On 11/17/05, Walter Dörwald [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Am 17.11.2005 um 22:03 schrieb Guido van Rossum:
On 11/17/05, Walter Dörwald [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Currently StringIO.StringIO and cStringIO.StringIO behave differently
when iterating a closed stream:
s = StringIO.StringIO(foo
). But I propose to leave the choice of exception reform for Python
3000.
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, Negative size not allowed)
IOError: [Errno 22] Negative size not allowed
s = cStringIO.StringIO()
s.truncate(-42)
Well, what does a regular file say in this case?
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turkey :-) in a place where I can't care about email. I will be back
here on Monday Nov 28.
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be rewritten more efficiently. There are plenty of
regex experts on c.l.py.
Unless you have a multi-CPU box, the performance of your app isn't
going to improve by releasing the GIL -- it only affects the
responsiveness of other threads.
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right,
Ben.) I'm +1 on accepting his patches, *provided* as always they pass
muster in terms of general Python development standards. (Jeff Epler's
comments should be taken to heart.)
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it could break existing code.
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staggering number of memory allocation strategies sounds like
a bad idea.
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On 11/28/05, Martin v. Löwis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Guido van Rossum wrote:
Perhaps the following compromise can be made: the PSF accepts patches
from reputable platform maintainers. (Of course, like all
contributions, they must be of high quality and not break anything,
etc., before
On 11/28/05, Jeremy Hylton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On 11/28/05, Guido van Rossum [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On 11/18/05, Neil Schemenauer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Perhaps we should use the memory management technique that the rest
of Python uses: reference counting. I don't see why
-- if you're making tree
transformations you don't want accidental sharing to cause unexpected
side effects.
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all for exceptions becoming new-style in 2.5.)
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On 12/11/05, Steven Bethard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On 12/11/05, Guido van Rossum [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I know about the fear of accidental reuse of class names, but I don't
find it a compelling argument.
FWIW, I know I currently have a number of classes that are potentially
hazardous
provides the benefits of implicit
name mangling without it's drawbacks.
I half agree. I've seen many classes overuse __private. But that's a
separate issue from not having the feature at all; you might as well
argue against private in Java or C++.
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inheritance.
BTW let me note that inheritance is overused. People should get used
to containment patterns (e.g. facade, delegate etc.) in favor of
inheritance patterns.
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, and ignore
(since I/O devices are known to be fallible). The ValueError (at least
in this case) means there's a logic bug in your program -- you're
trying to use a file that you've already closed. Very important
distinction!
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it).
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more
data types which isn't necessarily offset by the advantage.
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to simplify the text, while making it
(somewhat) more prescriptive.
Thanks, Barry! I've made another pass and added a couple more tweaks,
hopefully non-controversial.
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On 12/14/05, Barry Warsaw [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Wed, 2005-12-14 at 14:10 -0800, Guido van Rossum wrote:
Thanks, Barry! I've made another pass and added a couple more tweaks,
hopefully non-controversial.
Cool thanks Guido. I fixed a couple of small typos.
One question: you made
until the time limit is up as well. Any
takers?
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be listed, too.
I think that's more proper for a separate PEP -- the style guide
shouldn't have to be updated each time something else is deprecated.
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-words are just as
likely to accidentally conflict with variable or function names, your
personal habits notwithstanding.
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this from Java -- maybe from C++?).
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never used). We might provide a
quit or exit command using a more sophisticated mechanism. But there
are always costs (e.g. the violation of the primciple that typing a
name shows its repr()).
In the mean time I'm a strong believer in it ain't broke so don't fix it here.
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On 12/29/05, Aahz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Wed, Dec 28, 2005, Guido van Rossum wrote:
In the mean time I'm a strong believer in it ain't broke so don't fix
it here.
Does that also include my suggestion about improving the startup message?
Nobody reads that; plus it looks like it's
, sequences therefore cannot use the full
address space, and are restricted to 2**31 elements. This PEP proposes
to change this, introducing a platform-specific index type
Py_ssize_t. An implementation of the proposed change is in
http://svn.python.org/projects/python/branches/ssize_t.
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it matters:
create a new dct or set from the old one automatically creates one of
the right size. E.g.
s = set(s)
replaces the set s (which may once have had 1M items and now has
nearly 1M empty slots) by one with the optimal number of slots.
Ditto for dicts:
d = dict(d)
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will have to be released quickly.
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this discussion to comp.lang.python.
Yes please. This won't change.
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about the relative ordering of
*args and **kwds. In particular, I think we should be allowed to write
f(1, 2, 3, *args, x=1, y=2, **kwds) # also without **kwds
and perhaps also
f(1, 2, 3, *args, 4, 5, 6)
(though I'm less interested in supporting the latter).
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and has tried to interest me in providing
feedback about their compiler (and also their alternative to
valgrind). I'll contact him.
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and again or elsewhere on the web ( e.g. in Bruce Eckels blog on
Artima )?
Perhaps because people don't understand it?
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is not appropriate for python-dev. Please use
comp.lang.python (or python-list).
But for sure, Tkinter is still being maintained by the Python
developers (mainly MvL I believe). If it appears stagnant that's
probably because Tcl/Tk itself isn't changing much.
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On 1/10/06, Fredrik Lundh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Guido van Rossum wrote:
But for sure, Tkinter is still being maintained by the Python
developers (mainly MvL I believe). If it appears stagnant that's
probably because Tcl/Tk itself isn't changing much.
afaict, Tcl/Tk 8.5 isn't moving
and Python 3? Maybe you,
Larry and whoever the Tcl/Tk master is these days (still Ousterhout?) could
agree to release all three on the same day. wink
Or we could have another bake-off and pie-throwing contest. :-)
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this to count against including ctypes; but I do want
it to be dealt with somehow!
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On 1/10/06, Delaney, Timothy (Tim) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Guido van Rossum wrote:
On 1/10/06, Thomas Heller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I would like to suggest to include ctypes into core Python, starting
with the 2.5 release.
On the one hand I agree that this is a useful module
to the 'uncrashable python' idea :)
I'm not saying it's uncrashable. I'm saying that if you crash it, it's
a bug unless proven harebrained.
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in the middle where
you may or may not get a crash depending on random other stuff that is
going on, and the only way to know is to try. It's easy enough to code
a loop that tries higher and higher values until it finds a crash.
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their own identities?
I think that's unnecessary, and not any more effective than what we
already do -- ask for a signed contributor form. Someone who signs
that form Tim Peters won't be stopped by a clause asking them to use
their real name, *really*.
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other posters, I suspect that the best way of detecting numbers
might be some other kind of test, not necessarily a call to
isinstance().
It would also help to explain the user case more. (I've been bitten
doesn't convey a lot of information. :-)
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; they have many special
properties and purposes.
Also note that basestring was introduced in 2.3, a whole release
*after* inheritance from str was made possible.
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e.g. to the Numeric Python folks, who like to implement
their own integral types but are suffering from that their integers
aren't usable everywhere.
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about rounding/truncating. I talked to some Numeric folks and
they understand and agree.
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they
see str() and int() as each other's opposites, not having seen other
uses of either (especially str()).
Given the amount of disagreement on this issue and my own lackluster
interest I don't want to pronounce str(i, base) to be the right
solution. Sorry!
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? What would %b print?
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that RMS is an asshole now? Bah.
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not yet.
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is needed, if the problem is important enough to be solved.
Thoughts?
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On 1/20/06, Phillip J. Eby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
At 10:17 AM 01/20/2006 -0800, Guido van Rossum wrote:
The discussion about PEP 343 reminds me of the following. Bram Cohen
pointed out in private email that, before PEP 342, there wasn't a big
need for a shortcut to pass control to a sub
always
relevant (or is dynamic, or is a huge expression); and square brackets
are the standard way in computer manuals to indicate optional parts of
syntax.
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still need to do thorough testing -- like the rest
of the docs, these annotations can't be 100% perfect.)
As far as noise goes, new in X is minor compared to all the stuff
that's documented that the average user never needs... :-)
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implement the formatter for @since yet. It should simply be
an addition to the text paragraph that precedes it, like in the
regular docs.
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across versions.
(Although I can also see the point of starting afresh for each release
-- at some point the sheer amount of (possibly outdated) user comments
reduces their usefulness.
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are still importable in 2.4 (I
don't have a 2.5 handy here at Google, and my home machine seems
inaccessible). ISTM these last three can safely be dropped now.
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.
I can't guarantee that I'll be mentoring you, but if you end up using
Python in Mountain View, I'm sure we'll be interacting quite a bit!
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?
What would break if we rewrote the save functionality to produce a
predictable order?
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just Michael doesn't really help. I'm too
old fogey to get used to using IRC handles to refer to people; I can
never keep the mapping in my head.)
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, is fine.
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Guido van Rossum wrote:
Aha. I am beginning to understand. When people say ConfigParser is
hopeless they mean .INI files are hopeless. I happen to disagree.
(There's also a meme that says that every aspect of an app should be
configurable. I disagree with that too. As Joel Spolski points
be updated?
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accept this fine.
Perhaps the AST tree enforces stricter syntax for what can precede a
future statement? I think this should be fixed.
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error (which I think is wrong too),
could this be solved by *requiring* the argument to be a string? (Or
some other data type, but that's probably overkill.)
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= _PyLong_AsScaledDouble(vv, e);
first. That isn't a useful warning.
But how can the compiler know that it is an output-only argument?
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After so many attempts to come up with an alternative for lambda,
perhaps we should admit defeat. I've not had the time to follow the
most recent rounds, but I propose that we keep lambda, so as to stop
wasting everybody's talent and time on an impossible quest.
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),
or do you include the authors of the 17 files I count under some prefix/Lib
that have
isinstance(something, int) in them?
Josiah is correct, and those modules all have bugs.
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of an
object. The next most likely solution is to make long a subclass of
int, or perhaps to make int an abstract base class with two
subclasses, short and long.
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is to add parentheses
around the arguments, so you'd write lambda(x, y): x**y instead of
lambda x, y: x**y.
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. I never even considered making this illegal. :-)
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speakers).
Right. As a non-native speaker I can confirm that for English
learners, cue is a bit mysterious at first while hint is obvious.
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Python into an expression
language. Change the use of parentheses a bit, and... voila, Lisp! :-)
duck
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This document is placed in the public domain
If you agree with the above comments, please send me an updated
version of the PEP and I'll check it in over the old one, and approve
it. Then just use SF to submit the patch etc.
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? ceval.c uses this macro only in the slice
processing code. I don't particularly care what it's called...
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On 2/9/06, Martin v. Löwis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
COM really solves all problems people might have on Windows.
Taken deliberately out of context, that sounds rather like a claim
even Microsoft itself wouldn't make. :-)
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confusing
optional parameter. And you won't have to wait for Python 2.5.
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exception if the
inputs produced an approximated result. I'd rather be made aware of
this problem on the first run. Then I can decide whether to use int()
or int(round()) or whatever other appropriate conversion.
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already asked
you). There's some text somewhere in the guidelines for python
developers on when to know when to give up. Read it. :-)
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the entire PEP directory).
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, but if
nobody suggests something better then we should just go with
__index__.
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if not randomly.
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string literals to
PyArg_ParseTupleAndKeywords's kws argument).
Is it too late to revert this one?
Is there another way to make C++ programmers happy (e.g. my having a
macro that expands to const when compiled with C++ but vanishes when
compiled with C?)
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be appropriate to start a
new topic to discuss specific PEPs; a response to this thread
referencing the new thread would be appropriate.
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library. The web-sig has been discussing additional things that might
be proposed for addition but I believe there's no consensus -- in any
case we ought to be conservative.
- setuplib? Wouldn't it make sense to add this to the 2.5 stdlib?
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On 2/10/06, Thomas Wouters [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Fri, Feb 10, 2006 at 11:06:24PM +0100, M.-A. Lemburg wrote:
Guido van Rossum wrote:
PEP 328: Absolute/Relative Imports
Yes, please.
+0 for adding relative imports. -1 for raising errors for
in-package relative imports using
with the
feature but my own feeling is that this doesn't need a PEP and Barry
can Just Do It.
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