Re: [R-sig-phylo] multiple traits measured within species

2012-03-13 Thread Kaspar Delhey
Hi, thanks Rafael and Emmanuel for further input into this problem. I have followed Rafael's advice and tried to use MCMCglmm with the help of Shinichi Nakagawa. This seems to provide again sensible results, however I would also be interested in following the procedure suggested by Emmanuel,

Re: [R-sig-phylo] multiple traits measured within species

2012-03-11 Thread Kaspar Delhey
Hi Marguerite and Matt, thanks for your comments I should perhaps explain better the analysis I am trying to do which I tried to avoid first because it is lengthy and complicated (you have been warned continue reading at your own peril): The idea is to test for co-evolution between plumage

Re: [R-sig-phylo] multiple traits measured within species

2012-03-11 Thread Rafael Maia
Hello Kaspar, I am new to phylogenetic comparative methods, so I may not be of much help, but I am dealing with similar questions that you are, so hopefully I can at least help the discussion in a useful way! First, I tried to sort out your main questions, which seem to be: - Are U- and

Re: [R-sig-phylo] multiple traits measured within species

2012-03-10 Thread Marguerite Butler
Dear Kaspar, Are your traits the same? Basically, are the seven color patches on the same individual all one trait, or are they seven traits? Do all species have the seven color patches? Or are the number of color patches variable? (this could also be a character). I think before you attempt

Re: [R-sig-phylo] multiple traits measured within species

2012-03-09 Thread Matt Pennell
Hi Kaspar and others, Sorry for responding so late to this. I am not sure if there exists any precedent for doing this but it seems problematic. We do not expect BM alone (or a variant thereof) to be a good model to account for variation within a species and I would strongly recommend against