Neal Norwitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
On 12/23/05, Tim Peters [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
_assumed_ this was known damage everywhere so was waiting for someone
else to fix it ;-) (A parenthentical question: is there a reason you
don't pass -uall to regrtest.py?)
It's calling make test.
You
Neal Norwitz wrote:
And hopefully of interest to many here:
http://docs.python.org/dev/results/
These are the results of svn update, configure, build, test, install
and the doc run.
the trunk link on
http://www.python.org/dev/doc/
still points to the old
On Tuesday 27 December 2005 08:06, Fredrik Lundh wrote:
the trunk link on
http://www.python.org/dev/doc/
Fixed now; thanks for the reminder.
-Fred
--
Fred L. Drake, Jr. fdrake at acm.org
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Steve Holden wrote:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Steve Alternatively, is there any mileage in trying to either get
Steve Sourceforge to provide Windows machines in the compile farm, or
Steve get Microsoft to provide more software fee to Windows testers?
How about seeing if Microsoft
Brett Cannon wrote:
On 12/23/05, Neal Norwitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On 12/23/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
So for at least the time being they go up nightly
(http://www.trentm.com/python). I don't know what Trent did to make that
happen, but he did it fairly quickly. I
Santa sent me a bad-mood elf overnight, apparently just to motivate me ;-)
Since it's 2+ months after the fact, I doubt we'll ever know exactly
what went wrong here. In outline:
Rev 39758 (the AST merge) left pythoncore.vcproj in an unusable state.
That's the VC 7.1 project file that defines
Tim So, Merry Christmas to all, and there's no longer any reason to
Tim deprive yourself of the joy of upgrading to Windows ;-)
Merry Christmas to you as well Tim. Hopefully the bad-mood elf left after
seeing how happy you were to have figured out the build problems... Oh, and
I'll get
On Sun, Dec 25, 2005, Tim Peters wrote:
So, Merry Christmas to all, and there's no longer any reason to
deprive yourself of the joy of upgrading to Windows ;-)
Much Grass! I already upgraded to Windows, but it's turned off in favor
of my Linux box and iBook.
Yesterday I decided to try doing
Steve Holden wrote:
[...]
Alternatively, is there any mileage in trying to either get Sourceforge
to provide Windows machines in the compile farm, or get Microsoft to
provide more software fee to Windows testers?
^fee^free^
--
Steve Holden +44 150 684 7255 +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web
Neal I guess you might have to binary search by date to try and find
Neal the problem.
Probably needs to be a binary search by revision. I believe Martin
indicated a side effect of the conversion to subversion was that date-based
updates don't work.
Skip
Steve Alternatively, is there any mileage in trying to either get
Steve Sourceforge to provide Windows machines in the compile farm, or
Steve get Microsoft to provide more software fee to Windows testers?
How about seeing if Microsoft has or will create a compile farm?
Skip
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Steve Alternatively, is there any mileage in trying to either get
Steve Sourceforge to provide Windows machines in the compile farm, or
Steve get Microsoft to provide more software fee to Windows testers?
How about seeing if Microsoft has or will create a
[Neal]
Hmmm, I thought others were running the tests on Windows too. There
was one report on Nov 22 about running Purify on Windows 2k (subject:
ast status, memory leaks, etc). He had problems with a stack overflow
in test_compile. He was going to disable the test and re-run. I
never
Tim Peters wrote:
[Neal]
Hmmm, I thought others were running the tests on Windows too. There
was one report on Nov 22 about running Purify on Windows 2k (subject:
ast status, memory leaks, etc). He had problems with a stack overflow
in test_compile. He was going to disable the test and
[Samuele Pedroni]
PEP263:
To aid with platforms such as Windows, which add Unicode BOM marks
to the beginning of Unicode files, the UTF-8 signature
'\xef\xbb\xbf' will be interpreted as 'utf-8' encoding as well
(even if no magic encoding comment is given).
So
On 12/24/05, Tim Peters [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
You're asking a Windows guy about make: bad career move ;-)
:-)
-uall is helpful in finding bugs. One thing in particular here is
that test_compiler runs only a tiny subset of its full test unless an
appropriate -u flag is given.
Not to
Neal Norwitz wrote:
On 12/24/05, Tim Peters [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
[...]
The code up to the first failure is short:
bom = '\xef\xbb\xbf'
compile(bom + 'print 1\n', '', 'exec')
That sets `a` to point at the start of the string, `b` to point at the
second character,
[Neal Norwitz]
This gives me an idea (ie, wild ass guess). r39680 checked in on
2005-10-06 to speed up unicode charmap decoding. Dunno if it's likely
or not. Gotta run, I'm headed east. Good luck.
Nope, it's not calling any decoding functions at all on Windows, let
alone optimized ones ;-)
FWIW, test_builtin and test_pep263 both passed on WinXP in rev 39757.
That's the last revision before the AST branch was merged.
I can't build rev 39758 on WinXP (VC complains that pythoncore.vcproj
can't be loaded -- looks like it got checked in with unresolved SVN
conflict markers -- which
On 12/24/05, Tim Peters [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
FWIW, test_builtin and test_pep263 both passed on WinXP in rev 39757.
That's the last revision before the AST branch was merged.
I can't build rev 39758 on WinXP (VC complains that pythoncore.vcproj
can't be loaded -- looks like it got checked
[Tim]
FWIW, test_builtin and test_pep263 both passed on WinXP in rev 39757.
That's the last revision before the AST branch was merged.
I can't build rev 39758 on WinXP (VC complains that pythoncore.vcproj
can't be loaded -- looks like it got checked in with unresolved SVN
conflict markers --
On 12/24/05, Tim Peters [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
[Tim]
FWIW, test_builtin and test_pep263 both passed on WinXP in rev 39757.
That's the last revision before the AST branch was merged.
I can't build rev 39758 on WinXP (VC complains that pythoncore.vcproj
can't be loaded -- looks like it
Robey Pointer wrote:
On 22 Dec 2005, at 3:51, Michael Hudson wrote:
Fredrik Lundh [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Checked the python-list archives lately? If you google c.l.python
for the
word documentation, you'll find recent megathreads with subjects
like
bitching about the
Reinhold Birkenfeld wrote:
I can only speak for my own experience, but maybe it will help. I
once tried to help fix a piece of the python docs. The description
of Py_UNICODE on http://docs.python.org/api/unicodeObjects.html was
-- and still is -- incorrect.
The current docs were
Robey I can only speak for my own experience, but maybe it will help.
Robey I once tried to help fix a piece of the python docs. The
Robey description of Py_UNICODE on
Robey http://docs.python.org/api/unicodeObjects.html was
Robey -- and still is -- incorrect.
Check here:
On 23 Dec 2005, at 0:53, Reinhold Birkenfeld wrote:
Robey Pointer wrote:
On 22 Dec 2005, at 3:51, Michael Hudson wrote:
Fredrik Lundh [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Checked the python-list archives lately? If you google c.l.python
for the
word documentation, you'll find recent megathreads
That may not be a good thing. Documentation fixes should go online
much quicker than with every Python release, or am I mistaken?
Robey Yes, I think that's obviously ridiculous on the face of it, since
Robey fixes to the python 2.4 docs may be useless by the time 2.5 comes
On 12/23/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
So for at least the time being they go up nightly
(http://www.trentm.com/python). I don't know what Trent did to make that
happen, but he did it fairly quickly. I doubt it would be hard to replicate
on the docs server.
I couldn't let
On 12/23/05, Neal Norwitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On 12/23/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
So for at least the time being they go up nightly
(http://www.trentm.com/python). I don't know what Trent did to make that
happen, but he did it fairly quickly. I doubt it would be
[Neal Norwitz wrote]
I couldn't let Trent have all the fun.
http://docs.python.org/dev/
Yah, I'd had a great time. wink Back to Xmas drinking.
Cheers,
Trent
--
Trent Mick
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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[Neal Norwitz]
...
I couldn't let Trent have all the fun.
http://docs.python.org/dev/
And hopefully of interest to many here:
http://docs.python.org/dev/results/
Wow! You get no test failures! I guess nobody tests on Windows
anymore. I've been getting test failures for months,
On 12/23/05, Tim Peters [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
http://docs.python.org/dev/results/
Wow! You get no test failures! I guess nobody tests on Windows
anymore. I've been getting test failures for months, and just
Hmmm, I thought others were running the tests on Windows too. There
was
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Fredrik If you google c.l.python for the word documentation, you'll
Fredrik find recent megathreads with subjects like bitching about the
Fredrik documentation, opensource documentation problems and python
Fredrik documentation should be better among
Fredrik Lundh [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Checked the python-list archives lately? If you google c.l.python for the
word documentation, you'll find recent megathreads with subjects like
bitching about the documentation, opensource documentation problems
and python documentation should be
Ian Bicking wrote:
This is somewhat tangential to this discussion, but I did have the
Python documentation in mind as a potential future target for
Commentary: http://pythonpaste.org/comment/commentary/ -- which would
allow more casual contributions that seem to work well for other projects.
Steve Holden writes:
Could the PSF help here by offering annual prizes for the best
contributions to the documentation, or wouldn't that be an adequate
motivator?
Money is not a very effective motivator for this sort of work. (Well,
in sufficient quantities it is, but the quantities required
On Thursday 22 December 2005 08:50, Michael Chermside wrote:
Money is not a very effective motivator for this sort of work. (Well,
in sufficient quantities it is, but the quantities required are
quite large.) Offering *credit* is more effective -- a mention within
a contributors list
2005/12/21, Phillip J. Eby [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
3. Fredrik believes that more people would participate in updating Python
documentation if it didn't require a LaTeX toolchain or LaTeX-friendly editor.
I'm sure he's right. I'm not talking about any random user that finds
a doc bug and wants to
At 10:27 AM 12/22/2005 +0100, Walter Dörwald wrote:
Phillip J. Eby wrote:
[...]
If someone has examples of actual Pythondoc markup that don't translate
to reST, I'd be really interested in seeing them, just for my own
education. Of course, I'd also be curious how common such constructs
I wrote:
My own favorite idea is to create a comment-on-the-docs mechanism
allowing both COMMENTS, and PROPOSED EDITS.
Fred Drake replies:
I'm unclear on what you buy with having these two labels; are comments things
that (presumably) get ignored by the documentation editor, or are the
Michael Chermside wrote:¨
Me too. Specifically, I think if you make it really easy to write notes
on the docs you will get some helpful documentation content. You will
also get lots of things that are too lengthy or exhaustive, to specific
to one person's problem, helpdesk style questions,
On 12/21/05, Barry Warsaw [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Wed, 2005-12-21 at 20:36 +0100, Fredrik Lundh wrote:
I'm not really interested in optimizing for you, I'm interested in
optimizing
for everyone else. They already know HTML. They don't know ReST, and
I doubt they care about it (how
Facundo Batista wrote:
2005/12/21, Phillip J. Eby [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
3. Fredrik believes that more people would participate in updating Python
documentation if it didn't require a LaTeX toolchain or LaTeX-friendly
editor.
I'm sure he's right. I'm not talking about any random user that
On 22 Dec 2005, at 3:51, Michael Hudson wrote:
Fredrik Lundh [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Checked the python-list archives lately? If you google c.l.python
for the
word documentation, you'll find recent megathreads with subjects
like
bitching about the documentation, opensource
Martin v. Löwis wrote:
If you just want to know what your changes look like: type make html
in the Doc directory, and wait a moment for it to complete. I get
xml.etree as section 13.13.
provided you have all the right stuff on your machine, that is:
$ make html
TEXINPUTS=...
+++
Fredrik Lundh wrote:
- is it perhaps time to start investigating using lighter tools for the core
documentation ?
+1
regards
Steve
--
Steve Holden +44 150 684 7255 +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006
Steve Holden [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Fredrik Lundh wrote:
- is it perhaps time to start investigating using lighter tools for the
core
documentation ?
+1
+1 for using ReST.
+0 for sticking with latex.
-1 for choosing something not ReST or latex.
+10 for any language we can
Josiah Carlson wrote:
-1 for choosing something not ReST or latex.
yeah, because using something that everyone else uses would of course
not be the python way.
/F
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[Copied to the Doc-SIG list.]
On Wednesday 21 December 2005 13:02, Josiah Carlson wrote:
+1 for using ReST.
+0 for sticking with latex.
I'll try and spend a little time on this issue this week, but time is hard to
come by these days.
ReST (as implemented in docutils) at this point does
Phillip J. Eby wrote:
(as I hinted, I'd prefer HTML with microformat annotations as the main
format;
with roundtripping to markdown or rest (etc) for people who prefer to
author in that, and tidy-xhtml-python tools for the HTML generation)
I don't see how HTML is any lighter than LaTeX -
On Wed, Dec 21, 2005 at 05:10:24PM +0100, Fredrik Lundh wrote:
(as I hinted, I'd prefer HTML with microformat annotations as the
main format; with roundtripping to markdown or rest (etc) for people
who prefer to author in that, and tidy-xhtml-python tools for the
HTML generation)
I don't see
A.M. Kuchling wrote:
On Wed, Dec 21, 2005 at 05:10:24PM +0100, Fredrik Lundh wrote:
(as I hinted, I'd prefer HTML with microformat annotations as the
main format; with roundtripping to markdown or rest (etc) for people
who prefer to author in that, and tidy-xhtml-python tools for the
HTML
Fred L. Drake, Jr. wrote:
LaTeX, for all the tool requirements, is a fairly light-weight markup
language. Yes, it has too many special characters. But someone else
invented it, and I'm not keen on inventing any more than we have to.
someone else invented it is of course why I'm advocating
Fredrik Lundh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Josiah Carlson wrote:
-1 for choosing something not ReST or latex.
yeah, because using something that everyone else uses would of course
not be the python way.
No, because ReST is significantly easier to learn and use than basically
every other
Fredrik someone else invented it is of course why I'm advocating an
Fredrik HTML- based format.
Of course, someone also invented HTML and TeX+LaTeX predates HTML by quite a
bit.
Fredrik And *everyone* knows how to write HTML.
That's debatable. Maybe most people in the python-dev
On Wed, Dec 21, 2005 at 07:55:42PM +0100, Walter Dörwald wrote:
reST is a possibility, though I don't think anyone has worked on
building the required toolchain. Fred has a LaTeX-to-XML-format
converter kicking around somewhere,
Is this available somewhere?
Docs/tools/sgmlconv/, I think.
Josiah Carlson wrote:
yeah, because using something that everyone else uses would of course
not be the python way.
No, because ReST is significantly easier to learn and use than basically
every other markup language I've gotten my hands on.
I'm not really interested in optimizing for you,
At 08:21 PM 12/21/2005 +0100, Fredrik Lundh wrote:
Phillip J. Eby wrote:
And attempting to roundtrip HTML back to reST would lose far too much
information
in a less dogmatic Python universe, that would be considered a major
design flaw in ReST.
Since when is having a more
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Fredrik And *everyone* knows how to write HTML.
That's debatable. Maybe most people in the python-dev community know how.
Even within this communitiy I suspect there are at least a few people who
normally use something else (like Word) to generate HTML for them.
At 01:43 PM 12/21/2005 -0600, Ian Bicking wrote:
But when I want to focus
on content the markup is very distracting, and even moreso when writing
about programming (where ASCII, newlines, and whitespace is the native
layout technique).
And where characters like '' and '' occur frequently as
Fredrik Lundh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Josiah Carlson wrote:
yeah, because using something that everyone else uses would of course
not be the python way.
No, because ReST is significantly easier to learn and use than basically
every other markup language I've gotten my hands on.
On Wed, 2005-12-21 at 20:36 +0100, Fredrik Lundh wrote:
I'm not really interested in optimizing for you, I'm interested in optimizing
for everyone else. They already know HTML. They don't know ReST, and
I doubt they care about it (how many blogs accept ReST for comments?)
Sorry, but HTML
On 12/21/05, Barry Warsaw [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
[SNIP]
Maybe it's just because I came in late on this thread, but what exactly
is broken about the current LaTeX documentation?
Well, the toolchain is not necessarily installed on everyone's
computer. Plus not everyone knows LaTeX comparative
Hallöchen!
A.M. Kuchling [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
On Wed, Dec 21, 2005 at 05:10:24PM +0100, Fredrik Lundh wrote:
(as I hinted, I'd prefer HTML with microformat annotations as the
main format; with roundtripping to markdown or rest (etc) for
people who prefer to author in that, and
At 03:16 PM 12/21/2005 -0500, Barry Warsaw wrote:
Maybe it's just because I came in late on this thread, but what exactly
is broken about the current LaTeX documentation?
As far as I can tell from his comments:
1. Fredrik doesn't want to have to install a LaTeX toolchain in order to
get an HTML
[Fredrik Lundh wrote]
$ make html
TEXINPUTS=...
+++ TEXINPUTS=...
+++ latex api
*** Session transcript and error messages are in
.../Python-2.5/Doc/html/api/api.how.
*** Exited with status 127.
The relevant lines from the transcript are:
Barry Warsaw wrote:
Sorry, but HTML and (even more so) XML are not human-writable. :) Yeah,
we can all do the simple stuff, but I absolutely hate authoring in HTML,
and it would be a nightmare if the documentation production system
didn't handle lots and lots of magic for you (like weaving
Barry Warsaw wrote:
Sure, and some people hate using whitespace for block structure.
A more proper analogy would be people who hate braces and parentheses.
You have to type so many more and characters (not to mention s
and ;s) to make happy-joy html than you have to type \s and {s and }s
A.M. Kuchling wrote:
On Wed, Dec 21, 2005 at 07:55:42PM +0100, Walter Dörwald wrote:
reST is a possibility, though I don't think anyone has worked on
building the required toolchain. Fred has a LaTeX-to-XML-format
converter kicking around somewhere,
Is this available somewhere?
Phillip J. Eby wrote:
And where characters like '' and '' occur frequently as part of the text,
especially in showing Python interactions like this:
print hello world
hello world
I can't imagine trying to author the above in an HTML/XML based format,
it's spelled
print
Fredrik Lundh wrote:
- could a cronjob that does this be set up on some python.org machine
(or on some volunteer's machine)
My understanding is: not easily. Somebody would have to invest time, of
course. And then there is the issue of the build failing due to syntax
errors in the input.
- is
Phillip J. Eby wrote:
1. Fredrik doesn't want to have to install a LaTeX toolchain in order to
get an HTML version of the documentation
2. Fredrik likes using whatever tools he has for editing HTML better than
whatever he has for editing LaTeX
3. Fredrik believes that more people would
At 01:40 AM 12/22/2005 +0100, Martin v. Löwis wrote:
Phillip J. Eby wrote:
1. Fredrik doesn't want to have to install a LaTeX toolchain in order to
get an HTML version of the documentation
2. Fredrik likes using whatever tools he has for editing HTML better than
whatever he has for
Fredrik If you google c.l.python for the word documentation, you'll
Fredrik find recent megathreads with subjects like bitching about the
Fredrik documentation, opensource documentation problems and python
Fredrik documentation should be better among the top hits. But if you
[Fredrik wrote]
- could a cronjob that does this be set up on some python.org machine
(or on some volunteer's machine)
I bit:
http://trentm.com/python/
Cheers,
Trent
--
Trent Mick
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Fredrik Lundh wrote:
Maybe it's just because I came in late on this thread, but what exactly
is broken about the current LaTeX documentation?
Checked the python-list archives lately? If you google c.l.python for the
word documentation, you'll find recent megathreads with subjects like
the Documentation Development page at
http://www.python.org/dev/doc/
contains a link to a SVN trunk version which was last updated nearly
four months ago. what would it take to automatically update the trunk
docs, say, once a day or so ?
or is it time to move away from the current
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