Re: [RDA-L] The meaning of 372 Field of Activity

2013-11-27 Thread Patricia Juez
 Hello,

I'd like show us one Authority Record of our virtual library, where we are 
using 372 Field of Activity and how the users see it in the web. Maybe, this 
may seem simple because it isn't complicated, but for us is effective.

In this link you see it in differents formats 
http://www.larramendi.es/i18n/consulta_aut/registro.cmd?control=POLI20090013810

Best regards

Patricia Juez

Patricia Juez García
patriciaj...@larramendi.esmailto:patriciaj...@larramendi.es

 [cid:367170411@27112013-23C7]  Fundación Ignacio Larramendi
C/ Claudio Coello 123, 1ªpl
28006 Madrid
Tel. 91 432 10 42
Fax. 91 432 11 13
www.larramendi.eshttp://www.larramendi.es/
Certificado ISO 9001.

No imprimir si no es necesario. Protejamos el Medio Ambiente



De: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access 
[mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] En nombre de Robert Bratton
Enviado el: jueves, 14 de noviembre de 2013 22:41
Para: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA
Asunto: Re: [RDA-L] The meaning of 372 Field of Activity

Hi John,

I have run into situations where I thought a corporate body or personal should 
be a field of activity. If someone has written multiple books about the U.S. 
Supreme Court or biographies of George Washington or critical studies of 
William Shakespeare, why wouldn't we use the corresponding  name AAPs as one of 
the facets of their field of activity?  I believe current NACO policy is that 
we *not* do this, but we do it for geographic entities and political 
jurisdictions -- how are they any different?

So long as this data element is defined as field or fields of endeavour, area 
or areas of expertise, etc. where else would we record it?

I think most people do need both a Field of activity and a Profession/Occupation

372  $a Copyright $a Intellectual property $2 lcsh
374  $a Lawyers $a Authors $2 lcsh


372  $a International law $a Terrorism--Prevention--Law and legislation $2 lcsh
374  $a Law teachers $a College teachers $a Authors $2 lcsh


372  $a Human rights $2 lcsh
374  $a Human rights workers $2 lcsh

I agree that ideally the Field of activity shouldn't be specific to the one 
resource you're basing the AAP on, but should broadly cover all of the 
person's/body's output.

I think the problem is that the data element is called Field of activity.

Robert



On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 3:21 PM, John Hostage 
host...@law.harvard.edumailto:host...@law.harvard.edu wrote:
I think we've gone way overboard in the application of 372 and 374.  In most 
cases, a person doesn't need both.  Some people seem to have gotten much too 
specific in these fields.  An authority record does not have to be the same as 
a Wikipedia article.  What purpose does that serve?  The examples in RDA 9.15 
are fairly general.

I wouldn't say Stalin was a politician.  I would say he was a dictator and a 
head of state.  If you're looking for another class-of-persons term, you could 
use Communists, but communism isn't a field of activity, in my opinion.

Similarly, I have seen authority records for corporate bodies where people want 
to make very narrow attributes.  To use a made-up example, if there were a 
heading National Association of Skydivers. Board of Directors, some would add 
a 372 for National Association of Skydivers-Administration.  I would question 
whether such a subordinate body needs any such field, but if so, I think it 
should be Skydiving, which would have been on the parent record.  Does anyone 
think it makes sense to use a corporate body name as a field of activity?

--
John Hostage
Senior Continuing Resources Cataloger //
Harvard Library--Information and Technical Services //
Langdell Hall 194 //
Cambridge, MA 02138
host...@law.harvard.edumailto:host...@law.harvard.edu
+(1)(617) 495-3974 (voice)
+(1)(617) 496-4409 (fax)

From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access 
[mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CAmailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] On 
Behalf Of Santos Muñoz, Ricardo
Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2013 05:07

To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CAmailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA
Subject: [RDA-L] The meaning of 372 Field of Activity

Hello again.

I'm wrangling with some of the 3xx fields for authority records, in order to 
produce some policy for using some of them in a coherent and fruitful way. I'm 
facing some problems, and neither the MARC field itself, nor RDA instructions, 
nor the use I've seen out there gives me a clear view.

The main bump in the road is field 372. Let's say I'm working on Joseph Stalin. 
I'd like record and retrieve him as a politician (374), as a member of 
Communist Party of the Soviet Union (373), but I'd like to relate him with 
communism. So, recording Communism in 372 seems perfect for that purpose. But 
I would also record Comunism in 372 for a scholar historian on communism.

Summing up, if I record 372 Punk-rock, Am I expressing that the guy is a 
musician (374), 

Re: [RDA-L] The meaning of 372 Field of Activity

2013-11-27 Thread Moore, Richard
Robert

 

I once asked a colleague at LC, what they thought about a person's name being 
recorded as the field of activity for a conference about the person; the reply 
was Like you, I think it looks a little odd and probably is best handled by 
subject headings, but I don't see anything that would prevent its use.

 

We try to use topical terms when we can, but I've had no problem advising my 
cataloguers that the name of a corporate body or person could be appropriate in 
the situations you describe. The name heading for William Shakespeare appears 
in 372 in several LC/NAF NARs.

 

Regards

Richard

_

Richard Moore 

Authority Control Team Manager 

The British Library

  

Tel.: +44 (0)1937 546806   

E-mail: richard.mo...@bl.uk 

 

 



De: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access 
[mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] En nombre de Robert Bratton
Enviado el: jueves, 14 de noviembre de 2013 22:41
Para: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA
Asunto: Re: [RDA-L] The meaning of 372 Field of Activity

Hi John,

I have run into situations where I thought a corporate body or personal should 
be a field of activity. If someone has written multiple books about the U.S. 
Supreme Court or biographies of George Washington or critical studies of 
William Shakespeare, why wouldn't we use the corresponding  name AAPs as one of 
the facets of their field of activity?  I believe current NACO policy is that 
we *not* do this, but we do it for geographic entities and political 
jurisdictions -- how are they any different?

So long as this data element is defined as field or fields of endeavour, area 
or areas of expertise, etc. where else would we record it?

I think most people do need both a Field of activity and a Profession/Occupation

372  $a Copyright $a Intellectual property $2 lcsh
374  $a Lawyers $a Authors $2 lcsh


372  $a International law $a Terrorism--Prevention--Law and legislation $2 lcsh
374  $a Law teachers $a College teachers $a Authors $2 lcsh


372  $a Human rights $2 lcsh
374  $a Human rights workers $2 lcsh

I agree that ideally the Field of activity shouldn't be specific to the one 
resource you're basing the AAP on, but should broadly cover all of the 
person's/body's output.

I think the problem is that the data element is called Field of activity. 

Robert

 

 

On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 3:21 PM, John Hostage host...@law.harvard.edu wrote:

I think we've gone way overboard in the application of 372 and 374.  In most 
cases, a person doesn't need both.  Some people seem to have gotten much too 
specific in these fields.  An authority record does not have to be the same as 
a Wikipedia article.  What purpose does that serve?  The examples in RDA 9.15 
are fairly general.  

 

I wouldn't say Stalin was a politician.  I would say he was a dictator and a 
head of state.  If you're looking for another class-of-persons term, you could 
use Communists, but communism isn't a field of activity, in my opinion.

 

Similarly, I have seen authority records for corporate bodies where people want 
to make very narrow attributes.  To use a made-up example, if there were a 
heading National Association of Skydivers. Board of Directors, some would add 
a 372 for National Association of Skydivers-Administration.  I would question 
whether such a subordinate body needs any such field, but if so, I think it 
should be Skydiving, which would have been on the parent record.  Does anyone 
think it makes sense to use a corporate body name as a field of activity?

 

--

John Hostage 

Senior Continuing Resources Cataloger //

Harvard Library--Information and Technical Services //

Langdell Hall 194 //

Cambridge, MA 02138 

host...@law.harvard.edu 

+(1)(617) 495-3974 (voice) 

+(1)(617) 496-4409 (fax)

 

From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access 
[mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] On Behalf Of Santos Muñoz, Ricardo
Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2013 05:07


To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA
Subject: [RDA-L] The meaning of 372 Field of Activity

 

Hello again. 

 

I'm wrangling with some of the 3xx fields for authority records, in order to 
produce some policy for using some of them in a coherent and fruitful way. I'm 
facing some problems, and neither the MARC field itself, nor RDA instructions, 
nor the use I've seen out there gives me a clear view. 

 

The main bump in the road is field 372. Let's say I'm working on Joseph Stalin. 
I'd like record and retrieve him as a politician (374), as a member of 
Communist Party of the Soviet Union (373), but I'd like to relate him with 
communism. So, recording Communism in 372 seems perfect for that purpose. But 
I would also record Comunism in 372 for a scholar historian on communism. 

 

Summing up, if I record 372 

[RDA-L] Remove GMD subfields (in Millenium Library Automation System)

2013-11-27 Thread Didem Ardanuc

Dear Colleagues,

I would like to ask a question about GMD removing process from 245 
responsibility area. We are using Millenium automation system and 
couldn't success to remove the subfield *_|h[electronic resource]_* 
statement.


Thank you in advance for your support and suggestions.

BR,
Didem Ardanuc

--
Didem ARDANUC (Ms.)
Head of AcquisitionsCataloguing Department
Middle East Technical University Library
Orta Dogu ve Teknik Universitesi Kutuphanesi
Universiteler Mahallesi
Dumlupinar Bulvari, No:1
06800
Ankara TURKEY
Phone: +90 312 210 27 83
Fax: +90 312 210 27 78
http://lib.metu.edu.tr/



Re: [RDA-L] The meaning of 372 Field of Activity

2013-11-27 Thread Benjamin A Abrahamse
I should add--I had no idea that Stevens and Einstein were born and died the 
same year until after I wrote this email. And I picked those two names more or 
less randomly.

Weird.

b

Benjamin Abrahamse
Cataloging Coordinator
Acquisitions and Discovery Enhancement
MIT Libraries
617-253-7137

From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access 
[mailto:RDA-L@listserv.lac-bac.gc.ca] On Behalf Of Benjamin A Abrahamse
Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2013 10:12 AM
To: RDA-L@listserv.lac-bac.gc.ca
Subject: Re: [RDA-L] The meaning of 372 Field of Activity

I wonder if a best practice in this situation would be--like we often do with 
biographical material--to add a 372 $a referring to the class of person that 
the individual represents as well?

[Made up examples:]

111 $a International Einstein Symposium
372 $a Einstein, Albert, 1879-1955 $2 naf
372 $a Physicists $2 lcsh

111 $a Wallace Stevens Society. $b Annual Conference
372 $a Stevens, Wallace, 1879-1955 $2 naf
372 $a Poets, American--20th century $2 lcsh


Benjamin Abrahamse
Cataloging Coordinator
Acquisitions and Discovery Enhancement
MIT Libraries
617-253-7137

From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access 
[mailto:RDA-L@listserv.lac-bac.gc.ca] On Behalf Of Moore, Richard
Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2013 6:57 AM
To: RDA-L@listserv.lac-bac.gc.camailto:RDA-L@listserv.lac-bac.gc.ca
Subject: Re: [RDA-L] The meaning of 372 Field of Activity

Robert

I once asked a colleague at LC, what they thought about a person’s name being 
recorded as the field of activity for a conference about the person; the reply 
was “Like you, I think it looks a little odd and probably is best handled by 
subject headings, but I don't see anything that would prevent its use”.

We try to use topical terms when we can, but I’ve had no problem advising my 
cataloguers that the name of a corporate body or person could be appropriate in 
the situations you describe. The name heading for William Shakespeare appears 
in 372 in several LC/NAF NARs.


Regards
Richard
_
Richard Moore
Authority Control Team Manager
The British Library

Tel.: +44 (0)1937 546806
E-mail: richard.mo...@bl.ukmailto:richard.mo...@bl.uk



De: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access 
[mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] En nombre de Robert Bratton
Enviado el: jueves, 14 de noviembre de 2013 22:41
Para: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CAmailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA
Asunto: Re: [RDA-L] The meaning of 372 Field of Activity
Hi John,
I have run into situations where I thought a corporate body or personal should 
be a field of activity. If someone has written multiple books about the U.S. 
Supreme Court or biographies of George Washington or critical studies of 
William Shakespeare, why wouldn't we use the corresponding  name AAPs as one of 
the facets of their field of activity?  I believe current NACO policy is that 
we *not* do this, but we do it for geographic entities and political 
jurisdictions -- how are they any different?
So long as this data element is defined as field or fields of endeavour, area 
or areas of expertise, etc. where else would we record it?
I think most people do need both a Field of activity and a Profession/Occupation

372  $a Copyright $a Intellectual property $2 lcsh
374  $a Lawyers $a Authors $2 lcsh


372  $a International law $a Terrorism--Prevention--Law and legislation $2 lcsh
374  $a Law teachers $a College teachers $a Authors $2 lcsh


372  $a Human rights $2 lcsh
374  $a Human rights workers $2 lcsh
I agree that ideally the Field of activity shouldn't be specific to the one 
resource you're basing the AAP on, but should broadly cover all of the 
person's/body's output.
I think the problem is that the data element is called Field of activity.
Robert


On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 3:21 PM, John Hostage 
host...@law.harvard.edumailto:host...@law.harvard.edu wrote:
I think we’ve gone way overboard in the application of 372 and 374.  In most 
cases, a person doesn’t need both.  Some people seem to have gotten much too 
specific in these fields.  An authority record does not have to be the same as 
a Wikipedia article.  What purpose does that serve?  The examples in RDA 9.15 
are fairly general.

I wouldn’t say Stalin was a politician.  I would say he was a dictator and a 
head of state.  If you’re looking for another class-of-persons term, you could 
use Communists, but communism isn’t a field of activity, in my opinion.

Similarly, I have seen authority records for corporate bodies where people want 
to make very narrow attributes.  To use a made-up example, if there were a 
heading “National Association of Skydivers. Board of Directors”, some would add 
a 372 for “National Association of Skydivers—Administration.”  I would question 
whether such a subordinate body needs any such field, but if so, I think it 
should be “Skydiving”, which would have been on the 

Re: [RDA-L] The meaning of 372 Field of Activity

2013-11-27 Thread Moore, Richard
Benjamin

 

If I were writing the best practice guidelines, I’d be inclined to use 
“Physics” and “Poetry” in 372; the Einstein Symposium is (I assume) concnered 
with Einstein, and with Physics.

 

We’ve tried to give our cataloguers a bit of guidance on the use of LCSH in 
NARs, in the BL Guide to RDA Name Authority Records, which can be found under 
Tools-Workflows-Global Workflows in the RDA Toolkit. A scetion at the end is 
called “LCSH in Name Authority Records”.

 

Regards

Richard

_

Richard Moore 

Authority Control Team Manager 

The British Library

  

Tel.: +44 (0)1937 546806   

E-mail: richard.mo...@bl.uk   

 

 

From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access 
[mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] On Behalf Of Benjamin A Abrahamse
Sent: 27 November 2013 15:12
To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA
Subject: Re: [RDA-L] The meaning of 372 Field of Activity

 

I wonder if a best practice in this situation would be--like we often do with 
biographical material--to add a 372 $a referring to the class of person that 
the individual represents as well?

 

[Made up examples:]

 

111 $a International Einstein Symposium

372 $a Einstein, Albert, 1879-1955 $2 naf 

372 $a Physicists $2 lcsh

 

111 $a Wallace Stevens Society. $b Annual Conference

372 $a Stevens, Wallace, 1879-1955 $2 naf

372 $a Poets, American--20th century $2 lcsh

 

 

Benjamin Abrahamse

Cataloging Coordinator

Acquisitions and Discovery Enhancement

MIT Libraries

617-253-7137

 

From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access 
[mailto:RDA-L@listserv.lac-bac.gc.ca] On Behalf Of Moore, Richard
Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2013 6:57 AM
To: RDA-L@listserv.lac-bac.gc.ca
Subject: Re: [RDA-L] The meaning of 372 Field of Activity

 

Robert

 

I once asked a colleague at LC, what they thought about a person’s name being 
recorded as the field of activity for a conference about the person; the reply 
was “Like you, I think it looks a little odd and probably is best handled by 
subject headings, but I don't see anything that would prevent its use”.

 

We try to use topical terms when we can, but I’ve had no problem advising my 
cataloguers that the name of a corporate body or person could be appropriate in 
the situations you describe. The name heading for William Shakespeare appears 
in 372 in several LC/NAF NARs.

 

 

Regards

Richard

_

Richard Moore 

Authority Control Team Manager 

The British Library

  

Tel.: +44 (0)1937 546806   

E-mail: richard.mo...@bl.uk 

 

 



De: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access 
[mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] En nombre de Robert Bratton
Enviado el: jueves, 14 de noviembre de 2013 22:41
Para: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA
Asunto: Re: [RDA-L] The meaning of 372 Field of Activity

Hi John,

I have run into situations where I thought a corporate body or personal should 
be a field of activity. If someone has written multiple books about the U.S. 
Supreme Court or biographies of George Washington or critical studies of 
William Shakespeare, why wouldn't we use the corresponding  name AAPs as one of 
the facets of their field of activity?  I believe current NACO policy is that 
we *not* do this, but we do it for geographic entities and political 
jurisdictions -- how are they any different?

So long as this data element is defined as field or fields of endeavour, area 
or areas of expertise, etc. where else would we record it?

I think most people do need both a Field of activity and a Profession/Occupation

372  $a Copyright $a Intellectual property $2 lcsh
374  $a Lawyers $a Authors $2 lcsh


372  $a International law $a Terrorism--Prevention--Law and legislation $2 lcsh
374  $a Law teachers $a College teachers $a Authors $2 lcsh


372  $a Human rights $2 lcsh
374  $a Human rights workers $2 lcsh

I agree that ideally the Field of activity shouldn't be specific to the one 
resource you're basing the AAP on, but should broadly cover all of the 
person's/body's output.

I think the problem is that the data element is called Field of activity. 

Robert

 

 

On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 3:21 PM, John Hostage host...@law.harvard.edu wrote:

I think we’ve gone way overboard in the application of 372 and 374.  In most 
cases, a person doesn’t need both.  Some people seem to have gotten much too 
specific in these fields.  An authority record does not have to be the same as 
a Wikipedia article.  What purpose does that serve?  The examples in RDA 9.15 
are fairly general.  

 

I wouldn’t say Stalin was a politician.  I would say he was a dictator and a 
head of state.  If you’re looking for another class-of-persons term, you could 
use 

Re: [RDA-L] The meaning of 372 Field of Activity

2013-11-27 Thread Benjamin A Abrahamse
Someone pointed out to me off-list that $y 20th century cannot be directly 
applied to headings for classes of persons. My apology for the error.

--Ben

Benjamin Abrahamse
Cataloging Coordinator
Acquisitions and Discovery Enhancement
MIT Libraries
617-253-7137

From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access 
[mailto:RDA-L@listserv.lac-bac.gc.ca] On Behalf Of Benjamin A Abrahamse
Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2013 10:12 AM
To: RDA-L@listserv.lac-bac.gc.ca
Subject: Re: [RDA-L] The meaning of 372 Field of Activity

I wonder if a best practice in this situation would be--like we often do with 
biographical material--to add a 372 $a referring to the class of person that 
the individual represents as well?

[Made up examples:]

111 $a International Einstein Symposium
372 $a Einstein, Albert, 1879-1955 $2 naf
372 $a Physicists $2 lcsh

111 $a Wallace Stevens Society. $b Annual Conference
372 $a Stevens, Wallace, 1879-1955 $2 naf
372 $a Poets, American--20th century $2 lcsh


Benjamin Abrahamse
Cataloging Coordinator
Acquisitions and Discovery Enhancement
MIT Libraries
617-253-7137

From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access 
[mailto:RDA-L@listserv.lac-bac.gc.ca] On Behalf Of Moore, Richard
Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2013 6:57 AM
To: RDA-L@listserv.lac-bac.gc.camailto:RDA-L@listserv.lac-bac.gc.ca
Subject: Re: [RDA-L] The meaning of 372 Field of Activity

Robert

I once asked a colleague at LC, what they thought about a person’s name being 
recorded as the field of activity for a conference about the person; the reply 
was “Like you, I think it looks a little odd and probably is best handled by 
subject headings, but I don't see anything that would prevent its use”.

We try to use topical terms when we can, but I’ve had no problem advising my 
cataloguers that the name of a corporate body or person could be appropriate in 
the situations you describe. The name heading for William Shakespeare appears 
in 372 in several LC/NAF NARs.


Regards
Richard
_
Richard Moore
Authority Control Team Manager
The British Library

Tel.: +44 (0)1937 546806
E-mail: richard.mo...@bl.ukmailto:richard.mo...@bl.uk



De: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access 
[mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] En nombre de Robert Bratton
Enviado el: jueves, 14 de noviembre de 2013 22:41
Para: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CAmailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA
Asunto: Re: [RDA-L] The meaning of 372 Field of Activity
Hi John,
I have run into situations where I thought a corporate body or personal should 
be a field of activity. If someone has written multiple books about the U.S. 
Supreme Court or biographies of George Washington or critical studies of 
William Shakespeare, why wouldn't we use the corresponding  name AAPs as one of 
the facets of their field of activity?  I believe current NACO policy is that 
we *not* do this, but we do it for geographic entities and political 
jurisdictions -- how are they any different?
So long as this data element is defined as field or fields of endeavour, area 
or areas of expertise, etc. where else would we record it?
I think most people do need both a Field of activity and a Profession/Occupation

372  $a Copyright $a Intellectual property $2 lcsh
374  $a Lawyers $a Authors $2 lcsh


372  $a International law $a Terrorism--Prevention--Law and legislation $2 lcsh
374  $a Law teachers $a College teachers $a Authors $2 lcsh


372  $a Human rights $2 lcsh
374  $a Human rights workers $2 lcsh
I agree that ideally the Field of activity shouldn't be specific to the one 
resource you're basing the AAP on, but should broadly cover all of the 
person's/body's output.
I think the problem is that the data element is called Field of activity.
Robert


On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 3:21 PM, John Hostage 
host...@law.harvard.edumailto:host...@law.harvard.edu wrote:
I think we’ve gone way overboard in the application of 372 and 374.  In most 
cases, a person doesn’t need both.  Some people seem to have gotten much too 
specific in these fields.  An authority record does not have to be the same as 
a Wikipedia article.  What purpose does that serve?  The examples in RDA 9.15 
are fairly general.

I wouldn’t say Stalin was a politician.  I would say he was a dictator and a 
head of state.  If you’re looking for another class-of-persons term, you could 
use Communists, but communism isn’t a field of activity, in my opinion.

Similarly, I have seen authority records for corporate bodies where people want 
to make very narrow attributes.  To use a made-up example, if there were a 
heading “National Association of Skydivers. Board of Directors”, some would add 
a 372 for “National Association of Skydivers—Administration.”  I would question 
whether such a subordinate body needs any such field, but if so, I think it 
should be “Skydiving”, which would have been on the parent record.  Does anyone 
think 

Re: [RDA-L] RDA imprint revision

2013-11-27 Thread M. E.
J. McRee Elrod m...@slc.bc.ca wrote:

 Why would one wish to do that?  Nobody has suggested 264 1 $bGod for a
 rock. All we need is 264  2 for the seller of the rock.  Like
 manuscripts, equipment and naturally occurring objects are not
 published, and should have the appropriate 264 indicator for
 manufacturer and distributor.


Don't confuse RDA's production statement, which refers to man-made stuff,
with what might be similar statements in another universe for naturally
occurring objects.  RDA woefully lacks any direction on telling us to
forego 260/264-like statements for these objects--if that's the intent of
the standard.

Presumption through silence isn't good guidance.


 No they are not.  Much of RDA is very unclear, and not in accord with
 reality.


I disagree.  Some of it is unclear.  I have the same problems with parts of
AACR2.

-- 
Mark K. Ehlert
Minitex
http://www.minitex.umn.edu/


Re: [RDA-L] RDA imprint revision

2013-11-27 Thread M. E.
M. E. m.k.e.m...@gmail.com wrote:


 Don't confuse RDA's production statement, which refers to man-made
 stuff, with what might be similar statements in another universe for
 naturally occurring objects.


Thinking this over, I should qualify that the production statement would
also apply to natural objects that are made or converted into something
else by hand, such as a display--AACR2's resource as communication that I
brought up in a related thread on OLAC-L.  Again, a case of RDA not be more
clear on how to handle such things which can be important parts of some
collections.

-- 
Mark K. Ehlert
Minitex
http://www.minitex.umn.edu/


Re: [RDA-L] RDA imprint revision

2013-11-27 Thread J. McRee Elrod
Bernhard said:

RDA, to my knowledge, doesn't define the term, although why not?
I mean, in the light of RDA's ambitions...

In light of RDA's ambitions to be used outside the bibliographic
world, there certainly needs to be better provisions for objects.
  
Museums for example could use 264  0 for the artist who carved a
statue, and should be able to use 264  3 for the manufacturer of the
period telephone in its collection.  Museums have far more objects
than books, and RDA is very book centric, particularly in not
recognizing that objects may be manufactured or distributed, but are
not published in the public's understanding of that word.
  
When/if RDA is coded in Bibframe, bf: tags need to be specific for
producer, publisher, distributor, and manufacturer.

We are not in Alice's Wonderland, in which words may mean whatever we
want them to mean.  We are part of a larger culture in which words
have meanings, including publisher and published.

I suspect nobody on the JSC deals with the sorts of things which cross
Julie Moore's desk daily.


   __   __   J. McRee (Mac) Elrod (m...@slc.bc.ca)
  {__  |   / Special Libraries Cataloguing   HTTP://www.slc.bc.ca/
  ___} |__ \__


[RDA-L] Additional documents from JSC meeting

2013-11-27 Thread JSC Secretary
The follow-up documents listed below, based on discussions at the November
2013 JSC meeting, are available on the public website (
http://www.rda-jsc.org/workingnew.html):

6JSC/ISBD/Discussion/3/JSC response
6JSC/BL/13/LC follow-up


Regards, Judy Kuhagen
JSC Secretary


[RDA-L] Deadlines reminder

2013-11-27 Thread JSC Secretary
Dear JSC,

Because there are so many deadlines floating around in emails, Gordon
agreed that I should send a listing of current deadlines.  I'll update the
list via email as deadlines are added.  The list below includes dates from
the 2013 meeting actions table plus dates assigned after the meeting via
emails.  It doesn't include any of my tasks related to editing for the
February release.

Let me know if I've omitted any deadlines or given incorrect information.

FYI:  Five of the more complicated proposals requiring additional work now
have Jan. 10-13 deadlines.  With only a few days between those deadlines
and my Jan. 15 deadline to send you the Sec final drafts, the Sec final
drafts for those five proposals may not be ready by that Jan. 15 deadline.

Regards, Judy

= = = = =

?? -- remaining draft JSC responses to EURIG documents:  Alan

Nov. 29 -- example for 9.19.1.2:  Examples Group

Nov. 30 -- protocol for synchronization between JSC and ISBD RG:  Gordon

Nov. 30 -- comments on latest draft of Policy/1:  JSC reps

Nov. 30 -- revised draft of Editor's Guide to JSC:  Judy

Nov. 30 -- report to JSC on comparison of scope statements in ch. 25-28
with glossary definitions:  Judy

Nov. 30 -- listing to JSC of glossary terms with parenthetical qualifiers:
 Judy

Nov. 30 -- information to JSC about unresolved vocabulary
terms/definitions:  Judy

Dec. 1 -- report to JSC on comparison of wording in D.1.2:  Judy

Dec. 1 -- contact with ALA TF on places about being involved in JSC WG on
places:  Kathy

Dec. 3 -- comments on Fast Track entries:  JSC reps

Dec. 3 -- comments on draft of initial Outcomes announcement:  JSC reps

Dec. 6 -- comments on terms of reference for ROF Working Group:  JSC reps

Dec. 6 -- comments on general terms of reference document:  JSC reps

Dec. 7 -- comments on draft JSC response to the ISBD RG response involving
ISBD/Discussion 1 and 2:  JSC reps

Dec. 8 -- comments on draft annual report:  JSC reps

Dec. 15 -- examples for variant access points (ALA/24):  Examples Group

Dec. 15 -- information to Gordon about problems with definition of
projected as a Media type:  JSC reps

Dec. 15 -- preparation of ALA/23/rev:  Kathy

Dec. 20 -- comments on terms of reference for places working group:  JSC
reps

Dec. 31 -- nominations for working group on places:  JSC reps

Dec. 31 -- report to JSC on number vs. numeral in RDA:  Judy

Jan. 1 -- draft to JSC of final Outcomes announcement:  Judy [JAK needs to
discuss this deadline with Gordon because precedes deadline for comments on
four follow-up documents and revision of ALA/23]

Jan. 10 -- comments on CCC/11/follow-up:  JSC reps

Jan. 10 -- comments on final Outcomes document:  JSC reps

Jan. 13 -- comments on Music/3/follow-up:  JSC reps

Jan. 13 -- comments on BL/13/LC follow-up:  JSC reps

Jan. 13 -- probable deadline (not yet announced) for comments on
ALA/23/rev:  JSC reps

Jan. 13 -- posting of new Fast Track entries for April Update in Fast Track
log:  JSC reps

Jan. 15 -- distribution of Sec final document drafts for JSC review:  Judy

Jan. 15 -- revised draft of element analysis table:  Judy

Jan. 31 -- comments on Sec final document drafts:  JSC reps

Jan. 31 -- comments on revised draft of element analysis table:  JSC reps


[RDA-L] Apologies: deadline reminder

2013-11-27 Thread JSC Secretary
Dear RDA-L subscribers,

I apologize to you for sending an internal JSC document to the RDA-L list.
 Please ignore this message.

Judy Kuhagen
JSC Secretary