Re: [racket-users] Smart contracts in Racket

[Adam Golding]

this exists now  Introducing Blockchain with Lisp: Implement and Extend 
Blockchains with the Racket Language | SpringerLink 


On Tuesday 20 April 2021 at 14:29:58 UTC-4 Adam Golding wrote:

> Thanks Stephen, perhaps you can help get the ball rolling again--I had 
> written to suggest that racketers may want to enter the moralis hackathon 
> as there are some points of convergence:
>
> - racket seeks to bridge multiple languages, moralis seeks to bridge 
> multiple blockchains with different smart contract languages
> - racket has a powerful contract system which will ultimately need to 
> interoperate with smart contracts 
> - racket is aimed at web applications as one use case and moralis is first 
> (I think) in what will be many CMS-type platforms for the new web3 
> paradigm--if racket does not have a web3 solution it will be left behind 
> and it is already not widely used for web servers--this is an 
> opportunity for the Racket community to front-run the web development 
> industry, get it?
>
> I am not an experienced racketer but I would be happy to help out.  I also 
> got Mr. Ivan to create an #off-topic in the moralis discord for 
> brainstorming that is not strictly development, by analogy to how freenode 
> has both #math and #not-math.  I also suggest the racket discord create a 
> channel specifically for decentralized systems of all kinds--torrents, 
> web3, crypto, voting systems, markets, etc.
>
> Cheers,
> Adam
>
>
>
> On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 at 10:47, Stephen De Gabrielle  
> wrote:
>
>> Dear all,  
>>
>> I write to apologise for my behaviour. 
>>
>> I inappropriately deleted a post and subsequent discussion from the 
>> Racket Discord. 
>>
>> I believe this community is for all kinds of developers making all kinds 
>> of programs with Racket, and I want everyone to feel welcome to participate 
>> in ways that suit them. 
>>
>> Kind regards
>>
>> Stephen
>>
>> On Tuesday, April 20, 2021 at 1:58:55 AM UTC+1 --- wrote:
>>
>>> I was just told this topic is off-topic on the racket discord--clearly 
>>> an injustice:
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
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>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>

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Re: [racket-users] How 'Pythonic' Can Racket Be Made?

[Matthias Felleisen]

We tried embedding Python into Racket nee PLT Scheme some 20 years ago, twice: 

Here is a paper on the second attempt: 

  From Python to PLT Scheme 
  https://www2.ccs.neu.edu/racket/pubs/#scheme2003-ms

Daniel Silva took the lead on this initiative. The surface language was (back 
then) covered. 
It’s Python runtime system that made it essentially impossible to interop with 
the (even 
then) many C libs. 

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Re: [racket-users] How 'Pythonic' Can Racket Be Made?

[Jens Axel Søgaard]

Den man. 9. okt. 2023 kl. 19.35 skrev Adam Golding :

> I am going to write a language called 'micronatrix' that is pythonic in
> its use of whitespace and even with python 2 type print statements but very
> minimal and pared down -- has similar ground been trodden?
>

There a #lang python implementation here:

https://github.com/pedropramos/PyonR/tree/master

A paper on it:

https://www.inesc-id.pt/ficheiros/publicacoes/10173.pdf

/Jens Axel

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Re: [racket-users] How 'Pythonic' Can Racket Be Made?

[Adam Golding]

Thank god I don't have to use discord ;-)

On Tue, 10 Oct 2023 at 12:30, Adam Golding  wrote:

> OH
>
> On Tue, 10 Oct 2023 at 12:28, D. Ben Knoble  wrote:
>
>> Nor on Discourse: I use the mailing list mode.
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 10, 2023 at 12:14 PM Adam Golding 
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > ah well the practice of email lists does not depend on google... we
>> should presumbly be using matrix chat instead
>> >
>> > On Tue, 10 Oct 2023 at 12:12, Daniel Patterson  wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Unlike, e.g., Google?
>> >>
>> >> On Oct 10, 2023, at 12:11 PM, Adam Golding 
>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Yikes, how do we protest introducing a dependency on some corporation?
>> >>
>> >> On Tue, 10 Oct 2023 at 12:09, D. Ben Knoble 
>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> You'll probably get more replies on Discourse. A short answer is to
>> mention Rhombus and to recommend looking at all the #langs on the package
>> server and in the docs.
>> >>>
>> >>> On Monday, October 9, 2023 at 1:35:11 PM UTC-4 Adam Golding wrote:
>> 
>>  I am going to write a language called 'micronatrix' that is pythonic
>> in its use of whitespace and even with python 2 type print statements but
>> very minimal and pared down -- has similar ground been trodden?
>>  --
>>  adamgolding.ca
>> 
>>  ps I have registered micronatrix.com
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> --
>> >>> This group is deprecated and retained as an archive.
>> >>>
>> >>> Racket discussions have moved to the Racket Discourse at
>> https://racket.discourse.group/ .
>> >>>
>> >>> ---
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>> .
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> This group is deprecated and retained as an archive.
>> >>
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>> https://racket.discourse.group/ .
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>> .
>> >>
>> >>
>>
>>
>> --
>> D. Ben Knoble
>>
>

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Re: [racket-users] How 'Pythonic' Can Racket Be Made?

[Adam Golding]

OH

On Tue, 10 Oct 2023 at 12:28, D. Ben Knoble  wrote:

> Nor on Discourse: I use the mailing list mode.
>
> On Tue, Oct 10, 2023 at 12:14 PM Adam Golding 
> wrote:
> >
> > ah well the practice of email lists does not depend on google... we
> should presumbly be using matrix chat instead
> >
> > On Tue, 10 Oct 2023 at 12:12, Daniel Patterson  wrote:
> >>
> >> Unlike, e.g., Google?
> >>
> >> On Oct 10, 2023, at 12:11 PM, Adam Golding 
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Yikes, how do we protest introducing a dependency on some corporation?
> >>
> >> On Tue, 10 Oct 2023 at 12:09, D. Ben Knoble 
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> You'll probably get more replies on Discourse. A short answer is to
> mention Rhombus and to recommend looking at all the #langs on the package
> server and in the docs.
> >>>
> >>> On Monday, October 9, 2023 at 1:35:11 PM UTC-4 Adam Golding wrote:
> 
>  I am going to write a language called 'micronatrix' that is pythonic
> in its use of whitespace and even with python 2 type print statements but
> very minimal and pared down -- has similar ground been trodden?
>  --
>  adamgolding.ca
> 
>  ps I have registered micronatrix.com
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> This group is deprecated and retained as an archive.
> >>>
> >>> Racket discussions have moved to the Racket Discourse at
> https://racket.discourse.group/ .
> >>>
> >>> ---
> >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "Racket Users" group.
> >>>
> >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
> an email to racket-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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> >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "Racket Users" group.
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> an email to racket-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/ba2e2e23-c21b-43d0-9649-86a7fefa8d2bn%40googlegroups.com
> .
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> This group is deprecated and retained as an archive.
> >>
> >> Racket discussions have moved to the Racket Discourse at
> https://racket.discourse.group/ .
> >>
> >> ---
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> .
> >>
> >>
>
>
> --
> D. Ben Knoble
>

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Re: [racket-users] How 'Pythonic' Can Racket Be Made?

[D. Ben Knoble]

Nor on Discourse: I use the mailing list mode.

On Tue, Oct 10, 2023 at 12:14 PM Adam Golding  wrote:
>
> ah well the practice of email lists does not depend on google... we should 
> presumbly be using matrix chat instead
>
> On Tue, 10 Oct 2023 at 12:12, Daniel Patterson  wrote:
>>
>> Unlike, e.g., Google?
>>
>> On Oct 10, 2023, at 12:11 PM, Adam Golding  wrote:
>>
>> Yikes, how do we protest introducing a dependency on some corporation?
>>
>> On Tue, 10 Oct 2023 at 12:09, D. Ben Knoble  wrote:
>>>
>>> You'll probably get more replies on Discourse. A short answer is to mention 
>>> Rhombus and to recommend looking at all the #langs on the package server 
>>> and in the docs.
>>>
>>> On Monday, October 9, 2023 at 1:35:11 PM UTC-4 Adam Golding wrote:

 I am going to write a language called 'micronatrix' that is pythonic in 
 its use of whitespace and even with python 2 type print statements but 
 very minimal and pared down -- has similar ground been trodden?
 --
 adamgolding.ca

 ps I have registered micronatrix.com
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> This group is deprecated and retained as an archive.
>>>
>>> Racket discussions have moved to the Racket Discourse at 
>>> https://racket.discourse.group/ .
>>>
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>>
>>
>> --
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>>
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>>
>>


-- 
D. Ben Knoble

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Re: [racket-users] How 'Pythonic' Can Racket Be Made?

[J. Ryan Stinnett]

In case there's confusion, we're talking about _Discourse_ here (the
open-source forum hosted at https://racket.discourse.group/), and not
_Discord_ (though there's also a Racket channel there).

- Ryan

On Tue, 10 Oct 2023 at 17:16, Adam Golding  wrote:
>
> that being said, it's about minimizing the number of corporations one depends 
> on, not reducing it to zero which is impossible
>
> On Tue, 10 Oct 2023 at 12:14, Adam Golding  wrote:
>>
>> ah well the practice of email lists does not depend on google... we should 
>> presumbly be using matrix chat instead
>>
>> On Tue, 10 Oct 2023 at 12:12, Daniel Patterson  wrote:
>>>
>>> Unlike, e.g., Google?
>>>
>>> On Oct 10, 2023, at 12:11 PM, Adam Golding  wrote:
>>>
>>> Yikes, how do we protest introducing a dependency on some corporation?
>>>
>>> On Tue, 10 Oct 2023 at 12:09, D. Ben Knoble  wrote:

 You'll probably get more replies on Discourse. A short answer is to 
 mention Rhombus and to recommend looking at all the #langs on the package 
 server and in the docs.

 On Monday, October 9, 2023 at 1:35:11 PM UTC-4 Adam Golding wrote:
>
> I am going to write a language called 'micronatrix' that is pythonic in 
> its use of whitespace and even with python 2 type print statements but 
> very minimal and pared down -- has similar ground been trodden?
> --
> adamgolding.ca
>
> ps I have registered micronatrix.com


 --
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>>>
>>>
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Re: [racket-users] How 'Pythonic' Can Racket Be Made?

[Adam Golding]

that being said, it's about minimizing the number of corporations one
depends on, not reducing it to zero which is impossible

On Tue, 10 Oct 2023 at 12:14, Adam Golding  wrote:

> ah well the practice of email lists does not depend on google... we should
> presumbly be using matrix chat instead
>
> On Tue, 10 Oct 2023 at 12:12, Daniel Patterson  wrote:
>
>> Unlike, e.g., Google?
>>
>> On Oct 10, 2023, at 12:11 PM, Adam Golding  wrote:
>>
>> Yikes, how do we protest introducing a dependency on some corporation?
>>
>> On Tue, 10 Oct 2023 at 12:09, D. Ben Knoble  wrote:
>>
>>> You'll probably get more replies on Discourse. A short answer is to
>>> mention Rhombus and to recommend looking at all the #langs on the package
>>> server and in the docs.
>>>
>>> On Monday, October 9, 2023 at 1:35:11 PM UTC-4 Adam Golding wrote:
>>>
 I am going to write a language called 'micronatrix' that is pythonic in
 its use of whitespace and even with python 2 type print statements but very
 minimal and pared down -- has similar ground been trodden?
 --
 adamgolding.ca

 ps I have registered micronatrix.com

>>>
>>> --
>>> This group is deprecated and retained as an archive.
>>>
>>> Racket discussions have moved to the Racket Discourse at
>>> https://racket.discourse.group/ .
>>>
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>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>>
>> --
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>>
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>> 
>> .
>>
>>
>>

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Re: [racket-users] How 'Pythonic' Can Racket Be Made?

[Adam Golding]

ah well the practice of email lists does not depend on google... we should
presumbly be using matrix chat instead

On Tue, 10 Oct 2023 at 12:12, Daniel Patterson  wrote:

> Unlike, e.g., Google?
>
> On Oct 10, 2023, at 12:11 PM, Adam Golding  wrote:
>
> Yikes, how do we protest introducing a dependency on some corporation?
>
> On Tue, 10 Oct 2023 at 12:09, D. Ben Knoble  wrote:
>
>> You'll probably get more replies on Discourse. A short answer is to
>> mention Rhombus and to recommend looking at all the #langs on the package
>> server and in the docs.
>>
>> On Monday, October 9, 2023 at 1:35:11 PM UTC-4 Adam Golding wrote:
>>
>>> I am going to write a language called 'micronatrix' that is pythonic in
>>> its use of whitespace and even with python 2 type print statements but very
>>> minimal and pared down -- has similar ground been trodden?
>>> --
>>> adamgolding.ca
>>>
>>> ps I have registered micronatrix.com
>>>
>>
>> --
>> This group is deprecated and retained as an archive.
>>
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>> https://racket.discourse.group/ .
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Re: [racket-users] How 'Pythonic' Can Racket Be Made?

[Daniel Patterson]

Unlike, e.g., Google? 

> On Oct 10, 2023, at 12:11 PM, Adam Golding  wrote:
> 
> Yikes, how do we protest introducing a dependency on some corporation?
> 
> On Tue, 10 Oct 2023 at 12:09, D. Ben Knoble  > wrote:
>> You'll probably get more replies on Discourse. A short answer is to mention 
>> Rhombus and to recommend looking at all the #langs on the package server and 
>> in the docs.
>> 
>> On Monday, October 9, 2023 at 1:35:11 PM UTC-4 Adam Golding wrote:
>>> I am going to write a language called 'micronatrix' that is pythonic in its 
>>> use of whitespace and even with python 2 type print statements but very 
>>> minimal and pared down -- has similar ground been trodden?
>>> --
>>> adamgolding.ca 
>>> 
>>> ps I have registered micronatrix.com 
>> 
>> -- 
>> This group is deprecated and retained as an archive. 
>>  
>> Racket discussions have moved to the Racket Discourse at 
>> https://racket.discourse.group/ .
>>  
>> ---
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>>  
>> .
> 
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Re: [racket-users] Re: How 'Pythonic' Can Racket Be Made?

[Adam Golding]

Yikes, how do we protest introducing a dependency on some corporation?

On Tue, 10 Oct 2023 at 12:09, D. Ben Knoble  wrote:

> You'll probably get more replies on Discourse. A short answer is to
> mention Rhombus and to recommend looking at all the #langs on the package
> server and in the docs.
>
> On Monday, October 9, 2023 at 1:35:11 PM UTC-4 Adam Golding wrote:
>
>> I am going to write a language called 'micronatrix' that is pythonic in
>> its use of whitespace and even with python 2 type print statements but very
>> minimal and pared down -- has similar ground been trodden?
>> --
>> adamgolding.ca
>>
>> ps I have registered micronatrix.com
>>
> --
> This group is deprecated and retained as an archive.
>
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Re: [racket-users] The Racket programming language mailing list has moved!!

[Sam Tobin-Hochstadt]

We're using the free-for-open-source plan from Discourse:
https://free.discourse.group/

Sam

On Fri, Jul 21, 2023 at 1:13 PM Ryan Johnson  wrote:

> Thanks
>
> How did you guys get a discourse.group subdomain? I visited
> discourse.group and the domain is unreachable.
>
> What software is it running?
> On 7/21/2023 11:49 AM, Racket Users wrote:
>
> The Racket programming language mailing list is deprecated and gets very
> little traffic.
>
> Forum/mailing list discussion has moved to https://racket.discourse.group/
> - this is a web forum that supports use via email like a mailing list.
>
> Please use this invitation:
> https://racket.discourse.group/invites/VxkBcXY7yL
> The welcome post includes a link mailing list access guidance for those
> who prefer it.
>
> Best regards
>
> Stephen
>
> --
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Re: [racket-users] The Racket programming language mailing list has moved!!

[Ryan Johnson]

Thanks

How did you guys get a discourse.group subdomain? I visited 
discourse.group and the domain is unreachable.


What software is it running?

On 7/21/2023 11:49 AM, Racket Users wrote:
The Racket programming language mailing list is deprecated and gets 
very little traffic.


Forum/mailing list discussion has moved to 
https://racket.discourse.group/ - this is a web forum that supports 
use via email like a mailing list.


Please use this invitation: 
https://racket.discourse.group/invites/VxkBcXY7yL
The welcome post includes a link mailing list access guidance for 
those who prefer it.


Best regards

Stephen

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Re: [racket-users] Macro generating macro question

[Kevin Forchione]

> On May 24, 2023, at 2:11 AM, Jens Axel Søgaard  wrote:
> 
> #lang racket
> (require (for-syntax syntax/parse
>  racket/syntax))
> 
> (define-syntax (make-id-macro stx)
>   (syntax-parse stx
> [(_ id)
>  (with-syntax ([name (format-id #'id "do-~a" #'id)]
>[ooo  #'(... ...)])
>#'(define-syntax (name stx)
>(syntax-parse stx
>  [(_ parms ooo)
>   #'(list parms ooo)])))]))
> 
> (make-id-macro foo)
> (do-foo 1 2)

Thanks! That was the fundamental concept I was missing. I don’t recall seeing 
that in the documentation, but now that I know I’ll search for that and see if 
I glossed over it somehow. 

-Kevin

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Re: [racket-users] Macro generating macro question

[Jens Axel Søgaard]

Hi Kevin,

When you are writing macro generating macros there are two levels of
ellipsis.
The outer one, which you can write as ... as normal and the inner one which
you need to escape.
You can escape it with (... ...). That looks odd to me, so I usually bind
it to an identifier named ooo.

#lang racket
(require (for-syntax syntax/parse
 racket/syntax))

(define-syntax (make-id-macro stx)
  (syntax-parse stx
[(_ id)
 (with-syntax ([name (format-id #'id "do-~a" #'id)]
   [ooo  #'(... ...)])
   #'(define-syntax (name stx)
   (syntax-parse stx
 [(_ parms ooo)
  #'(list parms ooo)])))]))

(make-id-macro foo)
(do-foo 1 2)


See you on Racket Discourse.
/Jens Axel


Den ons. 24. maj 2023 kl. 06.27 skrev Kevin Forchione :

> Hi guys,
> I’m stumped.  In a nutshell I want to write a macro that is passed  an id
> and will produce a macro called id that can take variable arguments. I’m
> sure I’m overlooking something fundamental. The basic form below “works” if
> I don’t have ellipsis aver the variables, but that’s not what I’m after.
> Here’s an example that is obviously wrong, but is along the lines of what
> I’m looking for:
>
> #lang racket
>
>
> (require (for-syntax syntax/parse
>  racket/syntax))
>
> (define-syntax (make-id-macro stx)
>   (syntax-parse stx
> [(_ id)
>  (with-syntax ([name (format-id #'id "do-~a" #'id)])
>#'(define-syntax (name stx)
>(syntax-parse stx
>  [(_ parms ...)
>   #'( list parms ...)])))]))
>
> Any help in this and explaining why it fails would be greatly appreciated.
>
> -Kevin
>
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Re: [racket-users] Macro generating macro question

[Stephen De Gabrielle]

Hi Kevin

The most active places for ‘Racketeers’ is the Racket [Discourse](
https://racket.discourse.group/) and [Discord](https://discord.gg/6Zq8sH5)


Please join us!


See also https://github.com/racket/racket/wiki/Macros - in particular i
think you may find what you are looking for in
https://docs.racket-lang.org/syntax-parse-example/index.html


(many who prefer email just use discourse in ‘mailing list mode’)


Best regards

Stephen

On Wed, 24 May 2023 at 05:27, Kevin Forchione  wrote:

> Hi guys,
> I’m stumped.  In a nutshell I want to write a macro that is passed  an id
> and will produce a macro called id that can take variable arguments. I’m
> sure I’m overlooking something fundamental. The basic form below “works” if
> I don’t have ellipsis aver the variables, but that’s not what I’m after.
> Here’s an example that is obviously wrong, but is along the lines of what
> I’m looking for:
>
> #lang racket
>
>
> (require (for-syntax syntax/parse
>  racket/syntax))
>
> (define-syntax (make-id-macro stx)
>   (syntax-parse stx
> [(_ id)
>  (with-syntax ([name (format-id #'id "do-~a" #'id)])
>#'(define-syntax (name stx)
>(syntax-parse stx
>  [(_ parms ...)
>   #'( list parms ...)])))]))
>
> Any help in this and explaining why it fails would be greatly appreciated.
>
> -Kevin
>
> --
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Re: [racket-users] Scheme 2023 @ ICFP

[Stephen De Gabrielle]

Hi Marco,

The Racket community has mostly moved to [Discourse](
https://racket.discourse.group/) and [Discord](https://discord.gg/6Zq8sH5)

we would welcome you posting your call

If you do post please use the #general category/channel on
discourse/discord respectively.  (#announcements is used for
community announcements)

When you post on Racket Discourse, you can use the tags 'event' and 'call'

[image: image.png]
https://racket.discourse.group/c/general/12

best regards,
Stephen

On Sat, May 13, 2023 at 4:55 PM mora...@gmail.com 
wrote:

> Dear All,
>
> I am chairing Scheme 2023 (as part of the ICFP events in Seattle this
> September). Kindly consider submitting an article to present.
>
> Please find the CFP here:
> https://icfp23.sigplan.org/home/scheme-2023#Call-for-Papers
>
> If you have any questions, please let me know.
>
> I hope to see you in Seattle!
>
> Marco
>
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Re: [racket-users] trying to install Rhombus

[Dan Synek]

It worked with the latest version. Thanks so much,  Alex!

On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 5:52:14 PM UTC+2 alex...@knauth.org wrote:

>
> On Jan 31, 2023, at 10:27 AM, Dan Synek  wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I used Racket a couple of years ago, but is now quiet rusty. So please 
> forgive m if my question is obvious. I wanted to experiment with a language 
> with algebraic style(infix etc), but with powerful macros, so I thought it 
> could be interesting to check out Rhombus.
> Below  are my attempts at installing Rhombus in version 8.7 and 8,6 of 
> Racket without any success.
> I installed the latest racket (8.7) and tried:
> raco pkg install --auto rhombus-prototype
>
> It looked hopeful, but after a while I got a lot of errors like this:
> 
> --- summary of errors ---  [17:12:53]
> raco setup: error: during making for /rhombus-prototype/scribble
> raco setup:   phase+space+: contract violation
> raco setup: expected: phase+space?
> raco setup: given: '(0 . #f)
> raco setup: compiling: 
> /rhombus-prototype/rhombus/private/ellipsis.rkt
> raco setup: error: during making for /rhombus-prototype/rhombus
> raco setup:   phase+space+: contract violation
> raco setup: expected: phase+space?
> raco setup: given: '(0 . #f)
>
>
> Parts of the Rhombus prototype like this can depend on *very* recent 
> Racket snapshot / nightly versions.
>
> The `phase+space+` behavior it's relying on here was last updated in the 
> snapshot version 8.2.0.3.
>
> You can get a snapshot build from one of the options at 
> https://snapshot.racket-lang.org/. The current most up-to-date snapshot 
> available from the University of Utah is version 8.8.0.5.
>
> Alex Knauth
> he/him or they/them
>
>

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Re: [racket-users] trying to install Rhombus

[Alex Knauth]

> On Jan 31, 2023, at 10:27 AM, Dan Synek  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I used Racket a couple of years ago, but is now quiet rusty. So please 
> forgive m if my question is obvious. I wanted to experiment with a language 
> with algebraic style(infix etc), but with powerful macros, so I thought it 
> could be interesting to check out Rhombus.
> Below  are my attempts at installing Rhombus in version 8.7 and 8,6 of Racket 
> without any success.
> I installed the latest racket (8.7) and tried:
> raco pkg install --auto rhombus-prototype
> 
> It looked hopeful, but after a while I got a lot of errors like this:
> 
> --- summary of errors ---  [17:12:53]
> raco setup: error: during making for /rhombus-prototype/scribble
> raco setup:   phase+space+: contract violation
> raco setup: expected: phase+space?
> raco setup: given: '(0 . #f)
> raco setup: compiling: 
> /rhombus-prototype/rhombus/private/ellipsis.rkt
> raco setup: error: during making for /rhombus-prototype/rhombus
> raco setup:   phase+space+: contract violation
> raco setup: expected: phase+space?
> raco setup: given: '(0 . #f)

Parts of the Rhombus prototype like this can depend on *very* recent Racket 
snapshot / nightly versions.

The `phase+space+` behavior it's relying on here was last updated in the 
snapshot version 8.2.0.3.

You can get a snapshot build from one of the options at 
https://snapshot.racket-lang.org/. The current most up-to-date snapshot 
available from the University of Utah is version 8.8.0.5.

Alex Knauth
he/him or they/them

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Re: [racket-users] Some DrRacket preferences unreadable

[Robby Findler]

I am sorry to hear that. But it may be something specific to that
particular font. My favorite fixed width font is Inconsolata but there are
a lot of good options out there. Might be worth trying some others?

Robby

On Fri, Dec 30, 2022 at 5:45 AM AvW  wrote:

> Indeed I did change the system font a while ago.
> The reason for that was that I very much like to have a non-proportional
> font (especially in the explorer).
>
> And yes, reverting it to the default font is the solution!
>
> But maybe is would be possible to change this behaviour of DrRacket.
> Since in most tabs of the Preferences Window it does work out-of-the-box,
> I cannot understand why in those cases it works differently ...
>
> Anyway, many thanks.
> Now I must cope with that ugly proportional font :-)
>
> Op donderdag 29 december 2022 om 15:26:02 UTC+1 schreef Robby Findler:
>
>> For those shown portions of the UI, I believe DrRacket is trying to use
>> the system font. It looks like that font is reporting size information in a
>> way that confuses something, somehow (I am not sure how).
>>
>> Has the system font been changed? Can you reset it back to a default to
>> see if that improves the situation?
>>
>> Robby
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 29, 2022 at 7:48 AM Jens Axel Søgaard 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> This looks odd indeed.
>>>
>>> Does it help to:
>>>   1. Change the font DrRacket uses
>>>   2. Restart DrRacket
>>>
>>>
>>> Den tor. 29. dec. 2022 kl. 13.54 skrev AvW :
>>>
 Hi,

 after having installed Racket 8.7 (Windows 64 bit) I cannot read 3 tabs
 of the preferences window; the other tabs appear to be OK.

 See attachments.

 Some relevant data:
 - Windows 11 Pro 22H2 build 22621.963
 - Racket installation: racket-8.7-x86_64-win32-cs.exe

 Any ideas?

 TIA,
Arie

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 .

>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> --
>>> Jens Axel Søgaard
>>>
>>> --
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>>> .
>>>
>>> Beyond the Racket Users Google Group, Racket Discussions take place on
>>> Discourse ( https://racket.discourse.group/ ) and Discord (
>>> https://discord.gg/6Zq8sH5 ). Discussion (but less active) also takes
>>> place on the Racket Slack https://racket.slack.com/ ( sign up at
>>> https://racket-slack.herokuapp.com/ ), and IRC #racket
>>> https://kiwiirc.com/nextclient/irc.libera.chat/#racket
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>>>
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>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>> --
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Re: [racket-users] Some DrRacket preferences unreadable

[AvW]

Indeed I did change the system font a while ago.
The reason for that was that I very much like to have a non-proportional 
font (especially in the explorer).

And yes, reverting it to the default font is the solution!

But maybe is would be possible to change this behaviour of DrRacket.
Since in most tabs of the Preferences Window it does work out-of-the-box, I 
cannot understand why in those cases it works differently ...

Anyway, many thanks.
Now I must cope with that ugly proportional font :-)

Op donderdag 29 december 2022 om 15:26:02 UTC+1 schreef Robby Findler:

> For those shown portions of the UI, I believe DrRacket is trying to use 
> the system font. It looks like that font is reporting size information in a 
> way that confuses something, somehow (I am not sure how). 
>
> Has the system font been changed? Can you reset it back to a default to 
> see if that improves the situation?
>
> Robby
>
> On Thu, Dec 29, 2022 at 7:48 AM Jens Axel Søgaard  
> wrote:
>
>> This looks odd indeed.
>>
>> Does it help to:
>>   1. Change the font DrRacket uses
>>   2. Restart DrRacket
>>
>>
>> Den tor. 29. dec. 2022 kl. 13.54 skrev AvW :
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> after having installed Racket 8.7 (Windows 64 bit) I cannot read 3 tabs 
>>> of the preferences window; the other tabs appear to be OK.
>>>
>>> See attachments.
>>>
>>> Some relevant data:
>>> - Windows 11 Pro 22H2 build 22621.963
>>> - Racket installation: racket-8.7-x86_64-win32-cs.exe
>>>
>>> Any ideas?
>>>
>>> TIA,
>>>Arie
>>>
>>> -- 
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>>> Groups "Racket Users" group.
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>>> an email to racket-users...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/beaa2ef6-afd2-4686-829a-390eb69f5620n%40googlegroups.com
>>> .
>>>  
>>> Beyond the Racket Users Google Group, Racket Discussions take place on 
>>> Discourse ( https://racket.discourse.group/ ) and Discord ( 
>>> https://discord.gg/6Zq8sH5 ). Discussion (but less active) also takes 
>>> place on the Racket Slack https://racket.slack.com/ ( sign up at 
>>> https://racket-slack.herokuapp.com/ ), and IRC #racket 
>>> https://kiwiirc.com/nextclient/irc.libera.chat/#racket
>>> --- 
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>>>  
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> -- 
>> Jens Axel Søgaard
>>
>> -- 
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>> "Racket Users" group.
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>> .
>>  
>> Beyond the Racket Users Google Group, Racket Discussions take place on 
>> Discourse ( https://racket.discourse.group/ ) and Discord ( 
>> https://discord.gg/6Zq8sH5 ). Discussion (but less active) also takes 
>> place on the Racket Slack https://racket.slack.com/ ( sign up at 
>> https://racket-slack.herokuapp.com/ ), and IRC #racket 
>> https://kiwiirc.com/nextclient/irc.libera.chat/#racket
>> --- 
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>>
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>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>

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Re: [racket-users] Some DrRacket preferences unreadable

[Robby Findler]

For those shown portions of the UI, I believe DrRacket is trying to use the
system font. It looks like that font is reporting size information in a way
that confuses something, somehow (I am not sure how).

Has the system font been changed? Can you reset it back to a default to see
if that improves the situation?

Robby

On Thu, Dec 29, 2022 at 7:48 AM Jens Axel Søgaard 
wrote:

> This looks odd indeed.
>
> Does it help to:
>   1. Change the font DrRacket uses
>   2. Restart DrRacket
>
>
> Den tor. 29. dec. 2022 kl. 13.54 skrev AvW :
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> after having installed Racket 8.7 (Windows 64 bit) I cannot read 3 tabs
>> of the preferences window; the other tabs appear to be OK.
>>
>> See attachments.
>>
>> Some relevant data:
>> - Windows 11 Pro 22H2 build 22621.963
>> - Racket installation: racket-8.7-x86_64-win32-cs.exe
>>
>> Any ideas?
>>
>> TIA,
>>Arie
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "Racket Users" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to racket-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/beaa2ef6-afd2-4686-829a-390eb69f5620n%40googlegroups.com
>> .
>>
>> Beyond the Racket Users Google Group, Racket Discussions take place on
>> Discourse ( https://racket.discourse.group/ ) and Discord (
>> https://discord.gg/6Zq8sH5 ). Discussion (but less active) also takes
>> place on the Racket Slack https://racket.slack.com/ ( sign up at
>> https://racket-slack.herokuapp.com/ ), and IRC #racket
>> https://kiwiirc.com/nextclient/irc.libera.chat/#racket
>> ---
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>> 
>> .
>>
>
>
> --
> --
> Jens Axel Søgaard
>
> --
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> 
> .
>

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Re: [racket-users] Some DrRacket preferences unreadable

[Jens Axel Søgaard]

This looks odd indeed.

Does it help to:
  1. Change the font DrRacket uses
  2. Restart DrRacket


Den tor. 29. dec. 2022 kl. 13.54 skrev AvW :

> Hi,
>
> after having installed Racket 8.7 (Windows 64 bit) I cannot read 3 tabs of
> the preferences window; the other tabs appear to be OK.
>
> See attachments.
>
> Some relevant data:
> - Windows 11 Pro 22H2 build 22621.963
> - Racket installation: racket-8.7-x86_64-win32-cs.exe
>
> Any ideas?
>
> TIA,
>Arie
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Racket Users" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to racket-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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> .
>
> Beyond the Racket Users Google Group, Racket Discussions take place on
> Discourse ( https://racket.discourse.group/ ) and Discord (
> https://discord.gg/6Zq8sH5 ). Discussion (but less active) also takes
> place on the Racket Slack https://racket.slack.com/ ( sign up at
> https://racket-slack.herokuapp.com/ ), and IRC #racket
> https://kiwiirc.com/nextclient/irc.libera.chat/#racket
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> 
> .
>


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Re: [racket-users] racket -m from commandline

[Wolfgang Hukriede]

Great, thanks David, that did the trick.
And someone might want to fix the "racket --help" output, if you ask me.
Happy holidays!


On 12/17/22, David Van Horn  wrote:
> You likely want to also use the -t option so that the module is required.
> Here's an example:
>
> % cat try.rkt
>
> #lang racket
>
> (provide main)
>
> (define (main . args)
>
>   (displayln (cons "HELLO:" args)))
>
> % racket -tm try.rkt there
>
> (HELLO: there)
>
>
>
> On Sat, Dec 17, 2022 at 11:50 AM whuk...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> racket --help says:
>>
>>   -m, --main
>>  Call `main` with command-line arguments, print results
>>
>> but I cannot get this to work. All I get is
>>
>> main: not defined or required into the top-level environment
>>
>> in all (to me) conceivable variants. Could anyone provide an actually
>> working example?
>> Please don't recommend books or so, I have a life.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> --
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>> "Racket Users" group.
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>> email to racket-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/beaa2ef6-afd2-4686-829a-390eb69f5620n%40googlegroups.com
>> .
>>
>> Beyond the Racket Users Google Group, Racket Discussions take place on
>> Discourse ( https://racket.discourse.group/ ) and Discord (
>> https://discord.gg/6Zq8sH5 ). Discussion (but less active) also takes
>> place on the Racket Slack https://racket.slack.com/ ( sign up at
>> https://racket-slack.herokuapp.com/ ), and IRC #racket
>> https://kiwiirc.com/nextclient/irc.libera.chat/#racket
>> ---
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>> 
>> .
>>
>

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Re: [racket-users] racket -m from commandline

[David Van Horn]

You likely want to also use the -t option so that the module is required.
Here's an example:

% cat try.rkt

#lang racket

(provide main)

(define (main . args)

  (displayln (cons "HELLO:" args)))

% racket -tm try.rkt there

(HELLO: there)



On Sat, Dec 17, 2022 at 11:50 AM whuk...@gmail.com 
wrote:

> racket --help says:
>
>   -m, --main
>  Call `main` with command-line arguments, print results
>
> but I cannot get this to work. All I get is
>
> main: not defined or required into the top-level environment
>
> in all (to me) conceivable variants. Could anyone provide an actually
> working example?
> Please don't recommend books or so, I have a life.
>
> Thanks.
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Racket Users" group.
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> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/beaa2ef6-afd2-4686-829a-390eb69f5620n%40googlegroups.com
> .
>
> Beyond the Racket Users Google Group, Racket Discussions take place on
> Discourse ( https://racket.discourse.group/ ) and Discord (
> https://discord.gg/6Zq8sH5 ). Discussion (but less active) also takes
> place on the Racket Slack https://racket.slack.com/ ( sign up at
> https://racket-slack.herokuapp.com/ ), and IRC #racket
> https://kiwiirc.com/nextclient/irc.libera.chat/#racket
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> 
> .
>

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Re: [racket-users] Writing a "command-line front-end" for a language

['Reuben Thomas' via Racket Users]

On Mon, 5 Sept 2022 at 02:20, Shu-Hung You 
wrote:

>
> Okay, if you want to bypass the #lang protocol entirely, here is the
> needed code. As you have expected, it uses eval and then calls
> dynamic-require.
>

Thanks very much for this code and detailed explanation, that was a great
help.

-- 
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Re: [racket-users] Math-quiz program

[Hrvoje Blazevic]

Thanks for the advice. I did not know about these tools, but apart from the 
fact that I really should know how to use them, I did just fine with 
DrRacket IDE where I just click on Racket->Crete Executable->Distribution 
(to install on other machines), and GRacket, and all is done for me.
My original question was not how to create stand alone executable, but 
where can I post my executable for others to use.


On Wednesday, September 7, 2022 at 3:40:49 AM UTC+8 johnbclements wrote:

> There are two raco tools that might be of use to you: here’s a link to the 
> documentation for both of them:
>
> https://docs.racket-lang.org/guide/exe.html
>
> Also, I personally recommend using the discourse forum rather than this 
> mailing list. Following the transition to discourse last year, the users 
> mailing list is much less frequently used.
>
> https://racket.discourse.group/
>
> John Clements
>
>
> On Sep 5, 2022, at 07:25, Hrvoje Blazevic  wrote:
>
> I've been working last several months on a GUI math training/understanding 
> program for my 6 year old daughter who just started grade 1 (in Philippines 
> - they start beginning of June). 
> Originally I started with addition and subtraction, but as every new topic 
> (math related) was introduced in school (like basic idea of fractions, 
> clock and many others) and as I saw problems in understanding, I would add 
> a new exercise to the program. It contains 12 exercises in all now, and is 
> pretty much complete (I run out of ideas) :-) .
>
> My problem/question is following. 
> As I've seen with my daughter, the program is very successful in teaching 
> (at least it is with my daughter), and she actually enjoys using it (which 
> was not the case when I originally started with papers of printed 
> problems). Therefore I would like to post this program on the internet for 
> other parents to use, but I can't find where Racket compiled/standalone 
> programs are posted.
>
> I have of-course found Racket packages repository, but (I admit I know 
> nothing of Racket packages) it does not seem to be what I need. As far as I 
> see it, packages are for people who use racket, have racket installed on 
> their computers, and know how to handle packages. 
> This is definitely not the folks I have in mind for my program.
>
> So is there such a repository where I can post tarball containing compiled 
> program, and source code.
>
> Hrvoje Blazevic
>
>
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "Racket Users" group.
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> email to racket-users...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/41d08993-f323-4044-8c7c-239b58dcca8en%40googlegroups.com
>  
> 
> .
>
>

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Re: [racket-users] Math-quiz program

[Hrvoje Blazevic]

Sure, here is the link:  https://hrvoje064.itch.io/jasnas-math-quiz



On Wednesday, September 7, 2022 at 3:41:50 AM UTC+8 jimmy...@gmail.com 
wrote:

> Can you link the game ?
>
> I would like to check it out.
>
> On Tue, Sep 6, 2022 at 2:40 PM 'John Clements' via Racket Users <
> racket...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
>> There are two raco tools that might be of use to you: here’s a link to 
>> the documentation for both of them:
>>
>> https://docs.racket-lang.org/guide/exe.html
>>
>> Also, I personally recommend using the discourse forum rather than this 
>> mailing list. Following the transition to discourse last year, the users 
>> mailing list is much less frequently used.
>>
>> https://racket.discourse.group/
>>
>> John Clements
>>
>>
>> On Sep 5, 2022, at 07:25, Hrvoje Blazevic  wrote:
>>
>> I've been working last several months on a GUI math 
>> training/understanding program for my 6 year old daughter who just started 
>> grade 1 (in Philippines - they start beginning of June). 
>> Originally I started with addition and subtraction, but as every new 
>> topic (math related) was introduced in school (like basic idea of 
>> fractions, clock and many others) and as I saw problems in understanding, I 
>> would add a new exercise to the program. It contains 12 exercises in all 
>> now, and is pretty much complete (I run out of ideas) :-) .
>>
>> My problem/question is following. 
>> As I've seen with my daughter, the program is very successful in teaching 
>> (at least it is with my daughter), and she actually enjoys using it (which 
>> was not the case when I originally started with papers of printed 
>> problems). Therefore I would like to post this program on the internet for 
>> other parents to use, but I can't find where Racket compiled/standalone 
>> programs are posted.
>>
>> I have of-course found Racket packages repository, but (I admit I know 
>> nothing of Racket packages) it does not seem to be what I need. As far as I 
>> see it, packages are for people who use racket, have racket installed on 
>> their computers, and know how to handle packages. 
>> This is definitely not the folks I have in mind for my program.
>>
>> So is there such a repository where I can post tarball containing 
>> compiled program, and source code.
>>
>> Hrvoje Blazevic
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "Racket Users" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to racket-users...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/41d08993-f323-4044-8c7c-239b58dcca8en%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>>
>> -- 
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>> email to racket-users...@googlegroups.com.
>>
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/e6302ee9-c345-45fe-8576-a4fd1223d176%40mtasv.net
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>

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Re: [racket-users] Math-quiz program

[Jimmy Ruska]

Can you link the game ?

I would like to check it out.

On Tue, Sep 6, 2022 at 2:40 PM 'John Clements' via Racket Users <
racket-users@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> There are two raco tools that might be of use to you: here’s a link to the
> documentation for both of them:
>
> https://docs.racket-lang.org/guide/exe.html
>
> Also, I personally recommend using the discourse forum rather than this
> mailing list. Following the transition to discourse last year, the users
> mailing list is much less frequently used.
>
> https://racket.discourse.group/
>
> John Clements
>
>
> On Sep 5, 2022, at 07:25, Hrvoje Blazevic  wrote:
>
> I've been working last several months on a GUI math training/understanding
> program for my 6 year old daughter who just started grade 1 (in Philippines
> - they start beginning of June).
> Originally I started with addition and subtraction, but as every new topic
> (math related) was introduced in school (like basic idea of fractions,
> clock and many others) and as I saw problems in understanding, I would add
> a new exercise to the program. It contains 12 exercises in all now, and is
> pretty much complete (I run out of ideas) :-) .
>
> My problem/question is following.
> As I've seen with my daughter, the program is very successful in teaching
> (at least it is with my daughter), and she actually enjoys using it (which
> was not the case when I originally started with papers of printed
> problems). Therefore I would like to post this program on the internet for
> other parents to use, but I can't find where Racket compiled/standalone
> programs are posted.
>
> I have of-course found Racket packages repository, but (I admit I know
> nothing of Racket packages) it does not seem to be what I need. As far as I
> see it, packages are for people who use racket, have racket installed on
> their computers, and know how to handle packages.
> This is definitely not the folks I have in mind for my program.
>
> So is there such a repository where I can post tarball containing compiled
> program, and source code.
>
> Hrvoje Blazevic
>
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Racket Users" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to racket-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/41d08993-f323-4044-8c7c-239b58dcca8en%40googlegroups.com
> 
> .
>
>
> --
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> 
> .
>

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Re: [racket-users] Math-quiz program

['John Clements' via Racket Users]

There are two raco tools that might be of use to you: here’s a link to the 
documentation for both of them:

https://docs.racket-lang.org/guide/exe.html

Also, I personally recommend using the discourse forum rather than this mailing 
list. Following the transition to discourse last year, the users mailing list 
is much less frequently used.

https://racket.discourse.group/

John Clements


> On Sep 5, 2022, at 07:25, Hrvoje Blazevic  wrote:
> 
> I've been working last several months on a GUI math training/understanding 
> program for my 6 year old daughter who just started grade 1 (in Philippines - 
> they start beginning of June). 
> Originally I started with addition and subtraction, but as every new topic 
> (math related) was introduced in school (like basic idea of fractions, clock 
> and many others) and as I saw problems in understanding, I would add a new 
> exercise to the program. It contains 12 exercises in all now, and is pretty 
> much complete (I run out of ideas) :-) .
> 
> My problem/question is following. 
> As I've seen with my daughter, the program is very successful in teaching (at 
> least it is with my daughter), and she actually enjoys using it (which was 
> not the case when I originally started with papers of printed problems). 
> Therefore I would like to post this program on the internet for other parents 
> to use, but I can't find where Racket compiled/standalone programs are posted.
> 
> I have of-course found Racket packages repository, but (I admit I know 
> nothing of Racket packages) it does not seem to be what I need. As far as I 
> see it, packages are for people who use racket, have racket installed on 
> their computers, and know how to handle packages. 
> This is definitely not the folks I have in mind for my program.
> 
> So is there such a repository where I can post tarball containing compiled 
> program, and source code.
> 
> Hrvoje Blazevic
> 
> 
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "Racket Users" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to racket-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com 
> .
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/41d08993-f323-4044-8c7c-239b58dcca8en%40googlegroups.com
>  
> .

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Re: [racket-users] Math-quiz program

[Jimmy Ruska]

Hmm try itch.io

I also made the some a long time back
http://www.jimmyr.com/blog/Speed_Math_Trainer_Program_126_2006.php
But it now requires a local download of flash player to open the swf files
from that page
https://get.adobe.com/flashplayer/about

On Mon, Sep 5, 2022 at 9:25 AM Hrvoje Blazevic  wrote:

> I've been working last several months on a GUI math training/understanding
> program for my 6 year old daughter who just started grade 1 (in Philippines
> - they start beginning of June).
> Originally I started with addition and subtraction, but as every new topic
> (math related) was introduced in school (like basic idea of fractions,
> clock and many others) and as I saw problems in understanding, I would add
> a new exercise to the program. It contains 12 exercises in all now, and is
> pretty much complete (I run out of ideas) :-) .
>
> My problem/question is following.
> As I've seen with my daughter, the program is very successful in teaching
> (at least it is with my daughter), and she actually enjoys using it (which
> was not the case when I originally started with papers of printed
> problems). Therefore I would like to post this program on the internet for
> other parents to use, but I can't find where Racket compiled/standalone
> programs are posted.
>
> I have of-course found Racket packages repository, but (I admit I know
> nothing of Racket packages) it does not seem to be what I need. As far as I
> see it, packages are for people who use racket, have racket installed on
> their computers, and know how to handle packages.
> This is definitely not the folks I have in mind for my program.
>
> So is there such a repository where I can post tarball containing compiled
> program, and source code.
>
> Hrvoje Blazevic
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Racket Users" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to racket-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/41d08993-f323-4044-8c7c-239b58dcca8en%40googlegroups.com
> 
> .
>

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Re: [racket-users] Writing a "command-line front-end" for a language

[Shu-Hung You]

On Sun, Sep 4, 2022 at 4:21 AM Reuben Thomas  wrote:
>
> On Sat, 3 Sept 2022 at 19:10, Shu-Hung You  wrote:
>>
>> Running `racket foo.asm` will produce the desired output, so a shell
>> script that directly passes the arguments to Racket could work.
>> Otherwise, just use (dynamic-require filename #f) in main.rkt.
>
>
> Thanks for helping!
>
> Don't both of these methods require a #lang line in the input file? That's 
> not part of the assembly format, so I want to be able to specify the language 
> in the main module. Indeed, when I try it with a file with a #lang line, 
> dynamic-require works; when I remove that line, I get an error about a 
> missing module declaration (no surprise). I can see an obvious workaround, 
> namely to slurp the file and prepend a module declaration before 
> dynamic-requiring it, but that's ugly.
>
> So it seems that in fact what I want is to call something like 
> dynamic-require with a module object. But I'm not sure what to call or how to 
> get one of those: read-syntax returns a syntax object, not a module, while I 
> don't (yet) know how to apply my expander's #%module-begin to it to obtain a 
> module.
>

Okay, if you want to bypass the #lang protocol entirely, here is the
needed code. As you have expected, it uses eval and then calls
dynamic-require.

diff --git a/asm.rkt b/asm.rkt
index f2f1e89..4d024d8 100644
--- a/asm.rkt
+++ b/asm.rkt
@@ -6,6 +6,7 @@

 (define (read-syntax path port)
   (define parse-tree (parse path (make-tokenizer port path)))
-  (strip-bindings
-   #`(module hackasm-mod hackasm/expander
-   #,parse-tree)))
+  (datum->syntax
+   #f
+   `(,#'module hackasm-mod hackasm/expander
+  ,parse-tree)))
diff --git a/main.rkt b/main.rkt
index 9f2af0b..9cccf22 100644
--- a/main.rkt
+++ b/main.rkt
@@ -8,4 +8,6 @@
   #:program "hackasm" ; FIXME: get name from project
   #:args (filename)
   filename)))
-(dynamic-require filename #f)))
\ No newline at end of file
+(parameterize ([current-namespace (make-base-empty-namespace)])
+  (eval (read-syntax filename (open-input-file filename)))
+  (dynamic-require '(quote hackasm-mod) #f

There are two technical details. The eval function takes pretty much
everything --- plain values, syntax objects, or just S-expressions,
etc. For eval, the difference between syntax objects and S-expressions
is that syntax objects carry binding information with them, therefore
eval can correctly run the code without the risk of misinterpreting
identifiers. The syntax object that your read-syntax returns is almost
runnable, so I use eval to evaluate the resulting module form (i.e.
#'(module hackasm-mod hackasm/expander ...)). This will declare a
module called ‘hackasm-mod’ together with its code in the current
namespace's module registry. Subsequently, dynamic-require
instantiates the module ‘hackasm-mod’ to run its body. The reference
https://docs.racket-lang.org/reference/module.html#%28form._%28%28quote._~23~25kernel%29._module%29%29
specifies what evaluating a module form results in (search for
"evaluation"). In dynamic-require, the module path (quote hackasm-mod)
refers to the module declared with the name ‘hackasm-mod’. In the more
common cases, module paths would be complete file paths. The page
https://docs.racket-lang.org/guide/module-paths.html explains the
syntax of module paths.

In the original read-syntax, I suppose strip-bindings removes all
binding information associated with the given syntax objects.
Consequently, eval would fail to interpret the resulting module form
because the "module" identifier in it is unbound and thus has no
meaning. To fix the issue, I explicitly use the #'module identifier
found in asm.rkt (which is the Racket binding of ‘module’, brought
into context by #lang br/quicklang). Then datum->syntax turns the
entire list into a syntax object with no binding information.
Equivalently, instead of changing read-syntax you can manually fix the
#'module identifier before `eval` using the low-level APIs syntax-e
and datum->syntax.

>> At the technical level, foo.asm is in fact an ordinary Racket module,
>> just like any other .rkt file. Therefore it can be run in the same way
>> using APIs that require and instantiate modules.
>
>
> Right! That's what I've obviously not fully understood yet.
>
> (Thanks for the side node about moving to Discourse—it's a while since I've 
> been active on the list!)
>
> --
> https://rrt.sc3d.org

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Re: [racket-users] Writing a "command-line front-end" for a language

['Reuben Thomas' via Racket Users]

On Sat, 3 Sept 2022 at 19:10, Shu-Hung You 
wrote:

> Running `racket foo.asm` will produce the desired output, so a shell
> script that directly passes the arguments to Racket could work.
> Otherwise, just use (dynamic-require filename #f) in main.rkt.
>

Thanks for helping!

Don't both of these methods require a #lang line in the input file? That's
not part of the assembly format, so I want to be able to specify the
language in the main module. Indeed, when I try it with a file with a #lang
line, dynamic-require works; when I remove that line, I get an error about
a missing module declaration (no surprise). I can see an obvious
workaround, namely to slurp the file and prepend a module declaration
before dynamic-requiring it, but that's ugly.

So it seems that in fact what I want is to call something like
dynamic-require with a module object. But I'm not sure what to call or how
to get one of those: read-syntax returns a syntax object, not a module,
while I don't (yet) know how to apply my expander's #%module-begin to it to
obtain a module.

At the technical level, foo.asm is in fact an ordinary Racket module,
> just like any other .rkt file. Therefore it can be run in the same way
> using APIs that require and instantiate modules.
>

Right! That's what I've obviously not fully understood yet.

(Thanks for the side node about moving to Discourse—it's a while since I've
been active on the list!)

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Re: [racket-users] how do I remove a specified collection?

[David Storrs]

The problem is more likely to do with the shell misunderstanding '?', but
you can find a collection using:
https://docs.racket-lang.org/raco-fc/index.html

On Mon, Aug 8, 2022 at 11:31 AM Don Green 
wrote:

> $ raco setup ?
> collection-path: collection not found
>   collection: "t"
>
> How do I go about finding and removing: collection: "t"  ?
> Thanks.
>
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> 
> .
>

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Re: [racket-users] raco pkg for a one-directory, moveable installation

[knigh...@gmail.com]

Thanks, that fixed it - I had set up  a script to do this a while ago but 
lost it, 
and forgot that this was in there. 

On Monday, August 8, 2022 at 10:24:11 PM UTC-4 Philip McGrath wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On Mon, Aug 8, 2022, at 5:46 PM, knigh...@gmail.com wrote:
> > Hello all
> > 
> > I'm trying to generate an installation that is self-contained, that I 
> can move to another machine just by tar-untar or zip-unzip.
> > 
> > The target machine may never be connected to the internet, so if I want 
> to install packages I must follow this procedure. 
> > 
>
> I would suggest running:
>
> ./bin/raco pkg config -i --set default-scope installation
>
> Setting the default scope to `installation` will cause commands like `raco 
> pkg install` to install packages in the "pkgs" directory of your 
> self-contained installation, rather than putting packages in a 
> user-specific place by default.
>
> (The more general `--scope` option is tricky to use correctly: I would 
> think of it as a hook for higher-level tools.)
>
> -Philip
>

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Re: [racket-users] How shall I add collection path?

[Philip McGrath]

Hi,

On Mon, Aug 8, 2022, at 12:59 PM, Don Green wrote:
> For some reason, the collection directories below does not include the only 
> collection directory that I use: 
> /home/don/.plt-scheme/4.2.1/collects
> which I do have showing up in DrRacket's options: /Language/Choose Language/ 
> Collection Paths: 
> <>
> /home/don/.plt-scheme/4.2.1/collects
> --
> Error Msg:
> standard-module-name-resolver: collection not found
>   for module path: DG/all/copy-dir-without-subdirs
>   collection: "DG/all"
>   in collection directories:
>/home/don/.racket/8.1/collects
>/home/don/racket/collects/
>... [175 additional linked and package directories]
>   context...:
>/home/don/racket/share/pkgs/scribble-lib/scribble/search.rkt:69:5: loop
>[repeats 1 more time]
>/home/don/racket/share/pkgs/scribble-lib/scribble/xref.rkt:122:2: 
> xref-binding-tag
>.../private/coroutine.rkt:20:33
>/home/don/racket/share/pkgs/gui-lib/framework/private/coroutine.rkt:47:20
>/home/don/racket/share/pkgs/gui-lib/framework/private/coroutine.rkt:56:0: 
> coroutine-run
>
> /home/don/racket/collects/racket/contract/private/arrow-val-first.rkt:486:18
>
> /home/don/racket/share/pkgs/drracket/drracket/private/syncheck/blueboxes-gui.rkt:457:4:
>  update-the-strs method in docs-text-gui-mixin
>
> /home/don/racket/share/pkgs/gui-lib/framework/private/logging-timer.rkt:41:0: 
> log-timeline/proc
>/home/don/racket/share/pkgs/gui-lib/mred/private/wx/common/timer.rkt:34:38
>/home/don/racket/share/pkgs/gui-lib/mred/private/wx/common/queue.rkt:435:6
>/home/don/racket/share/pkgs/gui-lib/mred/private/wx/common/queue.rkt:486:32
>/home/don/racket/share/pkgs/gui-lib/mred/private/wx/common/queue.rkt:634:3
> 

It would be easier to help if you could keep you could keep your replies within 
a single thread.

This error message reveals that the update-the-strs method of 
docs-text-gui-mixin defined in 
,
 which seems to be part of how DrRacket displays "blue boxes" with 
documentation, is calling the Scribble function `find-racket-tag` defined at 
.

Could you explain what you are doing when you encounter this error? For 
example, are you hovering over an identifier in DrRacket? Is the error 
displayed in a dialog box saying "DrRacket Internal Error".

Also, it would help to know if you have made any changes to your Racket 
installation recently, such as changing to a new Racket version.

One possibility is that DrRacket may not communicate the collection paths set 
through the GUI to the functions that look up documentation. I'm not sure if 
DrRacket intends to support finding documentation for collections configured 
that way (though, even if not, it shouldn't cause an internal error).

More generally, it sounds like you have code in 
"/home/don/.plt-scheme/4.2.1/collects" that predates Racket's package system. 
You are of course free to continue to manage it using "collection links", but 
manipulating collection links directly is no longer recommended: it is 
difficult to do correctly, there are limited tools to assist you, and you may 
encounter bugs in tools that haven't thought about non-standard configurations. 
(Buggy tools should be fixed, of course! And I say this as someone who myself 
runs Racket in non-standard configurations that sometimes expose such bugs.)

But I think it would be much easier for you if you could structure the code in 
"/home/don/.plt-scheme/4.2.1/collects" as a package, as I suggested before: 
https://groups.google.com/g/racket-users/c/OtJV3yUDp2k/m/swka-AWXBwAJ

-Philip

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Re: [racket-users] raco pkg for a one-directory, moveable installation

[Philip McGrath]

Hi,

On Mon, Aug 8, 2022, at 5:46 PM, knigh...@gmail.com wrote:
> Hello all
> 
> I'm trying to generate an installation that is self-contained, that I can 
> move to another machine just by tar-untar or zip-unzip.
> 
> The target machine may never be connected to the internet, so if I want to 
> install packages I must follow this procedure. 
> 

I would suggest running:

./bin/raco pkg config -i  --set default-scope installation

Setting the default scope to `installation` will cause commands like `raco pkg 
install` to install packages in the "pkgs" directory of your self-contained 
installation, rather than putting packages in a user-specific place by default.

(The more general `--scope` option is tricky to use correctly: I would think of 
it as a hook for higher-level tools.)

-Philip

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Re: [racket-users] how do I remove a specified collection?

[Sam Tobin-Hochstadt]

I don't think that you need to remove `t`. Instead, your problem is
that somewhere something is calling `collection-path` with "t" as an
argument. If you provide more information about the context and the
error message, it would be easier to help here.

Sam

On Mon, Aug 8, 2022 at 11:31 AM Don Green  wrote:
>
> $ raco setup ?
> collection-path: collection not found
>   collection: "t"
>
> How do I go about finding and removing: collection: "t"  ?
> Thanks.
>
> --
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Re: [racket-users] Re: Detecting broken inbound TCP connections

[Jeff Henrikson]

Thanks Tony,

I can confirm that eof-evt promptly delivers the expected information 
about the dropped TCP connection.


Can an application promptly find out about dropped connections from any 
available HTTP library for racket?



Jeff



Tony Garnock-Jones
unread,
Jul 2, 2022, 9:23:51 AM (2 days ago)
to Racket Users
Ah, sorry, try `eof-evt` instead of `port-closed-evt`. When I swap the 
one for the other, your program gives the output you expected. Perhaps 
port closing is something for the Racket program to do, and is 
separate from the signalling from the remote peer. You'll get an 
`eof-object?` value from read routines when the connection closes.


On 7/1/22 5:40 PM, George Neuner wrote:

Hi Jeff,

Note that most network problems result in an exception ... which your 
code is not catching and which you might have missed seeing in the 
output.  You need to catch *exn:fail:network* and examine the *errno* 
field to figure out what happened. *


errno* is a cons: *( integer . symbol )*  of the error code and a 
symbol identifying the platform for which the error has meaning.  The 
codes are (somewhat) platform dependent so you will need other 
references to decode them.


For more, see:

  * 
https://docs.racket-lang.org/reference/exns.html#%28def._%28%28lib._racket%2Fprivate%2Fbase..rkt%29._exn%29%29
  * 
https://docs.racket-lang.org/reference/exns.html#%28def._%28%28lib._racket%2Fprivate%2Fbase..rkt%29._exn~3afail~3anetwork~3aerrno%29%29


Hope this helps,
George



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Re: [racket-users] can't open DrRacket 8.5 on M1 macOS

[Lu, Kuang-Chen]

Thanks! I have forwarded your messages to her and will keep you and this
group updated.

On Mon, Jul 4, 2022 at 4:21 AM Jens Axel Søgaard 
wrote:

> Also - was Racket moved to the Applications ?
> It looks like your colleague is opening from the downloaded archive [but I
> could be wrong].
>
> Den man. 4. jul. 2022 kl. 13.18 skrev Jens Axel Søgaard <
> jensa...@soegaard.net>:
>
>> Can you open it from the terminal:
>>
>> open /Applications/Racket\ v8.5/DrRacket.app
>>
>> This way any errors will be visible.
>>
>> /Jens Axel
>>
>> Den man. 4. jul. 2022 kl. 12.49 skrev Kuang-Chen Lu <
>> kuang-chen...@brown.edu>:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> My colleague can’t open a fresh installation of DrRacket. She installed
>>> the DrRacket 8.5 Apple Silicon 64-bit version.
>>>
>>> Her screen recording
>>> 
>>> shows more details:
>>>
>>>- After trying to open DrRacket (00:00 of the video), no window
>>>shows up
>>>- Besides, DrRacket cannot be found in the Activity Monitor (00:08),
>>>which confirms that DrRacket is not running.
>>>- After trying to open DrRacket again (00:15), still, no window
>>>shows up
>>>- If you look at the Dock (the sequence of App icons at the bottom
>>>of the screen) carefully, you will notice that something shows up and 
>>> then
>>>disappears immediately every time (00:02 and 00:16) DrRacket is opened.
>>>This suggests that DrRacket is closed immediately after being opened.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Kuang-Chen
>>>
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups "Racket Users" group.
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>>> an email to racket-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/3ec173be-bfbd-4ba2-a019-12b4479501c9n%40googlegroups.com
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> --
>> Jens Axel Søgaard
>>
>>
>
> --
> --
> Jens Axel Søgaard
>
>

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Re: [racket-users] can't open DrRacket 8.5 on M1 macOS

[Jens Axel Søgaard]

Also - was Racket moved to the Applications ?
It looks like your colleague is opening from the downloaded archive [but I
could be wrong].

Den man. 4. jul. 2022 kl. 13.18 skrev Jens Axel Søgaard <
jensa...@soegaard.net>:

> Can you open it from the terminal:
>
> open /Applications/Racket\ v8.5/DrRacket.app
>
> This way any errors will be visible.
>
> /Jens Axel
>
> Den man. 4. jul. 2022 kl. 12.49 skrev Kuang-Chen Lu <
> kuang-chen...@brown.edu>:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> My colleague can’t open a fresh installation of DrRacket. She installed
>> the DrRacket 8.5 Apple Silicon 64-bit version.
>>
>> Her screen recording
>> 
>> shows more details:
>>
>>- After trying to open DrRacket (00:00 of the video), no window shows
>>up
>>- Besides, DrRacket cannot be found in the Activity Monitor (00:08),
>>which confirms that DrRacket is not running.
>>- After trying to open DrRacket again (00:15), still, no window shows
>>up
>>- If you look at the Dock (the sequence of App icons at the bottom of
>>the screen) carefully, you will notice that something shows up and then
>>disappears immediately every time (00:02 and 00:16) DrRacket is opened.
>>This suggests that DrRacket is closed immediately after being opened.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Kuang-Chen
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "Racket Users" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to racket-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/3ec173be-bfbd-4ba2-a019-12b4479501c9n%40googlegroups.com
>> 
>> .
>>
>
>
> --
> --
> Jens Axel Søgaard
>
>

-- 
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Re: [racket-users] can't open DrRacket 8.5 on M1 macOS

[Jens Axel Søgaard]

Can you open it from the terminal:

open /Applications/Racket\ v8.5/DrRacket.app

This way any errors will be visible.

/Jens Axel

Den man. 4. jul. 2022 kl. 12.49 skrev Kuang-Chen Lu :

> Hi,
>
> My colleague can’t open a fresh installation of DrRacket. She installed
> the DrRacket 8.5 Apple Silicon 64-bit version.
>
> Her screen recording
> 
> shows more details:
>
>- After trying to open DrRacket (00:00 of the video), no window shows
>up
>- Besides, DrRacket cannot be found in the Activity Monitor (00:08),
>which confirms that DrRacket is not running.
>- After trying to open DrRacket again (00:15), still, no window shows
>up
>- If you look at the Dock (the sequence of App icons at the bottom of
>the screen) carefully, you will notice that something shows up and then
>disappears immediately every time (00:02 and 00:16) DrRacket is opened.
>This suggests that DrRacket is closed immediately after being opened.
>
> Thanks,
> Kuang-Chen
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Racket Users" group.
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> email to racket-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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> 
> .
>


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Re: [racket-users] Re: Detecting broken inbound TCP connections

[George Neuner]

Hi Jeff,

Note that most network problems result in an exception ... which your 
code is not catching and which you might have missed seeing in the 
output.  You need to catch *exn:fail:network* and examine the *errno* 
field to figure out what happened. *


errno* is a cons: *( integer . symbol )*  of the error code and a symbol 
identifying the platform for which the error has meaning.  The codes are 
(somewhat) platform dependent so you will need other references to 
decode them.


For more, see:

 * 
https://docs.racket-lang.org/reference/exns.html#%28def._%28%28lib._racket%2Fprivate%2Fbase..rkt%29._exn%29%29
 * 
https://docs.racket-lang.org/reference/exns.html#%28def._%28%28lib._racket%2Fprivate%2Fbase..rkt%29._exn~3afail~3anetwork~3aerrno%29%29


Hope this helps,
George

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Re: [racket-users] commenting / uncommenting in DrRacket IDE

[Laurent]

On Fri, Jul 1, 2022 at 9:25 AM Hrvoje Blazevic  wrote:

> Thanks for replying. However, I was not asking for instructions on how to
> use DrRacket. Have been using it since the days when HTDP1 was first
> printed, and when it was called DrScheme.
> But to answer your question in Racket 8.5 and Fedora 36 with Gome WM
> uncommenting does not work, not with ';' and not with box.
>
> Funny enough, I just installed full Racket 8.5 on my daughter's raspberry
> pi 4B "toy" computer, running Raspberry Pi OS (Debian), and there both
> commenting and uncommenting works!
>

It works for me on Ubuntu/Debian with Gnome or Cinnamon with Racket 8.5 on
several machines. If you run DrRacket from the command line, do you see an
exception being raised when you click on Uncomment?

Maybe also try a fresh install of Racket with a new user, in case your
racket config (either in .racket or in .config/racket) is flawed somehow.

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Re: [racket-users] commenting / uncommenting in DrRacket IDE

[Hrvoje Blazevic]

Thanks for replying. However, I was not asking for instructions on how to
use DrRacket. Have been using it since the days when HTDP1 was first
printed, and when it was called DrScheme.
But to answer your question in Racket 8.5 and Fedora 36 with Gome WM
uncommenting does not work, not with ';' and not with box.

Funny enough, I just installed full Racket 8.5 on my daughter's raspberry
pi 4B "toy" computer, running Raspberry Pi OS (Debian), and there both
commenting and uncommenting works!

Hrvoje Blazevic



On Fri, Jul 1, 2022 at 4:02 PM Laurent  wrote:

> After commenting out with a box, place the cursor inside the box then
> click on the "Racket" menu then on the "Uncomment" item. Now the box should
> be uncommented without losing anything. Does this not work for you?
>
> HTH,
> Laurent
>
> On Fri, Jul 1, 2022 at 5:39 AM Hrvoje Blazevic 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi, I have reported this problem a few years ago (this on Fedora Linux
>> using Gnome), and looks like something was done, but not all.
>> When I first reported, DrRacket was not commenting at all. Not with ;;,
>> nor with a box. Now it does comment with both, but it does not uncomment.
>> Ok, I can uncomment the region manually if I commented with ;; but if I
>> used a box, I can only delete the whole thing. BTW I'm using Racket 8.5 on
>> Fedora 36.
>> Anything being done with this?
>>
>> Hrvoje Blazevic
>>
>> --
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>> 
>> .
>>
>

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Re: [racket-users] commenting / uncommenting in DrRacket IDE

[Laurent]

After commenting out with a box, place the cursor inside the box then click
on the "Racket" menu then on the "Uncomment" item. Now the box should be
uncommented without losing anything. Does this not work for you?

HTH,
Laurent

On Fri, Jul 1, 2022 at 5:39 AM Hrvoje Blazevic  wrote:

> Hi, I have reported this problem a few years ago (this on Fedora Linux
> using Gnome), and looks like something was done, but not all.
> When I first reported, DrRacket was not commenting at all. Not with ;;,
> nor with a box. Now it does comment with both, but it does not uncomment.
> Ok, I can uncomment the region manually if I commented with ;; but if I
> used a box, I can only delete the whole thing. BTW I'm using Racket 8.5 on
> Fedora 36.
> Anything being done with this?
>
> Hrvoje Blazevic
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Racket Users" group.
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> 
> .
>

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Re: [racket-users] [meta] Please review pending member requests?

[Robby Findler]

I've just approved the ones who wrote sensible comments. If that wasn't the
one to approve, please let me know and I'll approve that one, too.

We had a serious spam problem on this list due to bots (I presume)
subscribing, so I'm a bit gunshy about adding folks. There are other list
admins too who might have some better predicate than mine for identifying
actual people to let in, tho!

Robby


On Thu, Jun 30, 2022 at 10:10 AM thomas_d...@alumni.brown.edu <
thomas_dicker...@alumni.brown.edu> wrote:

> thanks for the heads up - I'll pass it along :)
>
> On Thursday, June 30, 2022 at 10:30:23 AM UTC-4 jry...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> I am not a list admin, so I can't help with your original request,
>> but... I thought it would be good to highlight that nearly all Racket
>> discussion has moved away from these mailing lists and over to the
>> Discourse-based forum at https://racket.discourse.group. I would
>> recommend moving over there instead as you're more likely to get
>> replies.
>>
>> - Ryan
>>
>> On Thu, 30 Jun 2022 at 15:24, thomas_d...@alumni.brown.edu
>>  wrote:
>> >
>> > Hi Admins - If you could approve pending subscription requests for the
>> listserv that would be great. One of my interns has been stuck in the queue
>> for more than a week
>> >
>> > --
>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>> Groups "Racket Users" group.
>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>> an email to racket-users...@googlegroups.com.
>> > To view this discussion on the web visit
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/ddaac2fb-8ac5-4a79-84a6-adad2053a690n%40googlegroups.com.
>>
>>
> --
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> 
> .
>

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Re: [racket-users] [meta] Please review pending member requests?

[thomas_d...@alumni.brown.edu]

thanks for the heads up - I'll pass it along :)

On Thursday, June 30, 2022 at 10:30:23 AM UTC-4 jry...@gmail.com wrote:

> I am not a list admin, so I can't help with your original request,
> but... I thought it would be good to highlight that nearly all Racket
> discussion has moved away from these mailing lists and over to the
> Discourse-based forum at https://racket.discourse.group. I would
> recommend moving over there instead as you're more likely to get
> replies.
>
> - Ryan
>
> On Thu, 30 Jun 2022 at 15:24, thomas_d...@alumni.brown.edu
>  wrote:
> >
> > Hi Admins - If you could approve pending subscription requests for the 
> listserv that would be great. One of my interns has been stuck in the queue 
> for more than a week
> >
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
> Groups "Racket Users" group.
> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
> an email to racket-users...@googlegroups.com.
> > To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/ddaac2fb-8ac5-4a79-84a6-adad2053a690n%40googlegroups.com
> .
>

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Re: [racket-users] [meta] Please review pending member requests?

[J. Ryan Stinnett]

I am not a list admin, so I can't help with your original request,
but... I thought it would be good to highlight that nearly all Racket
discussion has moved away from these mailing lists and over to the
Discourse-based forum at https://racket.discourse.group. I would
recommend moving over there instead as you're more likely to get
replies.

- Ryan

On Thu, 30 Jun 2022 at 15:24, thomas_d...@alumni.brown.edu
 wrote:
>
> Hi Admins - If you could approve pending subscription requests for the 
> listserv that would be great. One of my interns has been stuck in the queue 
> for more than a week
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "Racket Users" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to racket-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/ddaac2fb-8ac5-4a79-84a6-adad2053a690n%40googlegroups.com.

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Re: [racket-users] self contained zip file install?

[Bruce O'Neel]

HI,

If you do the build like I said it does not need to live in Program
Files.  It can live in your user directory, for example.  It works
fine.

cheers

bruce

On 2022-06-18T21:36:56.000+02:00, knigh...@gmail.com
 wrote:

> No powershell, it's very tightly locked down
> 
> Maybe someone can give feedback (will it work) on this hack
> 
> Hmmm ... If there's no easy, quick way I'll try to run a windows VM
> at home,  
> install in that VM, and copy racket from the VM's Windows 
> "Program Files"
>  folder to a USB, and put that on my work machine
> 
> -- 
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> 
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> 
>[https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/c6bde6cd-0256-4f2d-b5e7-c39ed84cf702n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email_source=footer].
> 
> On Saturday, June 18, 2022 at 2:55:21 PM UTC-4 Bruce O'Neel wrote:
> 
>>  HI,
>>  
>>  So before I would download the minimal windows tar file to a linux
>>  system, untar it, and then zip it back up.
>>  
>>  Then that could be copied to the corporate windows system and
>>  unzipped.  And that give a minimal Racket.
>>  
>>  The part that has stopped working is I used to be able to, from
>>  cmd, run:
>>  
>>  raco pkg install -i racket-lib
>>  
>>  raco pkg install --deps search-auto -i main-distribution
>>  
>>  And I would have a fully working Racket.
>>  
>>  So this required cmd.exe to be run.  Can you run Powershell?
>>   That can be convinced to do those commands as well but I don't
>>  know how to do that.  There might even be some way in minimal
>>  racket to convince those commands to be run.
>>  
>>  What does not work anymore is that one of the packages is blocked
>>  by the corporate proxy now as a "virus" so minimal racket it is.
>>  
>>  cheers
>>  
>>  bruce
>>  
>>  On 2022-06-18T18:06:54.000+02:00, knigh...@gmail.com [//]
>>   wrote:
>>  
>>>   Hi all
>>>   
>>>   Is there a plain ZIP file for kind-of installing racket? (must
>>>   be ZIP - I can't even get a 7zip uninstaller installed).
>>>   I won't be able to put it in the standard Program Files folder
>>>   and can't associate rkt files but I'm allowed to set up a plain
>>>   directory and run from there. 
>>>   
>>>   I may download and work with files, but I have no admin on
>>>   this 
>>>   Windows 10 system
>>>   not even cmd - it's disallowed.
>>  
>>>   -- 
>>>   You received this message because you are subscribed to the
>>>   Google Groups "Racket Users" group.
>>>   To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from
>>>   it, send an email to racket-users...@googlegroups.com [//].
>>>   To view this discussion on the web visit
>>>   
>>>https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/36036b4f-5bc6-4cd4-8807-b8761e96c547n%40googlegroups.com
>>>   
>>>[https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/36036b4f-5bc6-4cd4-8807-b8761e96c547n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email_source=footer].

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Re: [racket-users] self contained zip file install?

[knigh...@gmail.com]

>>  No powershell, it's very tightly locked down

not even the shortcut to run programs - 
Windows key+r

On Saturday, June 18, 2022 at 3:36:56 PM UTC-4 knigh...@gmail.com wrote:

> No powershell, it's very tightly locked down
>
> Maybe someone can give feedback (will it work) on this hack
>
> Hmmm ... If there's no easy, quick way I'll try to run a windows VM at 
> home,  
> install in that VM, and copy racket from the VM's Windows 
> "Program Files"
>  folder to a USB, and put that on my work machine
>
> On Saturday, June 18, 2022 at 2:55:21 PM UTC-4 Bruce O'Neel wrote:
>
>> HI,
>>
>> So before I would download the minimal windows tar file to a linux 
>> system, untar it, and then zip it back up.
>>
>> Then that could be copied to the corporate windows system and unzipped. 
>>  And that give a minimal Racket.
>>
>> The part that has stopped working is I used to be able to, from cmd, run:
>>
>> raco pkg install -i racket-lib
>> raco pkg install --deps search-auto -i main-distribution
>>
>> And I would have a fully working Racket.
>>
>> So this required cmd.exe to be run.  Can you run Powershell?  That can be 
>> convinced to do those commands as well but I don't know how to do that. 
>>  There might even be some way in minimal racket to convince those commands 
>> to be run.
>>
>> What does not work anymore is that one of the packages is blocked by the 
>> corporate proxy now as a "virus" so minimal racket it is.
>>
>> cheers
>>
>> bruce
>>
>> On 2022-06-18T18:06:54.000+02:00, knigh...@gmail.com  
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi all
>>
>> Is there a plain ZIP file for kind-of installing racket? (must be ZIP - I 
>> can't even get a 7zip uninstaller installed).
>> I won't be able to put it in the standard Program Files folder and can't 
>> associate rkt files but I'm allowed to set up a plain directory and run 
>> from there. 
>>
>> I may download and work with files, but I have no admin on this 
>> Windows 10 system
>> not even cmd - it's disallowed.
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "Racket Users" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to racket-users...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/36036b4f-5bc6-4cd4-8807-b8761e96c547n%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>>

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Re: [racket-users] self contained zip file install?

[knigh...@gmail.com]

No powershell, it's very tightly locked down

Maybe someone can give feedback (will it work) on this hack

Hmmm ... If there's no easy, quick way I'll try to run a windows VM at 
home,  
install in that VM, and copy racket from the VM's Windows 
"Program Files"
 folder to a USB, and put that on my work machine

On Saturday, June 18, 2022 at 2:55:21 PM UTC-4 Bruce O'Neel wrote:

> HI,
>
> So before I would download the minimal windows tar file to a linux system, 
> untar it, and then zip it back up.
>
> Then that could be copied to the corporate windows system and unzipped. 
>  And that give a minimal Racket.
>
> The part that has stopped working is I used to be able to, from cmd, run:
>
> raco pkg install -i racket-lib
> raco pkg install --deps search-auto -i main-distribution
>
> And I would have a fully working Racket.
>
> So this required cmd.exe to be run.  Can you run Powershell?  That can be 
> convinced to do those commands as well but I don't know how to do that. 
>  There might even be some way in minimal racket to convince those commands 
> to be run.
>
> What does not work anymore is that one of the packages is blocked by the 
> corporate proxy now as a "virus" so minimal racket it is.
>
> cheers
>
> bruce
>
> On 2022-06-18T18:06:54.000+02:00, knigh...@gmail.com  
> wrote:
>
> Hi all
>
> Is there a plain ZIP file for kind-of installing racket? (must be ZIP - I 
> can't even get a 7zip uninstaller installed).
> I won't be able to put it in the standard Program Files folder and can't 
> associate rkt files but I'm allowed to set up a plain directory and run 
> from there. 
>
> I may download and work with files, but I have no admin on this 
> Windows 10 system
> not even cmd - it's disallowed.
>
>
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "Racket Users" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to racket-users...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/36036b4f-5bc6-4cd4-8807-b8761e96c547n%40googlegroups.com
>  
> 
> .
>
>

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Re: [racket-users] self contained zip file install?

[Bruce O'Neel]

HI,

So before I would download the minimal windows tar file to a linux
system, untar it, and then zip it back up.

Then that could be copied to the corporate windows system and
unzipped.  And that give a minimal Racket.

The part that has stopped working is I used to be able to, from cmd,
run:

raco pkg install -i racket-lib

raco pkg install --deps search-auto -i main-distribution

And I would have a fully working Racket.

So this required cmd.exe to be run.  Can you run Powershell?  That
can be convinced to do those commands as well but I don't know how to
do that.  There might even be some way in minimal racket to convince
those commands to be run.

What does not work anymore is that one of the packages is blocked by
the corporate proxy now as a "virus" so minimal racket it is.

cheers

bruce

On 2022-06-18T18:06:54.000+02:00, knigh...@gmail.com
 wrote:

> Hi all
> 
> Is there a plain ZIP file for kind-of installing racket? (must be
> ZIP - I can't even get a 7zip uninstaller installed).
> I won't be able to put it in the standard Program Files folder and
> can't associate rkt files but I'm allowed to set up a plain
> directory and run from there. 
> 
> I may download and work with files, but I have no admin on this 
> Windows 10 system
> not even cmd - it's disallowed.
> 
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "Racket Users" group.
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> 
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> 
>[https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/36036b4f-5bc6-4cd4-8807-b8761e96c547n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email_source=footer].

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Re: [racket-users] map in typed/racket

[Sorawee Porncharoenwase]

You need to assist Typed Racket by using inst.

#lang typed/racket

((inst map String (Listof String)) car '(("Eins" "One" "Un") ("Zwei"
"Dos" "Two" "Deux") ("Drei" "Tres" "Trois")))

should work fine.

By the way, we have practically moved the mailing list to
https://racket.discourse.group/. You might want to post there in the future.

On Fri, Jun 10, 2022 at 2:04 PM Axel Schnell  wrote:

> I have a little bit of a problem in understanding the function map with
> typed/racket.
> My problem starts with an application of map which in normal racket is
> very straight forward:
> > (map car '(("Eins" "One" "Un") ("Zwei" "Dos" "Two" "Deux") ("Drei"
> "Tres" "Trois")))
> '("Eins" "Zwei" "Drei")
> If map is applied this way in typed/racket it yields an error:
> Type Checker: Polymorphic function `map' could not be applied to arguments:
> Domains: (-> a b ... b c) (Listof a) (Listof b) ... b
>  (-> a c) (Pairof a (Listof a))
> Arguments: (All (a b) (case-> (-> (Pairof a b) a) (-> (Listof a) a)))
> (List (List String String String) (List String String String String) (List
> String String String))
> There is an easy way to get around this by using for/list with some type
> annotations.
> > (let ([ml '(("Eins" "One" "Un") ("Zwei" "Dos" "Two" "Deux") ("Drei"
> "Tres" "Trois"))])
> (for/list : (Listof String) ([l : (Listof String) ml]) (car l)))
> - : (Listof String)
> '("Eins" "Zwei" "Drei")
> But this leaves me a little bit irritated. The function map has the
> following type in typed/racket:
> > map
> - : (All (c a b ...)
>   (case->
>(-> (-> a c) (Pairof a (Listof a)) (Pairof c (Listof c)))
>(-> (-> a b ... b c) (Listof a) (Listof b) ... b (Listof c
> #
> So in my code here I believed the type system would pick the first case
> where map is a function that takes two arguments a function with the domain
> of a and the range of c and as second argument a not emtpy list of type a.
> I thought the type placeholder a could in this case be (Listof String) so
> (Pairof a (Listof a)) translates to (Pairof String (Listof String)) which
> is the same as a nonempty (Listof String).
> But apparantly the type system has a different view and is unable to apply
> map to the supplied arguments.
> So I do need some help to get a better understanding of the type system.
> Thanks to everyone who reads this.
>
> --
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> 
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>

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Re: [racket-users] Combining contract checking with normalization?

[jackh...@gmail.com]

This is also something I want and have thought about for some time. My main 
use case is for functions that I want to accept an arbitrary sequence, but 
coerce the sequence to a list/set/etc. if it's not already a list/set/etc. 
I think one viable approach would be to do the following:

   1. Add a notion of "coercing contracts" whose expressiveness lies 
   between chaperone contracts and impersonator contracts. A coercing contract 
   is allowed to produce a non-equal result, but only in a way that 
   "normalizes" the input: (c (c x)) should be equal to (c x) for any coercing 
   contract c, but (c x) does not have to be equal to x. Many situations that 
   currently disallow impersonator contracts could reasonably allow coercing 
   contracts, including hash/c.
   2. Make it easier to combine define/contract and module boundary 
   contracts. Using just define/contract gives you lousy blame boundaries for 
   clients of your module, but that would be trivially easy to fix if 
   `recontract-out` worked on identifiers bound with define/contract.

Using your path-string? example, this would result in something like this:

(provide (recontract-out read-config-file))
(define path-string/c (coerce/c path-string? string->path))
(define/contract (read-config-file path)
  (-> path-string/c config?)
  (parse-config (file->string path)))

On Monday, March 7, 2022 at 7:56:52 AM UTC-8 david@gmail.com wrote:

> Would this give part of what you're looking for?
>
> #lang racket
>
> (define (my-string-length s)
>   ((or/c (and/c (or/c symbol? string?) (compose1 string-length ~a))
>  (curry raise-arguments-error 'my-string-length "invalid arg" 
> "arg"))
>s))
>
> (my-string-length "foo")
> (my-string-length 'foo)
> (my-string-length 7)
>
>
> It's not something you'd want to write by hand in a lot of places, but it 
> seems an easy target for a macro.
>
>
> On Sun, Mar 6, 2022 at 10:47 AM Alexis King  wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> As a user of the Racket contract system, I sometimes find myself thinking 
>> about the potential utility of “coercing” or “canonicalizing” contracts. In 
>> Racket programs, we often idiomatically allow values to be provided to a 
>> function in a non-canonical form for the sake of convenience. One example 
>> is the commonly-used path-string? contract, which is morally equivalent 
>> to using path? but allows the caller to omit an explicit use of 
>> string->path. Another example is the commonly-used failure-result/c 
>> contract, which allows the caller to omit wrapping non-procedures in a 
>> thunk.
>>
>> While this idiom does make life easier for one party to the contract, it 
>> ultimately just transfers the burden of canonicalizing the value to the 
>> other party. This is unfortunate, because it results in a duplication of 
>> both logic and work:
>>
>>- 
>>
>>Code to canonicalize the value must be written separately and kept in 
>>sync with the contract, which is error-prone.
>>- 
>>
>>The value ends up being inspected twice: once to determine if it 
>>satisfies the contract, and a second time to convert it to canonical form.
>>
>> (In the nomenclature of a popular blog post I wrote a few years ago, 
>> these contracts are validating, not parsing 
>> .)
>>
>> In theory, it is perfectly possible to implement a canonicalizing 
>> contract using the current contract system. However, such a contract has 
>> several practical downsides:
>>
>>- 
>>
>>It is necessarily an impersonator contract, not a chaperone contract. 
>>This prevents its use in places that demand a chaperone contract, such as 
>>the *key* argument to hash/c.
>>- 
>>
>>It moves actual logic into the contract itself, which means using the 
>>uncontracted value directly is less convenient. This encourages placing 
>> the 
>>contract boundary close to the value’s definition to create a very small 
>>contracted region (e.g. via define/contract), even though blame is 
>>generally more useful when the contract boundary corresponds to a 
>> boundary 
>>between higher-level components (e.g. via contract-out).
>>- 
>>
>>There is no way to write such contracts using the combinators 
>>provided by racket/contract, so they must be implemented via the 
>>lower level make-contract/build-contract-property API. This can be 
>>subtle to use correctly, and it makes it unlikely that contract 
>> violations 
>>made by the contract itself will be blamed properly according to the 
>> “indy” 
>>blame semantics used by ->i.
>>
>> All this is to say that the current contract system clearly discourages 
>> this use of contracts, which suggests this would be considered an abuse of 
>> the contract system. Nevertheless, the coupling between validating values 
>> and converting them to a normal form is so enormously tight that allowing 
>> them to be 

Re: [racket-users] Combining contract checking with normalization?

[David Storrs]

Would this give part of what you're looking for?

#lang racket

(define (my-string-length s)
  ((or/c (and/c (or/c symbol? string?) (compose1 string-length ~a))
 (curry raise-arguments-error 'my-string-length "invalid arg"
"arg"))
   s))

(my-string-length "foo")
(my-string-length 'foo)
(my-string-length 7)


It's not something you'd want to write by hand in a lot of places, but it
seems an easy target for a macro.


On Sun, Mar 6, 2022 at 10:47 AM Alexis King  wrote:

> Hello,
>
> As a user of the Racket contract system, I sometimes find myself thinking
> about the potential utility of “coercing” or “canonicalizing” contracts. In
> Racket programs, we often idiomatically allow values to be provided to a
> function in a non-canonical form for the sake of convenience. One example
> is the commonly-used path-string? contract, which is morally equivalent
> to using path? but allows the caller to omit an explicit use of
> string->path. Another example is the commonly-used failure-result/c
> contract, which allows the caller to omit wrapping non-procedures in a
> thunk.
>
> While this idiom does make life easier for one party to the contract, it
> ultimately just transfers the burden of canonicalizing the value to the
> other party. This is unfortunate, because it results in a duplication of
> both logic and work:
>
>-
>
>Code to canonicalize the value must be written separately and kept in
>sync with the contract, which is error-prone.
>-
>
>The value ends up being inspected twice: once to determine if it
>satisfies the contract, and a second time to convert it to canonical form.
>
> (In the nomenclature of a popular blog post I wrote a few years ago, these
> contracts are validating, not parsing
> .)
>
> In theory, it is perfectly possible to implement a canonicalizing contract
> using the current contract system. However, such a contract has several
> practical downsides:
>
>-
>
>It is necessarily an impersonator contract, not a chaperone contract.
>This prevents its use in places that demand a chaperone contract, such as
>the *key* argument to hash/c.
>-
>
>It moves actual logic into the contract itself, which means using the
>uncontracted value directly is less convenient. This encourages placing the
>contract boundary close to the value’s definition to create a very small
>contracted region (e.g. via define/contract), even though blame is
>generally more useful when the contract boundary corresponds to a boundary
>between higher-level components (e.g. via contract-out).
>-
>
>There is no way to write such contracts using the combinators provided
>by racket/contract, so they must be implemented via the lower level
>make-contract/build-contract-property API. This can be subtle to use
>correctly, and it makes it unlikely that contract violations made by the
>contract itself will be blamed properly according to the “indy” blame
>semantics used by ->i.
>
> All this is to say that the current contract system clearly discourages
> this use of contracts, which suggests this would be considered an abuse of
> the contract system. Nevertheless, the coupling between validating values
> and converting them to a normal form is so enormously tight that allowing
> them to be specified together remains incredibly compelling. I therefore
> have two questions:
>
>1.
>
>Has this notion of “canonicalizing” contracts been discussed before,
>whether in informal discussions or in literature?
>2.
>
>Is there any existing work that explores what adding such contracts to
>a Racket-style, higher-order contract system in a principled fashion might
>look like?
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Alexis
>
> --
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> 
> .
>

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Re: [racket-users] Re: Typing lag with DrRacket on Linux

[evdubs]

I can confirm that using a non-integer PLT_DISPLAY_BACKING_SCALE value for 
DrRacket 8.4 does not cause performance issues seen in earlier releases. 
Anyone coming to this thread with Linux DrRacket performance issues should 
make sure they are on version 8.4 or higher.

Evan

On Thursday, October 28, 2021 at 9:32:10 AM UTC-10 evdubs wrote:

> Resurrecting this old thread.
>
> This issue should now be resolved with this commit: 
> https://github.com/racket/gui/commit/20e589c091998b0121505e25c7ff2f95e8116dcb
>
> No need to use PLT_DISPLAY_BACKING_SCALE with this fix.
>
> Evan
>
> On Thursday, May 28, 2020 at 4:18:44 AM UTC-10 evdubs wrote:
>
>> I suppose that may be helpful, but this performance issue extends to any 
>> other Racket GUI application on Linux, including the simple editor example 
>> from earlier in this thread. Maybe printing something to a console could 
>> help, but it would be better if there was some fix to improve fractional 
>> scaling performance :)
>>
>> Evan
>>
>> On Thursday, May 28, 2020 at 2:37:49 AM UTC-10, Jens Axel Søgaard wrote:
>>
>>> Slack users confirm the problem when the backing scale is 1.5.
>>>
>>> Should DrRacket give a warning dialog on Linux, when started with a 
>>> non-integer backing scale?
>>>
>>> /Jens Axel
>>>
>>>
>>> Den ons. 13. maj 2020 kl. 05.48 skrev evdubs :
>>>
>> I did some more digging and found locations in racket/draw that control 
 antialiasing. I tried changing them around, and saw no impact on 
 performance.

 However, I eventually stumbled upon the environment variable 
 PLT_DISPLAY_BACKING_SCALE. By using an integer value for this variable, 
 performance is nice and smooth (I tried 1 and 2; trying 1.25 and 1.5 hurt 
 performance). In Ubuntu, I do not have my display set to a fractional 
 scaling value, but I do have "Large Text" enabled. I am unsure if this 
 setting interferes with whatever PLT_DISPLAY_BACKING_SCALE defaults to.

 If you're having typing lag issues on Linux within Dr Racket or other 
 Racket GUI applications, you may want to try PLT_DISPLAY_BACKING_SCALE=1 
 to 
 see if that affects performance.

 Evan

 On Monday, May 11, 2020 at 2:05:06 PM UTC-10, evdubs wrote:
>
> I think what I have seen previously with setting the canvas style to 
> 'transparent ultimately is turning off antialiasing in Cairo.
>
> Using the sample text editor from this thread, I ran the following:
>
> $ cairo-trace racket text-editor.rkt
> $ cairo-trace racket text-editor-transparent.rkt
>
> In the non-transparent version, we see these two lines:
>
> 16 0 0 16 0 0 matrix 2 0 0 2 0 0 matrix << /antialias 
> //ANTIALIAS_SUBPIXEL /subpixel-order //SUBPIXEL_ORDER_RGB /hint-style 
> //HINT_STYLE_SLIGHT /hint-metrics //HINT_METRICS_ON >> scaled-font /sf0 
> exch def
> f0 32 0 0 32 0 0 matrix 2 0 0 2 0 0 matrix << /antialias 
> //ANTIALIAS_SUBPIXEL /subpixel-order //SUBPIXEL_ORDER_RGB /hint-style 
> //HINT_STYLE_SLIGHT /hint-metrics //HINT_METRICS_ON >> scaled-font /sf1 
> exch def
>
> These lines look like this in the transparent version:
>
> 16 0 0 16 0 0 matrix 2 0 0 2 0 0 matrix << /hint-metrics 
> //HINT_METRICS_ON >> scaled-font /sf0 exch def
> f0 32 0 0 32 0 0 matrix 2 0 0 2 0 0 matrix << /hint-metrics 
> //HINT_METRICS_ON >> scaled-font /sf1 exch def
>
> I am not really sure how this initialization is happening. Can someone 
> help me poke through the code to see how I might disable antialiasing? 
> Should I try to make changes to gui-lib/mred/private/wx/gtk/gcwin.rkt?
>
> Evan
>
> On Friday, March 29, 2019 at 12:29:11 AM UTC-10, Bryan Lee wrote:
>>
>> I’m facing the same issues, and I came across an interesting 
>> observation. 
>>
>> It seems that DrRacket mimics scrolling behaviour by literally 
>> replacing each line of code with the line above or below, and uses a 
>> really 
>> inefficient method of tracking which lines should go where, thereby 
>> limiting how fast you can “scroll”. 
>>
>> I realised that resizing the window horizontally does nothing to 
>> improve performance, but shrinking the window height significantly 
>> improved 
>> performance, even if the canvas area is adjusted to remain the same. 
>>
>> In addition to some function definitions in unit.rkt describing the 
>> transposing of lines, that leads me to my conclusion. 
>>
>> Thoughts? 
>>
>>
>>
>> On Friday, 2 November 2018 10:46:29 UTC+8, evdubs  wrote: 
>> > Resurrecting an old thread. 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > I recently tried to see what would happen if I changed the 
>> interactions-canvas% and definitions-canvas% to be the following: 
>> > 
>> > 
>> >   (define interactions-canvas% 
>> > (class editor-canvas% 
>> >   (init [style 

Re: [racket-users] Vectors, boxes and places

[Tim Jervis]

Many thanks John, I’ve just posted it there.

Tim

> On 3 Feb 2022, at 23:17, 'John Clements' via Racket Users 
>  wrote:
> 
> Sounds like a good question to me. Perhaps it would make sense to post it to 
> the discourse group, instead? I’m happy to ask on your behalf if you don’t 
> feel like it.
> 
> https://racket.discourse.group/
> 
> John
> 
>> On Feb 3, 2022, at 5:58 AM, Tim Jervis  wrote:
>> 
>> Dear Racketeers,
>> 
>> Is there something I have misunderstood about vectors, boxes and places 
>> which might explain why immutable boxes are not place-message-allowed, but 
>> immutable vectors are?
>> 
>>> (place-message-allowed? (box-immutable #f))
>> #f
>>> (place-message-allowed? (vector-immutable #f))
>> #t
>>> 
>> 
>> c.f.
>> 
>> https://docs.racket-lang.org/reference/boxes.html 
>> 
>> A box is like a single-element vector, normally used as minimal mutable 
>> storage.
>> 
>> Best,
>> 
>> Tim
>> 
>> -- 
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>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/878F140E-3160-4B88-BB8B-4C04B1668BCB%40timjervis.com.
> 
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Re: [racket-users] Vectors, boxes and places

['John Clements' via Racket Users]

Sounds like a good question to me. Perhaps it would make sense to post it to 
the discourse group, instead? I’m happy to ask on your behalf if you don’t feel 
like it.

https://racket.discourse.group/

John

> On Feb 3, 2022, at 5:58 AM, Tim Jervis  wrote:
> 
> Dear Racketeers,
> 
> Is there something I have misunderstood about vectors, boxes and places which 
> might explain why immutable boxes are not place-message-allowed, but 
> immutable vectors are?
> 
> > (place-message-allowed? (box-immutable #f))
> #f
> > (place-message-allowed? (vector-immutable #f))
> #t
> > 
> 
> c.f.
> 
> https://docs.racket-lang.org/reference/boxes.html 
> 
> A box is like a single-element vector, normally used as minimal mutable 
> storage.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Tim
> 
> -- 
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Re: [racket-users] Apple Silicon build errors

[Sorawee Porncharoenwase]

That sounds right to me.

On Mon, Jan 17, 2022 at 9:27 AM Nathaniel W Griswold  wrote:

> Ah, ok, my build finished and everything seems to be working well. The
> binary is signed, too. It seems to have used codesign.rkt along the way
> there, so i think i actually needed both Matthew's recommended commit and
> yours (codesign.rkt imports compiler/private/mach-o). Does that sound
> right, to use both patches? I was gonna try to get nixpkgs building 8.3.
>
> Thanks
>
> Nate
>
> > On Jan 17, 2022, at 10:56 AM, Sorawee Porncharoenwase <
> sorawee.pw...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > That particular issue is fixed by
> https://github.com/racket/racket/commit/3a8a7102abff334ee4e054c3597bebba32bda307,
> if I remember correctly.
> >
> > On Mon, Jan 17, 2022 at 8:50 AM Nathaniel W Griswold  wrote:
> > Hm, Ok. The cherry-pick of 0a8b68b286 does in fact apply cleanly to the
> v8.3 tag.
> >
> > I am still having the same issue, though, even after a full clean. Right
> now, I only have command-line tools (latest). I am downloading the full
> Xcode again but it's gonna be a little bit before i can test that, the
> download is kinda big.
> >
> > Nate
> >
> > > On Jan 17, 2022, at 10:24 AM, Matthew Flatt 
> wrote:
> > >
> > > This is a problem with v8.3 and the latest Apple tools. It's fixed for
> > > the upcoming v8.4 release (so, in the main branch and in the current
> > > snapshot source distributions).
> > >
> > > In case you want a minimal patch, commit 0a8b68b286 is the repair and
> > > might apply cleanly to v8.3.
> >
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "Racket Users" group.
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> an email to racket-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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> .
> >
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> .
>
>

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Re: [racket-users] Apple Silicon build errors

[Nathaniel W Griswold]

Ah, ok, my build finished and everything seems to be working well. The binary 
is signed, too. It seems to have used codesign.rkt along the way there, so i 
think i actually needed both Matthew's recommended commit and yours 
(codesign.rkt imports compiler/private/mach-o). Does that sound right, to use 
both patches? I was gonna try to get nixpkgs building 8.3.

Thanks

Nate

> On Jan 17, 2022, at 10:56 AM, Sorawee Porncharoenwase 
>  wrote:
> 
> That particular issue is fixed by 
> https://github.com/racket/racket/commit/3a8a7102abff334ee4e054c3597bebba32bda307,
>  if I remember correctly.
> 
> On Mon, Jan 17, 2022 at 8:50 AM Nathaniel W Griswold  wrote:
> Hm, Ok. The cherry-pick of 0a8b68b286 does in fact apply cleanly to the v8.3 
> tag.
> 
> I am still having the same issue, though, even after a full clean. Right now, 
> I only have command-line tools (latest). I am downloading the full Xcode 
> again but it's gonna be a little bit before i can test that, the download is 
> kinda big.
> 
> Nate
> 
> > On Jan 17, 2022, at 10:24 AM, Matthew Flatt  wrote:
> > 
> > This is a problem with v8.3 and the latest Apple tools. It's fixed for
> > the upcoming v8.4 release (so, in the main branch and in the current
> > snapshot source distributions).
> > 
> > In case you want a minimal patch, commit 0a8b68b286 is the repair and
> > might apply cleanly to v8.3.
> 
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Re: [racket-users] Apple Silicon build errors

[Sorawee Porncharoenwase]

That particular issue is fixed by
https://github.com/racket/racket/commit/3a8a7102abff334ee4e054c3597bebba32bda307,
if I remember correctly.

On Mon, Jan 17, 2022 at 8:50 AM Nathaniel W Griswold  wrote:

> Hm, Ok. The cherry-pick of 0a8b68b286 does in fact apply cleanly to the
> v8.3 tag.
>
> I am still having the same issue, though, even after a full clean. Right
> now, I only have command-line tools (latest). I am downloading the full
> Xcode again but it's gonna be a little bit before i can test that, the
> download is kinda big.
>
> Nate
>
> > On Jan 17, 2022, at 10:24 AM, Matthew Flatt  wrote:
> >
> > This is a problem with v8.3 and the latest Apple tools. It's fixed for
> > the upcoming v8.4 release (so, in the main branch and in the current
> > snapshot source distributions).
> >
> > In case you want a minimal patch, commit 0a8b68b286 is the repair and
> > might apply cleanly to v8.3.
>
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> .
>

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Re: [racket-users] Apple Silicon build errors

[Nathaniel W Griswold]

Hm, Ok. The cherry-pick of 0a8b68b286 does in fact apply cleanly to the v8.3 
tag.

I am still having the same issue, though, even after a full clean. Right now, I 
only have command-line tools (latest). I am downloading the full Xcode again 
but it's gonna be a little bit before i can test that, the download is kinda 
big.

Nate

> On Jan 17, 2022, at 10:24 AM, Matthew Flatt  wrote:
> 
> This is a problem with v8.3 and the latest Apple tools. It's fixed for
> the upcoming v8.4 release (so, in the main branch and in the current
> snapshot source distributions).
> 
> In case you want a minimal patch, commit 0a8b68b286 is the repair and
> might apply cleanly to v8.3.

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Re: [racket-users] Apple Silicon build errors

[Matthew Flatt]

This is a problem with v8.3 and the latest Apple tools. It's fixed for
the upcoming v8.4 release (so, in the main branch and in the current
snapshot source distributions).

In case you want a minimal patch, commit 0a8b68b286 is the repair and
might apply cleanly to v8.3.

At Mon, 17 Jan 2022 10:16:53 -0600, Nathaniel W Griswold wrote:
> Has anyone else run into this error (see below) when building natively on 
> Apple silicon? I am getting it both on a cleaned checkout with `make 
> unix-style` with prefix at root, as well as when doing a configure with 
> prefix 
> using the source distribution found at 
> https://mirror.racket-lang.org/installers/8.3/racket-8.3-src.tgz
> 
> Monterey 12.1
> 
> Nate
> 
> ---
> make mac-embed-boot-fw EMBED_SRC=raw_racketcs EMBED_DEST=racketcs
> make[5]: Entering directory 
> '/Users/griswold/project/racket/racket/src/build/cs/c'
> rm -f racketcs
> cp raw_racketcs racketcs
> codesign --remove-signature racketcs
> make[5]: Leaving directory 
> '/Users/griswold/project/racket/racket/src/build/cs/c'
> /usr/bin/install_name_tool -change "Racket.framework/Versions/8.3_CS/Racket" 
> "@executable_path/Racket.framework/Versions/8.3_CS/Racket" racketcs
> /Applications/Xcode.app/Contents/Developer/Toolchains/XcodeDefault.xctoolchain/
> usr/bin/install_name_tool: fatal error: file not in an order that can be 
> processed (link edit information does not fill the __LINKEDIT segment): 
> racketcs
> ---
> 
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> 1445%40nan.sh.

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Re: [racket-users] Apple Silicon build errors

[J. Ryan Stinnett]

What version of Xcode do you have? Assuming it's the latest, have you
opened it at least once to go through the first run setup of CLI tools?

- Ryan

On Mon, 17 Jan 2022 at 16:16, Nathaniel W Griswold  wrote:

> Has anyone else run into this error (see below) when building natively on
> Apple silicon? I am getting it both on a cleaned checkout with `make
> unix-style` with prefix at root, as well as when doing a configure with
> prefix using the source distribution found at
> https://mirror.racket-lang.org/installers/8.3/racket-8.3-src.tgz
>
> Monterey 12.1
>
> Nate
>
> ---
> make mac-embed-boot-fw EMBED_SRC=raw_racketcs EMBED_DEST=racketcs
> make[5]: Entering directory
> '/Users/griswold/project/racket/racket/src/build/cs/c'
> rm -f racketcs
> cp raw_racketcs racketcs
> codesign --remove-signature racketcs
> make[5]: Leaving directory
> '/Users/griswold/project/racket/racket/src/build/cs/c'
> /usr/bin/install_name_tool -change
> "Racket.framework/Versions/8.3_CS/Racket"
> "@executable_path/Racket.framework/Versions/8.3_CS/Racket" racketcs
> /Applications/Xcode.app/Contents/Developer/Toolchains/XcodeDefault.xctoolchain/usr/bin/install_name_tool:
> fatal error: file not in an order that can be processed (link edit
> information does not fill the __LINKEDIT segment): racketcs
> ---
>
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Re: [racket-users] Core Team: I need you decide what I should do about the spammer.

[Matthias Felleisen]

Thank you Sage for taking on this task. — Matthias


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Re: [racket-users] Core Team: I need you decide what I should do about the spammer.

[Robby Findler]

Great! I think I get moderation messages too, and I'm happy to help out in
letting people in.

Robby

On Wed, Jan 12, 2022 at 12:25 PM Sage Gerard  wrote:

> Both racket-users and racket-dev have just now been changed to "Anyone
> can ask."
>
> On 1/12/22 1:17 PM, Sam Tobin-Hochstadt wrote:
> > On Wed, Jan 12, 2022 at 1:14 PM Sage Gerard  wrote:
> >> Yes. I assumed was that (b) was not true, since I thought volunteers
> >> were hard to come by for most community tasks. "Ask only" makes more
> >> sense if someone can be found and made available at any time.
> >>
> >> All: I normally wait for a go-ahead from a quorum before applying
> >> changes like this. If I don't need to wait, then please tell me.
> > I think if you're good with this approach, you should move forward with
> it.
> >
> > Sam
> >
> >> Sam: You mentioned someone got a 404 from an invite link. 404s sometimes
> >> disguise permission issues, so I suspect that switching to "ask to join"
> >> will make that problem go away too.
> >>
> >> On 1/12/22 1:00 PM, Sam Tobin-Hochstadt wrote:
> >>
> >>> Here's my suggestion: we switch to "ask to join" on Google Groups. I
> >>> think that will notify all the moderators, and thus (a) more people
> >>> can potentially respond (eg, I think I currently get those emails too)
> >>> and (b) if someone can no longer take on this responsibility, it's
> >>> easy to have someone else step up. The alternative where we specify a
> >>> specific email requires potentially changing that email address when
> >>> the responsibility changes.
> >>>
> >>> Does that seem like a reasonable approach?
> >>>
> >>> Sam
> >>>
> >>> On Tue, Jan 11, 2022 at 2:30 PM Sage Gerard 
> wrote:
>  No no, that was helpful, thank you. We do need to figure this part
> out.
> 
>  On 1/11/22 2:22 PM, Robby Findler wrote:
> 
>  Sorry, I probably shouldn't have jumped in here.  I'm happy with
> whatever you folks decide is best!
> 
>  Robby
> 
> 
>  On Tue, Jan 11, 2022 at 1:09 PM Sage Gerard 
> wrote:
> > Makes sense.
> >
> > I'll repeat one key difference in the context of Google Groups
> >
> > Ask to join
> >
> > Racket volunteer must be available for vetting requests, on
> receiving them. Member starts process in Google Groups
> >
> > Invite only
> >
> > Racket volunteer may vet first, but must initiate contact with
> member. As Sam said, strangers can't start that process.
> >
> > If you publish an email to request invites, then the process is
> going to be "ask to join" no matter what, so the mailing list configuration
> is relevant for a different reason. Do we want members to start the process
> in Google Groups, or by sending an email to a fixed address?
> >
> > On 1/11/22 1:51 PM, Robby Findler wrote:
> >
> > Probably people find out about the mailing list by the website,
> right? We could post an email address or two there where asks should go?
> >
> > Robby
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Jan 11, 2022 at 12:41 PM Sam Tobin-Hochstadt <
> sa...@indiana.edu> wrote:
> >> One thing to note here: it's now not possible to _request_ to join
> the
> >> list. If someone wants to join the list, they have to know someone
> who
> >> is already a member and ask them to join.
> >>
> >> It looks like another option is "Anyone on the web can ask" to join.
> >> It's not immediately clear who gets the emails when people ask, but
> >> this seems like it might be a good intermediate position.
> >>
> >> Sam
> >>
> >> On Sun, Dec 19, 2021 at 12:32 PM Sage Gerard 
> wrote:
> >>> Alright, thanks to all of you for the quick replies. As of this
> writing, the list has been reconfigured to create an explicit perimeter
> between the non-members and members. The public can no longer let
> themselves in.
> >>>
> >>> Not totally out of the woods yet.
> >>>
> >>> Someone please confirm if you can invite others using Members page
> -> "Add Member". If not, then please follow up with me.
> >>> This model can be compromised by someone going rogue and inviting
> a bunch of spammers. I'm expecting that our communal trust is high enough
> to make this unlikely.
> >>>
> >>> Considering the risk profile seems less scary, disregard request
> to delete my emails. :)
> >>>
> >>> On 12/18/21 3:02 PM, Matthias Felleisen wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> +2! And many thanks. (I was personally spared this spam until very
> recently. No clue why)
> >>>
> >>> — Matthias
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Dec 18, 2021, at 2:55 PM, Robby Findler <
> ro...@cs.northwestern.edu> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> +1! Thank you.
> >>>
> >>> Robby
> >>>
> >>> On Sat, Dec 18, 2021 at 1:43 PM Matthew Flatt 
> wrote:
>  The "members" option sounds right to me. Thanks for tracking down
> a way
>  to improve the situation!
> 
>  At 

Re: [racket-users] Core Team: I need you decide what I should do about the spammer.

[Sage Gerard]

Both racket-users and racket-dev have just now been changed to "Anyone
can ask."

On 1/12/22 1:17 PM, Sam Tobin-Hochstadt wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 12, 2022 at 1:14 PM Sage Gerard  wrote:
>> Yes. I assumed was that (b) was not true, since I thought volunteers
>> were hard to come by for most community tasks. "Ask only" makes more
>> sense if someone can be found and made available at any time.
>>
>> All: I normally wait for a go-ahead from a quorum before applying
>> changes like this. If I don't need to wait, then please tell me.
> I think if you're good with this approach, you should move forward with it.
>
> Sam
>
>> Sam: You mentioned someone got a 404 from an invite link. 404s sometimes
>> disguise permission issues, so I suspect that switching to "ask to join"
>> will make that problem go away too.
>>
>> On 1/12/22 1:00 PM, Sam Tobin-Hochstadt wrote:
>>
>>> Here's my suggestion: we switch to "ask to join" on Google Groups. I
>>> think that will notify all the moderators, and thus (a) more people
>>> can potentially respond (eg, I think I currently get those emails too)
>>> and (b) if someone can no longer take on this responsibility, it's
>>> easy to have someone else step up. The alternative where we specify a
>>> specific email requires potentially changing that email address when
>>> the responsibility changes.
>>>
>>> Does that seem like a reasonable approach?
>>>
>>> Sam
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jan 11, 2022 at 2:30 PM Sage Gerard  wrote:
 No no, that was helpful, thank you. We do need to figure this part out.

 On 1/11/22 2:22 PM, Robby Findler wrote:

 Sorry, I probably shouldn't have jumped in here.  I'm happy with whatever 
 you folks decide is best!

 Robby


 On Tue, Jan 11, 2022 at 1:09 PM Sage Gerard  wrote:
> Makes sense.
>
> I'll repeat one key difference in the context of Google Groups
>
> Ask to join
>
> Racket volunteer must be available for vetting requests, on receiving 
> them. Member starts process in Google Groups
>
> Invite only
>
> Racket volunteer may vet first, but must initiate contact with member. As 
> Sam said, strangers can't start that process.
>
> If you publish an email to request invites, then the process is going to 
> be "ask to join" no matter what, so the mailing list configuration is 
> relevant for a different reason. Do we want members to start the process 
> in Google Groups, or by sending an email to a fixed address?
>
> On 1/11/22 1:51 PM, Robby Findler wrote:
>
> Probably people find out about the mailing list by the website, right? We 
> could post an email address or two there where asks should go?
>
> Robby
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 11, 2022 at 12:41 PM Sam Tobin-Hochstadt  
> wrote:
>> One thing to note here: it's now not possible to _request_ to join the
>> list. If someone wants to join the list, they have to know someone who
>> is already a member and ask them to join.
>>
>> It looks like another option is "Anyone on the web can ask" to join.
>> It's not immediately clear who gets the emails when people ask, but
>> this seems like it might be a good intermediate position.
>>
>> Sam
>>
>> On Sun, Dec 19, 2021 at 12:32 PM Sage Gerard  wrote:
>>> Alright, thanks to all of you for the quick replies. As of this 
>>> writing, the list has been reconfigured to create an explicit perimeter 
>>> between the non-members and members. The public can no longer let 
>>> themselves in.
>>>
>>> Not totally out of the woods yet.
>>>
>>> Someone please confirm if you can invite others using Members page -> 
>>> "Add Member". If not, then please follow up with me.
>>> This model can be compromised by someone going rogue and inviting a 
>>> bunch of spammers. I'm expecting that our communal trust is high enough 
>>> to make this unlikely.
>>>
>>> Considering the risk profile seems less scary, disregard request to 
>>> delete my emails. :)
>>>
>>> On 12/18/21 3:02 PM, Matthias Felleisen wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> +2! And many thanks. (I was personally spared this spam until very 
>>> recently. No clue why)
>>>
>>> — Matthias
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Dec 18, 2021, at 2:55 PM, Robby Findler  
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> +1! Thank you.
>>>
>>> Robby
>>>
>>> On Sat, Dec 18, 2021 at 1:43 PM Matthew Flatt  
>>> wrote:
 The "members" option sounds right to me. Thanks for tracking down a way
 to improve the situation!

 At Sat, 18 Dec 2021 19:35:23 +, Sage Gerard wrote:
> Core team,
>
> Sam asked me to issue bans for a troublesome spammer. I've done so, 
> even
> just today. I understand I need quorum for larger decisions. This is 
> why
> I have not yet reconfigured the list to 

Re: [racket-users] Core Team: I need you decide what I should do about the spammer.

[Sam Tobin-Hochstadt]

On Wed, Jan 12, 2022 at 1:14 PM Sage Gerard  wrote:
>
> Yes. I assumed was that (b) was not true, since I thought volunteers
> were hard to come by for most community tasks. "Ask only" makes more
> sense if someone can be found and made available at any time.
>
> All: I normally wait for a go-ahead from a quorum before applying
> changes like this. If I don't need to wait, then please tell me.

I think if you're good with this approach, you should move forward with it.

Sam

> Sam: You mentioned someone got a 404 from an invite link. 404s sometimes
> disguise permission issues, so I suspect that switching to "ask to join"
> will make that problem go away too.
>
> On 1/12/22 1:00 PM, Sam Tobin-Hochstadt wrote:
>
> > Here's my suggestion: we switch to "ask to join" on Google Groups. I
> > think that will notify all the moderators, and thus (a) more people
> > can potentially respond (eg, I think I currently get those emails too)
> > and (b) if someone can no longer take on this responsibility, it's
> > easy to have someone else step up. The alternative where we specify a
> > specific email requires potentially changing that email address when
> > the responsibility changes.
> >
> > Does that seem like a reasonable approach?
> >
> > Sam
> >
> > On Tue, Jan 11, 2022 at 2:30 PM Sage Gerard  wrote:
> >> No no, that was helpful, thank you. We do need to figure this part out.
> >>
> >> On 1/11/22 2:22 PM, Robby Findler wrote:
> >>
> >> Sorry, I probably shouldn't have jumped in here.  I'm happy with whatever 
> >> you folks decide is best!
> >>
> >> Robby
> >>
> >>
> >> On Tue, Jan 11, 2022 at 1:09 PM Sage Gerard  wrote:
> >>> Makes sense.
> >>>
> >>> I'll repeat one key difference in the context of Google Groups
> >>>
> >>> Ask to join
> >>>
> >>> Racket volunteer must be available for vetting requests, on receiving 
> >>> them. Member starts process in Google Groups
> >>>
> >>> Invite only
> >>>
> >>> Racket volunteer may vet first, but must initiate contact with member. As 
> >>> Sam said, strangers can't start that process.
> >>>
> >>> If you publish an email to request invites, then the process is going to 
> >>> be "ask to join" no matter what, so the mailing list configuration is 
> >>> relevant for a different reason. Do we want members to start the process 
> >>> in Google Groups, or by sending an email to a fixed address?
> >>>
> >>> On 1/11/22 1:51 PM, Robby Findler wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Probably people find out about the mailing list by the website, right? We 
> >>> could post an email address or two there where asks should go?
> >>>
> >>> Robby
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Tue, Jan 11, 2022 at 12:41 PM Sam Tobin-Hochstadt  
> >>> wrote:
>  One thing to note here: it's now not possible to _request_ to join the
>  list. If someone wants to join the list, they have to know someone who
>  is already a member and ask them to join.
> 
>  It looks like another option is "Anyone on the web can ask" to join.
>  It's not immediately clear who gets the emails when people ask, but
>  this seems like it might be a good intermediate position.
> 
>  Sam
> 
>  On Sun, Dec 19, 2021 at 12:32 PM Sage Gerard  wrote:
> > Alright, thanks to all of you for the quick replies. As of this 
> > writing, the list has been reconfigured to create an explicit perimeter 
> > between the non-members and members. The public can no longer let 
> > themselves in.
> >
> > Not totally out of the woods yet.
> >
> > Someone please confirm if you can invite others using Members page -> 
> > "Add Member". If not, then please follow up with me.
> > This model can be compromised by someone going rogue and inviting a 
> > bunch of spammers. I'm expecting that our communal trust is high enough 
> > to make this unlikely.
> >
> > Considering the risk profile seems less scary, disregard request to 
> > delete my emails. :)
> >
> > On 12/18/21 3:02 PM, Matthias Felleisen wrote:
> >
> >
> > +2! And many thanks. (I was personally spared this spam until very 
> > recently. No clue why)
> >
> > — Matthias
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Dec 18, 2021, at 2:55 PM, Robby Findler  
> > wrote:
> >
> > +1! Thank you.
> >
> > Robby
> >
> > On Sat, Dec 18, 2021 at 1:43 PM Matthew Flatt  
> > wrote:
> >> The "members" option sounds right to me. Thanks for tracking down a way
> >> to improve the situation!
> >>
> >> At Sat, 18 Dec 2021 19:35:23 +, Sage Gerard wrote:
> >>> Core team,
> >>>
> >>> Sam asked me to issue bans for a troublesome spammer. I've done so, 
> >>> even
> >>> just today. I understand I need quorum for larger decisions. This is 
> >>> why
> >>> I have not yet reconfigured the list to permanently stop the spammer.
> >>> After researching the problem further, I need your urgent attention.
> >>>
> >>> I found that the spam 

Re: [racket-users] Core Team: I need you decide what I should do about the spammer.

[Sage Gerard]

Yes. I assumed was that (b) was not true, since I thought volunteers
were hard to come by for most community tasks. "Ask only" makes more
sense if someone can be found and made available at any time.

All: I normally wait for a go-ahead from a quorum before applying
changes like this. If I don't need to wait, then please tell me.

Sam: You mentioned someone got a 404 from an invite link. 404s sometimes
disguise permission issues, so I suspect that switching to "ask to join"
will make that problem go away too.

On 1/12/22 1:00 PM, Sam Tobin-Hochstadt wrote:

> Here's my suggestion: we switch to "ask to join" on Google Groups. I
> think that will notify all the moderators, and thus (a) more people
> can potentially respond (eg, I think I currently get those emails too)
> and (b) if someone can no longer take on this responsibility, it's
> easy to have someone else step up. The alternative where we specify a
> specific email requires potentially changing that email address when
> the responsibility changes.
>
> Does that seem like a reasonable approach?
>
> Sam
>
> On Tue, Jan 11, 2022 at 2:30 PM Sage Gerard  wrote:
>> No no, that was helpful, thank you. We do need to figure this part out.
>>
>> On 1/11/22 2:22 PM, Robby Findler wrote:
>>
>> Sorry, I probably shouldn't have jumped in here.  I'm happy with whatever 
>> you folks decide is best!
>>
>> Robby
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 11, 2022 at 1:09 PM Sage Gerard  wrote:
>>> Makes sense.
>>>
>>> I'll repeat one key difference in the context of Google Groups
>>>
>>> Ask to join
>>>
>>> Racket volunteer must be available for vetting requests, on receiving them. 
>>> Member starts process in Google Groups
>>>
>>> Invite only
>>>
>>> Racket volunteer may vet first, but must initiate contact with member. As 
>>> Sam said, strangers can't start that process.
>>>
>>> If you publish an email to request invites, then the process is going to be 
>>> "ask to join" no matter what, so the mailing list configuration is relevant 
>>> for a different reason. Do we want members to start the process in Google 
>>> Groups, or by sending an email to a fixed address?
>>>
>>> On 1/11/22 1:51 PM, Robby Findler wrote:
>>>
>>> Probably people find out about the mailing list by the website, right? We 
>>> could post an email address or two there where asks should go?
>>>
>>> Robby
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jan 11, 2022 at 12:41 PM Sam Tobin-Hochstadt  
>>> wrote:
 One thing to note here: it's now not possible to _request_ to join the
 list. If someone wants to join the list, they have to know someone who
 is already a member and ask them to join.

 It looks like another option is "Anyone on the web can ask" to join.
 It's not immediately clear who gets the emails when people ask, but
 this seems like it might be a good intermediate position.

 Sam

 On Sun, Dec 19, 2021 at 12:32 PM Sage Gerard  wrote:
> Alright, thanks to all of you for the quick replies. As of this writing, 
> the list has been reconfigured to create an explicit perimeter between 
> the non-members and members. The public can no longer let themselves in.
>
> Not totally out of the woods yet.
>
> Someone please confirm if you can invite others using Members page -> 
> "Add Member". If not, then please follow up with me.
> This model can be compromised by someone going rogue and inviting a bunch 
> of spammers. I'm expecting that our communal trust is high enough to make 
> this unlikely.
>
> Considering the risk profile seems less scary, disregard request to 
> delete my emails. :)
>
> On 12/18/21 3:02 PM, Matthias Felleisen wrote:
>
>
> +2! And many thanks. (I was personally spared this spam until very 
> recently. No clue why)
>
> — Matthias
>
>
>
>
> On Dec 18, 2021, at 2:55 PM, Robby Findler  
> wrote:
>
> +1! Thank you.
>
> Robby
>
> On Sat, Dec 18, 2021 at 1:43 PM Matthew Flatt  wrote:
>> The "members" option sounds right to me. Thanks for tracking down a way
>> to improve the situation!
>>
>> At Sat, 18 Dec 2021 19:35:23 +, Sage Gerard wrote:
>>> Core team,
>>>
>>> Sam asked me to issue bans for a troublesome spammer. I've done so, even
>>> just today. I understand I need quorum for larger decisions. This is why
>>> I have not yet reconfigured the list to permanently stop the spammer.
>>> After researching the problem further, I need your urgent attention.
>>>
>>> I found that the spam messages sometimes link to other Google group
>>> posts affected by the spammer. A recent trail leads to a
>>> comp.lang.python Google message in 2017. I suspect that email addresses
>>> are scraped in unmoderated lists that freely hand out membership. After
>>> checking the list settings, I found that this is one of those lists. I
>>> hypothesize that our email addresses are being scraped and

Re: [racket-users] Core Team: I need you decide what I should do about the spammer.

[Sam Tobin-Hochstadt]

Here's my suggestion: we switch to "ask to join" on Google Groups. I
think that will notify all the moderators, and thus (a) more people
can potentially respond (eg, I think I currently get those emails too)
and (b) if someone can no longer take on this responsibility, it's
easy to have someone else step up. The alternative where we specify a
specific email requires potentially changing that email address when
the responsibility changes.

Does that seem like a reasonable approach?

Sam

On Tue, Jan 11, 2022 at 2:30 PM Sage Gerard  wrote:
>
> No no, that was helpful, thank you. We do need to figure this part out.
>
> On 1/11/22 2:22 PM, Robby Findler wrote:
>
> Sorry, I probably shouldn't have jumped in here.  I'm happy with whatever you 
> folks decide is best!
>
> Robby
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 11, 2022 at 1:09 PM Sage Gerard  wrote:
>>
>> Makes sense.
>>
>> I'll repeat one key difference in the context of Google Groups
>>
>> Ask to join
>>
>> Racket volunteer must be available for vetting requests, on receiving them. 
>> Member starts process in Google Groups
>>
>> Invite only
>>
>> Racket volunteer may vet first, but must initiate contact with member. As 
>> Sam said, strangers can't start that process.
>>
>> If you publish an email to request invites, then the process is going to be 
>> "ask to join" no matter what, so the mailing list configuration is relevant 
>> for a different reason. Do we want members to start the process in Google 
>> Groups, or by sending an email to a fixed address?
>>
>> On 1/11/22 1:51 PM, Robby Findler wrote:
>>
>> Probably people find out about the mailing list by the website, right? We 
>> could post an email address or two there where asks should go?
>>
>> Robby
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 11, 2022 at 12:41 PM Sam Tobin-Hochstadt  
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> One thing to note here: it's now not possible to _request_ to join the
>>> list. If someone wants to join the list, they have to know someone who
>>> is already a member and ask them to join.
>>>
>>> It looks like another option is "Anyone on the web can ask" to join.
>>> It's not immediately clear who gets the emails when people ask, but
>>> this seems like it might be a good intermediate position.
>>>
>>> Sam
>>>
>>> On Sun, Dec 19, 2021 at 12:32 PM Sage Gerard  wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Alright, thanks to all of you for the quick replies. As of this writing, 
>>> > the list has been reconfigured to create an explicit perimeter between 
>>> > the non-members and members. The public can no longer let themselves in.
>>> >
>>> > Not totally out of the woods yet.
>>> >
>>> > Someone please confirm if you can invite others using Members page -> 
>>> > "Add Member". If not, then please follow up with me.
>>> > This model can be compromised by someone going rogue and inviting a bunch 
>>> > of spammers. I'm expecting that our communal trust is high enough to make 
>>> > this unlikely.
>>> >
>>> > Considering the risk profile seems less scary, disregard request to 
>>> > delete my emails. :)
>>> >
>>> > On 12/18/21 3:02 PM, Matthias Felleisen wrote:
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > +2! And many thanks. (I was personally spared this spam until very 
>>> > recently. No clue why)
>>> >
>>> > — Matthias
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On Dec 18, 2021, at 2:55 PM, Robby Findler  
>>> > wrote:
>>> >
>>> > +1! Thank you.
>>> >
>>> > Robby
>>> >
>>> > On Sat, Dec 18, 2021 at 1:43 PM Matthew Flatt  wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> The "members" option sounds right to me. Thanks for tracking down a way
>>> >> to improve the situation!
>>> >>
>>> >> At Sat, 18 Dec 2021 19:35:23 +, Sage Gerard wrote:
>>> >> > Core team,
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Sam asked me to issue bans for a troublesome spammer. I've done so, 
>>> >> > even
>>> >> > just today. I understand I need quorum for larger decisions. This is 
>>> >> > why
>>> >> > I have not yet reconfigured the list to permanently stop the spammer.
>>> >> > After researching the problem further, I need your urgent attention.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > I found that the spam messages sometimes link to other Google group
>>> >> > posts affected by the spammer. A recent trail leads to a
>>> >> > comp.lang.python Google message in 2017. I suspect that email addresses
>>> >> > are scraped in unmoderated lists that freely hand out membership. After
>>> >> > checking the list settings, I found that this is one of those lists. I
>>> >> > hypothesize that our email addresses are being scraped and
>>> >> > cross-referenced for use in other unmoderated lists.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > It's one thing to flatly complain about a spammer on this list, and
>>> >> > another to willingly maintain a transmission vector. We need to stop
>>> >> > automatically handing out group membership with our current settings. 
>>> >> > We
>>> >> > can have  issue list memberships. I need you all to fill in the
>>> >> > blank with "moderators" or "members." I'll translate the settings
>>> >> > accordingly.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Given the holidays, I respect your time. Please reciprocate with 

Re: [racket-users] Core Team: I need you decide what I should do about the spammer.

[Sage Gerard]

No no, that was helpful, thank you. We do need to figure this part out.

On 1/11/22 2:22 PM, Robby Findler wrote:

> Sorry, I probably shouldn't have jumped in here. I'm happy with whatever you 
> folks decide is best!
>
> Robby
>
> On Tue, Jan 11, 2022 at 1:09 PM Sage Gerard  wrote:
>
>> Makes sense.
>>
>> I'll repeat one key difference in the context of Google Groups
>>
>> - Ask to join
>>
>> - Racket volunteer must be available for vetting requests, on receiving 
>> them. Member starts process in Google Groups
>> - Invite only
>>
>> - Racket volunteer may vet first, but must initiate contact with member. As 
>> Sam said, strangers can't start that process.
>>
>> If you publish an email to request invites, then the process is going to be 
>> "ask to join" no matter what, so the mailing list configuration is relevant 
>> for a different reason. Do we want members to start the process in Google 
>> Groups, or by sending an email to a fixed address?
>>
>> On 1/11/22 1:51 PM, Robby Findler wrote:
>>
>>> Probably people find out about the mailing list by the website, right? We 
>>> could post an email address or two there where asks should go?
>>>
>>> Robby
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jan 11, 2022 at 12:41 PM Sam Tobin-Hochstadt  
>>> wrote:
>>>
 One thing to note here: it's now not possible to _request_ to join the
 list. If someone wants to join the list, they have to know someone who
 is already a member and ask them to join.

 It looks like another option is "Anyone on the web can ask" to join.
 It's not immediately clear who gets the emails when people ask, but
 this seems like it might be a good intermediate position.

 Sam

 On Sun, Dec 19, 2021 at 12:32 PM Sage Gerard  wrote:
>
> Alright, thanks to all of you for the quick replies. As of this writing, 
> the list has been reconfigured to create an explicit perimeter between 
> the non-members and members. The public can no longer let themselves in.
>
> Not totally out of the woods yet.
>
> Someone please confirm if you can invite others using Members page -> 
> "Add Member". If not, then please follow up with me.
> This model can be compromised by someone going rogue and inviting a bunch 
> of spammers. I'm expecting that our communal trust is high enough to make 
> this unlikely.
>
> Considering the risk profile seems less scary, disregard request to 
> delete my emails. :)
>
> On 12/18/21 3:02 PM, Matthias Felleisen wrote:
>
>
> +2! And many thanks. (I was personally spared this spam until very 
> recently. No clue why)
>
> — Matthias
>
>
>
>
> On Dec 18, 2021, at 2:55 PM, Robby Findler  
> wrote:
>
> +1! Thank you.
>
> Robby
>
> On Sat, Dec 18, 2021 at 1:43 PM Matthew Flatt  wrote:
>>
>> The "members" option sounds right to me. Thanks for tracking down a way
>> to improve the situation!
>>
>> At Sat, 18 Dec 2021 19:35:23 +, Sage Gerard wrote:
>> > Core team,
>> >
>> > Sam asked me to issue bans for a troublesome spammer. I've done so, 
>> > even
>> > just today. I understand I need quorum for larger decisions. This is 
>> > why
>> > I have not yet reconfigured the list to permanently stop the spammer.
>> > After researching the problem further, I need your urgent attention.
>> >
>> > I found that the spam messages sometimes link to other Google group
>> > posts affected by the spammer. A recent trail leads to a
>> > comp.lang.python Google message in 2017. I suspect that email addresses
>> > are scraped in unmoderated lists that freely hand out membership. After
>> > checking the list settings, I found that this is one of those lists. I
>> > hypothesize that our email addresses are being scraped and
>> > cross-referenced for use in other unmoderated lists.
>> >
>> > It's one thing to flatly complain about a spammer on this list, and
>> > another to willingly maintain a transmission vector. We need to stop
>> > automatically handing out group membership with our current settings. 
>> > We
>> > can have  issue list memberships. I need you all to fill in the
>> > blank with "moderators" or "members." I'll translate the settings
>> > accordingly.
>> >
>> > Given the holidays, I respect your time. Please reciprocate with 
>> > respect
>> > for the urgency this problem creates. I will revoke my own mailing list
>> > privileges and membership in three weeks, on January 8th, 2022. I will
>> > leave the settings however they read at the time to prevent
>> > interruption, and request that own messages then be deleted to limit 
>> > the
>> > role my email address plays for the spammer.
>> >
>> > I am not volunteering to moderate membership applications, and I am not
>> > commenting on how to verify the impact of 

Re: [racket-users] Core Team: I need you decide what I should do about the spammer.

[Robby Findler]

Sorry, I probably shouldn't have jumped in here.  I'm happy with whatever
you folks decide is best!

Robby


On Tue, Jan 11, 2022 at 1:09 PM Sage Gerard  wrote:

> Makes sense.
>
> I'll repeat one key difference in the context of Google Groups
>
>- *Ask to join*
>   - Racket volunteer must be available for vetting requests, on
>   receiving them. Member starts process in Google Groups
>   - *Invite only*
>   - Racket volunteer may vet first, but must initiate contact with
>   member. As Sam said, strangers can't start that process.
>
> If you publish an email to request invites, then the process is going to
> be "ask to join" no matter what, so the mailing list configuration is
> relevant for a different reason. Do we want members to start the process in
> Google Groups, or by sending an email to a fixed address?
> On 1/11/22 1:51 PM, Robby Findler wrote:
>
> Probably people find out about the mailing list by the website, right? We
> could post an email address or two there where asks should go?
>
> Robby
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 11, 2022 at 12:41 PM Sam Tobin-Hochstadt 
> wrote:
>
>> One thing to note here: it's now not possible to _request_ to join the
>> list. If someone wants to join the list, they have to know someone who
>> is already a member and ask them to join.
>>
>> It looks like another option is "Anyone on the web can ask" to join.
>> It's not immediately clear who gets the emails when people ask, but
>> this seems like it might be a good intermediate position.
>>
>> Sam
>>
>> On Sun, Dec 19, 2021 at 12:32 PM Sage Gerard  wrote:
>> >
>> > Alright, thanks to all of you for the quick replies. As of this
>> writing, the list has been reconfigured to create an explicit perimeter
>> between the non-members and members. The public can no longer let
>> themselves in.
>> >
>> > Not totally out of the woods yet.
>> >
>> > Someone please confirm if you can invite others using Members page ->
>> "Add Member". If not, then please follow up with me.
>> > This model can be compromised by someone going rogue and inviting a
>> bunch of spammers. I'm expecting that our communal trust is high enough to
>> make this unlikely.
>> >
>> > Considering the risk profile seems less scary, disregard request to
>> delete my emails. :)
>> >
>> > On 12/18/21 3:02 PM, Matthias Felleisen wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > +2! And many thanks. (I was personally spared this spam until very
>> recently. No clue why)
>> >
>> > — Matthias
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Dec 18, 2021, at 2:55 PM, Robby Findler 
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > +1! Thank you.
>> >
>> > Robby
>> >
>> > On Sat, Dec 18, 2021 at 1:43 PM Matthew Flatt 
>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> The "members" option sounds right to me. Thanks for tracking down a way
>> >> to improve the situation!
>> >>
>> >> At Sat, 18 Dec 2021 19:35:23 +, Sage Gerard wrote:
>> >> > Core team,
>> >> >
>> >> > Sam asked me to issue bans for a troublesome spammer. I've done so,
>> even
>> >> > just today. I understand I need quorum for larger decisions. This is
>> why
>> >> > I have not yet reconfigured the list to permanently stop the spammer.
>> >> > After researching the problem further, I need your urgent attention.
>> >> >
>> >> > I found that the spam messages sometimes link to other Google group
>> >> > posts affected by the spammer. A recent trail leads to a
>> >> > comp.lang.python Google message in 2017. I suspect that email
>> addresses
>> >> > are scraped in unmoderated lists that freely hand out membership.
>> After
>> >> > checking the list settings, I found that this is one of those lists.
>> I
>> >> > hypothesize that our email addresses are being scraped and
>> >> > cross-referenced for use in other unmoderated lists.
>> >> >
>> >> > It's one thing to flatly complain about a spammer on this list, and
>> >> > another to willingly maintain a transmission vector. We need to stop
>> >> > automatically handing out group membership with our current
>> settings. We
>> >> > can have  issue list memberships. I need you all to fill in
>> the
>> >> > blank with "moderators" or "members." I'll translate the settings
>> >> > accordingly.
>> >> >
>> >> > Given the holidays, I respect your time. Please reciprocate with
>> respect
>> >> > for the urgency this problem creates. I will revoke my own mailing
>> list
>> >> > privileges and membership in three weeks, on January 8th, 2022. I
>> will
>> >> > leave the settings however they read at the time to prevent
>> >> > interruption, and request that own messages then be deleted to limit
>> the
>> >> > role my email address plays for the spammer.
>> >> >
>> >> > I am not volunteering to moderate membership applications, and I am
>> not
>> >> > commenting on how to verify the impact of possible email leaks.
>> Between
>> >> > the Discourse move and (majority?) perspective towards email, I'm not
>> >> > sure how I would be useful doing either. If my opinion holds weight,
>> I'd
>> >> > advise the answer be "members" so that any available 

Re: [racket-users] Core Team: I need you decide what I should do about the spammer.

[Sage Gerard]

Makes sense.

I'll repeat one key difference in the context of Google Groups

- Ask to join

- Racket volunteer must be available for vetting requests, on receiving them. 
Member starts process in Google Groups
- Invite only

- Racket volunteer may vet first, but must initiate contact with member. As Sam 
said, strangers can't start that process.

If you publish an email to request invites, then the process is going to be 
"ask to join" no matter what, so the mailing list configuration is relevant for 
a different reason. Do we want members to start the process in Google Groups, 
or by sending an email to a fixed address?

On 1/11/22 1:51 PM, Robby Findler wrote:

> Probably people find out about the mailing list by the website, right? We 
> could post an email address or two there where asks should go?
>
> Robby
>
> On Tue, Jan 11, 2022 at 12:41 PM Sam Tobin-Hochstadt  
> wrote:
>
>> One thing to note here: it's now not possible to _request_ to join the
>> list. If someone wants to join the list, they have to know someone who
>> is already a member and ask them to join.
>>
>> It looks like another option is "Anyone on the web can ask" to join.
>> It's not immediately clear who gets the emails when people ask, but
>> this seems like it might be a good intermediate position.
>>
>> Sam
>>
>> On Sun, Dec 19, 2021 at 12:32 PM Sage Gerard  wrote:
>>>
>>> Alright, thanks to all of you for the quick replies. As of this writing, 
>>> the list has been reconfigured to create an explicit perimeter between the 
>>> non-members and members. The public can no longer let themselves in.
>>>
>>> Not totally out of the woods yet.
>>>
>>> Someone please confirm if you can invite others using Members page -> "Add 
>>> Member". If not, then please follow up with me.
>>> This model can be compromised by someone going rogue and inviting a bunch 
>>> of spammers. I'm expecting that our communal trust is high enough to make 
>>> this unlikely.
>>>
>>> Considering the risk profile seems less scary, disregard request to delete 
>>> my emails. :)
>>>
>>> On 12/18/21 3:02 PM, Matthias Felleisen wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> +2! And many thanks. (I was personally spared this spam until very 
>>> recently. No clue why)
>>>
>>> — Matthias
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Dec 18, 2021, at 2:55 PM, Robby Findler  
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> +1! Thank you.
>>>
>>> Robby
>>>
>>> On Sat, Dec 18, 2021 at 1:43 PM Matthew Flatt  wrote:

 The "members" option sounds right to me. Thanks for tracking down a way
 to improve the situation!

 At Sat, 18 Dec 2021 19:35:23 +, Sage Gerard wrote:
 > Core team,
 >
 > Sam asked me to issue bans for a troublesome spammer. I've done so, even
 > just today. I understand I need quorum for larger decisions. This is why
 > I have not yet reconfigured the list to permanently stop the spammer.
 > After researching the problem further, I need your urgent attention.
 >
 > I found that the spam messages sometimes link to other Google group
 > posts affected by the spammer. A recent trail leads to a
 > comp.lang.python Google message in 2017. I suspect that email addresses
 > are scraped in unmoderated lists that freely hand out membership. After
 > checking the list settings, I found that this is one of those lists. I
 > hypothesize that our email addresses are being scraped and
 > cross-referenced for use in other unmoderated lists.
 >
 > It's one thing to flatly complain about a spammer on this list, and
 > another to willingly maintain a transmission vector. We need to stop
 > automatically handing out group membership with our current settings. We
 > can have  issue list memberships. I need you all to fill in the
 > blank with "moderators" or "members." I'll translate the settings
 > accordingly.
 >
 > Given the holidays, I respect your time. Please reciprocate with respect
 > for the urgency this problem creates. I will revoke my own mailing list
 > privileges and membership in three weeks, on January 8th, 2022. I will
 > leave the settings however they read at the time to prevent
 > interruption, and request that own messages then be deleted to limit the
 > role my email address plays for the spammer.
 >
 > I am not volunteering to moderate membership applications, and I am not
 > commenting on how to verify the impact of possible email leaks. Between
 > the Discourse move and (majority?) perspective towards email, I'm not
 > sure how I would be useful doing either. If my opinion holds weight, I'd
 > advise the answer be "members" so that any available moderators can
 > focus on rule breakers while the community grows at a self-directed 
 > speed.
 >
 > Let me know, and thank you.
 >
 >
 >
 > --
 > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
 > "Racket Users" group.
 > To unsubscribe from this group 

Re: [racket-users] Core Team: I need you decide what I should do about the spammer.

[Robby Findler]

Probably people find out about the mailing list by the website, right? We
could post an email address or two there where asks should go?

Robby


On Tue, Jan 11, 2022 at 12:41 PM Sam Tobin-Hochstadt 
wrote:

> One thing to note here: it's now not possible to _request_ to join the
> list. If someone wants to join the list, they have to know someone who
> is already a member and ask them to join.
>
> It looks like another option is "Anyone on the web can ask" to join.
> It's not immediately clear who gets the emails when people ask, but
> this seems like it might be a good intermediate position.
>
> Sam
>
> On Sun, Dec 19, 2021 at 12:32 PM Sage Gerard  wrote:
> >
> > Alright, thanks to all of you for the quick replies. As of this writing,
> the list has been reconfigured to create an explicit perimeter between the
> non-members and members. The public can no longer let themselves in.
> >
> > Not totally out of the woods yet.
> >
> > Someone please confirm if you can invite others using Members page ->
> "Add Member". If not, then please follow up with me.
> > This model can be compromised by someone going rogue and inviting a
> bunch of spammers. I'm expecting that our communal trust is high enough to
> make this unlikely.
> >
> > Considering the risk profile seems less scary, disregard request to
> delete my emails. :)
> >
> > On 12/18/21 3:02 PM, Matthias Felleisen wrote:
> >
> >
> > +2! And many thanks. (I was personally spared this spam until very
> recently. No clue why)
> >
> > — Matthias
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Dec 18, 2021, at 2:55 PM, Robby Findler 
> wrote:
> >
> > +1! Thank you.
> >
> > Robby
> >
> > On Sat, Dec 18, 2021 at 1:43 PM Matthew Flatt 
> wrote:
> >>
> >> The "members" option sounds right to me. Thanks for tracking down a way
> >> to improve the situation!
> >>
> >> At Sat, 18 Dec 2021 19:35:23 +, Sage Gerard wrote:
> >> > Core team,
> >> >
> >> > Sam asked me to issue bans for a troublesome spammer. I've done so,
> even
> >> > just today. I understand I need quorum for larger decisions. This is
> why
> >> > I have not yet reconfigured the list to permanently stop the spammer.
> >> > After researching the problem further, I need your urgent attention.
> >> >
> >> > I found that the spam messages sometimes link to other Google group
> >> > posts affected by the spammer. A recent trail leads to a
> >> > comp.lang.python Google message in 2017. I suspect that email
> addresses
> >> > are scraped in unmoderated lists that freely hand out membership.
> After
> >> > checking the list settings, I found that this is one of those lists. I
> >> > hypothesize that our email addresses are being scraped and
> >> > cross-referenced for use in other unmoderated lists.
> >> >
> >> > It's one thing to flatly complain about a spammer on this list, and
> >> > another to willingly maintain a transmission vector. We need to stop
> >> > automatically handing out group membership with our current settings.
> We
> >> > can have  issue list memberships. I need you all to fill in
> the
> >> > blank with "moderators" or "members." I'll translate the settings
> >> > accordingly.
> >> >
> >> > Given the holidays, I respect your time. Please reciprocate with
> respect
> >> > for the urgency this problem creates. I will revoke my own mailing
> list
> >> > privileges and membership in three weeks, on January 8th, 2022. I will
> >> > leave the settings however they read at the time to prevent
> >> > interruption, and request that own messages then be deleted to limit
> the
> >> > role my email address plays for the spammer.
> >> >
> >> > I am not volunteering to moderate membership applications, and I am
> not
> >> > commenting on how to verify the impact of possible email leaks.
> Between
> >> > the Discourse move and (majority?) perspective towards email, I'm not
> >> > sure how I would be useful doing either. If my opinion holds weight,
> I'd
> >> > advise the answer be "members" so that any available moderators can
> >> > focus on rule breakers while the community grows at a self-directed
> speed.
> >> >
> >> > Let me know, and thank you.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups
> >> > "Racket Users" group.
> >> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
> send an
> >> > email to racket-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> >> > To view this discussion on the web visit
> >> >
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/5fa6a8bb-88e4-37c6-f0b9-2ed372bc
> >> > e8fe%40sagegerard.com.
> >>
> >> --
> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "Racket Users" group.
> >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
> an email to racket-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> >> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/20211218124300.343%40sirmail.smtps.cs.utah.edu
> .
> >
> >
> > --
> > You received 

Re: [racket-users] Core Team: I need you decide what I should do about the spammer.

[Sam Tobin-Hochstadt]

One thing to note here: it's now not possible to _request_ to join the
list. If someone wants to join the list, they have to know someone who
is already a member and ask them to join.

It looks like another option is "Anyone on the web can ask" to join.
It's not immediately clear who gets the emails when people ask, but
this seems like it might be a good intermediate position.

Sam

On Sun, Dec 19, 2021 at 12:32 PM Sage Gerard  wrote:
>
> Alright, thanks to all of you for the quick replies. As of this writing, the 
> list has been reconfigured to create an explicit perimeter between the 
> non-members and members. The public can no longer let themselves in.
>
> Not totally out of the woods yet.
>
> Someone please confirm if you can invite others using Members page -> "Add 
> Member". If not, then please follow up with me.
> This model can be compromised by someone going rogue and inviting a bunch of 
> spammers. I'm expecting that our communal trust is high enough to make this 
> unlikely.
>
> Considering the risk profile seems less scary, disregard request to delete my 
> emails. :)
>
> On 12/18/21 3:02 PM, Matthias Felleisen wrote:
>
>
> +2! And many thanks. (I was personally spared this spam until very recently. 
> No clue why)
>
> — Matthias
>
>
>
>
> On Dec 18, 2021, at 2:55 PM, Robby Findler  wrote:
>
> +1! Thank you.
>
> Robby
>
> On Sat, Dec 18, 2021 at 1:43 PM Matthew Flatt  wrote:
>>
>> The "members" option sounds right to me. Thanks for tracking down a way
>> to improve the situation!
>>
>> At Sat, 18 Dec 2021 19:35:23 +, Sage Gerard wrote:
>> > Core team,
>> >
>> > Sam asked me to issue bans for a troublesome spammer. I've done so, even
>> > just today. I understand I need quorum for larger decisions. This is why
>> > I have not yet reconfigured the list to permanently stop the spammer.
>> > After researching the problem further, I need your urgent attention.
>> >
>> > I found that the spam messages sometimes link to other Google group
>> > posts affected by the spammer. A recent trail leads to a
>> > comp.lang.python Google message in 2017. I suspect that email addresses
>> > are scraped in unmoderated lists that freely hand out membership. After
>> > checking the list settings, I found that this is one of those lists. I
>> > hypothesize that our email addresses are being scraped and
>> > cross-referenced for use in other unmoderated lists.
>> >
>> > It's one thing to flatly complain about a spammer on this list, and
>> > another to willingly maintain a transmission vector. We need to stop
>> > automatically handing out group membership with our current settings. We
>> > can have  issue list memberships. I need you all to fill in the
>> > blank with "moderators" or "members." I'll translate the settings
>> > accordingly.
>> >
>> > Given the holidays, I respect your time. Please reciprocate with respect
>> > for the urgency this problem creates. I will revoke my own mailing list
>> > privileges and membership in three weeks, on January 8th, 2022. I will
>> > leave the settings however they read at the time to prevent
>> > interruption, and request that own messages then be deleted to limit the
>> > role my email address plays for the spammer.
>> >
>> > I am not volunteering to moderate membership applications, and I am not
>> > commenting on how to verify the impact of possible email leaks. Between
>> > the Discourse move and (majority?) perspective towards email, I'm not
>> > sure how I would be useful doing either. If my opinion holds weight, I'd
>> > advise the answer be "members" so that any available moderators can
>> > focus on rule breakers while the community grows at a self-directed speed.
>> >
>> > Let me know, and thank you.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> > "Racket Users" group.
>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> > email to racket-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> > To view this discussion on the web visit
>> > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/5fa6a8bb-88e4-37c6-f0b9-2ed372bc
>> > e8fe%40sagegerard.com.
>>
>> --
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>> "Racket Users" group.
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>> email to racket-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/20211218124300.343%40sirmail.smtps.cs.utah.edu.
>
>
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>
>
> --
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Re: [racket-users] Core Team: I need you decide what I should do about the spammer.

[Sage Gerard]

Someone else wanted to chime in here. This email is just to make the thread 
easier for them to find.

On 12/19/21 8:35 PM, Sorawee Porncharoenwase wrote:

> FWIW, here're the settings of racket-users from the About tab:
>
> Anyone on the web: can see group
>
> Group owners and managers: can view members
>
> Anyone on the web: can view conversations
>
> Group members: can post
>
> Invited users: can join group
>
> and here're the settings of racket-dev:
>
> Anyone on the web: can see group
>
> Group members: can view members
>
> Anyone on the web: can view conversations
>
> Group members: can post
>
> Anyone on the web: can join group
>
> It looks like racket-users might need to change "Group owners and managers: 
> can view members" to "Group members: can view members", and racket-dev might 
> need to change "Anyone on the web: can join group" to "Invited users: can 
> join group".
>
> On Sun, Dec 19, 2021 at 5:25 PM Nadeem Abdul Hamid  wrote:
>
>> In other Google groups that I'm on, when I view the group, the links in the 
>> left bar read "Conversations", "Members", "About", "My membership settings". 
>> But in the Racket Users, there isn't a link to the "Members" list.
>>
>> On Sun, Dec 19, 2021 at 5:24 PM Sage Gerard  wrote:
>>
>>> Looks like I scoped invitation powers to group managers, not members. 
>>> Checking on this.
>>>
>>> Sent from ProtonMail mobile
>>>
>>>  Original Message 
>>> On Dec 19, 2021, 4:17 PM, Nadeem Abdul Hamid < nad...@acm.org> wrote:
>>>
 I don't have any special privileges... when I view the Google group, I 
 don't see a "Members" page at all and no where to invite anyone else. All 
 I can access is a link "My membership settings".

 --- nadeem

 On Sun, Dec 19, 2021 at 3:49 PM Robby Findler  
 wrote:

> When I follow the link at the bottom of one of these messages, click on 
> members, I see an "add members" button and clicking on it gives me a 
> place to add email addresses. I didn't actually add email addresses to 
> the list and try to add them, and I might have already had special 
> privileges on this list so that might not have been the most useful test.
>
> Robby
>
> On Sun, Dec 19, 2021 at 11:32 AM Sage Gerard  wrote:
>
>> Alright, thanks to all of you for the quick replies. As of this writing, 
>> the list has been reconfigured to create an explicit perimeter between 
>> the non-members and members. The public can no longer let themselves in.
>>
>> Not totally out of the woods yet.
>>
>> - Someone please confirm if you can invite others using Members page -> 
>> "Add Member". If not, then please follow up with me.
>> - This model can be compromised by someone going rogue and inviting a 
>> bunch of spammers. I'm expecting that our communal trust is high enough 
>> to make this unlikely.
>>
>> Considering the risk profile seems less scary, disregard request to 
>> delete my emails. :)
>>
>> On 12/18/21 3:02 PM, Matthias Felleisen wrote:
>>
>>> +2! And many thanks. (I was personally spared this spam until very 
>>> recently. No clue why)
>>>
>>> — Matthias
>>>
 On Dec 18, 2021, at 2:55 PM, Robby Findler  
 wrote:

 +1! Thank you.

 Robby

 On Sat, Dec 18, 2021 at 1:43 PM Matthew Flatt  
 wrote:

> The "members" option sounds right to me. Thanks for tracking down a 
> way
> to improve the situation!
>
> At Sat, 18 Dec 2021 19:35:23 +, Sage Gerard wrote:
>> Core team,
>>
>> Sam asked me to issue bans for a troublesome spammer. I've done so, 
>> even
>> just today. I understand I need quorum for larger decisions. This is 
>> why
>> I have not yet reconfigured the list to permanently stop the spammer.
>> After researching the problem further, I need your urgent attention.
>>
>> I found that the spam messages sometimes link to other Google group
>> posts affected by the spammer. A recent trail leads to a
>> comp.lang.python Google message in 2017. I suspect that email 
>> addresses
>> are scraped in unmoderated lists that freely hand out membership. 
>> After
>> checking the list settings, I found that this is one of those lists. 
>> I
>> hypothesize that our email addresses are being scraped and
>> cross-referenced for use in other unmoderated lists.
>>
>> It's one thing to flatly complain about a spammer on this list, and
>> another to willingly maintain a transmission vector. We need to stop
>> automatically handing out group membership with our current 
>> settings. We
>> can have  issue list memberships. I need you all to fill in 
>> the
>> blank 

Re: [racket-users] looking for advice on a web background process manager

[David Storrs]

Speaking of existing task managers:
https://docs.racket-lang.org/majordomo2/index.html   



On Wed, Jan 5, 2022 at 7:31 PM Stefan Schwarzer 
wrote:

> On 2021-12-30 21:33, 'Wayne Harris' via Racket Users wrote:
> > I'm considering writing a manager for background processes --- such as
> send a batch of e-mail or other process that takes a while to finish ---
> for a web system.
> >
> > I see the challenge here as just writing something that will look like a
> > very basic UNIX shell --- so I'll call it ``web-api-shell'' from now on.
> > (``Web'' because it will be used by a web system through some HTTP API.)
> >
> > This thing has to be flawless. I'm looking for design principles and
> advice.
> > [...]
>
> Have you looked at existing task queues and message brokers?
> I guess they can already give you a part of the robustness
> you're looking for. It would be a pity to reinvent the wheel,
> especially since it will probably be quite difficult and
> time-consuming to implement this robustness yourself.
>
> But it might as well be that I misunderstand your requirements.
> :-)
>
> Stefan
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Racket Users" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to racket-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/ddeb9170-6273-34be-ec6d-7edc8b3a4146%40sschwarzer.net
> .
>

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Re: [racket-users] looking for advice on a web background process manager

[Stefan Schwarzer]

On 2021-12-30 21:33, 'Wayne Harris' via Racket Users wrote:

I'm considering writing a manager for background processes --- such as send a 
batch of e-mail or other process that takes a while to finish --- for a web 
system.

I see the challenge here as just writing something that will look like a
very basic UNIX shell --- so I'll call it ``web-api-shell'' from now on.
(``Web'' because it will be used by a web system through some HTTP API.)

This thing has to be flawless. I'm looking for design principles and advice.
[...]


Have you looked at existing task queues and message brokers?
I guess they can already give you a part of the robustness
you're looking for. It would be a pity to reinvent the wheel,
especially since it will probably be quite difficult and
time-consuming to implement this robustness yourself.

But it might as well be that I misunderstand your requirements.
:-)

Stefan

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Re: [racket-users] looking for advice on a web background process manager

[Philip McGrath]

Hi,

On Thu, Dec 30, 2021 at 3:33 PM 'Wayne Harris' via Racket Users <
racket-users@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> I'm considering writing a manager for background processes --- such as
> send a batch of e-mail or other process that takes a while to finish ---
> for a web system.
>
> I see the challenge here as just writing something that will look like a
> very basic UNIX shell --- so I'll call it ``web-api-shell'' from now on.
> (``Web'' because it will be used by a web system through some HTTP API.)
>
> This thing has to be flawless.  I'm looking for design principles and
> advice.
>
> I don't know which language I will use, but I'd like to use Racket at
> least as a prototype.  I am looking at section 15.4 at
>
>   https://docs.racket-lang.org/reference/os.html
>
> and I'm not sure it gives me all the control I need.  I have a more
> lower view of the job --- fork(), execve(), waitpid(), SIGCHLD.  But I
> suppose Racket handles this much more elegantly that I would in C.
>

> Your advice will be very appreciated.
>
> (*) Where will it run
>
> It will run on GNU systems running the Linux kernel.
>
> (*) My own thoughts
>
> The interface to shell will be through HTTP requests, so this shell will
> likely be a web server of some sort.  But before I get involved in the
> web at all, I need the shell working flawlessly.
>
> So I need a laboratory first.  I could write a program that reads some
> named pipe on disk to get commands such as ``run this or that'' while I
> work.  (Later I can write a web server replacing this named-pipe
> interface.)
>
> Just like a UNIX shell, this web-api-shell must know all every process
> it runs.  I suppose the work is essentially fork(), execve() followed by
> waitpid().
>
> One concern I have is the following.  Is it possible for a process to
> simply ``get out of'' the shell?  What do I mean by that?  A process
> that does fork() and puts itself into background would leave the
> web-api-shell's control, wouldn't it?
>

> I think I must avoid that.  Perhaps I can't let just any process run.
> Perhaps the web-api-shell must only offer a few processes carefully
> written by myself --- so that I know they won't put themselves in
> background.  (For instance, I can't let them change PIDs, otherwise I
> won't have any idea who they are and that's a mess.  I'd love to somehow
> restrict system calls such as fork().)
>
> (*) Serialization
>
> I also think this web-api-shell must not be invoked in parallel.  So I
> guess I must use some queue of requests with no race condition and
> pull each request as it comes.  Any pointers on how to do this basic
> thing with my zero experience?
>
> (*) What is my level of training?
>
> In the past I've studied many parts of
>
>   Advanced Programming in the UNIX Environment
>   W. Richard Stevens
>
> I will definitely have to read it again to get work on this project.
> Can you mention any UNIX concepts that are of great relevance for this
> project?  I don't think I ever got my mind wrapped around things like
> sessions, session leaders and so on.  Are these concepts relevant to
> this application?
>

As you suspected, in Racket, the approach will be significantly different
than in C—hopefully, safer and more elegant!

The most basic concepts you will need to learn about are Racket's "green"
threads (not OS/POSIX threads) and "synchronizable events," which are based
on Concurrent ML. A good place to start would be the tutorial introduction
"More: Systems Programming with Racket":
https://docs.racket-lang.org/more/index.html

You will surely also want to read the Racket Guide chapter on "Concurrency
and Synchronization" (https://docs.racket-lang.org/guide/concurrency.html)
and the associated Racket Reference sections. I have found Matthew and
Robbie's paper “Kill-Safe Synchronization Abstractions” (
https://www.cs.utah.edu/plt/publications/pldi04-ff.pdf) an accessible
introduction to "synchronizable events" and the Concurrent ML
implementation. Andy Wingo, the Guile maintainer, has some blog posts about
how Concurrent ML's approach to concurrency works under the hood:
https://wingolog.org/archives/2017/06/29/a-new-concurrent-ml For maximum
detail, I can also recommend John Reppy's book *Concurrent Programming in
ML* from Cambridge UP (most recently revised in 2007, IIUC).

Once you understand Racket's approach to synchronization in general, I
think the way OS-level facilities (especially processes:
https://docs.racket-lang.org/reference/subprocess.html) interact with them
will make more sense. In particular, when we say that something is
"blocking" in Racket, we mean that it blocks a Racket-level green thread,
while allowing other Racket threads implemented by the same OS thread to
run concurrently. (It is possible to block the whole process using unsafe
functionality from the FFI, but that would generally be a bug.) This means
that even the simple `system*/exit-code` function, wrapped in a call to
`thread`, can do very well for running a 

Re: [racket-users] Paper from my first year in graduate school - Racket Simulation

[Nguyen Linh Chi]

Hello Stephen,
sure the code is available. Actually it is quite straightforward if people
like to recreate the simulation.
you just need to program finite automata to print out strategy and let
those strategies match up and look for points after each match up.

The population of automata then evolve in a differential equation style. so
the population moves a little closer to strategies that scores more.
after a long time of evolution, the population might settle down in an
equilibrium point. since the algrorithm is stochastic, after a while, the
population can move out of that equilibrium and on the way to another
(might be better) one

let me know if that clarifies
cheers

Vào 23:59, T.4, 22 Th12, 2021 Stephen De Gabrielle 
đã viết:

> Hi
>
> is the code available ?
>
> https://github.com/ayaderaghul
>
> s.
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 21, 2021 at 9:59 PM Linh Chi Nguyen 
> wrote:
>
>> Hey,
>>
>> all the simulations for my paper (published in Bio-inspired EAI
>> International Conference 2016) back then when I was a first year graduate
>> student are in Racket ! This morning I discover that it has 624 downloads
>> and counting. I am so proud of my graduate time <3
>>
>> https://eudl.eu/doi/10.4108/eai.3-12-2015.2262403
>>
>> Have fun and keep inspiring <3
>>
>> regards,
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "Racket Users" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to racket-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/c4b31aac-8ad9-4a14-8d34-b46b71f4a5dfn%40googlegroups.com
>> 
>> .
>>
>

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Re: [racket-users] HTDP 2ed Learning resources and solutions to exercises

['John Clements' via Racket Users]

Solutions for the first edition are available at

https://htdp.org/2003-09-26/Solutions/

Also, you will probably find a faster response for questions like this at the 
racket discourse, 

https://racket.discourse.group/

(You might even find a pointer to 2e solutions? not sure)

Best,

John Clements

> On Dec 15, 2021, at 05:31, acate...@gmail.com  wrote:
> 
> Its one of my goals in 2022 to teach myself programming. To kick this goal 
> off early, I have decided to pick up HTDP 2e from Amazon.  After a cursory 
> glance through the book and working through a few problems. I notice that 
> there are no provided solution/ answer to the exercises in the book.  Which 
> means that there is no way to check my solutions against  the proper 
> recommended way to solve the exercises.  As a result, I have no idea if I am 
> actual on the right track in this learning process.  Where can I find the 
> solutions to the exercises in HTDP?  If there are no solutions what book 
> would you recommend that would be suited for a self-learner? 
> 
>  
> Thanks
> 
> 
> -- 
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> "Racket Users" group.
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> email to racket-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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Re: [racket-users] Paper from my first year in graduate school - Racket Simulation

[Stephen De Gabrielle]

Hi

is the code available ?

https://github.com/ayaderaghul

s.


On Tue, Dec 21, 2021 at 9:59 PM Linh Chi Nguyen 
wrote:

> Hey,
>
> all the simulations for my paper (published in Bio-inspired EAI
> International Conference 2016) back then when I was a first year graduate
> student are in Racket ! This morning I discover that it has 624 downloads
> and counting. I am so proud of my graduate time <3
>
> https://eudl.eu/doi/10.4108/eai.3-12-2015.2262403
>
> Have fun and keep inspiring <3
>
> regards,
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Racket Users" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to racket-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/c4b31aac-8ad9-4a14-8d34-b46b71f4a5dfn%40googlegroups.com
> 
> .
>

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Re: [racket-users] Formal semantics of PLT Redex

[Mallku Ernesto Soldevila Raffa]

Wow!, that was fast!
No need to thank, I'm just using your awesome tool to perform random 
testing.
Thanks,
Mallku

El martes, 21 de diciembre de 2021 a las 18:22:09 UTC-3, Robby Findler 
escribió:

> There was a bug in the matcher; I've pushed a fix. 
>
> With that fix, you'll get
>
> (list
>  (match
>   (list
>(bind 'A '(hole (hole hole)))
>(bind 'x '(hole (hole hole))
>
> as the result. That's different than the matcher because the pattern `A` 
> is really shorthand for something like `(name A (nt A))`, where the `name` 
> part introduces the name and the `nt` pattern matching construct matches 
> only non-terminals without binding a name.
>
> Thanks for finding the bug!
>
> Robby
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 21, 2021 at 2:50 PM Mallku Ernesto Soldevila Raffa wrote:
>
>> Just to clarify, I understand that the several binds of x correspond to
>> the several patterns name in the productions, and the pattern against with
>> we are matching, but I would have expected for the firsts to be discarded,
>> or, if still considered in the resulting match for some reason, that I 
>> don't
>> know, I would have expected for the application of the constraint of 
>> names, 
>> that would have rendered #f the match.
>>
>> thanks!,
>> Mallku
>>
>> El martes, 21 de diciembre de 2021 a las 17:38:28 UTC-3, Mallku Ernesto 
>> Soldevila Raffa escribió:
>>
>>> Hi to everyone!,
>>> I'm trying to test the mechanization of Redex's semantics done in [1],
>>> against the present version of racket, 8.3. I'm using the 
>>> random-match-test.rkt 
>>>
>>> module from [1] to generate random grammars, patterns and terms, and to 
>>> test them
>>> using the proposed mechanization of Redex in [1] and the actual 
>>> implementation of
>>> it, in racket 8.3.
>>>
>>> In doing it, I've found an example that I cannot explain in terms of my 
>>> understanding 
>>> of the behavior of the name pattern:
>>>
>>> (define-language L [A (name x B)]
>>>[B (hole (name x (hole hole)))])
>>>
>>> (redex-match L (name x A)
>>>(term (hole (hole hole
>>>
>>> The result of the previous match is:
>>>
>>> (list (match (list
>>>   (bind 'A '(hole (hole hole)))
>>>   (bind 'x '(hole hole))
>>>   (bind 'x '(hole (hole hole)))
>>>   (bind 'x '(hole (hole hole))
>>>
>>> Which shows that 'x' is bound to different, non-equivalent, terms. While
>>> I've never used the pattern name explicitly in such a way, while 
>>> defining
>>> grammars, I'm still curious about what is going on here. Even more, I 
>>> would
>>> have thought that the following match would return the same result as the
>>> previous:
>>>
>>> (redex-match L (name x (name x B))
>>>(term (hole (hole hole
>>>
>>> where I just replaced the non-term A by the rhs of its only production, 
>>> but
>>> what I obtain is:
>>>
>>> #f
>>>
>>> As a side note, the mechanization of Redex in [1] just returns something
>>> equivalent to:
>>>
>>> (bind 'x '(hole (hole hole)))
>>>
>>> In both cases. Does anyone understand the behavior of the shown example
>>> under racket 8.3?
>>>
>>> Thanks in advance!,
>>> Mallku
>>>
>>> [1] : https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007%2F978-3-642-25318-8_27
>>> El jueves, 9 de diciembre de 2021 a las 13:20:31 UTC-3, Mallku Ernesto 
>>> Soldevila Raffa escribió:
>>>
 Thanks a lot for the info! If I found any mismatches, I'll report it.

 Regards,
 Mallku

 El miércoles, 8 de diciembre de 2021 a las 23:32:25 UTC-3, Robby 
 Findler escribió:

> I'm sorry, my sentence was ambiguous! I'm saying that I don't know of 
> any other work that is specifically focused on the semantics of Redex. 
> (Of 
> course, there may be work I'm not aware of.)
>
> The paper is still a good match, I believe, yes. You're right that the 
> syntactic checks for well-formed grammars have tightened since that era, 
> but if the program is valid, then I think it should match; the underlying 
> algorithms have not changed, only bug fixes have happened.
>
> Of course, if you find that this isn't the case, I'd be very 
> interested to hear more :)
>
> Robby
>
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 8, 2021 at 6:34 PM Mallku Ernesto Soldevila Raffa wrote:
>
>> I beg your pardon!, I'm not understanding the answer, what is it that
>> might be specific of Redex? 
>>
>> I suspect that the answer is that there isn't some recent work on 
>> formal 
>> semantics specifically about Redex. In that case, does anybody know 
>> if the 
>> already mentioned paper [1] is still a good match for today's 
>> semantics of 
>> Redex? The paper provides a mechanization of the model in Redex, 
>> together 
>> with some tools to test it. Of interest is a tool that asks Redex to 
>> generate 
>> random patterns and terms that match against them, and tests if the 
>> mechanized model is 

Re: [racket-users] Formal semantics of PLT Redex

[Robby Findler]

There was a bug in the matcher; I've pushed a fix.

With that fix, you'll get

(list
 (match
  (list
   (bind 'A '(hole (hole hole)))
   (bind 'x '(hole (hole hole))

as the result. That's different than the matcher because the pattern `A` is
really shorthand for something like `(name A (nt A))`, where the `name`
part introduces the name and the `nt` pattern matching construct matches
only non-terminals without binding a name.

Thanks for finding the bug!

Robby


On Tue, Dec 21, 2021 at 2:50 PM Mallku Ernesto Soldevila Raffa <
mallkuerne...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Just to clarify, I understand that the several binds of x correspond to
> the several patterns name in the productions, and the pattern against with
> we are matching, but I would have expected for the firsts to be discarded,
> or, if still considered in the resulting match for some reason, that I
> don't
> know, I would have expected for the application of the constraint of
> names,
> that would have rendered #f the match.
>
> thanks!,
> Mallku
>
> El martes, 21 de diciembre de 2021 a las 17:38:28 UTC-3, Mallku Ernesto
> Soldevila Raffa escribió:
>
>> Hi to everyone!,
>> I'm trying to test the mechanization of Redex's semantics done in [1],
>> against the present version of racket, 8.3. I'm using the 
>> random-match-test.rkt
>>
>> module from [1] to generate random grammars, patterns and terms, and to
>> test them
>> using the proposed mechanization of Redex in [1] and the actual
>> implementation of
>> it, in racket 8.3.
>>
>> In doing it, I've found an example that I cannot explain in terms of my
>> understanding
>> of the behavior of the name pattern:
>>
>> (define-language L [A (name x B)]
>>[B (hole (name x (hole hole)))])
>>
>> (redex-match L (name x A)
>>(term (hole (hole hole
>>
>> The result of the previous match is:
>>
>> (list (match (list
>>   (bind 'A '(hole (hole hole)))
>>   (bind 'x '(hole hole))
>>   (bind 'x '(hole (hole hole)))
>>   (bind 'x '(hole (hole hole))
>>
>> Which shows that 'x' is bound to different, non-equivalent, terms. While
>> I've never used the pattern name explicitly in such a way, while defining
>> grammars, I'm still curious about what is going on here. Even more, I
>> would
>> have thought that the following match would return the same result as the
>> previous:
>>
>> (redex-match L (name x (name x B))
>>(term (hole (hole hole
>>
>> where I just replaced the non-term A by the rhs of its only production,
>> but
>> what I obtain is:
>>
>> #f
>>
>> As a side note, the mechanization of Redex in [1] just returns something
>> equivalent to:
>>
>> (bind 'x '(hole (hole hole)))
>>
>> In both cases. Does anyone understand the behavior of the shown example
>> under racket 8.3?
>>
>> Thanks in advance!,
>> Mallku
>>
>> [1] : https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007%2F978-3-642-25318-8_27
>> El jueves, 9 de diciembre de 2021 a las 13:20:31 UTC-3, Mallku Ernesto
>> Soldevila Raffa escribió:
>>
>>> Thanks a lot for the info! If I found any mismatches, I'll report it.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Mallku
>>>
>>> El miércoles, 8 de diciembre de 2021 a las 23:32:25 UTC-3, Robby Findler
>>> escribió:
>>>
 I'm sorry, my sentence was ambiguous! I'm saying that I don't know of
 any other work that is specifically focused on the semantics of Redex. (Of
 course, there may be work I'm not aware of.)

 The paper is still a good match, I believe, yes. You're right that the
 syntactic checks for well-formed grammars have tightened since that era,
 but if the program is valid, then I think it should match; the underlying
 algorithms have not changed, only bug fixes have happened.

 Of course, if you find that this isn't the case, I'd be very interested
 to hear more :)

 Robby



 On Wed, Dec 8, 2021 at 6:34 PM Mallku Ernesto Soldevila Raffa <
 mallku...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I beg your pardon!, I'm not understanding the answer, what is it that
> might be specific of Redex?
>
> I suspect that the answer is that there isn't some recent work on
> formal
> semantics specifically about Redex. In that case, does anybody know if
> the
> already mentioned paper [1] is still a good match for today's
> semantics of
> Redex? The paper provides a mechanization of the model in Redex,
> together
> with some tools to test it. Of interest is a tool that asks Redex to
> generate
> random patterns and terms that match against them, and tests if the
> mechanized model is capable of reproducing the matching (or that is
> what
> I suspect that the tests are doing :P ). It was possible to run the
> mechanization
> on a recent version of Redex, but the generated patterns are
> ill-formed
> (e.g., in-hole p1 p2, where p1 contains more than 1 hole). Of course I
> could
> provide more 

Re: [racket-users] Formal semantics of PLT Redex

[Mallku Ernesto Soldevila Raffa]

Just to clarify, I understand that the several binds of x correspond to
the several patterns name in the productions, and the pattern against with
we are matching, but I would have expected for the firsts to be discarded,
or, if still considered in the resulting match for some reason, that I don't
know, I would have expected for the application of the constraint of names, 
that would have rendered #f the match.

thanks!,
Mallku

El martes, 21 de diciembre de 2021 a las 17:38:28 UTC-3, Mallku Ernesto 
Soldevila Raffa escribió:

> Hi to everyone!,
> I'm trying to test the mechanization of Redex's semantics done in [1],
> against the present version of racket, 8.3. I'm using the 
> random-match-test.rkt 
>
> module from [1] to generate random grammars, patterns and terms, and to 
> test them
> using the proposed mechanization of Redex in [1] and the actual 
> implementation of
> it, in racket 8.3.
>
> In doing it, I've found an example that I cannot explain in terms of my 
> understanding 
> of the behavior of the name pattern:
>
> (define-language L [A (name x B)]
>[B (hole (name x (hole hole)))])
>
> (redex-match L (name x A)
>(term (hole (hole hole
>
> The result of the previous match is:
>
> (list (match (list
>   (bind 'A '(hole (hole hole)))
>   (bind 'x '(hole hole))
>   (bind 'x '(hole (hole hole)))
>   (bind 'x '(hole (hole hole))
>
> Which shows that 'x' is bound to different, non-equivalent, terms. While
> I've never used the pattern name explicitly in such a way, while defining
> grammars, I'm still curious about what is going on here. Even more, I would
> have thought that the following match would return the same result as the
> previous:
>
> (redex-match L (name x (name x B))
>(term (hole (hole hole
>
> where I just replaced the non-term A by the rhs of its only production, but
> what I obtain is:
>
> #f
>
> As a side note, the mechanization of Redex in [1] just returns something
> equivalent to:
>
> (bind 'x '(hole (hole hole)))
>
> In both cases. Does anyone understand the behavior of the shown example
> under racket 8.3?
>
> Thanks in advance!,
> Mallku
>
> [1] : https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007%2F978-3-642-25318-8_27
> El jueves, 9 de diciembre de 2021 a las 13:20:31 UTC-3, Mallku Ernesto 
> Soldevila Raffa escribió:
>
>> Thanks a lot for the info! If I found any mismatches, I'll report it.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Mallku
>>
>> El miércoles, 8 de diciembre de 2021 a las 23:32:25 UTC-3, Robby Findler 
>> escribió:
>>
>>> I'm sorry, my sentence was ambiguous! I'm saying that I don't know of 
>>> any other work that is specifically focused on the semantics of Redex. (Of 
>>> course, there may be work I'm not aware of.)
>>>
>>> The paper is still a good match, I believe, yes. You're right that the 
>>> syntactic checks for well-formed grammars have tightened since that era, 
>>> but if the program is valid, then I think it should match; the underlying 
>>> algorithms have not changed, only bug fixes have happened.
>>>
>>> Of course, if you find that this isn't the case, I'd be very interested 
>>> to hear more :)
>>>
>>> Robby
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Dec 8, 2021 at 6:34 PM Mallku Ernesto Soldevila Raffa <
>>> mallku...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
 I beg your pardon!, I'm not understanding the answer, what is it that
 might be specific of Redex? 

 I suspect that the answer is that there isn't some recent work on 
 formal 
 semantics specifically about Redex. In that case, does anybody know if 
 the 
 already mentioned paper [1] is still a good match for today's semantics 
 of 
 Redex? The paper provides a mechanization of the model in Redex, 
 together 
 with some tools to test it. Of interest is a tool that asks Redex to 
 generate 
 random patterns and terms that match against them, and tests if the 
 mechanized model is capable of reproducing the matching (or that is what
 I suspect that the tests are doing :P ). It was possible to run the 
 mechanization 
 on a recent version of Redex, but the generated patterns are ill-formed 
 (e.g., in-hole p1 p2, where p1 contains more than 1 hole). Of course I 
 could
 provide more details about the error, but I don't know if it is of 
 interest, it's
 a mechanization written for the Redex version that comes with Racket 5.*
 or something like that.

 Thanks!,
 Mallku


 [1] : https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007%2F978-3-642-25318-8_27

 El miércoles, 8 de diciembre de 2021 a las 21:03:44 UTC-3, Robby 
 Findler escribió:

> I think that might be it specifically about redex, I am sorry to say. 
>
> Robby
>
> On Wed, Dec 8, 2021 at 5:28 PM Mallku Ernesto Soldevila Raffa <
> mallku...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi community!,
>> I'm interested in understanding the semantics of 

Re: [racket-users] Formal semantics of PLT Redex

[Mallku Ernesto Soldevila Raffa]

Hi to everyone!,
I'm trying to test the mechanization of Redex's semantics done in [1],
against the present version of racket, 8.3. I'm using the random-match-test.rkt 

module from [1] to generate random grammars, patterns and terms, and to 
test them
using the proposed mechanization of Redex in [1] and the actual 
implementation of
it, in racket 8.3.

In doing it, I've found an example that I cannot explain in terms of my 
understanding 
of the behavior of the name pattern:

(define-language L [A (name x B)]
   [B (hole (name x (hole hole)))])

(redex-match L (name x A)
   (term (hole (hole hole

The result of the previous match is:

(list (match (list
  (bind 'A '(hole (hole hole)))
  (bind 'x '(hole hole))
  (bind 'x '(hole (hole hole)))
  (bind 'x '(hole (hole hole))

Which shows that 'x' is bound to different, non-equivalent, terms. While
I've never used the pattern name explicitly in such a way, while defining
grammars, I'm still curious about what is going on here. Even more, I would
have thought that the following match would return the same result as the
previous:

(redex-match L (name x (name x B))
   (term (hole (hole hole

where I just replaced the non-term A by the rhs of its only production, but
what I obtain is:

#f

As a side note, the mechanization of Redex in [1] just returns something
equivalent to:

(bind 'x '(hole (hole hole)))

In both cases. Does anyone understand the behavior of the shown example
under racket 8.3?

Thanks in advance!,
Mallku

[1] : https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007%2F978-3-642-25318-8_27
El jueves, 9 de diciembre de 2021 a las 13:20:31 UTC-3, Mallku Ernesto 
Soldevila Raffa escribió:

> Thanks a lot for the info! If I found any mismatches, I'll report it.
>
> Regards,
> Mallku
>
> El miércoles, 8 de diciembre de 2021 a las 23:32:25 UTC-3, Robby Findler 
> escribió:
>
>> I'm sorry, my sentence was ambiguous! I'm saying that I don't know of any 
>> other work that is specifically focused on the semantics of Redex. (Of 
>> course, there may be work I'm not aware of.)
>>
>> The paper is still a good match, I believe, yes. You're right that the 
>> syntactic checks for well-formed grammars have tightened since that era, 
>> but if the program is valid, then I think it should match; the underlying 
>> algorithms have not changed, only bug fixes have happened.
>>
>> Of course, if you find that this isn't the case, I'd be very interested 
>> to hear more :)
>>
>> Robby
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 8, 2021 at 6:34 PM Mallku Ernesto Soldevila Raffa <
>> mallku...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I beg your pardon!, I'm not understanding the answer, what is it that
>>> might be specific of Redex? 
>>>
>>> I suspect that the answer is that there isn't some recent work on formal 
>>> semantics specifically about Redex. In that case, does anybody know if 
>>> the 
>>> already mentioned paper [1] is still a good match for today's semantics 
>>> of 
>>> Redex? The paper provides a mechanization of the model in Redex, 
>>> together 
>>> with some tools to test it. Of interest is a tool that asks Redex to 
>>> generate 
>>> random patterns and terms that match against them, and tests if the 
>>> mechanized model is capable of reproducing the matching (or that is what
>>> I suspect that the tests are doing :P ). It was possible to run the 
>>> mechanization 
>>> on a recent version of Redex, but the generated patterns are ill-formed 
>>> (e.g., in-hole p1 p2, where p1 contains more than 1 hole). Of course I 
>>> could
>>> provide more details about the error, but I don't know if it is of 
>>> interest, it's
>>> a mechanization written for the Redex version that comes with Racket 5.*
>>> or something like that.
>>>
>>> Thanks!,
>>> Mallku
>>>
>>>
>>> [1] : https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007%2F978-3-642-25318-8_27
>>>
>>> El miércoles, 8 de diciembre de 2021 a las 21:03:44 UTC-3, Robby Findler 
>>> escribió:
>>>
 I think that might be it specifically about redex, I am sorry to say. 

 Robby

 On Wed, Dec 8, 2021 at 5:28 PM Mallku Ernesto Soldevila Raffa <
 mallku...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi community!,
> I'm interested in understanding the semantics of PLT Redex, since we 
> are working on a tool
> to translate fragments of Redex models to Coq. At the moment, we just 
> have a 
> mechanization in Coq of the semantics proposed in a ~10 years old 
> paper [1]. Does 
> anybody know if there is an updated work on formal semantics of Redex?
>
> Thanks in advance!,
> Mallku
>
> [1] : https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007%2F978-3-642-25318-8_27 
>
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
> Groups "Racket Users" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
> an email to racket-users...@googlegroups.com.
> To view 

Re: [racket-users] [baseball-cap with `standard-fish`]

[Nathaniel Griswold]

The no context email left me trying to decrypt the hidden meaning  . Thought I 
was being phished for a second.

Here is from discourse:

“”“
 spdegabrielle: [baseball-cap by Justin Zamora] Made with Racket by @JustinZed
“””

> 
> 
> 
> Image credit at 
> https://racket.discourse.group/t/baseball-cap-with-standard-fish/443?u=spdegabrielle
> 

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Re: [racket-users] Porting embedded app from BC to CS

[Matthew Flatt]

At Mon, 20 Dec 2021 11:57:29 -0800 (PST), "thomas_d...@alumni.brown.edu" wrote:
> So what happens from the perspective of embedding C code if an exception 
> occurs in Racket code it calls?

It's not defined. In certain cases, control will escape from the C
code, I think, but it depends on how the C code was reached.

> I can't seem to locate `disable-interrupts` or `enable-interrupts`  via 
> searching the docs, but it sounds like if I needed to compose a sequence of 
> several calls into Racket while keeping a consistent view of memory on the 
> C side, I could do something like:
> 
> racket_apply(racket_primitive("disable-interrupts"),Snil);
> // sequence of racket_ function calls
> racket_apply(racket_primitive("enable-interrupts"),Snil);
> 
> Does that sound correct?

Yes. Those are Chez Scheme functions, so you'd have to look in the Chez
Scheme documentation, which is not currently incorporated into the
Racket documentation.

Probably it would make sense to have more direct support for these in
the C API, and I've put that on my to-do list.

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Re: [racket-users] Porting embedded app from BC to CS

[thomas_d...@alumni.brown.edu]

Thanks! A couple follow-up questions inline.

On Monday, December 20, 2021 at 2:34:29 PM UTC-5 Matthew Flatt wrote:

> There's not really anything you can do to catch exception C-side right 
> now. If you need to catch exceptions, that has to be done Racket-side, 
> possibly with a helper created via `racket_eval`. 
>

So what happens from the perspective of embedding C code if an exception 
occurs in Racket code it calls?

You can get `cpointer?` using `racket_primitive`. To disable garbage 
> collection, I don't have a better idea than using `disable-interrupts` 
> and `enable-interrupts` (again, obtained via `racket_primitive`), 
> although that's limited in the sense that `disable-interrupts` could 
> itself allow a GC through before disabling interrupts, at least in 
> principle. 
>
 
I can't seem to locate `disable-interrupts` or `enable-interrupts`  via 
searching the docs, but it sounds like if I needed to compose a sequence of 
several calls into Racket while keeping a consistent view of memory on the 
C side, I could do something like:

racket_apply(racket_primitive("disable-interrupts"),Snil);
// sequence of racket_ function calls
racket_apply(racket_primitive("enable-interrupts"),Snil);

Does that sound correct?

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Re: [racket-users] Porting embedded app from BC to CS

[Matthew Flatt]

At Fri, 5 Nov 2021 08:58:06 -0700 (PDT), "thomas_d...@alumni.brown.edu" wrote:
>  - What are the preconditions and error-handling setup for calling 
> `racket_dynamic_require` and/or other `racket_*` functions?

There's not really anything you can do to catch exception C-side right
now. If you need to catch exceptions, that has to be done Racket-side,
possibly with a helper created via `racket_eval`.

>  - How does one obtain a path from a C string to pass to 
> `racket_dynamic_require`? (i.e. what's the equivalent idiom to 
> `scheme_make_path`?

You can use `Sstring` to create a Scheme string from a C string or use
`Smake_bytevector` plus `memcpy` to create a Racket byte string. For
conversions like `bytes->path`, use `racket_primitive` to get the
Scheme/Racket function and call it.

>  - There don't appear to be documented equivalents to SCHEME_CPTRP and 
> SCHEME_CPTR_TYPE. 
> What does `racket_cpointer_address` do if the argument is not a cpointer, 
> and is there some way to check the type tag without triggering garbage 
> collection?

You can get `cpointer?` using `racket_primitive`. To disable garbage
collection, I don't have a better idea than using `disable-interrupts`
and `enable-interrupts` (again, obtained via `racket_primitive`),
although that's limited in the sense that `disable-interrupts` could
itself allow a GC through before disabling interrupts, at least in
principle.

> - One of the hassles with Racket BC is that the garbage collection 
> algorithm intetionally triggers segfaults and uses a signal handler to 
> resolve them, marking it hard to use GDB on the larger embedded 
> application. Does Racket CS have the same behavior, or is this not a 
> problem anymore?

Racket CS does not do that --- so, that's something easier, for a
change.


Matthew

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RE: [racket-users] Re: Surprising but convenient

[Jacob Jozef]

Thanks George,I got it now and after some experimenting have seen what you describe.Jos PS,I do close the port after killing the thread and deleting the file. I came across this because I have an object that is written on about two pages with sharing enabled, but takes more than GBs to write without sharing enabled. I included my thread as an example. It is in file The-Little-LISPer.rkt on joskoot/The-Little-LISPer (github.com). The object is the result of having a meta-recursive interpreter interpret its own source code. Following the style of the book by Danial P. Friedman and Mathias Felleisen, non primitive functions are represented by symbolic expressions. In the same GitHub is file interpreter.rkt which represents functions by procedures. The latter writes “#” when interpreting its own source code. (When you want to run my code, you may have to install my package test, which also is in my GitHub repositories (documentation included)). Jos  From: George NeunerSent: lunes, 20 de diciembre de 2021 5:37To: racket-users@googlegroups.comSubject: [racket-users] Re: Surprising but convenient On Sun, 19 Dec 2021 17:50:11 +0100, Jacob Jozef wrote: >I start a thread printing a file. When the file will be very long (say>50 GB) the thread takes too much time and I kill it when it takes>more time than I want to permit. Outside the thread I clean up.>Closing the output-port before deleting the file takes much time. But>to my surprise I can delete the file before closing the port, which>hardly takes time. It will take less time to stop the thread if you work line by line, orin small(ish) groups of lines, and flush the output port each time yougo back for more input. As for deleting the file, all you have done is remove the directoryentry ... the file itself won't go away until the last open handle onit is closed.  That particular behavior /is the same/ in Windows andUnix/Linux.  >After deleting the file, the port remains open, but writing to it does>nothing. Correct? No. Your program still has an open handle to the file and it is stillreading from it.  Only the file's directory entry is gone. You need to close the open file handle in your program in order totruly delete the file.  Depending on your code, simply killing thethread may not do that.  >Thanks, Jos Hope this helps,George -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Racket Users" group.To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to racket-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/2h10sgt81h7nim2ps3dfak2te00m3724hv%404ax.com. 



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Re: [racket-users] Core Team: I need you decide what I should do about the spammer.

[Sorawee Porncharoenwase]

FWIW, here're the settings of racket-users from the About tab:

Anyone on the web: can see group
Group owners and managers: can view members
Anyone on the web: can view conversations
Group members: can post
Invited users: can join group

and here're the settings of racket-dev:

Anyone on the web: can see group
Group members: can view members
Anyone on the web: can view conversations
Group members: can post
Anyone on the web: can join group

It looks like racket-users might need to change "Group owners and managers:
can view members" to "Group members: can view members", and racket-dev
might need to change "Anyone on the web: can join group" to "Invited users:
can join group".



On Sun, Dec 19, 2021 at 5:25 PM Nadeem Abdul Hamid  wrote:

> In other Google groups that I'm on, when I view the group, the links in
> the left bar read "Conversations", "Members", "About", "My membership
> settings". But in the Racket Users, there isn't a link to the "Members"
> list.
>
> On Sun, Dec 19, 2021 at 5:24 PM Sage Gerard  wrote:
>
>> Looks like I scoped invitation powers to group managers, not members.
>> Checking on this.
>>
>>
>> Sent from ProtonMail mobile
>>
>>
>>
>>  Original Message 
>> On Dec 19, 2021, 4:17 PM, Nadeem Abdul Hamid < nad...@acm.org> wrote:
>>
>>
>> I don't have any special privileges... when I view the Google group, I
>> don't see a "Members" page at all and no where to invite anyone else. All I
>> can access is a link "My membership settings".
>>
>> --- nadeem
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Dec 19, 2021 at 3:49 PM Robby Findler 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> When I follow the link at the bottom of one of these messages, click on
>>> members, I see an "add members" button and clicking on it gives me a place
>>> to add email addresses. I didn't actually add email addresses to the list
>>> and try to add them, and I might have already had special privileges on
>>> this list so that might not have been the most useful test.
>>>
>>> Robby
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Dec 19, 2021 at 11:32 AM Sage Gerard 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Alright, thanks to all of you for the quick replies. As of this
 writing, the list has been reconfigured to create an explicit perimeter
 between the non-members and members. The public can no longer let
 themselves in.

 Not totally out of the woods yet.

1. Someone please confirm if you can invite others using Members
page -> "Add Member". If not, then please follow up with me.
2. This model can be compromised by someone going rogue and
inviting a bunch of spammers. I'm expecting that our communal trust is 
 high
enough to make this unlikely.

 Considering the risk profile seems less scary, disregard request to
 delete my emails. :)
 On 12/18/21 3:02 PM, Matthias Felleisen wrote:


 +2! And many thanks. (I was personally spared this spam until very
 recently. No clue why)

 — Matthias




 On Dec 18, 2021, at 2:55 PM, Robby Findler 
 wrote:

 +1! Thank you.

 Robby

 On Sat, Dec 18, 2021 at 1:43 PM Matthew Flatt 
 wrote:

> The "members" option sounds right to me. Thanks for tracking down a way
> to improve the situation!
>
> At Sat, 18 Dec 2021 19:35:23 +, Sage Gerard wrote:
> > Core team,
> >
> > Sam asked me to issue bans for a troublesome spammer. I've done so,
> even
> > just today. I understand I need quorum for larger decisions. This is
> why
> > I have not yet reconfigured the list to permanently stop the spammer.
> > After researching the problem further, I need your urgent attention.
> >
> > I found that the spam messages sometimes link to other Google group
> > posts affected by the spammer. A recent trail leads to a
> > comp.lang.python Google message in 2017. I suspect that email
> addresses
> > are scraped in unmoderated lists that freely hand out membership.
> After
> > checking the list settings, I found that this is one of those lists.
> I
> > hypothesize that our email addresses are being scraped and
> > cross-referenced for use in other unmoderated lists.
> >
> > It's one thing to flatly complain about a spammer on this list, and
> > another to willingly maintain a transmission vector. We need to stop
> > automatically handing out group membership with our current
> settings. We
> > can have  issue list memberships. I need you all to fill in
> the
> > blank with "moderators" or "members." I'll translate the settings
> > accordingly.
> >
> > Given the holidays, I respect your time. Please reciprocate with
> respect
> > for the urgency this problem creates. I will revoke my own mailing
> list
> > privileges and membership in three weeks, on January 8th, 2022. I
> will
> > leave the settings however they read at the time to prevent
> > interruption, 

Re: [racket-users] Core Team: I need you decide what I should do about the spammer.

[Nadeem Abdul Hamid]

In other Google groups that I'm on, when I view the group, the links in the
left bar read "Conversations", "Members", "About", "My membership
settings". But in the Racket Users, there isn't a link to the "Members"
list.

On Sun, Dec 19, 2021 at 5:24 PM Sage Gerard  wrote:

> Looks like I scoped invitation powers to group managers, not members.
> Checking on this.
>
>
> Sent from ProtonMail mobile
>
>
>
>  Original Message 
> On Dec 19, 2021, 4:17 PM, Nadeem Abdul Hamid < nad...@acm.org> wrote:
>
>
> I don't have any special privileges... when I view the Google group, I
> don't see a "Members" page at all and no where to invite anyone else. All I
> can access is a link "My membership settings".
>
> --- nadeem
>
>
> On Sun, Dec 19, 2021 at 3:49 PM Robby Findler 
> wrote:
>
>> When I follow the link at the bottom of one of these messages, click on
>> members, I see an "add members" button and clicking on it gives me a place
>> to add email addresses. I didn't actually add email addresses to the list
>> and try to add them, and I might have already had special privileges on
>> this list so that might not have been the most useful test.
>>
>> Robby
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Dec 19, 2021 at 11:32 AM Sage Gerard  wrote:
>>
>>> Alright, thanks to all of you for the quick replies. As of this writing,
>>> the list has been reconfigured to create an explicit perimeter between the
>>> non-members and members. The public can no longer let themselves in.
>>>
>>> Not totally out of the woods yet.
>>>
>>>1. Someone please confirm if you can invite others using Members
>>>page -> "Add Member". If not, then please follow up with me.
>>>2. This model can be compromised by someone going rogue and inviting
>>>a bunch of spammers. I'm expecting that our communal trust is high enough
>>>to make this unlikely.
>>>
>>> Considering the risk profile seems less scary, disregard request to
>>> delete my emails. :)
>>> On 12/18/21 3:02 PM, Matthias Felleisen wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> +2! And many thanks. (I was personally spared this spam until very
>>> recently. No clue why)
>>>
>>> — Matthias
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Dec 18, 2021, at 2:55 PM, Robby Findler 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> +1! Thank you.
>>>
>>> Robby
>>>
>>> On Sat, Dec 18, 2021 at 1:43 PM Matthew Flatt 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 The "members" option sounds right to me. Thanks for tracking down a way
 to improve the situation!

 At Sat, 18 Dec 2021 19:35:23 +, Sage Gerard wrote:
 > Core team,
 >
 > Sam asked me to issue bans for a troublesome spammer. I've done so,
 even
 > just today. I understand I need quorum for larger decisions. This is
 why
 > I have not yet reconfigured the list to permanently stop the spammer.
 > After researching the problem further, I need your urgent attention.
 >
 > I found that the spam messages sometimes link to other Google group
 > posts affected by the spammer. A recent trail leads to a
 > comp.lang.python Google message in 2017. I suspect that email
 addresses
 > are scraped in unmoderated lists that freely hand out membership.
 After
 > checking the list settings, I found that this is one of those lists. I
 > hypothesize that our email addresses are being scraped and
 > cross-referenced for use in other unmoderated lists.
 >
 > It's one thing to flatly complain about a spammer on this list, and
 > another to willingly maintain a transmission vector. We need to stop
 > automatically handing out group membership with our current settings.
 We
 > can have  issue list memberships. I need you all to fill in
 the
 > blank with "moderators" or "members." I'll translate the settings
 > accordingly.
 >
 > Given the holidays, I respect your time. Please reciprocate with
 respect
 > for the urgency this problem creates. I will revoke my own mailing
 list
 > privileges and membership in three weeks, on January 8th, 2022. I will
 > leave the settings however they read at the time to prevent
 > interruption, and request that own messages then be deleted to limit
 the
 > role my email address plays for the spammer.
 >
 > I am not volunteering to moderate membership applications, and I am
 not
 > commenting on how to verify the impact of possible email leaks.
 Between
 > the Discourse move and (majority?) perspective towards email, I'm not
 > sure how I would be useful doing either. If my opinion holds weight,
 I'd
 > advise the answer be "members" so that any available moderators can
 > focus on rule breakers while the community grows at a self-directed
 speed.
 >
 > Let me know, and thank you.
 >
 >
 >
 > --
 > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
 Groups
 > "Racket Users" group.
 > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
 send an
 

Re: [racket-users] Core Team: I need you decide what I should do about the spammer.

[Sage Gerard]

Looks like I scoped invitation powers to group managers, not members. Checking 
on this.

Sent from ProtonMail mobile

 Original Message 
On Dec 19, 2021, 4:17 PM, Nadeem Abdul Hamid wrote:

> I don't have any special privileges... when I view the Google group, I don't 
> see a "Members" page at all and no where to invite anyone else. All I can 
> access is a link "My membership settings".
>
> --- nadeem
>
> On Sun, Dec 19, 2021 at 3:49 PM Robby Findler  
> wrote:
>
>> When I follow the link at the bottom of one of these messages, click on 
>> members, I see an "add members" button and clicking on it gives me a place 
>> to add email addresses. I didn't actually add email addresses to the list 
>> and try to add them, and I might have already had special privileges on this 
>> list so that might not have been the most useful test.
>>
>> Robby
>>
>> On Sun, Dec 19, 2021 at 11:32 AM Sage Gerard  wrote:
>>
>>> Alright, thanks to all of you for the quick replies. As of this writing, 
>>> the list has been reconfigured to create an explicit perimeter between the 
>>> non-members and members. The public can no longer let themselves in.
>>>
>>> Not totally out of the woods yet.
>>>
>>> - Someone please confirm if you can invite others using Members page -> 
>>> "Add Member". If not, then please follow up with me.
>>> - This model can be compromised by someone going rogue and inviting a bunch 
>>> of spammers. I'm expecting that our communal trust is high enough to make 
>>> this unlikely.
>>>
>>> Considering the risk profile seems less scary, disregard request to delete 
>>> my emails. :)
>>>
>>> On 12/18/21 3:02 PM, Matthias Felleisen wrote:
>>>
 +2! And many thanks. (I was personally spared this spam until very 
 recently. No clue why)

 — Matthias

> On Dec 18, 2021, at 2:55 PM, Robby Findler  
> wrote:
>
> +1! Thank you.
>
> Robby
>
> On Sat, Dec 18, 2021 at 1:43 PM Matthew Flatt  wrote:
>
>> The "members" option sounds right to me. Thanks for tracking down a way
>> to improve the situation!
>>
>> At Sat, 18 Dec 2021 19:35:23 +, Sage Gerard wrote:
>>> Core team,
>>>
>>> Sam asked me to issue bans for a troublesome spammer. I've done so, even
>>> just today. I understand I need quorum for larger decisions. This is why
>>> I have not yet reconfigured the list to permanently stop the spammer.
>>> After researching the problem further, I need your urgent attention.
>>>
>>> I found that the spam messages sometimes link to other Google group
>>> posts affected by the spammer. A recent trail leads to a
>>> comp.lang.python Google message in 2017. I suspect that email addresses
>>> are scraped in unmoderated lists that freely hand out membership. After
>>> checking the list settings, I found that this is one of those lists. I
>>> hypothesize that our email addresses are being scraped and
>>> cross-referenced for use in other unmoderated lists.
>>>
>>> It's one thing to flatly complain about a spammer on this list, and
>>> another to willingly maintain a transmission vector. We need to stop
>>> automatically handing out group membership with our current settings. We
>>> can have  issue list memberships. I need you all to fill in the
>>> blank with "moderators" or "members." I'll translate the settings
>>> accordingly.
>>>
>>> Given the holidays, I respect your time. Please reciprocate with respect
>>> for the urgency this problem creates. I will revoke my own mailing list
>>> privileges and membership in three weeks, on January 8th, 2022. I will
>>> leave the settings however they read at the time to prevent
>>> interruption, and request that own messages then be deleted to limit the
>>> role my email address plays for the spammer.
>>>
>>> I am not volunteering to moderate membership applications, and I am not
>>> commenting on how to verify the impact of possible email leaks. Between
>>> the Discourse move and (majority?) perspective towards email, I'm not
>>> sure how I would be useful doing either. If my opinion holds weight, I'd
>>> advise the answer be "members" so that any available moderators can
>>> focus on rule breakers while the community grows at a self-directed 
>>> speed.
>>>
>>> Let me know, and thank you.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>> Groups
>>> "Racket Users" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
>>> an
>>> email to 
>>> [racket-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com](mailto:racket-users%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com).
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/5fa6a8bb-88e4-37c6-f0b9-2ed372bc
>>> 

Re: [racket-users] Core Team: I need you decide what I should do about the spammer.

[Nadeem Abdul Hamid]

I don't have any special privileges... when I view the Google group, I
don't see a "Members" page at all and no where to invite anyone else. All I
can access is a link "My membership settings".

--- nadeem


On Sun, Dec 19, 2021 at 3:49 PM Robby Findler 
wrote:

> When I follow the link at the bottom of one of these messages, click on
> members, I see an "add members" button and clicking on it gives me a place
> to add email addresses. I didn't actually add email addresses to the list
> and try to add them, and I might have already had special privileges on
> this list so that might not have been the most useful test.
>
> Robby
>
>
> On Sun, Dec 19, 2021 at 11:32 AM Sage Gerard  wrote:
>
>> Alright, thanks to all of you for the quick replies. As of this writing,
>> the list has been reconfigured to create an explicit perimeter between the
>> non-members and members. The public can no longer let themselves in.
>>
>> Not totally out of the woods yet.
>>
>>1. Someone please confirm if you can invite others using Members page
>>-> "Add Member". If not, then please follow up with me.
>>2. This model can be compromised by someone going rogue and inviting
>>a bunch of spammers. I'm expecting that our communal trust is high enough
>>to make this unlikely.
>>
>> Considering the risk profile seems less scary, disregard request to
>> delete my emails. :)
>> On 12/18/21 3:02 PM, Matthias Felleisen wrote:
>>
>>
>> +2! And many thanks. (I was personally spared this spam until very
>> recently. No clue why)
>>
>> — Matthias
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Dec 18, 2021, at 2:55 PM, Robby Findler 
>> wrote:
>>
>> +1! Thank you.
>>
>> Robby
>>
>> On Sat, Dec 18, 2021 at 1:43 PM Matthew Flatt  wrote:
>>
>>> The "members" option sounds right to me. Thanks for tracking down a way
>>> to improve the situation!
>>>
>>> At Sat, 18 Dec 2021 19:35:23 +, Sage Gerard wrote:
>>> > Core team,
>>> >
>>> > Sam asked me to issue bans for a troublesome spammer. I've done so,
>>> even
>>> > just today. I understand I need quorum for larger decisions. This is
>>> why
>>> > I have not yet reconfigured the list to permanently stop the spammer.
>>> > After researching the problem further, I need your urgent attention.
>>> >
>>> > I found that the spam messages sometimes link to other Google group
>>> > posts affected by the spammer. A recent trail leads to a
>>> > comp.lang.python Google message in 2017. I suspect that email addresses
>>> > are scraped in unmoderated lists that freely hand out membership. After
>>> > checking the list settings, I found that this is one of those lists. I
>>> > hypothesize that our email addresses are being scraped and
>>> > cross-referenced for use in other unmoderated lists.
>>> >
>>> > It's one thing to flatly complain about a spammer on this list, and
>>> > another to willingly maintain a transmission vector. We need to stop
>>> > automatically handing out group membership with our current settings.
>>> We
>>> > can have  issue list memberships. I need you all to fill in the
>>> > blank with "moderators" or "members." I'll translate the settings
>>> > accordingly.
>>> >
>>> > Given the holidays, I respect your time. Please reciprocate with
>>> respect
>>> > for the urgency this problem creates. I will revoke my own mailing list
>>> > privileges and membership in three weeks, on January 8th, 2022. I will
>>> > leave the settings however they read at the time to prevent
>>> > interruption, and request that own messages then be deleted to limit
>>> the
>>> > role my email address plays for the spammer.
>>> >
>>> > I am not volunteering to moderate membership applications, and I am not
>>> > commenting on how to verify the impact of possible email leaks. Between
>>> > the Discourse move and (majority?) perspective towards email, I'm not
>>> > sure how I would be useful doing either. If my opinion holds weight,
>>> I'd
>>> > advise the answer be "members" so that any available moderators can
>>> > focus on rule breakers while the community grows at a self-directed
>>> speed.
>>> >
>>> > Let me know, and thank you.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups
>>> > "Racket Users" group.
>>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>> an
>>> > email to racket-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>> > To view this discussion on the web visit
>>> >
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/5fa6a8bb-88e4-37c6-f0b9-2ed372bc
>>> > e8fe%40sagegerard.com.
>>>
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups "Racket Users" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>> an email to racket-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/20211218124300.343%40sirmail.smtps.cs.utah.edu
>>> .
>>>
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you 

Re: [racket-users] Core Team: I need you decide what I should do about the spammer.

[Robby Findler]

When I follow the link at the bottom of one of these messages, click on
members, I see an "add members" button and clicking on it gives me a place
to add email addresses. I didn't actually add email addresses to the list
and try to add them, and I might have already had special privileges on
this list so that might not have been the most useful test.

Robby


On Sun, Dec 19, 2021 at 11:32 AM Sage Gerard  wrote:

> Alright, thanks to all of you for the quick replies. As of this writing,
> the list has been reconfigured to create an explicit perimeter between the
> non-members and members. The public can no longer let themselves in.
>
> Not totally out of the woods yet.
>
>1. Someone please confirm if you can invite others using Members page
>-> "Add Member". If not, then please follow up with me.
>2. This model can be compromised by someone going rogue and inviting a
>bunch of spammers. I'm expecting that our communal trust is high enough to
>make this unlikely.
>
> Considering the risk profile seems less scary, disregard request to delete
> my emails. :)
> On 12/18/21 3:02 PM, Matthias Felleisen wrote:
>
>
> +2! And many thanks. (I was personally spared this spam until very
> recently. No clue why)
>
> — Matthias
>
>
>
>
> On Dec 18, 2021, at 2:55 PM, Robby Findler 
> wrote:
>
> +1! Thank you.
>
> Robby
>
> On Sat, Dec 18, 2021 at 1:43 PM Matthew Flatt  wrote:
>
>> The "members" option sounds right to me. Thanks for tracking down a way
>> to improve the situation!
>>
>> At Sat, 18 Dec 2021 19:35:23 +, Sage Gerard wrote:
>> > Core team,
>> >
>> > Sam asked me to issue bans for a troublesome spammer. I've done so, even
>> > just today. I understand I need quorum for larger decisions. This is why
>> > I have not yet reconfigured the list to permanently stop the spammer.
>> > After researching the problem further, I need your urgent attention.
>> >
>> > I found that the spam messages sometimes link to other Google group
>> > posts affected by the spammer. A recent trail leads to a
>> > comp.lang.python Google message in 2017. I suspect that email addresses
>> > are scraped in unmoderated lists that freely hand out membership. After
>> > checking the list settings, I found that this is one of those lists. I
>> > hypothesize that our email addresses are being scraped and
>> > cross-referenced for use in other unmoderated lists.
>> >
>> > It's one thing to flatly complain about a spammer on this list, and
>> > another to willingly maintain a transmission vector. We need to stop
>> > automatically handing out group membership with our current settings. We
>> > can have  issue list memberships. I need you all to fill in the
>> > blank with "moderators" or "members." I'll translate the settings
>> > accordingly.
>> >
>> > Given the holidays, I respect your time. Please reciprocate with respect
>> > for the urgency this problem creates. I will revoke my own mailing list
>> > privileges and membership in three weeks, on January 8th, 2022. I will
>> > leave the settings however they read at the time to prevent
>> > interruption, and request that own messages then be deleted to limit the
>> > role my email address plays for the spammer.
>> >
>> > I am not volunteering to moderate membership applications, and I am not
>> > commenting on how to verify the impact of possible email leaks. Between
>> > the Discourse move and (majority?) perspective towards email, I'm not
>> > sure how I would be useful doing either. If my opinion holds weight, I'd
>> > advise the answer be "members" so that any available moderators can
>> > focus on rule breakers while the community grows at a self-directed
>> speed.
>> >
>> > Let me know, and thank you.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>> Groups
>> > "Racket Users" group.
>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>> an
>> > email to racket-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> > To view this discussion on the web visit
>> >
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/5fa6a8bb-88e4-37c6-f0b9-2ed372bc
>> > e8fe%40sagegerard.com.
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "Racket Users" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to racket-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/20211218124300.343%40sirmail.smtps.cs.utah.edu
>> .
>>
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Racket Users" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to racket-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/CAL3TdOMCXH4Zio1%2B96Nj_Zgj2vByetG-%3D8i93%3DLYjTpaBrw8DA%40mail.gmail.com
> 

RE: [racket-users] Surprising but convenient

[Jacob Jozef]

Thanks to Bruce and Sage. I work with DrRacket 8.3 CS under windows 10. Indeed, I can see that during closing the port before deleting the file, there is activity on the output device for some time. Probably because of flushing buffers. I have experimented a bit with output of 1 GB to a 16 GB USB stick. I have no idea where buffers with capacity of 1 GB or more may reside. I can see that after deletion and closing, the 1GB is freed.  Jos From: Bruce O'NeelSent: domingo, 19 de diciembre de 2021 18:19To: Sage GerardCc: racket-users@googlegroups.comSubject: Re: [racket-users] Surprising but convenient HI, It is a touch unclear what you mean by deleting the file and on which OS you are using. On Linux and similar OSes  the rm command just calls the unlink system call.  This removes the file from the directory and if the link count is now 0 then the file is removed from disk.  But this last part happens only if the file is not open.  If it open you get a situation where it is still on disk but not visible in any directory. As long as the process does not close the file then all is good.  You can write and read to the file with no problems.  But when the file is closed then the file will disappear from disk. More than once in my life there has been the "where did all the disk space go?" conversation that has resulted in a multi megabyte, multi gigabyte or now multi terabyte file being found and deleted.  Without figuring out that it was open and therefore won't go away until some process is killed as well. Now none of the above could apply to Racket.  One would need to know the gory details of how file writing is implemented.   But this would explain what you see. cheers bruce  On 2021-12-19T18:08:13.000+01:00, Sage Gerard  wrote:If I understand this correctly, there's a difference between deleting a reference to 50 GB (like an inode), and actually writing 50 GB.When you write to an output port, you are writing to a buffer in memory. This prevents the slow downs you've witnessed, because storage mediums are comparably slow. "Flushing" with (flush-output) or plumbers on port closure actually sends bytes outside of the process.I wouldn't try using the same port after deleting a file. If Racket and the operating system initially agreed on a file descriptor that is now invalid, then you'll need to address that by opening a new port.Note that I don't Racket's implementation details here. I'm recalling what I've seen happen across languages.On 12/19/21 11:50 AM, Jacob Jozef wrote:Hi I start a thread printing a file. When the file will be very long (say 50 GB) the thread takes too much time and I kill it when it takes more time than I want to permit. Outside the thread I clean up. Closing the output-port before deleting the file takes much time. But to my surprise I can delete the file before closing the port, which hardly takes time.Nice.Is this intended behaviour?After deleting the file, the port remains open, but writing to it does nothing. Correct? Thanks, Jos-- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Racket Users" group.To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to racket-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/EEC04679-E526-4215-B4DE-502B5B10567A%40hxcore.ol.-- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Racket Users" group.To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to racket-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/076c95f8-1d49-4294-9df8-73b1b39b1f01%40sagegerard.com.-- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Racket Users" group.To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to racket-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/59d8fba7f9183f7acfabd8f7689d032b%40mail.infomaniak.com. 



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Re: [racket-users] Core Team: I need you decide what I should do about the spammer.

[Sage Gerard]

Alright, thanks to all of you for the quick replies. As of this writing, the 
list has been reconfigured to create an explicit perimeter between the 
non-members and members. The public can no longer let themselves in.

Not totally out of the woods yet.

- Someone please confirm if you can invite others using Members page -> "Add 
Member". If not, then please follow up with me.
- This model can be compromised by someone going rogue and inviting a bunch of 
spammers. I'm expecting that our communal trust is high enough to make this 
unlikely.

Considering the risk profile seems less scary, disregard request to delete my 
emails. :)

On 12/18/21 3:02 PM, Matthias Felleisen wrote:

> +2! And many thanks. (I was personally spared this spam until very recently. 
> No clue why)
>
> — Matthias
>
>> On Dec 18, 2021, at 2:55 PM, Robby Findler  wrote:
>>
>> +1! Thank you.
>>
>> Robby
>>
>> On Sat, Dec 18, 2021 at 1:43 PM Matthew Flatt  wrote:
>>
>>> The "members" option sounds right to me. Thanks for tracking down a way
>>> to improve the situation!
>>>
>>> At Sat, 18 Dec 2021 19:35:23 +, Sage Gerard wrote:
 Core team,

 Sam asked me to issue bans for a troublesome spammer. I've done so, even
 just today. I understand I need quorum for larger decisions. This is why
 I have not yet reconfigured the list to permanently stop the spammer.
 After researching the problem further, I need your urgent attention.

 I found that the spam messages sometimes link to other Google group
 posts affected by the spammer. A recent trail leads to a
 comp.lang.python Google message in 2017. I suspect that email addresses
 are scraped in unmoderated lists that freely hand out membership. After
 checking the list settings, I found that this is one of those lists. I
 hypothesize that our email addresses are being scraped and
 cross-referenced for use in other unmoderated lists.

 It's one thing to flatly complain about a spammer on this list, and
 another to willingly maintain a transmission vector. We need to stop
 automatically handing out group membership with our current settings. We
 can have  issue list memberships. I need you all to fill in the
 blank with "moderators" or "members." I'll translate the settings
 accordingly.

 Given the holidays, I respect your time. Please reciprocate with respect
 for the urgency this problem creates. I will revoke my own mailing list
 privileges and membership in three weeks, on January 8th, 2022. I will
 leave the settings however they read at the time to prevent
 interruption, and request that own messages then be deleted to limit the
 role my email address plays for the spammer.

 I am not volunteering to moderate membership applications, and I am not
 commenting on how to verify the impact of possible email leaks. Between
 the Discourse move and (majority?) perspective towards email, I'm not
 sure how I would be useful doing either. If my opinion holds weight, I'd
 advise the answer be "members" so that any available moderators can
 focus on rule breakers while the community grows at a self-directed speed.

 Let me know, and thank you.



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Re: [racket-users] Surprising but convenient

[Bruce O'Neel]

HI,

It is a touch unclear what you mean by deleting the file and on which
OS you are using.

On Linux and similar OSes  the rm command just calls the unlink
system call.  This removes the file from the directory and if the
link count is now 0 then the file is removed from disk.  But this
last part happens only if the file is not open.  If it open you get a
situation where it is still on disk but not visible in any directory.

As long as the process does not close the file then all is good.  You
can write and read to the file with no problems.  But when the file
is closed then the file will disappear from disk.

More than once in my life there has been the "where did all the disk
space go?" conversation that has resulted in a multi megabyte, multi
gigabyte or now multi terabyte file being found and deleted.  Without
figuring out that it was open and therefore won't go away until some
process is killed as well.

Now none of the above could apply to Racket.  One would need to know
the gory details of how file writing is implemented.  

But this would explain what you see.

cheers

bruce

On 2021-12-19T18:08:13.000+01:00, Sage Gerard 
wrote:

> If I understand this correctly, there's a difference between
> deleting a _reference_ to 50 GB (like an inode), and actually
> writing 50 GB.
> 
> When you write to an output port, you are writing to a buffer in
> memory. This prevents the slow downs you've witnessed, because
> storage mediums are comparably slow. "Flushing" with (flush-output)
> or plumbers on port closure actually sends bytes outside of the
> process.
> 
> I wouldn't try using the same port after deleting a file. If Racket
> and the operating system initially agreed on a file descriptor that
> is now invalid, then you'll need to address that by opening a new
> port.
> 
> Note that I don't Racket's implementation details here. I'm
> recalling what I've seen happen across languages.
> 
> On 12/19/21 11:50 AM, Jacob Jozef wrote:
> 
>>  Hi
>>  
>>   
>>  
>>  I start a thread printing a file. When the file will be very long
>>  (say 50 GB) the thread takes too much time and I kill it when it
>>  takes more time than I want to permit. Outside the thread I clean
>>  up. Closing the output-port before deleting the file takes much
>>  time. But to my surprise I can delete the file before closing the
>>  port, which hardly takes time.
>>  
>>  Nice.
>>  
>>  Is this intended behaviour?
>>  
>>  After deleting the file, the port remains open, but writing to it
>>  does nothing. Correct?
>>  
>>   
>>  
>>  Thanks, Jos
>>  
>>   
>>  
>>   
>>  
>>   
>>  
>>   
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