Re: [Phono-L] RARE Model Triumph - and reproducers
A Model G triumph with a mahogany case and horn sold for $8777 on eBay and it looked nice. The wooden horn came out around August 1910 and was available as an option from then on. According to the Frow book the Model F and G triumph came with the wooden horn but since Edison is the king of variety I am certain there were exceptions. I am not certain how accurate the Phonograph section of the Frow book is but the reproducer and recorder section if full of errors and omissions, mostly omission in the recorder section. Because of the Frow book the 2 minute sapphire Model B is the most misunderstood reproducer Edison made. He got the Model N reproducer backwards and does not mention the trowel N reproducer not to be confused with the N-56. When a reproducer was made and when it was put on a phonograph and when the phonograph was stamped with a serial number were not all the same in all cases. At least one suitcase standard in the 42,000 range was stamped with a serial number after Feburary 1902 and sent to Canada to be sold with an automatic reproducer made in the middle of 1901. This suitcase model does not have the serial numer raised lug and the serial number is stamped on the nickel ID plate. An one suticase standard in the 26000 range has he later brass ID plate. You see Model B homes with decals and the 2/4 minute upgrades, you see standard D's with the pin striping and an ID plate that does not say combination, you see Model D standards with the combination ID plate, the home C is found with pinstriping and decals. You see the maroon gem with the GEM decal on the machine. You see triumphs with the raised panel not paralles to the base. You see Edison phonographs with incorrect serial numbers. Home E 994618 is an example of this the home E is found in the 400,000 range and not that many homes were made. Also at the end of production runs earlier parts show up which is why you find the earlier B weights later on. The drilled B weight is found in both stamped and unstamped versions. The Frow book says it is not clear why the B was made and there was never an adjusting arm. The B was armed up until at least 30,000 and from 40,000 to 110,000 the word reproducer is not on the B as the top that was made for the arm was used as the reproducer stamped top came out around 110,000. The armed B is seldom found after 40,000 but they were made for use on the Edison Bell Duplex and the concert phonograph. If the B was never armed it would not have been produced before 110,000. It is easy to see why Frow did not understand the B as in England it mainly appeared on the Gem, but look at the Standard E which was only available here and he got that one correct. From 1 to around 17,000 the B has the arm and no notch. There are two types of tops found. Up until the mid 6500 range the B top has thin plating with machine marks visible. From 17,000 to 30,000 the B retained its arm with the notch added. From 40,000 to 110,000 the B top does not have the word reproducer and two different tops are found with the width of the flat around the sound tube and the outside dome varies and the weight is stamped B. Around 110,000 the weight was drilled and tapped to accomodate an extra lead weight. From around 150,000 on the B was given a 2.2 ounce lead or lead alloy weight. The first B has a 1.2 ounce weight and the C weight varies from 1.2 to 1.3 ounces. It took the 2.2 ounce weight to have the volume the hanging weight does. The automatic is another reproducer that is greatly left out. The period of time from 1900 to 1902 is largely omitted as is the period after the fire. The recorder section is even worse. 2 and 4 minute recorders were made after the fire as was the CHK. The diamond B was made into 1926 at least and the last diamond C used the same casting as the Diamond D. In the summer of 1901 the early B replaced the automatic and up to serial number 30,000 at least it was used on all Edison machines. The B got its notch for the centering pin in the 17,000 range. The B C and D all had blank weights at first. The C joined in around 25,000, the D around 30,000. The arm appeared on the C sporadically through 1906 even though the new top stamped with reproducer appeared by 110,000. The round weight N appeared first joining the O around 22,000. The hanging weight is more efficient than the round weight. The ICS amberola 30 that came with a four minute recorder and the ICS H. Small reproducer tops went from brass to pot metal to brass. Recorders went from brass to pot metal to brass to pot metal to brass. The B to K shared serial numbers so just over 2.12 million were made. The dome top recorder shared serial numbers so just over 612,000 were made. Up to at least 10,000 the recorder diaphragm was glass, the first recorder stylus holder was aluminum with tiny arms, it went to small wings, then to the common shape. The
Re: [Phono-L] RARE Model Triumph - and reproducers
Steve, When will you write a book? I'd buy one. Dave --- On Mon, 11/7/11, Steven Medved steve_nor...@msn.com wrote: From: Steven Medved steve_nor...@msn.com Subject: Re: [Phono-L] RARE Model Triumph - and reproducers To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Monday, November 7, 2011, 10:31 AM A Model G triumph with a mahogany case and horn sold for $8777 on eBay and it looked nice. The wooden horn came out around August 1910 and was available as an option from then on. According to the Frow book the Model F and G triumph came with the wooden horn but since Edison is the king of variety I am certain there were exceptions. I am not certain how accurate the Phonograph section of the Frow book is but the reproducer and recorder section if full of errors and omissions, mostly omission in the recorder section. Because of the Frow book the 2 minute sapphire Model B is the most misunderstood reproducer Edison made. He got the Model N reproducer backwards and does not mention the trowel N reproducer not to be confused with the N-56. When a reproducer was made and when it was put on a phonograph and when the phonograph was stamped with a serial number were not all the same in all cases. At least one suitcase standard in the 42,000 range was stamped with a serial number after Feburary 1902 and sent to Canada to be sold with an automatic reproducer made in the middle of 1901. This suitcase model does not have the serial numer raised lug and the serial number is stamped on the nickel ID plate. An one suticase standard in the 26000 range has he later brass ID plate. You see Model B homes with decals and the 2/4 minute upgrades, you see standard D's with the pin striping and an ID plate that does not say combination, you see Model D standards with the combination ID plate, the home C is found with pinstriping and decals. You see the maroon gem with the GEM decal on the machine. You see triumphs with the raised panel not paralles to the base. You see Edison phonographs with incorrect serial numbers. Home E 994618 is an example of this the home E is found in the 400,000 range and not that many homes were made. Also at the end of production runs earlier parts show up which is why you find the earlier B weights later on. The drilled B weight is found in both stamped and unstamped versions. The Frow book says it is not clear why the B was made and there was never an adjusting arm. The B was armed up until at least 30,000 and from 40,000 to 110,000 the word reproducer is not on the B as the top that was made for the arm was used as the reproducer stamped top came out around 110,000. The armed B is seldom found after 40,000 but they were made for use on the Edison Bell Duplex and the concert phonograph. If the B was never armed it would not have been produced before 110,000. It is easy to see why Frow did not understand the B as in England it mainly appeared on the Gem, but look at the Standard E which was only available here and he got that one correct. From 1 to around 17,000 the B has the arm and no notch. There are two types of tops found. Up until the mid 6500 range the B top has thin plating with machine marks visible. From 17,000 to 30,000 the B retained its arm with the notch added. From 40,000 to 110,000 the B top does not have the word reproducer and two different tops are found with the width of the flat around the sound tube and the outside dome varies and the weight is stamped B. Around 110,000 the weight was drilled and tapped to accomodate an extra lead weight. From around 150,000 on the B was given a 2.2 ounce lead or lead alloy weight. The first B has a 1.2 ounce weight and the C weight varies from 1.2 to 1.3 ounces. It took the 2.2 ounce weight to have the volume the hanging weight does. The automatic is another reproducer that is greatly left out. The period of time from 1900 to 1902 is largely omitted as is the period after the fire. The recorder section is even worse. 2 and 4 minute recorders were made after the fire as was the CHK. The diamond B was made into 1926 at least and the last diamond C used the same casting as the Diamond D. In the summer of 1901 the early B replaced the automatic and up to serial number 30,000 at least it was used on all Edison machines. The B got its notch for the centering pin in the 17,000 range. The B C and D all had blank weights at first. The C joined in around 25,000, the D around 30,000. The arm appeared on the C sporadically through 1906 even though the new top stamped with reproducer appeared by 110,000. The round weight N appeared first joining the O around 22,000. The hanging weight is more efficient than the round weight. The ICS amberola 30 that came with a four minute recorder and the ICS H. Small reproducer tops went from brass to pot metal to brass. Recorders went from brass to pot metal to brass to pot metal to brass. The B to K shared serial
Re: [Phono-L] RARE Model Triumph - and reproducers
Thank You very much for taking the time to write all this information I have printed it out and stuck it with my Frow book .Earl Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: David Dazer dda...@sbcglobal.net Sender: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 09:37:55 To: Antique Phonograph Listphono-l@oldcrank.org Reply-To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] RARE Model Triumph - and reproducers Steve, When will you write a book? I'd buy one. Dave --- On Mon, 11/7/11, Steven Medved steve_nor...@msn.com wrote: From: Steven Medved steve_nor...@msn.com Subject: Re: [Phono-L] RARE Model Triumph - and reproducers To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Monday, November 7, 2011, 10:31 AM A Model G triumph with a mahogany case and horn sold for $8777 on eBay and it looked nice. The wooden horn came out around August 1910 and was available as an option from then on. According to the Frow book the Model F and G triumph came with the wooden horn but since Edison is the king of variety I am certain there were exceptions. I am not certain how accurate the Phonograph section of the Frow book is but the reproducer and recorder section if full of errors and omissions, mostly omission in the recorder section. Because of the Frow book the 2 minute sapphire Model B is the most misunderstood reproducer Edison made. He got the Model N reproducer backwards and does not mention the trowel N reproducer not to be confused with the N-56. When a reproducer was made and when it was put on a phonograph and when the phonograph was stamped with a serial number were not all the same in all cases. At least one suitcase standard in the 42,000 range was stamped with a serial number after Feburary 1902 and sent to Canada to be sold with an automatic reproducer made in the middle of 1901. This suitcase model does not have the serial numer raised lug and the serial number is stamped on the nickel ID plate. An one suticase standard in the 26000 range has he later brass ID plate. You see Model B homes with decals and the 2/4 minute upgrades, you see standard D's with the pin striping and an ID plate that does not say combination, you see Model D standards with the combination ID plate, the home C is found with pinstriping and decals. You see the maroon gem with the GEM decal on the machine. You see triumphs with the raised panel not paralles to the base. You see Edison phonographs with incorrect serial numbers. Home E 994618 is an example of this the home E is found in the 400,000 range and not that many homes were made. Also at the end of production runs earlier parts show up which is why you find the earlier B weights later on. The drilled B weight is found in both stamped and unstamped versions. The Frow book says it is not clear why the B was made and there was never an adjusting arm. The B was armed up until at least 30,000 and from 40,000 to 110,000 the word reproducer is not on the B as the top that was made for the arm was used as the reproducer stamped top came out around 110,000. The armed B is seldom found after 40,000 but they were made for use on the Edison Bell Duplex and the concert phonograph. If the B was never armed it would not have been produced before 110,000. It is easy to see why Frow did not understand the B as in England it mainly appeared on the Gem, but look at the Standard E which was only available here and he got that one correct. From 1 to around 17,000 the B has the arm and no notch. There are two types of tops found. Up until the mid 6500 range the B top has thin plating with machine marks visible. From 17,000 to 30,000 the B retained its arm with the notch added. From 40,000 to 110,000 the B top does not have the word reproducer and two different tops are found with the width of the flat around the sound tube and the outside dome varies and the weight is stamped B. Around 110,000 the weight was drilled and tapped to accomodate an extra lead weight. From around 150,000 on the B was given a 2.2 ounce lead or lead alloy weight. The first B has a 1.2 ounce weight and the C weight varies from 1.2 to 1.3 ounces. It took the 2.2 ounce weight to have the volume the hanging weight does. The automatic is another reproducer that is greatly left out. The period of time from 1900 to 1902 is largely omitted as is the period after the fire. The recorder section is even worse. 2 and 4 minute recorders were made after the fire as was the CHK. The diamond B was made into 1926 at least and the last diamond C used the same casting as the Diamond D. In the summer of 1901 the early B replaced the automatic and up to serial number 30,000 at least it was used on all Edison machines. The B got its notch for the centering pin in the 17,000 range. The B C and D all had blank weights at first. The C joined in around 25,000, the D around 30,000. The arm appeared
Re: [Phono-L] RARE Model Triumph - and reproducers
I second that motion. On 11/7/2011 12:37 PM, David Dazer wrote: Steve, When will you write a book? I'd buy one. Dave --- On Mon, 11/7/11, Steven Medvedsteve_nor...@msn.com wrote: From: Steven Medvedsteve_nor...@msn.com Subject: Re: [Phono-L] RARE Model Triumph - and reproducers To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Monday, November 7, 2011, 10:31 AM A Model G triumph with a mahogany case and horn sold for $8777 on eBay and it looked nice. The wooden horn came out around August 1910 and was available as an option from then on. According to the Frow book the Model F and G triumph came with the wooden horn but since Edison is the king of variety I am certain there were exceptions. I am not certain how accurate the Phonograph section of the Frow book is but the reproducer and recorder section if full of errors and omissions, mostly omission in the recorder section. Because of the Frow book the 2 minute sapphire Model B is the most misunderstood reproducer Edison made. He got the Model N reproducer backwards and does not mention the trowel N reproducer not to be confused with the N-56. When a reproducer was made and when it was put on a phonograph and when the phonograph was stamped with a serial number were not all the same in all cases. At least one suitcase standard in the 42,000 range was stamped with a serial number after Feburary 1902 and sent to Canada to be sold with an automatic reproducer made in the middle of 1901. This suitcase model does not have the serial numer raised lug and the serial number is stamped on the nickel ID plate. An one suticase standard in the 26000 range has he later brass ID plate. You see Model B homes with decals and the 2/4 minute upgrades, you see standard D's with the pin striping and an ID plate that does not say combination, you see Model D standards with the combination ID plate, the home C is found with pinstriping and decals. You see the maroon gem with the GEM decal on the machine. You see triumphs with the raised panel not paralles to the base. You see Edison phonographs with incorrect serial numbers. Home E 994618 is an example of this the home E is found in the 400,000 range and not that many homes were made. Also at the end of production runs earlier parts show up which is why you find the earlier B weights later on. The drilled B weight is found in both stamped and unstamped versions. The Frow book says it is not clear why the B was made and there was never an adjusting arm. The B was armed up until at least 30,000 and from 40,000 to 110,000 the word reproducer is not on the B as the top that was made for the arm was used as the reproducer stamped top came out around 110,000. The armed B is seldom found after 40,000 but they were made for use on the Edison Bell Duplex and the concert phonograph. If the B was never armed it would not have been produced before 110,000. It is easy to see why Frow did not understand the B as in England it mainly appeared on the Gem, but look at the Standard E which was only available here and he got that one correct. From 1 to around 17,000 the B has the arm and no notch. There are two types of tops found. Up until the mid 6500 range the B top has thin plating with machine marks visible. From 17,000 to 30,000 the B retained its arm with the notch added. From 40,000 to 110,000 the B top does not have the word reproducer and two different tops are found with the width of the flat around the sound tube and the outside dome varies and the weight is stamped B. Around 110,000 the weight was drilled and tapped to accomodate an extra lead weight. From around 150,000 on the B was given a 2.2 ounce lead or lead alloy weight. The first B has a 1.2 ounce weight and the C weight varies from 1.2 to 1.3 ounces. It took the 2.2 ounce weight to have the volume the hanging weight does. The automatic is another reproducer that is greatly left out. The period of time from 1900 to 1902 is largely omitted as is the period after the fire. The recorder section is even worse. 2 and 4 minute recorders were made after the fire as was the CHK. The diamond B was made into 1926 at least and the last diamond C used the same casting as the Diamond D. In the summer of 1901 the early B replaced the automatic and up to serial number 30,000 at least it was used on all Edison machines. The B got its notch for the centering pin in the 17,000 range. The B C and D all had blank weights at first. The C joined in around 25,000, the D around 30,000. The arm appeared on the C sporadically through 1906 even though the new top stamped with reproducer appeared by 110,000. The round weight N appeared first joining the O around 22,000. The hanging weight is more efficient than the round weight. The ICS amberola 30 that came with a four minute recorder and the ICS H. Small reproducer tops went from brass to pot metal to brass. Recorders went from brass to pot metal
Re: [Phono-L] RARE Model Triumph - and reproducers
I would buy one too! I think a book is a great idea, Steve! Melissa --- On Mon, 11/7/11, Thatcher Graham thatc...@mediaguide.com wrote: From: Thatcher Graham thatc...@mediaguide.com Subject: Re: [Phono-L] RARE Model Triumph - and reproducers To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Monday, November 7, 2011, 1:23 PM I second that motion. On 11/7/2011 12:37 PM, David Dazer wrote: Steve, When will you write a book? I'd buy one. Dave --- On Mon, 11/7/11, Steven Medvedsteve_nor...@msn.com wrote: From: Steven Medvedsteve_nor...@msn.com Subject: Re: [Phono-L] RARE Model Triumph - and reproducers To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Monday, November 7, 2011, 10:31 AM A Model G triumph with a mahogany case and horn sold for $8777 on eBay and it looked nice. The wooden horn came out around August 1910 and was available as an option from then on. According to the Frow book the Model F and G triumph came with the wooden horn but since Edison is the king of variety I am certain there were exceptions. I am not certain how accurate the Phonograph section of the Frow book is but the reproducer and recorder section if full of errors and omissions, mostly omission in the recorder section. Because of the Frow book the 2 minute sapphire Model B is the most misunderstood reproducer Edison made. He got the Model N reproducer backwards and does not mention the trowel N reproducer not to be confused with the N-56. When a reproducer was made and when it was put on a phonograph and when the phonograph was stamped with a serial number were not all the same in all cases. At least one suitcase standard in the 42,000 range was stamped with a serial number after Feburary 1902 and sent to Canada to be sold with an automatic reproducer made in the middle of 1901. This suitcase model does not have the serial numer raised lug and the serial number is stamped on the nickel ID plate. An one suticase standard in the 26000 range has he later brass ID plate. You see Model B homes with decals and the 2/4 minute upgrades, you see standard D's with the pin striping and an ID plate that does not say combination, you see Model D standards with the combination ID plate, the home C is found with pinstriping and decals. You see the maroon gem with the GEM decal on the machine. You see triumphs with the raised panel not paralles to the base. You see Edison phonographs with incorrect serial numbers. Home E 994618 is an example of this the home E is found in the 400,000 range and not that many homes were made. Also at the end of production runs earlier parts show up which is why you find the earlier B weights later on. The drilled B weight is found in both stamped and unstamped versions. The Frow book says it is not clear why the B was made and there was never an adjusting arm. The B was armed up until at least 30,000 and from 40,000 to 110,000 the word reproducer is not on the B as the top that was made for the arm was used as the reproducer stamped top came out around 110,000. The armed B is seldom found after 40,000 but they were made for use on the Edison Bell Duplex and the concert phonograph. If the B was never armed it would not have been produced before 110,000. It is easy to see why Frow did not understand the B as in England it mainly appeared on the Gem, but look at the Standard E which was only available here and he got that one correct. From 1 to around 17,000 the B has the arm and no notch. There are two types of tops found. Up until the mid 6500 range the B top has thin plating with machine marks visible. From 17,000 to 30,000 the B retained its arm with the notch added. From 40,000 to 110,000 the B top does not have the word reproducer and two different tops are found with the width of the flat around the sound tube and the outside dome varies and the weight is stamped B. Around 110,000 the weight was drilled and tapped to accomodate an extra lead weight. From around 150,000 on the B was given a 2.2 ounce lead or lead alloy weight. The first B has a 1.2 ounce weight and the C weight varies from 1.2 to 1.3 ounces. It took the 2.2 ounce weight to have the volume the hanging weight does. The automatic is another reproducer that is greatly left out. The period of time from 1900 to 1902 is largely omitted as is the period after the fire. The recorder section is even worse. 2 and 4 minute recorders were made after the fire as was the CHK. The diamond B was made into 1926 at least and the last diamond C used the same casting as the Diamond D. In the summer of 1901 the early B replaced the automatic and up to serial number 30,000 at least it was used on all Edison machines. The B got its notch for the centering pin in the 17,000 range. The B C and D all had blank weights at first. The C joined in around 25,000, the D around 30,000. The arm appeared on the C sporadically through
Re: [Phono-L] RARE Model Triumph - and reproducers
I'd love to know also and will sure want a copy. From: Thatcher Graham thatc...@mediaguide.com To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Monday, November 7, 2011 1:23 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] RARE Model Triumph - and reproducers I second that motion. On 11/7/2011 12:37 PM, David Dazer wrote: Steve, When will you write a book? I'd buy one. Dave --- On Mon, 11/7/11, Steven Medvedsteve_nor...@msn.com wrote: From: Steven Medvedsteve_nor...@msn.com Subject: Re: [Phono-L] RARE Model Triumph - and reproducers To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Monday, November 7, 2011, 10:31 AM A Model G triumph with a mahogany case and horn sold for $8777 on eBay and it looked nice. The wooden horn came out around August 1910 and was available as an option from then on. According to the Frow book the Model F and G triumph came with the wooden horn but since Edison is the king of variety I am certain there were exceptions. I am not certain how accurate the Phonograph section of the Frow book is but the reproducer and recorder section if full of errors and omissions, mostly omission in the recorder section. Because of the Frow book the 2 minute sapphire Model B is the most misunderstood reproducer Edison made. He got the Model N reproducer backwards and does not mention the trowel N reproducer not to be confused with the N-56. When a reproducer was made and when it was put on a phonograph and when the phonograph was stamped with a serial number were not all the same in all cases. At least one suitcase standard in the 42,000 range was stamped with a serial number after Feburary 1902 and sent to Canada to be sold with an automatic reproducer made in the middle of 1901. This suitcase model does not have the serial numer raised lug and the serial number is stamped on the nickel ID plate. An one suticase standard in the 26000 range has he later brass ID plate. You see Model B homes with decals and the 2/4 minute upgrades, you see standard D's with the pin striping and an ID plate that does not say combination, you see Model D standards with the combination ID plate, the home C is found with pinstriping and decals. You see the maroon gem with the GEM decal on the machine. You see triumphs with the raised panel not paralles to the base. You see Edison phonographs with incorrect serial numbers. Home E 994618 is an example of this the home E is found in the 400,000 range and not that many homes were made. Also at the end of production runs earlier parts show up which is why you find the earlier B weights later on. The drilled B weight is found in both stamped and unstamped versions. The Frow book says it is not clear why the B was made and there was never an adjusting arm. The B was armed up until at least 30,000 and from 40,000 to 110,000 the word reproducer is not on the B as the top that was made for the arm was used as the reproducer stamped top came out around 110,000. The armed B is seldom found after 40,000 but they were made for use on the Edison Bell Duplex and the concert phonograph. If the B was never armed it would not have been produced before 110,000. It is easy to see why Frow did not understand the B as in England it mainly appeared on the Gem, but look at the Standard E which was only available here and he got that one correct. From 1 to around 17,000 the B has the arm and no notch. There are two types of tops found. Up until the mid 6500 range the B top has thin plating with machine marks visible. From 17,000 to 30,000 the B retained its arm with the notch added. From 40,000 to 110,000 the B top does not have the word reproducer and two different tops are found with the width of the flat around the sound tube and the outside dome varies and the weight is stamped B. Around 110,000 the weight was drilled and tapped to accomodate an extra lead weight. From around 150,000 on the B was given a 2.2 ounce lead or lead alloy weight. The first B has a 1.2 ounce weight and the C weight varies from 1.2 to 1.3 ounces. It took the 2.2 ounce weight to have the volume the hanging weight does. The automatic is another reproducer that is greatly left out. The period of time from 1900 to 1902 is largely omitted as is the period after the fire. The recorder section is even worse. 2 and 4 minute recorders were made after the fire as was the CHK. The diamond B was made into 1926 at least and the last diamond C used the same casting as the Diamond D. In the summer of 1901 the early B replaced the automatic and up to serial number 30,000 at least it was used on all Edison machines. The B got its notch for the centering pin in the 17,000 range. The B C and D all had blank weights at first. The C joined in around 25,000, the D around 30,000. The arm appeared on the C sporadically through 1906 even though the new top stamped with reproducer appeared
