Re: [Ql-Users] Copyright

[Rich Mellor (RWAP)]

 

> On July 9, 2016 at 5:41 PM Lee Privett  wrote:
>
>
> There is an interesting bit on copyright that's list four things relating
> to Software. One covers the code as literary, the other covers the output
> from code as far as I can ascertain.
>
> The code is a literary work
> The on-screen display could be an artistic work
> The soundtracks are musical works
> Moving images can be protected as a film and so on
>
> It goes on to cover non-literal copying of software, full article here.
> http://www.inbrief.co.uk/intellectual-property/copyright-protection-for-software/
>
> For me there is no question, it's copyrighted unless there evidence that is
> not. Qliberator is a case in point, it's copyright protected until both
> authors state it can be public domain.
>
> Now it is interesting for a discussion perspective about non-literal
> copying if a protected programme is hacked and the software no longer has
> its anti copying protection then effectively it's not the same software
> anymore.
>

I am fairly certain that just bypassing the copy protection would fail the
substantial parts test (and any of hte other tests) as it would be easy to prove
on a byte by byte comparison that there were only very limited changes to the
original code.
 
Arguably it would be harder to prove that some of my MKII software breached
copyright under these rules (had I not originally obtained permission) - because
the original code can no longer easily be proven - eg, substantial changes to
D-Day and War In the East, which were originally SuperBASIC programs, then I
re-wrote large sections in native machine code, added a large amount of my own
code and then compiled them in Turbo - although here there is the issue of
access to sources could easily be proven, as the sources (SuperBASIC) were
provided in the originals.  I am not sure whether Nemesis and possibly some of
the other Talent adventures would be viewed in this light, as they were written
in Quill, so had to be de-compiled, changed and then re-compiled as a
Q-liberated program - leaving very little to compare apart from the actual text
on screen.

That said, both myself and Richard Alexander (when my programs were published by
CGH Services) always felt that it was only fair to pay royalties on sales to the
original copyright holders, or to offer my version as an upgrade to people who
proved they had the original.
 
 
Rich Mellor
RWAP Software
www.rwapsoftware.co.uk
www.sellmyretro.com
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[Ql-Users] Software Preservation Project - Tasks

[Michael Bulford]

On Thursday 7 July 2016, 21:29:04, Rich Mellor (RWAP) wrote :


> Shirley Butler (C-Fix program for use with SuperBASIC C-Port) - not sure if 
> she
> had any more involvement in C-Port.  I also emailed Dave Walker, but no 
> response
> from either

Hi Rich,
I also wrote to Shirley, but had no response.  This morning, I tried ringing 
her on the number she gave in the C-Fix user manual from 1992, but this was 
unobtainable.  Are you still in contact with Freddy Vaccha?  Perhaps he might 
know something.  
What I would like to do is to get a copy of the source SuperBASIC code for both 
C-Port and C-Fix.  The idea being to update them so that they can work fully 
with modern day emulators, and also to cure some bugs and generally improve 
them.   I have actually managed to use C-Port with some success.  Recently I 
have C-Ported a 58k SBASIC program into Cee without any problems.  I did of 
course have to keep on changing the code until it finally Cported.  The 
resulting Cee code certainly needed some tinkering with before it would C68 
compile.  The program was a version of the Travelling Salesman program, which I 
have been working on with Steve Poole.  In my opinion, C-Port is far better 
than its reputation, but is certainly in need of some improvement.  The C-Fix 
addition is very useful, however it is not complete.  The numeric array bases 
have not been treated.
If however the source is unavailable, then how about reverse engineering?Derek, 
have you thought any more about your idea of reverse engineering Turbo?  I 
would be willing to work with you jointly on this.  I am well acquainted with 
the Turbo parser and understand how it works.  If you can regenerate the 
pseudo-code for C-Port, I am sure I could regenerate the SuperBASIC code from 
there.  What we could end up with is a SuperBASIC program that perhaps works, 
but would be totally unreadable, since we would not know the original variable 
names used.  We would just have to guess at how it works.  But this would be a 
start.  This may take some while to complete, but the more time spent on it, 
the better it would become.
About the legal aspect, I would agree this may be illegal - if we go by the 
letter of the law.  But if we go by the spirit of the law, this may be another 
matter.  We would be producing something that would be of benefit to the whole 
QL community.  I am certain the authors of Turbo / Cport / C-Fix would welcome 
our contributions.
We may not have to go down this road.  Who knows - perhaps Freddy Vaccha can 
come up with the goods - and supply the SuperBASIC sources.  If anybody knows 
him, can you please contact him and ask.
Michael






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Re: [Ql-Users] Fw: PCB Update

[Dilwyn Jones]

Apologies, I left the old link in. Please try again, it should work now.

Dilwyn

-Original Message- 
From: de...@q40.de

Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2016 8:54 PM
To: ql-us...@q-v-d.com
Subject: Re: [Ql-Users] Fw: PCB Update

Hi Dilwyn,

I have downloaded the new inversion of Learcad. The web page says version 
7.40, but the file downloaded is version 7.37.


Regards

DerekOn 9 Jul 2016 18:35, Dilwyn Jones  wrote:


Version 7.40 of Malcolm Lear's PCB Design software is now available free 
from my website.


The author says:

"Many changes and bug fixes since last release. Most important improvement 
is through hole finger pads that can support slots. Also now supports 
filled polygon pads thus allowing any shape or rotation."


Download it from the Graphics page on my website: 
http://www.dilwyn.me.uk/graphics/index.html


Dilwyn.


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[Ql-Users] QL Forum online chat tonight

[Dilwyn Jones]

We're on the QL Forum online chat once more tonight and would be pleased if any 
of you would like to join us during the evening to discuss anything vaguely QL 
related (politics, religion, cars, film, tv, etc also all tolerated in small 
doses!)

To join us, just go onto www.qlforum.co.uk/mibbit.php  and enter your name or 
nickname when asked and join in the fun. 

Alternatively, members can log onto the forum and click on the Online Chat link.

Dilwyn Jones


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Re: [Ql-Users] Copyright

[Lee Privett]

There is an interesting bit on copyright that's list four things relating
to Software. One covers the code as literary, the other covers the output
from code as far as I can ascertain.

The code is a literary work
The on-screen display could be an artistic work
The soundtracks are musical works
Moving images can be protected as a film and so on

It goes on to cover non-literal copying of software, full article here.
http://www.inbrief.co.uk/intellectual-property/copyright-protection-for-software/

For me there is no question, it's copyrighted unless there evidence that is
not. Qliberator is a case in point, it's copyright protected until both
authors state it can be public domain.

Now it is interesting for a discussion perspective about non-literal
copying if a protected programme is hacked and the software no longer has
its anti copying protection then effectively it's not the same software
anymore.


On Sat, 9 Jul 2016 at 12:51, Colin McKay 
wrote:

> When a member of the Bristol Group, I remember being told that any program
> lodged in the QL system automatically became public domain. Can that be
> confirmed?
>
> Whilst searching the web, one site virtually stated that anything a person
> produces is automatically subject to copyright. Another site stated that
> copyrights can be registered. Do any of the QL programs expressly claim
> copyright? Compare the situation with that of books, many display the word
> 'copyright' on an introductory page.
>
> Entering the sordid topic of coin, it is difficult to imagine that it would
> profit any originator of a QL program to seek recompense from the courts
> for
> infringement of copyright. Consider the value of past sales, future
> possible
> sales, and legal costs. The case would have to be based on the miss-selling
> of a number of programs to create a sufficiently large claim.
>
> I have used Text87 almost since its availability. In those far back days I
> spoke to a member of the firm which produced it, and he explained some of
> its facilities. Later my memory failed, and I could not reconstruct the
> steps from the manual. From this, I suggest that whilst the program is very
> good, its value is diminished from the fact that its manual is seriously
> deficient. I suspect that situation could exist for many QL programs. They
> are written by insiders for the use of insiders.
>
> As regards the QL dying, to me the main factor for this is the inability of
> the QL community to create a system of durable software which would enable
> the purchaser of a machine (emulator) to instantly have a day-to-day
> coherent usable collection of programs not prone to enthusiasts
> ideosyncrasies.
>
> Colin
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Ql-Users [mailto:ql-users-boun...@lists.q-v-d.com] On Behalf Of
> ql-users-requ...@lists.q-v-d.com
> Sent: 09 July 2016 10:39
> To: ql-users@lists.q-v-d.com
> Subject: Ql-Users Digest, Vol 149, Issue 17
>
> Send Ql-Users mailing list submissions to
> ql-users@lists.q-v-d.com
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://lists.q-v-d.com/listinfo.cgi/ql-users-q-v-d.com
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> ql-users-requ...@lists.q-v-d.com
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> ql-users-ow...@lists.q-v-d.com
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than
> "Re: Contents of Ql-Users digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>1. Re: Withdrawal of my personal SoftwarePreservation
> Project
>   (Norman Dunbar)
>2. Re: Withdrawal of my  personalSoftware
> Preservation
> Project
>   (Norman Dunbar)
>3. Re: Withdrawal of my personal Software Preservation Project
>   (Derek Stewart)
>4. Re: Withdrawal of my personal Software Preservation   Project
>   (Richard Howe)
>
>
> --
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2016 21:09:15 +0100
> From: Norman Dunbar 
> To: ql-us...@q-v-d.com
> Subject: Re: [Ql-Users] Withdrawal of my personal   Software
> PreservationProject
> Message-ID: <9e7f06d5-7bb9-400c-a399-ad5524b62...@dunbar-it.co.uk>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> Still a verb. It's an action.
>
> http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/infringe
>
> I wish I could get out of the sun! But it's too sunny and way to hot for a
> Jock like me!
>
>
> Cheers,
> Norm.
> --
> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
>
> --
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2016 21:11:35 +0100
> From: Norman Dunbar 
> To: ql-us...@q-v-d.com
> Subject: Re: [Ql-Users] Withdrawal of mypersonalSoftware
> PreservationProject
> Message-ID: <3860c8a4-f79d-4470-bc70-67312f05c...@dunbar-it.co.uk>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Re: [Ql-Users] Copyright

[Rich Mellor (RWAP)]

 

> On July 9, 2016 at 4:26 PM Wolf  wrote:
>
>
> Hi,
>
>
> > Entering the sordid topic of coin, it is difficult to imagine that it would
> > profit any originator of a QL program to seek recompense from the courts for
> > infringement of copyright. Consider the value of past sales, future possible
> > sales, and legal costs. The case would have to be based on the miss-selling
> > of a number of programs to create a sufficiently large claim.
>
> Think:
>
> - statutory damages
> - punitive damages
>
> depending on where you sue...
>
> OK, 'nuff said on that subject.
> Wolfgang
> ___
> QL-Users Mailing List
 
 
Copyright exists as soon as someone creates an item.  They are the owner of the
rights to that item - be it a physical item, some program code, a painting or
even a turn of phrase (this is why it has been generally referred to in
legislation as intellectual property).
 
Many people originally proved copyright by posting a copy of an item to
themselves, so that it is dated by a third party in a sealed envelope - just in
case they ever needed to prove that they created the item before someone else.
 
There used to be some countries which demanded registration of copyright but
since countries signed up to the Berne convention, they all agreed to do away
with this, but most countries retain the ability to voluntarily register
copyright if you wish (similar to posting a copy to yourself).
 
As for ever bringing court action - most countries will actually prosecute the
person on your behalf, as it is seen as a criminal offence under international
law; so there is no question of cost for the copyright holder.

Does QL software have copyright messages?  The answer is a resounding YES - out
of all the stuff I have preserved, there is probably less than 5% which has no
statement in the code as to copyright, or who wrote the program.  It is
generally clearly stipulated in the boot program, loading screen, manual or the
code itself.

As to what you do with the stuff which has nothing to indicate copyright - who
knows what the intention of the author was  It could have been donated to
the Quanta library, in which case, the terms of their constitution stipulate
that the library was available to members only.  It could have been a program
which appeared in QL World / QL User - which paid for the program listings, so
the rights may well have been transferred to the magazine publisher (all
depending on the terms of the submission and who the publisher was at the time).
 
 
Rich Mellor
RWAP Software
www.rwapsoftware.co.uk
www.sellmyretro.com
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Re: [Ql-Users] Copyright

[Wolf]

Hi Colin,


When a member of the Bristol Group, I remember being told that any program
lodged in the QL system automatically became public domain. Can that be
confirmed?



No it can't.

Very broadly speaking,  if someone writes a piece of software, then 
someone has a copyright to it - automatically.



(and, yes I'm aware that there are hems and haws and provided this and 
maybe that with the above sentence, but as a general statement it is true.)


WOlfgang
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Re: [Ql-Users] Copyright

[Dilwyn Jones]

When a member of the Bristol Group, I remember being told that any program
lodged in the QL system automatically became public domain. Can that be
confirmed?
Define "QL system"? Don't understand that, unless what they meant was that 
as soon as you made a program available in some way, widespread piracy meant 
it was inevitable that it would quickly become commonly copied by one and 
all.


Not a remark about the legal situation, but a scenario which you could 
perhaps see happening in practice.


Dilwyn 




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Re: [Ql-Users] Copyright

[Ralf Reköndt]

Yes, why Fred Toussi does not make this program freeware and why he does not 
make the way public, how T87 saves its documents...


I will never understand. Noone sells it today, nor does anyone develops 
driver for it. Is this the way? Surely not.


Cheers...Ralf

- Original Message - 
From: "Colin McKay" 

I have used Text87 almost since its availability. In those far back days I
spoke to a member of the firm which produced it, and he explained some of
its facilities. Later my memory failed, and I could not reconstruct the
steps from the manual. From this, I suggest that whilst the program is 
very

good, its value is diminished from the fact that its manual is seriously
deficient. I suspect that situation could exist for many QL programs. They
are written by insiders for the use of insiders. 


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Re: [Ql-Users] Copyright

[Peter Graf]

Colin McKay wrote:

> As regards the QL dying, to me the main factor for this is the inability of
> the QL community to create a system of durable software which would enable
> the purchaser of a machine (emulator) to instantly have a day-to-day
> coherent usable collection of programs not prone to enthusiasts
> ideosyncrasies.

For me the main factor is: Who is writing QL software at all?

Peter

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Re: [Ql-Users] Withdrawal of my personal Software Preservation Project

[Tobias Fröschle]

What the whole thing boils down to is probably:

Do I care if someone is blocking my driveway?
Do I care if someone is blocking my neighbor's driveway?
Do I care if someone is blocking my neighbor's driveway that hasn't been used 
by them for 25 years?

In all but the first case, I don't - It's none of my business. And in the last 
case I'd find it a bit ridiculous if I did.

Tobias
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[Ql-Users] Copyright

[Colin McKay]

When a member of the Bristol Group, I remember being told that any program
lodged in the QL system automatically became public domain. Can that be
confirmed?

Whilst searching the web, one site virtually stated that anything a person
produces is automatically subject to copyright. Another site stated that
copyrights can be registered. Do any of the QL programs expressly claim
copyright? Compare the situation with that of books, many display the word
'copyright' on an introductory page.

Entering the sordid topic of coin, it is difficult to imagine that it would
profit any originator of a QL program to seek recompense from the courts for
infringement of copyright. Consider the value of past sales, future possible
sales, and legal costs. The case would have to be based on the miss-selling
of a number of programs to create a sufficiently large claim.

I have used Text87 almost since its availability. In those far back days I
spoke to a member of the firm which produced it, and he explained some of
its facilities. Later my memory failed, and I could not reconstruct the
steps from the manual. From this, I suggest that whilst the program is very
good, its value is diminished from the fact that its manual is seriously
deficient. I suspect that situation could exist for many QL programs. They
are written by insiders for the use of insiders.

As regards the QL dying, to me the main factor for this is the inability of
the QL community to create a system of durable software which would enable
the purchaser of a machine (emulator) to instantly have a day-to-day
coherent usable collection of programs not prone to enthusiasts
ideosyncrasies.

Colin



-Original Message-
From: Ql-Users [mailto:ql-users-boun...@lists.q-v-d.com] On Behalf Of
ql-users-requ...@lists.q-v-d.com
Sent: 09 July 2016 10:39
To: ql-users@lists.q-v-d.com
Subject: Ql-Users Digest, Vol 149, Issue 17

Send Ql-Users mailing list submissions to
ql-users@lists.q-v-d.com

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://lists.q-v-d.com/listinfo.cgi/ql-users-q-v-d.com
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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You can reach the person managing the list at
ql-users-ow...@lists.q-v-d.com

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than
"Re: Contents of Ql-Users digest..."


Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Withdrawal of my personal SoftwarePreservation
Project
  (Norman Dunbar)
   2. Re: Withdrawal of my  personalSoftwarePreservation
Project
  (Norman Dunbar)
   3. Re: Withdrawal of my personal Software Preservation Project
  (Derek Stewart)
   4. Re: Withdrawal of my personal Software Preservation   Project
  (Richard Howe)


--

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2016 21:09:15 +0100
From: Norman Dunbar 
To: ql-us...@q-v-d.com
Subject: Re: [Ql-Users] Withdrawal of my personal   Software
PreservationProject
Message-ID: <9e7f06d5-7bb9-400c-a399-ad5524b62...@dunbar-it.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Still a verb. It's an action.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/infringe

I wish I could get out of the sun! But it's too sunny and way to hot for a
Jock like me!


Cheers,
Norm.
--
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

--

Message: 2
Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2016 21:11:35 +0100
From: Norman Dunbar 
To: ql-us...@q-v-d.com
Subject: Re: [Ql-Users] Withdrawal of mypersonalSoftware
PreservationProject
Message-ID: <3860c8a4-f79d-4470-bc70-67312f05c...@dunbar-it.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Whoops!

To infringe, verb. 
An infringement noun. 
Apologies.

Cheers,
Norm.


--
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

--

Message: 3
Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2016 08:41:13 +0100
From: Derek Stewart 
To: ql-us...@q-v-d.com
Subject: Re: [Ql-Users] Withdrawal of my personal Software
Preservation Project
Message-ID: <5780aa99.9000...@q40.de>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed

Hi Richard,

I bought a copy of Master Spy in 1989 from TK Computaware, aftwer a review
in QL Wolrd.

I must say that Master Spy was one of best QL software I have ever had. 
I am sorry for not buying it direct from you.

Regards,

Derek

On 07/07/16 16:16, Richard Howe wrote:
> Hi
>
> I don't often reply in the forum but I do watch it, and this thread 
> caught my attention.
>
> Issues:
>   1.  Integrity.
>   2.  Letting go of personal attacks by trolls, and the trolls 
> themselves.
>   3.  Copyright.
>
> 1.  Integrity.
> Those who appreciate the value of copyright do so because it is 
> 'right' to morally and financially support those who give energy to 
> projects that interest 

Re: [Ql-Users] Master Spy

[derek]

Hi Richard,

Do you still write any software these days?

Regards

Derek
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Re: [Ql-Users] Withdrawal of my personal Software Preservation Project

[Richard Howe]

Thanks Derek

I am pleased you found it useful, and pleased you bought it from Tom (last
name Dolezal).

I remember TK Computerware as a consistent supporter and retailer of QL and
Z88 products at the time. Tom worked in Ashford, Kent but I think he moved
in the 90s. When credit card fraud began to take hold. He 'sold' a Z88 to a
fraudster who later phoned him and boasted about the fraud. Wolfgang
suggested 'some people are just evil'. Well that kind of deliberate torture
comes close. On a positive note I did get some fraudsters arrested one time,
they were under 18 apparently. Their leader had the sense to leg it but must
have had a few sleepless nights. Still, that's another story.

Best wishes
Richard Howe

-Original Message-
From: Ql-Users [mailto:ql-users-boun...@lists.q-v-d.com] On Behalf Of Derek
Stewart
Sent: 09 July 2016 08:41
To: ql-us...@q-v-d.com
Subject: Re: [Ql-Users] Withdrawal of my personal Software Preservation
Project

Hi Richard,

I bought a copy of Master Spy in 1989 from TK Computaware, aftwer a review
in QL Wolrd.

I must say that Master Spy was one of best QL software I have ever had. 
I am sorry for not buying it direct from you.

Regards,

Derek

On 07/07/16 16:16, Richard Howe wrote:
> Hi
>
> I don't often reply in the forum but I do watch it, and this thread 
> caught my attention.
>
> Issues:
>   1.  Integrity.
>   2.  Letting go of personal attacks by trolls, and the trolls 
> themselves.
>   3.  Copyright.
>
> 1.  Integrity.
> Those who appreciate the value of copyright do so because it is 
> 'right' to morally and financially support those who give energy to 
> projects that interest the community. Those who break copyright law 
> are ignorant of this, their minds commonly lacking respect for others. 
> Those who simply observe the law have missed the point.
>
> 2. Letting go.
> When encountering people of low integrity it is important first to 
> recognise them for the ignorant people they are, and quickly say 
> 'bye'. It's easy to forgive them because they are obviously too 
> ignorant to dig themselves out of the pit they have dug for 
> themselves. Allowing trolls space in your mind will lead to your poor 
> health as you are allowing your own ego to mull over their negative 
> words. Simply know the community is constructive, and will dismiss them
and their comments. Only trolls really engage with trolls.
> Letting go is an important healing principle.
>
> 3. Copyright.
> I would not be fussed if copies of my old QL programs were passed around.
> However, I am writing a website that uses a few original ideas in 
> them, and I 'would' be fussed if the ideas were misused and undermined 
> my current project. The law allows for 'fair use' of parts of a 
> copyright item and this is wise. Special licences can also widen the 
> availability for users while protecting essentials for the author. 
> Perhaps I should mention that thirty years ago I wrote the Spy and Master
Spy editors, Archivist, Mailfile, etc.
> Back then there were enthusiasts but few buyers, much like today. I 
> haven't sold anything QL in the last twenty years. I seem to remember 
> all the profits were ploughed back into advertising. That's the nature 
> of the game sometimes.
>
> Kind regards
> Richard Howe
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Ql-Users [mailto:ql-users-boun...@lists.q-v-d.com] On Behalf Of 
> Rich Mellor
> Sent: 07 July 2016 14:32
> To: ql-us...@q-v-d.com
> Subject: Re: [Ql-Users] Withdrawal of my personal Software 
> Preservation Project
>
> On 07/07/2016 11:13, Wolfgang Lenerz wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> Just my 2 cents worth.
>>
>> As I understand it, Rich came under attack from some (as yet unnamed) 
>> sources because he (i) sells old programs for the QL and (ii) sent 
>> take-down notices (or was suspected of sending them) to sites that 
>> apparently hosted copyrighted files without the owners' consent.
>>
>> It goes without saying that being attacked for these actions is just 
>> unacceptable. I'm alarmed, Rich, that this should cause you health 
>> problems. I believe that the echo your decision got on the list here 
>> shows that people here do support you.
>>
>> Except for the health problem, I'm not sure that I understand why 
>> this causes you to stop your preservation project. Surely the best 
>> strategy to adopt is to ignore the  
>> who bring these attacks - and go on as before ?
>>
>> I think, Rich, that you should publish here extracts of the offending 
>> emails or whatever form that correspondence took, together with the 
>> author's names, so that I, for one, could be sure not to have any 
>> contact with them.
>>
>>
>> The discussion now seems to center on whether all QL software should 
>> be made available for free. I agree with much of what Marcel writes, 
>> in that I also think that all of this 30+ years old software
>> **should** be free. Like Marcel, I'm in the process of releasing my 
>> commercial programs as freeware, as and when I get 

Re: [Ql-Users] Withdrawal of my personal Software Preservation Project

[Derek Stewart]

Hi Richard,

I bought a copy of Master Spy in 1989 from TK Computaware, aftwer a 
review in QL Wolrd.


I must say that Master Spy was one of best QL software I have ever had. 
I am sorry for not buying it direct from you.


Regards,

Derek

On 07/07/16 16:16, Richard Howe wrote:

Hi

I don't often reply in the forum but I do watch it, and this thread caught
my attention.

Issues:
1.  Integrity.
2.  Letting go of personal attacks by trolls, and the trolls
themselves.
3.  Copyright.

1.  Integrity.
Those who appreciate the value of copyright do so because it is 'right' to
morally and financially support those who give energy to projects that
interest the community. Those who break copyright law are ignorant of this,
their minds commonly lacking respect for others. Those who simply observe
the law have missed the point.

2. Letting go.
When encountering people of low integrity it is important first to recognise
them for the ignorant people they are, and quickly say 'bye'. It's easy to
forgive them because they are obviously too ignorant to dig themselves out
of the pit they have dug for themselves. Allowing trolls space in your mind
will lead to your poor health as you are allowing your own ego to mull over
their negative words. Simply know the community is constructive, and will
dismiss them and their comments. Only trolls really engage with trolls.
Letting go is an important healing principle.

3. Copyright.
I would not be fussed if copies of my old QL programs were passed around.
However, I am writing a website that uses a few original ideas in them, and
I 'would' be fussed if the ideas were misused and undermined my current
project. The law allows for 'fair use' of parts of a copyright item and this
is wise. Special licences can also widen the availability for users while
protecting essentials for the author. Perhaps I should mention that thirty
years ago I wrote the Spy and Master Spy editors, Archivist, Mailfile, etc.
Back then there were enthusiasts but few buyers, much like today. I haven't
sold anything QL in the last twenty years. I seem to remember all the
profits were ploughed back into advertising. That's the nature of the game
sometimes.

Kind regards
Richard Howe

-Original Message-
From: Ql-Users [mailto:ql-users-boun...@lists.q-v-d.com] On Behalf Of Rich
Mellor
Sent: 07 July 2016 14:32
To: ql-us...@q-v-d.com
Subject: Re: [Ql-Users] Withdrawal of my personal Software Preservation
Project

On 07/07/2016 11:13, Wolfgang Lenerz wrote:

Hi,

Just my 2 cents worth.

As I understand it, Rich came under attack from some (as yet unnamed)
sources because he (i) sells old programs for the QL and (ii) sent
take-down notices (or was suspected of sending them) to sites that
apparently hosted copyrighted files without the owners' consent.

It goes without saying that being attacked for these actions is just
unacceptable. I'm alarmed, Rich, that this should cause you health
problems. I believe that the echo your decision got on the list here
shows that people here do support you.

Except for the health problem, I'm not sure that I understand why this
causes you to stop your preservation project. Surely the best strategy
to adopt is to ignore the  who bring
these attacks - and go on as before ?

I think, Rich, that you should publish here extracts of the offending
emails or whatever form that correspondence took, together with the
author's names, so that I, for one, could be sure not to have any
contact with them.


The discussion now seems to center on whether all QL software should
be made available for free. I agree with much of what Marcel writes,
in that I also think that all of this 30+ years old software
**should** be free. Like Marcel, I'm in the process of releasing my
commercial programs as freeware, as and when I get around to it.
However, the decision to do so is mine and nobody else's. Likewise,
the decision for others to do so with their software is theirs. Do I
think that that old software should be released for free, like Marcel
does ? Sure ! Would I, like Marcel, refuse to pay a cent for any old
game ? Yup : if it isn't free, I don't even look at it.

But I don't see what's wrong with copyright owners holding on to their
property, nor with Rich trying to sell some software and make some
money from it. I do not understand the mindset of people who believe
that these things MUST NECESSARILY be free and if they aren't, then
the copyright owners and traders are evil, and fair game for any sort
of abuse (I'm not accusing anybody on this list of thinking that way!).

Is the fact that some copyright owners try to make a buck off their
software in any way nefarious or detrimental to the QL scene ? In
other words, do we loose users because of it ? I don't believe so. I
frankly fail to believe that someone new to the QL scene would look at
it, look at the software available, think < hey that's a game I must
have > and then go away when he discovers that the game is