My response, matching your comments, appears throughout.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 3/15/2005 10:54:32 PM
On Mar 15, 2005, at 2:47 PM, James Maule wrote:
Though I am proposing a shift away from marriage as a civil right
(and
its replacement with something else), I am not proposing a shift
away
from
I'm of the mind that the recent decision from Judge Robert Kramer in
California regarding gay marriage in that state is another step in the
march towards the eventual breaking down of the societal prohibition on
same-sex marriage. One of the arguments I've heard against it is that
the guvmint
The right to marry doesn't include the right to a church wedding. Pastors, rabbis and other religious leaders who may perform marriages now have relatively wide latitude to say for whom they will or won't perform the ceremony.
The couple may get married in a civil ceremony at the courthouse, or
I wonder if the reverse argument has more power. That is: if a church declares
that the sacrament of marriage is available to *any* couple willing to accept
it, does the minister of that church have a free exercise right *to perform*
that marriage ceremony?
--
Paul Finkelman
Chapman
On Mar 15, 2005, at 9:56 AM, Paul Finkelman wrote:
I wonder if the reverse argument has more power. That is: if a
church declares that the sacrament of marriage is available to *any*
couple willing to accept it, does the minister of that church have a
free exercise right *to perform* that
for Law AcademicsSubject:
Rights of clergy regarding same-sex marriage? -- a free exercise
right?
I
wonder if the reverse argument has more power. That is: if a
church declares that the sacrament of marriage is available to *any* couple
willing to accept it, does the minister of that church
PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jean Dudley
Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2005 2:22 AM
To: Law Religion issues for Law Academics
Subject: Rights of clergy regarding same-sex marriage?
I'm of the mind that the recent decision from Judge Robert Kramer in
California regarding gay marriage in that state
regarding same-sex marriage?
I'm of the mind that the recent decision from Judge Robert Kramer in
California regarding gay marriage in that state is another step in the
march towards the eventual breaking down of the societal prohibition on
same-sex marriage. One of the arguments I've heard against
: Tuesday, March 15, 2005 1:05
PM
To: Law
Religion issues for Law Academics
Subject: Re: Rights of clergy
regarding same-sex marriage?
There is a VAST difference in status and relationship to the state
between justices of the peace and ministers. As things are, no minister can be
required
On Mar 15, 2005, at 1:02 PM, James Maule wrote:
Civil birth registration and baptisms/christenings are separate. So,
too, are death registrations and funerals/memorial services. Why not
separation of marriage and whatever one wants to call state sanctioning
of pairing?
Jim Maule
Three words:
James makes a good point, and should be taken a step further; have the
governemtn get out of the marriage business. Let religious institutions
perform marriage and have the government regulate civil unions for all
people; civil unions are contracts that cover property, child support
and
Though I am proposing a shift away from marriage as a civil right (and
its replacement with something else), I am not proposing a shift away
from marriage as a religious ceremony. To the contrary, to the extent
states get involved defining marriage it cheapens that sacrament as it
stands within
(phone)
512-471-6988 (fax)
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Paul Finkelman
Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2005 1:05 PM
To: Law Religion issues for Law Academics
Subject: Re: Rights of clergy regarding same-sex marriage?
James makes a good point
5 2:13 PMTo:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]; Law Religion issues for Law Academics;
[EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: RE: Rights of clergy regarding
same-sex marriage?
I recently moderated a student-faculty discussion on
same-sex marriage here at St. John's, and when I floated the idea
that the tension might
Vischer
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Richard
Dougherty
Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2005 2:47 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Law Religion issues for Law Academics
Subject: Re: Rights of clergy regarding same-sex marriage?
Paul, et al
My understanding is that marriage was strictly civil until some time in the middle ages. For a long time after the organization of the church, in Europe, couples married themselves with an oral commitment, the verbum. The church took no role. Later the custom arose of having a priest present to
Title: RE: Rights of clergy regarding same-sex
marriage?
In response to the original posting by Jean Dudley, US scholars
may be interested in some recent developments elsewhere.
Here are some edited snippets from a forthcoming book (by myself
and Ian Leigh (Durham University, UK)):
CANADA
of clergy regarding same-sex marriage?
On Tuesday, March 15, 2005, at 04:44 PM, James Maule wrote:
What major social reform effectuated through legal change was NOT a
political non-starter when it first was proposed?
Never
On Mar 15, 2005, at 2:47 PM, James Maule wrote:
Though I am proposing a shift away from marriage as a civil right (and
its replacement with something else), I am not proposing a shift away
from marriage as a religious ceremony. To the contrary, to the extent
states get involved defining marriage
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