Re: [Biofuel] Washing Biodiesel
Hi Terry, Looks like the reaction2RCOONa + Ca (Acetate)2-- (RCOO)2Ca + 2Na(Acetate) to me.(soluble soap)+ (hard water)--(insol. scum)+ (soluble salt) Bill has achieved a way of removing fatty acids dissolved in biodiesel. Congrats to Bill. Sabash! Terry DeSimone [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Bill, Thought I'd read about everything there was on biodiesel,but don't recall anything on water hardness. Could you direct me to a link or post so I can learn more about this? By "hardness" I'm assuming you mean calcium? TerryBill Clark [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sorry for the unrelated text at the bottom of my last e-mail regardingAcusorb beads. Meant to cut that.I have been experiencing wash problems (bubble wash using Simon's superbubbler), specifically failures in the wash test. At first I suspectedtitration problems as well as process problems. Then I saw the message inthe archives regarding soft water. The municipal water supply in the City ofEufaula is very soft (near 0 grains of hardness). It also has a pH of 8.5.Treating the wash water with vinegar resulted in some reduction of emulsionformation but not complete elimination of the problem.After consulting the City's water works, I began using a water hardnessincreaser made for use in swimming pools. The results were dramatic;complete elimination of emulsions. I now use .5 oz. of hardness increaser in50 gallons of wash water (200 gal. biodiesel) along with 1 cup of vinegar.This increases hardness by 60 ppm. The manufacturer of the hardnessincreaser informed me that I may see some scale formation with the additionof vinegar but I will cross that bridge when I reach it.As I stated in my previous post, I use Acusorb beads as the final step in mywashing process. It does a fine job of drying and buffering the biodiesel. Inow use 1 wash before filtering the biodiesel through the beads. A shaketest of the final product using distilled water results in very fastseparation with clear biodiesel on top and pH nuetral water on the bottom.I am neither recommending nor condemning the use of Acusorb beads. I havefound a way to make them useful to me. My use of the beads is more a matterof speed of process. If time were not a factor, the cost of the beads mightprohibit my use of them.If there are factors I have neglected please let me know. Even though I havegood results in my final shake test, my obsessive-compulsive nature keeps mefrom feeling cofident about anything.Good biodieseling to everyone.Bill Clark___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the full Biofuel list archives (46,000 messages):http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/Search the Biofuels-biz list archives:http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuels-biz/___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the full Biofuel list archives (46,000 messages):http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/Search the Biofuels-biz list archives:http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuels-biz/ Yahoo! Mail Mobile Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone.___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the full Biofuel list archives (46,000 messages): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Search the Biofuels-biz list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuels-biz/
Re: [Biofuel] Washing Biodiesel
Bill: The folks in your town should be thankful. After their shower they still have a thin layer of natural (and yet clean) oils on their skin. Others, like me, need to soften our water to accomplish that or live with dry cracking skin, especially in the winter. Ray On Wed, 01 Jun 2005 17:11:25 -0400, Bill Clark [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Terry, Here is one from the archives: Message #45295. There is a post from Keith that refers to problems with soft water, nothing detailed, but I can't seem to find it right now. Soft water problems make sense to me. People who don't live here often complain that they can't get the soap off in the shower. Your pretty slick when you step out of the shower here. When washing clothes we only use half the recommended rate of detergent. I should have been more detailed about my conversation with the water works people. They gave me a target of 60-80 ppm of hardness. This will provide enough hardness without affecting the ability of the water to dissolve soaps. Best wishes, Bill Clark - Original Message - From: Terry DeSimone To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, June 01, 2005 2:27 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Washing Biodiesel Hello Bill, Thought I'd read about everything there was on biodiesel,but don't recall anything on water hardness. Could you direct me to a link or post so I can learn more about this? By hardness I'm assuming you mean calcium? Terry Bill Clark [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sorry for the unrelated text at the bottom of my last e-mail regarding Acusorb beads. Meant to cut that. I have been experiencing wash problems (bubble wash using Simon's super bubbler), specifically failures in the wash test. At first I suspected titration problems as well as process problems. Then I saw the message in the archives regarding soft water. The municipal water supply in the City of Eufaula is very soft (near 0 grains of hardness). It also has a pH of 8.5. Treating the wash water with vinegar resulted in some reduction of emulsion formation but not complete elimination of the problem. After consulting the City's water works, I began using a water hardness increaser made for use in swimming pools. The results were dramatic; complete elimination of emulsions. I now use .5 oz. of hardness increaser in 50 gallons of wash wa! ter (200 gal. biodiesel) along with 1 cup of vinegar. This increases hardness by 60 ppm. The manufacturer of the hardness increaser informed me that I may see some scale formation with the addition of vinegar but I will cross that bridge when I reach it. As I stated in my previous post, I use Acusorb beads as the final step in my washing process. It does a fine job of drying and buffering the biodiesel. I now use 1 wash before filtering the biodiesel through the beads. A shake test of the final product using distilled water results in very fast separation with clear biodiesel on top and pH nuetral water on the bottom. I am neither recommending nor condemning the use of Acusorb beads. I have found a way to make them useful to me. My use of the beads is more a matter of speed of process. If time were not a factor, the cost of the beads might prohibit my use of them. If there are factors I have neglected please let me know. Even though! I have good results in my final shake test, my obsessive-compulsive nature keeps me from feeling cofident about anything. Good biodieseling to everyone. Bill Clark ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the full Biofuel list archives (46,000 messages): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Search the Biofuels-biz list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuels-biz/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the full Biofuel list archives (46,000 messages): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Search the Biofuels-biz list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuels-biz/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the full Biofuel list archives (46,000 messages): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Search the Biofuels-biz list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuels-biz/ -- Ray or Shiraz Ings [EMAIL PROTECTED] 1-613-253-1311 Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2
Re: [Biofuel] Washing Biodiesel
Hi Ray, We are thankful for the quality and plentifulness of our water supply. The people I was referring to are visitors or newcomers. Established citizens are well aware of the benefits of soft water on skin. Thanks, Bill Clark - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2005 12:04 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Washing Biodiesel Bill: The folks in your town should be thankful. After their shower they still have a thin layer of natural (and yet clean) oils on their skin. Others, like me, need to soften our water to accomplish that or live with dry cracking skin, especially in the winter. Ray On Wed, 01 Jun 2005 17:11:25 -0400, Bill Clark [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Terry, Here is one from the archives: Message #45295. There is a post from Keith that refers to problems with soft water, nothing detailed, but I can't seem to find it right now. Soft water problems make sense to me. People who don't live here often complain that they can't get the soap off in the shower. Your pretty slick when you step out of the shower here. When washing clothes we only use half the recommended rate of detergent. I should have been more detailed about my conversation with the water works people. They gave me a target of 60-80 ppm of hardness. This will provide enough hardness without affecting the ability of the water to dissolve soaps. Best wishes, Bill Clark - Original Message - From: Terry DeSimone To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, June 01, 2005 2:27 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Washing Biodiesel Hello Bill, Thought I'd read about everything there was on biodiesel,but don't recall anything on water hardness. Could you direct me to a link or post so I can learn more about this? By hardness I'm assuming you mean calcium? Terry Bill Clark [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sorry for the unrelated text at the bottom of my last e-mail regarding Acusorb beads. Meant to cut that. I have been experiencing wash problems (bubble wash using Simon's super bubbler), specifically failures in the wash test. At first I suspected titration problems as well as process problems. Then I saw the message in the archives regarding soft water. The municipal water supply in the City of Eufaula is very soft (near 0 grains of hardness). It also has a pH of 8.5. Treating the wash water with vinegar resulted in some reduction of emulsion formation but not complete elimination of the problem. After consulting the City's water works, I began using a water hardness increaser made for use in swimming pools. The results were dramatic; complete elimination of emulsions. I now use .5 oz. of hardness increaser in 50 gallons of wash wa! ter (200 gal. biodiesel) along with 1 cup of vinegar. This increases hardness by 60 ppm. The manufacturer of the hardness increaser informed me that I may see some scale formation with the addition of vinegar but I will cross that bridge when I reach it. As I stated in my previous post, I use Acusorb beads as the final step in my washing process. It does a fine job of drying and buffering the biodiesel. I now use 1 wash before filtering the biodiesel through the beads. A shake test of the final product using distilled water results in very fast separation with clear biodiesel on top and pH nuetral water on the bottom. I am neither recommending nor condemning the use of Acusorb beads. I have found a way to make them useful to me. My use of the beads is more a matter of speed of process. If time were not a factor, the cost of the beads might prohibit my use of them. If there are factors I have neglected please let me know. Even though! I have good results in my final shake test, my obsessive-compulsive nature keeps me from feeling cofident about anything. Good biodieseling to everyone. Bill Clark ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the full Biofuel list archives (46,000 messages): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Search the Biofuels-biz list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuels-biz/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the full Biofuel list archives (46,000 messages): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Search the Biofuels-biz list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuels-biz
RE: [biofuel] washing biodiesel in large processor
Hi Todd, This mixing method you describe looks much easier than bubble washing or mist washing. What I intend to do is to use the pump from my reactor vessel to mix the biodiesel and water. Presumably this is ok? You emphasise that it is important that the reaction be fully complete. From what I have been reading on Journeytoforever it seems that the best way to ensure that is to use the correct amount of lye, i.e. 3.5 or 4 grams plus titration plus plenty of excess methanol. I intend doing my first large batch soon (50 litres). It titrates at 2.4 so I am going to use say 6.4 grams/litre of lye plus 25% methanol to ensure a complete reaction. I have read the journeytoforever advice on the different amounts of methanol to use for different oils but as I am going to recover the methanol I don't think it matters if I use too much. I presume most of the excess methanol will end up in the glycerine and not the biodiesel. I would appreciate your advice on this. Is there anything radically wrong with what I have proposed above? Regards, Dermot -Original Message- From: Appal Energy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 09 July 2004 00:36 To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] washing biodiesel in large processor Ardis, You will find, after enough experimentation and out of pocket costs, that mechanical agitation in a wash tank is the least expensive, consumes the least energy, requires the least amount of time and leaves you with a finished product as good as or better than mist- or bubble-washing. Plain, pure and simple, mist- and bubble-washing have become institutionalized amongst home-brewers primarily due to the frequency of incomplete reactions that lend to washing problems. In short, they are both methods of treating incomplete reactions with little kid's gloves in the hopes that any resulting emulsion won't be too bad or too noticeable. The fact of the matter is that no wash method should be used on any batch unless it is known for certain that the reaction has completed. Unfortunately, many people fail to guarantee this for themselves, opting to just go ahead and wash it gently. The method of guarantee is extremely simple. Put one ounce of what is believed to be finished fuel in a baby food jar (or similar) with an equal amount of water. Seal the jar and shake violently for 15 seconds. Completed fuel should begin to separate instantly and there should be two distinct layers in less than ~30 seconds. If it takes longer than this or if an emulsion layer forms any thicker than the normal paper thin interface layer between oil and water, you've got a batch that has not completed. The degree of incompletion can vary. If the fuel/water separate slowly but are by-and-large complete in a matter of 1-2 minutes and there is no emulsion layer other than the interface, there's no great need to retreat the reaction if the fuel is intended for personal use. If you have an emulsion beyond the thin interface layer the batch needs to be retreated. No amount of light mist- or bubble-washing can change this - unless, of course, you don't care what grade of fuel you run through your engine. The wash test and mechanical washing (motor, prop and shaft) work well no matter what method you use - acid/base or straight base, single or double stage. Some concern has been expressed in the past over the use of air to dry fuel, the concern being fuel oxidation. It's beyond me why those who express such concern (and rightfully so) don't say word one about bubble washing doing the exact same thing. Others express concern with pump- or prop-washed fuel not clearing as quickly as mist- or bubble-washed. There's sound reason for this, all things being equal. Pumps and propellers have the ability of better mixing the fuel and water (atomizing it), bringing both in more frequent contact with each other. This means greater surface to surface contact between water molecules and all suspended/dissolved impurities. Fifteen minutes with a 1/2 hp motor and 4 - 6 prop in a 200 gallon wash tank or bigger will achieve the same thing or more as an all-day-affair with a mist- or bubble-washer. This allows for hours of washing time to be converted to settling time, in turn hastening the entire wash process. Anyway, when all is said and done and no matter what wash method you choose, you'll best serve your own interests if you make sure that your reaction is complete before attempting any type of wash. All bubble- and mist-washing tend to do is offer brewers the opportunity to wash an incompletely reacted batch with one eye closed and sometimes the other eye squinted. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: ardis streeter [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2004 7:29 PM Subject: [biofuel] washing biodiesel in large processor Hi,all ' I was wondering if anyone could tell me which way might be best for washing large batches of biodiesel??My
Re: [biofuel] washing biodiesel in large processor
PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2004 7:29 PM Subject: [biofuel] washing biodiesel in large processor Hi,all ' I was wondering if anyone could tell me which way might be best for washing large batches of biodiesel??My processor is capable of processing up to 200 gallons at a time.I am still building the processor so I was looking for some imfo.from experenced biodiesel producers.So far I have the stainless pick up tank done,the methanol,lye mix tank done,the processing tank with heat exchangers and mixer done.Currently I am building the wash tank and was wondering if bubble washing or top mist washing would be better for a tank that is 46 inches in dia. and aprox. 90 inches high.The tank will hold aprox. 480 gallons.Also was wondering if the tank needs an agitoror or if the wash tank should be set up with a pump to stir the fuel,water wash?? Also would like to know if the wash water should be pre-heated because well water is around 55 degrees,would this cause a problem with proper washing.Thanks for any help|| Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] washing biodiesel in large processor
Ardis, You will find, after enough experimentation and out of pocket costs, that mechanical agitation in a wash tank is the least expensive, consumes the least energy, requires the least amount of time and leaves you with a finished product as good as or better than mist- or bubble-washing. Plain, pure and simple, mist- and bubble-washing have become institutionalized amongst home-brewers primarily due to the frequency of incomplete reactions that lend to washing problems. In short, they are both methods of treating incomplete reactions with little kid's gloves in the hopes that any resulting emulsion won't be too bad or too noticeable. The fact of the matter is that no wash method should be used on any batch unless it is known for certain that the reaction has completed. Unfortunately, many people fail to guarantee this for themselves, opting to just go ahead and wash it gently. The method of guarantee is extremely simple. Put one ounce of what is believed to be finished fuel in a baby food jar (or similar) with an equal amount of water. Seal the jar and shake violently for 15 seconds. Completed fuel should begin to separate instantly and there should be two distinct layers in less than ~30 seconds. If it takes longer than this or if an emulsion layer forms any thicker than the normal paper thin interface layer between oil and water, you've got a batch that has not completed. The degree of incompletion can vary. If the fuel/water separate slowly but are by-and-large complete in a matter of 1-2 minutes and there is no emulsion layer other than the interface, there's no great need to retreat the reaction if the fuel is intended for personal use. If you have an emulsion beyond the thin interface layer the batch needs to be retreated. No amount of light mist- or bubble-washing can change this - unless, of course, you don't care what grade of fuel you run through your engine. The wash test and mechanical washing (motor, prop and shaft) work well no matter what method you use - acid/base or straight base, single or double stage. Some concern has been expressed in the past over the use of air to dry fuel, the concern being fuel oxidation. It's beyond me why those who express such concern (and rightfully so) don't say word one about bubble washing doing the exact same thing. Others express concern with pump- or prop-washed fuel not clearing as quickly as mist- or bubble-washed. There's sound reason for this, all things being equal. Pumps and propellers have the ability of better mixing the fuel and water (atomizing it), bringing both in more frequent contact with each other. This means greater surface to surface contact between water molecules and all suspended/dissolved impurities. Fifteen minutes with a 1/2 hp motor and 4 - 6 prop in a 200 gallon wash tank or bigger will achieve the same thing or more as an all-day-affair with a mist- or bubble-washer. This allows for hours of washing time to be converted to settling time, in turn hastening the entire wash process. Anyway, when all is said and done and no matter what wash method you choose, you'll best serve your own interests if you make sure that your reaction is complete before attempting any type of wash. All bubble- and mist-washing tend to do is offer brewers the opportunity to wash an incompletely reacted batch with one eye closed and sometimes the other eye squinted. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: ardis streeter [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2004 7:29 PM Subject: [biofuel] washing biodiesel in large processor Hi,all ' I was wondering if anyone could tell me which way might be best for washing large batches of biodiesel??My processor is capable of processing up to 200 gallons at a time.I am still building the processor so I was looking for some imfo.from experenced biodiesel producers.So far I have the stainless pick up tank done,the methanol,lye mix tank done,the processing tank with heat exchangers and mixer done.Currently I am building the wash tank and was wondering if bubble washing or top mist washing would be better for a tank that is 46 inches in dia. and aprox. 90 inches high.The tank will hold aprox. 480 gallons.Also was wondering if the tank needs an agitoror or if the wash tank should be set up with a pump to stir the fuel,water wash?? Also would like to know if the wash water should be pre-heated because well water is around 55 degrees,would this cause a problem with proper washing.Thanks for any help|| __ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links
[biofuel] washing biodiesel in large processor
Hi,all ' I was wondering if anyone could tell me which way might be best for washing large batches of biodiesel??My processor is capable of processing up to 200 gallons at a time.I am still building the processor so I was looking for some imfo.from experenced biodiesel producers.So far I have the stainless pick up tank done,the methanol,lye mix tank done,the processing tank with heat exchangers and mixer done.Currently I am building the wash tank and was wondering if bubble washing or top mist washing would be better for a tank that is 46 inches in dia. and aprox. 90 inches high.The tank will hold aprox. 480 gallons.Also was wondering if the tank needs an agitoror or if the wash tank should be set up with a pump to stir the fuel,water wash?? Also would like to know if the wash water should be pre-heated because well water is around 55 degrees,would this cause a problem with proper washing.Thanks for any help|| __ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Washing Biodiesel Turnaround Time?
I have Josh Tickell's book From the fryer to the fuel tank and it explains that washing the biodiesel adds several days to the process. What is several days? Is two days enough? three? Perhaps other variables delay the washing, but what is a good rule-of-thumb from our groups members? Thank you, Kevin Shea [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Washing biodiesel
x-charset ISO-8859-1I am a newcomer to the discussion board, so please bear with me. Is washing the biodiesel a necessary step? Reading Joshua Tickell's book, he claims that he does not wash the biodiesel and has not had any problems running it. Then when I looked at the Journey to Forever website, there is a lot of emphasis on washing it. Which would be the best way? Thanks. Jonathan. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ /x-charset
RE: [biofuel] Washing biodiesel
check the pH. if its not washed any aluminium parts of the engine will corrode. -Original Message- From: j_schearer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, 5 February 2004 2:42 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] Washing biodiesel I am a newcomer to the discussion board, so please bear with me. Is washing the biodiesel a necessary step? Reading Joshua Tickell's book, he claims that he does not wash the biodiesel and has not had any problems running it. Then when I looked at the Journey to Forever website, there is a lot of emphasis on washing it. Which would be the best way? Thanks. Jonathan. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Washing biodiesel
x-charset ISO-8859-1Jonathan, To wash or not to wash? Take your pick. It's your poison. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: j_schearer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 11:41 AM Subject: [biofuel] Washing biodiesel I am a newcomer to the discussion board, so please bear with me. Is washing the biodiesel a necessary step? Reading Joshua Tickell's book, he claims that he does not wash the biodiesel and has not had any problems running it. Then when I looked at the Journey to Forever website, there is a lot of emphasis on washing it. Which would be the best way? Thanks. Jonathan. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ /x-charset
Re: [biofuel] Washing biodiesel
Hello Jonathan, welcome I am a newcomer to the discussion board, so please bear with me. Is washing the biodiesel a necessary step? Reading Joshua Tickell's book, he claims that he does not wash the biodiesel and has not had any problems running it. Then when I looked at the Journey to Forever website, there is a lot of emphasis on washing it. Which would be the best way? Thanks. Jonathan. This was posted to one of the local forums: 2 Nov 2003 05:34:47 -0800 (PST) come on , you guys- not only is Tickell's book almost entirely inaccurate for homebrew (and I believe for other non-DIY info as well), but someone just blew themselves up following the sort of practices it advocates (or burned his shed down in an explosion and got burned in the process using the sort of equipment recommended in the book) . Plus Tickell has been told for years that a bunch of his info is incorrect but has kept putting out editions of the book that `change... nothing... except for the cover photo. It might be OK as a book to give to your mystified grandma to explain why you're so obsessed and to argue how biodiesel might be ecologically friendly, but it's absolutely not OK to recommend it as a way to learn how to make the stuff. everything in the DIY homebrew side of it is just about all wrong, outdated, or dangerous, and instead, the best source for information about how to make biodiesel is online: http://www.journeytoforever.orghttp://www.journeytoforever.org http://biodiesel.infopop.cchttp://biodiesel.infopop.cc Mark Mark (Girl Mark) is a hardened biodieseler, teacher, advocate, campaigner. It's a bit fierce maybe, but I don't disagree. She says a lot more about that book here: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/29919/ I don't disagree with that either. Here's more: I have to say something doesn't sit right with his letter or organization (or, as many people have pointed out, his publication of unsafe biodiesel processor plans in a widely distributed book. Ah well. Judge for yourself. -Aaron There's lots more. Don't take any notice of that book, it'll only lead you astray. Follow the washing information at Journey to Forever. http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_bubblewash.html Bubble washing: Journey to Forever Best Keith Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Washing Biodiesel.
I have solved the wash problems that plagued my BD production. Previous attempts at washing using the bubble wash technique proved disasterous with froth and emulsion formation. Usually half the BD ended up overflowing the container. Tried using a gentler wash setup on small scale allowing water droplets to fall through the BD. This was more successful , but there was still a problem with the water/oil globules persisting and slowing the process. First wash with 10% vinegar helped but the flow rate had to be watched. Decided that if I was going to use vinegar the cheapest way would be to prepare it from glacial acetic acid (conc acetic acid). Vinegar is 10% acetic acid. Acetic acid and BD mix well so I mixed the glacial acetic acid into the BD prior to washing. The result was better than I could have hoped for. No froth or emulsion, wash rate up to maximum flow. Retried bubble wash technique with equally successful results. Have droped level of glacial added from initial 8mls/l of BD (equivalent to ammount used in 10% vinegar wash) to 4ml and then 2ml. Results still great, anticipate level could be dropped even further, will investigate. Don't know the theory behind it. Thought the vinegar wash was neutralising residual NaOH in BD but all my recent batches have tested pH 6 and titrated ever so slightly acid prior to washing. Have added about 15L of washed , dried and filtered BD to tank of Toyota so far with no problems. More to come. Regards Paul. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Washing Biodiesel.
Hi Paul Good news, very interesting. I have solved the wash problems that plagued my BD production. Previous attempts at washing using the bubble wash technique proved disasterous with froth and emulsion formation. Usually half the BD ended up overflowing the container. Tried using a gentler wash setup on small scale allowing water droplets to fall through the BD. This was more successful , but there was still a problem with the water/oil globules persisting and slowing the process. First wash with 10% vinegar helped but the flow rate had to be watched. Decided that if I was going to use vinegar the cheapest way would be to prepare it from glacial acetic acid (conc acetic acid). Vinegar is 10% acetic acid. Acetic acid and BD mix well so I mixed the glacial acetic acid into the BD prior to washing. The result was better than I could have hoped for. No froth or emulsion, wash rate up to maximum flow. Retried bubble wash technique with equally successful results. Have droped level of glacial added from initial 8mls/l of BD (equivalent to ammount used in 10% vinegar wash) to 4ml and then 2ml. Results still great, anticipate level could be dropped even further, will investigate. Don't know the theory behind it. Thought the vinegar wash was neutralising residual NaOH in BD but all my recent batches have tested pH 6 and titrated ever so slightly acid prior to washing. Have added about 15L of washed , dried and filtered BD to tank of Toyota so far with no problems. More to come. Yes please. Paul, you're using Aleks's two-stage acid-base process, aren't you? Regards Paul. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
