, and then later figure out an
attractive design and organization for a new site.
suggested hostname: why.python.org
This is where the process always gets bogged down. :-( Once we have
material, that's the time to start arguing about where it should go.
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in 2.4.0 to marshal an object in the
old version format as a string -- you'd have to work around by writing a real
file and reading it back :-(
Brown bag time?
--
Aahz ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) * http://www.pythoncraft.com/
19. A language that doesn't affect the way you think about
of these sound
like critical bugs to me.
You don't think a blowup in marshal is critical? Mind expanding on
that?
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19. A language that doesn't affect the way you think about programming,
is not worth knowing. --Alan Perlis
, junk = time.localtime()
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19. A language that doesn't affect the way you think about programming,
is not worth knowing. --Alan Perlis
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Given that C++ has pointers and typecasts, it's really hard to have a serious
conversation about type safety with a C++ programmer and keep a straight face.
It's kind of like having a guy who juggles chainsaws
.
--
Aahz ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) * http://www.pythoncraft.com/
Given that C++ has pointers and typecasts, it's really hard to have a serious
conversation about type safety with a C++ programmer and keep a straight face.
It's kind of like having a guy who juggles chainsaws wearing body armor
get contrib agreements from all CVS committers.
--
Aahz ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) * http://www.pythoncraft.com/
The joy of coding Python should be in seeing short, concise, readable
classes that express a lot of action in a small amount of clear code --
not in reams of trivial code
review
idea. Can someone make sure that's explained on the /dev/ site?
This should go into Brett's survey of the Python dev process, not as
official documentation. It's simply an offer made by some of the
prominent members of python-dev.
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how often, but I was working on some code at my company yesterday
that did that -- we use a lot of ints to indicate options.
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The joy of coding Python should be in seeing short, concise, readable
classes that express a lot
/dev_intro.html
Another thing: I don't know whether you'll get this in direct e-mail;
it's considered a bit rude for python-dev to use munged addresses.
--
Aahz ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) * http://www.pythoncraft.com/
The joy of coding Python should be in seeing short, concise, readable
Both entries so far look very good. Perhaps writing python-dev summaries
could be a rotating position?
--
Aahz ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) * http://www.pythoncraft.com/
The joy of coding Python should be in seeing short, concise, readable
classes that express a lot of action
On Fri, Mar 04, 2005, John J Lee wrote:
On Fri, 4 Mar 2005, Aahz wrote:
Both entries so far look very good. Perhaps writing python-dev summaries
could be a rotating position?
Or even a joint effort? It's up to the contributors, of course: just
a thought...
That was my original thought
if you (or anyone) really wants me to.
Otherwise, I'd rather leave it as-is and go fix more bugs.
Please revert. I've spent more time than I'd like dealing with the
introduction of booleans in Python 2.2, and helping other people avoid
similar problems seems like a Good Thing to me.
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1.5.1? I'm a bit embarassed that Python 2.4's optparse has __version__
== 1.5a2 because I didn't release Optik 1.5 in time.
-1, sorry
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The joy of coding Python should be in seeing short, concise, readable
classes
you have to actually code for
three different problems in two major versions. Sehr schlecht.
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The joy of coding Python should be in seeing short, concise, readable
classes that express a lot of action in a small amount
knowledge...
Functionally speaking, Python has only major releases and micro
releases. We don't have the resources to support minor releases.
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The joy of coding Python should be in seeing short, concise, readable
classes
OrderedDict to stdlib, but it's another use case. Each dict key
contains a dict value; the subkeys from later-added keys are supposed to
override earlier subkeys. The original implementation relied on subkeys
being unique, but that doesn't work for our new business requirements.)
--
Aahz ([EMAIL
On Wed, Mar 09, 2005, Raymond Hettinger wrote:
[Aahz]
Gee, I just found out I could have used an OrderedDict today. (We're
using a dict that we're now having to add an auxilliary list to to track
when keys are added.) (This isn't particularly an argument in favor of
adding OrderedDict
=
Rosalyn Lum
Technical Editor
Software Development Magazine
CMP Media
600 Harrison St., 6th Floor
San Francisco, CA 94107
www.sdmagazine.com
- End forwarded message -
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, but then let's keep reduce(), which has this nice property.
-1
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The joy of coding Python should be in seeing short, concise, readable
classes that express a lot of action in a small amount of clear code --
not in reams
the connection. I believe the
problem is the firewall, but I'm not sure if it is related to the
install. The previous install (Python 2.3) worked fine.
http://www.python.org/2.4/bugs.html
--
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The joy of coding Python should
will no doubt agree with me: the semantics don't matter.
NEVER, NEVER access the same file object from multiple threads, unless
you're using a lock. And even using a lock is stupid.
--
Aahz ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) * http://www.pythoncraft.com/
The joy of coding Python should be in seeing
On Thu, Mar 17, 2005, Tim Peters wrote:
I think Aahz was on target here:
NEVER, NEVER access the same file object from multiple threads, unless
you're using a lock.
And here he went overboard:
And even using a lock is stupid.
ZODB's FileStorage is bristling with locks
On Wed, Mar 23, 2005, Herman Toothrot wrote:
Avast! Why be there builtins divmod and pow, when operators **, /, and %
should be good enough for ya? It runs counter to TOOWTDI, I be thinking.
Arr.
This is off-topic for python-dev. Please post to comp.lang.python
instead.
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Aahz ([EMAIL
than creating a new one?
(I don't have a strong opinion either way, but I'd like some reasoning;
Jack's approach at least doesn't break code.) Especially if the new
exception isn't public (in the builtins with other exceptions).
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readers (the bit that triggered this comment was
seeing the unified vs. context diffs thread so far down).
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The joy of coding Python should be in seeing short, concise, readable
classes that express a lot of action in a small
questions. Thank you.
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Aahz ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) * http://www.pythoncraft.com/
The joy of coding Python should be in seeing short, concise, readable
classes that express a lot of action in a small amount of clear code --
not in reams of trivial code that bores the reader to death
. To the extent that Python has an
antithesis, it would be either C++ or Perl. Ruby is antithetical to some
of Python's core ideology because it borrows from Perl, but Ruby is much
more similar to Python than Perl is.
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The joy
``for`` and ``if``, the resource block *should* have a
keyword.
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The joy of coding Python should be in seeing short, concise, readable
classes that express a lot of action in a small amount of clear code --
not in reams of trivial code that bores
did,
although it was related more to the precise mechanics of raising and
catching exceptions. Perhaps I'll submit a doc bug; I didn't find this
explained in _Learning Python_ or Nutshell...)
--
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It's 106 miles to Chicago. We
, blockLocals
return iterfaceType(interfaceName, bases, blockLocals)
IFoo = interface('IFoo'):
def isFoo(self): pass
Where does ``aBlock`` come from?
--
Aahz ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) * http://www.pythoncraft.com/
It's 106 miles to Chicago. We have a full tank
for these
constructs makes it easier to read the code. You'll soon start to gloss
over the ``with`` but it will be there as a marker for your subconscious.
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It's 106 miles to Chicago. We have a full tank of gas, a half-pack
whether your thunks are lexical (I haven't been
following the discussion closely). If it's not lexical, how do locals
get handled without cells?
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It's 106 miles to Chicago. We have a full tank of gas, a half-pack
be able to tell which
construct we're using at the beginning of the line.
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Aahz ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) * http://www.pythoncraft.com/
It's 106 miles to Chicago. We have a full tank of gas, a half-pack of
cigarettes, it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses. Hit
it?
opening(foo) as f:
# etc.
I'm still -1 for the same reason I mentioned earlier: function calls
spanning multiple lines are moderately common in Python code, and it's
hard to distinguish these cases because multi-line calls usually get
indented like blocks.
--
Aahz ([EMAIL PROTECTED
On Fri, Apr 29, 2005, Phillip J. Eby wrote:
At 10:42 AM 4/29/05 -0700, Aahz wrote:
On Fri, Apr 29, 2005, Guido van Rossum wrote:
[Phillip J. Eby]
Although I'd personally prefer a no-keyword approach:
synchronized(self):
with_file(foo) as f:
# etc.
I'd like
his opinion, this is
precisely why the non-keyword version will continue to receive -1 from
me. (As it happens, I agree with Guido, so if Guido wants to change,
I'll probably argue until I see good reason. ;-)
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It's 106
the options this way? ;-) I'm mainly
responding to deliver my vote against option 3; I don't care much about
the other possibilities.
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It's 106 miles to Chicago. We have a full tank of gas, a half-pack of
cigarettes
don't think that
it's *all* a PEP 310 influence on the examples.
Yes, that's why I've been pushing for with.
--
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It's 106 miles to Chicago. We have a full tank of gas, a half-pack of
cigarettes, it's dark, and we're wearing
of the exception class
concerned.
Sounds reasonable, but it should be equally easy to handle::
raise MyError, message
--
Aahz ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) * http://www.pythoncraft.com/
And if that makes me an elitist...I couldn't be happier. --JMS
of staving off responses from multiple
people: I don't think these should be double-underscore attributes. The
currently undocumented ``args`` attribute isn't double-underscore, and I
think that's precedent to be followed.
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.)
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And if that makes me an elitist...I couldn't be happier. --JMS
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that a mistake was made, let's fix it!
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And if that makes me an elitist...I couldn't be happier. --JMS
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about what we
should do. Overall, my sentiments are with Tim that we should fix this,
but my suspicion is that it probably doesn't matter much.
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The only problem with Microsoft is they just have no taste. --Steve Jobs
with every operation. It was a critical design
criterion for Python that this be legal::
x = Decimal('1.2')
y = Decimal('1.4')
x*y
Decimal(1.68)
IOW, constructing Decimal instances might be a bit painful, but *using*
them would be utterly simple.
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information, but I also encourage you to join
the Summer of Code mailing list:
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/summerofcode
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The only problem with Microsoft is they just have no taste. --Steve Jobs
to comp.lang.python.
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on python-dev, there's a broader spectrum on c.l.py.
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need, but there
are still a couple of details that I haven't been able to solve.
Hi Veronica,
python-dev is for future development of Python; for questions about
using Python, please go to comp.lang.python. Thanks.
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f
On Sat, Jun 18, 2005, Gustavo Niemeyer wrote:
PyPI seems to be out of space:
FYI, python-dev is not a good place to send messages like this. Please
use [EMAIL PROTECTED] (I've already notified the appropriate
parties.)
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it.
...and document and maintain it. That's always been the sticky part,
along with the requirement that this degrade gracefully when the
platform-specific code doesn't exist.
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f u cn rd ths, u cn gt a gd jb n nx prgrmmng
On Tue, Jun 28, 2005, lode leroy wrote:
I was trying to compile a python plugin (for gimp) using the MSYS
shell and the MINGW compiler.
python-dev is the wrong place for this question; please start with
comp.lang.python (or find another suitable place).
--
Aahz ([EMAIL PROTECTED
(and sorry for my english but it's not my mother tongue)
Welcome! Your English is just fine. If you haven't yet, take a look at
http://www.python.org/dev/
Pay particular attention to Why Develop Python? and Intro to
Development.
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2.2 -- but I'm always happy to see inconsistencies resolved)
I'll guess that Raymond will probably want 2.5 to have set.union_update()
get a PendingDeprecationWarning.
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post a patch. It passes the smell test of
not being horribly unPythonic, if that's what you want to know. Note
that you're likely to be required to add a new function with this
feature, but that can be argued later.
--
Aahz ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) * http://www.pythoncraft.com/
f u cn
rounding mode in the
Decimal docs? Or the sprints burned my head?
My suspicion is that someone at some point thought that Cowlishaw was
sufficient; we probably should write some base-level docs that explain
the Python mechanisms and refer to Cowlishaw for details.
--
Aahz ([EMAIL PROTECTED
. How about this for a change?
class grouping:
def __init__(self, .x, .y, .z):
pass
This is off-topic for python-dev. Please take it to comp.lang.python.
(It's not immediately obvious that this is off-topic, I know, but please
take my word for it.)
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that this isn't going to be a real PEP any time soon, please
restrict the discussion to comp.lang.python. Thanks for your help
keeping python-dev clutter-free. ;-)
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!
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as, xrange objects are iterable.
How about decimal.Context() objects are managed resources or ...have
guarded scopes? (I'm not terribly wild about either, but they are
fairly simple and direct.)
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f u cn rd ths, u cn gt a gd jb n
Nothing to say, just keep up the good work! I hope the triple-team
approach is still working well.
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On Tue, Jul 05, 2005, Martin v. L?wis wrote:
Aahz wrote:
Martin removed the attribution here:
I was trying to compile a python plugin (for gimp) using the MSYS
shell and the MINGW compiler.
python-dev is the wrong place for this question
Actually, it isn't - he is really asking what
:) was available.
That's what I use try/except for. ;-)
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want to resend.
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On Sun, Jul 24, 2005, Chuck Robey wrote:
I'm trying to get Python installed on a Zaurus, running OpenBSD.
While python-dev can be a good place to get questions like this
answered, many more people read comp.lang.python, and you should ask
there, too.
--
Aahz ([EMAIL PROTECTED
with urls and in those cases, long
urls can suck. But we may not do a ton of that with the Python project,
and besides it might not be important enough to split the directories.
Why can't you write a Python script to generate the URLs? 0.3 wink
--
Aahz ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) * http
structure:
Based on skimming (not close examination): +1
We can probably quibble about bits, but I agree that a Grand Restructure
should be avoided.
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The way to build large Python applications is to componentize and
loosely
changes, I do think the basic
spirit of it is correct.
My take is that for Python 3.0, backwards compatibility is no longer a
critical priority -- but any breakage still needs to be argued for and
balanced. We want to avoid unnecessary breakage.
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.
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is currently one of the
more unPythonic modules. If you're feeling a lot of energy about this,
rewriting pdb might be more productive.
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The way to build large Python applications is to componentize and
loosely-couple the hell
.
The impression I got from Alex Martelli is that it's not particularly
straightforward. (Google apparently uses Perforce.)
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The way to build large Python applications is to componentize and
loosely-couple the hell out
incentive to consider Perforce over Subversion just because of that
issue.
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The way to build large Python applications is to componentize and
loosely-couple the hell out of everything
to the name of an MS
product.
I can compromise to this if others prefer this alternative. Anybody
else have an opinion?
Googling for windowserror python produces 800 hits. So yes, it does
seem to be widely used. I'm -0 on renaming; +1 on leaving things as-is.
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Aahz ([EMAIL PROTECTED
a
new Process PEP type. For more information, please see PEP 1
(http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0001.html) -- the type of which has
also been changed to Process.
Go ahead and make PEP 6 a Process PEP.
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The way to build
again; are you saying that we should have a host named
pythondev.python.org? I'm not sure that's necessary.
No, pythondev is simply an SSH alias for dinsdale -- the server knows
nothing about it. I don't quite understand the User pythondev line,
though -- I think that's a mistake.
--
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On Mon, Aug 22, 2005, Martin v. L?wis wrote:
Aahz wrote:
Barry:
Martin:
Host pythondev
Hostname dinsdale.python.org
User pythondev
IdentityFile ~/.ssh/pythondev
I'm confused again; are you saying that we should have a host named
pythondev.python.org? I'm not sure that's necessary
. Is my memory wrong?
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-- python-dev is *NOT* just for CPython. (It's
similar to questions about porting.) As long as people ask questions of
the appropriate level, that is.
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The way to build large Python applications is to componentize and
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*obvious* name.
It's at least as obvious as translate(). shrug
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code samples.
I'm sure there are plenty more if these in the archives.
Nice! Also a pointer to the Zen of Python.
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The way to build large Python applications is to componentize and
loosely-couple the hell out
already do
__metaclass__ = type
within each module
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The way to build large Python applications is to componentize and
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to putting a
function def inside a loop rather than outside?
This question is about using Python, not improving/fixing Python; please
use comp.lang.python (python-list) for these kinds of questions and do
not cc python-dev.
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that my
current company's code is littered with constructs like yours. So I have
to say that it would break too much code.
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The way to build large Python applications is to componentize and
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release candidate. OTOH,
doing a brownbag 2.4.3 won't kill us, and few people will use a release
candidate instead of waiting. Still your call.
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The way to build large Python applications is to componentize and
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will read better with the
ternary looking cluttered.
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to comp.lang.python.
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. But it's certainly true that
threading (and concurrency) in general is mind-numbingly complex.
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If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait
until you hire an amateur. --Red Adair
deprecate ``thread`` by renaming it to ``_thread``).
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If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait
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On Wed, Oct 12, 2005, Michael Chermside wrote:
Guido says:
Aahz writes:
(Python 3.0 should deprecate ``thread`` by renaming it to ``_thread``).
+1. (We could even start doing this before 3.0.)
Before 3.0, let's deprecate it by listing it in the Deprecated modules
section within
On Wed, Oct 12, 2005, Guido van Rossum wrote:
On 10/12/05, Aahz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Note carefully the deprecation in quotes. It's not going to be
literally deprecated, only renamed, similar to the way _socket and
socket work together. We could also rename to _threading, but I prefer
-consumer
objects. It makes sense for a thread to have an inbox. I'm not so
sure about an outbox.)
If you look at my thread tutorial, the spider thread pool uses a
single-producer, multiple-consumer queue to feed URLs to the retrieving
threads.
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have
is that it's going to be a little unwieldy to explain, but people who
create properties really ought to understand Python well enough to deal
with it.
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If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job
raises, and I
decided there was no point trying to translate it.
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this nicely? Is there an
easy form that allows me to do this?
This should go on comp.lang.python. Thanks.
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Aahz ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) * http://www.pythoncraft.com/
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,
redraw. Tune that 10 up/down to alter responsiveness characteristics.
...and that's exactly what my sample threaded GUI application does.
Can we please move this thread to comp.lang.python?
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Aahz ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) * http://www.pythoncraft.com/
If you think it's expensive
?
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Aahz ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) * http://www.pythoncraft.com/
If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait
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not interested in.
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If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait
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While cleaning up some old CDs, I discovered that I had received some
backups of the CVS repository. Should we repeat the exercise for SVN?
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Don't listen to schmucks on USENET when making legal decisions. Hire
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the ball and moving it forward.)
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Aahz ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) * http://www.pythoncraft.com/
Don't listen to schmucks on USENET when making legal decisions. Hire
yourself a competent schmuck. --USENET schmuck (aka Robert Kern)
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to be documented.)
Please submit a doc patch to SF (or even just a bug report if you don't
have time). The patch may be plain text or reST; no need for Latex.
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Aahz ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) * http://www.pythoncraft.com/
Don't listen to schmucks on USENET when making legal decisions. Hire
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