Re: [Repeater-Builder] Astron RS50 Power Supply
At 08:57 PM 06/20/10, you wrote: Thanks to all who replyed to my question on the Astron. Mike, I did not check the box on the 404 Error, but Chuck sent me a copy of the schematic and when I returned to the site they all opened. Thanks for the heads up on the Astron Page, I am re-reading as I don't think I have the Cap. you mentioned.I also have to check to see if Negative Stud is insulated from the case. I replaced the 1000 Uf Electrolytic and it took off. Any of the suggestions, i.e. Loose Screw on the filter Cap. or a Bad filter Cap after 20 years could have been the problem. Again thank you all for the information. Now to fine tune it before I cover it up again. 73 JIM KA2AJH Wellsville, NY You're welcome. I suggest you go down the mod list on the introductory page. At a minimum I'd: 1) put split (lock) washers on the pass transistors and on the filter caps. 2) Verify that the power cord green wire is grounded to the case. Put a star washer between the lug and the case and tighten it snugly so the edges of the points of the stars bite into the case and into the lug. This is a safety issue and your survivors will thank you. 3) Make sure the power cord and the fuse holder is wired so that the hot (black) wire in the cord goes to the power switch and then to the center pin of the fuse holder. The barrel (the outer sleeve) of the of the fuse holder (nearest the case) goes to the transformer. This is another safety issue. I am not the only person who has been zapped because the AC hot wire had been wired to the sleeve of the fuse holder. The issue is that when you pull a good fuse out of the holder the tip of the fuse will touch the sleeve contact in the holder and if your other hand is on the case of the equipment... ZAP ! 4) Add the compensation cap. Just remove the 723 chip from it's socket and solder it across the back of the board, then reinstall the chip. 5) Float the negative side of the supply off the case. None of these five changes cost significant time or money. Mike WA6ILQ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Astron RS50 Power Supply
With all the excitement I missed something. Can you explain this for me? 4) Add the compensation cap. Just remove the 723 chip from it's socket and solder it across the back of the board, then reinstall the chip. What is the compensation cap? BTW: I've never been able to find a good clear copy of the astron schematic. They are always fuzzy whae you blow them up where you can print it off. William Brown KG4AQH -- From: Mike Morris wa6...@gmail.com Sent: Monday, June 21, 2010 2:19 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Astron RS50 Power Supply At 08:57 PM 06/20/10, you wrote: Thanks to all who replyed to my question on the Astron. Mike, I did not check the box on the 404 Error, but Chuck sent me a copy of the schematic and when I returned to the site they all opened. Thanks for the heads up on the Astron Page, I am re-reading as I don't think I have the Cap. you mentioned.I also have to check to see if Negative Stud is insulated from the case. I replaced the 1000 Uf Electrolytic and it took off. Any of the suggestions, i.e. Loose Screw on the filter Cap. or a Bad filter Cap after 20 years could have been the problem. Again thank you all for the information. Now to fine tune it before I cover it up again. 73 JIM KA2AJH Wellsville, NY You're welcome. I suggest you go down the mod list on the introductory page. At a minimum I'd: 1) put split (lock) washers on the pass transistors and on the filter caps. 2) Verify that the power cord green wire is grounded to the case. Put a star washer between the lug and the case and tighten it snugly so the edges of the points of the stars bite into the case and into the lug. This is a safety issue and your survivors will thank you. 3) Make sure the power cord and the fuse holder is wired so that the hot (black) wire in the cord goes to the power switch and then to the center pin of the fuse holder. The barrel (the outer sleeve) of the of the fuse holder (nearest the case) goes to the transformer. This is another safety issue. I am not the only person who has been zapped because the AC hot wire had been wired to the sleeve of the fuse holder. The issue is that when you pull a good fuse out of the holder the tip of the fuse will touch the sleeve contact in the holder and if your other hand is on the case of the equipment... ZAP ! 4) Add the compensation cap. Just remove the 723 chip from it's socket and solder it across the back of the board, then reinstall the chip. 5) Float the negative side of the supply off the case. None of these five changes cost significant time or money. Mike WA6ILQ Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Astron RS50 Power Supply
At 05:40 AM 06/21/10, you wrote: With all the excitement I missed something. Can you explain this for me? 4) Add the compensation cap. Just remove the 723 chip from it's socket and solder it across the back of the board, then reinstall the chip. What is the compensation cap? It's a capacitor that the Astron designer left out as a cost cutting measure. Go to the Astron page at repeater-builder, then to the introductory article. It's all explained there. BTW: I've never been able to find a good clear copy of the astron schematic. They are always fuzzy whae you blow them up where you can print it off. We offer for download what we are given. Some schematics are better than others. A lot of folks don't know that the scanning programs that offer compression on JPGs do it by throwing away detail. ZIPping the file shrinks it for emailing without loss of detail. We'd rather have the large file ZIPped and emailed to us and let us shrink it as we make a PDF out of it. William Brown KG4AQH Mike WA6ILQ
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Astron RS50 Power Supply
Everyone is entitled to make an ass out of himself now and then, but you're abusing the privilege... -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kevin valentino Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 9:21 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Astron RS50 Power Supply Hey you still owe me 3 # bucks for sending you a Uniden key! Hope the whole world knows know! you just blew me off?!!! it was over a year ago at least! sent you several emails. guess if you can't afford a couple bucks then you should not to try to make yourself out to mister want to be!Which for a couple bucks is nothing!!!Guess you can't be trusted! Mr. Mike Morris! Wa6ilg, so impressed, no code! wannabie!!! yes you are!!! --- On Sun, 6/20/10, Mike Morris wa6...@gmail.com wrote: From: Mike Morris wa6...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Astron RS50 Power Supply To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, June 20, 2010, 6:23 PM At 11:22 AM 06/20/10, you wrote: Hi Guys, I am trying to download a schematic on this site for the RS50M Power Supply and keep getting a 404 Error on each attempt on all the supplies. Any ideas? Did you use the email link on the 404 page to tell the guys at repeater-builder? I just checked the RS50 links and they all seem to work... Let me know which link doesn't work and I'll fix it. You might want to read the repair and modification notes on the Introductory Information page. At the least you should add the missing compensation cap and the missing lock washers. Make sure the negative side of the supply is NOT connected to the case. Eric WB6FLY posted a informative note about that a while back. It's reproduced on the Introductory Information page. According to the schematic the main diodes in the RS-50 is the 1N1184A. International Rectifier calls it a 40 amp diode. What brand is in your unit? I rebuilt an RS50 a couple of years ago and used a pair of the 1N2129A (60 amp diode). If I were to do it over again I'd use a 100a diode like the 1N3288 that I use in the RS-70. Mike WA6ILQ
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Astron RS50 Power Supply
Also our above mentioned power supply which operates our 2 Meter and 440 Repeaters and a low power link started humming yesterday. A trip to the tower showed that the two large wires coming from the Pass Transistors to the post on top of the regulator board and into the 1000 Uf Electrolytic got so hot it melted the insulation an inch back on the wires, burned an area the size of a quarter on the fiter side of the regulator board, turned the terminal black on the Cap. and cracked the plastic on the cap. It never blew the fuse and a check of the voltage showed it regulating under load and hardly a trace of AC on the 13 volt output. The MOV or eight amp AC fuse never blew. All the equipment hooked to the supply took off and worked well on another supply. Anyone have a guess as to what caused this obvious surge ontop of the cap? I am going to replace the Cap. and one resistor on the regular board which is discolored and hope for the best. Any advise appreciated. Thanks in advance JIM KA2AJH Wellsville, N.Y. I've seen this happen a number of times to RM-50's and RS-50's, most recently to an RS-50M that's one of my bench supplies. That connection (where the high-current wires connect to the top of the filter cap with the PC board sandwiched inbetween) leaves something to be desired. Eventually it becomes a point of high resistance, either due to the screws/lockwasher no longer being tight due to vibration or through thermal cycling, or the copper foil oxidizes a bit, or similar causes. Once the resistance goes up even a little, the heat caused by I2R at that point only worsens the problem, and ultimately it becomes a thermal runaway kind of a situation, yielding the results that you saw. Bottom line - there probably wasn't any surge that set this off, it was a function of design and age. --- Jeff WN3A
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Astron RS50 Power Supply
Jeff DePolo wrote: Everyone is entitled to make an ass out of himself now and then, but you're abusing the privilege... Now that's funny... BTW: I had set the dudes posting privileges to Moderated, but Scott decided to toss him - - Scott wins. Onward and Upward. Kevin Custer
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Astron RS50 Power Supply
My guess is that it was a heat problem due to a faulty solder joint on the pass transistors socket. -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of James Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 2:22 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Astron RS50 Power Supply Hi Guys, I am trying to download a schematic on this site for the RS50M Power Supply and keep getting a 404 Error on each attempt on all the supplies. Any ideas? Also our above mentioned power supply which operates our 2 Meter and 440 Repeaters and a low power link started humming yesterday. A trip to the tower showed that the two large wires coming from the Pass Transistors to the post on top of the regulator board and into the 1000 Uf Electrolytic got so hot it melted the insulation an inch back on the wires, burned an area the size of a quarter on the fiter side of the regulator board, turned the terminal black on the Cap. and cracked the plastic on the cap. It never blew the fuse and a check of the voltage showed it regulating under load and hardly a trace of AC on the 13 volt output. The MOV or eight amp AC fuse never blew. All the equipment hooked to the supply took off and worked well on another supply. Anyone have a guess as to what caused this obvious surge ontop of the cap? I am going to replace the Cap. and one resistor on the regular board which is discolored and hope for the best. Any advise appreciated. Thanks in advance JIM KA2AJH Wellsville, N.Y.
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Astron RS50 Power Supply
Yep, that size electrolytic actually have liguid between the plates. Can't give you the actual chemical breakdown. (-; After time they just dry out normal. Shake the cap, bet you will hear either nothin or crap rollin indide! Kevin --- On Sun, 6/20/10, Leroy A. M. Baptiste leroybapti...@spiceisle.com wrote: From: Leroy A. M. Baptiste leroybapti...@spiceisle.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Astron RS50 Power Supply To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, June 20, 2010, 2:38 PM My guess is that it was a heat problem due to a faulty solder joint on the pass transistors socket. -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of James Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 2:22 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Astron RS50 Power Supply Hi Guys, I am trying to download a schematic on this site for the RS50M Power Supply and keep getting a 404 Error on each attempt on all the supplies. Any ideas? Also our above mentioned power supply which operates our 2 Meter and 440 Repeaters and a low power link started humming yesterday. A trip to the tower showed that the two large wires coming from the Pass Transistors to the post on top of the regulator board and into the 1000 Uf Electrolytic got so hot it melted the insulation an inch back on the wires, burned an area the size of a quarter on the fiter side of the regulator board, turned the terminal black on the Cap. and cracked the plastic on the cap. It never blew the fuse and a check of the voltage showed it regulating under load and hardly a trace of AC on the 13 volt output. The MOV or eight amp AC fuse never blew. All the equipment hooked to the supply took off and worked well on another supply. Anyone have a guess as to what caused this obvious surge ontop of the cap? I am going to replace the Cap. and one resistor on the regular board which is discolored and hope for the best. Any advise appreciated. Thanks in advance JIM KA2AJH Wellsville, N.Y.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Astron RS50 Power Supply
Those older? units actually have an out of phase tap on the Xfmr, 10v? or somethin! forget what color the leads are, can check. Believe it or not I have brought several of them back to life by just soaking the transformer in varnish and letting it dry of course! That feedback winding oscillates and vibrates the xfmr resulting in non(good) stabilization of the xfmr, vibrates for so long, actually loosen's the windings Now everyone is gonna say i am nuts! For the cost of a can of varnish, think you actually have to use polyurethane today, just try it! beats the cost of a new supply! And of course change all eletrolytics if it is the one wit h a gaint amount of 2N3055 (mpn)or equiv on the outs than i am totally correct! The ic is a national LM723. or just 732? working off old memory here as i now use switchers prob got the schematic for that rig somewhere. used them in a lot of bases in the day, before i got smart enough to swap them out Kevin- On Sun, 6/20/10, James ka2...@gmail.com wrote: From: James ka2...@gmail.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Astron RS50 Power Supply To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, June 20, 2010, 2:22 PM Hi Guys, I am trying to download a schematic on this site for the RS50M Power Supply and keep getting a 404 Error on each attempt on all the supplies. Any ideas? Also our above mentioned power supply which operates our 2 Meter and 440 Repeaters and a low power link started humming yesterday. A trip to the tower showed that the two large wires coming from the Pass Transistors to the post on top of the regulator board and into the 1000 Uf Electrolytic got so hot it melted the insulation an inch back on the wires, burned an area the size of a quarter on the fiter side of the regulator board, turned the terminal black on the Cap. and cracked the plastic on the cap. It never blew the fuse and a check of the voltage showed it regulating under load and hardly a trace of AC on the 13 volt output. The MOV or eight amp AC fuse never blew. All the equipment hooked to the supply took off and worked well on another supply. Anyone have a guess as to what caused this obvious surge ontop of the cap? I am going to replace the Cap. and one resistor on the regular board which is discolored and hope for the best. Any advise appreciated. Thanks in advance JIM KA2AJH Wellsville, N.Y.
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Astron RS50 Power Supply
The RS-50 schematic is here: www.repeater-builder.com/astron/pix/astron-rm50a-bb.jpg 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kevin valentino Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 12:17 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Astron RS50 Power Supply Those older? units actually have an out of phase tap on the Xfmr, 10v? or somethin! forget what color the leads are, can check. Believe it or not I have brought several of them back to life by just soaking the transformer in varnish and letting it dry of course! That feedback winding oscillates and vibrates the xfmr resulting in non(good) stabilization of the xfmr, vibrates for so long, actually loosen's the windings Now everyone is gonna say i am nuts! For the cost of a can of varnish, think you actually have to use polyurethane today, just try it! beats the cost of a new supply! And of course change all eletrolytics if it is the one wit h a gaint amount of 2N3055 (mpn)or equiv on the outs than i am totally correct! The ic is a national LM723. or just 732? working off old memory here as i now use switchers prob got the schematic for that rig somewhere. used them in a lot of bases in the day, before i got smart enough to swap them out Kevin- On Sun, 6/20/10, James ka2...@gmail.com wrote: From: James ka2...@gmail.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Astron RS50 Power Supply To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, June 20, 2010, 2:22 PM Hi Guys, I am trying to download a schematic on this site for the RS50M Power Supply and keep getting a 404 Error on each attempt on all the supplies. Any ideas? Also our above mentioned power supply which operates our 2 Meter and 440 Repeaters and a low power link started humming yesterday. A trip to the tower showed that the two large wires coming from the Pass Transistors to the post on top of the regulator board and into the 1000 Uf Electrolytic got so hot it melted the insulation an inch back on the wires, burned an area the size of a quarter on the fiter side of the regulator board, turned the terminal black on the Cap. and cracked the plastic on the cap. It never blew the fuse and a check of the voltage showed it regulating under load and hardly a trace of AC on the 13 volt output. The MOV or eight amp AC fuse never blew. All the equipment hooked to the supply took off and worked well on another supply. Anyone have a guess as to what caused this obvious surge ontop of the cap? I am going to replace the Cap. and one resistor on the regular board which is discolored and hope for the best. Any advise appreciated. Thanks in advance JIM KA2AJH Wellsville, N.Y.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Astron RS50 Power Supply
At 11:22 AM 06/20/10, you wrote: Hi Guys, I am trying to download a schematic on this site for the RS50M Power Supply and keep getting a 404 Error on each attempt on all the supplies. Any ideas? Did you use the email link on the 404 page to tell the guys at repeater-builder? I just checked the RS50 links and they all seem to work... Let me know which link doesn't work and I'll fix it. You might want to read the repair and modification notes on the Introductory Information page. At the least you should add the missing compensation cap and the missing lock washers. Make sure the negative side of the supply is NOT connected to the case. Eric WB6FLY posted a informative note about that a while back. It's reproduced on the Introductory Information page. According to the schematic the main diodes in the RS-50 is the 1N1184A. International Rectifier calls it a 40 amp diode. What brand is in your unit? I rebuilt an RS50 a couple of years ago and used a pair of the 1N2129A (60 amp diode). If I were to do it over again I'd use a 100a diode like the 1N3288 that I use in the RS-70. Mike WA6ILQ
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Astron RS50 Power Supply
I must have missed it, but what is the deal of not connecting the negative side of an Astron Supply to case? -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike Morris Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 6:24 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Astron RS50 Power Supply At 11:22 AM 06/20/10, you wrote: Hi Guys, I am trying to download a schematic on this site for the RS50M Power Supply and keep getting a 404 Error on each attempt on all the supplies. Any ideas? Did you use the email link on the 404 page to tell the guys at repeater-builder? I just checked the RS50 links and they all seem to work... Let me know which link doesn't work and I'll fix it. You might want to read the repair and modification notes on the Introductory Information page. At the least you should add the missing compensation cap and the missing lock washers. Make sure the negative side of the supply is NOT connected to the case. Eric WB6FLY posted a informative note about that a while back. It's reproduced on the Introductory Information page. According to the schematic the main diodes in the RS-50 is the 1N1184A. International Rectifier calls it a 40 amp diode. What brand is in your unit? I rebuilt an RS50 a couple of years ago and used a pair of the 1N2129A (60 amp diode). If I were to do it over again I'd use a 100a diode like the 1N3288 that I use in the RS-70. Mike WA6ILQ
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Astron RS50 Power Supply
Most likely it helps avoid ground loop hum assuming the green wire is connected to the case. I have a computer switching power supply converted for 13.8V which does have the neg. connected to the case and the green wire and in some situations it does have 60 cycle hum. John Lock kf0m at arrl.net -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com]on Behalf Of Leroy A. M. Baptiste Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 5:28 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Astron RS50 Power Supply I must have missed it, but what is the deal of not connecting the negative side of an Astron Supply to case? -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike Morris Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 6:24 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Astron RS50 Power Supply
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Astron RS50 Power Supply
Leroy, The problem is that the jumper wire or PCB trace- if it exists- will create a common and low-impedance connection between the AC and the DC sources in a station. This may not cause a problem for some systems, but is certainly not a recommended practice where DC power returns and signal common conductors are at similar potentials. It is a long-established practice in the power, broadcast, and communications industries that there should be only one connection where all signal and power grounds are brought together. For residential and commercial wiring, the National Electrical Code (NFPA 70) calls this point the service. The Code is very explicit that the service is where CATV coaxial shields, telephone line protectors, and the power neutral are joined. Likewise, most cellular and LMR stations follow such guidelines as the Motorola R56 Manual, which specifies a ground window where station grounds, power grounds, and feedline grounds are made common. To establish additional grounds at DC power supply returns is almost certain to create ground loops that will interfere with sensitive equipment and circuits. A case in point: My 6m repeater controller would lock up periodically, requiring a 60-mile round trip to the mountaintop site to reset the system. When these lockups occurred, both the primary receiver and the link receiver were deaf, and I lost control of the repeater. The cause was not apparent, since the lockups occurred in clear, mild weather with no obvious causes. On a hunch, I tested the Astron RS-35M power supply and discovered that the negative output terminal was jumpered to the chassis. I removed that jumper, and the problem went away-forever. My guess is that a surge from a nearby air-conditioning system was coupled into the grounding system, and the resulting spike on the DC return for the controller caused it to be corrupted. Another repeater that used an Astron power supply had a low-level 60 Hz hum on the audio that was audible only at base stations, which used larger speakers than portables or mobiles. After I did some head-scratching, I surmised that the hum was not a ripple from the power supply, since that would be 120 Hz in a power supply with a full-wave rectifier. This repeater had a gel-cell battery floating on the power supply output (with a Schottky blocking diode, of course), and I noticed that the hum stayed when I turned off the power supply. However, the hum went away when I unplugged the power supply. Aha! Once I removed the internal jumper connecting the negative terminal lug to the chassis, all was well. Astron is not consistent with these jumpers; some models of power supplies- both linear and switching- have them, but not all. IMHO, the station designer should decide where and how the system grounds should be connected, and not the manufacturer of a power supply. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Leroy A. M. Baptiste Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 3:28 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Astron RS50 Power Supply I must have missed it, but what is the deal of not connecting the negative side of an Astron Supply to case? -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Mike Morris Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 6:24 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Astron RS50 Power Supply At 11:22 AM 06/20/10, you wrote: Hi Guys, I am trying to download a schematic on this site for the RS50M Power Supply and keep getting a 404 Error on each attempt on all the supplies. Any ideas? Did you use the email link on the 404 page to tell the guys at repeater-builder? I just checked the RS50 links and they all seem to work... Let me know which link doesn't work and I'll fix it. You might want to read the repair and modification notes on the Introductory Information page. At the least you should add the missing compensation cap and the missing lock washers. Make sure the negative side of the supply is NOT connected to the case. Eric WB6FLY posted a informative note about that a while back. It's reproduced on the Introductory Information page. According to the schematic the main diodes in the RS-50 is the 1N1184A. International Rectifier calls it a 40 amp diode. What brand is in your unit? I rebuilt an RS50 a couple of years ago and used a pair of the 1N2129A (60 amp diode). If I were to do it over again I'd use a 100a diode like the 1N3288 that I use in the RS-70. Mike WA6ILQ
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Astron RS50 Power Supply
I really have kept an eye onLemon$ He is very smart but loves to say on just repeated specs and letting you know where to get a service manual. I think he is a brainwashed head by the big M. do what i said or buy a $250 Switcher, That simple! or make your life miserable tryin to fix the thing. Hey $250 might be a lot of beans, butt beats a(a) 1500 to replace that astron peixe of crap! USU SAMLEXbeats payin a grand or more!! oh yeay, can see this comin, locked and loaded verbally! Bring it Lemmon. you are not ready for my experience Not even close to my age, so would love fot you to bring it on, Smart A.. --- On Sun, 6/20/10, Eric Lemmon wb6...@verizon.net wrote: From: Eric Lemmon wb6...@verizon.net Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Astron RS50 Power Supply To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, June 20, 2010, 8:07 PM Leroy, The problem is that the jumper wire or PCB trace- if it exists- will create a common and low-impedance connection between the AC and the DC sources in a station. This may not cause a problem for some systems, but is certainly not a recommended practice where DC power returns and signal common conductors are at similar potentials. It is a long-established practice in the power, broadcast, and communications industries that there should be only one connection where all signal and power grounds are brought together. For residential and commercial wiring, the National Electrical Code (NFPA 70) calls this point the service. The Code is very explicit that the service is where CATV coaxial shields, telephone line protectors, and the power neutral are joined. Likewise, most cellular and LMR stations follow such guidelines as the Motorola R56 Manual, which specifies a ground window where station grounds, power grounds, and feedline grounds are made common. To establish additional grounds at DC power supply returns is almost certain to create ground loops that will interfere with sensitive equipment and circuits. A case in point: My 6m repeater controller would lock up periodically, requiring a 60-mile round trip to the mountaintop site to reset the system. When these lockups occurred, both the primary receiver and the link receiver were deaf, and I lost control of the repeater. The cause was not apparent, since the lockups occurred in clear, mild weather with no obvious causes. On a hunch, I tested the Astron RS-35M power supply and discovered that the negative output terminal was jumpered to the chassis. I removed that jumper, and the problem went away-forever. My guess is that a surge from a nearby air-conditioning system was coupled into the grounding system, and the resulting spike on the DC return for the controller caused it to be corrupted. Another repeater that used an Astron power supply had a low-level 60 Hz hum on the audio that was audible only at base stations, which used larger speakers than portables or mobiles. After I did some head-scratching, I surmised that the hum was not a ripple from the power supply, since that would be 120 Hz in a power supply with a full-wave rectifier. This repeater had a gel-cell battery floating on the power supply output (with a Schottky blocking diode, of course), and I noticed that the hum stayed when I turned off the power supply. However, the hum went away when I unplugged the power supply. Aha! Once I removed the internal jumper connecting the negative terminal lug to the chassis, all was well. Astron is not consistent with these jumpers; some models of power supplies- both linear and switching- have them, but not all. IMHO, the station designer should decide where and how the system grounds should be connected, and not the manufacturer of a power supply. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Leroy A. M. Baptiste Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 3:28 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Astron RS50 Power Supply I must have missed it, but what is the deal of not connecting the negative side of an Astron Supply to case? -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Mike Morris Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 6:24 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Astron RS50 Power Supply At 11:22 AM 06/20/10, you wrote: Hi Guys, I am trying to download a schematic on this site for the RS50M Power Supply and keep getting a 404 Error on each attempt on all the supplies. Any ideas? Did you use the email link on the 404 page to tell the guys at repeater-builder? I just checked the RS50 links and they all seem to work... Let me know which link doesn't work and I'll fix it. You might want to read the repair and modification notes
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Astron RS50 Power Supply
60 cyc hum! --- On Sun, 6/20/10, Leroy A. M. Baptiste leroybapti...@spiceisle.com wrote: From: Leroy A. M. Baptiste leroybapti...@spiceisle.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Astron RS50 Power Supply To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, June 20, 2010, 6:27 PM I must have missed it, but what is the deal of not connecting the negative side of an Astron Supply to case? -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike Morris Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 6:24 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Astron RS50 Power Supply At 11:22 AM 06/20/10, you wrote: Hi Guys, I am trying to download a schematic on this site for the RS50M Power Supply and keep getting a 404 Error on each attempt on all the supplies. Any ideas? Did you use the email link on the 404 page to tell the guys at repeater-builder? I just checked the RS50 links and they all seem to work... Let me know which link doesn't work and I'll fix it. You might want to read the repair and modification notes on the Introductory Information page. At the least you should add the missing compensation cap and the missing lock washers. Make sure the negative side of the supply is NOT connected to the case. Eric WB6FLY posted a informative note about that a while back. It's reproduced on the Introductory Information page. According to the schematic the main diodes in the RS-50 is the 1N1184A. International Rectifier calls it a 40 amp diode. What brand is in your unit? I rebuilt an RS50 a couple of years ago and used a pair of the 1N2129A (60 amp diode). If I were to do it over again I'd use a 100a diode like the 1N3288 that I use in the RS-70. Mike WA6ILQ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Astron RS50 Power Supply
This forum can well do without this spittle drooling moronic crap. In a message dated 6/20/2010 5:49:23 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, kevinvalent...@sbcglobal.net writes: I really have kept an eye onLemon$ He is very smart but loves to say on just repeated specs and letting you know where to get a service manual. I think he is a brainwashed head by the big M. do what i said or buy a $250 Switcher, That simple! or make your life miserable tryin to fix the thing. Hey $250 might be a lot of beans, butt beats a(a) 1500 to replace that astron peixe of crap! USU SAMLEXbeats payin a grand or more!! oh yeay, can see this comin, locked and loaded verbally! Bring it Lemmon. you are not ready for my experience!! do what i said or buy a $250 Switcher, That simple! or make your life miserable
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Astron RS50 Power Supply
That is right! --- On Sun, 6/20/10, cruising7...@aol.com cruising7...@aol.com wrote: From: cruising7...@aol.com cruising7...@aol.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Astron RS50 Power Supply To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, June 20, 2010, 8:58 PM This forum can well do without this spittle drooling moronic crap. In a message dated 6/20/2010 5:49:23 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, kevinvalentino@ sbcglobal. net writes: I really have kept an eye onLemon$ He is very smart but loves to say on just repeated specs and letting you know where to get a service manual. I think he is a brainwashed head by the big M. do what i said or buy a $250 Switcher, That simple! or make your life miserable tryin to fix the thing. Hey $250 might be a lot of beans, butt beats a(a) 1500 to replace that astron peixe of crap! USU SAMLEXbeats payin a grand or more!! oh yeay, can see this comin, locked and loaded verbally! Bring it Lemmon. you are not ready for my experience!! !! Not even close to my age, so would love fot you to bring it on, Smart A..
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Astron RS50 Power Supply
Yeah. exactally what i said in s nutshe! Oscillation in thelinear transformer! --- On Sun, 6/20/10, kevin valentino kevinvalent...@sbcglobal.net wrote: From: kevin valentino kevinvalent...@sbcglobal.net Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Astron RS50 Power Supply To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, June 20, 2010, 8:49 PM I really have kept an eye onLemon$ He is very smart but loves to say on just repeated specs and letting you know where to get a service manual. I think he is a brainwashed head by the big M. do what i said or buy a $250 Switcher, That simple! or make your life miserable tryin to fix the thing. Hey $250 might be a lot of beans, butt beats a(a) 1500 to replace that astron peixe of crap! USU SAMLEXbeats payin a grand or more!! oh yeay, can see this comin, locked and loaded verbally! Bring it Lemmon. you are not ready for my experience!! !! Not even close to my age, so would love fot you to bring it on, Smart A.. --- On Sun, 6/20/10, Eric Lemmon wb6...@verizon. net wrote: From: Eric Lemmon wb6...@verizon. net Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Astron RS50 Power Supply To: Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com Date: Sunday, June 20, 2010, 8:07 PM Leroy, The problem is that the jumper wire or PCB trace- if it exists- will create a common and low-impedance connection between the AC and the DC sources in a station. This may not cause a problem for some systems, but is certainly not a recommended practice where DC power returns and signal common conductors are at similar potentials. It is a long-established practice in the power, broadcast, and communications industries that there should be only one connection where all signal and power grounds are brought together. For residential and commercial wiring, the National Electrical Code (NFPA 70) calls this point the service. The Code is very explicit that the service is where CATV coaxial shields, telephone line protectors, and the power neutral are joined. Likewise, most cellular and LMR stations follow such guidelines as the Motorola R56 Manual, which specifies a ground window where station grounds, power grounds, and feedline grounds are made common. To establish additional grounds at DC power supply returns is almost certain to create ground loops that will interfere with sensitive equipment and circuits. A case in point: My 6m repeater controller would lock up periodically, requiring a 60-mile round trip to the mountaintop site to reset the system. When these lockups occurred, both the primary receiver and the link receiver were deaf, and I lost control of the repeater. The cause was not apparent, since the lockups occurred in clear, mild weather with no obvious causes. On a hunch, I tested the Astron RS-35M power supply and discovered that the negative output terminal was jumpered to the chassis. I removed that jumper, and the problem went away-forever. My guess is that a surge from a nearby air-conditioning system was coupled into the grounding system, and the resulting spike on the DC return for the controller caused it to be corrupted. Another repeater that used an Astron power supply had a low-level 60 Hz hum on the audio that was audible only at base stations, which used larger speakers than portables or mobiles. After I did some head-scratching, I surmised that the hum was not a ripple from the power supply, since that would be 120 Hz in a power supply with a full-wave rectifier. This repeater had a gel-cell battery floating on the power supply output (with a Schottky blocking diode, of course), and I noticed that the hum stayed when I turned off the power supply. However, the hum went away when I unplugged the power supply. Aha! Once I removed the internal jumper connecting the negative terminal lug to the chassis, all was well. Astron is not consistent with these jumpers; some models of power supplies- both linear and switching- have them, but not all. IMHO, the station designer should decide where and how the system grounds should be connected, and not the manufacturer of a power supply. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Leroy A. M. Baptiste Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 3:28 PM To: Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Astron RS50 Power Supply I must have missed it, but what is the deal of not connecting the negative side of an Astron Supply to case? -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com mailto:Repeater- Builder%40yahoog roups.com [mailto:Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com mailto:Repeater- Builder%40yahoog roups.com ] On Behalf Of Mike Morris Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 6:24 PM To: Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com mailto:Repeater- Builder%40yahoog roups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Astron RS50 Power Supply At 11:22 AM 06/20/10, you wrote: Hi Guys, I am trying to download
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Astron RS50 Power Supply
Hey you still owe me 3 # bucks for sending you a Uniden key! Hope the whole world knows know! you just blew me off?!!! it was over a year ago at least! sent you several emails. guess if you can't afford a couple bucks then you should not to try to make yourself out to mister want to be!Which for a couple bucks is nothing!!!Guess you can't be trusted! Mr. Mike Morris! Wa6ilg, so impressed, no code! wannabie!!! yes you are!!! --- On Sun, 6/20/10, Mike Morris wa6...@gmail.com wrote: From: Mike Morris wa6...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Astron RS50 Power Supply To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, June 20, 2010, 6:23 PM At 11:22 AM 06/20/10, you wrote: Hi Guys, I am trying to download a schematic on this site for the RS50M Power Supply and keep getting a 404 Error on each attempt on all the supplies. Any ideas? Did you use the email link on the 404 page to tell the guys at repeater-builder? I just checked the RS50 links and they all seem to work... Let me know which link doesn't work and I'll fix it. You might want to read the repair and modification notes on the Introductory Information page. At the least you should add the missing compensation cap and the missing lock washers. Make sure the negative side of the supply is NOT connected to the case. Eric WB6FLY posted a informative note about that a while back. It's reproduced on the Introductory Information page. According to the schematic the main diodes in the RS-50 is the 1N1184A. International Rectifier calls it a 40 amp diode. What brand is in your unit? I rebuilt an RS50 a couple of years ago and used a pair of the 1N2129A (60 amp diode). If I were to do it over again I'd use a 100a diode like the 1N3288 that I use in the RS-70. Mike WA6ILQ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Astron RS50 Power Supply
oops, :Q --- On Sun, 6/20/10, kevin valentino kevinvalent...@sbcglobal.net wrote: From: kevin valentino kevinvalent...@sbcglobal.net Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Astron RS50 Power Supply To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, June 20, 2010, 9:21 PM Hey you still owe me 3 # bucks for sending you a Uniden key! Hope the whole world knows know! you just blew me off? !!! it was over a year ago at least! sent you several emails. guess if you can't afford a couple bucks then you should not to try to make yourself out to mister want to be!Which for a couple bucks is nothing! !!Guess you can't be trusted! Mr. Mike Morris! Wa6ilg, so impressed, no code! wannabie ! ! ! yes you are! ! ! --- On Sun, 6/20/10, Mike Morris wa6...@gmail. com wrote: From: Mike Morris wa6...@gmail. com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Astron RS50 Power Supply To: Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com Date: Sunday, June 20, 2010, 6:23 PM At 11:22 AM 06/20/10, you wrote: Hi Guys, I am trying to download a schematic on this site for the RS50M Power Supply and keep getting a 404 Error on each attempt on all the supplies. Any ideas? Did you use the email link on the 404 page to tell the guys at repeater-builder? I just checked the RS50 links and they all seem to work... Let me know which link doesn't work and I'll fix it. You might want to read the repair and modification notes on the Introductory Information page. At the least you should add the missing compensation cap and the missing lock washers. Make sure the negative side of the supply is NOT connected to the case. Eric WB6FLY posted a informative note about that a while back. It's reproduced on the Introductory Information page. According to the schematic the main diodes in the RS-50 is the 1N1184A. International Rectifier calls it a 40 amp diode. What brand is in your unit? I rebuilt an RS50 a couple of years ago and used a pair of the 1N2129A (60 amp diode). If I were to do it over again I'd use a 100a diode like the 1N3288 that I use in the RS-70. Mike WA6ILQ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Astron RS50 Power Supply
I've had enough of this guy. He's gone. You're all welcome. Scott - List Co-Owner Scott Zimmerman Amateur Radio Call N3XCC 474 Barnett Road Boswell, PA 15531 kevin valentino wrote: *Hey you still owe me 3 # bucks for sending you a Uniden key!* Hope the whole world knows know! you just blew me off?!!! it was over a year ago at least!* sent you several emails. guess if you can't afford a couple bucks then you should not to try to make yourself out to mister want to be!Which for a couple bucks is nothing!!!Guess you can't be* *trusted! Mr. Mike Morris! Wa6ilg, so impressed, no code! wannabie!!! yes you are!!!* --- On *Sun, 6/20/10, Mike Morris /wa6...@gmail.com/* wrote: From: Mike Morris wa6...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Astron RS50 Power Supply To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, June 20, 2010, 6:23 PM At 11:22 AM 06/20/10, you wrote: Hi Guys, I am trying to download a schematic on this site for the RS50M Power Supply and keep getting a 404 Error on each attempt on all the supplies. Any ideas? Did you use the email link on the 404 page to tell the guys at repeater-builder? I just checked the RS50 links and they all seem to work... Let me know which link doesn't work and I'll fix it. You might want to read the repair and modification notes on the Introductory Information page. At the least you should add the missing compensation cap and the missing lock washers. Make sure the negative side of the supply is NOT connected to the case. Eric WB6FLY posted a informative note about that a while back. It's reproduced on the Introductory Information page. According to the schematic the main diodes in the RS-50 is the 1N1184A. International Rectifier calls it a 40 amp diode. What brand is in your unit? I rebuilt an RS50 a couple of years ago and used a pair of the 1N2129A (60 amp diode). If I were to do it over again I'd use a 100a diode like the 1N3288 that I use in the RS-70. Mike WA6ILQ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Astron RS50 Power Supply
Thanks Scott..Lee On Sun, Jun 20, 2010 at 9:56 PM, Scott Zimmerman n3...@repeater-builder.com wrote: I've had enough of this guy. He's gone. You're all welcome. Scott - List Co-Owner Scott Zimmerman Amateur Radio Call N3XCC 474 Barnett Road Boswell, PA 15531 kevin valentino wrote: *Hey you still owe me 3 # bucks for sending you a Uniden key!* Hope the whole world knows know! you just blew me off?!!! it was over a year ago at least!* sent you several emails. guess if you can't afford a couple bucks then you should not to try to make yourself out to mister want to be!Which for a couple bucks is nothing!!!Guess you can't be* *trusted! Mr. Mike Morris! Wa6ilg, so impressed, no code! wannabie!!! yes you are!!!* --- On *Sun, 6/20/10, Mike Morris /wa6...@gmail.comwa6ilq%40gmail.com/* wrote: From: Mike Morris wa6...@gmail.com wa6ilq%40gmail.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Astron RS50 Power Supply To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.comRepeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, June 20, 2010, 6:23 PM At 11:22 AM 06/20/10, you wrote: Hi Guys, I am trying to download a schematic on this site for the RS50M Power Supply and keep getting a 404 Error on each attempt on all the supplies. Any ideas? Did you use the email link on the 404 page to tell the guys at repeater-builder? I just checked the RS50 links and they all seem to work... Let me know which link doesn't work and I'll fix it. You might want to read the repair and modification notes on the Introductory Information page. At the least you should add the missing compensation cap and the missing lock washers. Make sure the negative side of the supply is NOT connected to the case. Eric WB6FLY posted a informative note about that a while back. It's reproduced on the Introductory Information page. According to the schematic the main diodes in the RS-50 is the 1N1184A. International Rectifier calls it a 40 amp diode. What brand is in your unit? I rebuilt an RS50 a couple of years ago and used a pair of the 1N2129A (60 amp diode). If I were to do it over again I'd use a 100a diode like the 1N3288 that I use in the RS-70. Mike WA6ILQ -- Always drink upstream from the herd.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Astron RS50 Power Supply
Grazi ! In a message dated 6/20/2010 6:57:38 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, n3...@repeater-builder.com writes: I've had enough of this guy. He's gone. You're all welcome. Scott - List Co-Owner
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Astron RS50 Power Supply
Scott Zimmerman wrote: I've had enough of this guy. He's gone. You're all welcome. Scott - List Co-Owner Scott Zimmerman Amateur Radio Call N3XCC 474 Barnett Road Boswell, PA 15531 Thank you... Ed Yoho W6YJ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Astron RS50 Power Supply
At 06:21 PM 06/20/10, you wrote: Hey you still owe me 3 # bucks for sending you a Uniden key! Hope the whole world knows know! you just blew me off?!!! it was over a year ago at least! sent you several emails. guess if you can't afford a couple bucks then you should not to try to make yourself out to mister want to be!Which for a couple bucks is nothing!!!Guess you can't be trusted! Mr. Mike Morris! Wa6ilg, so impressed, no code! wannabie!!! yes you are!!! You don't even remember that you asked for $2.50, not $3. Here's your original message: Date: Sun, 22 Nov 2009 18:16:35 -0800 (PST) From: kevin valentino kevinvalent...@sbcglobal.net Subject: Re: Uniden Key (off-list message) To: Mike Morris WA6ILQ wa6...@gmail.com Mike, dont know if you saw the post on the repeater builder site, any way i got a key cut toot sweet just like last time, only this time i asked him how he did it. anyway i will mail you the key tomorrow. if it works you owe me $2.50 kevin 1) I sent you $5 CASH the day after the key arrived, return receipt requested, and I got the receipt back. 2) No code? I doubt it. I've been involved with commercial 2-way since the early 70s. I got my amateur license in 1975, I finally got around to actually getting my commercial in 1984. When did you get yours? If you go to http://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/UlsSearch/searchLicense.jsp and run just Valentino you get back 41, and the only Kevin is WQKH982. Running the FRN of 0018791582 shows NO other licenses. By the way, Mr. Valentino, I just checked and you are on permanent moderation (and I didn't put you there). Be nice, calm, respectful and take your meds. Your postings might be approved (if someone else doesn't delete you and ban you first). Mike WA6ILQ
