Is my suggested rephrasing correct? I don't know, as I'm not familiar
with either the original problem or what was done to fix it.
I don't know, either, and Andrew may not able to answer the question
as he may not see the fine difference between what he wrote and what
you wrote (your phrasing
On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 04:21:22 +0200
victor.stinner python-check...@python.org wrote:
diff --git a/pep-0418.txt b/pep-0418.txt
--- a/pep-0418.txt
+++ b/pep-0418.txt
@@ -190,13 +190,13 @@
Name Resolution Adjusted by NTP? Action on
suspend
martin at v.loewis.de writes:
Now that we do have the PEP, I think that should be done properly.
I thought you offered to rewrite it. Formally, I could accept the
PEP being withdrawn, and the feature integrated anyway, but I still
consider that bad style.
So: I can offer to rewrite the
28.03.12 23:20, Andrew Svetlov написав(ла):
I figured out what pytz and dateutil are not mentioned in python docs
for datetime module.
It's clean why these libs is not a part of Python Libraries — but
that's not clean for Docs.
I don't understand why Python may not include the pytz. The Olson
diff --git a/pep-0418.txt b/pep-0418.txt
--- a/pep-0418.txt
+++ b/pep-0418.txt
@@ -190,13 +190,13 @@
Name Resolution Adjusted by NTP? Action on
suspend
= ===
=
Is it supposed to be
On Thu, Mar 29, 2012 at 17:26, Victor Stinner victor.stin...@gmail.com wrote:
The problem is not the frame, but the Python thread state referenced by the
frame. It's a private attribute. My patch just updates this reference before
running the generator (and it clears the reference when the
On 03/29/2012 06:07 PM, R. David Murray wrote:
On Thu, 29 Mar 2012 23:00:20 +0200, Stefan Behnelstefan...@behnel.de wrote:
R. David Murray, 29.03.2012 22:31:
On Thu, 29 Mar 2012 13:09:17 -0700, Guido van Rossum wrote:
On Thu, Mar 29, 2012 at 12:58 PM, R. David Murray wrote:
Some of us have
On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 13:38:13 +0300, Serhiy Storchaka storch...@gmail.com
wrote:
28.03.12 23:20, Andrew Svetlov напиÑав(ла):
I figured out what pytz and dateutil are not mentioned in python docs
for datetime module.
It's clean why these libs is not a part of Python Libraries â
I filed the http://bugs.python.org/issue14448 BTW.
On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 3:47 PM, R. David Murray rdmur...@bitdance.com wrote:
On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 13:38:13 +0300, Serhiy Storchaka storch...@gmail.com
wrote:
28.03.12 23:20, Andrew Svetlov написав(ла):
I figured out what pytz and dateutil
On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 10:47 PM, R. David Murray rdmur...@bitdance.com wrote:
On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 13:38:13 +0300, Serhiy Storchaka storch...@gmail.com
wrote:
28.03.12 23:20, Andrew Svetlov написав(ла):
I figured out what pytz and dateutil are not mentioned in python docs
for datetime
Etienne, I have not understood either of your messages in this thread. They
just did not make sense to me. Do you actually understand the issue at hand?
--Guido
On Friday, March 30, 2012, Etienne Robillard wrote:
On 03/29/2012 06:07 PM, R. David Murray wrote:
On Thu, 29 Mar 2012 23:00:20
Hi Guido,
I'm sorry for being unclear! I just try actually to learn what thoses
consequences for theses 'unattended' mutations in dictionary key lookups
could be, :-)
however, it seems now that I might have touch a nerve without realizing
it. I would therefore appreciate more light on this
Multiple threads can agree by convention not to mutate a shared dict,
there's no great need for enforcement. Multiple processes can't share
dicts.
its not sure I get completely the meaning of mutate... And if
possible, I would like also the rational for the 2nd phrase while we're
at it as
Etienne Robillard, 30.03.2012 17:45:
Sorry also if this is OT... :)
Yes, it is. Please do as Nick told you.
Stefan
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you wish...are you also truth allergic or irritated by the consequences
of free speech ? Please stop giving me orders. You don't even know me
and this is at all not necessary and good netiquette if you want to
bring a point to ponder.
Sorry for others who thinks this is not OT as I its
ACTIVITY SUMMARY (2012-03-23 - 2012-03-30)
Python tracker at http://bugs.python.org/
To view or respond to any of the issues listed below, click on the issue.
Do NOT respond to this message.
Issues counts and deltas:
open3359 (+13)
closed 22871 (+42)
total 26230 (+55)
Open issues
Etienne Robillard, 30.03.2012 18:08:
are you also truth allergic or irritated by the consequences of
free speech ?
Please note that free speech is a concept that is different from asking
beginner's computer science questions on the core developer mailing list of
a software development project.
your reasoning is pathetic at best. i pass... Thanks for the tip :-)
Cheers,
Etienne
On 03/30/2012 12:18 PM, Stefan Behnel wrote:
Etienne Robillard, 30.03.2012 18:08:
are you also truth allergic or irritated by the consequences of
free speech ?
Please note that free speech is a concept
Thank you for mentoring.
I will fix NEWS if you help me with better text.
The bug fixed is that commit is:
IDLE has 3 configs: user, system default and hardcoded in python code.
Last one had bad binding for Return key.
Usually this config is never used: user or system ones overrides former.
But
Etienne Robillard wrote:
your reasoning is pathetic at best. i pass... Thanks for the tip :-)
The Python Developer list is for the discussion of developing Python,
not for teaching basic programming.
You are being rude, and a smiley does not make you less rude.
I am adding you to my
On 03/30/2012 02:23 PM, Ethan Furman wrote:
Etienne Robillard wrote:
your reasoning is pathetic at best. i pass... Thanks for the tip :-)
The Python Developer list is for the discussion of developing Python,
not for teaching basic programming.
You are being rude, and a smiley does not make
The overview of the different monotonic clocks was interesting,
because only one of them is adjusted by NTP, and that's the unix
CLOCK_MONOTONIC. Hence we don't need a raw=False flag, which I
previously suggested, we only need to not use CLOCK_MONOTONIC (which
the PEP psuedo-code indeed also does
On 03/30/2012 03:02 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote:
Hey Etienne, I am honestly trying to understand your contribution but
you seem to have started a discussion about free speech. Trust me that
we don't mind your contributions, we're just trying to understand what
you're saying, and the free speech
On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 15:13:36 -0400, Etienne Robillard animelo...@gmail.com
wrote:
So far I was only attempting to verify whether this is related to
PEP-416 or not. If this is indeed related PEP 416, then I must obviously
attest that I must still understand why a immutable dict would prevent
On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 12:13 PM, Etienne Robillard
animelo...@gmail.com wrote:
On 03/30/2012 03:02 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote:
Hey Etienne, I am honestly trying to understand your contribution but
you seem to have started a discussion about free speech. Trust me that
we don't mind your
2012/3/30 eli.bendersky python-check...@python.org:
http://hg.python.org/cpython/rev/0ca32013d77e
changeset: 75997:0ca32013d77e
parent: 75995:cf2e74e0b7d4
user: Eli Bendersky eli...@gmail.com
date: Fri Mar 30 16:38:33 2012 +0300
summary:
Issue #14065: Added cyclic GC
On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 12:01 PM, Lennart Regebro rege...@gmail.com wrote:
The overview of the different monotonic clocks was interesting,
because only one of them is adjusted by NTP, and that's the unix
CLOCK_MONOTONIC. Hence we don't need a raw=False flag, which I
previously suggested, we
Hi,
Windows provides two main monotonic clocks: QueryPerformanceCounter()
and GetTickCount(). QueryPerformanceCounter() has a good accuracy (0.3
ns - 5 ns) but has various issues and is know to not have a steady
rate. GetTickCount() has a worse accuracy (1 ms - 15 ms) but is more
stable and
On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 12:40:25 -0700, Guido van Rossum gu...@python.org wrote:
But for the other, I'm still at a loss, and that name is the most
important one. We can't call it steady because it isn't always.
highres or hires sounds awkward; try_monotonic or try_steady are even
more awkward. I
On 2012-03-30, at 3:40 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote:
I still think the name monotonic give the wrong impression; I would
be happy calling it steady.
Simple google search comparison shows that people ask about 'monotonic'
clock in python, not 'steady'.
How about following Nick's (if I recall
On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 1:21 PM, Victor Stinner
victor.stin...@gmail.com wrote:
Windows provides two main monotonic clocks: QueryPerformanceCounter()
and GetTickCount(). QueryPerformanceCounter() has a good accuracy (0.3
ns - 5 ns) but has various issues and is know to not have a steady
rate.
On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 1:52 PM, Guido van Rossum gu...@python.org wrote:
On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 1:21 PM, Victor Stinner
victor.stin...@gmail.com wrote:
Windows provides two main monotonic clocks: QueryPerformanceCounter()
and GetTickCount(). QueryPerformanceCounter() has a good accuracy (0.3
Possibly we really do need two timers, one for measuring short
intervals and one for measuring long intervals? Perhaps we can use
this to decide on the names?
Anyway, the more I think about it, the more I believe these functions
should have very loose guarantees, and instead just cater to common
On 30Mar2012 13:52, Guido van Rossum gu...@python.org wrote:
| (In fact, this even argues against having both the timer with fallback
| and the timer without fallback. So maybe we should just have a single
| timer function, *with* fallback, and a separate mechanism to inquire
| its properties.)
On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 2:43 PM, Cameron Simpson c...@zip.com.au wrote:
On 30Mar2012 13:52, Guido van Rossum gu...@python.org wrote:
| (In fact, this even argues against having both the timer with fallback
| and the timer without fallback. So maybe we should just have a single
| timer
On 03/30/2012 03:27 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote:
On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 12:13 PM, Etienne Robillard
animelo...@gmail.com wrote:
On 03/30/2012 03:02 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote:
Hey Etienne, I am honestly trying to understand your contribution but
you seem to have started a discussion about
Can you go into more detail about QPC()'s issues?
Yes, see the PEP:
http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0418/#windows-queryperformancecounter
What is unsteady about its rate?
Hum, I read that you can expect a drift between QPC and GetTickCount.
I don't have exact numbers. There are also issues
No, not really. Anyways, I guess I'll have to further dig down why is
PEP-416 is really important to Python and why it was likewise rejected,
supposing I confused the pep 416 and issue 14417 along the way.. :-)
The frozendict builtin type was rejected, but we are going to add
On 30Mar2012 15:21, Guido van Rossum gu...@python.org wrote:
| On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 2:43 PM, Cameron Simpson c...@zip.com.au wrote:
| Given the subtlety sought for various purposes, people should be
| calling:
| T = time.getclock(flags)
| and then later calling:
| T.now()
| to get their
Given the amount of disagreement I sense, I think we'll need to wait
for more people to chime in.
On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 3:47 PM, Victor Stinner
victor.stin...@gmail.com wrote:
Can you go into more detail about QPC()'s issues?
Yes, see the PEP:
On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 4:44 PM, Cameron Simpson c...@zip.com.au wrote:
[Lots of good stuff]
Maybe you and Victor should try to merge your proposals off-line and
then get back with a new proposal here.
Make the epoch available in the clock wrapper as a property. At least
then there's a
Guido van Rossum wrote:
But for the other, I'm still at a loss, and that name is the most
important one. We can't call it steady because it isn't always.
highres or hires sounds awkward; try_monotonic or try_steady are even
more awkward. I looked in an online thesaurus and here's a list of
what
2012/3/31 Guido van Rossum gu...@python.org:
Given the amount of disagreement I sense, I think we'll need to wait
for more people to chime in.
I hope that the PEP now gives enough data to help to choose the best API.
Hum, I read that you can expect a drift between QPC and GetTickCount.
I
On Mar 30, 2012, at 8:51 PM, Victor Stinner wrote:
time.highres() (QPC) rate is only steady during a short duration
QPC is not even necessarily steady for a short duration, due to BIOS bugs,
unless the code running your timer is bound to a single CPU core.
There seem to be a few competing features for clocks that people want:
- monotonic - never going backward at all
- high resolution
These features look to be exclusive on Windows. On other platforms, it
looks like monotonic clocks are always the most accurate clocks. So I
don't think that we
On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 5:51 PM, Victor Stinner
victor.stin...@gmail.com wrote:
2012/3/31 Guido van Rossum gu...@python.org:
Given the amount of disagreement I sense, I think we'll need to wait
for more people to chime in.
I hope that the PEP now gives enough data to help to choose the best
On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 6:24 PM, Victor Stinner
victor.stin...@gmail.com wrote:
There seem to be a few competing features for clocks that people want:
- monotonic - never going backward at all
- high resolution
These features look to be exclusive on Windows. On other platforms, it
looks
On Mar 30, 2012, at 9:32 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote:
- no steps
You mean not adjusted by NTP? Except CLOCK_MONOTONIC on Linux, no
monotonic clock is adjusted by NTP. On Linux, there is
CLOCK_MONOTONIC_RAW, but it is only available on recent Linux kernel
(2.6.28).
Do you think that it
Impact: A timeout may be 42 seconds shorter than the requested
duration if is uses QPC. For a scheduler, a task would be scheduled at
the right moment.
I don't understand this paragraph. And why is it always exactly a loss
of 42 seconds?
Sorry, it's late here, I'm too tired. A jump of 42
(...)
By contrast, stepping only happens if your local clock is just set
incorrectly and the re-sync delta has more to do with administrative error
or failed batteries than differences in timekeeping accuracy.
Are you talking about CLOCK_REALTIME or CLOCK_MONOTONIC?
Victor
On Mar 30, 2012, at 10:17 PM, Victor Stinner wrote:
(...)
By contrast, stepping only happens if your local clock is just set
incorrectly and the re-sync delta has more to do with administrative error
or failed batteries than differences in timekeeping accuracy.
Are you talking about
On Mar 30, 2012, at 10:25 PM, Glyph wrote:
On Mar 30, 2012, at 10:17 PM, Victor Stinner wrote:
(...)
By contrast, stepping only happens if your local clock is just set
incorrectly and the re-sync delta has more to do with administrative error
or failed batteries than differences in
On 3/30/2012 8:26 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
hires is a real English word, the present tense verb for engaging the
service or labour of someone or something in return for payment, as in
he hires a gardener to mow the lawn. Can we please eliminate it from
consideration
I agree. Heavy cognitive
On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 21:30, Benjamin Peterson benja...@python.orgwrote:
+def test_cyclic_gc(self):
+class ShowGC:
+def __init__(self, flaglist):
+self.flaglist = flaglist
+def __del__(self):
+
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