Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Show Must Go On - SoaS for the XO-1
On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 6:41 AM, Jonas Smedegaardd...@jones.dk wrote: What if we developers only announce in developer-oriented forums and someone else (marketing team?) takes the task of communicating it to end users? Hmm. That sounds rigid to me. I suggest transforming it into this instead: Beware of the target audience of the list you post to. If you are unsure if your message could be misinterpreted (e.g. if you are a geek with a message to end users) then consider passing it through someone more devoted to communicating (e.g. the marketing team). Well put. SJ ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Show Must Go On - SoaS for the XO-1
Wow, great stuff, can't wait to try this out at home!! One question though: Do I have to write the image to NAND or can I also directly boot the XO from an SD-card / USB key? Thanks and keep up the excellent work! Christoph Zitat von Sebastian Dziallas sebast...@when.com: Hi everybody, I'm very pleased to announce the first early preview of a new generation of SoaS XO-1 images. Those consist not only of the latest and greatest Sugar bits, but also a F11 base system and a special OLPC kernel based on 2.6.30. This means now that even power management actually works out of the box. There are some other points, for example the mostly working keyboard keys. But this is really just a preview! You'll notice only very few activities in your home view, which is due to a mistake in our config files. You'd be able to symlink the folders from /usr/share/sugar/honey to ~/Activities, though. This is a known issue, but if you come across others, please let us know! Finally, I'd like to take the chance to thank all the people for their tremendous work, especially Martin Dengler and all the folks at OLPC! Now how can you get that? Just download the following two files: http://download.sugarlabs.org/soas/xoimages/devxo-1.crc http://download.sugarlabs.org/soas/xoimages/devxo-1.img Put them on a USB key or a SD card, plug them into your XO and execute: copy-nand u:\devxo-1.img or copy-nand sd:\devxo-1.img Note that you'll need to have an unlocked XO and the latest firmware! So. Happy hacking and let us know what you think! :) --Sebastian ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) i...@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep -- Christoph Derndorfer co-editor, olpcnews url: www.olpcnews.com e-mail: christ...@olpcnews.com ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Show Must Go On - SoaS for the XO-1
You know where to find me :-) On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 11:38 AM, Simon Schampijersi...@schampijer.de wrote: On 06/17/2009 11:34 AM, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 11:30, Sean DALYsdaly...@gmail.com wrote: In my view it's never a mistake to indicate that a procedure will wipe all data. We all have a learning curve and the first time I lost all my Journal entries including photos on an XO I wasn't happy about it. I think we shouldn't put the burden of communicating with the general public on the developers. Sebastian is doing an awesome amount of work and he may not have too many spare cycles to think about everything that is required to communicate to the different people. What if we developers only announce in developer-oriented forums and someone else (marketing team?) takes the task of communicating it to end users? Regards, Tomeu That sounds like a very good idea to me. We need to split the workload and try to let people do mostly (of course ideally one should know what is happening a bit in all the teams) what they are good in. +1 from my side, Simon ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Show Must Go On - SoaS for the XO-1
On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 11:12 AM, Martin Denglermar...@martindengler.com wrote: It seems build engineers go to a a lot of effort to create multiple ginormous downloads in .img/.usb/.iso/.bootable.gz formats when they're 99% the same files laid out in different file system(s) with appropriate boot, config, and partition info. Could some day a tool like LiveUSB Creator download only updated files from the net ... It's because those engineers have been whined at about because many Actually, a tool that's most of this smartly, it's called jigdo, and _nobody uses it_. Even projects that do all the setup work and document how end users can use it see little or no usage. It has a commandline. A GUI. Works on Windows. Fetches only the updates. Delivers fluffy bunnies. And almost nobody uses it :-p m -- martin.langh...@gmail.com mar...@laptop.org -- School Server Architect - ask interesting questions - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Show Must Go On - SoaS for the XO-1
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: RIPEMD160 On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 11:34:40AM +0200, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 11:30, Sean DALYsdaly...@gmail.com wrote: In my view it's never a mistake to indicate that a procedure will wipe all data. We all have a learning curve and the first time I lost all my Journal entries including photos on an XO I wasn't happy about it. I think we shouldn't put the burden of communicating with the general public on the developers. Sebastian is doing an awesome amount of work and he may not have too many spare cycles to think about everything that is required to communicate to the different people. What if we developers only announce in developer-oriented forums and someone else (marketing team?) takes the task of communicating it to end users? Hmm. That sounds rigid to me. I suggest transforming it into this instead: Beware of the target audience of the list you post to. If you are unsure if your message could be misinterpreted (e.g. if you are a geek with a message to end users) then consider passing it through someone more devoted to communicating (e.g. the marketing team). Kind regards, - Jonas - -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist og Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEAREDAAYFAko4yEEACgkQn7DbMsAkQLgpWQCfYCqCMmd3Y57JW3PKBbXH0hpG iEcAn3zqGljwToivcctyiH70/ygaoufI =uIhb -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Show Must Go On - SoaS for the XO-1
On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 12:41:05PM +0200, Jonas Smedegaard wrote: What if we developers only announce in developer-oriented forums and someone else (marketing team?) takes the task of communicating it to end users? [...] I suggest transforming it into this instead: Beware of the target audience of the list you post to. If you are unsure if your message could be misinterpreted (e.g. if you are a geek with a message to end users) then consider passing it through someone more devoted to communicating (e.g. the marketing team). Good point, but I think the audience involved has self-selecting down to developer - tester. I don't think we need to be worried about anyone else. Do we need to worry about a person, who a) doesn't understand copy-nand but b) is subscribed to IAEP, suddenly deciding that they'll run mysterious commands on huge downloaded files and end up with something they didn't expect? I don't think that more than a handful of people will do that, if that. Kind regards, - Jonas Martin pgpD4Oowscdqd.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Show Must Go On - SoaS for the XO-1
On 17.06.2009, at 12:56, Martin Dengler wrote: On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 12:41:05PM +0200, Jonas Smedegaard wrote: What if we developers only announce in developer-oriented forums and someone else (marketing team?) takes the task of communicating it to end users? [...] I suggest transforming it into this instead: Beware of the target audience of the list you post to. If you are unsure if your message could be misinterpreted (e.g. if you are a geek with a message to end users) then consider passing it through someone more devoted to communicating (e.g. the marketing team). Good point, but I think the audience involved has self-selecting down to developer - tester. I don't think we need to be worried about anyone else. Do we need to worry about a person, who a) doesn't understand copy-nand but b) is subscribed to IAEP, suddenly deciding that they'll run mysterious commands on huge downloaded files and end up with something they didn't expect? I don't think that more than a handful of people will do that, if that. Many developers can't imagine with how little understanding actual end users approach tasks like this. Even slapping on a big WARNING sign does not really prevent them from severely damaging their system. For you it seems obvious nobody should undertake this unless they know exactly what they're doing. Which is precisely the problem. Saying that developers should not talk to users is only half a joke. It's often frustrating for both sides. You need someone who can think on both levels to mediate. - Bert - ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Show Must Go On - SoaS for the XO-1
On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 12:47 PM, Martin Denglermar...@martindengler.com wrote: Reading the docs, I think that jidgo will allow the user to download (say) a .iso and a .img (NAND) file by downloading the files that are contained in them and then re-assembling the .iso and .img files? You might need to track the iso and img as separate things. But updates to the newer iso or img are just a delta. If iso or NAND-formatted img files were rsync-friendly, this wouldn't be needed. In any case, we can do the technical part alright. We're good at this. The social part is more of a puzzle. Jigdo adds a step and a tool to the process and for some reason that puts people off. The snarky analysis would be: - repeated large downloads are annoying enough to complain - but not enough to use a new tool which is blatantly incomplete. The real thing is that using jigdo depends on jigdo being part of the everyday geek arsenal. It's not, and that's a huge barrier. cheers, m -- martin.langh...@gmail.com mar...@laptop.org -- School Server Architect - ask interesting questions - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Show Must Go On - SoaS for the XO-1
On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 01:38:32PM +0200, Bert Freudenberg wrote: On 17.06.2009, at 12:56, Martin Dengler wrote: On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 12:41:05PM +0200, Jonas Smedegaard wrote: What if we developers only announce in developer-oriented forums and someone else (marketing team?) takes the task of communicating it to end users? [...] I suggest transforming it into this instead: Beware of the target audience of the list you post to. If you are unsure if your message could be misinterpreted (e.g. if you are a geek with a message to end users) then consider passing it through someone more devoted to communicating (e.g. the marketing team). Good point, but I think the audience involved has self-selecting down to developer - tester. I don't think we need to be worried about anyone else. Do we need to worry about a person, who a) doesn't understand copy-nand but b) is subscribed to IAEP, suddenly deciding that they'll run mysterious commands on huge downloaded files and end up with something they didn't expect? I don't think that more than a handful of people will do that, if that. Many developers can't imagine with how little understanding actual end users approach tasks like this. Even slapping on a big WARNING sign does not really prevent them from severely damaging their system. I appreciate the scope of the problem that we're telling lots of people about things that they don't understand...: Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 10:12:10 +0100 From: Martin Dengler mar...@martindengler.com Subject: Re: [Sugar-devel] Show Must Go On - SoaS for the XO-1 To: S Page skierp...@gmail.com Spend a few seconds contemplating how easy those steps can be. Now contemplate how many ways people might screw up each step (mis-type the removable device letter? assume that dd just adds some stuff to their USB stick and get upset when it overwrites their thesis?). ...but I don't think that's the problem: For you it seems obvious nobody should undertake this unless they know exactly what they're doing. Which is precisely the problem. No, that's not the problem. It's people that don't know that they don't know what they're doing. My point is that I think we're worrying about people that a) want to be testers; and b) are so keen that they go copy-nanding (after getting a devkey, etc.) without understanding what they're doing. As I'm saying I don't think there are enough people like that on IAEP/sugar-devel to worry about, and you're saying there are (IIUC). Well, I'm happy to leave it at that. Saying that developers should not talk to users is only half a joke. It's often frustrating for both sides. You need someone who can think on both levels to mediate. I agree, but I think most developers [on this project] *can* but just lack the time. And given the additional time it'd take, I think (as I said directly to S Page and as others have said) that someone else should do it if it's a problem. But I'm glad sdz sent his mail. - Bert - Martin pgpxre5yG3lGX.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Show Must Go On - SoaS for the XO-1
On 17.06.2009, at 14:09, Martin Dengler wrote: No, that's not the problem. It's people that don't know that they don't know what they're doing. My point is that I think we're worrying about people that a) want to be testers; and b) are so keen that they go copy-nanding (after getting a devkey, etc.) without understanding what they're doing. As I'm saying I don't think there are enough people like that on IAEP/sugar-devel to worry about, and you're saying there are (IIUC). I for one would *hope* that on the IAEP list many people do participate who are not necessarily familiar with technical details, but who care deeply about education. Care so much in fact that they are not even detained by these awkward instructions when they try to help. In know there were such people in the OLPC community, and hopefully we are not driving them away by too much tech-talk that is only remotely related to the actual educational goals of the project. Well, I'm happy to leave it at that. Me too. - Bert - ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
