'New Style' cabinet on the works and attached an earlier arm with clips. The machine then became rare. Or, maybe I just don't know anything... ;-) Al HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ALL ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Hello
Hello Bill and welcome to the best group on the subject. BTWwhat car? I missed what it was but am also afflicted along those lines. Bruce ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] The last word on Diamond Discs...I think
They will play on a regular 78 rpm modern turntable with 78 setting. They do not sound their best that way but with the light stylus weight I do not think wear or damage would be an issue. I welcome other comments, especially from those who have special modern equipment to play them with. Steve From: ge...@comcast.net To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 05:39:50 -0500 Subject: Re: [Phono-L] The last word on Diamond Discs...I think The machine is gone. If a table model is 70 lbs, the London must have weighed well over a 100 lbs. I could not even lift one side. It was way too heavy for me to realistically deal with...I'm glad I went back though and checked it out. It was a good adventure. As far as the table models...if they're 70 lbs, they're too much for me as well. My limit...is 20 lbs...just about what the records weigh. ;) The cabinet was black. No shine. It had spots of white mildew on the inside wood. Nothing we ever got (back in the 1950-60's) looked as bad as this. Those old machines had that nice old wood antiques smell...still do as a matter of fact...and with a little lemon oil shine up nicely. This was beyond lemon oil. I think even my Pop, the inveterate collector would have passed on it. He would have needed help moving it too. There was a small brass knob just sitting there...don't know where it came from; loose screws floating around; the horn looked kinda green and bent; the front grill had the 4 side pieces stuffed into the cabinet with none of the frilly middle stuff. The closer I looked, the worse IT looked. I know you guys like to preserve these things, and I agree with that wish. The weight, in my opinion, is what really made it unrealistic to even contemplate. It was a big white elephant. I'm happy to have the records though. I've seen thick DD records in the past, always with the edges all messed up. These have pretty sharp edges; only one had some small bubbling. And some day I'll get to hear them. Happy New Year to everyone. Stay healthy and safe. :) Ger - Original Message - From: DanKj To: Antique Phonograph List Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2009 1:11 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] The last word on Diamond Discs...I think Too bad you didn't get some pics of it - I wanted to see what made it seem such a mess. The solder is supposed to be there, as Ron L'H said, and if there was anything running into the horn it was just a volume control, which I remove anyway because it muffles the sound. The straps behind the slots sound correct, too. Except for the missing grill, how bad is the cabinet? You might be disappointed to learn that the few Edison table models are less common than floor models and they're HEAVY, awkward things. My Chalet weighs about 70 pounds, and my B-80 nearly as much. - Original Message - From: ger ge...@comcast.net The poor London model of Edison's Diamond Disc machine looks like it had been tortured. The vertical section was there afterall, but a cable, wood block and some other things (part going into the horn) were missing. Someone had SOLDERED the horn on th Needless to say, the machine still sits with the seller...who is now a bit wiser, since I shared the photo and what I knew with her. She seemed not at all disappointed and actually fascinated to learn something about the poor mess. As for its WEIGHT. I've got an AH-HAH! I took the flashlight and checked out the left side where the 24 slots for records was. I could see that 2, that's TWO, thick metal weights were in place behind the slots. They went across the back, one high, one low. \ I will, however, now keep an eye out for an Edison (table model) which could play my records ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] 1904 Edison Triumph with Automatic Reproducer
Dear Al, The triumph cost $50 when $5 a day for wages was a good salary. Who would pay for and why would Edison sell in 1904 a machine with an outdated, poorly sounding reproducer. Also why would he have an automatic from 1898 and a carriage from early 1902 (or earlier) on a machine from after 1904? Equally curious is why more of these are not existing. Edison obviously was not organized and you see many examples of later machines and reproducers with earlier parts, but Edison's goal was to sell records and the early thin weight automatic sounds so bad on the molded records that no one would enjoy gold molded records with it. Edison was so interested in selling records that in 1919 he offered kits to upgrade the Standard, Home, and Triump to the diamond B reproducer. I have seen a home that was modified with one of the kits, the 2/4 decal was removed. Around 1900 Edison almost doubled the weight of the automatic. It is true that Edison never wasted and used up all the obsolete parts, but he did this in an efficient manner. For example in 1901 he introduced the early B reproducer and in 1902 he introduced the Model C reproducer. As you suggested rather than waste he continued to offer the Model B on the Gem sans arm and the later (serial number 50,000 to 90,000) Model B reproducer is found without the word reproducer as he used the early B tops made for the arm. I also found it extremely interesting that Mr. Triumph, Terry Baer essentially said the same thing as you did. I purchased a suitcase home that had the early two clip carriage. This carriage had the adjuster for the arm machined off and it had the centering pin and the Speaker Clamp Screw part #2531 installed. It was done so well if I had not noted the four screw holes for the clips I would not have noticed a modification was done. So if Edison found the 1902 (or earlier) carriage after June 1904 he could have updated the carriage and installed a model C so he could sell records to the owner. I believe had the seller had known there were three types of automatic made, the length of production of the A, and that you can approximate the date of phonographs and reproducers by the serial number he could have produced a more convincing machine. Best regards, Steve I stand corrected, the seller sent me an email telling me that at the end of the Model As Edison just threw any and all parts together to clear the stocks! I guess he did not know that the Model As went for some time after the machine he has. The Model A ended around 51000. Of special interest is that the machine in question appeared sometime back on eBay in the raised panel cabinet with a normal arm carrying a Model C Reproducer and no adjustment arm. So, this seller put an 'New Style' cabinet on the works and attached an earlier arm with clips. The machine then became rare. Or, maybe I just don't know anything... ;-) Al HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ALL ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] The last word on Diamond Discs...I think
Sounds like you made the right decision to abandon this one. Andy On Dec 31, 2009, at 3:39 AM, ger wrote: The machine is gone. If a table model is 70 lbs, the London must have weighed well over a 100 lbs. I could not even lift one side. It was way too heavy for me to realistically deal with...I'm glad I went back though and checked it out. It was a good adventure. As far as the table models...if they're 70 lbs, they're too much for me as well. My limit...is 20 lbs...just about what the records weigh. ;) The cabinet was black. No shine. It had spots of white mildew on the inside wood. Nothing we ever got (back in the 1950-60's) looked as bad as this. Those old machines had that nice old wood antiques smell...still do as a matter of fact...and with a little lemon oil shine up nicely. This was beyond lemon oil. I think even my Pop, the inveterate collector would have passed on it. He would have needed help moving it too. There was a small brass knob just sitting there...don't know where it came from; loose screws floating around; the horn looked kinda green and bent; the front grill had the 4 side pieces stuffed into the cabinet with none of the frilly middle stuff. The closer I looked, the worse IT looked. I know you guys like to preserve these things, and I agree with that wish. The weight, in my opinion, is what really made it unrealistic to even contemplate. It was a big white elephant. I'm happy to have the records though. I've seen thick DD records in the past, always with the edges all messed up. These have pretty sharp edges; only one had some small bubbling. And some day I'll get to hear them. Happy New Year to everyone. Stay healthy and safe. :) Ger - Original Message - From: DanKj To: Antique Phonograph List Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2009 1:11 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] The last word on Diamond Discs...I think Too bad you didn't get some pics of it - I wanted to see what made it seem such a mess. The solder is supposed to be there, as Ron L'H said, and if there was anything running into the horn it was just a volume control, which I remove anyway because it muffles the sound. The straps behind the slots sound correct, too. Except for the missing grill, how bad is the cabinet? You might be disappointed to learn that the few Edison table models are less common than floor models and they're HEAVY, awkward things. My Chalet weighs about 70 pounds, and my B-80 nearly as much. - Original Message - From: ger ge...@comcast.net The poor London model of Edison's Diamond Disc machine looks like it had been tortured. The vertical section was there afterall, but a cable, wood block and some other things (part going into the horn) were missing. Someone had SOLDERED the horn on th Needless to say, the machine still sits with the seller...who is now a bit wiser, since I shared the photo and what I knew with her. She seemed not at all disappointed and actually fascinated to learn something about the poor mess. As for its WEIGHT. I've got an AH-HAH! I took the flashlight and checked out the left side where the 24 slots for records was. I could see that 2, that's TWO, thick metal weights were in place behind the slots. They went across the back, one high, one low. \ I will, however, now keep an eye out for an Edison (table model) which could play my records ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Shipping phonographs
I highly recommend if anyone purchases a phono that the seller says will be sent UPS, ask them to send it Fed Ex ground. I have had 2 triumphs and an order of auto parts damaged by UPS. UPS is wonderful for small, light parts, but larger ones seem to get dropper or crushed by their automatic alligator mouth sorting system. Save a phono, use Fed Ex. Also Fed Ex is much easier to collect from if there is an accident. Steve ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] 1904 Edison Triumph with Automatic Reproducer
Steve, I am not sure that you picked up on Al's sarcasm about the seller's reply. Jim Nichol On Jan 1, 2010, at 3:22 PM, Steven Medved wrote: Dear Al, The triumph cost $50 when $5 a day for wages was a good salary. Who would pay for and why would Edison sell in 1904 a machine with an outdated, poorly sounding reproducer. Also why would he have an automatic from 1898 and a carriage from early 1902 (or earlier) on a machine from after 1904? Equally curious is why more of these are not existing. Edison obviously was not organized and you see many examples of later machines and reproducers with earlier parts, but Edison's goal was to sell records and the early thin weight automatic sounds so bad on the molded records that no one would enjoy gold molded records with it. Edison was so interested in selling records that in 1919 he offered kits to upgrade the Standard, Home, and Triump to the diamond B reproducer. I have seen a home that was modified with one of the kits, the 2/4 decal was removed. Around 1900 Edison almost doubled the weight of the automatic. It is true that Edison never wasted and used up all the obsolete parts, but he did this in an efficient manner. For example in 1901 he introduced the early B reproducer and in 1902 he introduced the Model C reproducer. As you suggested rather than waste he continued to offer the Model B on the Gem sans arm and the later (serial number 50,000 to 90,000) Model B reproducer is found without the word reproducer as he used the early B tops made for the arm. I also found it extremely interesting that Mr. Triumph, Terry Baer essentially said the same thing as you did. I purchased a suitcase home that had the early two clip carriage. This carriage had the adjuster for the arm machined off and it had the centering pin and the Speaker Clamp Screw part #2531 installed. It was done so well if I had not noted the four screw holes for the clips I would not have noticed a modification was done. So if Edison found the 1902 (or earlier) carriage after June 1904 he could have updated the carriage and installed a model C so he could sell records to the owner. I believe had the seller had known there were three types of automatic made, the length of production of the A, and that you can approximate the date of phonographs and reproducers by the serial number he could have produced a more convincing machine. Best regards, Steve I stand corrected, the seller sent me an email telling me that at the end of the Model As Edison just threw any and all parts together to clear the stocks! I guess he did not know that the Model As went for some time after the machine he has. The Model A ended around 51000. Of special interest is that the machine in question appeared sometime back on eBay in the raised panel cabinet with a normal arm carrying a Model C Reproducer and no adjustment arm. So, this seller put an 'New Style' cabinet on the works and attached an earlier arm with clips. The machine then became rare. Or, maybe I just don't know anything... ;-) Al HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ALL ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Shipping phonographs
UPS should be last resort. I was told FED EX still handles most packages by hand. I took that to mean that they don't drop from conveyor belt to conveyor belt. The post office does a great job and is much faster than both of the private carriers. The Snap On tool guy gets his deliveries at my shop. The substitute UPS driver sits his packages down and I walk over and kicked the boxes. I said to the driver you obviously haven't graduated from UPS University! Fragile to UPS is Italian for kick. I would add you waste ink to write fragile. UPS will tell you it has to survive a drop from something like six feet or tough toe-nails. Btw 6 feet!!! Why not 20. I do not believe UPS recognizes the terms do not stack or this side up. Mike Oldcranky On Fri, Jan 1, 2010 at 1:34 PM, Steven Medved steve_nor...@msn.com wrote: I highly recommend if anyone purchases a phono that the seller says will be sent UPS, ask them to send it Fed Ex ground. I have had 2 triumphs and an order of auto parts damaged by UPS. UPS is wonderful for small, light parts, but larger ones seem to get dropper or crushed by their automatic alligator mouth sorting system. Save a phono, use Fed Ex. Also Fed Ex is much easier to collect from if there is an accident. Steve ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Shipping phonographs
I agree with this too. Although I'm not sure that it's easier to collect from FedEx since I've never had any damage from them to find out. FedEx also has much shorter lines to stand in for some strange reason. Greg Farmer - Original Message - From: Steven Medved steve_nor...@msn.com To: phonolist phonol...@yahoogroups.com; Phono-l phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 3:35 PM Subject: [Phono-L] Shipping phonographs I highly recommend if anyone purchases a phono that the seller says will be sent UPS, ask them to send it Fed Ex ground. I have had 2 triumphs and an order of auto parts damaged by UPS. UPS is wonderful for small, light parts, but larger ones seem to get dropper or crushed by their automatic alligator mouth sorting system. Save a phono, use Fed Ex. Also Fed Ex is much easier to collect from if there is an accident. Steve ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org --- Get FREE High Speed Internet from USFamily.Net! -- http://www.usfamily.net/mkt-freepromo.html --- ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] For sale
Hi All, I posted this before Christmas but not sure if it got through. So here it is again. If interested I am open to reasonable offers. Please follow the link for pictures and email directly with questions. http://home.comcast.net/~vtm12/sale/sale.html Below is a very brief description since everyone here knows what these items are. If you need additional details or have questions please email me. 1. Original Victor His Master's Voice dealer print. $2100 2. Mira music box. Double-comb 9 $2200 3. Edison Portrait. $600 4. Columbia AJ, all original no repro parts. Super condition with the exception of the turntable shaft is slightly bent so turntable wobbles, doesn't affect playing of machine, $1150 5. Anthony Visco Nipper, limited edition with original box. $90 All items do not include shipping. Most of the items above I would simply take to a UPS store and the buyer can pay them directly for shipping via a credit card. Also pickup is available in Collegeville, PA. Thanks, Vince ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Shipping phonographs
Steve- FedEx does not always use kid gloves when handling packages. During this past year I shipped a banner front Edison Home in 3 boxes with each carefully packed to withstand any rough handling. One box was for the case, one for the mechanism and one for the horn. The mechanism was badly damaged when the tines of a fork lift went completely through the center of its box. The motor frame was broken into pieces and the bolts holding the motor frame to the bedplate were sheared off. It was the last time I shipped a machine via FedEx! Bill On Jan 1, 2010, at 3:34 PM, Steven Medved wrote: I highly recommend if anyone purchases a phono that the seller says will be sent UPS, ask them to send it Fed Ex ground. I have had 2 triumphs and an order of auto parts damaged by UPS. UPS is wonderful for small, light parts, but larger ones seem to get dropper or crushed by their automatic alligator mouth sorting system. Save a phono, use Fed Ex. Also Fed Ex is much easier to collect from if there is an accident. Steve ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Shipping phonographs
Hi All, I hate to tell all of you this but there is no magic bullet. I have been in the art business for 35 years and have used FedX , UPS and others and the fact is that you gotta build a box that will take just about any form of bad treatment. One of my nephews grew up working 1st for FedX -4 years and UPS-6 years and now works for a speciality shipper and freight company that deals in special shipment of special goods. The stories he told of both companies made my head hurt and no matter what shipper I use I build a box that will make it almost anywhere and my last item still did not get there. They drive a fork lift arm right through it and I used 3/4 plywood for sides. 3 months later the customer got a ck for $15000.00. But they did EVERYTHING they could to keep from paying the claim. Photos showing how the crate was put together shamed them and a bit of advice from my nephew to stay on them at least twice a week really worked. For our phono's small units well packed under normal conditions should get there. Larger units, either know someone who can get it back to you- or pay the very high price of craters and freighters. On more expensive machines it is OK but on standard ones the freight charge can make it really to expensive to purchase a machine like a c-250. I am working through that on a machine now. But bottom line on a common carrier youse pays your money and takes your chances Happy New Year Abe On Fri, Jan 1, 2010 at 8:31 PM, Bill Boruff boru...@flash.net wrote: Steve- FedEx does not always use kid gloves when handling packages. During this past year I shipped a banner front Edison Home in 3 boxes with each carefully packed to withstand any rough handling. One box was for the case, one for the mechanism and one for the horn. The mechanism was badly damaged when the tines of a fork lift went completely through the center of its box. The motor frame was broken into pieces and the bolts holding the motor frame to the bedplate were sheared off. It was the last time I shipped a machine via FedEx! Bill On Jan 1, 2010, at 3:34 PM, Steven Medved wrote: I highly recommend if anyone purchases a phono that the seller says will be sent UPS, ask them to send it Fed Ex ground. I have had 2 triumphs and an order of auto parts damaged by UPS. UPS is wonderful for small, light parts, but larger ones seem to get dropper or crushed by their automatic alligator mouth sorting system. Save a phono, use Fed Ex. Also Fed Ex is much easier to collect from if there is an accident. Steve ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
