Re: [Biofuel] KOH carbonated
Hello Jim, if you knew the level of carbonation, it would be much simpler. If you treat this KOH as ordinary KOH, you will have a buffer solution in water or methanol. this buffer will not be as effective as you are used to. I suggest that you try a mini-batch and adjust the input of your new KOH according to that. Good luck ! Jan Warnqvist AGERATEC AB [EMAIL PROTECTED] + 46 554 201 89 +46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: JJJN [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: BIO Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 6:07 AM Subject: [Biofuel] KOH carbonated Hello everyone, I just got 50 #s of KOH for next to nothing. It is in flake form but it is carbonated to some extent (unkown). I have some lab grade KOH that is near absolute also. Can anyone give me a complete procedure to make a comparison (Strength %) of one to the other? I want to know because if the one is 10% weaker than the other then I should be able to increase the weaker by 10% to achieve similar results. I understand that from this point I must still tweek some one way or the other. Perhaps my thinking is flawed in assuming the relationship is proportional and I should just use better KOH? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Jim ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Prices of commercial biodiesel
I'm looking for info on commercial biodiesel prices (B100 or blends). Info or pointers to info from any part of the world will be relevant. I live in India and to my knowledge there isn't any retail (or wholesale) sales channel for biodiesel in India at the moment, although it seems there will be a lot of action in this area very soon. Trying to get a feel for what kind of pricelines these players will be playing for and how they will compete with petrodiesel in terms of prices. (Yes, I know biodiesel isn't all just about prices, and I have scanned parts of the J2FE site, but I'd still like to understand the retail or wholesale prices that are in use elsewhere). Thanks for your help. May be we can find (or even build) a live global catalog of prices... will be a cool reference to have... Chandan ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] US Gov plans massive data sweep
"We have an attitude that no one will connect all those dots. But these programs are about connecting those dots -analyzing and aggregating them - in a way that we haven't thought about. What bothers me is what they call suspicious activity. I was stopped and grilled about what I was doing/going a few months back, not by the local police but a dog team with an inspector in charge. Apparently I was "Driving in a suspicious manner", it was midday and I had the wife and 2 dogs with me. Taking the wife out to a country pub for a drink at lunchtimeis now suspicious behaviour in the UK.TheWorld is slowly going mad. Chris. Wessex Ferret Club www.wessexferretclub.co.uk ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] The End of the Internet
Exactly the whole point of the definition in the hackers dictionary. Thanks, Jeromie. Anyway, I can't pretend to be a hacker (however honorable the true meaning of the term may be). Sorry to disappoint all hoping to meet a Matrix character in real life. Chandan Jeromie Reeves wrote: Do not forget the difference between hacker and cracker. The news would have us all think that all hackers==crackers but that simply is not true. The term Hacker first meant a person to did there own computer work (more or less but absolutely with no crime) and crackers were hackers who also did criminal acts. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Prices of commercial biodiesel
Here in Colorado, commercial B100 made from virgin soybean oil retails for $3.05 to $3.25/gallon (3.9 liter/gallon). There's rumors that a new plant using WVO will be selling it for $2.20/gal wholesale. For comparison, Diesel retails for around $2.70/gal right now, and gasoline for about $2.30. I've heard that a new station in British Columbia, Canada is selling B20 for less than Diesel, hopefully someone on the list from that area can give more info. Zeke On 2/12/06, Chandan Haldar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm looking for info on commercial biodiesel prices (B100 or blends). Info or pointers to info from any part of the world will be relevant. I live in India and to my knowledge there isn't any retail (or wholesale) sales channel for biodiesel in India at the moment, although it seems there will be a lot of action in this area very soon. Trying to get a feel for what kind of pricelines these players will be playing for and how they will compete with petrodiesel in terms of prices. (Yes, I know biodiesel isn't all just about prices, and I have scanned parts of the J2FE site, but I'd still like to understand the retail or wholesale prices that are in use elsewhere). Thanks for your help. May be we can find (or even build) a live global catalog of prices... will be a cool reference to have... Chandan ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Prices of commercial biodiesel
In Indonesia, the price of B100 costs between70 cents (wholesale) to $1.35 (retail) per litre depending on kinds ofraw material. PJW - Original Message - From: Zeke Yewdall To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 10:33 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Prices of commercial biodiesel Here in Colorado, commercial B100 made from virgin soybean oil retailsfor $3.05 to $3.25/gallon (3.9 liter/gallon). There's rumors that anew plant using WVO will be selling it for $2.20/gal wholesale. Forcomparison, Diesel retails for around $2.70/gal right now, andgasoline for about $2.30.I've heard that a new station in British Columbia, Canada is sellingB20 for less than Diesel, hopefully someone on the list from that areacan give more info.ZekeOn 2/12/06, Chandan Haldar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm looking for info on commercial biodiesel prices (B100 or blends). Info or pointers to info from any part of the world will be relevant. I live in India and to my knowledge there isn't any retail (or wholesale) sales channel for biodiesel in India at the moment, although it seems there will be a lot of action in this area very soon. Trying to get a feel for what kind of pricelines these players will be playing for and how they will compete with petrodiesel in terms of prices. (Yes, I know biodiesel isn't all just about prices, and I have scanned parts of the J2FE site, but I'd still like to understand the retail or wholesale prices that are in use elsewhere). Thanks for your help. May be we can find (or even build) a live global catalog of prices... will be a cool reference to have... Chandan ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] KOH carbonated
On Feb 11, 2006, at 9:07 PM, JJJN wrote: I just got 50 #s of KOH for next to nothing. It is in flake form but it is carbonated to some extent (unkown). I have some lab grade KOH that is near absolute also. Can anyone give me a complete procedure to make a comparison (Strength %) of one to the other? Make equal strength solutions of both (eg, 1g in 1 liter of water), and titrate one ml of oil (the same oil, of course) using each solution. Any difference in the amount of solution needed will tell you the proportional difference in KOH content. This is approximate, since the carbonate is also slightly basic. BTW, assuming you make your methoxide with the same KOH you use to titrate, it really doesn't matter, within reason, how carbonated it is. You'll just need more to achieve neutr- ality in your titration, and then you'll use that same amount when you make your methoxide. -K ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] US Gov plans massive data sweep
I'm with you on that Chris. The fact that the USA Patriot Act shreds the 4th Amendment (and threatens others like the 14th, etc.) is missed by enough citizens for it to be very dangerous to out civil liberties. However,I believe that the federal governmentdoes not have any more advantage on the Internet asit doesanywhere else and that the counterculture or "hacker" mentality (other thread, see "end of the Internet")will eventually become more visible and effective. "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_ConstitutionMike Chris lloyd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: "We have an attitude that no one will connect all those dots. But these programs are about connecting those dots -analyzing and aggregating them - in a way that we haven't thought about. What bothers me is what they call suspicious activity. I was stopped and grilled about what I was doing/going a few months back, not by the local police but a dog team with an inspector in charge. Apparently I was "Driving in a suspicious manner", it was midday and I had the wife and 2 dogs with me. Taking the wife out to a country pub for a drink at lunchtimeis now suspicious behaviour in the UK.TheWorld is slowly going mad. Chris.Wessex Ferret Club www.wessexferretclub.co.uk ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] The End of the Internet
What are people who make there own biodiesel? I would think of them along the same mentality as the original hackers. Loosely put, people who were not happy with the status quo and decided to take matters into their own hands. Jeromie Reeves Chandan Haldar wrote: Exactly the whole point of the definition in the hackers dictionary. Thanks, Jeromie. Anyway, I can't pretend to be a hacker (however honorable the true meaning of the term may be). Sorry to disappoint all hoping to meet a Matrix character in real life. Chandan Jeromie Reeves wrote: Do not forget the difference between hacker and cracker. The news would have us all think that all hackers==crackers but that simply is not true. The term Hacker first meant a person to did there own computer work (more or less but absolutely with no crime) and crackers were hackers who also did criminal acts. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] So called magnetic fuel conditioners and magnetic water treatment
Howdy Mike, Mike McGinness wrote: I studied this topic extensively for 30 years now and I am a chemical engineer. It is not all a con, though some of it has a lot of pseudo science why it works theories printed in the marketing literature as fact (which it is not). Thomas Register (in 1990) listed over 50 US manufacturers of these devices, some had been in business with over $10,000,000 in sales since the early 1970's, so there is something to them! this doesn't address whether these devices work, just that there are many who believe they do. Bink's manufacturing, and later Devillbuss was selling them (electrostatic versions) for water wash paint booths to kill collected paint overspray, and to keep it from scaling up the walls, etc. of water wash paint booths back in the late 1970's. Ingersol Rand introduced them later for cooling water scale control on air compressor water cooled aftercoolers. we were talking about fuel and energy, please one thing at a time. I do know it works in some situations, and not in others and it is not well understood yet in the scientific community what the parameters are for making it work all the time (controls). It is more of an empirical trial and error technology so far with most of the application data as to where and when it does and does not work locked up the field trial data of the manufacturers and retailers. that doesn't sound like very credible evidence to me Even hydrocarbon fuel has some polar molecules. There are also short lived free radicals in the fuel that are affected. Also look into paramagnetic (calcium, Ca+2, O2 for some interesting insights). I have seen electromagnetic units, 24 diameter and larger selling for $100,000 used in oil pipelines to stop paraffin wax (polymerization) scale from forming in the pipelines. but have you seen two pipelines side by side, one with and one without, and compared the waxing of the two? The source of power for the permanent magnetic units is not the magnet. It is the pump motor driving the pump which is pushing the fluid through the magnetic field, or the case of the newer catalytic units it is the turbulence of the fluid flowing past dissimilar metals at the surface in an alloy causing an electrochemical effect. The velocity of the fluid going through the magnetic field (or catalytic units) has a critical velocity window (turbulence and friction are involved). It is the flow of the fluid through the magnetic field and the resulting attempt at alignment by the polar molecules (or their electrons) in the fluid that causes the physical chemical changes in the fluid. Colloidal particles are disturbed, broken up and rearranged. to me it would make more sense if the polarization of the molecules caused an alignment and therefore larger particles... This is an area that should be seriously researched at the university chemical engineering level someday. I can assure you that if there was any evidence or even a rational explanation for why it worked, it would be researched. Unfortunately the Russians did most of the magnetic water and fuel treatment R D in this area when it was the Soviet Union during the cold war. they also did psychic research. Just because you look doesn't mean you can find. During that time the US chemical industry paid (via so called R D Grants) US universities to prove it did not work (on water for controlling calcium scale for instance, the tests were rigged to fail, to prove they did not work) in order to insure continuing chemical sales for water treatment chemicals of cooling towers, boilers, etc. this is beginning to sound like the mythic 200 mpg carburetor that oil companies are hiding. They did the same thing to the ozone industry until NASA (a NACE society published paper covered this about 15 years ago) proved that Ozone could eliminate calcium scaling and bacteria with out additional chemicals in cooling towers as well as allow the increase of the number of cycles of concentration. we are a long way from magnetic fuel conditioning I have personally run a controlled test using a magnetic device and witnessed the existing hard calcium pipe scale disappear and turn into sludge in a closed system in an aqueous environment. It also turns out that depending on the orientation of the magnetic field lines around the fluid flow one can encourage or discourage biological growth in the fluid and the evidence for this is? For instance if oriented properly it can inhibit bio fouling of diesel fuel when it is flowing though the device (does not work on fuel sitting in the tank). UTMB hospital demonstrated years ago the use of an electromagnetic field coil to speed the healing of broken leg bones (paramagnetic calcium!!!) in a patient who's leg had repeatedly failed to heal and was rebroken repeatedly as a result. A few weeks of the magnetic
Re: [Biofuel] KOH carbonated
make two solutions of the same concentration with the good and questionable KOH. titrate against any standard acid and compare. JJJN wrote: Hello everyone, I just got 50 #s of KOH for next to nothing. It is in flake form but it is carbonated to some extent (unkown). I have some lab grade KOH that is near absolute also. Can anyone give me a complete procedure to make a comparison (Strength %) of one to the other? I want to know because if the one is 10% weaker than the other then I should be able to increase the weaker by 10% to achieve similar results. I understand that from this point I must still tweek some one way or the other. Perhaps my thinking is flawed in assuming the relationship is proportional and I should just use better KOH? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Jim ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Bob Allen http://ozarker.org/bob Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves - Richard Feynman ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] So called magnetic fuel conditioners
Andres Secco wrote: Dear all, Magnets are being offered through spam e-mail and its has been so since early '90 ties. The professional use of magnets is very wide. My experience in industrial cooling towers, boilers and engines is very possitive and in some cases have it documented. How it works? This is the link http://www.tinet.org/~sje/mag_fuel.htm Yes indeed. Pasted from the page: / Fuel mainly consists of hydrocarbons. Groupings of hydrocarbons, when flowing through a magnetic field, change their orientations of magnetization in a direction opposite to that of the magnetic field. The molecules of hydrocarbon change their configuration. At the same time intermolecular force is considerably reduced or depressed. These mechanisms are believed to help to disperse oil particles and to become finely divided. In addition, hydrogen ions in fuel and oxygen ions in air or steam are magnetized to form magnetic domains which are believed to assist in atomizing fuel into finer particles. / / Generally a liquid or gas fuel used for an internal combustion engine is composed of a set of molecules. Each molecule includes a number of atoms, which is composed of a nucleus and electrons orbiting around their nucleus. The molecules have magnetic moments in themselves, and the rotating electrons cause magnetic phenomena. Thus, positive (+) and negative (-) electric charges exists in the fuel's molecules. For this reason, the fuel particles of the negative and positive electric charges are not split into more minute particles. Accordingly, the fuels are not actively interlocked with oxygen during combustion, thereby causing incomplete combustion. To improve the above, the fuels have been required to be decomposed and ionized. The ionization of the fuel particles is accomplished by the supply of magnetic force from a magnet. / /The resultant conditioned fuel/air mixture magnetized in opposite polarities burns more completely, producing higher engine output, better fuel economy, more power and most importantly reduces the amount of hydrocarbons, carbon monoxide and oxides of nitrogen in the exhaust. Another benefits if these devices is that magnetically charged fuel and air molecules with opposite polarities dissolve carbon build-up in carburetor jets, fuel injectors, and combustion chambers help to clean up the engine and maintain the clean condition. / Jeez, doesn't this set off any snake-oil alarm? /For this reason, the fuel particles of the negative and positive electric charges are not split into more minute particles. /and/ //Accordingly, the fuels are not actively interlocked with oxygen during combustion, thereby causing incomplete combustion./ If this is a scientific analysis some of my teachers are going to be eating their textbooks. There are many suppliers of those small devices for passenger cars and at lower prices os 20 bucks, but the real magnets cost much more than thant. Check this link http://www.magnetic-innovations.co.uk/ Yes indeed! Magnetic products for sale. *SAVE 15% ON YOUR FUEL BILLS WITH EMMISSION MASTER! Guaranteed! *They'll give me a money back guarantee that I can save 15% on my fuel bill. So my 50 MPG TDI can now get 57.5 MPG. Pity the poor VW engineers, stupid enough to spend millions refining the engine when they could get another 15% by adding magnets in the right place. What on earth could be wrong with them? I remember scientific information related and will post soon, if I can find it over the net. I'd like to see some real scientific information. Not web sites run by people selling magnets, real research. Like Bob Allen said, a peer reviewed journal would be nice. Where other scientists review claims and articles, and often times perform their own research to confirm results. Have *you* applied this and seen *any* increase in milage while changing *nothing* else? I don't mean to sound harsh, but the willingness of people to believe miracles of magnets seems overwhelming. They cure cancer, defeat gravity, energize fuel, reduce pollution, and make rainy days turn sunny. Not really, but there seem to be no end of people willing to pay good money believing such nonsense. --- David ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Prices of commercial biodiesel
dear chandan.. there pretty much nothing u can do abt BD procurement in india as of date .i have spent abt a ayr and a half and have run my car and engines on BD or blends..but thats abt it the commercial aspect of it is pretty much a dismal scene here either u have lots of land and patience and dep pockets to plant and wait for the produce...other wise it s apretty much no go. heart breaking ...but we r a country of shocking losers and we contniue to ignore the gifts of natur e and keep leading ridiculous lives. write back to me i might be able to help u in sum aspects at least atul. --- Chandan Haldar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm looking for info on commercial biodiesel prices (B100 or blends). Info or pointers to info from any part of the world will be relevant. I live in India and to my knowledge there isn't any retail (or wholesale) sales channel for biodiesel in India at the moment, although it seems there will be a lot of action in this area very soon. Trying to get a feel for what kind of pricelines these players will be playing for and how they will compete with petrodiesel in terms of prices. (Yes, I know biodiesel isn't all just about prices, and I have scanned parts of the J2FE site, but I'd still like to understand the retail or wholesale prices that are in use elsewhere). Thanks for your help. May be we can find (or even build) a live global catalog of prices... will be a cool reference to have... Chandan ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Prices of commercial biodiesel
Take a look at the latest Missouri Energy Bulletin: http://www.dnr.mo.gov/energy/transportation/EB020906.pdf Hans. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Zeke Yewdall Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 10:34 AM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Prices of commercial biodiesel Here in Colorado, commercial B100 made from virgin soybean oil retails for $3.05 to $3.25/gallon (3.9 liter/gallon). There's rumors that a new plant using WVO will be selling it for $2.20/gal wholesale. For comparison, Diesel retails for around $2.70/gal right now, and gasoline for about $2.30. I've heard that a new station in British Columbia, Canada is selling B20 for less than Diesel, hopefully someone on the list from that area can give more info. Zeke On 2/12/06, Chandan Haldar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm looking for info on commercial biodiesel prices (B100 or blends). Info or pointers to info from any part of the world will be relevant. I live in India and to my knowledge there isn't any retail (or wholesale) sales channel for biodiesel in India at the moment, although it seems there will be a lot of action in this area very soon. Trying to get a feel for what kind of pricelines these players will be playing for and how they will compete with petrodiesel in terms of prices. (Yes, I know biodiesel isn't all just about prices, and I have scanned parts of the J2FE site, but I'd still like to understand the retail or wholesale prices that are in use elsewhere). Thanks for your help. May be we can find (or even build) a live global catalog of prices... will be a cool reference to have... Chandan ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] The End of the Internet
I make my own biodiesel using the waste oil of french fries from the city. I have my own factory so I am free to use the facilities. Usual batch is 400 liters. I do not claim that my quality is premium, but have improved over the months. And is very cheap too, my cost is below 20 cents a gallon. I will start to experiment with the E85 soon for the other vehicles. Andres - Original Message - From: Jeromie Reeves [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 1:20 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The End of the Internet What are people who make there own biodiesel? I would think of them along the same mentality as the original hackers. Loosely put, people who were not happy with the status quo and decided to take matters into their own hands. Jeromie Reeves Chandan Haldar wrote: Exactly the whole point of the definition in the hackers dictionary. Thanks, Jeromie. Anyway, I can't pretend to be a hacker (however honorable the true meaning of the term may be). Sorry to disappoint all hoping to meet a Matrix character in real life. Chandan Jeromie Reeves wrote: Do not forget the difference between hacker and cracker. The news would have us all think that all hackers==crackers but that simply is not true. The term Hacker first meant a person to did there own computer work (more or less but absolutely with no crime) and crackers were hackers who also did criminal acts. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ __ Visita http://www.tutopia.com y comienza a navegar más rápido en Internet. Tutopia es Internet para todos. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] KOH carbonated
The KOH reacts with CO2 in the air producing K2CO3 + O2 + H20. The K2CO3 is still considered a strong base and may still work for suponification for your purposes, but it is not as reactive as KOH. Also only one of the two K's from the K2CO3 is a strong base so only half of it will act as a strong base. Therefore if ten percent is K2CO3 only 5% will act as a strong base like KOH. Lab supply firms like HACH and Hanna Instruments make test kits for testing for M and P alkalinity. The P alkalinity yields 100% of the OH alkalinity plus 50% of the carbonate alkalinity. I am not sure of the top of my head but I think the P alkalinity test (known as phenolphthalein) is the direct comparison you want since it measures 50% of the K2CO3 content. Therefore, it should give you the equivalent reactivity of the two batches you have of KOH. A local pet store may have the P alkalinity test in the fish section of the store for under $20.00. Mike McGinness JJJN wrote: Hello everyone, I just got 50 #s of KOH for next to nothing. It is in flake form but it is carbonated to some extent (unkown). I have some lab grade KOH that is near absolute also. Can anyone give me a complete procedure to make a comparison (Strength %) of one to the other? I want to know because if the one is 10% weaker than the other then I should be able to increase the weaker by 10% to achieve similar results. I understand that from this point I must still tweek some one way or the other. Perhaps my thinking is flawed in assuming the relationship is proportional and I should just use better KOH? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Jim ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Cross Posted: Mercury Levels Rising: Report Release
Sorry if I sound like I am knocking Greenpeace. I am not. I live in a city (Houston, Texas) where we can't even trust the local police crime lab reports! Recently investigations here have turned up falsified data that sent people to DEATH ROW based on lies from the police department lab personnel (faked DNA test results for instance along with extremely poor QA/QC lab policies and procedures) combined with perjury by the officers in the case simply to close a case or because they were sure they had the guilty person, so they made up the evidence. As Eddie Murphy says so eloquently in some of his movies (Beverly Hills Cop) TRUST ME. I see bad lab data and lab procedures regularly in environmental test labs. Therefore, I question all facts given to me as lab test data and so called FACTS and I will for the rest of my life, unless it is run by 3 independent labs with double blinds, including sample matrix tests for interferences such as sample spikes and sample dilutions to verify the accuracy of the tests with a paper trail to ASTM standards, proper sample chain of custody paper work by reputable, unbiased and knowledgeable lab personnel (this includes sampling by unbiased personnel) and with proper sample preservation between the sample point and the lab test. Even then a drug test can show positive for a non drug user if some slips a drug into their drink. In the case of the original post on this topic I have seen zero data, no numbers, so far to back up any of the original poster's claims. Furthermore there was no attempt to prove the link between the individuals with mercury in their hair who were tested and the purported source mercury emissions from burning coal. Both are large geographical issues in nature and no attempt was made to connect the two geographically. I was trying to point out that there are other huge sources of mercury in our environment including the customary practice of throwing fluorescent light bulbs (and breaking them) with huge amounts of mercury into leaky trash containers!!! And that 50% of the metal alloy in all US dental fillings is still mercury!!! perhaps the mercury in the hair samples is from leaching dental filings!! By the way has anyone bothered to check mercury emissions (air, ground water and storm water runoff) from the local grave yards to see if the dental filings there aren't making their way back into the environment!? I am not disputing the toxicity or danger of mercury!! It is real and well documented. I am just trying to widen the focus as to possible sources and to force others to question so called facts and insist on real hard data with details about the reliability of the data. And thanks for the links in your posting, they have lot of information I did not yet have in my archive on the topic of mercury toxicity. Mike McGinness Michael Redler wrote: Mike McGinness wrote: Second I would not put a lot of faith in such a sampling procedure 'we've been gathering hair samples from Greenpeace supporters across the country'. I can't speak for anyone else in the group but, in order to consider your position, I need you to back this statement with something, anything - even if it's because I don't like 'em. If your questioning the test, that's fine - just say so. However, It looks as though you feel that having Greenpeace activists in you sample can skew the results. Even if you have overzealous activists dipping their hair in mercury (assuming that even works), the data would show outliers, probably have a high standard deviation and would get the attention of critics. Since there is an abundance of data that supports how damaging mercury is to all life, research to find reliable test methods is certainly worth while. There is a growing consensus that hair has potential as a viable test material and that the biggest concern has less to do with the hair and more to do with standardization in the laboratory and whether your looking for long or short term exposure. I say this with indifference to the EPA's participation. I'm more interested in consensus in the scientific community - especially with the recent scandals that have put the EPA's reliability into question. http://www.traceelements.com/writtenresponse.html http://www.thorne.com/pdf/journal/6-5/trace_element_analysis.pdf http://www.intox.org/databank/documents/supplem/supp/ehc223.htm That said, I would agree that mercury in coal is a problem, but it is one that can be solved, by removing it before it is burned or exhausted. Mercury in coal is not the problem. Mercury in coal is one of the many reasons why coal is the problem. Collecting mercury before you burn the coal doesn't change the fact that it's there. It only changes the destination and the variables related to how one should get rid of it. Re: noise - Thank you. YES, I want to make noise about all the mercury that finds it's way into consumer, commercial, industrial and
Re: [Biofuel] Cross Posted: Mercury Levels Rising: Report Release
The mercury in vaccines and flu shots has been reduced 99.9% from what it was a few years ago (I researched this a few months ago for a recent booster shot) if you get the right supplier!! BUT, Ask to see the paper work first for the actual vial being used!! I found that out while dealing with the local County Health Clinic dispensing the Vaccines recently. Of course that begs the next question of what toxin they replaced the mercury with to keep the vaccine and flu shots sterile and presumably safe! Mike McGinness Margo wrote: Mercury seems to be in the vaccines as well, including flu shots. I don't know what the answer is, but there must be a better answer than some of the things we humans have come up with so far. I still think the natural food industry has a lot to contribute in this area. Young Living has some very interesting information in some of their latest studies. - Original Message - From: Mike McGinness [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2006 4:48 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Cross Posted: Mercury Levels Rising: Report Release In regards to mercury emissions from burning coal and my prior comments: I almost forgot the really big, big BIG issue. All silver colored dental fillings are currently still made from mercury amalgam metal alloy (50% raw mercury!!!) according to my local dentist Therefore, We are probably the single largest unregulated source of mercury emissions in the environment! Thanks to the FDA! Mike McGinness Michael Redler wrote: Nick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: Nick [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 08 Feb 2006 16:26:10 -0500 Subject: [renewable-energy] Mercury Levels Rising: Report Release Fellow enviros, For almost two years, we've been gathering hair samples from Greenpeace supporters across the country. On February 8, we released the results of our nationwide mercury study, http://www.greenpeace.org/usa/news/mercury-report and the results are alarming. Over *one in five* women of childbearing age tested above the limit the Environmental Protection Agency set as safe. The even more chilling news is that earlier this year in his State of the Union speech http://members.greenpeace.org/action/start.php?action_id=80ref_source=listsmercury to Congress, President Bush called for more energy investment in dirty fossil fuels, including coal, the largest source of mercury pollution in the country. Tell Congress that America doesn't need more coal and mercury http://members.greenpeace.org/action/start.php?action_id=80ref_source=listsmercury to be spewed into our environment, our waterways and our bodies. A healthy, sustainable energy futures begins with increased investments in clean, renewable energy, not dirty fossil fuels. Best, Nick Greenpeace www.greenpeaceusa.org [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] == THANK YOU FOR PARTICIPATING IN THE RENEWABLE ENERGY LIST. -- . Please feel free to send your input to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Join the list by sending a blank e-mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] .. To view previous messages from the list, subscribe to a daily digest of the list, or stop receiving the list by e-mail (and read it on the Web), go to http://www.yahoogroups.com/list/renewable-energy . . This e-mail discussion list is managed by the American Wind Energy Association: http://www.awea.org -- Association: http://www.awea.org -- ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
Re: [Biofuel] So called magnetic fuel conditioners and magnetic water treatment
Harbour Tools currently sells a fuel magnetic device for less than $20.00 retail for use on the fuel lines in automobiles. Home Depot was recently selling magnetic / catalytic water treatment devices for calcium scale control on home water heaters I actually saw something like this recently on HGTV, again not the most scientific source, but it was something they wrapped around the water supply line and plugged it in...they were all about it ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] So called magnetic fuel conditioners andmagnetic water treatment
bob allen wrote: Howdy Mike, Mike McGinness wrote: I studied this topic extensively for 30 years now and I am a chemical engineer. It is not all a con, though some of it has a lot of pseudo science why it works theories printed in the marketing literature as fact (which it is not). Thomas Register (in 1990) listed over 50 US manufacturers of these devices, some had been in business with over $10,000,000 in sales since the early 1970's, so there is something to them! this doesn't address whether these devices work, just that there are many who believe they do. My point is that companies that manufacture and sell only one device, if that device does not work, do not build up large companies that are 30 years old having sales in excess of 10,000 million dollars per year if that one device does not work, and certainly not over 50 companies. Bink's manufacturing, and later Devillbuss was selling them (electrostatic versions) for water wash paint booths to kill collected paint overspray, and to keep it from scaling up the walls, etc. of water wash paint booths back in the late 1970's. Ingersol Rand introduced them later for cooling water scale control on air compressor water cooled aftercoolers. we were talking about fuel and energy, please one thing at a time. From a chemical engineering standpoint there is a similarity to fuels and a similarity between the various devices and how they affect the fluids they are treating. Also, one of my points was that these devices are used successfully in many different applications. And they are ALL used to save energy! I do know it works in some situations, and not in others and it is not well understood yet in the scientific community what the parameters are for making it work all the time (controls). It is more of an empirical trial and error technology so far with most of the application data as to where and when it does and does not work locked up the field trial data of the manufacturers and retailers. that doesn't sound like very credible evidence to me It was not meant to be offered as evidence, only a summary of my 30 years of trying to figure out what is really going on with these various devices and why they work in one place and then not in another. Most of my experience with them has been with water treatment heat exchanger scale prevention to save energy These units can work in one cooling tower and not the next. Unfortunately there are many variables that are not controlled or measured in cooling water and it is one or a combination of those differnces that makes it work in one tower and then not in the next. For this reason the magnetic water treatment manufactures (the large reputable ones) usually offer money back Try it gaurantees. Even hydrocarbon fuel has some polar molecules. There are also short lived free radicals in the fuel that are affected. Also look into paramagnetic (calcium, Ca+2, O2 for some interesting insights). I have seen electromagnetic units, 24 diameter and larger selling for $100,000 used in oil pipelines to stop paraffin wax (polymerization) scale from forming in the pipelines. but have you seen two pipelines side by side, one with and one without, and compared the waxing of the two? No. Typical demos have been done by repeatedly adding and removing the magnets on the same pipeline since two pipelines side by side may be significally different in some way. The scale (or wax in this case) forms with out the magnets and disapears with the magnets reproducibly. The source of power for the permanent magnetic units is not the magnet. It is the pump motor driving the pump which is pushing the fluid through the magnetic field, or the case of the newer catalytic units it is the turbulence of the fluid flowing past dissimilar metals at the surface in an alloy causing an electrochemical effect. The velocity of the fluid going through the magnetic field (or catalytic units) has a critical velocity window (turbulence and friction are involved). It is the flow of the fluid through the magnetic field and the resulting attempt at alignment by the polar molecules (or their electrons) in the fluid that causes the physical chemical changes in the fluid. Colloidal particles are disturbed, broken up and rearranged. to me it would make more sense if the polarization of the molecules caused an alignment and therefore larger particles... Simply placing the fluid (static) in the presence of the magnet does not work. When the fluid flows through the magnetic field the electrons in molecules respond to the applied field and they try to reorient themselves. This causes collodial (small groups of molecules, more on that later) electromagnetic molecular forces to be disturbed and the collodial particles are rearanged. The rearangment apparently favors better combustion in the fuel case,
Re: [Biofuel] KOH carbonated
Titrate to what end point? Mike McGinness bob allen wrote: make two solutions of the same concentration with the good and questionable KOH. titrate against any standard acid and compare. JJJN wrote: Hello everyone, I just got 50 #s of KOH for next to nothing. It is in flake form but it is carbonated to some extent (unkown). I have some lab grade KOH that is near absolute also. Can anyone give me a complete procedure to make a comparison (Strength %) of one to the other? I want to know because if the one is 10% weaker than the other then I should be able to increase the weaker by 10% to achieve similar results. I understand that from this point I must still tweek some one way or the other. Perhaps my thinking is flawed in assuming the relationship is proportional and I should just use better KOH? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Jim ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Bob Allen http://ozarker.org/bob Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves - Richard Feynman ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Cross Posted: Mercury Levels Rising: Report Release
Hello Mike Who are you replying to, please? I don't think we know who Margo is. You seem to be doing a lot of cross-posting to multiple addresses. That's okay, just please make it clear which is which and who is who. Thankyou. Keith Addison Journey to Forever KYOTO Pref., Japan http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel list owner The mercury in vaccines and flu shots has been reduced 99.9% from what it was a few years ago (I researched this a few months ago for a recent booster shot) if you get the right supplier!! BUT, Ask to see the paper work first for the actual vial being used!! I found that out while dealing with the local County Health Clinic dispensing the Vaccines recently. Of course that begs the next question of what toxin they replaced the mercury with to keep the vaccine and flu shots sterile and presumably safe! Mike McGinness Margo wrote: Mercury seems to be in the vaccines as well, including flu shots. I don't know what the answer is, but there must be a better answer than some of the things we humans have come up with so far. I still think the natural food industry has a lot to contribute in this area. Young Living has some very interesting information in some of their latest studies. - Original Message - From: Mike McGinness [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2006 4:48 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Cross Posted: Mercury Levels Rising: Report Release In regards to mercury emissions from burning coal and my prior comments: I almost forgot the really big, big BIG issue. All silver colored dental fillings are currently still made from mercury amalgam metal alloy (50% raw mercury!!!) according to my local dentist Therefore, We are probably the single largest unregulated source of mercury emissions in the environment! Thanks to the FDA! Mike McGinness Michael Redler wrote: Nick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: Nick [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 08 Feb 2006 16:26:10 -0500 Subject: [renewable-energy] Mercury Levels Rising: Report Release Fellow enviros, For almost two years, we've been gathering hair samples from Greenpeace supporters across the country. On February 8, we released the results of our nationwide mercury study, http://www.greenpeace.org/usa/news/mercury-report and the results are alarming. Over *one in five* women of childbearing age tested above the limit the Environmental Protection Agency set as safe. The even more chilling news is that earlier this year in his State of the Union speech http://members.greenpeace.org/action/start.php?action_id=80ref_source =listsmercury to Congress, President Bush called for more energy investment in dirty fossil fuels, including coal, the largest source of mercury pollution in the country. Tell Congress that America doesn't need more coal and mercury http://members.greenpeace.org/action/start.php?action_id=80ref_source =listsmercury to be spewed into our environment, our waterways and our bodies. A healthy, sustainable energy futures begins with increased investments in clean, renewable energy, not dirty fossil fuels. Best, Nick Greenpeace www.greenpeaceusa.org [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] == THANK YOU FOR PARTICIPATING IN THE RENEWABLE ENERGY LIST. -- . Please feel free to send your input to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Join the list by sending a blank e-mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] .. To view previous messages from the list, subscribe to a daily digest of the list, or stop receiving the list by e-mail (and read it on the Web), go to http://www.yahoogroups.com/list/renewable-energy . . This e-mail discussion list is managed by the American Wind Energy Association: http://www.awea.org -- Association: http://www.awea.org -- ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists. org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives
Re: [Biofuel] Cross Posted: Mercury Levels Rising: Report Release
Hi Hakan When we are at it, why not talk about led also, considering the waste amount of led that we are polluting our food with. I bet it's worse than you think too. The Full Costs Of The Car http://www.flora.org/afo/cc1.html Dirty from cradle to grave http://www.flora.org/afo/cc1.html#II How about all this then? A Seattle Times investigation (July 3 - 4, 1997) found that, across the US, industrial wastes laden with heavy metals and other dangerous materials are being used in fertilizers and spread over farmland. The process, which is legal, saves dirty industries the high costs of disposing of hazardous wastes. Between 1990 and 1995, 600 companies from 44 different states sent 270 million pounds of toxic waste to farms and fertilizer companies across the country. What's in it? - it included 6.2 million pounds of lead compounds were spread on fields, 1.3 million pounds of chromium compounds, 233,000 pounds of cadmium compounds, 212,000 pounds of nickel compounds, 16,000 pounds of mercury compounds and 223 pounds of arsenic compounds. http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/news/special/fear_fields.html Seattle Times: Fear in the Fields by Duff Wilson (needs subscription for access) Fear in the fields Part I http://www.crcwater.org/issues/fertwaste7397.html Fear in the fields Part II http://www.crcwater.org/issues/fertwaste7497.html http://www.looksmartclassical.com/p/articles/mi_m1132/is_7_55/ai_111503533 Monthly Review: Poisoning our food - Fateful Harvest: The True Story of a Small Town, a Global Industry, and a Toxic Secret, by Duff Wilson - Book Review The recycling of hazardous industrial wastes into fertilizers introduces several dozen toxic metals and chemicals into the nation's farm, lawn and garden soils, including such well-known toxic substances as lead and mercury. Many crops and plants extract these toxic metals from the soil, increasing the chance of impacts on human health as crops and plants enter the food supply chain. This report documents the highly toxic substances found by testing fertilizers... http://pirg.org/toxics/reports/wastelands/index.html Waste Lands: The Threat Of Toxic Fertilizer Under the guise of 'recycling,' millions of pounds of toxic waste are shipped each year from polluting industries to fertilizer manufacturers and farmers, who used toxic waste laden with dioxin, lead, mercury and other hazardous chemicals as raw material for fertilizers applied to U.S. farmland... http://www.ewg.org/reports/factoryfarming/fertpress.html EWG Report || Factory Farming Then there's sewage sludge... And the brilliant official plan to recycle low-level radioactive waste into common household appliances and consumer durables (or I suppose what's left of it anyway after you've shot the rest at Iraqis). This by using l it in fuel, that then spreading it over the vegetables etc. that we eat. http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=2320s=kitman The Nation | Article | The Secret History of Lead | Jamie Lincoln Kitman On March 20, 2000 The Nation featured a special magazine-length article detailing the fascinating and clandestine history of lead. How did lead get into gasoline in the first place? And why is leaded gas still being sold in the Third World, Eastern Europe and elsewhere? Recently uncovered documents, a new skein of academic research and a careful reading of that long-ago period's historical record, as well as dozens of interviews, tell the true story of leaded gasoline. The leaded gas adventurers have profitably polluted the world on a grand scale and, in the process, have provided a model for the asbestos, tobacco, pesticide and nuclear power industries. Don't miss this shocking expose by automative journalist Jamie Kitman, who shows how car manufacturers have wildly exaggerated the benefits of leaded gasoline while knowingly downplaying its dangers. http://www.radford.edu/~wkovarik/papers/fuel.html Henry Ford, Charles Kettering and The Fuel of the Future Both a really good read. Ho-hum. Best Keith A good argument for biofuel. Both led and mercury are serious pollution problems, as a consequence of exhaust from the fuel use. Hakan At 05:50 12/02/2006, you wrote: Mike McGinness wrote: Second I would not put a lot of faith in such a sampling procedure 'we've been gathering hair samples from Greenpeace supporters across the country'. I can't speak for anyone else in the group but, in order to consider your position, I need you to back this statement with something, anything - even if it's because I don't like 'em. If your questioning the test, that's fine - just say so. However, It looks as though you feel that having Greenpeace activists in you sample can skew the results. Even if you have overzealous activists dipping their hair in mercury (assuming that even works), the data would show outliers, probably have a high standard deviation and would get the attention of critics. Since there is an abundance
Re: [Biofuel] So called magnetic fuel conditioners
Yes indeed, it sounds exactly like snake oil reading the marketing claims below. Mike McGinness David Miller wrote: Andres Secco wrote: Dear all, Magnets are being offered through spam e-mail and its has been so since early '90 ties. The professional use of magnets is very wide. My experience in industrial cooling towers, boilers and engines is very possitive and in some cases have it documented. How it works? This is the link http://www.tinet.org/~sje/mag_fuel.htm Yes indeed. Pasted from the page: / Fuel mainly consists of hydrocarbons. Groupings of hydrocarbons, when flowing through a magnetic field, change their orientations of magnetization in a direction opposite to that of the magnetic field. The molecules of hydrocarbon change their configuration. At the same time intermolecular force is considerably reduced or depressed. These mechanisms are believed to help to disperse oil particles and to become finely divided. In addition, hydrogen ions in fuel and oxygen ions in air or steam are magnetized to form magnetic domains which are believed to assist in atomizing fuel into finer particles. / / Generally a liquid or gas fuel used for an internal combustion engine is composed of a set of molecules. Each molecule includes a number of atoms, which is composed of a nucleus and electrons orbiting around their nucleus. The molecules have magnetic moments in themselves, and the rotating electrons cause magnetic phenomena. Thus, positive (+) and negative (-) electric charges exists in the fuel's molecules. For this reason, the fuel particles of the negative and positive electric charges are not split into more minute particles. Accordingly, the fuels are not actively interlocked with oxygen during combustion, thereby causing incomplete combustion. To improve the above, the fuels have been required to be decomposed and ionized. The ionization of the fuel particles is accomplished by the supply of magnetic force from a magnet. / /The resultant conditioned fuel/air mixture magnetized in opposite polarities burns more completely, producing higher engine output, better fuel economy, more power and most importantly reduces the amount of hydrocarbons, carbon monoxide and oxides of nitrogen in the exhaust. Another benefits if these devices is that magnetically charged fuel and air molecules with opposite polarities dissolve carbon build-up in carburetor jets, fuel injectors, and combustion chambers help to clean up the engine and maintain the clean condition. / Jeez, doesn't this set off any snake-oil alarm? /For this reason, the fuel particles of the negative and positive electric charges are not split into more minute particles. /and/ //Accordingly, the fuels are not actively interlocked with oxygen during combustion, thereby causing incomplete combustion./ If this is a scientific analysis some of my teachers are going to be eating their textbooks. There are many suppliers of those small devices for passenger cars and at lower prices os 20 bucks, but the real magnets cost much more than thant. Check this link http://www.magnetic-innovations.co.uk/ Yes indeed! Magnetic products for sale. *SAVE 15% ON YOUR FUEL BILLS WITH EMMISSION MASTER! Guaranteed! *They'll give me a money back guarantee that I can save 15% on my fuel bill. So my 50 MPG TDI can now get 57.5 MPG. Pity the poor VW engineers, stupid enough to spend millions refining the engine when they could get another 15% by adding magnets in the right place. What on earth could be wrong with them? I remember scientific information related and will post soon, if I can find it over the net. I'd like to see some real scientific information. Not web sites run by people selling magnets, real research. Like Bob Allen said, a peer reviewed journal would be nice. Where other scientists review claims and articles, and often times perform their own research to confirm results. Have *you* applied this and seen *any* increase in milage while changing *nothing* else? I don't mean to sound harsh, but the willingness of people to believe miracles of magnets seems overwhelming. They cure cancer, defeat gravity, energize fuel, reduce pollution, and make rainy days turn sunny. Not really, but there seem to be no end of people willing to pay good money believing such nonsense. --- David ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at
Re: [Biofuel] So called magnetic fuel conditioners and magnetic water treatment
Howdy Bob, and all LOL! Magnets again. Seems they have a certain attraction. The first or second time it happened, about four or five years ago, it quite quickly degenerated into serious flame-warfare between sceptics and true believers, no middle ground, take no captives. Until the rest of us got furious and demanded I put a stop to it, so I banned it, to loud applause. Still it comes up every now and then, like the moon. I let it go the last few times just to see what would happen, not much, but now we're having it out. Oh well. Bob's leading the sceptics and probably most of the list members are sceptics, being rigorous about it and about all things is the list's long and honorable tradition, we're curmudgeonly about it, quite right too. Wouldn't it be nice though if there were some real evidence? Are you holding your breath too? LOL! Meanwhile on the other side Mike McGinness is being the sceptic in the mercury thread, he's sceptical about hair tests and about all lab results anyway unless they're rigorous enough to be corroborated by three independent labs with double blinds and so on, which I wouldn't necessarily argue with (eg NBB members get A-OK ASTM lab test results and then it has to be recalled because it's full of glyc or something, or Industrial Biotests, eg, and more recent cases since), but on the other hand he's offering us the true gospel on magnets. Or did I get it all wrong. Snippets: My point is that companies that manufacture and sell only one device, if that device does not work, do not build up large companies that are 30 years old having sales in excess of 10,000 million dollars per year if that one device does not work, and certainly not over 50 companies. Ah, the magic of the marketplace. I wonder what P.T. Barnum would have said about it. But 10,000 million dollars??? this is beginning to sound like the mythic 200 mpg carburetor that oil companies are hiding. Yes isn't it. It's done that before and they got all mixed up, IIRC. The over-unity folks just love magnets too. Other than the magnets themselves, what have magnets and fuel economy got to do with magnets and water and controlling calcium scale on home water heaters and so on? In the last few years water has been turning out to be much stranger stuff than anyone thought, whether or not it involves magnets, but I don't think there have been any such revelations about the nature of fuel. Let's focus please on magnets and fuel, just to cut down on the variables and potential confusions, maybe it'll improve the chances of getting good answers. That was the original subject anyway, Ecoflow's Magnetic fuel saver for petrol diesel vehicles. Best Keith Addison Journey to Forever KYOTO Pref., Japan http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel list owner Howdy Mike, Mike McGinness wrote: I studied this topic extensively for 30 years now and I am a chemical engineer. It is not all a con, though some of it has a lot of pseudo science why it works theories printed in the marketing literature as fact (which it is not). Thomas Register (in 1990) listed over 50 US manufacturers of these devices, some had been in business with over $10,000,000 in sales since the early 1970's, so there is something to them! this doesn't address whether these devices work, just that there are many who believe they do. Bink's manufacturing, and later Devillbuss was selling them (electrostatic versions) for water wash paint booths to kill collected paint overspray, and to keep it from scaling up the walls, etc. of water wash paint booths back in the late 1970's. Ingersol Rand introduced them later for cooling water scale control on air compressor water cooled aftercoolers. we were talking about fuel and energy, please one thing at a time. I do know it works in some situations, and not in others and it is not well understood yet in the scientific community what the parameters are for making it work all the time (controls). It is more of an empirical trial and error technology so far with most of the application data as to where and when it does and does not work locked up the field trial data of the manufacturers and retailers. that doesn't sound like very credible evidence to me Even hydrocarbon fuel has some polar molecules. There are also short lived free radicals in the fuel that are affected. Also look into paramagnetic (calcium, Ca+2, O2 for some interesting insights). I have seen electromagnetic units, 24 diameter and larger selling for $100,000 used in oil pipelines to stop paraffin wax (polymerization) scale from forming in the pipelines. but have you seen two pipelines side by side, one with and one without, and compared the waxing of the two? The source of power for the permanent magnetic units is not the magnet. It is the pump motor driving the pump which is pushing the fluid through the magnetic field, or the case of the newer
