Re: [Ql-Users] EasyPtr and rescalable windows.

[Daniel Baum via Ql-Users]

Thanks to everyone for your help.

I got it to work,

D.

On Sat, Sep 9, 2017 at 1:15 PM, Bob Spelten via Ql-Users <
ql-users@lists.q-v-d.com> wrote:

> Op Fri, 08 Sep 2017 19:59:28 +0200 schreef Daniel Baum via Ql-Users <
> ql-users@lists.q-v-d.com>:
>
> Hi all,
>>
>> I am trying to get my head around EasyPtr (again).
>>
>> I have been playing with the new ability to create resizable windows. This
>> turns out to be not terribly difficult, and I was able to create a
>> resizable version of the calculator from Norman Dunbar's tutorial without
>> suffering too much.
>>
>> However, creating a freely resizable version of QBase is dependent on
>> being
>> able to read the size of the newly resized window.and its components. I
>> have been unable to find any obvious way to do this.
>>
>> Does anyone know how this is accomplished?
>>
>> I use the following routine after every move or resize.
> It has the advantage of returning the actual values, because calculated
> values given to MDRAW for a new position or size can be adjusted by WMAN2.
> That may make X even and will always keep the window inside the screen,
> including shadow spaces.
>
> ::
>  DEFine PROCedure MENU_XYS (kanal%,wdef,xs%,ys%,xo%,yo%)
>  REM >>> get coords of current outline channel
>   wdef= MWDEF(#kanal%) : REM >>> get address working definition
>   xs%= PEEK_W(wdef +32): ys%= PEEK_W(wdef +34) : REM >>> get size
>   xo%= PEEK_W(wdef +36): yo%= PEEK_W(wdef +38) : REM >>> get position
>  END DEFine MENU_XYS
>  ::
>
> Bob
>
> --
> The BSJR QL software site at: "http://members.upc.nl/b.spelten/ql/;
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Re: [Ql-Users] EasyPtr and rescalable windows.

[Norman Dunbar via Ql-Users]

This might be handy too then, it's the official 68000 programmers manual, 
covering all the cpus:

http://www.nxp.com/docs/en/reference-manual/M68000PRM.pdf


Have fun.


Cheers,
Norm.
-- 
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Re: [Ql-Users] EasyPtr and rescalable windows.

[Daniel Baum via Ql-Users]

Hi Norman,

I am familiar with your excellent Assembly Language book.

I will take a look at the toolkit that you mention; it certainly sounds as
if it could be used as a template for what I am looking for.

Come to think of it, I have actually never written any assembly language on
the QL, as far as I remember. The last time I attempted to write assembly,
it was 68000 code on an Atari ST. The ST went up into the attic in the
early 90s (it is still there), so it must have been before that.

D.

PS. Thanks for the great EasyPtr tutorial too.

On Sat, Sep 9, 2017 at 12:09 AM, Norman Dunbar via Ql-Users <
ql-users@lists.q-v-d.com> wrote:

> Evening Daniel,
>
> Re assembly language and writing extensions, my eBook has a few chapters
> on that. Help yourself to http://qdosmsq.dunbar-it.co.
> uk/downloads/QLToday/QL_Assembly.pdf.
>
> If you need to return two values, or four, then take a look at the
> DJTOOLKIT sources at https://github.com/SinclairQL/DJToolkit, you will be
> interested in the MAX_CON function which is passed a channel I'd and 4
> integers, and returns an error code as the result, plus updates the 4
> integers with the channel's window or console sizes and positions:
>
> **
> * error = MAX_CON #channel, x%, y%, xo%, yo% => returns an error and
> *updates the 4 (non-channel) parameters to be the
> *maximum sizes & positions that a CON channel is.
> **
>
> You could write something similar quite easily, I'm sure.
>
> HTH
>
> Cheers,
> Norm.
>
> --
> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
> ___
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Re: [Ql-Users] EasyPtr and rescalable windows.

[Norman Dunbar via Ql-Users]

Evening Daniel,

Re assembly language and writing extensions, my eBook has a few chapters on 
that. Help yourself to 
http://qdosmsq.dunbar-it.co.uk/downloads/QLToday/QL_Assembly.pdf.

If you need to return two values, or four, then take a look at the DJTOOLKIT 
sources at https://github.com/SinclairQL/DJToolkit, you will be interested in 
the MAX_CON function which is passed a channel I'd and 4 integers, and returns 
an error code as the result, plus updates the 4 integers with the channel's 
window or console sizes and positions:

**
* error = MAX_CON #channel, x%, y%, xo%, yo% => returns an error and
*updates the 4 (non-channel) parameters to be the
*maximum sizes & positions that a CON channel is.
**

You could write something similar quite easily, I'm sure.

HTH

Cheers,
Norm.

-- 
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Re: [Ql-Users] EasyPtr and rescalable windows.

[Daniel Baum via Ql-Users]

Hi François,

Thanks for the pointer to Dilwyn's tutorial.

It is helpful but it doesn't contain what I was looking for. I did
eventually find the answer here:

http://www.qlforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=3=1027

The solution involves PEEKing the window definition table, which is
effective, but not exactly obvious, at least if you've become unaccustomed
to 1980s programming conventions.

I have never written a Basic extension - it's a very long time since I last
attempted to write something in assembler, but this seems like a prime
candidate for my first attempt, assuming it doesn't already exist somewhere.

Rgds,

Daniel

On Fri, Sep 8, 2017 at 9:32 PM, François Van Emelen via Ql-Users <
ql-users@lists.q-v-d.com> wrote:

> Op 8/09/2017 om 19:59 schreef Daniel Baum via Ql-Users:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I am trying to get my head around EasyPtr (again).
>>
>> I have been playing with the new ability to create resizable windows. This
>> turns out to be not terribly difficult, and I was able to create a
>> resizable version of the calculator from Norman Dunbar's tutorial without
>> suffering too much.
>>
>> However, creating a freely resizable version of QBase is dependent on
>> being
>> able to read the size of the newly resized window.and its components. I
>> have been unable to find any obvious way to do this.
>>
>> Does anyone know how this is accomplished?
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Daniel
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>>
>>
>> Hi,
>
> Dilwyn have explained this in 'SCALING IN EASYPTR 4'. Can't remember the
> name of the file. Have a look at his website.
>
> François Van Emelen
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Ql-Users] EasyPtr and rescalable windows.

[François Van Emelen via Ql-Users]

Op 8/09/2017 om 19:59 schreef Daniel Baum via Ql-Users:

Hi all,

I am trying to get my head around EasyPtr (again).

I have been playing with the new ability to create resizable windows. This
turns out to be not terribly difficult, and I was able to create a
resizable version of the calculator from Norman Dunbar's tutorial without
suffering too much.

However, creating a freely resizable version of QBase is dependent on being
able to read the size of the newly resized window.and its components. I
have been unable to find any obvious way to do this.

Does anyone know how this is accomplished?

Thanks

Daniel
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Hi,

Dilwyn have explained this in 'SCALING IN EASYPTR 4'. Can't remember the 
name of the file. Have a look at his website.


François Van Emelen




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[Ql-Users] EasyPtr and rescalable windows.

[Daniel Baum via Ql-Users]

Hi all,

I am trying to get my head around EasyPtr (again).

I have been playing with the new ability to create resizable windows. This
turns out to be not terribly difficult, and I was able to create a
resizable version of the calculator from Norman Dunbar's tutorial without
suffering too much.

However, creating a freely resizable version of QBase is dependent on being
able to read the size of the newly resized window.and its components. I
have been unable to find any obvious way to do this.

Does anyone know how this is accomplished?

Thanks

Daniel
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Re: [Ql-Users] EasyPTR vs Button Frame :-)

[Per Witte via Ql-Users]

PS You will probably also need some kind of toolkit to reserve and release
a slot in the Button Frame. If you dont have one and dont feel like writing
your own, you may use mine. Its just over 300b of code.
Per

On 4 September 2017 at 23:02, Per Witte  wrote:

> Yes, but not with Wman. You have to devise your own.
> Per
>
> On 4 September 2017 at 20:20, Giorgio Garabello via Ql-Users <
> ql-users@lists.q-v-d.com> wrote:
>
>> Hello to all.
>> Has anyone ever tried to insert an EasyPTR menu inside the Button Frame?
>> Is it possible?
>>
>> Greetings
>> Giorgio
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>>
>>
>
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Re: [Ql-Users] EasyPTR vs Button Frame :-)

[Per Witte via Ql-Users]

Yes, but not with Wman. You have to devise your own.
Per

On 4 September 2017 at 20:20, Giorgio Garabello via Ql-Users <
ql-users@lists.q-v-d.com> wrote:

> Hello to all.
> Has anyone ever tried to insert an EasyPTR menu inside the Button Frame?
> Is it possible?
>
> Greetings
> Giorgio
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>
>
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[Ql-Users] EasyPTR vs Button Frame :-)

[Giorgio Garabello via Ql-Users]

Hello to all.
Has anyone ever tried to insert an EasyPTR menu inside the Button Frame?
Is it possible?

Greetings
Giorgio
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Re: [Ql-Users] Easyptr question

[Daniel Baum via Ql-Users]

Hi John,

The menu will actually load into easyMenu. The problem is loading it into
SBasic.

I'm wondering whether I need to predefine a large screen area before
loading it? The smaller menus load OK.

D.

D..

On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 2:50 AM, John Gilpin via Ql-Users <
ql-users@lists.q-v-d.com> wrote:

> Hi Daniel,
>
> I had a similar problem regarding a large menu in EP4. I originally wrote
> it without any problems but when I came to load it again to make some
> slight changes I found that it wouldn't load. A member from the local Sub
> Group was also playing about with it and he found that it would load OK if
> he changed the screen resolution. (or was it the MODE?). Whichever it was
> worked for metoo! As you say, it worked when running the complete
> programme, so I didn't try to do anything else with it. (I may have got an
> error report when trying to load it outside the main programme (saying
> something to the effect that it was too large for the space available!) but
> it was a long time ago and we are all getting older!!
>
> HTH
>
> Kind Regards,
>
> John Gilpin.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 27/08/2017 21:40, Daniel Baum via Ql-Users wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Almost 20 years ago I wrote a program called Qbase, and now I am trying to
>> run and compile the source code.
>>
>> There are two versions, the older one is mostly text based, with a few
>> added menus. This version runs and compiles without any problems.
>>
>> The newer version was written with easyPtr, and I am having problems
>> getting some of the menu files to work. Most of the menus load and display
>> without any problems but the main menus do not. I can load them into
>> easyMenu, but MDRAW does not display them, the menus either do not display
>> at all, or they are garbled.
>>
>> The main menus are much larger than the sub menus (the ones that do work),
>> so maybe that's a clue.
>>
>> The actual compiled program from the zip does work, and I am stumped.
>>
>> Obviously both the operating system and easyPtr have gone through many
>> versions since I wrote qbase, so I assume something has changed in the
>> environment. Does anyone have a clue where I should look? I am using the
>> latest QPC, SMSQ/E and easyPtr, as far as I know.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> D.
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>>
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Re: [Ql-Users] Easyptr question

[John Gilpin via Ql-Users]

Hi Daniel,

I had a similar problem regarding a large menu in EP4. I originally 
wrote it without any problems but when I came to load it again to make 
some slight changes I found that it wouldn't load. A member from the 
local Sub Group was also playing about with it and he found that it 
would load OK if he changed the screen resolution. (or was it the 
MODE?). Whichever it was worked for metoo! As you say, it worked when 
running the complete programme, so I didn't try to do anything else with 
it. (I may have got an error report when trying to load it outside the 
main programme (saying something to the effect that it was too large for 
the space available!) but it was a long time ago and we are all getting 
older!!


HTH

Kind Regards,

John Gilpin.





On 27/08/2017 21:40, Daniel Baum via Ql-Users wrote:

Hi all,

Almost 20 years ago I wrote a program called Qbase, and now I am trying to
run and compile the source code.

There are two versions, the older one is mostly text based, with a few
added menus. This version runs and compiles without any problems.

The newer version was written with easyPtr, and I am having problems
getting some of the menu files to work. Most of the menus load and display
without any problems but the main menus do not. I can load them into
easyMenu, but MDRAW does not display them, the menus either do not display
at all, or they are garbled.

The main menus are much larger than the sub menus (the ones that do work),
so maybe that's a clue.

The actual compiled program from the zip does work, and I am stumped.

Obviously both the operating system and easyPtr have gone through many
versions since I wrote qbase, so I assume something has changed in the
environment. Does anyone have a clue where I should look? I am using the
latest QPC, SMSQ/E and easyPtr, as far as I know.

Thanks,

D.
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Re: [Ql-Users] Easyptr question

[Giorgio Garabello via Ql-Users]

Which video resolution are you using?

2017-08-27 22:40 GMT+02:00 Daniel Baum via Ql-Users <
ql-users@lists.q-v-d.com>:

> Hi all,
>
> Almost 20 years ago I wrote a program called Qbase, and now I am trying to
> run and compile the source code.
>
> There are two versions, the older one is mostly text based, with a few
> added menus. This version runs and compiles without any problems.
>
> The newer version was written with easyPtr, and I am having problems
> getting some of the menu files to work. Most of the menus load and display
> without any problems but the main menus do not. I can load them into
> easyMenu, but MDRAW does not display them, the menus either do not display
> at all, or they are garbled.
>
> The main menus are much larger than the sub menus (the ones that do work),
> so maybe that's a clue.
>
> The actual compiled program from the zip does work, and I am stumped.
>
> Obviously both the operating system and easyPtr have gone through many
> versions since I wrote qbase, so I assume something has changed in the
> environment. Does anyone have a clue where I should look? I am using the
> latest QPC, SMSQ/E and easyPtr, as far as I know.
>
> Thanks,
>
> D.
> ___
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>
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[Ql-Users] Easyptr question

[Daniel Baum via Ql-Users]

Hi all,

Almost 20 years ago I wrote a program called Qbase, and now I am trying to
run and compile the source code.

There are two versions, the older one is mostly text based, with a few
added menus. This version runs and compiles without any problems.

The newer version was written with easyPtr, and I am having problems
getting some of the menu files to work. Most of the menus load and display
without any problems but the main menus do not. I can load them into
easyMenu, but MDRAW does not display them, the menus either do not display
at all, or they are garbled.

The main menus are much larger than the sub menus (the ones that do work),
so maybe that's a clue.

The actual compiled program from the zip does work, and I am stumped.

Obviously both the operating system and easyPtr have gone through many
versions since I wrote qbase, so I assume something has changed in the
environment. Does anyone have a clue where I should look? I am using the
latest QPC, SMSQ/E and easyPtr, as far as I know.

Thanks,

D.
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Re: [Ql-Users] EasyPtr and me

[Ralf Reköndt]

Ok, but it *had* worked without problems. But the program was abandonded 
after the changes in PE.


- Original Message - 
From: "Wolf"


Hi,
IIRC that's because you might get non rectangular outlines. That
complicates matters quite bit, when saving/restoring part of the window.

HTH

Wolfgang

On 04/07/2016 08:06 PM, Ralf Reköndt wrote:

I remember that the first PE versions allowed secondaries to be outside of
primaries, and that worked, as I have seen at minimum one program, ehich
have used that. I am not sure, why TT has changed that.

Cheers...Ralf

- Original Message - From: "Marcel Kilgus"


Dilwyn Jones wrote:

Would it be possible for the AppMan program outline to be changed?
It seems
to cover the whole screen whereas actually using only a small
percentage of
it, hiding all other programs in the process.


IIRC that is because it is able to display the menus and it can only
do this in its own outline. Not knowing how big the menus you're going
to load are it makes sense to use the whole screen. A bit like with
EasyMenu itself, though I did implemented resize and move for it after
much prodding.




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Re: [Ql-Users] EasyPtr and me

[Marcel Kilgus]

Ralf Reköndt wrote:
> I remember that the first PE versions allowed secondaries to be outside of
> primaries, and that worked, as I have seen at minimum one program, ehich
> have used that. I am not sure, why TT has changed that.

Wild guess: because every secondary window then had to have its own
save area and that was not sustainable with only 128kb of RAM.

Marcel

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Re: [Ql-Users] EasyPtr and me

[Ralf Reköndt]

I remember that the first PE versions allowed secondaries to be outside of 
primaries, and that worked, as I have seen at minimum one program, ehich 
have used that. I am not sure, why TT has changed that.


Cheers...Ralf

- Original Message - 
From: "Marcel Kilgus"



Dilwyn Jones wrote:
Would it be possible for the AppMan program outline to be changed? It 
seems
to cover the whole screen whereas actually using only a small percentage 
of

it, hiding all other programs in the process.


IIRC that is because it is able to display the menus and it can only
do this in its own outline. Not knowing how big the menus you're going
to load are it makes sense to use the whole screen. A bit like with
EasyMenu itself, though I did implemented resize and move for it after
much prodding. 


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Re: [Ql-Users] EasyPtr and me

[Ralf Reköndt]

Ok, but it *had* worked without problems. But the program was abandonded
after the changes in PE.

- Original Message - 

From: "Wolf"

Hi,
IIRC that's because you might get non rectangular outlines. That
complicates matters quite bit, when saving/restoring part of the window.

HTH

Wolfgang

On 04/07/2016 08:06 PM, Ralf Reköndt wrote:
I remember that the first PE versions allowed secondaries to be outside 
of

primaries, and that worked, as I have seen at minimum one program, ehich
have used that. I am not sure, why TT has changed that.

Cheers...Ralf

- Original Message - From: "Marcel Kilgus"


Dilwyn Jones wrote:

Would it be possible for the AppMan program outline to be changed?
It seems
to cover the whole screen whereas actually using only a small
percentage of
it, hiding all other programs in the process.


IIRC that is because it is able to display the menus and it can only
do this in its own outline. Not knowing how big the menus you're going
to load are it makes sense to use the whole screen. A bit like with
EasyMenu itself, though I did implemented resize and move for it after
much prodding.




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Re: [Ql-Users] EasyPtr and me

[Norman Dunbar]

SETW is the program I was trying to remember, and failing miserably!

Dilwyn, sorry, I can't remember which edition of Quanta the articles were 
originally published in. I checked my ources and they are not Quill, nor are 
they Perfection. I have a vague recollection that they might be Write.exe but 
I'm not sure anymore. I thought they were Quill.



Cheers,
Norm. 
-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
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Re: [Ql-Users] EasyPtr and me

[Wolf]

Hi,
IIRC that's because you might get non rectangular outlines. That 
complicates matters quite bit, when saving/restoring part of the window.


HTH

Wolfgang

On 04/07/2016 08:06 PM, Ralf Reköndt wrote:

I remember that the first PE versions allowed secondaries to be outside of
primaries, and that worked, as I have seen at minimum one program, ehich
have used that. I am not sure, why TT has changed that.

Cheers...Ralf

- Original Message - From: "Marcel Kilgus"


Dilwyn Jones wrote:

Would it be possible for the AppMan program outline to be changed?
It seems
to cover the whole screen whereas actually using only a small
percentage of
it, hiding all other programs in the process.


IIRC that is because it is able to display the menus and it can only
do this in its own outline. Not knowing how big the menus you're going
to load are it makes sense to use the whole screen. A bit like with
EasyMenu itself, though I did implemented resize and move for it after
much prodding.




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Re: [Ql-Users] EasyPtr and me

[Ralf Reköndt]

I remember that the first PE versions allowed secondaries to be outside of
primaries, and that worked, as I have seen at minimum one program, ehich
have used that. I am not sure, why TT has changed that.

Cheers...Ralf

- Original Message - 
From: "Marcel Kilgus"



Dilwyn Jones wrote:
Would it be possible for the AppMan program outline to be changed? It 
seems
to cover the whole screen whereas actually using only a small percentage 
of

it, hiding all other programs in the process.


IIRC that is because it is able to display the menus and it can only
do this in its own outline. Not knowing how big the menus you're going
to load are it makes sense to use the whole screen. A bit like with
EasyMenu itself, though I did implemented resize and move for it after
much prodding.




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Re: [Ql-Users] EasyPtr and me

[Norman Dunbar]

Thanks all for the birthday wishes.
It seems I'm not the only one with "leaky RAM" then, judging by the comments.

Could someone please put John Gilpin out of his PDF misery and feed the Easy 
Pointer Guide I wrote through QStripper and save the files as PDFs. The utility 
creates text searchable ones as opposed to bitmapped ones.

I would do it myself, but for some reason, I think the source files I have are 
Windows 3.11 WRITE.EXE format, and I don't have that any more. Or Word. Or 
Windows!

Thanks.


Cheers,
Norm.
-- 
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Re: [Ql-Users] EasyPtr and me

[Bob Spelten]

Op Thu, 07 Apr 2016 16:25:29 +0200 schreef Dilwyn Jones  
:


The reason for that fullscreen is that when you View a menu from the  
list this will most likely be bigger than the Main AppMan window,
so the outline is set as big as possible.Some time ago Per Witte  
suggested a way to aviod this but I need to delve into the whole  
subject-matter again before I can begin to change

that (my RAM is not what it used to be).

Would it be possible for the viewing to be done as a separate job called  
from AppMan which had its own outline for the duration of the viewing,  
for example?

(...)


I believe that was the basic idea.
A lot of parameters need to be passed to the other job and I never got  
around to working that out.

It's back on top of the pile now.

Bob

--
The BSJR QL software site at: http://members.upc.nl/b.spelten/ql/
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Re: [Ql-Users] EasyPtr and me

[Marcel Kilgus]

Dilwyn Jones wrote:
> Along with people like Bob, I remember breaking your hard work a few times,
> I think it was down to me doing things nobody thought of like an application
> window menu with just one or item or something like that. Hope you've 
> forgiven us all by now ;-)

Forgive you, Bob and Per? Never! :-) The whole application menu code
can give you nightmares and I'm still rather astonished that I was
able to fix anything at all...

Cheers, Marcel

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Re: [Ql-Users] EasyPtr and me

[Bob Spelten]

Op Thu, 07 Apr 2016 15:31:58 +0200 schreef Dilwyn Jones  
:



It's about time I finish my update for AppMan.

Bob
Would it be possible for the AppMan program outline to be changed? It  
seems to cover the whole screen whereas actually using only a small  
percentage of it, hiding all other programs in the process.


That's my only little niggle about it, fantastic program otherwise.

The reason for that fullscreen is that when you View a menu from the list  
this will most likely be bigger than the Main AppMan window, so the  
outline is set as big as possible.
Some time ago Per Witte suggested a way to aviod this but I need to delve  
into the whole subject-matter again before I can begin to change that (my  
RAM is not what it used to be).


Bob

--
The BSJR QL software site at: http://members.upc.nl/b.spelten/ql/
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Re: [Ql-Users] EasyPtr and me

[Marcel Kilgus]

Dilwyn Jones wrote:
> Would it be possible for the AppMan program outline to be changed? It seems
> to cover the whole screen whereas actually using only a small percentage of
> it, hiding all other programs in the process.

IIRC that is because it is able to display the menus and it can only
do this in its own outline. Not knowing how big the menus you're going
to load are it makes sense to use the whole screen. A bit like with
EasyMenu itself, though I did implemented resize and move for it after
much prodding.

Marcel

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Re: [Ql-Users] EasyPtr and me

[George Gwilt]

> On 7 Apr 2016, at 12:19, Norman Dunbar  wrote:
> 
> A most enjoyable read, thanks Marcel. I might even take you up on the offer 
> of EasyMenu 4 sometime, but these days I'm using George's not-quite-WYSIWYG 
> assembly utilities. (Due to old age - 56 today - I'm afraid I can't remember 
> the damned name of the utility I use! Aargh! Better book my etirement home 
> soon I think. :-(

I certainly find it very hard to remember things. I do remember that my 
assembler routines are referred to as EasyPEasy and they are on my website. 
From that I can find the names of any specific program.

I see also that my website contains something called TurboPTR which enables you 
to write PE programs in S*BASIC and then compile them with TURBO. This must be 
similar to EasyPtr.

George
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Re: [Ql-Users] EasyPtr and me

[Dilwyn Jones]

Fantastic. I've used Easyptr for many years and was so delighted when 
Easyptr 4 came out and I could write programs for wman2 in compiled basic. I 
guess had it not been for Marcel, i might not have written all those "grey" 
programs over the years - they'd still be black, white, green and red.


Absolutely delighted that you have chosen to make Easyptr 4 free. Between 
that and George's TurboPTR and EasyPEasy (never used EasyPEasy - must try it 
sometime) there's no excuse not to write such programs these days. Once John 
Gilpin has finished making his PDF of Norman's Idiot's Guide (or whatever it 
was called, sorry Norman, old age memory caught up with me too it seems)...


Along with people like Bob, I remember breaking your hard work a few times, 
I think it was down to me doing things nobody thought of like an application 
window menu with just one or item or something like that. Hope you've 
forgiven us all by now ;-)


Thank you Marcel.

Dilwyn Jones

-Original Message- 
From: Marcel Kilgus

Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2016 11:44 PM
To: ql-us...@q-v-d.com
Subject: [Ql-Users] EasyPtr and me

I wrote up a short tale about my life with EasyPtr. Plus there's a
gift at the end:

http://www.kilgus.net/2016/04/07/easyptr-and-me/

Enjoy! If not the tale, then at least the gift ;) Cheers, Marcel

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-
No virus found in this message.
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Version: 2016.0.7497 / Virus Database: 4545/11975 - Release Date: 04/06/16 




-
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2016.0.7497 / Virus Database: 4545/11979 - Release Date: 04/07/16

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Re: [Ql-Users] EasyPtr and me

[Dilwyn Jones]

It's about time I finish my update for AppMan.

Bob
Would it be possible for the AppMan program outline to be changed? It seems 
to cover the whole screen whereas actually using only a small percentage of 
it, hiding all other programs in the process.


That's my only little niggle about it, fantastic program otherwise.

Dilwyn 




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Re: [Ql-Users] EasyPtr and me

[François Van Emelen]

Op 7/04/2016 om 0:44 schreef Marcel Kilgus:

I wrote up a short tale about my life with EasyPtr. Plus there's a
gift at the end:

http://www.kilgus.net/2016/04/07/easyptr-and-me/

Enjoy! If not the tale, then at least the gift ;) Cheers, Marcel

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Many thanks Marcel.
I bought my copy many years ago in Eindhoven at one of the many QL shows 
there.
I remember we had to queue for updates/upgrades (QD, Easyptr, QPC,...) 
at Jochen's stand.


François Van Emelen


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Re: [Ql-Users] EasyPtr and me

[Marcel Kilgus]

Bob Spelten wrote:
>> I wrote up a short tale about my life with EasyPtr. Plus there's a
>> gift at the end:
>>
>> http://www.kilgus.net/2016/04/07/easyptr-and-me/
>>
>> Enjoy! If not the tale, then at least the gift ;) Cheers, Marcel
>
> I like the tale.

Thanks.

> My copy of EP3 was bought in '93 at an Eindhoven meeting from Albin  
> Hessler himself.

Then I probably was there, too, but in the before-QPC times still
somewhat of an unknown ;)

> And you may remember when you worked on EP4, SuQcess tested areas not
> reached before.

I have successfully suppressed most of that memory :-) But I myself
learned a bit about application windows then... I always found them
kind of difficult to use.

> It's about time I finish my update for AppMan.

I can update the distribution if you finish it.

Cheers, Marcel

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Re: [Ql-Users] EasyPtr and me

[Bob Spelten]

Op Thu, 07 Apr 2016 00:44:35 +0200 schreef Marcel Kilgus  
:



I wrote up a short tale about my life with EasyPtr. Plus there's a
gift at the end:

http://www.kilgus.net/2016/04/07/easyptr-and-me/

Enjoy! If not the tale, then at least the gift ;) Cheers, Marcel


I like the tale.
My copy of EP3 was bought in '93 at an Eindhoven meeting from Albin  
Hessler himself.

It was not as easy as I thought and lay dormant for many years.
Not until Wolfgang Uhlig gave me the sources of SuQcess did I really  
understand how to use it.
And you may remember when you worked on EP4, SuQcess tested areas not  
reached before.

It also made it easier for me to understand QPTR.
It's about time I finish my update for AppMan.

Bob

--
The BSJR QL software site at: http://members.upc.nl/b.spelten/ql/
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Re: [Ql-Users] EasyPtr and me

[Marcel Kilgus]

Norman Dunbar wrote:
> What Darren said! ;-)
>
> A most enjoyable read, thanks Marcel. I might even take you up on
> the offer of EasyMenu 4 sometime, but these days I'm using George's
> not-quite-WYSIWYG assembly utilities.

You can always use EasyMenu to design the menu and EasySource to
generate the assembler source from it ;-) I guess George's utilities
work with standard definitions, too, don't they?

> (Due to old age - 56 today -

Today? Happy birthday then :-)

Cheers, Marcel

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Re: [Ql-Users] EasyPtr and me

[Norman Dunbar]

What Darren said! ;-)

A most enjoyable read, thanks Marcel. I might even take you up on the offer of 
EasyMenu 4 sometime, but these days I'm using George's not-quite-WYSIWYG 
assembly utilities. (Due to old age - 56 today - I'm afraid I can't remember 
the damned name of the utility I use! Aargh! Better book my  etirement home 
soon I think. :-(


Cheers,
Norm.

On 7 April 2016 00:24:03 BST, Darren Branagh  wrote:
>What an enjoyable read :-)
>
>Thanks for the memories mate.
>
>D.
>On 6 Apr 2016 23:44, "Marcel Kilgus"  wrote:
>
>> I wrote up a short tale about my life with EasyPtr. Plus there's a
>> gift at the end:
>>
>> http://www.kilgus.net/2016/04/07/easyptr-and-me/
>>
>> Enjoy! If not the tale, then at least the gift ;) Cheers, Marcel
>>
>> ___
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>>
>___
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-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
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Re: [Ql-Users] EasyPtr and me

[Darren Branagh]

What an enjoyable read :-)

Thanks for the memories mate.

D.
On 6 Apr 2016 23:44, "Marcel Kilgus"  wrote:

> I wrote up a short tale about my life with EasyPtr. Plus there's a
> gift at the end:
>
> http://www.kilgus.net/2016/04/07/easyptr-and-me/
>
> Enjoy! If not the tale, then at least the gift ;) Cheers, Marcel
>
> ___
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>
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[Ql-Users] EasyPtr and me

[Marcel Kilgus]

I wrote up a short tale about my life with EasyPtr. Plus there's a
gift at the end:

http://www.kilgus.net/2016/04/07/easyptr-and-me/

Enjoy! If not the tale, then at least the gift ;) Cheers, Marcel

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Re: [Ql-Users] EasyPtr

[François Van Emelen]

Op 26/08/2013 19:39, Fabrizio Diversi schreef:

Hi all,
do you know where I can find latest version of EasyPtr ? (I own a 
legal copy)
I decided to spend some time again on my email program that I never 
completed I am using latest SMSQe 3.16 I am getting some strange 
behavior from MAWDRAW command, so I thought that upgrade it is the 
first thing to do.

Attached you can find a screenshot of my desktop

Ciao


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Hi,

I bought mine (version 4.09) a few years ago from Jochen Merz, but it 
doesn't seem to be available any longer.
The screenshot of your desktop can't be seen as no attachment is allowed 
on this list.


Regards,
François Van Emelen


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Re: [Ql-Users] EasyPtr

[Tobias Fröschle]

Am 28.08.2013 um 21:49 schrieb François Van Emelen:

 Op 26/08/2013 19:39, Fabrizio Diversi schreef:
 Hi all,
 do you know where I can find latest version of EasyPtr ? (I own a legal copy)
 I decided to spend some time again on my email program that I never 
 completed I am using latest SMSQe 3.16 I am getting some strange 
 behavior from MAWDRAW command, so I thought that upgrade it is the first 
 thing to do.
 Attached you can find a screenshot of my desktop
 
 Ciao
 
 
 ___
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 Hi,
 
 I bought mine (version 4.09) a few years ago from Jochen Merz, but it doesn't 
 seem to be available any longer.
 The screenshot of your desktop can't be seen as no attachment is allowed on 
 this list.
 
 Regards,
 François Van Emelen
 

Hi,
I guess asking Jochen or Marcel for an upgrade wouldn't hurt. Both are nice 
guys and don't bite, normally ;)

Tobias
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Re: [Ql-Users] EasyPtr

[QL-MyLink (f/fh)]

Hi François,

Regarding your reference to Fabrizio's -

Attached you can find a screenshot of my desktop

Fabrizio included a dynamic link which I sucessfully used to see his fine
desktop.

I'll reproduce it below in the hope that it might take you where you wanted
to go -

http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm

John in Wales


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Re: [Ql-Users] EasyPtr

[Marcel Kilgus]

Tobias Fröschle wrote:
 I guess asking Jochen or Marcel for an upgrade wouldn't hurt. Both
 are nice guys and don't bite, normally ;)

lol, thanks :-D

Actually I've sent him the files off-list already.

Cheers, Marcel

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Re: [Ql-Users] EasyPtr

[François Van Emelen]

Op 28/08/2013 22:16, QL-MyLink (f/fh) schreef:

Hi François,

Regarding your reference to Fabrizio's -

Attached you can find a screenshot of my desktop

Fabrizio included a dynamic link which I sucessfully used to see his fine
desktop.

I'll reproduce it below in the hope that it might take you where you 
wanted

to go -

http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm

John in Wales


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Hi,

Thanks.
François Van Emelen


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Re: [Ql-Users] EasyPtr

[Tobias Fröschle]

Am 28.08.2013 um 22:18 schrieb Marcel Kilgus:
 
 are nice guys and don't bite, normally ;)
 Actually I've sent him the files off-list already.


Point proven ;)

Tobias
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[Ql-Users] EasyPtr

[Fabrizio Diversi]

Hi all,
do you know where I can find latest version of EasyPtr ? (I own a legal 
copy)
I decided to spend some time again on my email program that I never 
completed I am using latest SMSQe 3.16 I am getting some strange 
behavior from MAWDRAW command, so I thought that upgrade it is the first 
thing to do.

Attached you can find a screenshot of my desktop

Ciao
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Re: [Ql-Users] EasyPtr BLOBW

[François Van Emelen]

Op 20/06/2012 16:48, Dilwyn Jones schreef:

tobias.froesc...@t-online.de wrote:

does anyone know how spraying sprites with the Easyptr 4.01 BLOBW
procedure is supposed to work in mode 32?


TT never implemented spraying for GD2, sorry. Wasn't exactly a much
sought of feature.

Marcel
Shame, although I understand the reasons. I think the same applies to 
some RPXL% options (unless you have made changes since I last checked!).



You 're so right!
 Are  there  other features never implemented?
François Van Emelen
SNIP




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[Ql-Users] EasyPtr BLOBW

[tobias.froesc...@t-online.de]

Hi everyone,

does anyone know how spraying sprites with the Easyptr 4.01 BLOBW procedure 
is supposed to work in mode 32?

I have tried the following:

1. High-Color sprite 27x27
2. QPC in high-colour mode
BLOBW #appwin,xpos%,ypos%, sprite, sprite,10
-- Bad parameter (and interestingly, all my other sprites in the same 
Easyptr program are garbled, i.e. origins shifted)
3. Reset QPC
4. Read the manual (this should probably have been step 0), x-size multiple of 
16 can be used as a pattern. A-Ha
5. Created a black square sprite, 32x32 (which is a multiple of 16, in my 
opinion), used that as a pattern
--Bad Parameter (Other sprites seem to be OK now)
6. Used the black square as both blob and pattern
--Bad Parameter

Can anyone shed some light on this, please? What am I doing wrong?
Would not RLE-ing the sprite probably help?

Cheers,
Tobias


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Re: [Ql-Users] EasyPtr BLOBW

[tobias.froesc...@t-online.de]

To answer my own question: No, Not compressing the sprite doesn't help.

-Original-Nachricht-
Von: tobias.froesc...@t-online.de tobias.froesc...@t-online.de
An: ql-us...@q-v-d.com
Betreff: [Ql-Users] EasyPtr BLOBW
Datum: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 14:36:14 +0200

Hi everyone,

does anyone know how spraying sprites with the Easyptr 4.01 BLOBW procedure 
is supposed to work in mode 32?

I have tried the following:

1. High-Color sprite 27x27
2. QPC in high-colour mode
BLOBW #appwin,xpos%,ypos%, sprite, sprite,10
-- Bad parameter (and interestingly, all my other sprites in the same 
Easyptr program are garbled, i.e. origins shifted)
3. Reset QPC
4. Read the manual (this should probably have been step 0), x-size multiple of 
16 can be used as a pattern. A-Ha
5. Created a black square sprite, 32x32 (which is a multiple of 16, in my 
opinion), used that as a pattern
--Bad Parameter (Other sprites seem to be OK now)
6. Used the black square as both blob and pattern
--Bad Parameter

Can anyone shed some light on this, please? What am I doing wrong?
Would not RLE-ing the sprite probably help?

Cheers,
Tobias


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Re: [Ql-Users] EasyPtr BLOBW

[Marcel Kilgus]

tobias.froesc...@t-online.de wrote:
 does anyone know how spraying sprites with the Easyptr 4.01 BLOBW
 procedure is supposed to work in mode 32?

TT never implemented spraying for GD2, sorry. Wasn't exactly a much
sought of feature.

Marcel

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Re: [Ql-Users] EasyPtr BLOBW

[tobias.froesc...@t-online.de]

No wonder it doesn't work, then ;)

Thanks, Marcel.

-Original-Nachricht-
Von: Marcel Kilgus ql-us...@mail.kilgus.net
An: ql-us...@q-v-d.com
Betreff: Re: [Ql-Users] EasyPtr BLOBW
Datum: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 15:59:33 +0200

tobias.froesc...@t-online.de wrote:
 does anyone know how spraying sprites with the Easyptr 4.01 BLOBW
 procedure is supposed to work in mode 32?

TT never implemented spraying for GD2, sorry. Wasn't exactly a much
sought of feature.

Marcel

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Re: [Ql-Users] EasyPtr BLOBW

[Marcel Kilgus]

tobias.froesc...@t-online.de wrote:
 No wonder it doesn't work, then ;)

Yeah, I had to look it up, too, but the source code was pretty
definite on that point ;-)

pt_spray
moveq  #err.ipar,d0
rts

end

Marcel

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Re: [Ql-Users] EasyPtr BLOBW

[Dilwyn Jones]

tobias.froesc...@t-online.de wrote:

does anyone know how spraying sprites with the Easyptr 4.01 BLOBW
procedure is supposed to work in mode 32?


TT never implemented spraying for GD2, sorry. Wasn't exactly a much
sought of feature.

Marcel
Shame, although I understand the reasons. I think the same applies to some 
RPXL% options (unless you have made changes since I last checked!).


Facilities like the RPXL% 'scan key' to search colours to help with filling, 
spray BLOBW etc would have been useful in graphical applications.


I suppose Tobias could probably implement an approximate equivalent for 
rectangles, using a loop to write a colour at random within a block, the 
loop being up to the percentage of the total number of pixels in the block, 
which would be fine for a rectangle, but not the same as the versatility of 
being able to write using the individual blob mask elements to form a spray 
shape that a pattern shows through.


Dilwyn Jones


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Re: [Ql-Users] Easyptr manual

[Marcel Kilgus]

Dilwyn Jones wrote:
 Before I reinvent the wheel and OCR my Easyptr manual to use on my
 eBook reader, has anyone else already done this?

 The Easyptr commands are the hardest syntax to remember of all the
 BASIC extensions, I think!

After reading this I checked in my usual directories and found
nothing, thus I assumed I don't have it either... only slowly and
after a mail from Jochen came the realization that not only should I
have a copy, I actually spent hour after hour re-formating and
updating that thing back then! I completely blocked that out of my
mind... almost scary ;)

Long story short, my files were somehow lost, but as my eMail archive
is complete and as I did send some version around one time or another
I did manage to dig up the current PDF and an outdated OpenOffice
version. Using the latest PDF I retrofitted the changes to the OO
document, fixing some other minor things I found as I went along and
lo and behold, the result can be downloaded from my site unter
SMSQ/E-Development: http://www.kilgus.net/smsqe/development.html

Have fun.

Cheers, Marcel

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Re: [Ql-Users] Easyptr manual

[Dilwyn Jones]

Before I reinvent the wheel and OCR my Easyptr manual to use on my
eBook reader, has anyone else already done this?

The Easyptr commands are the hardest syntax to remember of all the
BASIC extensions, I think!


After reading this I checked in my usual directories and found
nothing, thus I assumed I don't have it either... only slowly and
after a mail from Jochen came the realization that not only should I
have a copy, I actually spent hour after hour re-formating and
updating that thing back then! I completely blocked that out of my
mind... almost scary ;)

Long story short, my files were somehow lost, but as my eMail archive
is complete and as I did send some version around one time or another
I did manage to dig up the current PDF and an outdated OpenOffice
version. Using the latest PDF I retrofitted the changes to the OO
document, fixing some other minor things I found as I went along and
lo and behold, the result can be downloaded from my site unter
SMSQ/E-Development: http://www.kilgus.net/smsqe/development.html

Have fun.

Cheers, Marcel
Thank you Marcel - my eBook reader can handle PDFs so this should work OK 
for me.


Dilwyn Jones 


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[Ql-Users] Easyptr manual

[Dilwyn Jones]

Before I reinvent the wheel and OCR my Easyptr manual to use on my eBook 
reader, has anyone else already done this?

The Easyptr commands are the hardest syntax to remember of all the BASIC 
extensions, I think!

Dilwyn Jones
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Re: [Ql-Users] Easyptr manual

[Ralf Reköndt]

Seems to be on Marcel's site...?

- Original Message - 
From: Dilwyn Jones dil...@evans1511.fsnet.co.uk

To: QL Users List ql-us...@q-v-d.com
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2012 3:16 PM
Subject: [Ql-Users] Easyptr manual


Before I reinvent the wheel and OCR my Easyptr manual to use on my eBook 
reader, has anyone else already done this?


The Easyptr commands are the hardest syntax to remember of all the BASIC 
extensions, I think!


Dilwyn Jones
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Re: [Ql-Users] Easyptr manual

[Dilwyn Jones]

Umm, where? I can find the update notes for the version 4 upgrade, but not 
the full manual.


(Let me state that this is purely for my own use and won't go on my website 
for example)


Dilwyn Jones

-Original Message- 
From: Ralf Reköndt

Sent: Friday, June 08, 2012 2:33 PM
To: ql-us...@q-v-d.com
Subject: Re: [Ql-Users] Easyptr manual

Seems to be on Marcel's site...?

- Original Message - 
From: Dilwyn Jones dil...@evans1511.fsnet.co.uk

To: QL Users List ql-us...@q-v-d.com
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2012 3:16 PM
Subject: [Ql-Users] Easyptr manual


Before I reinvent the wheel and OCR my Easyptr manual to use on my eBook 
reader, has anyone else already done this?


The Easyptr commands are the hardest syntax to remember of all the BASIC 
extensions, I think!


Dilwyn Jones
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Re: [Ql-Users] Easyptr manual

[Norman Dunbar]

On 08/06/12 14:16, Dilwyn Jones wrote:

Before I reinvent the wheel and OCR my Easyptr manual to use on my eBook 
reader, has anyone else already done this?

Not yet, no.


The Easyptr commands are the hardest syntax to remember of all the BASIC 
extensions, I think!

I'll second that!


Cheers,
Norm.

--
Norman Dunbar
Dunbar IT Consultants Ltd

Registered address:
Thorpe House
61 Richardshaw Lane
Pudsey
West Yorkshire
United Kingdom
LS28 7EL

Company Number: 05132767
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[ql-users] easyptr

[Dilwyn Jones]

With kind thanks to Marcel, I've been using a beta-release of the
68020 QPC2. Extremely stable for a first release!

I seem to have run into a minor problem with Easyptr 4 which I cannot
pin down enough to trouble Marcel with a definite bug report as yet,
so I need ot ask for help in tracking down a problem.

After altering some menus (usually changing objects in loose items or
resizing some objects) I seem to end up with out of memory errors at
the MDRAW statements when I run the basic program. But find it hard to
duplicate the error reliably.

Anyone else had this problem? It seems to go away if I reload the menu
and save it back out again a second time from Easyptr.

If anyone can replicate this error, please let me know so I can try to
send Marcel a meaningful message about it.

I'm using Easymenu 4.09E and QPC2 3.33 - unfortunately I haven't kept
older copies of QPC2 to see if this is exclusive to this version. I do
have the 68010 version alongside the 68020 version but so far I've
only run into the problem randomly on the 68020 version and don't know
if it's specific to that version or if the proiblem exists on other
versions too.

-- 
Dilwyn Jones



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Re: [ql-users] EASYPTR Application windows

[Dilwyn Jones]

I can't help François with this particular problem, but one situation 
where I have encountered this kind of out of range error before (where 
a supposedly matching size window and item result in out of range 
error) is where the item is LEFT justified. In fact, often, left 
justified is not truly left justified, it is often one or two pixels 
away fromt he left of the window. You can sometimes see this by 
displaying a text object in a loose item, then MWINDOW to that loose 
item and MINPUT the same same text, it will appear to move slightly to 
the left. When you set justify for an object in Easymenu, you'll see a 
value of 0 for centred. If you set left, top, bottom justified you'll 
see a value of 1 shown. Left justify seems to be any non-zero offset 
from the left of the loose item. I don't fully understand what is 
going on, but know of it well enough to know that if I am trying to 
fit an item exactly, I have to actually allow a couple of extra pixels 
when designing the loose item or menu layout because of this small 
offset.


--
Dilwyn Jones

- Original Message - 
From: François Van Emelen [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2005 3:57 PM
Subject: [ql-users] EASYPTR Application windows



Hi all,

How can I avoid the folowing error:

'at line .. value out of range'

MAWDRAW#3\3,grille$,0,0,0,cel_breedte%,12,1,1
where
\3(,3) = application window #3
grille$ = a 3 dimensional array
cel_breedte% = int array for the width of the individual columns
(cel_breedte%(x) can be from 2 up to 384)
The application window has been created with the option 'no menu'.

The error pops up when the sum of 
cel_breedte%(x)+cel_breedte%(x+1)... exceeds somewhat the width of 
the application window.


Any help is welcome.
François Van Emelen


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Re: [ql-users] EASYPTR Application windows

[Wolfgang Uhlig]

It seems to me if you expect to be able to see more than the window  
width you would have to send material to a notional piece of paper in  
the manner of a word processor or editor, to be viewed THROUGH your  
window. Conten to be stored in memory as an array, line by line. As to  
the third dimension ??? Seperate pages ?


It's not fair to take the mickey out of Francois because his question is  
totally

worth to be given some thoughts to.
Normally the window manager cares for providing of scrolling and panning if
the appwindow is too small for the array to be shown.
But there are special cases where this fails and the problem of Francois
is exactly such a case.

Wolfgang
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[ql-users] EASYPTR Application windows

[François Van Emelen]

Hi all,

How can I avoid the folowing error:

'at line .. value out of range'

MAWDRAW#3\3,grille$,0,0,0,cel_breedte%,12,1,1
where
\3(,3) = application window #3
grille$ = a 3 dimensional array
cel_breedte% = int array for the width of the individual columns
(cel_breedte%(x) can be from 2 up to 384)
The application window has been created with the option 'no menu'.

The error pops up when the sum of 
cel_breedte%(x)+cel_breedte%(x+1)... exceeds somewhat the width of 
the application window.


Any help is welcome.
François Van Emelen


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Re: [ql-users] EASYPTR Application windows

[David Tubbs]

At 16:57 30/06/2005 +0200, you wrote:


Hi all,

How can I avoid the folowing error:


Puts me in mind of the Irishman who, when asked for directions, said If I 
was going there I wouldn't start from here.



'at line .. value out of range'

MAWDRAW#3\3,grille$,0,0,0,cel_breedte%,12,1,1
It seems to me if you expect to be able to see more than the window width 
you would have to send material to a notional piece of paper in the 
manner of a word processor or editor, to be viewed THROUGH your window. 
Conten to be stored in memory as an array, line by line. As to the third 
dimension ??? Seperate pages ?





where
\3(,3) = application window #3
grille$ = a 3 dimensional array
cel_breedte% = int array for the width of the individual columns
(cel_breedte%(x) can be from 2 up to 384)
The application window has been created with the option 'no menu'.

The error pops up when the sum of cel_breedte%(x)+cel_breedte%(x+1)... 
exceeds somewhat the width of the application window.


Any help is welcome.
François Van Emelen


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[ql-users] Easyptr Move

[dilwyn.jones]

I tried sending this once, I think it never got past our server for some reason.

I got an email from someone who pointed out that some of the Launchpad programs 
can use the window outline and window content move facility of the new window 
manager and some can't (those just always use the standard window move icon 
method)

This rather puzzled me because the programs were all compiled with the same 
Easyptr and QLiberator versions.

I've since noticed that it's down to a difference in how the WMOV extension in 
Easyptr's toolkit works. (v3.50)

If you set a loose item object to have the code '5' so that it uses system 
move, you can use any of the window manager methods.

If you use WMOV there is only the old method available. You can't use any of 
the new methods. Sometimes you have to use WMOV. For example, the Launchpad 
clock runs in a MW_LINKed window so it has to be stopped before a move routine 
is called to move the main display.

Something to consider adding to the wish list for any new Easyptr updates I 
suppose, especially if a trivial change, although hardly a high priority.

Dilwyn Jones

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Re: [ql-users] Easyptr Move

[P Witte]

Dilwyn Jones writes:


 If you use WMOV there is only the old method available. You
 can't use any of the new methods. Sometimes you have to use
 WMOV. For example, the Launchpad clock runs in a MW_LINKed
 window so it has to be stopped before a move routine is
 called to move the main display.

 Something to consider adding to the wish list for any new
 Easyptr updates I suppose, especially if a trivial change,
 although hardly a high priority.

In the mean time you can use my Wrezmov toolkit which was designed as a
stopgap for exactly that problem.Available where? Knoware!

Per

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Re: [ql-users] EasyPtr

[Tony Firshman]

On  Tue, 8 Mar 2005 at 14:06:05, Dave P wrote:
(ref: [EMAIL PROTECTED])



On Tue, 8 Mar 2005, Roy wood wrote:

 Could be worse - could be Jochen and almost anything electrical. He is
 the only person I know whose washing machine has a software fault.

No, he isn't. :)

My washer would sometimes stop mid-cycle, and the LCD would display
##2##2##2##2##2isread

The repairman who fixed it under warranty said the on-board
microcontroller had a faulty EPROM, and that he would have to get a
replacement. I offered, and he accepted, for me to download the image, and
flash a 27512 I happened to have laying around. This gave me opportunities
for abuse... (and saved him a trip ;)

My washer now freaks the missus out by saying Hi Jimi instead of Door
Open on the display when she opens the lid (which she's not likely to see
as the lid obscures the LCD, but she noticed after a couple of months.
She's convinced Sears are tracking her laundry habits ;)
He he.
It is the same size as Minerva.  How about porting that.
It should write clean code (8-)#

Tony
-- 
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 tony@surname.co.uk  http://firshman.co.uk
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TF Services, 29 Longfield Road, TRING, Herts, HP23 4DG
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Re: [ql-users] EasyPtr was movig sbasic

[Wolfgang Uhlig]

Am Tue, 8 Mar 2005 22:59:14 - hat Dilwyn Jones  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] geschrieben:

Create a small menu, say one info window and one loose item. Do not  
MCALL, just MDRAW then try to MWINDOW to the loose item followed by  
MINPUT. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, sometimes it only  
works if the menu has not been changed since it was originally designed  
in Easymenu. Although to be fair I'm not sure it's a 'legal' routine:
This is indeed an EP-bug. I have known it for years but never found it a  
real problem. In my programs
loose Item no. 1 is always ESC. There is no need to give it another text  
or sprite.

Wolfgang
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Re: Re: [ql-users] EasyPtr

[dilwyn.jones]

  My little colour selection technique using PALETTE_QL seems to work OK
  in the simple programs I've tried it in.
 
 That might be, but all PALETTE_QL settings are global! You're changing
 the colours for ALL jobs this way.
Yes, I forgot to mention that.

At least running mode 4 colour scheme jobs can then be any colour you want. But 
agreed, it wouldn't be a very nice thing to do!

 I can send you the EasyMenu version that is around if you want
 to try a proper System Palette approach instead.
Yes please, that would be much appreciated to keep me going until an 'official' 
version is available.

If by email, send it to dilwyn DOT jones AT tesco DOT net, I can download that 
one at work or at home. At the moment, the other email addresses are home only.

Dilwyn Jones

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Re: [ql-users] EasyPtr was movig sbasic

[Wolfgang Uhlig]

Hi Marcel,
Is this all? Nobody else any problems? I won't promise anything, but
if I don't know what's wrong I certainly cannot change it.
I promise that I will never ever see you as THE person to ask for  
improvements of
EasyPtr ;) but I am happy that you do it :)

Okay then, one problem with the version of EaysMenu I have is, that there  
are problems
with changing manually the size of the main window.
First you cannot write numbers 999, while changing the window size with  
the mouse
allows bigger ones.
Second, x- y-coordinates of 0,0 (manually) crashes EasyMenu

Then I'd like to have a version af Appman whose configuration block is  
okay, in all versions
I have tried you can configure the path as often as you want, but the  
program doesn't accept it.
This is extremely annoying.
The other one is that Appman crashes the machine every now and then. But I  
suppose
this is difficult to explore because it doesn't happen always and it is  
not at all clear, under which
circumstances.

When there are more problems, whom am I to ask then? ;)))
Thanks a lot, without you the QL would be dead as a dodo.
Wolfgang
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Re: Re: [ql-users] EasyPtr was movig sbasic

[dilwyn.jones]

  3) Application window scroll bar attributes cannot be set or
  changed without specifying a pre-set menu too. Part of the problem
  may be with the toolkit which seems to ignore or overwrite
  attributes added by hand later.
 
 This sounds a bit complicated, especially as all the application menu
 stuff has always been somewhat of a mystery to me ;-)
I think I've ran into this problem too. I gave up, assuming I was doing 
something wrong. It was a long time ago, I haven't kept the example.


 Is this all? Nobody else any problems? I won't promise anything, but
 if I don't know what's wrong I certainly cannot change it.
Append sprites to a code file, put those in memory while writing and testing in 
SBASIC. You'll find you can't refer to them by name while resident in memory, 
only by address. Only tested with mode 4 sprites. So you have to refer to a 
sprite called mysprite as SPRA(mysprite) instead - in other words, when 
sprites are resident appended to an extensions file, you have to refer to them 
by address rather than name. Last tested on the pre-Marcel v3.50 Easyptr.

I asked Albin about this a couple of years ago and he said there was an issue 
with pointers to names in these situations and although he hadn't looked at the 
code at the time he feared it might be a big issue and recommended I stuck to 
referring to sprites by address rather than name.

To be fair, referring to sprites by name appended to an extensions file in 
memory from interpreted BaSIC is not a situation which occurs often, in my case 
it only happened because of the complexity of the use of sprites in Launchpad.

I am so pleased that some work is being done on Easyptr and promise I will be 
one of the first in the queue to pay for an update!

I'll look forward to being able to specify system palette colours if nothing 
else, although the improved handling of high colour sprites will be a useful 
bonus too.

Dilwyn Jones

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Re: [ql-users] EasyPtr

[Dave P]

On Tue, 8 Mar 2005, Roy wood wrote:

 Could be worse - could be Jochen and almost anything electrical. He is
 the only person I know whose washing machine has a software fault.

No, he isn't. :)

My washer would sometimes stop mid-cycle, and the LCD would display
##2##2##2##2##2isread

The repairman who fixed it under warranty said the on-board
microcontroller had a faulty EPROM, and that he would have to get a
replacement. I offered, and he accepted, for me to download the image, and
flash a 27512 I happened to have laying around. This gave me opportunities
for abuse... (and saved him a trip ;)

My washer now freaks the missus out by saying Hi Jimi instead of Door
Open on the display when she opens the lid (which she's not likely to see
as the lid obscures the LCD, but she noticed after a couple of months.
She's convinced Sears are tracking her laundry habits ;)

Dave

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Re: [ql-users] EasyPtr

[Dilwyn Jones]

I can just hear Roy muttering Dilwyn and his PC again...
Could be worse - could be Jochen and almost anything electrical. He 
is the only person I know whose washing machine has a software 
fault.

--
Roy Wood
The way Jochen has problems with domestic appliances, I'd be very 
surprised if Andrea allows him to put water and electricity into the 
same washing machine ;-)

--
Dilwyn Jones

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Re: [ql-users] EasyPtr

[Dilwyn Jones]

The repairman who fixed it under warranty said the on-board
microcontroller had a faulty EPROM, and that he would have to get a
replacement. I offered, and he accepted, for me to download the 
image, and
flash a 27512 I happened to have laying around. This gave me 
opportunities
for abuse... (and saved him a trip ;)

My washer now freaks the missus out by saying Hi Jimi instead of 
Door
Open on the display when she opens the lid (which she's not likely 
to see
as the lid obscures the LCD, but she noticed after a couple of 
months.
She's convinced Sears are tracking her laundry habits ;)

Dave
He he, I did something similar to my colleague's PC where I patched 
the configuration text in the sign-on of one of our Removals programs. 
Unfortunately, he mentioned it in front of the boss and I had to 
rather quickly patch it back to how it was.

The beauty of having QPC2 to hand, it was possible to find the text, 
load it into S-Edit in binary mode, overwrite the text with Welsh 
equivalent (my colleague is not a Welsh speaker) and save it back out 
again without too much fear of damaging anything as long as I didn't 
change any lengths in the file. The configuration was probably a text 
file but I didn't want to risk it.

For a couple of days he couldn't figure out why he was entering stuff 
in English and it came out in Welsh the following day when he signed 
back in. I think it's called Personalising Dave. Or in my colleague's 
case, revenge.

--
Dilwyn Jones


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Re: [ql-users] EasyPtr was movig sbasic

[Dilwyn Jones]

Is this all? Nobody else any problems? I won't promise anything, 
but
if I don't know what's wrong I certainly cannot change it.

Think the only other things which spring to mind are:
You cannot create an application sub-window menu with MAWDRAW or 
MAWSETUP  which only contains one item in the menu.
Yes, see my Q-Trans files window lists for how I work around this. If 
I have a directory with no or only one file listed, I have to ensure 
that the array passed to MAWDRAW or MAWSETUP always has 2 or more 
items. If I have less than 2 items, I display 2 but make the status of 
the extra ones to unavailable. It gets a border when the pointer is 
over it, but cannot be selected.

MITEM does not allow you to redraw the loose item - it should accept 
the ,  or \ separator in line with the other commands to force it to 
redraw the  item.  At the moment it ignores the separator.
Yes, you have to use MSTAT% or some such command to force a redraw.
One more VERY obscure problem.
Create a small menu, say one info window and one loose item. Do not 
MCALL, just MDRAW then try to MWINDOW to the loose item followed by 
MINPUT. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, sometimes it only 
works if the menu has not been changed since it was originally 
designed in Easymenu. Although to be fair I'm not sure it's a 'legal' 
routine:

MDRAW#0,menu
MWINDOW #0,-1
t$=something
MINPUT #0,t$
(I use it at one point in Launchpad and it refused to work at first, 
then I created the same menu from scratch and it now works, I have 
never been able to pin it down exactly).

--
Dilwyn Jones

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Re: [ql-users] EasyPtr was movig sbasic

[Marcel Kilgus]

Rich Mellor wrote:
 You cannot create an application sub-window menu with MAWDRAW or MAWSETUP
 which only contains one item in the menu.

I need example for that, as simple as possible.

 MITEM does not allow you to redraw the loose item - it should accept the ,
 or \ separator in line with the other commands to force it to redraw the
 item.  At the moment it ignores the separator.

Hmm, in the sources there is a note:
;14.04.97   MITEM nachzeichnen OK (nachzeichen = redraw)

So perhaps it is fixed but didn't get properly released.

 Is this an error? I have a note that WRES does not release MCALL -
 therefore any attempt to use MCALL after the WRES command will
 result in an IN USE error

If it is a bug I need a small example. Doesn't sound very high
priority, though.

Marcel

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Re: [ql-users] EasyPtr was movig sbasic

[Franois Van Emelen]

Wolfgang Uhlig schreef:
Am Sat, 05 Mar 2005 22:08:04 +0100 hat François Van Emelen
[EMAIL PROTECTED] geschrieben:
230 MDRAW#3,mysuqces$ :REMark mawdraw#3,4

Oh Francois, what's that? I don't know but one SuQcess and that's the one
of
me and Bob Spelten ;)
What's in a variable's name.
Line 230 comes from my QLDBAS_bas programme; my front end for the 
DBAS engine. It's 4895 line(s) long, 297.492B once Qliberated. 
I'll show a demo in Eindhoven at the end of the month... if my 
laptop is repaired :(

EasyMenu is not very good at displaying high colour sprites, you have 
to  fool it by putting a 4/8 mode sprite in front of each high colour 
sprite.
This is not true! Only if you want to have the sprites in mode 4 or 8, too.
Wolfgang
With my version of Easymenu (Easymenr_cde v3.50, ptrmenr_cde 
v3.50, easyptr_cde v3.50, easybmen_cde v3.03, easymenu_exe v3.06)

the following line doesn't display the high colour sprites at all 
if they aren't 'glued' to a 4/8 colour sprite.
280  FOR xx= 30 TO 1 STEP -1:MITEM#3,-xx,-2,SPRA(xx):END FOR 
xx:MLIDRAW#3
But they are displayed correctly if 'glued' to a 4/8 colour sprite.
All my sprites are created with a combination of Jérôme's Sprite 
Editor, PNGConv, BMP2SPRT_obj and chainsprites_bas except for my 
4/8 mode sprite used as 'glue'.

Is there something wrong with my sprites or in line 280?
I suppose my version of Easymenu is the latest official version.
François Van Emelen
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Re: [ql-users] EasyPtr was movig sbasic

[P Witte]

Wolfgang Uhlig writes:

  EasyMenu is not very good at displaying high colour sprites, you have to
  fool it by putting a 4/8 mode sprite in front of each high colour
sprite.

 This is not true! Only if you want to have the sprites in mode 4 or 8,
too.

Just to confuse things a bit more: Loose items and sprites drawn by SPRW can
be standard high colour sprites. However, the routines to display sprites in
regular menus, such as MAWDRAW, cannot cope with these, and require a mode
4/8 sprite to be prepended to a hicolor one. The fix could be very simple if
one were able to read the code, find the problem and re-assemble it again,
but as mentioned before, some of those steps are not straight forward..

Per

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Re: [ql-users] EasyPtr was movig sbasic

[Dilwyn Jones]

I have been using this for quite some time now, even in my Email
reader. Easymenu can do much more than we first thought.
You miss the point. It can't do much of this without quite a lot of 
lateral thinking and programming around limitations.

This is exactly what people want corrected.
--
Dilwyn Jones

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Re: [ql-users] EasyPtr was movig sbasic

[Marcel Kilgus]

P Witte wrote:
 1) Manually added scaling flags are removed on re-loading a menu definition
 and may even crash the program. 2) System sprites cant be shown and other
 hicolour sprites are problematic. 3) Application window scroll bar
 attributes cannot be set or changed without specifying a pre-set menu too.
 Part of the problem may be with the toolkit which seems to ignore or
 overwrite attributes added by hand later. 4) When changing the sprite origen
 of a, if the pointer sprite is moved outside the window EasyMen crashes.

OK, noted. But basically I was only going to address high colour
problems, though if time permits and the job is simple enough I might
look into some others. No promises though.

 A great stop-gap improvement to this program might be to allow a
 menu definition to be saved as an assembler file directly from the
 program (EasyAsm doesnt work in GD2)

No, that is much too difficult. But EasySource can easily be made to
be GD2 compliant. IIRC all that's needed is to change one branch
instruction.

Marcel

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Re: [ql-users] EasyPtr was movig sbasic

[Marcel Kilgus]

Dilwyn Jones wrote:
 1. I can't change the colour of the border or main window unless I
 cover the main window with an info window. If Easyptr allowed, say,
 MWINDOW #0,0 for the main outline it might then be possible to change
 the main menu colour.

Use system palette colours in the menu and define a private system
palette (somewhat contradictory name, but every job can have its own
system palette) before drawing the menu. No flashing, no poking in the
window definition.

 MSETUP #0,mymenu:rem don't show original on screen
 REMark change colours before originals are drawn
 MCOLOUR #0,menu_element_number,colour_number
 MDRAW #0 : REM draw in new colours

 it might be possible for me to do what I want, whichis to allow users
 to specify colours in a config block and set these at runtime.

Yes, easily possible using the mentioned method.

Marcel

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Re: [ql-users] EasyPtr

[Wolfgang Uhlig]

Am Sun, 6 Mar 2005 13:34:19 - hat Dilwyn Jones  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] geschrieben:

You totally miss the point of my email.
You Wrote:
It would be useful if the menu colours could be changed at runtime. At
the moment, once they are defined in the Easymenu layout, that's it,
the colours are fixed unless you manipulate the colour palettes or
whatever.
And I say this is absolutely not true. Where do I miss your point?
On the one hand you say: changing colours at runtime is _impossible_
and on the other hand: the windows are flashing (when I change the  
colour)
Only one can be right, right?

What I do see as a problem, is that you cannot define (system) colours in  
the
official version of Easymenu and indeed have to find workarounds within the
Basic program.
With the unofficial version of Marcel this is not any problem any more.  
That's why
I think that everybody should have it.

Your flashing problem (QCoCo must be a pain for your eyes!) has a simple  
solution: Get a
faster machine ;)

Wolfgang
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Re: [ql-users] EasyPtr was movig sbasic

[Marcel Kilgus]

François Van Emelen wrote:
 Some functions/procedures need improvement. For example 'RPXL%'
 (returns the pixel colour at a given position) only works in QL 
 colours.

This is an SMSQ/E limitation.

 About TurboPtr: the demo George showed us in Eindhoven(QL2004)
 didn't convince me to abandon EasyMenu.

Yes, I think the Menu generator is essential. But perhaps the toolkit
could be used together with EasyMenu? I have no idea.

 the following line doesn't display the high colour sprites at all if
 they aren't 'glued' to a 4/8 colour sprite.

Right, the sprite identifiers are hard coded into MITEM, pretty easy
to change this, though.

Marcel

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Re: [ql-users] EasyPtr was movig sbasic

[Marcel Kilgus]

Dilwyn Jones wrote:
 I'm not sure I can enter system palette colours in standard Easyptr
 can I?

No, I thought you had the newer one, haven't really kept track of it.

Marcel

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Re: [ql-users] EasyPtr was movig sbasic

[P Witte]

Marcel Kilgus writes:

 P Witte wrote:
  1) Manually added scaling flags are removed on re-loading a menu
definition
  and may even crash the program. 2) System sprites cant be shown and
other
  hicolour sprites are problematic. 3) Application window scroll bar
  attributes cannot be set or changed without specifying a pre-set menu
too.
  Part of the problem may be with the toolkit which seems to ignore or
  overwrite attributes added by hand later. 4) When changing the sprite
origen
  of a, if the pointer sprite is moved outside the window EasyMen crashes.

.. of a menu,

 OK, noted. But basically I was only going to address high colour
 problems, though if time permits and the job is simple enough I might
 look into some others. No promises though.

Sorry, it wasnt intended as a shopping list. I just wrote down a few
problems that I could think of. Great if you feel like doing something about
it. Just your little tweak to allow palette colours to be used has been very
helpful.

  A great stop-gap improvement to this program might be to allow a
  menu definition to be saved as an assembler file directly from the
  program (EasyAsm doesnt work in GD2)

 No, that is much too difficult. But EasySource can easily be made to
 be GD2 compliant. IIRC all that's needed is to change one branch
 instruction.

That would be very useful!

Per

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Re: [ql-users] EasyPtr

[Dilwyn Jones]

I said I wasn't going to write more on this, but as this will be a bit 
more positive, I thought I'd at least try to make amends for the 
negative emails.

This listing shows one way of getting 8 colours of your choice in the 
menus.

Using colours 0 to 7 (black, blue,...yellow, white) it uses the 
PALETTE_QL extension to redefine those colours.

The example below enables menus to display in 8 shades of grey 
(including black). You won't get more than 8 colours from an Easymenu 
menu even in high colour mode, and all menus are subject tot he same 
colours, but at least they can be any 8 colours from the range 
available, not just the usual QL black green red and white (and blue 
magenta, cyan and yellow if you like).

The colour number values have to be 'true' colours, the 24-bit values. 
The example below uses 8 shades of grey instead of 8 colours. The 
colour numbers are of course (red*65536)+(green*256)+(blue) where red, 
green and blue can have values from 0 to 255 inclusive.

Lines 110 to 180 could be a configuration block set of values defining 
or altering the colour scheme. In essence allows me to achieve at 
least some of what I wanted, although it's recolouring rather than 
specifying colours of item types.

The CHECK extension in line 200 simply checks for the presence of the 
keyword PALETTE_QL, if it's not present the program uses the 
pre-defined menu colours. There's plenty of equivalent keywords out 
there such as EXISTS, I think Per Witte's website also has one 
(FINDNAME% ???). It might be possible to check screen mode or whatever 
else you feel might be necessary.

I haven't exactly tried it on any of my compiled programs, but I guess 
if I added something like this to Launchpad you probably wouldn't be 
stuck with white background and red and green (fixed mode 4-style 
colour scheme). Programs which used a technique like this could 
probably be configured to reasonably fit in with whatever colour 
scheme your GD2 programs are set to.

100 REMark map the colours to grey shades
110 white   = 255*65536+255*256+255
120 yellow  = 216*65536+216*256+216
130 cyan= 180*65536+180*256+180
140 green   = 144*65536+144*256+144
150 magenta = 108*65536+108*256+108
160 red = 72*65536+72*256+72
170 blue= 36*65536+36*256+36
180 black   = 0
190 :
200 IF CHECK('palette_ql') THEN
210  REMark define the 7 colours starting from 0 (black)
210   PALETTE_QL 0,black,blue,red,magenta,green,cyan,yellow,white
220 END IF
230 :
240 MDRAW #0,win1_testmenu_men
250 :
260 REPeat loop
270   num = MCALL (#0)
280   IF num 0 THEN EXIT loop:REM click on a loose item to quit
290 END REPeat loop
300 MCLEAR#0
Dilwyn Jones 


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Re: [ql-users] EasyPtr was movig sbasic

[jms1]

- Original Message -
From: P Witte [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, March 04, 2005 6:28 PM
Subject: Re: [ql-users] EasyPtr was movig sbasic
Snip


 Although, in the fullness of time, the tools that George has
 produced to go with TurboPtr, may become replacements for
 EasyMen, they are by no means there just yet - at least not
 last I looked. However, that is another possibility for the
 future.


I think you can do most things with setw  TurboTptr or Cptr that a
programmer would want.
So what do you think is missing?

What do you think should be done to improve the suite?

Snip

 Per

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Re: [ql-users] EasyPtr was movig sbasic

[jms1]

- Original Message -
From: Wolfgang Uhlig [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, March 04, 2005 8:33 PM
Subject: Re: [ql-users] EasyPtr was movig sbasic


 P Witte [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  We can live without a good menu designer or a sprite editor,
  but not without a way of displaying and manipulating our
  windows and menus from within programs, so for me that is
  the main priority.

 As to me, I can live without a sprite editor because it's possible to
 create sprites
 in other ways.
 A menu designer à la Easymenu_exe is (and has always been) indispensable
 for me when
 writing my programs for the QL. This is why my disappointment is so great
 at the moment.


You can design menus in setw in TurboPTR.
George has also written a program to convert EasyPtr windows to TurboPTR
You can them use them for C in Cptr as well.
George is also considering adapting setw so it produces. data files for
assembler.
A little interest from the group will encourage him!

 When I started to write programs for/on the QL many years ago, it was
 because EP made it
 so easy. I was already a mouse-user when most QL-users still thought of
 a computer-mouse
 as the beginning of the end of the world and only Roy dared to have
 BUTTONS on his desktop ;)
 EP has been my companion and my motivation on the QL. Without it probably
 none of my programs
 would have seen the world and I would have left the QL-scene long ago.


George also has tools in his suite to create buttons from pictures and setw
automatically produces text buttons for programs.
Setw enables you to produce menu buttons as well.

 During the last two or three years I have always hoped that anyone
 (especially Marcel)
 would update EP. In only _one_ of his long nights Marcel succeeded in
 bringing Easymenu to a state
 where it can work with colours and 3-D borders!
 Marcel says, it is not perfect yet.
 I say, it's so much better now and I would even pay for _this_ one, if he
 asked me to.
 I am convinced that there would be hardly any EP-owner and -user who would
 NOT pay for such a
 version. The ones I know, wouldn't.
 It is so frustrating and annoying that it cannot be given or sold to other
 users!

 I am frustrated because of all things, we urgently need to make the QL
 survive, software (good, interesting,
 funny, useful and whatever programs) is the most important. A colourful
 game and a new desktop are not
 more than a drop in the bucket.

 Please you people out there, who really have the knowledge to write
 utilities
 which enable us lower gods to write software,
 which make it really easy to create it,
 which just motivate us to make a start,
 please just do it!

 Wolfgang


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Re: [ql-users] EasyPtr was movig sbasic

[François Van Emelen]

P Witte schreef:
SNIP
Its a pity Albin is no longer interested in developing EP,
but thats life. It needent be such a big task, though. IMHO
EP could be split into three or four different projects: 1)
EasyMen, 2) EasySprite, 3) the toolkit, 4) C-stuff.
1) EasyMenu:
In fact I would be happy with the enhancements already available 
to some of you:
a) the possibility to design the windows in high/palette/system 
colours.
b) the possibility to resize those windows in Sbasic (your 
MSPRV_obj proves it is possible).
2) EasySprite:
An upgrade is not really necessary as there are alternatives at 
our disposal: Jerôme's Sprite Editor,BMPSPRT_obj (Wolfgang 
Lenerz),Snatch (?) could be adapted to save in 'sprite format' 
instead of 'pic format' and for QPC2 users there is PNGConv 
(Marcel Kilgus).
3) the Toolkit:
Some functions/procedures need improvement. For example 'RPXL%' 
(returns the pixel colour at a given position) only works in QL 
colours.
Including the toolkit in SMSQE is not an option for me: its 
functions/procedures would be available from the start, that would 
probably make some existing programmes unuseable because of 
keyword clashes.( see the messages about 'RESET')
C) C-stuff: No comments here as I'm limited to Sbasic.

About TurboPtr: the demo George showed us in Eindhoven(QL2004) 
didn't convince me to abandon EasyMenu.

SNIP
We can live without a good menu designer or a sprite editor,
I can't else I wouldn't wait for an upgrade.
but not without a way of displaying and manipulating our
windows and menus from within programs, so for me that is
the main priority.
Per
Wolfgang Uhlig asked us to fix a price... Well, I'm willing to pay 
 about 50 Euros for an upgrade.
François Van Emelen

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Re: [ql-users] EasyPtr was movig sbasic

[Marcel Kilgus]

wolfgang mühlegger wrote:
 but why did he do it then?

Just for fun.

 and why did he give it to beta-testers then?

There were no beta testers. I just gave it to some people and said
look, mom, without hands.

Marcel

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Re: [ql-users] EasyPtr was movig sbasic

[gwicks]

- Original Message - 
From: wolfgang mühlegger
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, March 04, 2005 9:06 PM
Subject: Re: [ql-users] EasyPtr was movig sbasic


gwicks schrieb:
Nevertheless Marcel has already made a considerable improvement to 
EasyPtr, but as yet it is only available to a few beta testers. A pity 
for this work to be wasted by not being available (for a payment) to a 
wider group of users.
but why did he do it then?
and why did he give it to beta-testers then?
As I understand it the history is as follows:
When QL-ers first started to program in GD2 colours, the possibility of 
upgrading EasyPtr was raised including a lot of discussion on this list. 
Just out of interest Marcel took a look at it and working through the night 
produced a version that could use GD2 colours directly. He sent copies to 
one or two people whom he knew were actively attempting to write programs in 
EasyPtr using the colours. I put beta-testers in inverted commas because 
this was probably not their intended role.

At this stage there was some doubt over the legal position, which in itself 
led to a lot of misunderstanding because no one had thought of asking Albin. 
I understand that he is quite happy for the program to be upgraded.

When I last saw the upgraded version all it did was allow you to use GD2 
colours directly, but nothing else. For example, if you use high resolution 
sprites you have to load these into EasyMenu every time you make changes to 
a menu. This can be a bit of a pain in the neck if you have a lot of sprites 
in a program. (And we should remember that the new sprite technology means 
that we should be wanting to include more sprites and more sophisticated 
sprites in our programs.) I am not sure what changes have been made to the 
upgraded EasyPtr since I last saw it, but I can understand if Marcel says it 
is not yet ready for release. We have come to expect a high standard from 
Marcel, and thus we should respect his opinion on this and not pressure him 
to release an incomplete product.

It would be helpful if we could have an indication how far EasyPtr has 
developed and what is left to do. Then the sort of suggestions that Per made 
could be considered.

BTW this is just the sort of topic that could be discussed at Eindhoven on 
18th June if we are successful in getting the After-Glow Show off the 
ground,

Best Wishes,
Geoff 

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Re: [ql-users] EasyPtr was movig sbasic

[Franois Van Emelen]

gwicks schreef:
SNIP
When I last saw the upgraded version all it did was allow you to use GD2 
colours directly, but nothing else. For example, if you use high 
resolution sprites you have to load these into EasyMenu every time you 
make changes to a menu.
This is not true. Once your window is ready, save it in the usual 
way. Create your XXX_cde file (ptrmenr_cde, window definition 
designed with Easymenu, and add all your sprites ). Of course the 
sprites have to be in the correct order (first sprite for Loose 
Item -1, 2nd sprite for Loose Item -2, and so on).
In your Sbasic program you could do something like this:
(extract from my Front End for DBAS)
230 MDRAW#3,mysuqces$ :REMark mawdraw#3,4
280  FOR xx= 30 TO 1 STEP -1:MITEM#3,-xx,-2,SPRA(xx):  :END FOR 
xx:MLIDRAW#3
Et voilà.
Of course you wouldn't see those sprites next time you load 
EasyMenu to modify a menu but you don't have to reload them each 
and every time.
Mind you (correct English?)
EasyMenu is not very good at displaying high colour sprites, you 
have to fool it by putting a 4/8 mode sprite in front of each high 
colour sprite. This can be done with a small sbasic program 
Wolgang Lenerz published somewhere (on this list or in QLToday).It 
is about 20 lines long and is called 'chainsprites_bas'. I have 
created tens of sprites with this method.

I have been using this for quite some time now, even in my Email 
reader. Easymenu can do much more than we first thought.

SNIP
It would be helpful if we could have an indication how far EasyPtr has 
developed and what is left to do. Then the sort of suggestions that Per 
made could be considered.

BTW this is just the sort of topic that could be discussed at Eindhoven 
on 18th June if we are successful in getting the After-Glow Show off the 
ground,
That would be a good idea!
Best Wishes,
Geoff
François Van Emelen
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Re: [ql-users] EasyPtr was movig sbasic

[Dilwyn Jones]

Geoff Wicks wrote:
As I understand it the history is as follows:
When QL-ers first started to program in GD2 colours, the possibility
of upgrading EasyPtr was raised including a lot of discussion on
this list. Just out of interest Marcel took a look at it and working
through the night produced a version that could use GD2 colours
directly. He sent copies to one or two people whom he knew were
actively attempting to write programs in EasyPtr using the colours.
I put beta-testers in inverted commas because this was probably
not their intended role.
At this stage there was some doubt over the legal position, which in
itself led to a lot of misunderstanding because no one had thought
of asking Albin. I understand that he is quite happy for the program
to be upgraded.
When I last saw the upgraded version all it did was allow you to use
GD2 colours directly, but nothing else. For example, if you use high
resolution sprites you have to load these into EasyMenu every time
you make changes to a menu. This can be a bit of a pain in the neck
if you have a lot of sprites in a program. (And we should remember
that the new sprite technology means that we should be wanting to
include more sprites and more sophisticated sprites in our
programs.) I am not sure what changes have been made to the upgraded
EasyPtr since I last saw it, but I can understand if Marcel says it
is not yet ready for release. We have come to expect a high standard
from Marcel, and thus we should respect his opinion on this and not
pressure him to release an incomplete product.
It would be helpful if we could have an indication how far EasyPtr
has developed and what is left to do. Then the sort of suggestions
that Per made could be considered.
BTW this is just the sort of topic that could be discussed at
Eindhoven on 18th June if we are successful in getting the
After-Glow Show off the ground,
Best Wishes,
Geoff
Well said as usual Geoff.
I hope that any update to Easyptr would allow some changes in the
colour handling on the toolkit extensions side as well.
It would be useful if menu colours could be made to assume the new
Window Manager colours in some form (standard appearances and all
that), e.g. specifying a negative colour number or some special
setting picked a standard window manager colour scheme or whatever. I
haven't thought this through, I don't even know if it's
possible/desirable.
It would be useful if the menu colours could be changed at runtime. At
the moment, once they are defined in the Easymenu layout, that's it,
the colours are fixed unless you manipulate the colour palettes or
whatever. It might be possible to hack around in the working
definition to set the colours if someone was prepared to write such
extensions, but I don't know if this sort of code could be achieved
legally.
The nice thing with Easymenu in particular is that you can just
visually create menus without worrying too much about endless lists of
data as you have to with some other older PE development tools. If you
want to explicitly set loose item, menu, or window sizes you can do
so, but don't have to. If you want to, you can just size them by
appearance, especially if you use text loose items when you don't have
to worry too much about pixel perfect fit and endless lists.
We would need to get the resize flag mechanism implemented too,
although there is an extension by Per Witte which will help with that
for existing menus if you are prepared to play around with the working
definition a bit. Which sums up the existing Easyptr - you have to
think laterally and go the extra mile to achieve anything useful (ref.
Wolfgang's colours article in QL Today Vol 8 Issue 5 page 8).
Since Easyptr will probably be the source of the majority of any new
applications, effort deserves to be focused on that a bit I'd have
thought. I do hope that development does get going though, even if it
turns out to be easier to write a similar new product than trying to
rehash uncommented old code or whatever.
--
Dilwyn Jones

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Re: [ql-users] EasyPtr was movig sbasic

[Marcel Kilgus]

gwicks wrote:
 At this stage there was some doubt over the legal position, which in
 itself led to a lot of misunderstanding because no one had thought
 of asking Albin. I understand that he is quite happy for the program
 to be upgraded.

Yes, he basically said that anything I choose to do is fine with him.

 When I last saw the upgraded version all it did was allow you to use
 GD2 colours directly, but nothing else. For example, if you use high
 resolution sprites you have to load these into EasyMenu every time
 you make changes to a menu.

Right. It was able to load the raw sprites, because then it just took
that junk of memory, but when embedded into a menu it tried to make a
copy of it and of course completely failed.

 This can be a bit of a pain in the neck if you have a lot of sprites
 in a program. (And we should remember that the new sprite technology
 means that we should be wanting to include more sprites and more
 sophisticated sprites in our programs.)

Actually that was part of the problem. The sprite definition became so
complex that it was a pain to support it for EasyMenu. As said, I have
done most code now (which should ultimatively be part of SMSQ/E so
others in this situation don't have to do it again), but it is not
debugged.

 I am not sure what changes have been made to the upgraded EasyPtr
 since I last saw it, but I can understand if Marcel says it is not
 yet ready for release. We have come to expect a high standard from
 Marcel, and thus we should respect his opinion on this and not
 pressure him to release an incomplete product.

That's exactly the point. At least without working sprite support it
was just a nice toy, not fit for anything really. With it, it looks
somewhat better. But I do have high standards for myself, especially
if ever any money would change hands for it.

Marcel

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Re: [ql-users] EasyPtr was movig sbasic

[James Hunkins]

Myself for another.
jim
On Mar 3, 2005, at 11:17 PM, François Van Emelen wrote:
Roy wood schreef:
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], gwicks 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes
Snip
Easyptr is still a commercial program sold by Jochen and I

On the subject of EasyPtr any news of a possible upgrade?
The upgrade situation is not easy. I do have an updated version of 
Easymenu and Easysprite but they are by no means releasable as Marcel 
considers them unfinished. The question is would there be a market 
for an updated version. Marcel does a lo of work on this kind of 
thing and gets little back for it. He has the source files but I 
cannot, in all honesty, ask him to work for nothing. He says that the 
code is not that easy to understand so he is the ideal person to do 
it. I would like to see and improved high colour version and I, for 
one, would be willing to pay for this. How many others?
I don't know how many but I would be one of them.
François Van Emelen
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Re: [ql-users] EasyPtr was movig sbasic

[Wolfgang Uhlig]

The question is would there be a market for an updated version. Marcel  
does a lo of work on this kind of thing and gets little back for it. He  
has the source files but I cannot, in all honesty, ask him to work for  
nothing. He says that the code is not that easy to understand so he is  
the ideal person to do it. I would like to see and improved high colour  
version and I, for one, would be willing to pay for this. How many  
others?
I am a liittle bit astonished because AFAIR there were many people in  
Eindhoven
2004 already who pointed out that they would be willing to pay for an  
upgraded
version of EasyPtr. Nevertheless nothing happens exept for the question in  
this
group every now and then, whether there will be an upgrade or not.
When I asked Marcel personally some weeks ago, he told me that he is not  
at all
interested to do it.
So what is true?
I would definitely want to have an upgrade (and pay for it ofcourse) and  
think that
we need it urgently.
So, as far as I am concerned,  please stop discussing it, fix a price for  
it and begin to DO it.

Wolfgang
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Re: Re: [ql-users] EasyPtr was movig sbasic

[dilwyn.jones]

  Easyptr is still a commercial program sold by Jochen and I
 
  On the subject of EasyPtr any news of a possible upgrade?
  The upgrade situation is not easy. I do have an updated version of  
  Easymenu and Easysprite but they are by no means releasable as Marcel  
  considers them unfinished. The question is would there be a market for  
  an updated version. Marcel does a lo of work on this kind of thing and  
  gets little back for it. He has the source files but I cannot, in all  
  honesty, ask him to work for nothing. He says that the code is not that  
  easy to understand so he is the ideal person to do it. I would like to  
  see and improved high colour version and I, for one, would be willing to  
  pay for this. How many others?
I'm definitely booking one for me, I use it all the time. I'd definitely pay 
for an upgrade, I have either a v3.05 or v3.50 (can't remember which, I think 
the latter) at the moment.

Dilwyn Jones

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Re: Re: [ql-users] EasyPtr was movig sbasic

[dilwyn.jones]

 I would definitely want to have an upgrade (and pay for it ofcourse) and  
 think that
 we need it urgently.
 So, as far as I am concerned,  please stop discussing it, fix a price for  
 it and begin to DO it.
 
 Wolfgang
Agreed, Wolfgang. QPCprint will appeal only to QPC2 users, so a small market. 
Marcel is confident enough of that, so I can't see there'd be a problem selling 
similar numbers of a new Easyptr better suited to GD2 use. Presumably, anyone 
like me who uses it to produce programs at the moment would buy an enhanced 
version.

Easyptr in theory appeals to all QLers, but of course only to the programmers. 
The old Part 1 makes it quite easy to create simple menus, while Part 2 lets 
those confident enough to do more advanced things with it create those advanced 
programs. It also has a C68-related package, although I don't know if that's up 
to date and widely used.

C68 and compiled basic are the only two widely used programming languages and 
tools for the QL (apart from assembler) and QPTR, SPACE, John Miller's Ptr 
Toolkit (or whatever it was called) and all those aren't widely used. Even 
TurboPTR doesn't get mentioned much, so I wonder if many people are using that? 
(I don't because I never get time to learn it!)

In the absence of other widely used tools, I'd say we have to give strong 
consideration to developing Easyptr or something similar if developing Easyptr 
is considered too big a job.

Dilwyn Jones

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Re: [ql-users] EasyPtr was movig sbasic

[Fabrizio Diversi]

Me too.
Fabrizio
- Original Message - 
From: Roy wood [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, March 04, 2005 1:08 AM
Subject: Re: [ql-users] EasyPtr was movig sbasic


In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], gwicks 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes
- Original Message - From: Roy wood Subject: Re: [ql-users] 
movig sbasic


Easyptr is still a commercial program sold by Jochen and I
On the subject of EasyPtr any news of a possible upgrade?
The upgrade situation is not easy. I do have an updated version of 
Easymenu and Easysprite but they are by no means releasable as Marcel 
considers them unfinished. The question is would there be a market for 
an updated version. Marcel does a lo of work on this kind of thing and 
gets little back for it. He has the source files but I cannot, in all 
honesty, ask him to work for nothing. He says that the code is not that 
easy to understand so he is the ideal person to do it. I would like to 
see and improved high colour version and I, for one, would be willing to 
pay for this. How many others?
--
Roy Wood
Q Branch. 20 Locks Hill, Portslade, Sussex.BN41 2LB
Tel: +44 (0) 1273 386030fax: +44 (0) 1273 430501  skype : royqbranch
web : www.qbranch.demon.co.uk

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Re: [ql-users] EasyPtr was movig sbasic

[P Witte]

Roy wood writes:

 The upgrade situation is not easy. I do have an updated version of
 Easymenu and Easysprite but they are by no means releasable as Marcel
 considers them unfinished. The question is would there be a market for
 an updated version. Marcel does a lo of work on this kind of thing and
 gets little back for it. He has the source files but I cannot, in all
 honesty, ask him to work for nothing. He says that the code is not that
 easy to understand so he is the ideal person to do it. I would like to
 see and improved high colour version and I, for one, would be willing to
 pay for this. How many others?

Its a pity Albin is no longer interested in developing EP,
but thats life. It needent be such a big task, though. IMHO
EP could be split into three or four different projects: 1)
EasyMen, 2) EasySprite, 3) the toolkit, 4) C-stuff.

1) Marcel has already done some work on this. If what he has
done so far is reasonably stable and useful, why not release
that for an upgrade fee (with Albin's blessing, of course)?
It might even generate a few new sales of the whole package?

Although, in the fullness of time, the tools that George has
produced to go with TurboPtr, may become replacements for
EasyMen, they are by no means there just yet - at least not
last I looked. However, that is another possibility for the
future.

2) I understand from Albin that this could be quite
difficult to upgrade due to the way it is designed. It could
be dropped altogether if there were viable alternative
developments. How about Jerome's sprite editor? Or how about
a more generalised spin-off of Jim's Icon Edit?

3) The EasyPointer keywords are mainly wrappers for the
underlying Wman utilities. Wouldnt it be great if some (if
not all) of those commands were to be included in SMSQE - or
rather in Wman2? From my brief assessment of the toolkit, it
seems to me the whole thing could be simplified and purified
(to do away with the easymen Thing, for example) and
improved. It neednt be compatible, but rather a replacement.

The reason Im not enamoured of Qptr, the original PE
toolkit, is the way it gets the user data into the Wman. It
is superficially attractive to have all your data easily
available and manageable from Basic. The problem for me is
that there can be so much data to deal with that it swamps
out the functional code. Although there are ways of
minimising the hassle, it is still not ideal as, in effect,
you have up to four copies of the window definition data in
memory at the same time (DATA statement data gets put into
arrays, which are copied to a Window Definition, which again
is copied to a Working Definition). Also it is relatively
fiddly to design and alter objects in this way. The EP
approach of editing the design in a designated program and
then linking the binary data to the code, compiled or
interpreted, seems to me to be simpler, cheaper and more
flexible.

4) Something for the C-fraternity to get their teeth into?

So we come to the fraught question of who would do the work.
Adding the toolkit to the Wman module could be an open
project to go hand-in-hand with SMSQE development. The main
thing would be to get off to a good start - perhaps initiated
by one of the cognoscenti - and then building up the
functionality over time. Even someone at my level could
contribute there.

We can live without a good menu designer or a sprite editor,
but not without a way of displaying and manipulating our
windows and menus from within programs, so for me that is
the main priority.

Per

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Re: [ql-users] EasyPtr was movig sbasic

[Roy wood]

In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Wolfgang Uhlig 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes
SNIP
I am a liittle bit astonished because AFAIR there were many people in 
Eindhoven
2004 already who pointed out that they would be willing to pay for an 
upgraded
version of EasyPtr. Nevertheless nothing happens exept for the question 
in  this
group every now and then, whether there will be an upgrade or not.
Well how many is many and what would you update ? The extensions all 
seem OK and the problems seem to lie in the menu and sprite generation 
software. Now if this is what needs to be done the answer may lie in 
wring a new program to generate menus  and sprites in high colour mode 
that follow the EASYPTR standard and will work with the extensions. How 
hard or easy this is I cannot say
When I asked Marcel personally some weeks ago, he told me that he is 
not  at all
interested to do it.
I did not say he was interested in doing it just that he was the ideal 
person to do it. I gather that the code is very hard to work with as I 
said and I also get the impression that he does not want to do it.
So what is true?
I would definitely want to have an upgrade (and pay for it ofcourse) 
and think that
we need it urgently.
So, as far as I am concerned,  please stop discussing it, fix a price 
for  it and begin to DO it.
It is all very well to say this but how do you get someone to do it?
Now I realise that you will all say 'make it open source and then 
legions of talented programmers will spring from the stone that they 
shelter under to avoid the heat of the commercial world and do it' . 
Being realistic and seeing the vast amount of work these people have 
provided us with so far you can appreciate I am not holding my breath 
here.

What I will say it this. As one of the two people who are licensed to 
sell this I will listen to anyone who may want to make a serious attempt 
at writing new menu and sprite generators for Easypointer and I am 
willing to be the vector for anyone who would like to sell these 
programs. In the case of the sprite generator I am sure Jim will give 
you the info you need to make a converter to allow you to export sprites 
from his QDT Icon program. I also think this is an important project and 
should tackled so I am happy to support it any way possible (except that 
I cannot directly pay anyone to do it).

If someone would like to do it for free they would be free to distribute 
it so long as they do not include any of the copyright Easypointer 
components.

Contact me if you want to take up the challenge.
--
Roy Wood
Q Branch. 20 Locks Hill, Portslade, Sussex.BN41 2LB
Tel: +44 (0) 1273 386030fax: +44 (0) 1273 430501  skype : royqbranch
web : www.qbranch.demon.co.uk
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Re: [ql-users] EasyPtr was movig sbasic

[wolfgang mhlegger]

James Hunkins schrieb:
Myself for another.
jim
On Mar 3, 2005, at 11:17 PM, François Van Emelen wrote:
Roy wood schreef:
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], gwicks 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes
Snip
Easyptr is still a commercial program sold by Jochen and I

On the subject of EasyPtr any news of a possible upgrade?
The upgrade situation is not easy. I do have an updated version of 
Easymenu and Easysprite but they are by no means releasable as Marcel 
considers them unfinished. The question is would there be a market 
for an updated version. Marcel does a lo of work on this kind of 
thing and gets little back for it. He has the source files but I 
cannot, in all honesty, ask him to work for nothing. He says that the 
code is not that easy to understand so he is the ideal person to do 
it. I would like to see and improved high colour version and I, for 
one, would be willing to pay for this. How many others?
I don't know how many but I would be one of them.
François Van Emelen
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an another one: me too
wolfgang
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Re: [ql-users] EasyPtr was movig sbasic

[Wolfgang Uhlig]

P Witte [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
We can live without a good menu designer or a sprite editor,
but not without a way of displaying and manipulating our
windows and menus from within programs, so for me that is
the main priority.
As to me, I can live without a sprite editor because it's possible to  
create sprites
in other ways.
A menu designer à la Easymenu_exe is (and has always been) indispensable  
for me when
writing my programs for the QL. This is why my disappointment is so great  
at the moment.

When I started to write programs for/on the QL many years ago, it was  
because EP made it
so easy. I was already a mouse-user when most QL-users still thought of  
a computer-mouse
as the beginning of the end of the world and only Roy dared to have  
BUTTONS on his desktop ;)
EP has been my companion and my motivation on the QL. Without it probably  
none of my programs
would have seen the world and I would have left the QL-scene long ago.

During the last two or three years I have always hoped that anyone  
(especially Marcel)
would update EP. In only _one_ of his long nights Marcel succeeded in  
bringing Easymenu to a state
where it can work with colours and 3-D borders!
Marcel says, it is not perfect yet.
I say, it's so much better now and I would even pay for _this_ one, if he  
asked me to.
I am convinced that there would be hardly any EP-owner and -user who would  
NOT pay for such a
version. The ones I know, wouldn't.
It is so frustrating and annoying that it cannot be given or sold to other  
users!

I am frustrated because of all things, we urgently need to make the QL  
survive, software (good, interesting,
funny, useful and whatever programs) is the most important. A colourful  
game and a new desktop are not
more than a drop in the bucket.

Please you people out there, who really have the knowledge to write  
utilities
which enable us lower gods to write software,
which make it really easy to create it,
which just motivate us to make a start,
please just do it!

Wolfgang
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