[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 622 railroaded through?

2020-07-07 Thread MRAB
On 2020-07-08 02:20, Greg Ewing wrote: On 8/07/20 12:48 pm, Chris Angelico wrote: "for x[0] in iter:" uses x[0] as an assignment target, You're right, there are some others, but I think they're equally clear -- all the ones I can think of are directly after a keyword ("for", "as", "import",

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 622 railroaded through?

2020-07-07 Thread Greg Ewing
On 8/07/20 12:48 pm, Chris Angelico wrote: "for x[0] in iter:" uses x[0] as an assignment target, You're right, there are some others, but I think they're equally clear -- all the ones I can think of are directly after a keyword ("for", "as", "import", etc.) But in match statements, they can

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 622 railroaded through?

2020-07-07 Thread Chris Angelico
On Wed, Jul 8, 2020 at 10:45 AM Greg Ewing wrote: > > On 8/07/20 12:24 pm, Daniel Moisset wrote: > > Many people in this thread have argued that the double meaning in the > > PEP might be confusing, but Python already has a double meaning in other > > places. > > But assignment targets have

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 622 railroaded through?

2020-07-07 Thread Greg Ewing
On 8/07/20 12:24 pm, Daniel Moisset wrote: Many people in this thread have argued that the double meaning in the PEP might be confusing, but Python already has a double meaning in other places. But assignment targets have always been clearly separated by being on the left of an assignment

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 622 railroaded through?

2020-07-07 Thread Daniel Moisset
On Tue, 7 Jul 2020 at 15:07, Rob Cliffe via Python-Dev < python-dev@python.org> wrote: > (...) Nor am I keen on "expressions" being interpreted > differently after 'case' than elsewhere in Python. Python already has "expressions" (intentional quotes) that are interpreted differently depending

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 622 railroaded through?

2020-07-07 Thread Rob Cliffe via Python-Dev
I would like to thank everyone who responded to me for their civilised and courteous replies.  I actually expected to get a lot of slagging off, but was prepared to accept that for what seemed to me at the time to be a legitimate concern. If my fears were unfounded, I am delighted. If I have

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 622 railroaded through?

2020-07-04 Thread Brandt Bucher
Since I took it upon myself to implement PEP 622, I just have a few thoughts to add to the other excellent responses here. Hopefully these will help clarify that the intent is not to "railroad" anything. Rob Cliffe wrote: > PEP 622 only seems to have been presented to the Python community only

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 622 railroaded through?

2020-07-03 Thread Terry Reedy
On 7/1/2020 4:14 PM, Rob Cliffe via Python-Dev wrote: I have an uneasy feeling about this PEP. I can understand that. AFAIK the usual procedure for adding a new feature to Python is:     An idea is raised and attracts some support.     Someone sufficiently motivated writes a PEP.     The

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 622 railroaded through?

2020-07-03 Thread Brett Cannon
On Fri, Jul 3, 2020 at 7:39 AM Rob Cliffe via Python-Dev < python-dev@python.org> wrote: > Whoa! > > I have an uneasy feeling about this PEP. > > AFAIK the usual procedure for adding a new feature to Python is: > An idea is raised and attracts some support. > Someone sufficiently

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 622 railroaded through?

2020-07-03 Thread Eric Snow
On Fri, Jul 3, 2020, 12:40 Eric Snow wrote: > Also, keep in mind that PEPs are a tool for the decision maker (i.e. > BDFL delegate). Effectively, everything else is convention. The process > usually involves community feedback, but has never been community-driven. > All this has become more

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 622 railroaded through?

2020-07-03 Thread Eric Snow
On Fri, Jul 3, 2020, 09:18 Antoine Pitrou wrote: > I think what you describe as "the usual procedure" isn't as usual as > you think. > +1 Also, keep in mind that PEPs are a tool for the decision maker (i.e. BDFL delegate). Effectively, everything else is convention. The process usually

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 622 railroaded through?

2020-07-03 Thread Simon Cross
On Fri, Jul 3, 2020 at 4:42 PM Rob Cliffe via Python-Dev < python-dev@python.org> wrote: > And since the PEP has Guido's authority behind it, I think > it is likely that it will eventually be accepted pretty much as it was > originally written. > This seems a bit unfair to Guido. He seems to put

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 622 railroaded through?

2020-07-03 Thread Antoine Pitrou
On Wed, 1 Jul 2020 21:14:00 +0100 Rob Cliffe via Python-Dev wrote: > Whoa! > > I have an uneasy feeling about this PEP. > > AFAIK the usual procedure for adding a new feature to Python is: >     An idea is raised and attracts some support. >     Someone sufficiently motivated writes a PEP. >

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 622 railroaded through?

2020-07-03 Thread Chris Angelico
On Sat, Jul 4, 2020 at 12:48 AM Rob Cliffe via Python-Dev wrote: > > Whoa! > > I have an uneasy feeling about this PEP. > > AFAIK the usual procedure for adding a new feature to Python is: > An idea is raised and attracts some support. > Someone sufficiently motivated writes a PEP. >