Am 22.06.2010 01:01, schrieb Terry Reedy:
On 6/21/2010 3:59 PM, Steve Holden wrote:
Terry Reedy wrote:
On 6/21/2010 8:33 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote:
P.S. (We're going to have a tough decision to make somewhere along the
line where docs.python.org is concerned, too - when do we flick the
switch
On 6/27/2010 5:44 AM, Georg Brandl wrote:
Am 22.06.2010 01:01, schrieb Terry Reedy:
On 6/21/2010 3:59 PM, Steve Holden wrote:
Terry Reedy wrote:
On 6/21/2010 8:33 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote:
P.S. (We're going to have a tough decision to make somewhere along the
line where docs.python.org is
Am 21.06.2010 17:13, schrieb Stephan Richter:
On Monday, June 21, 2010, Nick Coghlan wrote:
A decent listing of major packages that already support Python 3 would
be very handy for the new Python2orPython3 page I created on the wiki,
and easier to keep up-to-date. (the old Early2to3Migrations
Sure. Since I expect that the argument for treating 3.2 as a regular
production-use-ready release will be stronger then than now, I agree on
differing discussion.
I meant 'deferring'
--
Terry Jan Reedy
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On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 9:06 AM, Laurens Van Houtven l...@laurensvh.be wrote:
Okay cool, we fixed it: http://python-commandments.org/python3.html
People are otherwise happy with the text?
Yep, looks pretty good to me.
I hope you don't mind, but I actually borrowed your text to seed a
I would suggest that if packages that do not have Python 3 support yet are
listed, then their alternatives should also.
PyQt has had Py3 support for some time.
PostgreSQL and SQLite do (as does SQLAlchemy)
CherryPy has had Py3 support for the last release cycle
libxml2 does not, but lxml does.
On Jun 21, 2010, at 09:37 AM, Arc Riley wrote:
Also, under where it mentions that most OS's do not include Python 3, it
should be noted which have good support for it. Gentoo (for example) has
excellent support for Python 3, automatically installing Python packages
which have Py3 support for
On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 11:37 PM, Arc Riley arcri...@gmail.com wrote:
I would suggest that if packages that do not have Python 3 support yet are
listed, then their alternatives should also.
PyQt has had Py3 support for some time.
PostgreSQL and SQLite do (as does SQLAlchemy)
CherryPy has had
On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 09:57:30AM -0400, Barry Warsaw wrote:
On Jun 21, 2010, at 09:37 AM, Arc Riley wrote:
Also, under where it mentions that most OS's do not include Python 3, it
should be noted which have good support for it. Gentoo (for example) has
excellent support for Python 3,
Personally, I'd like to celebrate the upcoming Python 3.2 release (which
will hopefully include 3to2) with moving all packages which do not have the
'Programming Language :: Python :: 3' classifier to a Legacy section of
PyPI and offer only Python 3 packages otherwise. Of course put a banner at
On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 3:37 PM, Arc Riley arcri...@gmail.com wrote:
I would suggest that if packages that do not have Python 3 support yet are
listed, then their alternatives should also.
Okay, this is being worked on.
PyQt has had Py3 support for some time.
Added, as well as PySide.
On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 5:28 PM, Toshio Kuratomi a.bad...@gmail.com wrote:
nod Fedora 14 is about the same. A nice to have thing that goes along
with these would be a table that has packages ported to python3 and which
distributions have the python3 version of the package.
Yeah, this is
On 6/21/2010 8:33 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote:
P.S. (We're going to have a tough decision to make somewhere along the
line where docs.python.org is concerned, too - when do we flick the
switch and make a 3.x version of the docs the default?
Easy. When 3.2 is released. When 2.7 is released, 3.2
On 6/21/2010 11:31 AM, Arc Riley wrote:
Personally, I'd like to celebrate the upcoming Python 3.2 release (which
will hopefully include 3to2) with moving all packages which do not have
the 'Programming Language :: Python :: 3' classifier to a Legacy
section of PyPI and offer only Python 3
On Monday, June 21, 2010, Nick Coghlan wrote:
A decent listing of major packages that already support Python 3 would
be very handy for the new Python2orPython3 page I created on the wiki,
and easier to keep up-to-date. (the old Early2to3Migrations page
didn't look particularly up to date, but
On Jun 21, 2010, at 11:13 AM, Stephan Richter wrote:
I really just want to be able to go to PyPI, Click on Browse packages and
then select Python 3 (it can currently be accomplished by clicking Python
and then 3). Of course, package developers need to be encouraged to add
these Trove
Laurens Van Houtven wrote:
On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 5:28 PM, Toshio Kuratomi a.bad...@gmail.com wrote:
nod Fedora 14 is about the same. A nice to have thing that goes along
with these would be a table that has packages ported to python3 and which
distributions have the python3 version of the
Terry Reedy wrote:
On 6/21/2010 8:33 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote:
P.S. (We're going to have a tough decision to make somewhere along the
line where docs.python.org is concerned, too - when do we flick the
switch and make a 3.x version of the docs the default?
Easy. When 3.2 is released. When
On Monday, June 21, 2010, Barry Warsaw wrote:
On Jun 21, 2010, at 11:13 AM, Stephan Richter wrote:
I really just want to be able to go to PyPI, Click on Browse packages
and then select Python 3 (it can currently be accomplished by clicking
Python and then 3). Of course, package developers
On Sun, Jun 20, 2010 at 02:02, Terry Reedy tjre...@udel.edu wrote:
After reading the discussion in the previous thread, signed in to #python
and verified that the intro message starts with a lie about python3. I also
verified that the official #python site links to Python Commandment Don't
use
On Sun, Jun 20, 2010 at 18:20, Laurens Van Houtven l...@laurensvh.be wrote:
2.x or 3.x? http://tinyurl.com/py2or3
Wow. That's almost not an improvement... That link doesn't really help
anyone choose at all.
--
Lennart Regebro: Python, Zope, Plone, Grok
http://regebro.wordpress.com/
+33 661 58
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On 21 jun 2010, at 23:03, Lennart Regebro wrote:
On Sun, Jun 20, 2010 at 18:20, Laurens Van Houtven
l...@laurensvh.be wrote:
2.x or 3.x? http://tinyurl.com/py2or3
Wow. That's almost not an improvement... That link doesn't really help
anyone
On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 23:26, Simon de Vlieger si...@ikanobori.jp wrote:
That part of the topic will be replaced after all feedback is gathered on
the new article Laurens provided at:
http://python-commandments.org/python3.html as stated earlier in this
thread.
OK, great, I missed that!
--
On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 11:03 PM, Lennart Regebro rege...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sun, Jun 20, 2010 at 18:20, Laurens Van Houtven l...@laurensvh.be wrote:
2.x or 3.x? http://tinyurl.com/py2or3
Wow. That's almost not an improvement... That link doesn't really help
anyone choose at all.
--
On 6/21/2010 3:59 PM, Steve Holden wrote:
Terry Reedy wrote:
On 6/21/2010 8:33 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote:
P.S. (We're going to have a tough decision to make somewhere along the
line where docs.python.org is concerned, too - when do we flick the
switch and make a 3.x version of the docs the
On Sun, Jun 20, 2010 at 2:30 PM, Nick Coghlan ncogh...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sun, Jun 20, 2010 at 9:33 PM, Laurens Van Houtven l...@laurensvh.be
wrote:
Given the number of other links that are already in the status
message, it would be really nice if the comment could be updated to
something
On Sun, Jun 20, 2010 at 2:51 PM, Antoine Pitrou solip...@pitrou.net wrote:
On Sun, 20 Jun 2010 13:33:35 +0200
Laurens Van Houtven l...@laurensvh.be wrote:
Perhaps lower the tone a bit on http://pound-python.org/ ?
“foremost support system for developing quality Python
applications” ... “crack
On Sun, Jun 20, 2010 at 11:08 PM, Nick Efford n.d.eff...@leeds.ac.uk wrote:
Not sure if I agree with you here; I regard people new to
programming as the prime candidates for using Python 3. Many of
the language changes have the effect of making it significantly
easier to learn for newcomers
Glyph Lefkowitz wrote:
On Jun 19, 2010, at 5:02 PM, Terry Reedy wrote:
HoweverI have very little experience with IRC and consequently have
little idea what getting a permanent, owned, channel like #python
entails. Hence the '?' that follows.
What do others think?
Sure, this is a good
On Sun, Jun 20, 2010 at 3:08 PM, Nick Efford n.d.eff...@leeds.ac.uk wrote:
Thanks for explaining your position on this so carefully,
Laurens. You've made many reasonable points which I hope will
help to cool things down a little.
Cool, glad it's appreciated.
Clearly, there are situations
On Sun, Jun 20, 2010 at 5:37 PM, Steve Holden st...@holdenweb.com wrote:
Glyph Lefkowitz wrote:
On Jun 19, 2010, at 5:02 PM, Terry Reedy wrote:
Which is yet another reason I don't think it would be productive to
attempt any kind of pre-emptive action against the #python team. They do
serve a
Status update:
Topic now says:
NO LOL | Don't paste in here: use http://paste.pocoo.org/ |
http://pound-python.org/ | Include Python version in questions | 2.x or 3.x?
http://tinyurl.com/py2or3 | Tutorial: http://docs.python.org/tut/ | FAQ:
http://effbot.org/pyfaq/ | New Programmer? Read
Laurens Van Houtven wrote:
Status update:
Topic now says:
NO LOL | Don't paste in here: use http://paste.pocoo.org/ |
http://pound-python.org/ | Include Python version in questions | 2.x or 3.x?
http://tinyurl.com/py2or3 | Tutorial: http://docs.python.org/tut/ | FAQ:
Am 20.06.2010 18:20, schrieb Laurens Van Houtven:
2.x or 3.x?
http://tinyurl.com/py2or3
If you are interested, we could host any material that somebody would
want to provide on http://python.org/py2or3 (which would be one letter
shorter :-). We could also make this a redirect.
Regards,
Laurens Van Houtven writes:
The only situation in which I'd direct someone new to programming
away from Python 3 would be if they had a specific need to use a
library that wasn't yet supported.
Yeah, I think the reason for that rule is that the majority of people
asking about new
Laurens Van Houtven writes:
Also, I'm pretty sure nobody has ever said that Python 3.x was a
failure, or anything like it. #python has claims that Python 3.x, as
a platform for building production apps, is a work in progress
How about Python 3 is a work in progress for the topic? That
On Sun, Jun 20, 2010 at 7:48 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull
turnb...@sk.tsukuba.ac.jp wrote:
Laurens Van Houtven writes:
Also, I'm pretty sure nobody has ever said that Python 3.x was a
failure, or anything like it. #python has claims that Python 3.x, as
a platform for building production
Am 20.06.2010 19:48, schrieb Stephen J. Turnbull:
Laurens Van Houtven writes:
Also, I'm pretty sure nobody has ever said that Python 3.x was a
failure, or anything like it. #python has claims that Python 3.x, as
a platform for building production apps, is a work in progress
How
On Sun, Jun 20, 2010 at 7:42 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull step...@xemacs.org wrote:
Laurens Van Houtven writes:
Yeah, I think the reason for that rule is that the majority of people
asking about new software actually start or end up in this category.
I think that the most experienced people
On Sun, Jun 20, 2010 at 9:10 PM, Martin v. Löwis mar...@v.loewis.de wrote:
Am 20.06.2010 19:48, schrieb Stephen J. Turnbull:
How about Python 3 is a work in progress for the topic?
I wouldn't say that, either - not more than Python 2 was a work in progress
over the last 10 years.
Regards,
On 6/20/2010 6:35 AM, Laurens Van Houtven wrote:
I'm one of the active people in #python that some people dislike for
behavior with respect to Python 3.
As I wrote, I disliked the observable, written behavior, now changed.
You are obviously a fine person. We both love Python and have both
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In reply to the recent post by Laurens and the vow I made to change
the text which is presented on the python-commandments domain I have
asked Laurens to write a new text on the subject.
This message is a heads up to let all of you know that
Glad to hear the efforts are so appreciated. Unfortunately not
everyone agrees, but I'm beginning to think that's the tragedy of
internet politics :)
On Sun, Jun 20, 2010 at 10:34 PM, Terry Reedy tjre...@udel.edu wrote:
On 6/20/2010 6:35 AM, Laurens Van Houtven wrote:
I have no idea what has
That's not actually up just yet, I'd like people to review it,
personally I think it's still a tad bit biased towards Py3k. Until
then I'm keeping the Py3.x document by Nick Efford up there.
Thanks for your continued participation and seemingly endless patience,
Laurens
On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 7:12 AM, Simon de Vlieger si...@ikanobori.jp wrote:
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In reply to the recent post by Laurens and the vow I made to change the text
which is presented on the python-commandments domain I have asked Laurens to
write a new text
On 6/20/2010 5:53 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote:
On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 7:12 AM, Simon de Vliegersi...@ikanobori.jp wrote:
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In reply to the recent post by Laurens and the vow I made to change the text
which is presented on the python-commandments domain
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On 20 jun 2010, at 23:53, Nick Coghlan wrote:
About the only specific wording tweak I would suggest is that little
regard for backwards compatibility should be phrased as less regard
for backwards compatibility. There were still quite a few ideas
Okay cool, we fixed it: http://python-commandments.org/python3.html
People are otherwise happy with the text?
Thanks for your continued input,
Laurens
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Hello,
I'm one of the active people in #python that some people dislike for
behavior with respect to Python 3.
First of all I'd like to defuse the situation, much like Jacob.
Seriously. It's been a bunch of posts so far and most of them have
been pretty angry. Let's take a deep breath and try
On 20 Jun 2010, at 11:35, Laurens Van Houtven l...@laurensvh.be wrote:
Hello,
I'm one of the active people in #python that some people dislike for
behavior with respect to Python 3.
First of all I'd like to defuse the situation, much like Jacob.
Seriously. It's been a bunch of posts so
Michael,
Fair point! It's mostly put in the topic so people can ask about it
and we can give them more detailed answers, because, as other people
have mentioned, the exact answer depends largely on what *precisely*
someone is doing.
I'm not sure what sort of an effect it would have if we took
On Sun, Jun 20, 2010 at 9:33 PM, Laurens Van Houtven l...@laurensvh.be wrote:
I'm not sure what sort of an effect it would have if we took it out.
Maybe something we could try? I'm not sure it'd have much of a
practical effect since most of the regulars expertise isn't going to
shift
On Sun, 20 Jun 2010 13:33:35 +0200
Laurens Van Houtven l...@laurensvh.be wrote:
(One of the problems people I've talked to in private that were
pretty miffed about is the dissonance between #python and
python-dev, and that there's some problem with people assuming things
said on #python as
I'm sorry if you had the impression people wanted to nail you at the
stake for using Python 3. If that's how you felt, it isn't true. I
basically agree with Glyph. I don't think we've recently (I'm not
omnipresent) told anyone who had any good reasons to to stop using
Python 3. If someone's doing
After reading the discussion in the previous thread, signed in to
#python and verified that the intro message starts with a lie about
python3. I also verified that the official #python site links to Python
Commandment Don't use Python 3… yet. The excuse that the negative
commandment site is
On Jun 19, 2010, at 5:02 PM, Terry Reedy wrote:
HoweverI have very little experience with IRC and consequently have little
idea what getting a permanent, owned, channel like #python entails. Hence the
'?' that follows.
What do others think?
Sure, this is a good idea.
Technically
On Sat, Jun 19, 2010 at 5:02 PM, Terry Reedy tjre...@udel.edu wrote:
After reading the discussion in the previous thread, signed in to #python
and verified that the intro message starts with a lie about python3. I also
verified that the official #python site links to Python Commandment Don't
On Jun 19, 2010, at 5:39 PM, geremy condra wrote:
Bottom line, what I'd really like to do is kick them all off of #python, but
practically I see very little that can be done to rectify the situation at
this
point.
Here's something you can do: port libraries to python 3 and make the
On Jun 19, 2010, at 5:39 PM, geremy condra wrote:
Bottom line, what I'd really like to do is kick them all off of #python,
This is so profoundly wrong on so many levels it is hard to know how to respond.
Raymond
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On Sat, Jun 19, 2010 at 6:12 PM, Raymond Hettinger
raymond.hettin...@gmail.com wrote:
This is so profoundly wrong on so many levels it is hard to know how to
respond.
C'mon, Raymond, that's not any more helpful.
Geremy wasn't trying to argue for that course of action; he was
expression his
On Sun, Jun 20, 2010 at 11:19 AM, Jacob Kaplan-Moss ja...@jacobian.org wrote:
Let's all try to simmer down here a little bit and cut each other some
slack: this is a frustration situation, and we're not going to help it
by heaping more fuel on the fire.
The other thing to keep in mind is that
On Sat, Jun 19, 2010 at 9:12 PM, Raymond Hettinger
raymond.hettin...@gmail.com wrote:
On Jun 19, 2010, at 5:39 PM, geremy condra wrote:
Bottom line, what I'd really like to do is kick them all off of #python,
This is so profoundly wrong on so many levels it is hard to know how to
respond.
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