Re: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question
4 cans will do it. Preamp may or may not be of any use depending on noise floor. Your bigger problem is all the noise that a mobile encounters these days. Sometimes it's tough to hear the repeater through all the crap that's out there. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: NORM KNAPP nkn...@twowayradio.net To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 3:04 AM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question Oh drat! I thought I was getting away with something :-) I am about to start on a 6m mastr ii with 1 meg split. It is a 110 watt cont duty station I am converting to a repeater. I don't think the exciter is a pll, way too many cans on the board and small icom About how much isolation will I need there? I don't know if I have a preamp for this one or not... But if I do, I would try to run it. 73 - Original Message - From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed Sep 08 23:08:38 2010 Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question The PLL exciter is why you're having such good success running a 4-cavity duplexer. If you had a PM exciter, chances are you'd be experiencing desense. The PLL exciter produces about 22 dB less noise at 600 kHz offset, reducing the noise supression requirement of the duplexer by a like amount. See: http://www.repeater-builder.com/pdf/GE_Isolation_Curves.pdf The OP also mentioned he was using a preamp - that's not helping his situation either. Even with a good receiver he's probably on the edge of crunching it with only a 4-pack. Personally, I'd never run a preamp with nothing but a 4-cavity duplexer on 2m, but if it works for you, God bless... A Q202G gives more isolation than a WP639 from what I've seen/measured, in part because the cavities are larger diameter (I think they're 7 versus 5?). --- Jeff WN3A -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of NORM KNAPP Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 11:38 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question I got a set of 4 sinclair cans, like a Q202g on a GE mastr II running 100 watts with pll exciter and GE preamp with no desense. Antenna is roughly 300' away fed with LDF7-50A. Is this a miracle or typical? - Original Message - From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed Sep 08 20:10:44 2010 Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question I'm not surprised- you're asking too much of a duplexer that has four 5 cans. According to my CommShop program, a duplexer with an 80 dB spec is more suitable with transmitter power in the 10-15 watt range, assuming a solid-state PA and a receiver sensitivity around 0.35 uV at 12 dB SINAD. On a 100 watt repeater, I'd expect something like a WP-642, which has six 8 cans. BTDT, got the T-shirt and mug... 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of RichardK Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 3:11 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question Good evening, our club has a Wacom WP-639 four can duplexer as part of our repeater system. Input Fq is 147.915 and Output Fq is 147.315. We have a 600kHz (+) offset. Very simply, our main problem is when we run the transmitter at full power 100 watts, there is a HUGE desense on the receive side of things. When we drop the transmitter power level to around 20-50 watts, the receive side opens WAY up to a large area where people can get into the repeater. As we begin to bring up the transmitter power, white noise begins to appear and the receive side starts to desense again. All the cables have been
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: no power out of duplexer SOLVED with more questions - Thanks for the answers
More likely he had the radio programmed wrong. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: MCH m...@nb.net To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2010 11:16 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: no power out of duplexer SOLVED with more questions - Thanks for the answers His antenna could be in a null. It happens, as Murphy is a ham. Joe M.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] no power out of duplexer
Sounds like a bad cable/connector. Are there any adaptors or elbows? They could be suspect. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: W3ML w...@arrl.net To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 9:37 AM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] no power out of duplexer Hi, First, let me say that we are still new to the repeater business and learning as we go. This the first time in 30 ham years that I have been involved with a VHF repeater system. Our repeater was working okay at 80 watts out of GE Mastr II and 60 watts out of Duplexer. When I turn the power up to 100 out of radio and 80 out of duplexer it seemed to be working okay. But, now a few hours later there is no power coming out of duplexer at all. Radio still shows power coming out. Nothing was touch on the duplexer. Any ideas? 73 John, W3ML
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Micor UHF Sensivity
There are shield covers on the RX board that need to be pulled off and have the ground pins cleaned. I watched a Motorola service shop do that and the sensitivity came back. He turned to me and said you'd have been forever figuring that one out. Don't ask me why, but I saw it work. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: Tim Sawyer tisaw...@gmail.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 1:11 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Micor UHF Sensivity I have a Micor base that was manufactured in the ham band. Model is C64RXB3196A-SP71. The receiver model number is TRE1241A-SP10 (420-450 Mhz). It came with 4 channels all tuned up and on frequency in the ham band. But the receiver is sensitivity is .72 mv for 20 db quieting on the best channel and .9 on the worst. I went through the alignment procedure and could not make any improvement. Obviously this is not meeting the .5 spec and I was expecting more like .3 or so. So my questions is what should I do to troubleshoot this? Is there some common Micor receiver failure parts or areas that I should be looking into? -- Tim :wq
Re: [Repeater-Builder] 19D424089G1
I believe you are talking about an Exec II. Several places to check before replacing the PA. A common problem is the jumper between the exciter and the PA. The RCA connectors sometimes go intermittent. Also, if the TR relay hasn't been jumpered, it could have gone intermittent. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: Larry Wagoner larrywago...@bellsouth.net To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 8:27 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] 19D424089G1 Anyone have one of the above they wish to part with? We have reason to suspect the PA in our repeater. It has developed various intermittent behaviors (dropping carrier, distorted audio, varying output, etc.) .. I believe this to be the 60 watt PA for the GE Mastr II Exec II mobile radio conversion. If I have the wrong board number, please advise ... Larry Wagoner - N5WLW PRCARC Training Officer PIC - MS SECT ARRL Yahoo! Groups Links No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3117 - Release Date: 09/06/10 02:35:00
Re: [Repeater-Builder] 19D424089G1
Larry - This is either an Exec II or a Mastr II - two different radios. The Exec II mobile is 'gray' and has a plastic, non-movable handle. The Mastr II mobile has a foldable handle. Which one do you have? Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: Larry Wagoner larrywago...@bellsouth.net To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 8:27 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] 19D424089G1 Anyone have one of the above they wish to part with? We have reason to suspect the PA in our repeater. It has developed various intermittent behaviors (dropping carrier, distorted audio, varying output, etc.) .. I believe this to be the 60 watt PA for the GE Mastr II Exec II mobile radio conversion. If I have the wrong board number, please advise ... Larry Wagoner - N5WLW PRCARC Training Officer PIC - MS SECT ARRL
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Micor Pin Gunk
The station ID adds some real class to the video. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: w9srv tgundo2...@yahoo.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, September 04, 2010 1:27 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Micor Pin Gunk Hi Guys! I am in the middle of rebuilding a receive site for one of the area repeaters and have come across some interesting Pin Gunk. I've been told that Motorola techs years ago used to apply some kind of goo to help with the connection on all the backplane pins, etc, but I don't know if this is what that is. This receive site has been developing some intermittant issues on several fronts, and maybe this explains them. The problem with this gunk is that is is non-conductive and a real bugger to clean off. DeOxit seems to work the best. I made this quick video last night showing this on the pins of the power control board. Here is the link to the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmWumkQetdY Has anyone else ever come across this? Are there any other steps other than cleaning it off to ensure it will not be another problem in the future? Thanks! Tom W9SRV
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Antenna ID
These style antennas are typically poor performers FYI. I wouldn't use it for anything important. Cushcraft started the design with their Ringo series, then several others copied the design. They were inexpensive, which was the only good feature. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: La Rue Communications To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 4:01 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Antenna ID I figured this group would be in the know on how to ID an antenna without a sticker or any identification numbers engraved on it. I have an antenna that I found. It has no stickers of any kind, except for the This will kill you if you touch a wire sticker on it. Pictures attached are all I have. Its an N type connector and is roughly 4 feet in length. Is there any way to ID this with your traditional shop equipment? Thanks in advance! By the way, Kevin Custer, please email me! Thanks! John Hymes La Rue Communications 10 S. Aurora Street Stockton, CA 95202 http://tinyurl.com/2dtngmn -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3111 - Release Date: 09/03/10 02:34:00
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Circular polarization for VHF repeaters?
I would agree that lower gain antennas can make a big difference in some instances. Higher gain mean more nulls. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: petedcur...@gmail.com To: Repeater-Builder Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2010 10:38 AM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Circular polarization for VHF repeaters? It looks like the FCC rules give you extra power when opting for dual polarization. Doesn't mean the circular antenna contributes to extra coverage, in fact it looks like the extra RF power allowed for the two polarities is giving you more coverage? The web article for which I gave a link was from Europe and involved IBC Israel BBC UK tests and their conclusion was similar on Vertical Polarization. Many lack of coverage issues I've seen with extremely high sites is due to the use of high gain antennas with little or no down tilt. I have seen issues like this resolved by simply using a lower gain, say going from 10db gain down to 7 dB gain and applying 4 - 6 degrees of down tilt. Lowering the gain widens the beam and addition of down tilt puts the major part of the RF signal closer in and that improves coverage but it still puts a signal out to the RF horizon. Peter On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 1:47 AM, JOHN MACKEY jmac...@usa.net wrote: FM broadcast is NOT changing to vertical polarity! Most stations today are going on the air with either circular polarity or cross polarity (consisting of signal in BOTH the vertical and horizontal poles) With FCC licensing today, a FM station licensed for 10KW can have 10 KW in the vertical plane and 10 kW in the horizontal plane. So there would be no reason to only have the power in one plane. In the last 3 years, I have built 2 FM stations. Both used circular or cross polarity. -- Original Message -- Received: Wed, 01 Sep 2010 10:32:51 PM PDT From: petedcur...@gmail.com To: Repeater-Builder Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Circular polarization for VHF repeaters? Hi, I remembered circular polarization was used for FM broadcast due to FM car radios, but when I looked it up I found out some interesting facts, see the link below, https://www.digitaltraders.com/index.php/index.php/components/com_kunena/template/default_ex/templates/ja_edenite/index.php?option=com_contentview=articleid=57Itemid=134 https://www.digitaltraders.com/index.php/index.php/components/com_kunena/template/default_ex/templates/ja_edenite/index.php?option=com_contentview=articleid=57Itemid=134Interesting white paper on FM Broadcast and why they had historically had circular polarization and why they are now changing to vertical polarization. Peter On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 1:22 AM, burkleoj joeburk...@hotmail.com wrote: Gary, I am in Southern Oregon and I understand exactly what you are experiencing. We have very similar problems down here with our club's repeater. I have often talked about and even done some serious looking at remodeling a set of broadcast loops and harness for 2 Meters. I know there was a southern California repeater back in the 70's that used circular polarization with excellent results. They were able to provide much better coverage in their main service area, but did loose some long distance coverage outside their main coverage area. We have had the best success by using a lower gain antenna. We have been using the Telewave broadband two loop antennas with 2 - 4 degrees of downtilt, for both our 2 Meter and 440 MHz repeaters. I have found much better close in (0-30 Miles) coverage, less muti-path, and they cost quite a bit less than a Super Stationmaster. Good Luck and keep us posted with what you find for results. Joe - WA7JAW --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.comRepeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com, Gary - K7EK gary.k...@... wrote: Greetings, I am in a particularly sticky situation with one of my two meter repeaters in Lakewood, WA (Tacoma). I have generally great coverage, however there is a very annoying problem with multipath and raspy signals in a large portion of my coverage area. Since the Puget Sound area of Western Washington is very hilly and mountainous, multipath is very damaging to all forms of VHF communication. -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3108 - Release Date: 09/02/10 02:34:00
Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Running a Mastr II Repeater QRP
Yes, a screwdriver is your friend. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: dmur...@verizon.net To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Cc: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2010 12:21 PM Subject: Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Running a Mastr II Repeater QRP Installed a MSTR II VHF repeater in a six foot cabinet on top of a 17 story building. The elevator got me to the 14th floor but it took 4 of us to get it the other 3 flights. It is possible to haul without a hoist. Next time I do something like this I'm going to remove the repeater and power supply and carry the parts, not the whole repeater.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Duplexers
No problem. Most are in non-climate controlled environments. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: ka9qjg To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2010 1:42 PM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Duplexers Wow this must of Really been a Dumb question , No one answered it Don KA9QJG From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ka9qjg Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 9:07 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Duplexers Since We are on the Topic of Duplexers, And some claim there is no such thing as a Dumb Question but at the Risk of Asking one I will take a chance , I have the Wacom 4 can on My 220 System, The Question I have in a non controlled environment such as No Heat or Air Will the Duplexer have any problems inside with Condensation from Heating up in use and Cooling down Thanks Don KA9QJG
Re: [Repeater-Builder] DB212-3
I'd suggest using four if you have the tower real estate. Adjust each element individually on the tower up in the clear (not necessarily in the final location, but away from obstructions). I don't know how the harness was designed for three elements, but making one for four is easy. Each pigtail from the element must be the same length. Two elements combine with a tee, then a 35-ohm 1/4 wave matching section is needed. Do this for both halves of the antenna. Then take two equal lengths of 50-ohm cable to a final tee, then another 35-ohm matching section. From there it's 50-ohms. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: NORM KNAPP nkn...@twowayradio.net To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 11:51 AM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] DB212-3 Took down a set of DB212-3 dipoles in good shape with harness. I want to use them on 6m for a repeater antenna. I also want to add one additional dipole. I guess I will need to modify the harness and the dipoles as they are marked for 35.960 mhz I will be mounting all four (or 3) on one leg of a tower that is 4 feet on a face. Is it worth my while to go for the 4th dippole? The loops are 155 inches from tip to tip now. Looks like they need to be about 105 inches. Anyone with any tips, pointers or advise? Thanks
Re: [Repeater-Builder] DB212-3
Doug - Do you know how the phasing harness was constructed for the three-element version? I don't, and that's why I suggested to Norm that he go with four - the phasing harness is easy. Or, he could use two elements for transmit and one for receive. I don't know how much isolation he'll need, but he might just get away without a duplexer if there's enough tower. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: Doug Rehman d...@k4ac.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 2:28 PM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] DB212-3 In a previous life I managed the communications for a state police agency. We used 45 MHz for our main system and had forty some odd tower sites, almost all running DB212-3 antennas. Two of the sites were on 1000+ towers and used a single DB-212 element due to the large tower face and the great height. One was a repeater using a receive antenna at 1450' and a transmit antenna at 1350'. The other was a remote base station with the single loop at about 850'. As we were an investigative agency, almost all of the mobiles were using AM/FM disguise antennas. (Yeah, I know, but we were stuck with the band that the State Division of Communications had dictated...) Despite the radiating dummy load antennas, we had excellent mobile coverage in virtually all of the state. A consideration for DB212 antennas is that lining them up on one leg can make them pretty directional. For towers that were very close to the coast, I would put all three elements on a single leg, but skew them so that only one was pointed directly off of the leg. This seemed to give me a somewhat cardioid pattern, but with a little better pattern to the back than if all three elements were in line. Another consideration is that they were designed to be used on Rohn 45/55/65 sized tower. If you put them all on one leg, a larger tower face doesn't matter much except that the rearward pattern will likely have a larger null. Mounting them on all three legs of a larger face tower will result in reduced gain and a pretty messed up pattern. I don't know if I'd worry a whole lot about adding a fourth element- the three element antenna will deliver excellent results. Doug K4AC (Running for ARRL Southeastern Division Director- please check out my website at www.k4ac.com)
Re: [Repeater-Builder] DB212-3
Given what you need to do, I'd probably use a single element. The mast needs to extend above and below the ends of the element, the further you can, the better. I'd probably use a 20' schedule 80 aluminum pipe and center the element on it. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: Tim tahr...@swtexas.net To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 2:51 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] DB212-3 I'm glad somebody brought this up. I've got 2 of the DB212 antennas, without any phasing harness. The tower that the repeater is going up on is 90', wide spaced triangular tower (about 20' at the bottom 8' at the top). I'm just wondering if the work in building the harness, building the supports (the tower is not vertical, so I will have to 'make' a vertical support for them) is really worth the effort for an additional element. Seems I saw that with the 2 element configuration you only get about 2dB out of it. Doesn't seem like all the work is worth it. The reduced coverage off the back of the tower is not a concern. Just thought I'd throw this up into the wind. Thanks, Tim W5FN Yahoo! Groups Links No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3102 - Release Date: 08/30/10 02:35:00
Re: [Repeater-Builder] DB212-3
Doug, what were the State Police using for mobile radios back when you were involved? I'm finding that the newer, wider front end, radios don't hear as well as the old 0.5-1 MHz wide receivers did. I can hit my 6-meter repeater full quieting, yet sometimes can hardly hear it due to mobile environment noise that you can't avoid driving past (computers, LAN equipment, etc., etc.) Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: Doug Rehman To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 3:00 PM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] DB212-3 Unfortunately it’s been so many years since I handled one that I’m pretty foggy on the phasing harness. The manual on Repeater Builder http://www.repeater-builder.com/db/pdfs/db-212-assembly-and-mounting-instructions-(andrew).pdf shows the feeds from all three elements coming together, but doesn’t give a hint as to the length or impedance of each leg. If the original harness was retained, he should be able to reverse engineer it or shorten it if it’s still in good shape. I’ve got a DB212-1 sitting beside the house now to use on our clubhouse tower for a 6m PropNet beacon antenna. Too many projects… Doug K4AC (Running for ARRL Southeastern Division Director- please check out my website at www.k4ac.com)
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Trip lite
Swap the 723 chip and go from there. You might not need anything more. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: Ralph S. Turk To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 3:48 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Trip lite Anybody out there in radio land have schematics for Trip-lite power supplies. I have two PR 25A with different regulator boards. One works the other doesn't. Good ps 14vdc no load 13 vdc full load Bad ps15.8 vdc did not try a load yet. Bad unit has an updated regulator board so I can't compare apples to apples. Ralph, W7HSG -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3102 - Release Date: 08/30/10 02:35:00
Re: [Repeater-Builder] DB212-3
The radio I'm using in the mobile is a GE Orion with a noise blanker. However, a noise blanker is designed to help with impulse-type noise. Microprocessor hash and similar noise sources are continuous, so I doubt a blanker is very effective. The problem, in my mind, is the huge increase in this type of noise compared to 20 or 30 years ago. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: Oz-in-DFW To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 5:00 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] DB212-3 On 8/30/2010 2:08 PM, Chuck Kelsey wrote: Doug, what were the State Police using for mobile radios back when you were involved? I'm finding that the newer, wider front end, radios don't hear as well as the old 0.5-1 MHz wide receivers did. I can hit my 6-meter repeater full quieting, yet sometimes can hardly hear it due to mobile environment noise that you can't avoid driving past (computers, LAN equipment, etc., etc.) Chuck WB2EDV I'll bet 99-44/100% of this is the lack of an effective noise blanker. I was running a LB SyntorX 9000 at the peak of the last cycle and it ran rings around everything else. It ran FULL band 10 and 6. Bench sensitivity of all the radios were pretty close, but the moto mobile noise blankers were a major ( 10 dB) advantage. I'll bet those 'old' radios have good noise blankers. -- mailto:o...@ozindfw.net Oz POB 93167 Southlake, TX 76092 (Near DFW Airport)
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Running a Mastr II Repeater QRP
I agree with Jeff 100%. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: Jeff DePolo j...@broadsci.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 5:53 PM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Running a Mastr II Repeater QRP I don't know the current frequency, but suspect it's in the 460/465 MHz range. Will it move down into the 440s without a lot of grief? Yes. Also, I don't need anywhere near 100 watts, and need to avoid abusing the good nature and power bill of my landlord. (Also hope to have battery backup.) Can the 100-watt UHF PA be jumpered from an intermediate stage to the filter, bypassing the final? I seem to recall these would run at something in the 10-25-watt range with such a mod. The driver is 40 watts, just bypass the final board. But if you're really trying to safe your landlord's electric bill, the ferro power supply is really what you should be eliminating. That's a real beast of a vampire. Or, is this just gross overkill for a local repeater, and the Mitrek-based idea more appropriate? I'd go with the M2, hands down. --- Jeff WN3A
Re: [Repeater-Builder] dumb question: what is purpose of lock on Mitrek?
It simply locks the cover in place. You'll want a key anyway. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: KP3FT kp...@yahoo.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2010 12:09 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] dumb question: what is purpose of lock on Mitrek? Hi, I know it's a dumb question, but after scouring the internet for info, I find everything about locks and replacement keys for Motorolas and other radios, but I still don't know what locking the Mitrek actually does. Does it kill all power to the radio, or disable certain functions? I'm asking because I just acquired a low-band Mitrek that I need to power up and verify its working condition. It doesn't have a control head, so I need to use the front panel pins, but if the radio is locked, I may end up getting nowhere and still not know if it's either the radio that is bad, it is locked out, or I wired it wrong. This is the first Mitrek I've had. Thanks for any help. Jeff KP3FT Yahoo! Groups Links No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3100 - Release Date: 08/29/10 02:34:00
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Maxrad lowband mobile antenna
A discussion with a two-way dealer that I know indicated that the base-loaded low-band antennas can be a bit of a challenge to get them to play nice with the radio. The full-length whips seemed to be better, but no one wants one on their vehicle these days. Back when I ran a Motrac and a full 1/4 wave antenna, it worked well. The same dealer states that with the wide frequency coverage of today's radios, the performance dropped as the front end lets in more noise than the old radios that would only tune about 1 MHz. I would agree. I can be full quieting into a repeater, yet have difficulty hearing it because of all the desense caused by noise. A noise blanker doesn't help much when it is a continuous noise source. Report back with your findings. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: tahrens301 tahr...@swtexas.net To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2010 6:48 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Maxrad lowband mobile antenna Hi folks, I was given a couple of LB mobile antennas, and I have moved them up to 6 meters. (I drilled a hole in the plastic case, and shorted out 2 turns (soldered across them). It seemed to tune right up to 52 mhz. However, I noticed that the position on the back deck of my car really made a big difference in it's resonant frequency. I was using a MFJ259, and in one spot (not centered), I have a perfect 1:1 @ 50 ohms - a very pronounced 'dip'. When I move it around, the swr goes up, and the 'dip' is not as pronounced. The Bird confirms that the transmitter isn't as happy in other places on the back deck. The antenna is an effective quarter wave. Is this indicative of all LB mobile antennas, or just this type? I remember 'way back when', I used a full quarter wave on my car, and it tuned right up without any funnies. (big spring all). Thanks, Tim
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Narrowband Range -was- Seeking emergency system design help
And there is the issue of PL tone. Keep dropping the modulation level and decoding becomes tougher, at least with boards like ComSpec. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: wb6dgn wb6...@att.net To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 27, 2010 11:43 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Narrowband Range -was- Seeking emergency system design help OK. But with that kind of micro modulation, you're going to be dealing with problems more difficult to solve than frequency stability, though I agree that would be one of them. Tom --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, DCFluX dcf...@... wrote: I was talking about 1kHz and 100 Hz deviation, not 2.5kHz. On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 8:30 PM, wb6dgn wb6...@... wrote: As receiver bandwidth narrows, higher frequency stability is required. Handhelds with ovenized reference oscillators are not very practical. TCXOs are more than adequate to do the job. Typical frequency stability for a +-5.0kC system is 5ppm. TCXOs of 0.5ppm are common and not terribly expensive; more than 2.5 times more stable than conventional wisdom would claim necessary for 6.25kC bandwidth. If you use a good tight receiver with a reasonably quiet front end, there should be NO appreciable difference in range; the NB system could even be a bit better. Tom --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, DCFluX dcflux@ wrote: As receiver bandwidth narrows, higher frequency stability is required. Handhelds with ovenized reference oscillators are not very practical. On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 8:01 PM, Matthew Kaufman matthew@ wrote: On 8/27/2010 7:33 PM, larynl2 wrote: This has always interested me, and I've never seen a good technical reason for a loss of range with narrow deviation and receivers, either. Butsomewhere one must exist. If it didn't, there'd be no reason not to take analog deviation down to say, 1 kc., or 0.1 kc., would there? There are several good references online. A good balance between theory and understandability is at: http://urgentcomm.com/networks_and_systems/mag/narrowbanding-system-coverage-effect-201004/ and http://www.adcommeng.com/Narrowbanding_for_Technicians.pdf Essentially as the modulation index goes down, the difference between the modulated signal and noise becomes lower, and so more signal strength (to better saturate the FM receiver's detector) is required to compensate. And I don't think that knowing a repeater's tail signal strength doesn't change is an apples to apples comparison. It is all about intelligibility of the modulated signal, not the quieting of the unmodulated signal. In fact, for the unmodulated case the narrower IF filters make narrowband *better*. Matthew Kaufman Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3098 - Release Date: 08/27/10 14:34:00
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Seeking emergency system design help
I doubt that the D-Star amateur equipment (or any amateur equipment) is type-accepted for where you intend to use them. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: rudy_n2wq r_baka...@yahoo.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2010 1:08 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Seeking emergency system design help Hello, I am looking for some advice or even a systems integrator who can help me design and implement an emergency communication system for my employer, using an off-the-shelf repeater and radios. My current thinking is to use D-Star radios and a D-star repeater, modified to work on non-amateur frequencies. Since the radios will be in Manhattan, the idea is to place the repeater in our Newark, NJ office and use directional antennas for the repeater. We are trying to prepare for the possibility of the entire building being damaged and thus the idea to move the repeater across the river. 73, Rudy N2WQ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Seeking emergency system design help
It was Rudy looking, not Chuck. Chuck indicated that it is not legal. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: n5qs ygr...@white-tiger.org To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 27, 2010 3:11 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Seeking emergency system design help Chuck Please abandon the idea of using D-Star equipment modified for non amateur use. First this is ILLEGAL. 2nd there is no commercial equipment that I am aware of that is compatible without modification. I would suggest using Kenwood Nextedge technology. This is very similar in performance to the D-Star and has a bandwidth of 6.25 KHz on a simplex radio (Mototurbo can not operate at 6.25 KHz without infrastructure) The FCC has already stated that the 6.25 KHz bandwidth is coming they just don't give any date prediction and I would not design a NEW system that did not comply directly with the ability to use this bandwidth. This is probably the most stable technology in todays market that can be set up with off the shelf equipment. I am too far away to help but would be glad to advise any legal way that I can. Roger --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Chuck Kelsey wb2...@... wrote: I doubt that the D-Star amateur equipment (or any amateur equipment) is type-accepted for where you intend to use them. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: rudy_n2wq r_baka...@... To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2010 1:08 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Seeking emergency system design help Hello, I am looking for some advice or even a systems integrator who can help me design and implement an emergency communication system for my employer, using an off-the-shelf repeater and radios. My current thinking is to use D-Star radios and a D-star repeater, modified to work on non-amateur frequencies. Since the radios will be in Manhattan, the idea is to place the repeater in our Newark, NJ office and use directional antennas for the repeater. We are trying to prepare for the possibility of the entire building being damaged and thus the idea to move the repeater across the river. 73, Rudy N2WQ Yahoo! Groups Links No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3097 - Release Date: 08/27/10 02:34:00
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Can a Master 3 narroband
I'm guessing it was permitted back then. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: MCH m...@nb.net To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 27, 2010 3:26 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Can a Master 3 narroband How did they handle this back in the 60s/70s when I remember seeing Adjusted for narrowband +/- 5 kHz stickers on the radios? Were those factory stickers? Joe M. Eric Lemmon wrote: Tom, The narrowbanding kit produced by Communications Specialists and others is for the receiver section, and does not affect the transmitter section. The emission mask specified by the FCC for mandatory narrow band operation must be incorporated by the equipment manufacturer and then tested by an FCC-approved agency. This process has never been in the hands of the owner or user, despite widespread popular belief to the contrary. Simply reducing the deviation to a lower setting does not magically make a transmitter narrow band compliant; the limiting circuitry must be modified as well. Moreover, the FCC Type Acceptance for both the MSR2000 and the Mitrek does not include narrow band (11K2F3E) emissions. Naturally, these requirements apply only to commercial usage under Part 90 Rules. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tom Manning Sent: Friday, August 27, 2010 10:57 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Can a Master 3 narroband Hello Jim I note your message about narrowbanding and the comment about the MSR2000. I have seen no info on doing so but it seems to me that the MSR200 could be narrowbanded. The MSR is very similar to the Mitrek and it can be narrowbanded by using a kit by a company that slips my mind. Therefore I feel narrowbanding would be possible. I will be attempting this in six months or so. 73 de Tom Manning, AF4UG - Original Message - From: Jim in Waco WB5OXQ mailto:wb5...@grandecom.net To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 27, 2010 10:07 AM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Can a Master 3 narroband I have a uhf master 4 that has been used for years as a paging exciter. Now the pager business is in the tank I would like to make the master 3 into aq repeater for commercial needs to replace a msr2000 because the msr cannot narroband. If the ge can't either I dont want to waste time and just buy a new repeater that can narroband. wb5...@grandecom.net Yahoo! Groups Links Internal Virus Database is out of date. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.783 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2746 - Release Date: 03/14/10 03:33:00 Yahoo! Groups Links No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3097 - Release Date: 08/27/10 02:34:00
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Seeking emergency system design help
You mean like making all the over-the-air TV stations buy new transmitters to go to DTV only to introduce a proposal to take over-the-air frequencies away to make them available to wireless (cellphone, etc.) Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: MCH m...@nb.net To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 27, 2010 3:53 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Seeking emergency system design help Interesting. A competing dealer is telling everyone they have to be using digital by 2013. Yes, of course it's a lie, but they no doubt make more on digital systems than they do analog. On the larger scope, I can't wait to hear the uproar when/if the FCC tells everyone who just purchased new SNFM equipment that they have to buy new equipment AGAIN. Joe M.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Seeking emergency system design help
Well no.. they were talking about the UHF spectrum where 95% of the TV moved to. There's very little OTA on low band, a little more on high band. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: Bill Smith To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 27, 2010 4:39 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Seeking emergency system design help Yes... 54-88 MHz cellphones would be cool. Back to the big old rubber ducks. LOL. --
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Seeking emergency system design help
A few years ago I spoke with someone from MA-Com about this and they indicated that most of the time users would experience a loss in coverage. I don't remember why they said most of the time, but there must be variables somewhere. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: Andrew Seybold To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 27, 2010 9:16 PM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Seeking emergency system design help Bill one of the losses if a County fire department system which has 6 simulcast repeaters( 150 MHz) operating on wide-band with about 85% coverage of the County, and we put in three new channels (after almost 2 years of coordination and finding the correct channels), we put them up using the same sights and same output (50 watts erp) and using the same antennas—the new 3 channels under talk the existing wide-band systems by at least 30 percent. We are in the process of adding 2 new sites to make up the difference. I am glad that you did not have a problem but this is just one of several which I have had a problem with, and I have become a believer in lost coverage, I have yet to see a system that has not lost coverage, I am glad that you have. Andy
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Adding capacitors to lower electric bill
Like a bad penny, this urban legend just keeps coming back. -- Eric Lemmon. Yes, I agree. However, the post that I made (and started all of this again) didn't make claim as to whether the capacitor trick worked or didn't work. I feel that it has no impact, unless you are being billed for reactive demand, and most of us are not. I was simply trying to seek out an individual whom I believe posted about this here, some time ago. He insisted that his electric bill at, I believe, three repeater sites as well as his house, dropped considerably when he added a fixed value capacitor across the line. Again, I had serious doubts at the time, but he was adamant about it. Anyway, my recent post was to follow up on this guy. What triggered it was the fact that I just ran into a ham who had purchased one of the commercially available energy savers and was questioning it's performance (he didn't think it worked). I asked him if the utility meter was electronic or whether it was one of the old spinning disk units, to which he said electronic. I had posed the question about altering the PF to an electrical engineer that I know. He gave me all the engineering basis like I'd expected, but then added an interesting comment. He was uncertain if a spinning disk meter would remain accurate if the PF was forced way out of specification - he left that hint of doubt. He then said that he was certain that the newer, electronic meters would record accurately regardless of the PF. Now, the guy that was adamant about beating the system had indicated that in every one of his experiments the meter was the older spinning disk unit. I suspect that the utility company eventually came out and replaced the meters. The guy said that it made a big enough difference that the utility had contacted him about the drop in usage. So, maybe the guy was jerking me (us) around, or maybe the utility installed new meters and the savings went poof, or maybe the guy is sitting in jail, not able to respond. And maybe it was on a different Yahoo group and I'm experiencing brain fade. I certainly didn't intend to create all the hubbub. But I felt the need to jump back in and explain further. Chuck WB2EDV
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Adding capacitors to lower electric bill
Correct. That was the intended route should it happen again with said customer - terminate service. Period. After the electric incident, the water was already being estimated in favor of the utility because that account was showing as a stopped meter. Later discovered to be a tampered meter. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: Bill Smith To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2010 1:24 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Adding capacitors to lower electric bill The answer is simple. The electric company refuses to provide service to that location. Or, installs a tamperproof cover over the meter, relocates the meter up on the pole, or installs a new electronic meter. They can also go by historical use data for that property and sue the customer for it. --
Re: [Repeater-Builder] made a rpt
It is: Hello everyone anyone have a simple scheme of a controller card that could handle two repeater VHF radio plus a link on uhf, 2 and GM300 maxtrac of motorola. thanks Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: Rodrigo Lima limoidefilho...@itelefonica.com.br To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2010 10:21 AM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] made a rpt ola a todos alguem teria um esquema simples de uma placa controladora de repetidora que pudesse controlar dois radios de vhf e mais um link em uhf, sendo 2 gm300 e um maxtrac da motorola .obrigado (moderators note:) Can someone post a translation so that the non-spanish peakers can help this gentleman? Yahoo! Groups Links No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3087 - Release Date: 08/22/10 02:35:00
Re: [Repeater-Builder] made a rpt
Correct. - Original Message - From: Gordon Cooper zl...@nzart.org.nz To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2010 4:46 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] made a rpt The gentleman's address is Brazil, you need Portugese, not Spanish. Gordon ZL1KL Yahoo! Groups Links No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3087 - Release Date: 08/22/10 02:35:00
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Adding capacitors to lower electric bill
Yes, I agree with this. The discussion originally centered around doing this at repeater sites. I'm just attempting to gather more info from the guy who said it worked. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: ae6zm wesbfl...@surewest.net To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2010 12:17 AM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Adding capacitors to lower electric bill When in comes to matters of science, there will always be some who step forward with anecdotal 'evidence' that they have experienced something that contradicts accepted scientific knowledge. Using caps to reduce your power bill is one of those myths. Your power meter is a true watt meter, and is very carefully designed and tested to measure, react to and record only true watts, and not react to reactive power. (pun!!) Yes, installing corrective capacitors can reduce your power bill, but not because it changes your meter reading; it doesn't. For industrial users, a poor PF results in penalty charges from the utility, and improving the PF by adding capacitive VAs ( or KVAs) can reduce the penalties, thereby reducing your bill. This is not really a repeater topic, but power bills are a real part of repeater use, so it is useful to understand the real 'science'. Wes AE6ZM VE7ELE GROL/RADAR ARRL Technical Specialist Lincoln, CA CM98iv --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Bon Hal bhbru...@... wrote: Bill: Check this out. Is It possible that the device might actually reduce electrical usage? Hal - Original Message - From: Paul Plack To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 9:27 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Adding capacitors to lower electric bill One company supplying power factor correction capacitors promotes their use on inductive loads only, where it might be a legitimate claim: http://www.greenenergycube.com/index.php?support-documentation 73, Paul, AE4KR Yahoo! Groups Links No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3084 - Release Date: 08/20/10 14:35:00
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Adding capacitors to lower electric bill
Guess I should have done a message archive search. I didn't mean to start all this. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: Gary Schafer To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2010 5:17 PM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Adding capacitors to lower electric bill The guy did ok on the first part explaining how power factor works but fell down when it comes to the save money part. The utilities do not charge you extra or give you a break if you do or don't have any power factor correction. Unless you are an industrial customer. I have seen demonstrations at shows where the guy trying to sell consumers power factor correction devices had a motor and an ammeter showing current draw. He then switches in a capacitor and shows you how the current drops and shows you how volts times amps reduces the wattage used. Only problem is the electric meter doesn't care what the power factor is! So the utility will bill you the same amount if you use power factor correction or not in your home. The other thing involved if you are going to do power factor correction is that it needs to be done on EACH motor or inductive device. If you just hang a capacitor across the main power line of the proper size when all motors are running it will correct that. But when a motor or other inductive device is shut down and the capacitor is still across the line, now it will have a capacitive load rather than an inductive load. Same problem; capacitive current that is out of phase. You can hook a large AC capacitor across your power line and measure the current thru it. It may look like you are drawing a lot of power thru it but the meter will not see it. Yes it cost the utility more to generate that extra current whether it be capacitive or inductive but you don't pay for it. If the utility was really worried about it they would give incentives for high power factor equipment or they would bill you like they do in industry. We are small potatoes to them. Trying to sell power factor correction to home owners and small business' is a scam. You save nothing on your bill! 73 Gary K4FMX
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Adding capacitors to lower electric bill
Well, I tried a search and came up empty. Maybe it was another group. Oh well. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: Chuck Kelsey To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2010 9:24 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Adding capacitors to lower electric bill Guess I should have done a message archive search. I didn't mean to start all this. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: Gary Schafer To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2010 5:17 PM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Adding capacitors to lower electric bill The guy did ok on the first part explaining how power factor works but fell down when it comes to the save money part. The utilities do not charge you extra or give you a break if you do or don't have any power factor correction. Unless you are an industrial customer. SNIP
Re: [Repeater-Builder] antenna plan
I didn't answer because I didn't have a good one. I think what you were going to try has a high likelihood of not working well. You didn't saw what band, as I recall. I'd stick with a single antenna. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: Paul Holm To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 10:25 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] antenna plan Hopefully it is not uncool to be the first to respond to one's own post. I'll take the fact that there was no flood of flames, or naysayers, to indicate that my plan is worth attempting. So as a follow-up question, I would ask, could anyone offer recommendations for a yagi, corner reflector, or other directional antenna, suitable for duplex use, with a beamwidth of no less than 30deg and a gain of no less than say 7dB? 73 Paul - Original Message - From: Paul Holm I'm looking for input on an antenna plan. I'd like to change to an ellliptical pattern that favors the bigger town in the county which is roughly at 270 deg west and about 6 miles away. I'd like to take a yagi or corner reflector and mount it lower, at the railing or a short distance up the mast, and point it at the town I'd like to focus on -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3082 - Release Date: 08/19/10 14:35:00
Re: [Repeater-Builder] antenna plan
Then I'd take a DB-224 antenna and point the elements toward your desired areas. If you split and mount another antenna elsewhere, you are going to create a highly unpredictable pattern with two different radiation centers, creating multipath possibilities. At least that's my take. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: Paul Holm To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 9:04 AM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] antenna plan Sorry. VHF. - Original Message - From: Chuck Kelsey I didn't answer because I didn't have a good one. I think what you were going to try has a high likelihood of not working well. You didn't saw what band, as I recall. I'd stick with a single antenna. Chuck WB2EDV -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3083 - Release Date: 08/20/10 02:35:00
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Motorola style Rack Clip Nuts
I agree with Skip. I always considered Tinnerman nuts as a one-sided unit, often used a few years back in the automotive industry. They also called them speed nuts. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: skipp025 skipp...@yahoo.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 4:35 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Motorola style Rack Clip Nuts Have a look (obviously the stainless one is on the right): http://www.arcomcontrollers.com/clips.jpg I've not heard this model U, C, Clip Nut ever called a Tinnerman, but McMaster-Carr sells it as a Clip-Nut. As a general rule I believe Tinnerman Nuts are normally one sided. I call it a U-Style Clip-Nut and they are obviously available in many flavors. http://www.mcmaster.com/#clip-on-nuts/=8hn41l It's McMaster-Carr so hold on to your wallet... but they do have everything. And they won't send out a Paper Catalog unless you have a previously verified connection with some higher authority. So use their fairly decent on-line catalog... They also deserve credit for super fast shipping. cheers, s. Yahoo! Groups Links No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3083 - Release Date: 08/20/10 02:35:00
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Intermod Calculation
Does the entire page happen, or does it abruptly stop part way through some of the time? Partial page would indicate to me that another transmitter is in the mix and dropping before the pager does. However, I had a situation where there were four paging sites scattered in the county on the same frequency and one of the transmitters was spurious and getting into my receiver. In that case, I always heard the entire page, but only when that particular transmitter came up. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: Tim - WD6AWP tisaw...@gmail.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 7:27 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Intermod Calculation It occurs whether or not the repeater transmitter is keyed. --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Jeff DePolo j...@... wrote: Before we get into the math, an important question that needs to be answered is whether or not this mix occurs when your repeater transmitter is unkeyed. --- Jeff WN3A -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tim Sawyer Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 6:36 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Intermod Calculation I have paging intermod from 157.740 Mhz. My receiver is on 144.540 Mhz. I'm 100% sure there is another transmitter involved in the mix because sometimes the pager is transmitting and I have no interference. I have an intermod calculator program but it wants all the known transmitters and the target receiver. But I need to solve for an unknown transmitter. Is there a way to calculate the other possible soruce(s)? -- Tim :wq Yahoo! Groups Links No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3084 - Release Date: 08/20/10 14:35:00
[Repeater-Builder] Adding capacitors to lower electric bill
A while back, maybe a year or two ago, there was a discussion on here where a list member had success adding a capacitor to his electric service which reduced his bill. It was debated for a while. Anyway, I am wondering if the utility company ever came and replaced the spinning disk meters with electronic versions, and if so, what the outcome was. Could the original poster respond either here or privately? I just today had a similar discussion with another ham who tried essentially the same thing with no success - only his was a commercial model, so it cost him considerably more. Chuck WB2EDV
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Adding capacitors to lower electric bill
That's my take, but someone on here insisted otherwise based on testing he had done. I spoke with an electrical engineer who said the same thing, but then he wondered out loud if it could be possible if the power factor was shifted to an extreme with a spinning disk meter. He opined that an electronic meter wouldn't be fooled. Of course shifting the PF to an extreme would be a basis for utility company action. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: Gary Schafer gascha...@comcast.net To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 9:06 PM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Adding capacitors to lower electric bill You won't see any difference. The electric meter reads true power not VA. 73 Gary K4FMX -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Repeater- buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chuck Kelsey Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 8:00 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Adding capacitors to lower electric bill A while back, maybe a year or two ago, there was a discussion on here where a list member had success adding a capacitor to his electric service which reduced his bill. It was debated for a while. Anyway, I am wondering if the utility company ever came and replaced the spinning disk meters with electronic versions, and if so, what the outcome was. Could the original poster respond either here or privately? I just today had a similar discussion with another ham who tried essentially the same thing with no success - only his was a commercial model, so it cost him considerably more. Chuck WB2EDV Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3084 - Release Date: 08/20/10 14:35:00
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Intermod Calculation
I agree, if you don't hear anything else in the mix, and it pretty much happens for the full length of the page, it's likely a spur on the paging transmitter, at least that's what I'd be looking at. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: MCH m...@nb.net To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 10:46 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Intermod Calculation Could be a spur. Can you hear any other audio with the page? (ever) Joe M. Tim Sawyer wrote: It seems to pick up most of the page. Occasionally the beginning is missing or it will get just the very end. It always seems to drop at the same time as the page. -- Tim :wq On Aug 20, 2010, at 4:38 PM, Chuck Kelsey wrote: Does the entire page happen, or does it abruptly stop part way through some of the time? Partial page would indicate to me that another transmitter is in the mix and dropping before the pager does. However, I had a situation where there were four paging sites scattered in the county on the same frequency and one of the transmitters was spurious and getting into my receiver. In that case, I always heard the entire page, but only when that particular transmitter came up. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: Tim - WD6AWP tisaw...@gmail.com mailto:tisawyer%40gmail.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 7:27 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Intermod Calculation It occurs whether or not the repeater transmitter is keyed. --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com, Jeff DePolo j...@... wrote: Before we get into the math, an important question that needs to be answered is whether or not this mix occurs when your repeater transmitter is unkeyed. --- Jeff WN3A -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tim Sawyer Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 6:36 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Intermod Calculation I have paging intermod from 157.740 Mhz. My receiver is on 144.540 Mhz. I'm 100% sure there is another transmitter involved in the mix because sometimes the pager is transmitting and I have no interference. I have an intermod calculator program but it wants all the known transmitters and the target receiver. But I need to solve for an unknown transmitter. Is there a way to calculate the other possible soruce(s)? -- Tim :wq Yahoo! Groups Links -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com http://www.avg.com Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3084 - Release Date: 08/20/10 14:35:00 Yahoo! Groups Links No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3084 - Release Date: 08/20/10 14:35:00 Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: repeater-builder-dig...@yahoogroups.com repeater-builder-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: repeater-builder-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Polyphaser Question
OK, yes, you have severely limited your chances of being protected. I'd hazard a guess that it would be a fraction of a percent better than having no protection at all. Your condom has a hole in it ;-) Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: Joe k1ike_m...@snet.net To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2010 8:34 AM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Polyphaser Question I don't think that you have necessarily wasted your time, but you have severely limited your chances of decreasing lightning damage. It's like replacing 3 tires on your car that has 4 bad tires, you've bettered your odds but it is not the best fix. I have a site that the owner would throw me off if I started installing single;e point grounding and all kinds of wiring. I use a grounded Polyphasor in hopes that it will decrease my odds of lightning damage. Yes, the purist will say that this is wrong, but it's not my site and I'm a guest. That's the deal and I accept it. It's a case of something is better than nothing. 73, Joe, K1ike On 8/17/2010 10:42 PM, Chuck Kelsey wrote: Leave one unprotected path available and you've wasted your time. Chuck WB2EDV
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Polyphaser Question
Well, at least we can say you've lost some PolyPhasers in the process. Whether they've helped is anyone's guess. Yes, I've got some equipment in different locations with what I feel less than adequate protection. My point was essentially making people aware that by simply putting a suppression device on a single I/O port, while others receive none, and a poor grounding system, isn't going to give a high level of protection. If one chooses to proceed knowing this, then that's a personal decision. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: Joe k1ike_m...@snet.net To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2010 9:26 AM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Polyphaser Question Better than a fraction of a percent protection. I've lost a couple of polyphasors in the years, but never had lightning damage. I'm a realist, everything isn't perfect all of the time. 73, Joe, K1ike
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Polyphaser Question
And to not create (or leave) a path for current flow to destroy equipment. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: Gary Schafer To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2010 8:39 PM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Polyphaser Question Here is a little primer on lightning: [SNIP] The whole idea is to keep everything at the same voltage level when a strike occurs. 73 Gary K4FMX
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Polyphaser Question
If you are buying used, buyer beware. They could be shot. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: Michael Ryan To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 11:12 AM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Polyphaser Question Thanks a lot.I see them on QTH.com for sale once in a while. I just posted an ad looking for one. '73, Mike From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of petedcur...@gmail.com Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 11:03 AM To: Repeater-Builder Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Polyphaser Question Hi Michael, Probably for 220MHZ choose between VHF50HN-ME for high powered TX or multiple TX'sand a IS-B50LN-C0-MA is for a single normal power TX. These have the N connectors sexed as you want.Check the power rating of each device at your frequency. Peter On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 2:51 AM, Michael Ryan mryan...@tampabay.rr.com wrote: I notice when looking at the Polyphaser website, there are a wide range of products, even a wide variety of items that on the surface appear to be suited to my particular needs. I want to put a Polyphaser on my 220 repeater. There are DC blocked and unblocked. I don't suppose it matters in that area as there is no DC going up the coax. There are freq ranges, 1.5-400 and 100 - 700 mhz, etc, etc.. Is it best to select a model that places my operating freq somewhere in the middle of the unit's operating range or does that matter as long as it IS WITHIN the range of the device someplace? I need the protected end to be an N-female and the antenna end to be and N-Male. Suggestions? - Mike __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5371 (20100816) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5373 (20100817) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5373 (20100817) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5373 (20100817) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3077 - Release Date: 08/17/10 02:35:00
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Polyphaser Question
Usually, from any reports I've seen, they can exhibit higher than normal VSWR and/or loss if they've seen better days. So, yes, they could still pass RF and not be good. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: Michael Ryan To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 3:02 PM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Polyphaser Question Chuck, Thanks for that.wouldn't still pass RF if they are blown will they? - m
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Polyphaser Question
Wasn't there a capacitor too? Seems like there was in one I saw open. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: David Jordan To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 4:44 PM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Polyphaser Question I recently opened up a Polyphaser unit we used on one of our remote sites. it covered both 2m and 70cm. We were experiencing poor receive at the site. Replaced the unit and receiver sensitivity is once again hot. Anyone want pics of the insides respond direct and I'll ship you the photos.not much to see. a gas tube and what looks like a surface mount resistor in series with the gas tube. 73, Dave Wa3gin
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Polyphaser Question
Actually Eric brings up the more important aspect of lightning protection. Simply installing a PolyPhaser on your antenna line won't cut it. A single-point grounding panel where your transmission lines, power, telephone, etc. are all run through protective devices and then are tied in to a ground system is necessary. Leave one unprotected path available and you've wasted your time. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: Eric Lemmon wb6...@verizon.net To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 9:53 PM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Polyphaser Question Mike, Perhaps the best course is to choose the unit with the highest Joule rating that meets your power level and frequency ratings. Do not buy a DC-blocked unit if you don't need that feature, because the capacitor is usually the first component to fail. Do not buy a used unit, because it was pulled from service for a reason- probably because the gas tube has reached the end of life due to multiple firings. Finally, be certain that you have a robust grounding connection from the PolyPhaser to Mother Earth; do not depend on the green wire conductor in the power cord to provide this connection. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Strange noise on our club repeater
Sounds like intermod involving your repeater's transmitter as part of the mix. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: Robert kd4...@juno.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2010 7:32 AM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Strange noise on our club repeater We have a MSR2000 for our club repeater. Every so often on a weak signal we get a noise that sounds like...well you know when you go to the dentist and get your teeth cleaned. The little tube that they put in your mouth and sucks all the spit out. Wel... that is on the tail of some signals, sometimes. (sorry for the gross analogy ;-) This only happens a few times a day and not often on a stronger signal. When the user unkeys, it will have the sucking sound for a second or sometimes a few seconds...then the squelch closes. The user has unkeyed...but the repeater stays keyed up with the noise. We know that there are some strong signals near by the input. Also with the input at 144.61... there is a DStar repeater with a input of 144.60 up the road by 30 miles or so. Also... we have pretty fair amount of APRS traffic in the area (digi about 8 miles away). Ideas? Robert KD4YDC
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Coax length, etc.
FWIW, TX/RX Systems talks about adverse length cable between the transmitter and the duplexer in their technical papers. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: Jeff DePolo j...@broadsci.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2010 8:44 AM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Coax length, etc. Because the impedance is not matched between the transmitter and duplexer, the 'apparent' loss of the duplexer is greater than the manufacturers stated loss of the duplexer. Changing the cable length is not changing the loss of the duplexer, it's changing the power that is accepted at the transmitter port of the duplexer by matching the output impedance of the transmitter to the input impedance of the transmitter port of the duplexer. But if the duplexer is tuned to 50 ohms, and the cable is 50 ohms, varying the cable length isn't going to change the Z seen by the transmitter. Or are you suggesting the duplexer is purposely de-tuned from 50 ohms? And also that by varying the cable length between the transmitter and the duplexer that you can vary the reflected power on that same line? Yes. With all due respect, that's not possible, regardless of what the Z is of the duplexer. The only time it could have an effect on the reflected power would be if the transmitter/PA were spurious, and the amplitude/frequency of the spurs changed with varying load Z, and I think we can both agree that if that's the case, we have bigger fish to fry. Not to belabor the point, but whatever the VSWR is on a length of transmission line, that's the VSWR that's on the line *regardless of length*. You can't change the VSWR by changing the length of the line. As you vary the length, you go round n' round the Smith Chart in a constant VSWR circle, with the Z repeating cyclicly every half-wavelength, but you've still got a complex Z that nets a 1:5:1 VSWR relative to 50 ohms at the end of whatever length of line you choose (cable loss effects notwithstanding). There are an infinite number of complex Z's that yield a 1.5:1 VSWR - cut the line to any random length and you'll hit one of them. In a situation where the duplexer and transmitter have differing impedances, and a cable optimized in length matches these impedances, the mismatch at the duplexer is minimized, therefore the power reflected by the duplexer is minimized. I think what you're really saying is that the mismatch at the *input to the matching section* (i.e. the cable between the PA and the duplexer), NOT the mismatch at the duplexer, is minimized. The duplexer's input Z isn't changing; you can't change that unless you re-tune the cavities or change the load at the antenna port. Whether or that the transmitter likes/dislikes the different Z it sees as you change cable lengths is, I guess, what's up for debate... I have found that when you get a transmitter that is 'picky' about the length of interconnecting cable, power being read at the output port of the duplexer is low and you cannot alter the tuning of the cavity closest to the transmitter to make things right. In other words, the place where lowest VSWR and maximum power transfer occurs is at two completely different places, and power transfer is not up where it should be (transmitter makes 100 watts into a dummy load but only shows 50 watts on the output port of the duplexer that has a stated 1.5 dB loss (29 %)). That would imply that either duplexer is presenting a load Z substantially far removed from 50+j0, OR the transmitter doesn't like a 50 ohm load, or something inbetween, would it not? As you get close to the 'optimum' cable length, the lowest VSWR and maximum power transfer occur near the same place when tuning the cavity closest to the transmitter. But again, *you're NOT changing the VSWR*! You can't change the VSWR by varying the length of the line! I just want to make sure we're on the same page - the VSWR on a transmission line doesn't vary with length (loss notwithstanding). I usually pay more attention to what is coming out the antenna port of the duplexer - first. Then, when things are right, comparing forward power going to the duplexer and power going to a good dummy load will be very close the same, since matching the impedance of the transmitter to the impedance of the duplexer was accomplished by some means. Can you give me some real-world examples of what combinations of duplexers and transmitters you've run across that just didn't want to play nice without having to resort to changing cable lengths? Like a highband Micor 110 watt H split paired with a Q2220E or whatever. I'm just curious if I've done any of the same combinations. I think you know me well enough by now Kevin that I'm not looking to pick a fight, I'm just a hard-ass when it comes to basing technique on solid engineering foundation. I can't say I've ever had to play with
[Repeater-Builder] Cable lengths
Here's an excerpt from a TX RX publication that ties in with this discussion Adverse cable length between Duplexer and transmitter using varactor or broadband hybrid combining type transmitter outputs. Even though the Duplexer VSWR is flat on frequency, the reflected impedance of the Duplexer off resonance, transformed by changing cable lengths, can cause parasitics to be generated. Change the length of cable between the transmitter and duplexer, traversing through a half wave in increments of between 1 and 2 inches until the desensitization ceases or is minimal. A ferrite isolator will also cure this condition when it is installed between the transmitter and duplexer. However, this is a much more expensive remedy. Chuck WB2EDV
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: unsubscribe (reading yahoo group posts - a butter way - no popcorn)
I'm the opposite. I want all my email dumped in one inbox. I'm afraid if it gets sorted to different folders, something's bound to get missed. Just like the mailman puts all my snail mail in one mailbox. Works just fine. Same reason I prefer list servers to forums - I don't want to have to go and look somewhere. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: Nate Duehr n...@natetech.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2010 8:41 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: unsubscribe (reading yahoo group posts - a butter way - no popcorn) On Aug 14, 2010, at 12:57 PM, Scott Zimmerman wrote: I am subscribed to all of my groups in 'single e-mail' form. I have configured Thunderbird to sort those groups into individual folders. By doing this, I can look at things in a digest mode. If I want to get rid of a bunch at one clip, I can select all and hit delete. Just my 2c worth of ideas. Scott I agree with Scott, and take this one step further. I use an IMAP server (the real deal, not Microsoft's wacked-out IMAP in Exchange), and have the *server* sort all the mail into folders before it ever even gets looked at by my mail client software.
[Repeater-Builder] Stolen Equipment Alert
From another list: Last Thursday , 8-5-2010 We had a Agilent model E4405B Spectrum Analyzer boosted (Stolen) from our transmitter Facility (Chalet Building) here on Delta College Campus Near Bay City Michigan .No forcible entry and no other items taken other then a box of coax adaptors for the analyzer. This happen during the day between 9 am and 6 pm . The serial number is MY41440418. Our thoughts are that someone knew the entry code and knew what the Agilent was . If for some chance you hear of a spectrum analyzer for sale please inquire on it or just contact me and let me know so I can forward it on to the police . The replacement cost is 31,000 dollars . I have contacted Agilent and notified them of the theft and I have a E-bay search out also ...I will check Craig's list as time allows . If you have any other sources that deal's with used equipment for sale .I would appreciate if you would forward this information on to them or keep your eyes open for it . I am hoping the insurance will cover this as I will sorely miss this wonderful Diagnostic tool . Ours had a built in signal generator option and had a grey protection cover for the front . Thanks David Nuechterlein Q-TV , WDCQ TV 15 PBS , WUCX 90.1 NPR Delta College / Delta Broadcasting , Engineering Dept A045 Frank N. Andersen Broadcast Building 1961 Delta Rd. University Center Michigan 48710 989 686 9341 Office 989 326 0051 Mobile Office
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Another stolen repeater (California)
My bad. Not paying close enough attention. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: Eric Lemmon wb6...@verizon.net To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 8:31 PM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Another stolen repeater (California) Chuck, Negative. The contact info you just posted was regarding an Agilent model E4405B Spectrum Analyzer. My posting was regarding Another Stolen Repeater with which David Nuechterlein has no connection. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chuck Kelsey Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 5:21 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Another stolen repeater (California) The contact info was in the original post. It is: David Nuechterlein Q-TV , WDCQ TV 15 PBS , WUCX 90.1 NPR Delta College / Delta Broadcasting , Engineering Dept A045 Frank N. Andersen Broadcast Building 1961 Delta Rd. University Center Michigan 48710 989 686 9341 Office 989 326 0051 Mobile Office - Original Message - From: Eric Lemmon wb6...@verizon.net mailto:wb6fly%40verizon.net To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 8:13 PM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Another stolen repeater (California) Gee, It would be VERY helpful if the actual Telecom Service Number and the actual CDF Property Number were provided, up front, along with a TELEPHONE NUMBER to report finding this unit! 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY Yahoo! Groups Links No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3064 - Release Date: 08/11/10 02:34:00
Re: [Repeater-Builder] TKR-750 Crunchy/Grungy Weak Signal Audio
Probably the LMR-400 cable is the cause. Well documented and discussed here regularly. Are the other repeaters with the same problem also using the same type cable? Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: Bob - AF6D b...@af6d.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 4:46 AM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] TKR-750 Crunchy/Grungy Weak Signal Audio My 2 meter TKR has worked fine for about a year but has always had a problem on our frequent weak signals. We're a mountain community and CERT/RACES/ARES/Skywarn users are often on HT's. There are a couple of towers in the neighborhood at 6,400 feet over southern California (it's kewl living at a repeater site) and on my own gear I don't hear anything on a weak signal beyond the norm. But on the TKR it just sounds dirty. Grungy. Crunchy. There are commercial sites within one mile with high power paging but we've detected no intermod. We did have a bout were grungy audio was breaking PL and hanging until timeout. But that went away. The Wacom 6 cavity WP-642 is tuned dead on and offers excellent isolation and rejection (at a cost of 2-3dB loss on TX sigh). Another TKR user at a high elevation commercial site reports similar experiences. Yet another TKR owner reported that his is excellent and yes the audio is good. Just not for us on weak signals. He suggested perhaps an RFI issue but from where? Our installation is modest and constrained only by my lack of time and funds. My daughter is sick and I live in a hospital with her, so be gentle HI HI. The very large guard dog watches the house. The antenna is a Hustler G5-144 tuned with a MFJ 259, dead on and above the repeater through an insulated roof by about 30 feet. We have no desense. It is fed with LMR-400 just because I haven't put hard line on it. No preamps are installed. At 6,400 feet not much is needed. The receiver is .18uV. The TKR hears very well compared to my FT-847 with an antenna 20 feet lower. Why the grungy audio? Yahoo! Groups Links No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3059 - Release Date: 08/08/10 13:57:00
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: TKR-750 Crunchy/Grungy Weak Signal Audio
I'd still start with changing the cable and getting all LMR-400 (or similar) out of the system - no jumpers, etc. There are people who will tell you that they've gotten away using this type of cable, but the manufacturers admit it's not a low PIM cable. And I've seen it cause problems time and time again. If it's not the problem now, it likely will be later. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: Bob - AF6D b...@af6d.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 2:10 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: TKR-750 Crunchy/Grungy Weak Signal Audio No, they use hard line. Other suggestions is a repeater output 15KHz off of our input that is pulling the receive over. I've got hard line just no time. We were buried under snow for months and then when it cleared my daughter started chemo. No time. But I'll have to make time. --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Chuck Kelsey wb2...@... wrote: Probably the LMR-400 cable is the cause. Well documented and discussed here regularly. Are the other repeaters with the same problem also using the same type cable? Chuck WB2EDV
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Help ID'ing this board
I believe it may be this: http://www.repeater-builder.com/ge/lbi-library/lbi-4982c.pdf Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: Steve Denbow To: repeater-builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2010 12:04 AM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Help ID'ing this board Hello Group! I have this board (the one on the RIGHT) in a high band MASTR II station operating as a 2M repeater. The board on the LEFT is out of a sister station, which I have information on. I can not find information on this board (RIGHT) doing a search of the LBI's on the RB site. A Google search only comes up with a MASTR Exec II vehicular repeater, which none of the boards in it resemble this board. It appears to have a preamp built into it, and is part of the receiver IF section, but that's about all I can figure out looking at it. Any help would be appreciated! Thanks in advance! Steve KD8BIW KD8BIW/R 224.580 PL 110.9 Sponsors: KA8GKT, KD8FTR, KD8IYX http://www.kd8biw.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3049 - Release Date: 08/03/10 10:22:00
[Repeater-Builder] ID on GE Board
Re-sending because I never saw my post come through. You may see it twice. Chuck WB2EDV I believe it may be this: http://www.repeater-builder.com/ge/lbi-library/lbi-4982c.pdf Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: Steve Denbow To: repeater-builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2010 12:04 AM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Help ID'ing this board Hello Group! I have this board (the one on the RIGHT) in a high band MASTR II station operating as a 2M repeater. The board on the LEFT is out of a sister station, which I have information on. I can not find information on this board (RIGHT) doing a search of the LBI's on the RB site. A Google search only comes up with a MASTR Exec II vehicular repeater, which none of the boards in it resemble this board. It appears to have a preamp built into it, and is part of the receiver IF section, but that's about all I can figure out looking at it. Any help would be appreciated! Thanks in advance! Steve KD8BIW KD8BIW/R 224.580 PL 110.9 Sponsors: KA8GKT, KD8FTR, KD8IYX http://www.kd8biw.com
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Coax length
Keep in mind that duplexer manufacturers used to routinely use single shielded (RG-213) cables to make up harnesses. They worked. So Bob's testing doesn't surprise me. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: n...@no6b.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2010 10:22 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Coax length At 8/4/2010 14:37, you wrote: Doug Hutchison specialq@ntlworld.com wrote: Does the length of coax connecting cable between repeater and filters matter? Doug As long as the filters are working correctly, the cable length from the duplexers to the radios tx and rx does not matter. Having said that, remember that the shortest length of double shielded coax or HELIAX cable that will reach without kinks or physcial loads (binds) on the connectors should be used. This has nothing to do with impedeance matching, but rather cross talk thru cable leakage. Double-shielded cables aren't going to leak enough to be a concern. You do want to keep the length short to minimize loss. BTW, I once measured the isolation between a pair of ordinary RG-58 cables on a VNA from 50 to 500 MHz. Unless the cables were twisted together, I didn't see any coupling between them down to at least -90 dB. When they were twisted together, I think there was ONE frequency around 500 MHz where there was -65 dB coupling. On this same note (and knowing I'm going to stur up a hornets nest) I strongly advise against using the LMR type cables for ANY full duplex system. Any double sheilded cable which uses dissimular metals in the 2 (or more) shields will eventually cause rf noise . No argument here. Bob NO6B
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Narrowbanding
How wide is it? Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: wd8chl wd8...@gmail.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 10:58 AM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Narrowbanding ...or that think the US DTV standard fits in a 6 MHz channel...NOT!
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Dissasembly of msr 2000 continuous duty amp. How?
Motorola didn't do anyone any favors with that design. Same thing on the Micor PA. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: Kevin Custer To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 8:29 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Dissasembly of msr 2000 continuous duty amp. How? radi...@aol.com wrote: OK Kevin, I had already tried the desoldering with a really good Pace unit, but the heat did not transfer well. I will get a buddy to help and use my Weller guns. I have a big 250 watt one here somewhere. Marty Let us know how you make out - or, if you need more help... Kevin
[Repeater-Builder] Narrowbanding
Florida Repeater Coordinator proposes narrowbanding: http://www.florida-repeaters.org/FRC%202meter%20narrowband%20policy%20released%207-18-10.pdf
Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Dispatcher injured by lightning strike
Care to hazard a guess on the percentage of facilities (radio/tv, two-way) that aren't done right? A few years ago this happened near here - a radio personality wearing headphones taken to the hospital following a lightning strike to the tower outside the radio station. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: Eric Lemmon wb6...@verizon.net To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2010 11:42 AM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Dispatcher injured by lightning strike Whenever I read a report like this, I have mixed emotions. I am surprised that the injury occurred, which is impossible if the facility was properly designed and islanded in accordance with numerous standards, including NFPA 70, NFPA 780, and the Motorola R56 Manual. I am also angry that an official issued the statement that ...the communications system, including its 400-foot radio tower, are grounded in accordance with industry safety standards. That official, and the idiots who designed the communications center, should be fired and/or brought up on criminal charges. The key to a safe installation at a location with an on-site tower is to ensure that all utilities pass through a window where a common ground reference exists. Ideally, the tower should be right next to the facility, so that the same ground reference is used for both. The power transformer that feeds the control room should be in that room, not hundreds of feet away, and the secondary neutral of that transformer should be bonded to the same ground that is used by the telephones, radio system, cable TV, satellite system, and raised-floor supports. If executed properly, the design of the control room creates a Faraday Cage within which all occupants are safe from injury due to GPR (Ground Potential Rise) from a nearby lightning strike. Likewise, all the electronics within the control room are protected against surge damage. It is obvious from the news report that the dispatcher was injured because her headset was at a different potential from her body. The GPR resulting from lightning striking the tower led to thousands of volts difference between the radio control system (the headset) and the floor and counter in the control room- and the chair she was sitting in. It is also obvious that this difference in potential could not exist if the tower and the adjacent control room were grounded in accordance with industry safety standards. Some common sense and credible engineering skills are essential elements in a proper control room design. Many moons ago (late 60's), I was Chief Engineer at radio station WLRW, a 50 kW FM station at Champaign-Urbana, Illinois. During my watch, the station control room was relocated to a building next door. It was my job to supervise the cabling installation within the building and to the transmitter at the base of the tower, which was just over 100 feet away. All of the remote circuits and network feeds came through a grounding window that was common with the power and the tower grounding system. I remember arguing with the Illinois Power foreman about how we needed a separate transformer to power the station, and it had to be installed right at the side of the control room and not in a vault several hundred feet away. The value of designing the entire installation to comply with established industry standards and sound engineering practices was proven many times, when the tower was struck by lightning during a storm, and no damage or injury occurred. Although the station was on automation most of the day, we had live talent from late afternoon to early morning, and at least one lightning strike occurred while on-air talent was at the board and wearing headphones. The lights blinked, but the board operator felt nothing and the show went on. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY
Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Dispatcher injured by lightning strike
And I only see it getting worse as everyone 'has' to cut corners/costs. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: Doug Hutchison specialq@ntlworld.com To: repeater-builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2010 12:53 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Dispatcher injured by lightning strike What concerns me more than anythingso many experts yet this sort of thing still happens...(in many fields)!!! Hindsight is great!! D On 01/08/2010 17:24:18, Chuck Kelsey (wb2...@roadrunner.com) wrote: Care to hazard a guess on the percentage of facilities (radio/tv, two-way) that aren't done right? A few years ago this happened near here - a radio personality wearing headphones taken to the hospital following a lightning strike to the tower outside the radio station. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: Eric Lemmon wb6...@verizon.net To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2010 11:42 AM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Dispatcher injured by lightning strike Whenever I read a report like this, I have mixed emotions. I am surprised that the injury occurred, which is impossible if the facility was properly designed and islanded in accordance with numerous standards, including NFPA 70, NFPA 780, and the Motorola R56 Manual. I am also angry that an official issued the statement that ...the communications system, including its 400-foot radio tower, are grounded in accordance with industry safety standards. That official, and the idiots who designed the communications center, should be fired and/or brought up on criminal charges. The key to a safe installation Yahoo! Groups Links No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3043 - Release Date: 08/01/10 02:34:00
Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Dispatcher injured by lightning strike
Often times it's a well-meaning individual that simply doesn't understand (like me - LOL) and there are plenty of inspectors out there that don't know either. The corporate reasons for doing things wrong speak for themselves. Life is full of mis-information. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: Doug Hutchison specialq@ntlworld.com To: repeater-builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2010 3:26 PM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Dispatcher injured by lightning strike Yup...thats just what I mean...experts.bah humbug!! D
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Repeater receiver testing
Yep, Mac's crash all the time. They get virus' too. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: n...@no6b.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 9:38 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Repeater receiver testing At 7/27/2010 10:29 AM, you wrote:  Get a Mac. Much more efficient and crash free.. At the last coordinators' meeting I attended there was one laptop crash... Yup, it was a Mac ;) Bob NO6B
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Controller recommendations
It's going to be different for every controller. Chuck WB2EDV --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Barry ate...@... wrote: Maybe the steps in making it 12 ? _
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Invar Rods
Not a good idea. They are attached to the bottom to keep the expansion minimized. Turning them around will defeat the purpose of having the invar in the first place. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: IM Ashford imashf...@btinternet.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, July 18, 2010 8:54 AM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Invar Rods Just a thought, Why dont you turn the pistons around to give you a longer reach? Ian G8PWE - Original Message - From: Burt Lang b...@gorum.ca To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2010 4:08 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Invar Rods What diameter are the rods? The older Sinclair VHF Hi cans used 5/16in diameter whereas the newer cans used 1/4 in daiameter. burkleoj wrote: Glenn, I need 6 of them for a Sinclair duplexer that I have. Someone cut the rods off when it was originally on a commercial frequency. The rods in my duplexer are so short that it will not tune below 147 MHz before they disappear inside the top of the cavity. Very common when the frequencies are in the high 160s I can get some dimensions for you to see if the ones you have may work. Thanks, Joe - WA7JAW You can buy invar rod material from some metal suppliers but you won't like the price. It normally comes in 12ft lengths but the dealers will cut it in half in order to ship UPS. The last time I bought some (around 1990) the price was $30/lb. The dealer was Diezel (or Diesel) Metals on Long Island somewhere. I still have some left from that order. FYI Invar is an allow consisting of exactly 35.16% nickel with the remainder iron. It is magnetic and will corrode in a damp environment leaving a green rust on the surface. Burt VE2BMQ Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.839 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3013 - Release Date: 07/18/10 02:35:00
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Invar Rods
To expand on my comment, the invar rod is there to minimize the temperature lengthening and shortening the center probe. The original design with the invar to the bottom of the piston, keeps the overall length the same and allows temperature expansion to occur at the finger stock - thus not changing the overall length. If you rotate the piston, then the piston itself can expand and contract, and change the overall length. Not as much as if no invar was used, but it will be worse than if it were kept attached were it was designed. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: Chuck Kelsey wb2...@roadrunner.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, July 18, 2010 8:55 AM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Invar Rods Not a good idea. They are attached to the bottom to keep the expansion minimized. Turning them around will defeat the purpose of having the invar in the first place. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: IM Ashford imashf...@btinternet.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, July 18, 2010 8:54 AM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Invar Rods Just a thought, Why dont you turn the pistons around to give you a longer reach? Ian G8PWE - Original Message - From: Burt Lang b...@gorum.ca To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2010 4:08 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Invar Rods What diameter are the rods? The older Sinclair VHF Hi cans used 5/16in diameter whereas the newer cans used 1/4 in daiameter. burkleoj wrote: Glenn, I need 6 of them for a Sinclair duplexer that I have. Someone cut the rods off when it was originally on a commercial frequency. The rods in my duplexer are so short that it will not tune below 147 MHz before they disappear inside the top of the cavity. Very common when the frequencies are in the high 160s I can get some dimensions for you to see if the ones you have may work. Thanks, Joe - WA7JAW You can buy invar rod material from some metal suppliers but you won't like the price. It normally comes in 12ft lengths but the dealers will cut it in half in order to ship UPS. The last time I bought some (around 1990) the price was $30/lb. The dealer was Diezel (or Diesel) Metals on Long Island somewhere. I still have some left from that order. FYI Invar is an allow consisting of exactly 35.16% nickel with the remainder iron. It is magnetic and will corrode in a damp environment leaving a green rust on the surface. Burt VE2BMQ Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.839 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3013 - Release Date: 07/18/10 02:35:00 Yahoo! Groups Links No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.839 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3013 - Release Date: 07/18/10 02:35:00
Re: [Repeater-Builder] MASTR II LOW BAND TUNING
I'd still suggest that he try them since he already has them. If they don't work out, so be it. They can easily be swept to confirm the results, too. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: Joe k1ike_m...@snet.net To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 9:27 AM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] MASTR II LOW BAND TUNING I was just quoting the sales flyer. I agree that the bandpass curve has the typical knee shaped bandpass curve instead of the bell shaped curve for what I would call a bandpass duplexer. The only real application that I can see for these duplexers would be a mobile installation that is operating in the full-duplex mode. It's interesting that they picked 52 and 53MHz on the plot, maybe they were targeting the ham market? 73, Joe, K1ike On 7/5/2010 8:02 PM, Eric Lemmon wrote: I see what the sales flyer says, but the response plots show no real bandpass action.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] carrier operated relay
This one's on the Repeater Builder site: http://www.repeater-builder.com/projects/hangtimer.html Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: sbjohns...@aol.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 8:36 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] carrier operated relay Can anybody help me to make a makeshift repeater, I need a schematic diagram for carrier operated relay or COR for two radio transceivers to be converted into a repeater.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] MASTR II LOW BAND TUNING
Jim - My experience with 6-FM is that you are going to have a much harder time hearing the repeater than getting in to it. The noise encountered in a mobile environment desenses your receiver. There are exceptions to this, but as a general rule it's true. So, some loss on RX isn't necessarily going to be a killer. My 6 meter repeater typically far outhears that the user receiver can pick up. You can be full quieting running a 50 or less watt mobile and have difficulty hearing the repeater's 100 watt transmitter. Again, not always, but quite often. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: James Cicirello To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, July 05, 2010 12:54 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] MASTR II LOW BAND TUNING Hi Eric, First thanks you for pointing me to the manuals and Don for the NHRC Tuning site. Eric the combination numbers are MC74AAU33A. They came from a trucking company and I think they are on 47.XXX. I am taking over the Wellsville 53.090 Repeater as the original owner is re-locating. He has a custom built repeater MASTR II from Repeater Builder going thru a rack mount flat pack duplexer with about 90 Db of isolation, but there is also 2 Db of receiver loss thru the cans. I have two sites 6 miles apart and I want to try split sites using the above mentioned GE as the TX and use the HOT RX on the custom Repeater for the RX. I am in hopes that all I have to do is tune the TX and hook it to the link radio. 73 JIM KA2AJH On Sun, Jul 4, 2010 at 8:39 PM, Eric Lemmon wb6...@verizon.net wrote: Jim, Perhaps you are not aware that Repeater-Builder has a huge index of General Electric manuals. Just look at any Description Maintenance manual for a low-band radio to get the tuning instructions. Since you did not specify exactly which low-band radio you have, any of these LBIs will probably get you going: www.repeater-builder.com/ge/lbi-library/lbi-4896.pdf www.repeater-builder.com/ge/lbi-library/lbi-4898g.pdf www.repeater-builder.com/ge/lbi-library/lbi-30104b.pdf www.repeater-builder.com/ge/lbi-library/lbi-30293a.pdf Please be aware that even a high-split (33 range) radio may need modification to perform well in the Amateur 6m band. What is the Combination Number of the radio you want to tune? 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of James Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2010 3:46 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] MASTR II LOW BAND TUNING Hi Guys, Is there a link to tuning a low band mastr II? I have googled and find all kinds of VHF High and UHF but not Mastr II Low. I want to tune to six meters. Thanks JIM KA2AJH -- KA2AJH Jim Cicirello 181 Stevens Street Wellsville, N.Y. 14895 (585)593-4655 -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2983 - Release Date: 07/05/10 02:36:00
Re: [Repeater-Builder] MASTR II LOW BAND TUNING
I'd certainly try single site since you've got the reject filters. It's certainly easier to manage than split site. With split site, in the hills we have around here, you are going to get two different coverage areas - one for TX and another for RX. If it were flatter, it wouldn't make a big difference, at least in my opinion. You'll want to back the power down and put fans on it since it's a mobile. I also prefer to tune the antenna to favor the TX. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: James Cicirello To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, July 05, 2010 5:19 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] MASTR II LOW BAND TUNING Hi Again Eric, When you get a chance will you look at these duplexers and give me your opinion? http://www.radiodata.com/fiplex/products/PDFs/DHV05.pdf The duplexer I got with the repeater is the Model DHV-0544.( THE 533 has been discontinued) The way I am reading their specs it is 90 dB at 1 MHz, Anyone else wish to comment, Chuck you have some 6 meter machines too. I just got these from the owner today and am looking for advice, opinions, etc. This is a new product that he spent a lot of bucks on, so I am looking for opinions, anybody that may have experience with these duplexers, to include a split site Vs these duplexers. Thanks all 73 JIM KA2AJH Wellsville, N.Y. On Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 2:23 PM, Eric Lemmon wb6...@verizon.net wrote: Jim, A low-band repeater with a flat-pack duplexer having 90 dB of isolation? That's amazing! My low-band repeater uses four 12 diameter cans that each stand about five feet tall. Your MC74AAU33A radio is an M-series 100 watt mobile radio, covered by PC-61 here: www.repeater-builder.com/ge/product-code-indexes/index-pc61-mastr-ii-m-seri es-mobiles.pdf The transmitter tuning information is covered in LBI-4898, available at the link I gave you earlier. It is not a full-page version, but it will have to do until we can borrow a paper copy to scan. If any readers of this list have a clean and complete original LBI-4898 that we can borrow for full-page scanning, please contact me directly at mycall at verizon dot net. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of James Cicirello Sent: Monday, July 05, 2010 9:54 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] MASTR II LOW BAND TUNING Hi Eric, First thanks you for pointing me to the manuals and Don for the NHRC Tuning site. Eric the combination numbers are MC74AAU33A. They came from a trucking company and I think they are on 47.XXX. I am taking over the Wellsville 53.090 Repeater as the original owner is re-locating. He has a custom built repeater MASTR II from Repeater Builder going thru a rack mount flat pack duplexer with about 90 Db of isolation, but there is also 2 Db of receiver loss thru the cans. I have two sites 6 miles apart and I want to try split sites using the above mentioned GE as the TX and use the HOT RX on the custom Repeater for the RX. I am in hopes that all I have to do is tune the TX and hook it to the link radio. 73 JIM KA2AJH On Sun, Jul 4, 2010 at 8:39 PM, Eric Lemmon wb6...@verizon.net mailto:wb6...@verizon.net wrote: Jim, Perhaps you are not aware that Repeater-Builder has a huge index of General Electric manuals. Just look at any Description Maintenance manual for a low-band radio to get the tuning instructions. Since you did not specify exactly which low-band radio you have, any of these LBIs will probably get you going: www.repeater-builder.com/ge/lbi-library/lbi-4896.pdf http://www.repeater-builder.com/ge/lbi-library/lbi-4896.pdf www.repeater-builder.com/ge/lbi-library/lbi-4898g.pdf http://www.repeater-builder.com/ge/lbi-library/lbi-4898g.pdf www.repeater-builder.com/ge/lbi-library/lbi-30104b.pdf http://www.repeater-builder.com/ge/lbi-library/lbi-30104b.pdf www.repeater-builder.com/ge/lbi-library/lbi-30293a.pdf http://www.repeater-builder.com/ge/lbi-library/lbi-30293a.pdf Please be aware that even a high-split (33 range) radio may need modification to perform well in the Amateur 6m band. What is the Combination Number of the radio you want to tune? 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of James Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2010 3:46 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] MASTR II LOW BAND TUNING Hi Guys, Is there
Re: [Repeater-Builder] MASTR II LOW BAND TUNING
You might make if from a hilltop. The Limestone 6-meter machine that's linked in is down temporarily for some lightning repairs. That one is closer to you and you'd probably get into it if it were up. Chuck - Original Message - From: James Cicirello To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, July 05, 2010 5:36 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] MASTR II LOW BAND TUNING Good thoughts Chuck. I never thought about the two patterns. I have to check and make sure I have your Freq. programmed into my mobile. 73 JIM KA2AJH On Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 5:32 PM, Chuck Kelsey wb2...@roadrunner.com wrote: I'd certainly try single site since you've got the reject filters. It's certainly easier to manage than split site. With split site, in the hills we have around here, you are going to get two different coverage areas - one for TX and another for RX. If it were flatter, it wouldn't make a big difference, at least in my opinion. You'll want to back the power down and put fans on it since it's a mobile. I also prefer to tune the antenna to favor the TX. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: James Cicirello To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, July 05, 2010 5:19 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] MASTR II LOW BAND TUNING Hi Again Eric, When you get a chance will you look at these duplexers and give me your opinion? http://www.radiodata.com/fiplex/products/PDFs/DHV05.pdf The duplexer I got with the repeater is the Model DHV-0544.( THE 533 has been discontinued) The way I am reading their specs it is 90 dB at 1 MHz, Anyone else wish to comment, Chuck you have some 6 meter machines too. I just got these from the owner today and am looking for advice, opinions, etc. This is a new product that he spent a lot of bucks on, so I am looking for opinions, anybody that may have experience with these duplexers, to include a split site Vs these duplexers. Thanks all 73 JIM KA2AJH Wellsville, N.Y. On Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 2:23 PM, Eric Lemmon wb6...@verizon.net wrote: Jim, A low-band repeater with a flat-pack duplexer having 90 dB of isolation? That's amazing! My low-band repeater uses four 12 diameter cans that each stand about five feet tall. Your MC74AAU33A radio is an M-series 100 watt mobile radio, covered by PC-61 here: www.repeater-builder.com/ge/product-code-indexes/index-pc61-mastr-ii-m-seri es-mobiles.pdf The transmitter tuning information is covered in LBI-4898, available at the link I gave you earlier. It is not a full-page version, but it will have to do until we can borrow a paper copy to scan. If any readers of this list have a clean and complete original LBI-4898 that we can borrow for full-page scanning, please contact me directly at mycall at verizon dot net. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of James Cicirello Sent: Monday, July 05, 2010 9:54 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] MASTR II LOW BAND TUNING Hi Eric, First thanks you for pointing me to the manuals and Don for the NHRC Tuning site. Eric the combination numbers are MC74AAU33A. They came from a trucking company and I think they are on 47.XXX. I am taking over the Wellsville 53.090 Repeater as the original owner is re-locating. He has a custom built repeater MASTR II from Repeater Builder going thru a rack mount flat pack duplexer with about 90 Db of isolation, but there is also 2 Db of receiver loss thru the cans. I have two sites 6 miles apart and I want to try split sites using the above mentioned GE as the TX and use the HOT RX on the custom Repeater for the RX. I am in hopes that all I have to do is tune the TX and hook it to the link radio. 73 JIM KA2AJH On Sun, Jul 4, 2010 at 8:39 PM, Eric Lemmon wb6...@verizon.net mailto:wb6...@verizon.net wrote: Jim, Perhaps you are not aware that Repeater-Builder has a huge index of General Electric manuals. Just look at any Description Maintenance manual for a low-band radio to get the tuning instructions. Since you did not specify exactly which low-band radio you have, any of these LBIs will probably get you going: www.repeater-builder.com/ge/lbi-library/lbi-4896.pdf http://www.repeater-builder.com/ge/lbi-library/lbi-4896.pdf www.repeater-builder.com/ge/lbi-library/lbi-4898g.pdf http://www.repeater-builder.com/ge/lbi
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Inline coax connector style impedance matcher
It's called a Z-matcher. No place like Digi-Key will have. Telewave, EMR, Decibel, Sinclair, Comprod, TX/RX I believe all make/made them. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: kq7dx kq...@yahoo.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2010 5:49 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Inline coax connector style impedance matcher Dear Group, Somewhere I saw or heard of a inline coaxial impedance matcher. It looks like a barrel connector but it actually has an adjustment on it for adjusting or trimming SWR between devices. It is placed inline with the coax ,between a driver and amp or between duplexer cavites etc, and adjusted for 50 ohms in instances where the coax length is not optimum. I thought Digikey made them but cant find it. If anyone knows about these and where to get them let me know.. 73 Yahoo! Groups Links No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2980 - Release Date: 07/03/10 14:35:00
Re: [Repeater-Builder] DB-212 questions
Keep the transmitter happy is my opinion. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: N8FWD kc8...@hotmail.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 9:00 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] DB-212 questions I have a set of DB-212 that each one is set for six meters.I want to build the harness next for the two and wanted to know should I set the SWR for the tx side or the rx side or should it be set for in between the two? Thanks Mike N8FWD Yahoo! Groups Links No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2976 - Release Date: 07/01/10 14:35:00
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: OT:Printing google or Bing maps from the web
Correct. That's what I posted earlier. Works great and is easy. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: La Rue Communications To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2010 11:19 AM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: OT:Printing google or Bing maps from the web Y'all don't even need to hold down shift or ctrl, or alt. Just hit print screen, open paint up and paste (ctrl V). Save it as JPG / IMG / whatever format you need it. Edit photo / crop as necessary and print. :-) Cheers! John Hymes La Rue Communications 10 S. Aurora Street Stockton, CA 95202 http://tinyurl.com/2dtngmn
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Recording of mysterious noise
To me it sounds like either a system with intermod involving the repeater's transmitter getting into it's receiver, or similar to two repeater systems with one being on the reverse pair. I lean toward the first possibility. And if I were to guess, I'd say this is on UHF. If you shut off the TX while this is happening, does the noise disappear on the local RX? Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: gm7svk specialq@ntlworld.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2010 4:15 AM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Recording of mysterious noise Hello, Loaded sample to files section. Has anyone encountered this sort of noise on a system or have a suggestion as to what might be generating it? Proving difficult to determine source. Thank you, Doug - GM7SVK
Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT:Printing google or Bing maps from the web
Will a screen capture work? If so hit PRINT SCREEN, open Paint then hit copy and go from there. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: Don Kupferschmidt To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2010 9:42 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] OT:Printing google or Bing maps from the web All, I'm trying to print a map which was brought up on either google or bing maps on the internet and then export it to a bmp or jpg file which then I can print to an ink jet printer. I've tried and tried to figure this out, but cannot to find a solution. Has anyone been successful in doing this? Or do I need more software? O/S is x/p Pro. TIA, Don, KD9PT
Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT:Printing google or Bing maps from the web
Sorry, hit paste. - Original Message - From: Chuck Kelsey To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2010 9:45 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT:Printing google or Bing maps from the web Will a screen capture work? If so hit PRINT SCREEN, open Paint then hit copy and go from there. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: Don Kupferschmidt To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2010 9:42 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] OT:Printing google or Bing maps from the web All, I'm trying to print a map which was brought up on either google or bing maps on the internet and then export it to a bmp or jpg file which then I can print to an ink jet printer. I've tried and tried to figure this out, but cannot to find a solution. Has anyone been successful in doing this? Or do I need more software? O/S is x/p Pro. TIA, Don, KD9PT -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2971 - Release Date: 06/29/10 14:35:00
[Repeater-Builder] OT - Firefox bookmarks
Is anyone here real good with Firefox and bookmarks. I want to replicate the IE method of autohiding the bookmark sidebar. Otherwise Firefox get left behind and I go back to IE. I've tried staying with Firefox for three or four months and this is driving me crazy. Contact me direct. Chuck WB2EDV wb2edv (at) roadrunner (dot) com
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Antenna Experience Needed!
My vote would be for folded dipole arrays. Sinclair, Comprod, Telewave and Andrew make good ones. I have seen far too many failures with fiberglass collinear antennas - lighting and particularly internal failure causing untold noise generation to the repeater itself as well as to every radio service nearby. I've never seen a fiberglass one that stood a direct hit but have seen folded dipoles that did. I'd say at least a 3:1 failure rate, maybe higher. That said, any can fail. Chuck WB2EDV We will be mounting 2 meter, 220, and a 440 repeater antennas. 1: What do you recommend between a choice of either RFS or Telewave Superstation Master Type or DB224E Dipole type for top mounting?
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Antenna Experience Needed!
I'm assuming you mean the section of the particular band that a particular model will cover. 'Most' folded dipole arrays and collinear fiberglass manufacturers have models that cover the entire ham band in question, and then some. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: Larry Horlick To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 9:17 AM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Antenna Experience Needed! Keep in mind the bandwidth of the antenna. lh On Wed, Jun 23, 2010 at 9:09 AM, Sid purvis...@yahoo.com wrote: My choice would be the DB-224 type. Sid WA4VBC --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Chuck Kelsey wb2...@... wrote: My vote would be for folded dipole arrays. Sinclair, Comprod, Telewave and Andrew make good ones. I have seen far too many failures with fiberglass collinear antennas - lighting and particularly internal failure causing untold noise generation to the repeater itself as well as to every radio service nearby. I've never seen a fiberglass one that stood a direct hit but have seen folded dipoles that did. I'd say at least a 3:1 failure rate, maybe higher. That said, any can fail. Chuck WB2EDV We will be mounting 2 meter, 220, and a 440 repeater antennas. 1: What do you recommend between a choice of either RFS or Telewave Superstation Master Type or DB224E Dipole type for top mounting? -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.829 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2957 - Release Date: 06/23/10 02:36:00
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Antenna Experience Needed!
Larry is correct. My own personal hope and desire is that there will NOT be other users. Call me greedy, I suppose, but the less RF at the site, the better. However, the guy that posted the original question certainly needs to consider the possibilities. (Sorry, don't remember his name - short memory.) Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: Larry Horlick To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 10:00 AM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Antenna Experience Needed! Do you expect to EVER allow other, non-ham users, to multi-couple to this antenna? Plan carefully. If you anticipate to share, then the bandwidth become very important. For example, a Sinclair 210C Series antenna has a 36 mHz, 1.5:1 VSWR bandwidth, essentially covering the whole VHF high band. A Sinclair 222/224 Series has a 10 mHz 1.5:1 VSWR bandwidth. A Sinclair 229 has a 6 mHz, 1.5:1 VSWR bandwidth. UHF follows a similar set of numbers. If you expect to never allow other users on the antenna, then my comments are irrelevant. lh On Wed, Jun 23, 2010 at 9:36 AM, Chuck Kelsey wb2...@roadrunner.com wrote: I'm assuming you mean the section of the particular band that a particular model will cover. 'Most' folded dipole arrays and collinear fiberglass manufacturers have models that cover the entire ham band in question, and then some. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: Larry Horlick To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 9:17 AM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Antenna Experience Needed! Keep in mind the bandwidth of the antenna. lh On Wed, Jun 23, 2010 at 9:09 AM, Sid purvis...@yahoo.com wrote: My choice would be the DB-224 type. Sid WA4VBC --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Chuck Kelsey wb2...@... wrote: My vote would be for folded dipole arrays. Sinclair, Comprod, Telewave and Andrew make good ones. I have seen far too many failures with fiberglass collinear antennas - lighting and particularly internal failure causing untold noise generation to the repeater itself as well as to every radio service nearby. I've never seen a fiberglass one that stood a direct hit but have seen folded dipoles that did. I'd say at least a 3:1 failure rate, maybe higher. That said, any can fail. Chuck WB2EDV We will be mounting 2 meter, 220, and a 440 repeater antennas. 1: What do you recommend between a choice of either RFS or Telewave Superstation Master Type or DB224E Dipole type for top mounting? -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.829 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2957 - Release Date: 06/23/10 02:36:00 -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.829 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2957 - Release Date: 06/23/10 02:36:00
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Antenna Experience Needed!
You bet. My main repeater site is one that I purchased. The only one that can throw me off is my wife. LOL. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: Larry Horlick To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 10:24 AM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Antenna Experience Needed! Understood Chuck. Depends on the circumstances. I know of a couple of ham groups that have traded antenna space for tower space. The tower owner gave them free space provided he could multi-couple to that antenna. The new systems at the site would be responsible for filtering. It was a win-win and the ham guys paid nothing for a PRIME location. If you own the tower and never plan to expand then it's not an issue. My only reason for bring it up was to encourage everyone to consider all the options and ensure that they will not regret the model chosen. As I am sure you are aware, attaching a big antenna to a high tower is tons of work and not something that any of us would want to repeat unless necessary. lh Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: repeater-builder-dig...@yahoogroups.com repeater-builder-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: repeater-builder-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] An antenna question
Decibel made one similar - DB806D. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: Com/Rad Inc To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2010 1:00 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] An antenna question Jun 22 - 2010 hello Group This question os directed to all of the antenna historians I am trying to determine a make/model number of a base antenna meeting the following description 806-865 ( approx range ) Dual antenna Base mounted N female connectors Fiberglass radome 3-4 diameter - same dims base to tip ( not tapered ) Total length = 10' approx Metal mounting sleeve approx 28 in length Thanks in advance Ed Folta Com/Rad Inc -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.829 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2955 - Release Date: 06/22/10 02:36:00
Re: [Repeater-Builder] What have I got?
I'm pretty sure the guy wanted to identify the Motorola equipment he had, not what power level was required. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: n...@no6b.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2010 1:47 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] What have I got? At 6/19/2010 08:44, you wrote: Not really an expert on that unit! General rule of thumb: when you have an existing exciter, the power amp (final) input is usually around 1/4 W (250mW) or higher. Most GE junk is 1/2 watt in. you cant go wrong with trying 250mw. The G.E. exciters I've measured show around 200 mW out. I once put a UHF exciter tuned to 450 MHz on an HP437 power meter got 183 mW. This seems to be more than enough to drive their RFPAs. Bob NO6B Yahoo! Groups Links No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.829 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2948 - Release Date: 06/19/10 02:35:00
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Hard-Line Filter pager filter construction web page.
Just like the filters for the 6-meter heliax duplexers, except for the band. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: skipp025 skipp...@yahoo.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2010 12:07 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Hard-Line Filter pager filter construction web page. re: Hard-Line Filter pager filter construction web page. This is pretty neat'o http://www.vk5zd.com/PagerFilter/Filter.aspx enjoy, s. Yahoo! Groups Links No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.829 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2934 - Release Date: 06/13/10 02:35:00
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: MOVs for power supply primary
Boy wouldn't you think that these devices would loose their UL rating? Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: Eric Lemmon wb6...@verizon.net To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2010 8:03 PM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: MOVs for power supply primary The gray plastic, half-moon-shaped power strip made by APC is known to be a fire hazard, and my employer (Boeing) banned them after the second fire incident. In each incident, the MOV spontaneously overheated and melted the plastic case, which then caught fire. Fortunately, the damage was limited to the wooden shelf it was sitting on in one case, and some scorched carpet in the other. As a result of these two incidents, the CPSC recommended that any power strip be made of metal rather than plastic, and further, that the plug strip containing a surge suppression device always be placed upon a non-combustible surface. A word to the wise... 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY
Re: [Repeater-Builder] MOVs for power supply primary
OK, I'm familiar with those single-point grounding panel protection devices. How about a service panel protector for home use? And a service panel protector for a small (200A) 3-phase panel? I ask, rather than simply Google for it, because Google could come up with some units that are not good. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: Jeff DePolo j...@broadsci.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2010 1:13 PM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] MOVs for power supply primary Hmmm. That's a tougher one. Mostly I use the Polyphasers (PLDO-120US-15A or -20A) at sites that don't have facility-wide protection. The TrippLite Isobar Ultra series is another (ISOBAR8ULTRA et al). The Isobars also have a $50,000 equipment warranty (can't say I've ever had to use it, don't know how much red tape there is to go through). I like the Polyphasers because it's designed to mount to a ground panel/bus bar, so I mount it to the bus bar that has all of my other arrestors (coax, telco, etc.) on it to provide a common-point ground. The Isobar doesn't have provisions for direct grounding - it relies only on the equipment grounding conductor in the AC cord, but the TrippLite has arguably better EMI/RFI filtering than the Polyphaser. --- Jeff WN3A -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chuck Kelsey Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2010 4:48 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] MOVs for power supply primary OK, I should have been more specific. What would be a reasonable unit for a repeater site that may have only a couple thousand dollars worth of equipment inside? Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: Jeff DePolo j...@broadsci.com mailto:jd0%40broadsci.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2010 4:22 PM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] MOVs for power supply primary Probably the ones I've had the most luck with are the Islatrol series from Control Concepts. I think they have been bought out by Emerson or Liebert or one of the other companies that have power divisions. Anyway, they call these active tracking filters. They not only are TVSS's but also filter noise, low-amplitude spikes, etc. Right now I'm typing from a mountaintop site (broadcast) that we re-built a few years ago. We put in an Islator I-2100 (120/240V single-phase). The old equipment shelter which had been here since 1990 had the same model unit. In the 15+ years we've been managing and maintaining the site, we've had zero surge-related failures, and this site sticks out like a sore thumb as far as lightning goes. In the last few years I've used the same series of arrestors for new site builds at a dozen sites or so and have had no power-related problems. Others that make comparable-quality products include Joslyn, Transtector, and Innovative Technologies. There is one big difference (to me anyway) between TVSS's, that being whether they are the series or parallel type. Series type takes the utility service (or transfer switch output if there's a generator too) as its input, and provides a protected output to feed the panel(s). Parallel type is typically connected to a breaker in the panel, which puts it in parallel with all of the loads. I much prefer series. Parallel type can be less effective because a) there will always be some inductance and resistance in the wiring between the panel and the protector, b) if the TVSS conducts, there's a good chance it will trip the breaker in the panel, resulting in no protection until the breaker is reset, and c) they are much less effective as a noise filter. The upside to parallel type is they can easily be added at any time just by popping breakers in the panel and feeding the arrestor. Series, on the other hand, are in-line with the service conductors, so if you want to add one (or repair one), you have to take the service down. Series tends to also be more expensive, especially for three-phase and unlike parallel type, the price goes up as the current rating goes up for obvious reasons. A good 200A single-phase arrestor of the ilk I'm talking about starts at about $1000 and goes up quite a ways from there. I think these single-phase I-2100's were in the $2000 range. I recently spec'ed a 120/208 3-phase Transtector (parallel type) for another site where I'm much less concerned about power-wise, and that was about $1800. No cheap, but where you're protecting equipment in the 6 and 7 figure range, it's a no-brainer. If you're repeater is a Micor mobile and an Astron, it might be hard to justify... :-) --- Jeff Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: OT:QRZ.com
I think you need to login in only to see detail. I noticed the change a few weeks back. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: larynl2 lar...@hotmail.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2010 9:24 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: OT:QRZ.com Just tried it... no login or password required for me. Laryn K8TVZ --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Don Kupferschmidt dkupf...@... wrote: Hi all. Has anyone used QRZ.com recently to look at a call sign and was challenged for a login and a password? I tried to look up a callsign for verification of an address, but was unable to go any further until I emailed their admin for a current login and password. Once I got it, I was able to use their site. Anyone know why this is happening? Don, KD9PT
Re: [Repeater-Builder] MOVs for power supply primary
Thanks Eric. Chuck - Original Message - From: Eric Lemmon wb6...@verizon.net To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2010 10:07 PM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] MOVs for power supply primary Chuck, Square D makes a line of heavy-duty, commercial-grade surge protectors for both 120/240 VAC residential and 208Y/120 VAC commercial systems: http://tinyurl.com/27tnma7 These are very good products, but- like any really good stuff- are definitely not cheap. I guess that one's definition of cheap changes after suffering a $5,000 loss due to a lightning strike! 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY
Re: [Repeater-Builder] MOVs for power supply primary
Jeff - Could you suggest some makes and models and maybe explain why they are superior to others? Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - Good surge arrestors/TVSS's are expensive, and like most things in life, you get what you pay for. If your site has a good surge arrestor at the service entrance, you really shouldn't need anything extra. --- Jeff WN3A
Re: [Repeater-Builder] MOVs for power supply primary
And, boy were there stars! Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - It was nice to be able to see the stars again, without all the light pollution. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: repeater-builder-dig...@yahoogroups.com repeater-builder-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: repeater-builder-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] MOVs for power supply primary
OK, I should have been more specific. What would be a reasonable unit for a repeater site that may have only a couple thousand dollars worth of equipment inside? Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: Jeff DePolo j...@broadsci.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2010 4:22 PM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] MOVs for power supply primary Probably the ones I've had the most luck with are the Islatrol series from Control Concepts. I think they have been bought out by Emerson or Liebert or one of the other companies that have power divisions. Anyway, they call these active tracking filters. They not only are TVSS's but also filter noise, low-amplitude spikes, etc. Right now I'm typing from a mountaintop site (broadcast) that we re-built a few years ago. We put in an Islator I-2100 (120/240V single-phase). The old equipment shelter which had been here since 1990 had the same model unit. In the 15+ years we've been managing and maintaining the site, we've had zero surge-related failures, and this site sticks out like a sore thumb as far as lightning goes. In the last few years I've used the same series of arrestors for new site builds at a dozen sites or so and have had no power-related problems. Others that make comparable-quality products include Joslyn, Transtector, and Innovative Technologies. There is one big difference (to me anyway) between TVSS's, that being whether they are the series or parallel type. Series type takes the utility service (or transfer switch output if there's a generator too) as its input, and provides a protected output to feed the panel(s). Parallel type is typically connected to a breaker in the panel, which puts it in parallel with all of the loads. I much prefer series. Parallel type can be less effective because a) there will always be some inductance and resistance in the wiring between the panel and the protector, b) if the TVSS conducts, there's a good chance it will trip the breaker in the panel, resulting in no protection until the breaker is reset, and c) they are much less effective as a noise filter. The upside to parallel type is they can easily be added at any time just by popping breakers in the panel and feeding the arrestor. Series, on the other hand, are in-line with the service conductors, so if you want to add one (or repair one), you have to take the service down. Series tends to also be more expensive, especially for three-phase and unlike parallel type, the price goes up as the current rating goes up for obvious reasons. A good 200A single-phase arrestor of the ilk I'm talking about starts at about $1000 and goes up quite a ways from there. I think these single-phase I-2100's were in the $2000 range. I recently spec'ed a 120/208 3-phase Transtector (parallel type) for another site where I'm much less concerned about power-wise, and that was about $1800. No cheap, but where you're protecting equipment in the 6 and 7 figure range, it's a no-brainer. If you're repeater is a Micor mobile and an Astron, it might be hard to justify... :-) --- Jeff
Re: [Repeater-Builder] transmission is intermittent and voice cuts out with my mc-micro repeater
Could be a lot of things. If you are running a PL tone, the level may be too low and your voice is causing talk off. Could be you are falsing the controller's touch tone decoder and it's programmed to not pass audio when it hears a tone. Could be deviation is too high somewhere and you are going out of the passband of the receiver. Might be a bad mic or mic cord on your radio. etc., etc. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: mimomeg mimo...@yahoo.fr To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2010 10:55 AM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] transmission is intermittent and voice cuts out with my mc-micro repeater Seem to have period where my transmission (voice) cuts out for a few seconds every so often, and the person at the other end can't hear me. On the receiving end,Does anyone have any idea? Thanks in advance, Yahoo! Groups Links No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.829 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2921 - Release Date: 06/06/10 02:25:00
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Advice on 40 year old radio tower
If it were me, I'd decline to use it. By the time you replace all the guy wires, strip all the junk off the tower, clean off all the rust and paint it, you've still got an old tower when you're finished. All that expense would go a long way toward a new tower. And that's not even considering all those rusty joints that could, and probably will, cause all kinds of intermod. If you can purchase the site, and it's a good one, it could eventually work out with a new installation. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: dgrapach dgrap...@gmail.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2010 11:27 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Advice on 40 year old radio tower The pictures are here of the tower. http://s903.photobucket.com/albums/ac231/dgrapach/Old%20tower/Old%20Tower/ --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, dgrapach dgrap...@... wrote: Very true,this tower had it's guy wires in the woods under the trees, the site was abandon for years. Where and how do I find an engineer to inspect it. I am in Indiana county pa. Is it feasible to change guy wires, do they recomemd it?
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Advice on 40 year old radio tower
I just noticed a RED FLAG item in one of the pictures. Whomever constructed the tower installed the cross braces upside down - the drain holes are at the top. 40 years of rain getting into those will not be good. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: NORM KNAPP nkn...@twowayradio.net To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 3:11 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Advice on 40 year old radio tower Not worth your time, let alone your life. Bolted on tubular bracing is a recipe for disaster. The BW (body wall) on the legs and bracing could be paper thin and you would find out after the damage is done. I would not climb it if it had new guys on it. 73 Norm N5NPO
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Advice on 40 year old radio tower
Now someone needs to do the next guy a favor and drop the thing to the ground before someone gets hurt. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: dgrapach dgrap...@gmail.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 4:47 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Advice on 40 year old radio tower I checked the drain hole on that brace and their is another one at the other end on the bottom, anyhow, you ARE RIGHT IT HAS 40 YEARS OF WEATHER ON IT. To many red flags. After a reveiew of the messages and I would like to use it, I think I am going to pass this one up. After all safety is number one. Thanks to all for the good advice on this subject, this is the BEST forum to gain knowledge on repeater information, their is no other like it. Thanks to all Denny
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Advice on 40 year old radio tower
You are both wrong. It is there. - Original Message - From: Doug Hutchison specialq@ntlworld.com To: repeater-builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 5:02 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Advice on 40 year old radio tower Their??? English therethey're ...get the right one! What happened to English I wonder??? 8On 03/06/2010 20:47:07, dgrapach (dgrap...@gmail.com) wrote: I checked the drain hole on that brace and their is another one at the other end on the bottom, anyhow, you ARE RIGHT IT HAS 40 YEARS OF
