Can religious and secular courts exist in the same nation?

2008-11-19 Thread RJLipkin
An interesting piece in today's NY Times. _http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/19/world/europe/19shariah.html_ (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/19/world/europe/19shariah.html) ? Bobby Robert Justin Lipkin Distinguished Professor of Law Widener University School of Law Delaware Ratio Juris ,

Re: Lack of sincerity

2008-08-02 Thread RJLipkin
Susan writes: There will always be self-interest behind any decision. Even altruistic choices involve a belief that the action will send one to heaven, or the gratification of knowing one is better than others. If this means every decision to act entails that one wants

Re: Lack of sincerity

2008-08-02 Thread RJLipkin
If your point is that self-referential motives are often the basis for altruistic behavior, I agree. If you insist, by contrast, that self-referential motives must be the basis of altruistic behavior then you will hypothesize a self-referential motive for any example I suggest, and that

Re: LOFTON / Re: Defamation of Religion

2008-08-01 Thread RJLipkin
This certainly trivializes the concept of religion. A government that persecutes theists, defames religion in general, and so forth is religious? I suppose the argument is that such a government simply adopts the wrong religion. I suppose similarly each individual is religious no matter

Re: LOFTON / Re: Defamation of Religion

2008-08-01 Thread RJLipkin
Insisting there is no religion--it doesn't exist--but religion can nevertheless be used intelligibly (as a bracket term). suggests that one has an elaborate argument that no matter how much it might vary from ordinary intelligent discourse, he or she wants to impose on you. I think I'll

Re: The Impaler's Wall

2007-12-18 Thread RJLipkin
Mr. Linden writes: There is no religion of Paganism. Pagans are defined by what they are NOT. (And as a poster on Magicknet said, I might as well call myself Not Tom Mix. Forgive me, I've been paying only a cursory attention to this thread, but does the above remark apply

Re: The Impaler's Wall

2007-12-18 Thread RJLipkin
Mr. Linden writes: On the other hand, I have had atheists try to explain away the lack-of-evils in real-world atheist societies by claiming that Communism is really a religion. Does this mean that atheism and secular humanism are? Wow!! Strange atheists in my book. If communism is a

Re: Question

2007-10-13 Thread RJLipkin
But even if this be true, Congress has not thereby lost its exclusive constitutional authority to make laws necessary and proper to carry out the powers vested by the Constitution' in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.' Is this statement saying

Re: And God files a response? (Was: Suing God (honest, it's a lawsuit that ha...

2007-09-21 Thread RJLipkin
In a message dated 9/21/2007 12:16:30 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I created man and woman with free will and next to the promise of immortal life, free will is my greatest gift to you, according to the response, as read by Friend. Since Bobby Robert

Re: And God files a response? (Was: Suing God (honest, it's a lawsuit that ha...

2007-09-21 Thread RJLipkin
Sorry for inadvertently hitting send. The jurisdictional point might be legitimate but surely the following is not: It adds that blaming God for human oppression and suffering misses an important point. I created man and woman with free will and next to the promise of immortal

Re: [spam] Re: And God files a response? (Was: Suing God (honest, it's a law...

2007-09-21 Thread RJLipkin
In a message dated 9/21/2007 10:22:33 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: And everyone involved seems to take it for granted which concept of God applies. For instance, if it turns out to be Vishnu, He might do to Mr. Lipkin what He, as Narasimha, did to King

Re: (no subject)

2007-09-19 Thread RJLipkin
Great! Next time do it when I tell you to do it. Bobby Robert Justin Lipkin Professor of Law Widener University School of Law Delaware Ratio Juris , Contributor: _ http://ratiojuris.blogspot.com/_ (http://ratiojuris.blogspot.com/) Essentially Contested America, Editor-In-Chief

Re: Mormon Student, Justice, ACLU Join Up

2007-09-08 Thread RJLipkin
In a message dated 9/7/2007 11:51:59 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: My only concern is to point out that while everyone recognizes that theists start from a grounding within a particular belief system, so too do atheists. Starting from a grounding within a

Re: Mormon Student, Justice, ACLU Join Up

2007-09-08 Thread RJLipkin
We are arguing, I would think, about the term ideology as it occurs in American political discourse. To insist that the use of that term corresponds to a dictionary definition is simply circular. That very dictionary definition is what I'm challenging as applied to American political

Re: Mormon Student, Justice, ACLU Join Up

2007-09-07 Thread RJLipkin
In a message dated 9/7/2007 9:33:17 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Both atheists and evangelicals adhere to particular ideological perspectives. While this may be true of particular individuals, it's far from an accurate account of the

Re: Mormon Student, Justice, ACLU Join Up

2007-09-07 Thread RJLipkin
David E. Guinn wrote: Third, to say atheists are not evangelical ignores the passion and furor around Harris, Dawkins, Hutchens et. al. and the best selling books they have written. The distinction between evangelism and atheism should not be collapsed because both exhibit

Re: Mormon Student, Justice, ACLU Join Up

2007-09-07 Thread RJLipkin
In a message dated 9/7/2007 10:16:25 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Under the framework I suggest, the most important difference between the two competing perspectives is what falls within the zone of permissible argument/discourse/source of truth and what falls

Re: Mormon Student, Justice, ACLU Join Up

2007-09-05 Thread RJLipkin
I'd welcome an on-list discussion of this matter, with Eugene's permission of course. Bobby Robert Justin Lipkin Professor of Law Widener University School of Law Delaware Ratio Juris , Contributor: _ http://ratiojuris.blogspot.com/_ (http://ratiojuris.blogspot.com/) Essentially

Re: Mormon Student, Justice, ACLU Join Up

2007-08-31 Thread RJLipkin
In a message dated 8/30/2007 4:13:54 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: the mission must be completed before the individual is 26 Just out of curiosity, how would this apply to converts older than 26? Bobby Robert Justin Lipkin Professor of Law Widener

Re: Falwell: Not Necessarily The Person That You Think

2007-05-17 Thread RJLipkin
Unfortunately, Jean's point needs to be emphasized. Being characterized as a hater is dreadful. Being subject to hate is at least a couple of quanta beyond dreadful. That's why, in my view, the hate speech controversy always begins with the wrong baseline, an inordinate concern with the

Re: Lofton / Falwell Not Preacher He SHOULD Have Been

2007-05-17 Thread RJLipkin
In a message dated 5/16/2007 9:59:21 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Please remember that this is a list devoted to the law of government and religion -- not on whether some people (recently dead or otherwise) acted in sad or sinful ways, except insofar as that

RE: Lofton / Falwell Not Preacher He SHOULD Have Been

2007-05-17 Thread rjlipkin
When a major figure in American constitutional politics--concerning the First Amendment--dies, we are in a position to evaluate his completed life in all its aspects and therefore assess just what his final impact on American society was. In my view, debating whether we should draw a line

Re: Religious exemptions for the non-religious

2007-03-01 Thread RJLipkin
In a message dated 3/1/2007 4:06:41 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Atheism and agnosticism should be considered religions for free exercise purposes because, as Doug has argued in print, we would regard them as religions for establishment purpose It might be

Re: Religious exemptions for the non-religious

2007-03-01 Thread RJLipkin
Sure, one denies certain propositions in physics, but as with any science--for that matter any field of study--conceptual, paradigmatic propositions when denied eviscerate that field either to replace it with another paradigm and field or to let it drift asunder as in the case of alchemy.

Re: RLUIPA and Compelling Interests

2006-12-11 Thread RJLipkin
Marty, are you limiting your complaint to compelling interests? Each of the three levels of review and the characterization of the different means--reasonably related, substantially related, and narrowly tailored (or necessary) and the concomitant goals--compelling, important, and

Cemetery Speech Free Exercise

2006-09-09 Thread RJLipkin
I'd welcome hearing about caselaw and literature discussingFirst Amendment issues, if any, concerning religious symbols on headstones in government owned cemeteries, for example Arlington cemetery. BobbyRobert Justin LipkinProfessor of LawWidener University School of LawDelaware

Re: Recommendation...

2006-09-01 Thread RJLipkin
John Lofton writes: "Quote Scripture, please, Mr. Finkelman, where God Himself ever APPROVED of polygamy." How much weight does the absence of such a quote have in a discussion of what God does or does not approve of? What counts as God approving of a practice? Must the Bible explicitly

Re: Recommendation...

2006-09-01 Thread RJLipkin
In a message dated 9/1/2006 12:52:58 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Not talking abt wht people in Bible DID. Asked for Scripture showing where God APPROVES of polygamy. Stick to the context here, please. You can, of course, artificially restrict the context so

Re: Recommendation...

2006-09-01 Thread RJLipkin
In a message dated 9/1/2006 12:46:24 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Using the theological principal of "the law of first mention,"meaning that the first time a principle is mentioned inScripture is its meaning throughout, in Genesis 2:21-24God created the

Re: Lofton/God/polygamy

2006-09-01 Thread RJLipkin
Do you have a conception of reasonable inference as it pertains to the Bible.If so,kindly share it with the List. What role does textualism play in your conception and must one infer from specific Biblical text or may one infer from a more general conception of the Bible as a whole. Is your

Re: Recommendation...

2006-09-01 Thread RJLipkin
If mere action without divine condemnation does not count as God's approval, then what does? There is nothing circular is seeking an independent conception of how one ascertains God's approval. Must it be a specific statement of approval or disapproval? What counts as a reasonable

Re: Teenagers The Spirit of Liberty

2006-05-25 Thread RJLipkin
One issue that has be intimated but not stated explicitly, I think, is that the students are acting lawlessly. Is that the message that we want to send our children and other students? That it's OK when you have conscientious beliefs to violate laws and societal norms just because you think

Re: Teenagers The Spirit of Liberty

2006-05-23 Thread RJLipkin
In a message dated 5/23/2006 4:32:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: While it may be "their" commencement, it is also the commencement of all of the other students and their families present. Should everyone be allowed to interrupt the service and impose their

Re: Use of Religion to Achieve Secular Ends

2006-05-06 Thread RJLipkin
It's unclear howthe proposition that theological transformation and faith are good when embraced either freely or through coercion is a theological proposition or is only a theological proposition. As a theological proposition it is, in my view, rather uninteresting since one will accept it

Re: Catholic Charities Issue

2006-03-13 Thread RJLipkin
In a message dated 3/13/2006 11:24:00 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Separation was not meant to cause subordination. But, if due to changed circumstances, "separation" causes subordination, why wouldn't Judge McConnell,an originalist, seek the remedy in Article Five,

Re: Catholic Charities Not Bending the Knee to Baal

2006-03-11 Thread RJLipkin
In a message dated 3/10/2006 11:16:20 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: This was the right move for the Archdiocese to make. Really, it was the only move they could make. It's sad that many children will suffer, but the Archdiocese has to obey its conscience. Isn't

Re: Catholic Charities Not Bending the Knee to Baal

2006-03-11 Thread RJLipkin
In a message dated 3/11/2006 10:17:25 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: My point--which focused only on thereligious liberty issue--was that when faced with a choice between obeying God or Caesar, the Church must obey God. That is what the Church did in this case.

Re: Catholic Charities Not Bending the Knee to Baal

2006-03-11 Thread RJLipkin
In a message dated 3/11/2006 12:27:28 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The issue is whether we should believe God's moral teachings or the moral teachings of secular elites. That is an easy choice for me, as it appears to be for Benedict XVI. Rick, isn't the

Re: Missouri declares Christianity its official religion.

2006-03-04 Thread RJLipkin
In a message dated 3/3/2006 9:16:46 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Well, I don't see christianity becoming a minority religion in the US any time in my lifetime or my grandchildren's. My point was both a descriptive (predictive) point and an analytic one. Steve

Re: Missouri declares Christianity its official religion.

2006-03-03 Thread RJLipkin
I have a fairly straightforward question or set of questions: What does it mean to say that the United States is a Christian country or that Christianity is, in the United States, the "official" religion? Is this a descriptive claim? More Christians than members of other religions? A

Re: Breaking news in federal RFRA case

2006-02-23 Thread RJLipkin
In a message dated 2/23/2006 2:04:12 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I don't know anything about the dangers of hoasca, If hoasca contains DMT, it is an extremely dangerous drug, potentially more powerful than LSD. The dissociation and hallucinations it causes

American Courts Asked to Interpet Muslim Marriage contract

2006-02-15 Thread rjlipkin
I have a student who is doing a moot court project on whether state courtscan settle a dispute over the meaning of an Islamicmarriage contract.The parties are resident aliens and the question is whetherthe courts can interpret the relevant provisions of the religious marriage contract without

Re: School District drops Intelligent Design Class

2006-01-19 Thread RJLipkin
Michael raises important issues. But I think we eviscerate the idea of a civic culture in a diverse, deliberative democracy if we capitulate to those more interested in teaching conclusions than inquiry, or more perspicuously stated, more interest in teaching conclusions incompatible with

Re: School District drops Intelligent Design Class

2006-01-18 Thread rjlipkin
I'm not certain of all the facts or whether the teacher's purpose was to present the case for ID only, but from what I know I think Brad is right. What's wrong with teaching the case for and against ID in a philosophy class? Is it any different from teaching the case for and against communism in

Re: School District drops Intelligent Design Class

2006-01-18 Thread RJLipkin
Okay, there are problematic facts which makes this case of poor example of the point I'm advocating. However, I think it's a positive good to have the hot-buttons issues, creationism, ID, the problem of evil, and other arguments against the plausibility and even intelligibility of the

Re: School District drops Intelligent Design Class

2006-01-18 Thread RJLipkin
The answer to Michael's pertinent question is critical. I suppose we know only what to rule out, for example, "I believe this is the class that the Lord wanted me to teach." In my view, teaching in general should stimulate(provoke respectfully and sensitively), and basically being more

Re: Dover Case Questions

2005-12-22 Thread RJLipkin
In a message dated 12/22/2005 9:06:14 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Some scientists and philosophers -- folks like Richard Dawkins and Daniel Dennett most vocally lately -- argue that the conclusions of science, such as evolution, shred any possible basis for

Re: Dover Intelligent-Design Case

2005-12-20 Thread RJLipkin
Although I do not disagree with the result in this case, I am troubled by the idea of judges deciding what is or what is not science. As far as I can tell, a Kuhnian conception of scientific change in principle supports the possibility of intelligentdesign being understood as expanding the

Re: Dover Intelligent-Design Case

2005-12-20 Thread RJLipkin
I recognize the role of expert witnesses generally is to present testimony according to which courts decide factual and conceptual issues--although I probably have more skepticism than others concerning such testimony and its place in litigation. My point is that the same result is

Re: Dover Intelligent-Design Case

2005-12-20 Thread RJLipkin
In a message dated 12/20/2005 12:46:45 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Is it better to have a judge decide what is science, after lots of expert testimony, than an elected school board after listening to constituents without any scientific background? Now what

Re: Dover Intelligent-Design Case

2005-12-20 Thread RJLipkin
Unfortunately, Ed Darrell distorts my post. I never said or implied that Kuhn's theory of sciencefavors intelligent design in any way at all." What I said was "Ido not see any likelihood of intelligent design providing the thrust for a paradigm shift concerning what is or what is not

Re: Dover Intelligent-Design Case

2005-12-20 Thread RJLipkin
In a message dated 12/20/2005 3:16:15 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: A liberal education and a willingness to get educated to make such assessments. And an understanding that we always act on imperfect knowledge and understanding and an understanding that in some

Re: Dover Intelligent-Design Case

2005-12-20 Thread RJLipkin
I don't have a solution for the problem of lawyers and judges assessing expert testimony. Perhaps this is a necessary feature of adjudication. Still, we should recognize it as a problem, at least in my view, and try to limit its role. Philosophical investigation may get some issues wrong

Re: A note about the Atheist Legal Center, or at least its founder

2005-12-13 Thread RJLipkin
Paul's query again raisesthe question of the List's purposes. My own view is that phrases like "Zionist-Occupied Government" and, in Paul's words,the speaker's "anti-Semitic self-promotion" do not belong on this List. I recognizeand admire Eugene's typical reluctance to censoremails posted

Re: Kansas Prof Physically Attacked

2005-12-08 Thread rjlipkin
"I read it that way before I got to the disclaimer and was laughing out loud by the end. Nice work." I did not and so I was greatly relieved by the disclaimer. BobbyRobert Justin LipkinProfessor of LawWidener University School of LawDelaware -Original Message-From: Ed Brayton

Re: Kansas Prof Physically Attacked

2005-12-08 Thread rjlipkin
"I read it that way before I got to the disclaimer and was laughing out loud by the end. Nice work." I did not and so I was greatly relieved by the disclaimer. BobbyRobert Justin LipkinProfessor of LawWidener University School of LawDelaware -Original Message-From: Ed Brayton

Re: The Holiday That Dare Not Speak Its Name

2005-11-28 Thread RJLipkin
I wouldprefer not to be wished a Merry Christmas and when I lived in Lincoln, Nebraska I would often politely tell people I don't celebrate Christmas (butthat, of course, has changed since I married a Christian). However,I don't think anyone has yet tried to indicate why someone might bristle at

Re: The Holiday That Dare Not Speak Its Name

2005-11-28 Thread RJLipkin
But why would anyone be miffed when someonepolitely asked herto forgo giving a particular greeting? Indeed, why would anyone be miffed by politely being asked not to do somethingeven for totally irrational concerns unless it was conspicuously important for the formerto engage in the conduct in

Re: The Holiday That Dare Not Speak Its Name

2005-11-28 Thread RJLipkin
In a message dated 11/28/2005 5:10:51 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: It would be interesting to see statistics on how many Americans celebrateChristmas as a religious (or partly religious) holiday, and how manycelebrate it as a completely secular holiday. My guess is that

Re: The Holiday That Dare Not Speak Its Name

2005-11-28 Thread RJLipkin
No doubt Eugene and I disagree. But before engaging further does he mean that hewould not refrain from using "hello" when he addressed the person in question or in general?Surely, good mannersprovides no reason justifyingone person to silence someone'suse of a particular term in general. But

Re: The Holiday That Dare Not Speak Its Name

2005-11-28 Thread RJLipkin
The joke about Hanukah bushes--though perhaps some Jews having Christmas trees called them that--is essentiallya joke.But I'm sure Doug gets out more than me because I never heard anyone suggesting that Christmas is a secular holiday except Michael Perry. To me it cannot be a secular holiday

Re: Voters Oust Dover School Board

2005-11-09 Thread RJLipkin
Ed, when do you think the article will be published? And is it an online journal. Thanks, Bobby. Robert Justin LipkinProfessor of LawWidener University School of LawDelaware ___ To post, send message to Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu To subscribe,

Re: Alito Views SCOTUS Doctrine as Giving Impression of HostilitytoReligious ...

2005-11-04 Thread RJLipkin
In a message dated 11/4/2005 12:51:37 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: If there are voices on this list who doubt the value of religions in which they place no faith, that is all well and good for them, but every time an all too human impulse to pulverize someone

Re: FYI: An Interesting See You at the Pole Case

2005-11-02 Thread RJLipkin
Is there any significant relation between denying equal funding to those who opt out of public schools and denying indigent woman funding for choosing abortion? Put differently should these cases be treated the same?To wit: You have a fundamental right to educate your children privately but

Re: FYI: An Interesting See You at the Pole Case

2005-11-01 Thread RJLipkin
I agree with Joel's powerfulremarks. If members of a particular religionare obligated to share the good news, but they also recognize there are basic constitutional reasons in a pluralistic democracy for placing limits on(virtually) confrontational "sharing"or if not limits seeking indirect

Re: FYI: An Interesting See You at the Pole Case

2005-11-01 Thread RJLipkin
I agree with Rick completely that free speech has costs and that democratsmust endure (even embrace?) these costs. But that says nothing about the wisdom of conveying one's message in a particularmanner.What's the difference between a Christian who believes in proselytizing by virtual

Re: FYI: An Interesting See You at the Pole Case

2005-10-31 Thread RJLipkin
In a message dated 10/31/2005 4:20:08 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Of course, once your friend says "no, thanks," you should not harass or in any way impose your beliefs on the unwilling listener. I wonder how realistic this is. Ifmembers of a particular

Darwin v. Dover

2005-09-24 Thread RJLipkin
The Dover trial regarding evolution versusintelligent design begins, I think, this Monday. If anyone on the List--a journalist or otherwise--plans to attend the trial, it might be helpful if he or she were to keep List members posted on how it develops. Thanks. Bobby Robert Justin

Re: 6th Cir. and RLUIPA

2005-09-19 Thread RJLipkin
In a message dated 9/19/2005 10:53:42 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: if strict scrutiny requires deference to the government, we are no longer in the territory of strict scrutiny. Let me add my two (maybe one) cent(s) and then bow out. As I understand it, strict

Re: Floodwaters and Undermined Walls

2005-09-02 Thread RJLipkin
In a message dated 9/1/2005 2:39:50 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The provision of material needs tells me that my leaders are aware of shortages and doing their job to meet them. The call to prayer tells me that the leaders' hearts are with me as well. I

Re: Every Idea is an Incitement

2005-09-02 Thread RJLipkin
In a message dated 9/2/2005 9:55:13 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Real people are affected when memorial speeches, crosses, and plaques are censored in the name of anti-establishment. Real people are denied equal access to state universities when courses

Re: UFOs

2005-08-22 Thread RJLipkin
In a message dated 8/22/2005 9:55:29 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Those who are not Christian are made to know it constantly by events going on in schools -- mostly from other students, but far from always. Those who are athiests or agnostics are often even

Re: Hostility

2005-08-22 Thread RJLipkin
In a message dated 8/22/2005 10:50:40 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I still think Mike McConnellsaid it best when he said: "A secular school does not necessarily produce atheists, but it produces young adults who inevitably think of religion as extraneous to

Re: Religious Polygamy

2005-08-21 Thread RJLipkin
In a message dated 8/21/2005 1:30:54 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Lawrence, at least as a matter of formal analysis, inasmuch as we it is certainly rational to view adultery as a victim-creating activity and a well-substantiated threat to marriage. I might

Re: Findings on Hostility at Smithsonian Noted in NRO Article

2005-08-20 Thread RJLipkin
In a message dated 8/20/2005 12:56:26 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ." But if you give a perfectly plausible account for how a complex biochemical system might have evolved, complete with tracing the possible mutations, locating gene duplications, and so forth,

Re: Findings on Hostility at Smithsonian Noted in NRO Article

2005-08-19 Thread RJLipkin
In a message dated 8/19/2005 12:46:13 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On the other hand, if they can be universally applied, and there are in fact universal, unchanging bits of knowledge we call the moral law, then we have the problem of accounting for that

Re: Findings on Hostility at Smithsonian Noted in NRO Article

2005-08-19 Thread RJLipkin
In a message dated 8/19/2005 1:56:24 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Note that the second part of Bobby's explanation of why intelligent design was rejected is an explicitly theological argument about the nature of any posited deity. (Aside: I believe many

Re: Increase in No Religion?

2005-08-07 Thread RJLipkin
I am curious about the relationship between "revealed truths" and "reason" in the contentionthat one could embrace both. Is it that some canonical authority states a truth such as "Love thy neighbor" or "God is the source of moral goodness", and reasons explicates the content of these

Re: Establisment clause and oppressive taxation

2005-08-05 Thread RJLipkin
In a message dated 8/5/2005 12:19:48 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What if the synagogue, temple, or mosque also distributes and sells religiously-prepared foods as does the local grocery stores, but some of the believers would rather purchase food with their

Re: religiously-motivated political strife

2005-08-04 Thread RJLipkin
In a message dated 8/3/2005 11:01:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Of course, in recent times much religious strife is caused by excluding religious people from equal access to the public square and from equal participation in the benefits of the welfare state.

Re: religiously-motivated political strife

2005-08-04 Thread RJLipkin
In a message dated 8/4/2005 10:47:25 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Supposeyou fell off a ship at sea and were drowning and I threw you a lifeline. And yousaid, "I don't like this lifeline because it's orange and I prefer yellow ones." And I said "it's the only

Re: Pres. Bush Supports Intelligent Design

2005-08-02 Thread RJLipkin
In a message dated 8/2/2005 9:23:38 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: the primary ID advocates themselves continually say that they don't want ID to be taught in science classrooms. In fact, when my side says that they do they throw a fit about how we're

Re: John Lofton/Oaths

2005-07-30 Thread RJLipkin
I thought this was what Jim's distinction between pluralism and tolerance amounted to, but wasn't sure. Unfortunately, current dictionary usage is ambiguous about the status of "toleration." Many dictionary entriesstress putting up with or sufferingsomething. But even here the object often

Re: John Lofton/Oaths

2005-07-30 Thread RJLipkin
An omitted final remark: Even if pluralism, in some societies,toleratesgroups not of equal status,that shows the connection between pluralism and toleration, not the reverse. So even given Doug's historical point, one can readily say pluralism and toleration not only coexist, but in those

Re: John Lofton/Oaths

2005-07-29 Thread RJLipkin
I doubt that most people, even religious people, are more ready to tell the truth only if the swear an oath to God rather than simply being informed that the perjury rules apply. But that aside, Jim presses the question, do we accept variances because "we are a pluralistic society or

Re: John Lofton/Oaths

2005-07-29 Thread RJLipkin
I do not recall Locke's views on this matter. But we do accept affirmation; and I think the word"infidel," is tocontemporary American sensibility, offensive. Typically, its used to denigrate someone else's religious belief as irreligious because the belief is incompatible withthe

Re: John Lofton/Oaths

2005-07-29 Thread RJLipkin
Jim writes: "But the development of trials from battle and fire to oath and jury suggests that some kind of meaning attaches to an oath above and beyond the bare power of the court to punish perjury." I think this unjustifiably conflates the origination of X with X's present character.A

Re: John Lofton/Oaths

2005-07-28 Thread RJLipkin
I'm not sure why it is implied that one's oath to God is false or rather to a false God unless one's hand is on the Bible. How can a pluralist society take a stand on which God is the true God? But more important, isn't the purpose of swearing an oath to God, to discipline the oath-taker

Re: John Lofton/Oaths

2005-07-28 Thread RJLipkin
In a message dated 7/28/2005 9:08:51 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: For constitutional and legal purposes, do you distinguish between pluralistic and tolerant societies? I think we are both pluralist and tolerant or at least aspire to be, especially for

Re: what does the right REALLY think of Roberts?

2005-07-26 Thread RJLipkin
In a message dated 7/25/2005 11:21:17 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: am a libertarian/social conservative (I like the liberties that are expressed in the Constitution,the ones I have trouble with are the deadly ones theliberals on the Courthave invented), How

Re: Of the indefiniteness of Constitutional terms

2005-07-26 Thread RJLipkin
In a message dated 7/26/2005 9:45:08 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: would only have said, the meaning of the words of the Constitution belong to the people who ratified it . . . . Is there any dispositive evidence that in some univocal sense of "the people"

Re: what does the right REALLY think of Roberts?

2005-07-26 Thread RJLipkin
In a message dated 7/26/2005 10:06:35 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On homosexuality, most social conservatives do not favor lawsprohibiting sodomy, but they do resist employment and housing lawswhich require them to "accept" the "lifestyle." Contentions such

Re: what does the right REALLY think of Roberts?

2005-07-26 Thread RJLipkin
In a message dated 7/26/2005 11:15:31 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: By the way, most social liberals who consider themselves libertariando not support gun rights, school choice, low taxes, freedom of contract and other economic liberties,etc. So even if I am

Re: what does the right REALLY think of Roberts?

2005-07-26 Thread RJLipkin
In a message dated 7/26/2005 10:44:54 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: My sense is that most of the opposition to overruling Bowers was basedon a perception that the Court was acting lawlessly (a peception Idon't necessarily share), and a concern that the

Re: what does the right REALLY think of Roberts?

2005-07-25 Thread RJLipkin
In a message dated 7/25/2005 4:37:41 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: (Since this is a religion list, what exactly does it mean to "enforce theConstitution as written" when it comes to the religion clauses?) A distinct but equally important question is this.

Re: inJohn Roberts' America.....

2005-07-23 Thread RJLipkin
In a message dated 7/23/2005 7:13:30 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Jean can and should do with her body whatever she likes, but she ought to be prevented from taking the life of a child even if, by the acts of others, it finds itself in so hostile a land. I

Re: Assaults on the England language/republican v. democracy

2005-07-22 Thread RJLipkin
In a message dated 7/22/2005 3:21:54 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Put another way, Republicans believe they have at least as good a claim asDemocrats to being committed to democratic principles; given their view thatDemocrats wish to use nondemocratic courts to

Re: Assaults on the England language

2005-07-21 Thread RJLipkin
The grammatical argument is only one factor for saying the "Democratic Party" instead of "Democrat Party."What's dispositive, in my view, is that "Democratic Party" isthe chosen name of a particular group of fellow citizens. And, again in my view, respect for those citizens should carry

Re: Civility versus Respect

2005-07-21 Thread RJLipkin
Jim confuses descriptions with proper names. Such terms as "pro-life," "fundamentalist," and "abominable and detestable crime against nature" are descriptions of people or their positions on various issues. My recentpost about respect takes no stand on Jim's concern about such descriptions.

Re: George Washington adding under God to the Presidential oath

2005-07-20 Thread RJLipkin
Does grammar have a role to play in the controversy between Marty and Jim? If so, it seems Marty wins. "Democratic" is, of course, an adjective; "Democrat" is a noun. If not, why not? Bobby Robert Justin LipkinProfessor of LawWidener University School of LawDelaware

  1   2   >