Re: [Biofuel] Major Problems Of Surviving Peak Oil
At 9,300 feet elevation, I have little to worry about with regards to rising sea levels. But, the climate is already getting pretty wacky. I was talking to someone who's lived there for over 30 years, and he's seen the weather noticeably chance since then. The treeline is moving both up from the bottom due to hotter summers and drought, and down from the top due to colder winters, less snow to protect the trees, and wind. Permanent snowfields that used to be 200 foot thick along the divide around the turn of the century are almost gone now. We just got 22 inches of snow at my house wednesday night, which is normal for around 1900 or so, but for the last 80 years or so, it's been quite a bit less snow than the previous few hundred years. Alot of our infrastructure was built in the period of less snow, so it doesn't cope with the snow that well. If we actually get a normal winter, it's going to be hard. But if we continue in the direction of the last 80 years, water, both for cities, and for agriculture, is going to get pretty scarce here in Colorado. On 10/25/06, Bob Molloy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Terry,The projected rise in sea levels is about five metres (justover 16 feet) in the next 100 years. That gives us plenty of time to pick upour beach umbrellas and move back a few feet. Over 90 per cent of our population lives with a half-hour drive of the sea so the issue is one ofgreat interest here. In my case it will bring the nearest tidal water(currently 300 yards away) to within a hundred yards of my front lawn and maybe take out a few of my grape vines.It's a worry I tell you.Regards,Bob.- Original Message -From: Terry Dyck [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Thursday, October 26, 2006 8:48 AMSubject: Re: [Biofuel] Major Problems Of Surviving Peak Oil Hi Bob, New Zealand must be the perfect place to live.You have won awards for environmental projects and you are planting seeds to grow diesel trees. Congratulations.Those beaches you mentioned could be in trouble, though, when the sea rises. Terry Dyck From: Bob Molloy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Major Problems Of Surviving Peak Oil Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 11:48:43 +1300 Jeez Mike, No, definitely not New Zealand, we've limited our population to four million and we only have an area just a little larger than the British Isles. Besides we've got an anti-nuclear policy and live under an ozone hole for much of the summer. Anyway we've got too muchwater and forest and mountains and stuff, the South Pole is just over the horizon, we've got all these beaches that nobody uses, deer and horses and pig that run wild, eels in every stream, fish coming out of our ears and sheep everywhere. You'd hate it. Trust me, Bob. - Original Message - From: MK DuPree To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 1:07 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Major Problems Of Surviving Peak Oil See Stephen Leeb's The Coming Economic Collapse: How You Can ThriveWhen Oil Costs $200 a Barrel.Leeb would have us buying stocks in various companies because that's his business.The points he makes about why the price of oil must rise to levels far beyond we know today are my reasonfor directing our attention to the book.It really does come down to amassive population growing exponentially and an economic model promoted by the USA. Bottom line is, we're screwed, at least as far as the world as we've known it run on oil is concerned.Maybe all the JTF List could put our money, talents, and lives together on some remote island or somewhere in New Zealand and start something that might survive through the comingchaos and become a beacon of hope to the world.Use the JTF Credo as our basis for community life.I'm serious!What, aint gonna happen???Ah well, to unquote something the bard didn't say, all's not well that doesn't end well.Ah well... Mike DuPree ___Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Major Problems Of Surviving Peak Oil
Hi Zeke...with a population
that is exploding and with it the demand for limited resources doing same, how
can anyone not expect that we will not only continue in the direction of the
last 80 years, but accelerate in that direction? This thread has included
the statement "everything changes." It occurred to me, however, that
indeed it does change, but never disappears. Is there solace in this
thought? Obviously not for anyone who hasidentified totally with
"What a Wonderful World" this is, er, was. Ah well, just in case anyone is
still hanging on too dearly, you might check outhttp://bioresonant.com/news.htm.
This author says the earth is preparing to explode. Now won't that be
fun?!!! Mike DuPree
- Original Message -
From:
Zeke Yewdall
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Friday, October 27, 2006 2:26
PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Major Problems Of
Surviving Peak Oil
At 9,300 feet elevation, I have little to worry about with
regards to rising sea levels. But, the climate is already
getting pretty wacky. I was talking to someone who's lived there for
over 30 years, and he's seen the weather noticeably chance since
then. The treeline is moving both up from the bottom due to hotter
summers and drought, and down from the top due to colder winters, less snow to
protect the trees, and wind. Permanent snowfields that used to be
200 foot thick along the divide around the turn of the century are almost gone
now. We just got 22 inches of snow at my house wednesday night,
which is "normal" for around 1900 or so, but for the last 80 years or so, it's
been quite a bit less snow than the previous few hundred years.
Alot of our infrastructure was built in the period of less snow, so it doesn't
cope with the snow that well. If we actually get a "normal"
winter, it's going to be hard. But if we continue in the direction of
the last 80 years, water, both for cities, and for agriculture, is going to
get pretty scarce here in Colorado.
On 10/25/06, Bob
Molloy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
Hi
Terry,The
projected rise in sea levels is about five metres (justover 16 feet) in
the next 100 years. That gives us plenty of time to pick upour beach
umbrellas and move back a few feet. Over 90 per cent of our population
lives with a half-hour drive of the sea so the issue is one ofgreat
interest here. In my case it will bring the nearest tidal
water(currently 300 yards away) to within a hundred yards of my front
lawn and maybe take out a few of my grape vines.It's a worry I tell
you.Regards,Bob.- Original Message -From: "Terry
Dyck" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent:
Thursday, October 26, 2006 8:48 AMSubject: Re: [Biofuel] Major Problems
Of Surviving Peak Oil Hi Bob, New Zealand
must be the perfect place to live.You have won awards
for environmental projects and you are planting seeds to grow diesel
trees. Congratulations.Those beaches you mentioned could
be in trouble, though, when the sea rises. Terry
Dyck From: "Bob Molloy" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Major Problems Of Surviving Peak Oil
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 11:48:43 +1300 Jeez
Mike,
No,
definitely not New Zealand, we've limited our population to four
million and we only have an area just a little larger than the
British Isles. Besides we've got an anti-nuclear policy and live
under an ozone hole for much of the summer. Anyway we've got too
muchwater and forest and mountains and stuff, the South Pole
is just over the horizon, we've got all these beaches that
nobody uses, deer and horses and pig that run wild, eels in
every stream, fish coming out of our ears and sheep everywhere.
You'd hate it. Trust me, Bob.
- Original Message - From:
MK DuPree To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 1:07 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Major Problems Of Surviving Peak Oil
See Stephen Leeb's The
Coming Economic Collapse: How You Can ThriveWhen Oil Costs
$200 a Barrel.Leeb would have us buying stocks in
various companies because that's his business.The
points he makes about why the price of oil must rise to levels
far beyond we know today are my reasonfor directing our
attention to the book.It really does come down to
amassive population growing exponentially and an economic
model promoted by the USA. Bottom line is, we're
screwed, at least as far as the world as we've known it run on
oil is concerned.Maybe all the JTF List could put our
money, talents, and lives together on some remote island or somewhere in
New Zealand and start somethin
Re: [Biofuel] Major Problems Of Surviving Peak Oil
I have not read this article, but I was wondering if Yellowstone may be affected by globall warming? It would be catastrophic for the world if a few degrees warmer environment made Yellowstone more active. regards Doug (from the down side of the planet) On Saturday 28 October 2006 6:36, MK DuPree wrote: Hi Zeke...with a population that is exploding and with it the demand for limited resources doing same, how can anyone not expect that we will not only continue in the direction of the last 80 years, but accelerate in that direction? This thread has included the statement everything changes. It occurred to me, however, that indeed it does change, but never disappears. Is there solace in this thought? Obviously not for anyone who has identified totally with What a Wonderful World this is, er, was. Ah well, just in case anyone is still hanging on too dearly, you might check out http://bioresonant.com/news.htm. This author says the earth is preparing to explode. Now won't that be fun?!!! Mike DuPree - Original Message - From: Zeke Yewdall To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, October 27, 2006 2:26 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Major Problems Of Surviving Peak Oil At 9,300 feet elevation, I have little to worry about with regards to rising sea levels.But, the climate is already getting pretty wacky. I was talking to someone who's lived there for over 30 years, and he's seen the weather noticeably chance since then. The treeline is moving both up from the bottom due to hotter summers and drought, and down from the top due to colder winters, less snow to protect the trees, and wind. Permanent snowfields that used to be 200 foot thick along the divide around the turn of the century are almost gone now. We just got 22 inches of snow at my house wednesday night, which is normal for around 1900 or so, but for the last 80 years or so, it's been quite a bit less snow than the previous few hundred years. Alot of our infrastructure was built in the period of less snow, so it doesn't cope with the snow that well. If we actually get a normal winter, it's going to be hard. But if we continue in the direction of the last 80 years, water, both for cities, and for agriculture, is going to get pretty scarce here in Colorado. On 10/25/06, Bob Molloy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Terry, The projected rise in sea levels is about five metres (just over 16 feet) in the next 100 years. That gives us plenty of time to pick up our beach umbrellas and move back a few feet. Over 90 per cent of our population lives with a half-hour drive of the sea so the issue is one of great interest here. In my case it will bring the nearest tidal water (currently 300 yards away) to within a hundred yards of my front lawn and maybe take out a few of my grape vines. It's a worry I tell you. Regards, Bob. - Original Message - From: Terry Dyck [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2006 8:48 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Major Problems Of Surviving Peak Oil Hi Bob, New Zealand must be the perfect place to live. You have won awards for environmental projects and you are planting seeds to grow diesel trees. Congratulations. Those beaches you mentioned could be in trouble, though, when the sea rises. Terry Dyck From: Bob Molloy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Major Problems Of Surviving Peak Oil Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 11:48:43 +1300 Jeez Mike, No, definitely not New Zealand, we've limited our population to four million and we only have an area just a little larger than the British Isles. Besides we've got an anti-nuclear policy and live under an ozone hole for much of the summer. Anyway we've got too much water and forest and mountains and stuff, the South Pole is just over the horizon, we've got all these beaches that nobody uses, deer and horses and pig that run wild, eels in every stream, fish coming out of our ears and sheep everywhere. You'd hate it. Trust me, Bob. - Original Message - From: MK DuPree To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 1:07 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Major Problems Of Surviving Peak Oil See Stephen Leeb's The Coming Economic Collapse: How You Can Thrive When Oil Costs $200 a Barrel. Leeb would have us buying stocks in various companies because that's his business. The points he makes about why the price of oil must rise to levels far beyond we know today are my reason for directing our
Re: [Biofuel] Major Problems Of Surviving Peak Oil
The Discovery Channel has a show on this Super Volcano. http://dsc.discovery.com/convergence/supervolcano/supervolcano.html - Original Message - From: Doug Foskey [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, October 28, 2006 7:35 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Major Problems Of Surviving Peak Oil I have not read this article, but I was wondering if Yellowstone may be affected by globall warming? It would be catastrophic for the world if a few degrees warmer environment made Yellowstone more active. regards Doug (from the down side of the planet) On Saturday 28 October 2006 6:36, MK DuPree wrote: Hi Zeke...with a population that is exploding and with it the demand for limited resources doing same, how can anyone not expect that we will not only continue in the direction of the last 80 years, but accelerate in that direction? This thread has included the statement everything changes. It occurred to me, however, that indeed it does change, but never disappears. Is there solace in this thought? Obviously not for anyone who has identified totally with What a Wonderful World this is, er, was. Ah well, just in case anyone is still hanging on too dearly, you might check out http://bioresonant.com/news.htm. This author says the earth is preparing to explode. Now won't that be fun?!!! Mike DuPree - Original Message - From: Zeke Yewdall To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, October 27, 2006 2:26 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Major Problems Of Surviving Peak Oil At 9,300 feet elevation, I have little to worry about with regards to rising sea levels.But, the climate is already getting pretty wacky. I was talking to someone who's lived there for over 30 years, and he's seen the weather noticeably chance since then. The treeline is moving both up from the bottom due to hotter summers and drought, and down from the top due to colder winters, less snow to protect the trees, and wind. Permanent snowfields that used to be 200 foot thick along the divide around the turn of the century are almost gone now. We just got 22 inches of snow at my house wednesday night, which is normal for around 1900 or so, but for the last 80 years or so, it's been quite a bit less snow than the previous few hundred years. Alot of our infrastructure was built in the period of less snow, so it doesn't cope with the snow that well. If we actually get a normal winter, it's going to be hard. But if we continue in the direction of the last 80 years, water, both for cities, and for agriculture, is going to get pretty scarce here in Colorado. On 10/25/06, Bob Molloy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Terry, The projected rise in sea levels is about five metres (just over 16 feet) in the next 100 years. That gives us plenty of time to pick up our beach umbrellas and move back a few feet. Over 90 per cent of our population lives with a half-hour drive of the sea so the issue is one of great interest here. In my case it will bring the nearest tidal water (currently 300 yards away) to within a hundred yards of my front lawn and maybe take out a few of my grape vines. It's a worry I tell you. Regards, Bob. - Original Message - From: Terry Dyck [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2006 8:48 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Major Problems Of Surviving Peak Oil Hi Bob, New Zealand must be the perfect place to live. You have won awards for environmental projects and you are planting seeds to grow diesel trees. Congratulations. Those beaches you mentioned could be in trouble, though, when the sea rises. Terry Dyck From: Bob Molloy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Major Problems Of Surviving Peak Oil Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 11:48:43 +1300 Jeez Mike, No, definitely not New Zealand, we've limited our population to four million and we only have an area just a little larger than the British Isles. Besides we've got an anti-nuclear policy and live under an ozone hole for much of the summer. Anyway we've got too much water and forest and mountains and stuff, the South Pole is just over the horizon, we've got all these beaches that nobody uses, deer and horses and pig that run wild, eels in every stream, fish coming out of our ears and sheep everywhere. You'd hate it. Trust me, Bob. - Original Message - From: MK DuPree To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 1:07 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Major Problems Of Surviving Peak Oil See Stephen
Re: [Biofuel] Major Problems Of Surviving Peak Oil
Hi Bob, New Zealand must be the perfect place to live. You have won awards for environmental projects and you are planting seeds to grow diesel trees. Congratulations. Those beaches you mentioned could be in trouble, though, when the sea rises. Terry Dyck From: Bob Molloy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Major Problems Of Surviving Peak Oil Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 11:48:43 +1300 Jeez Mike, No, definitely not New Zealand, we've limited our population to four million and we only have an area just a little larger than the British Isles. Besides we've got an anti-nuclear policy and live under an ozone hole for much of the summer. Anyway we've got too much water and forest and mountains and stuff, the South Pole is just over the horizon, we've got all these beaches that nobody uses, deer and horses and pig that run wild, eels in every stream, fish coming out of our ears and sheep everywhere. You'd hate it. Trust me, Bob. - Original Message - From: MK DuPree To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 1:07 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Major Problems Of Surviving Peak Oil See Stephen Leeb's The Coming Economic Collapse: How You Can Thrive When Oil Costs $200 a Barrel. Leeb would have us buying stocks in various companies because that's his business. The points he makes about why the price of oil must rise to levels far beyond we know today are my reason for directing our attention to the book. It really does come down to a massive population growing exponentially and an economic model promoted by the USA. Bottom line is, we're screwed, at least as far as the world as we've known it run on oil is concerned. Maybe all the JTF List could put our money, talents, and lives together on some remote island or somewhere in New Zealand and start something that might survive through the coming chaos and become a beacon of hope to the world. Use the JTF Credo as our basis for community life. I'm serious! What, aint gonna happen??? Ah well, to unquote something the bard didn't say, all's not well that doesn't end well. Ah well... Mike DuPree ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ _ Buy, Load, Play. The new Sympatico / MSN Music Store works seamlessly with Windows Media Player. Just Click PLAY. http://musicstore.sympatico.msn.ca/content/viewer.aspx?cid=SMS_Sept192006 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Major Problems Of Surviving Peak Oil
Hi Terry, The projected rise in sea levels is about five metres (just over 16 feet) in the next 100 years. That gives us plenty of time to pick up our beach umbrellas and move back a few feet. Over 90 per cent of our population lives with a half-hour drive of the sea so the issue is one of great interest here. In my case it will bring the nearest tidal water (currently 300 yards away) to within a hundred yards of my front lawn and maybe take out a few of my grape vines. It's a worry I tell you. Regards, Bob. - Original Message - From: Terry Dyck [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2006 8:48 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Major Problems Of Surviving Peak Oil Hi Bob, New Zealand must be the perfect place to live. You have won awards for environmental projects and you are planting seeds to grow diesel trees. Congratulations. Those beaches you mentioned could be in trouble, though, when the sea rises. Terry Dyck From: Bob Molloy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Major Problems Of Surviving Peak Oil Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 11:48:43 +1300 Jeez Mike, No, definitely not New Zealand, we've limited our population to four million and we only have an area just a little larger than the British Isles. Besides we've got an anti-nuclear policy and live under an ozone hole for much of the summer. Anyway we've got too much water and forest and mountains and stuff, the South Pole is just over the horizon, we've got all these beaches that nobody uses, deer and horses and pig that run wild, eels in every stream, fish coming out of our ears and sheep everywhere. You'd hate it. Trust me, Bob. - Original Message - From: MK DuPree To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 1:07 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Major Problems Of Surviving Peak Oil See Stephen Leeb's The Coming Economic Collapse: How You Can Thrive When Oil Costs $200 a Barrel. Leeb would have us buying stocks in various companies because that's his business. The points he makes about why the price of oil must rise to levels far beyond we know today are my reason for directing our attention to the book. It really does come down to a massive population growing exponentially and an economic model promoted by the USA. Bottom line is, we're screwed, at least as far as the world as we've known it run on oil is concerned. Maybe all the JTF List could put our money, talents, and lives together on some remote island or somewhere in New Zealand and start something that might survive through the coming chaos and become a beacon of hope to the world. Use the JTF Credo as our basis for community life. I'm serious! What, aint gonna happen??? Ah well, to unquote something the bard didn't say, all's not well that doesn't end well. Ah well... Mike DuPree ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Major Problems Of Surviving Peak Oil
LOL...you bum...just gotta gloat, don't ya? I would too. Congrats. Mike DuPree - Original Message - From: Bob Molloy To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 5:48 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Major Problems Of Surviving Peak Oil Jeez Mike, No, definitely notNew Zealand, we've limited our population to four million and we only have an area just a little larger than the British Isles. Besides we've got an anti-nuclear policy and live under an ozone hole for much of the summer. Anyway we've got too much water and forest and mountains and stuff, the South Pole is just over the horizon, we've got all these beaches that nobody uses, deer and horses and pig that run wild, eels in every stream, fish coming out of our ears and sheep everywhere. You'd hate it. Trust me, Bob. - Original Message - From: MK DuPree To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 1:07 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Major Problems Of Surviving Peak Oil See Stephen Leeb's The Coming Economic Collapse: How You Can Thrive When Oil Costs $200 a Barrel. Leeb would have us buying stocks in various companies because that's his business. The points he makes about why the price of oil must rise to levels far beyond we know today are my reason for directing our attention to the book. It really does come down to a massive population growing exponentially and an economic model promoted by the USA. Bottom line is, we're screwed, at least as far as the world as we've known it run on oil is concerned. Maybe all the JTF List could put our money, talents, and lives together on some remote island or somewhere in New Zealand and start something that might survive through the coming chaos and become a beacon of hope to the world. Use the JTF Credo as our basis for community life. I'm serious! What, aint gonna happen??? Ah well, to unquote something the bard didn't say, all's not well that doesn't end well. Ah well... Mike DuPree ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Major Problems Of Surviving Peak Oil
Jeez Mike, No, definitely notNew Zealand, we've limited our population to four million and we only have an area just a little larger than the British Isles. Besides we've got an anti-nuclear policy and live under an ozone hole for much of the summer. Anyway we've got too much water and forest and mountains and stuff, the South Pole is just over the horizon, we've got all these beaches that nobody uses, deer and horses and pig that run wild, eels in every stream, fish coming out of our ears and sheep everywhere. You'd hate it. Trust me, Bob. - Original Message - From: MK DuPree To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 1:07 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Major Problems Of Surviving Peak Oil See Stephen Leeb's The Coming Economic Collapse: How You Can Thrive When Oil Costs $200 a Barrel. Leeb would have us buying stocks in various companies because that's his business. The points he makes about why the price of oil must rise to levels far beyond we know today are my reason for directing our attention to the book. It really does come down to a massive population growing exponentially and an economic model promoted by the USA. Bottom line is, we're screwed, at least as far as the world as we've known it run on oil is concerned. Maybe all the JTF List could put our money, talents, and lives together on some remote island or somewhere in New Zealand and start something that might survive through the coming chaos and become a beacon of hope to the world. Use the JTF Credo as our basis for community life. I'm serious! What, aint gonna happen??? Ah well, to unquote something the bard didn't say, all's not well that doesn't end well. Ah well... Mike DuPree ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Major Problems Of Surviving Peak Oil
See Stephen Leeb's The Coming Economic Collapse: How You Can Thrive When Oil Costs $200 a Barrel. Leeb would have us buying stocks in various companies because that's his business. The points he makes about why the price of oil must rise to levels far beyond we know today are my reason for directing our attention to the book. It really does come down to a massive population growing exponentially and an economic model promoted by the USA. Bottom line is, we're screwed, at least as far as the world as we've known it run on oil is concerned. Maybe all the JTF List could put our money, talents, and lives together on some remote island or somewhere in New Zealand and start something that might survive through the coming chaos and become a beacon of hope to the world. Use the JTF Credo as our basis for community life. I'm serious! What, aint gonna happen??? Ah well, to unquote something the bard didn't say, all's not well that doesn't end well. Ah well... Mike DuPree - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2006 9:59 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Major Problems Of Surviving Peak Oil Thompson, Mark L. (PNB RD) wrote: What is all this "Peak Oil" end of the world garbage. Oil is a finite resource. All that remains to debate is when we will "run out" (and what the definition of that is). I think things get ugly once core demand exceeds production on a world scale. Personally, I expect that within my lifetime. I think affordability will be a factor long before oil is exhausted in a technical sense. I trust you have read Deffeyes, Hubbert, ASPO, Simmons, etc. and have evidence that debunks them. We have many decades if not 100+ years of conventional oil left. Emmm, actually North America has about 5 years of conventional oil left, if it were not for imports. (6 if you include ANWR.) Does your forecast allow for increasing and accelerating rates of consumption year over year?Or does it assume flat consumption into the future, like the optimistic government forecasts? We have huge amounts of Tar Sands (1.7 Trillion barrels) to exploit. Actually, I doubt we can afford to do that. The groundwater and natural gas consumed in that processing will run out first. If we use oil from the oil sands to make more oil from the oil sands, my understanding is that this is a losing proposition on an EROEI basis based on the exising process and facilities (from oil sand to refined consumer product). We have potential 1000's of years worth of Methane-Hydrates available. For which we currently do not have a viable technology in place as yet to harvest them. The implications of releasing that much methane into the environment (leakage, losses, accidents), or even the carbon dioxide resulting from using it do not bode well for habitability of the planet for humans in the long term. Perhaps you plan to use this methane to support the production of oil from the oil sands. Estimated to be greater than twice the world total of oil. We have almost limitless Nuclear energy potential through the use of Breeder, Light water and Heavy water reactors. And no solutions in place on how to deal with the spent fuel on a permanent basis, well, other than putting them into weapons, be they nuclear weapons, depleted uranium in artillery shells, or dirty bombs. Even France is having second thoughts about the breeder cycle. Not to mention the other - Wind - Water - Solar - BioFuels - etc. Now we're getting to sustainable solutions. All of which are up and coming. The higher energy cost go up the more pressure there will be on "Alternate" sources. Do you think we have enough time to implement these solutions on a mass scale before oil and natural gas shortages, even intermittent ones, are disrupting the technological infrastructure that underpins western "civilization"? Alberta has just put a road-block in front of further wind development in the province. The U.S. federal government is actively working against the Cape wind project. However, billions are being spent on green-washing coal. As said before "Everything changes." All we need to do is plan for then and adapt. There are limits to adaptation. Extinction is also an option. If the average temperature on the planet's surface rises dramatically, we won't last long. Humans don't survive long when exposed to temperatures above 40 degrees C for extended periods. Go for it Anti-Carbon Crusaders, I see it coming. If we render the planet's surface uninhabitable for humans, where do you suggest we go? Space travel for 8 billion humans plus some life support strikes me as a rather energy intensive proposition. Darryl Mark -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Mullan Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2006 12:14 PM To: biofuel@sustaina
Re: [Biofuel] Major Problems Of Surviving Peak Oil
They used to do without any real significant oil back when? Say 1800s? The only difference was the size of the population. That will be the cause of chaos since oil bred the population. I expect I only have 20 years left and with my luck, it will happen before than. Sorry. Just my 2cents rambling. John On 10/19/2006, MK DuPree [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No doubt about it, the world runs on oil. No oil, no world, at least as we have known it. The realization of this when gas prices spiked a year snip Yeah...whatever. Everything changes. And, I guess I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. Maybe I'll know how to use a knife and bow and arrow by then--or maybe not. Mike DuPree snip ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Major Problems Of Surviving Peak Oil
Hi John...great to hear a relatively unheard JTF voice, even if only "2cents rambling." Yeah, the size of the population. Maybe there's still enough room for everyone, but not resources, especially as the population continues growing exponentially. Hard to think too much about this, however. Hard to think too much beyond the very moment, not in terms of "gotta get mine now," but in imagining whatever the future may hold. No doubt there are trends, but trends get reversed. Something happens, just one thing somewhere, and "everything changes." So I'm finding for me personally that my only true "salvation" is right here, right now, and to try andbe decent about it. Toss in those 2cents anytime Mike DuPree - Original Message - From: "John Mullan" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2006 2:13 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Major Problems Of Surviving Peak Oil They used to do without any real significant oil back when? Say 1800s? The only difference was the size of the population. That will be the cause of chaos since oil bred the population. I expect I only have 20 years left and with my luck, it will happen before than. Sorry. Just my 2cents rambling. John On 10/19/2006, "MK DuPree" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No doubt about it, the world runs on oil. No oil, no world, at least as we have known it. The realization of this when gas prices spiked a year snip Yeah...whatever. "Everything changes." And, I guess I'll "cross that bridge when I come to it." Maybe I'll know how to use a knife and bow and arrow by then--or maybe not. Mike DuPree snip ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Major Problems Of Surviving Peak Oil
What is all this Peak Oil end of the world garbage. We have many decades if not 100+ years of conventional oil left. We have huge amounts of Tar Sands (1.7 Trillion barrels) to exploit. We have potential 1000's of years worth of Methane-Hydrates available. Estimated to be greater than twice the world total of oil. We have almost limitless Nuclear energy potential through the use of Breeder, Light water and Heavy water reactors. Not to mention the other - Wind - Water - Solar - BioFuels - etc. All of which are up and coming. The higher energy cost go up the more pressure there will be on Alternate sources. As said before Everything changes. All we need to do is plan for then and adapt. Go for it Anti-Carbon Crusaders, I see it coming. Mark -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Mullan Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2006 12:14 PM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Major Problems Of Surviving Peak Oil They used to do without any real significant oil back when? Say 1800s? The only difference was the size of the population. That will be the cause of chaos since oil bred the population. I expect I only have 20 years left and with my luck, it will happen before than. Sorry. Just my 2cents rambling. John On 10/19/2006, MK DuPree [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No doubt about it, the world runs on oil. No oil, no world, at least as we have known it. The realization of this when gas prices spiked a year snip Yeah...whatever. Everything changes. And, I guess I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. Maybe I'll know how to use a knife and bow and arrow by then--or maybe not. Mike DuPree snip ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.or g Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Major Problems Of Surviving Peak Oil
Thompson, Mark L. (PNB RD) wrote: What is all this Peak Oil end of the world garbage. Oil is a finite resource. All that remains to debate is when we will run out (and what the definition of that is). I think things get ugly once core demand exceeds production on a world scale. Personally, I expect that within my lifetime. I think affordability will be a factor long before oil is exhausted in a technical sense. I trust you have read Deffeyes, Hubbert, ASPO, Simmons, etc. and have evidence that debunks them. We have many decades if not 100+ years of conventional oil left. Emmm, actually North America has about 5 years of conventional oil left, if it were not for imports. (6 if you include ANWR.) Does your forecast allow for increasing and accelerating rates of consumption year over year? Or does it assume flat consumption into the future, like the optimistic government forecasts? We have huge amounts of Tar Sands (1.7 Trillion barrels) to exploit. Actually, I doubt we can afford to do that. The groundwater and natural gas consumed in that processing will run out first. If we use oil from the oil sands to make more oil from the oil sands, my understanding is that this is a losing proposition on an EROEI basis based on the exising process and facilities (from oil sand to refined consumer product). We have potential 1000's of years worth of Methane-Hydrates available. For which we currently do not have a viable technology in place as yet to harvest them. The implications of releasing that much methane into the environment (leakage, losses, accidents), or even the carbon dioxide resulting from using it do not bode well for habitability of the planet for humans in the long term. Perhaps you plan to use this methane to support the production of oil from the oil sands. Estimated to be greater than twice the world total of oil. We have almost limitless Nuclear energy potential through the use of Breeder, Light water and Heavy water reactors. And no solutions in place on how to deal with the spent fuel on a permanent basis, well, other than putting them into weapons, be they nuclear weapons, depleted uranium in artillery shells, or dirty bombs. Even France is having second thoughts about the breeder cycle. Not to mention the other - Wind - Water - Solar - BioFuels - etc. Now we're getting to sustainable solutions. All of which are up and coming. The higher energy cost go up the more pressure there will be on Alternate sources. Do you think we have enough time to implement these solutions on a mass scale before oil and natural gas shortages, even intermittent ones, are disrupting the technological infrastructure that underpins western civilization? Alberta has just put a road-block in front of further wind development in the province. The U.S. federal government is actively working against the Cape wind project. However, billions are being spent on green-washing coal. As said before Everything changes. All we need to do is plan for then and adapt. There are limits to adaptation. Extinction is also an option. If the average temperature on the planet's surface rises dramatically, we won't last long. Humans don't survive long when exposed to temperatures above 40 degrees C for extended periods. Go for it Anti-Carbon Crusaders, I see it coming. If we render the planet's surface uninhabitable for humans, where do you suggest we go? Space travel for 8 billion humans plus some life support strikes me as a rather energy intensive proposition. Darryl Mark -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Mullan Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2006 12:14 PM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Major Problems Of Surviving Peak Oil They used to do without any real significant oil back when? Say 1800s? The only difference was the size of the population. That will be the cause of chaos since oil bred the population. I expect I only have 20 years left and with my luck, it will happen before than. Sorry. Just my 2cents rambling. John On 10/19/2006, MK DuPree [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No doubt about it, the world runs on oil. No oil, no world, at least as we have known it. The realization of this when gas prices spiked a year snip Yeah...whatever. Everything changes. And, I guess I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. Maybe I'll know how to use a knife and bow and arrow by then--or maybe not. Mike DuPree snip ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Major Problems Of Surviving Peak Oil
Jason, I think if things play out as you visualize things that may be true. I don't know if that will truly be the reality of it. I have all the survival skills needed if I had to go into the elements as they are today. I was fortunate to be raised by those that still honed and practiced those skills. The thing that scares me about it is if the weather goes to extremes and the food cannot be raised well in a cycle and the creatures are few and out of balance with the cycle I would have no more chance than a city fellow dropped into the Canadian wilds without any preparations in winter. From what I have read of the predictions of how it will be things will be closer to the prophecies in the book of Revelation. - Original Message - From: Jason Katie [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2006 4:17 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Major Problems Of Surviving Peak Oil the large cities will die in fires, riots, and street-by-street fighting, but the small towns with only a few hundred farmer friends and neighbors will get by, just for the simple fact that food wont be too big of a problem, and people will learn to make-do, like so many times before. practical carpentry will even be worth the work again, considering the only metals we could use would be within the temp range of methane (copper, brass, tin, lead, aluminum, etc). civilization WILL ceace, for a time, but humans are like roaches- we can survive just about anything. Jason ICQ#: 154998177 MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: MK DuPree To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2006 12:30 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Major Problems Of Surviving Peak Oil When we realize the everlasting truth of 'everything changes,' and find our composure in it, we find ourselves in nirvana. -- Shunryu Suzuki No doubt about it, the world runs on oil. No oil, no world, at least as we have known it. The realization of this when gas prices spiked a year ago or so is what brought me to the List, thinking maybe biodiesel might provide an answer. Then I realized I didn't want to fight my neighbor for the last drop of WVO. Now I walk more and use my bicycle. But the world around me and my own too still runs on oil, so for now there is a kind of unsettled peace, which is really nothing new. Nonetheless I recognize my individual efforts are feeble in the face of the inevitable--a world run on oil run out of oil. Whatever it will look like, it will look like, he said blithely from within the comfort of his fossil fuel-based economy. I guess I'm not totally convinced the savage world of Norman will exist. One reason, so much of the savagery we see today seems to me to stem from a widening of that old battle of class warfare. But what happens when most of the folks around truly have only each other to depend upon to survive? Can someone who lived during the Depression tell me? My mom said folks were much more inclined to help each other. Maybe she's so old she remembers only what she wants to remember, which is certainly her prerogative, having lived longer than I can probably only hope I will. Am I being too naive, too simplistic? Too freakin afraid of what the heck Norman is saying? Well, now that my present is totally dispersed and I'm looking into the black hole of a world gone more mad than it already is, I have to bring myself back to my present. No doubt my acts today are the basis for what happens tomorrow. So, how shall I act? That question used to focus on more of a moral answer, of how I treated myself and my neighbor. Now the question and answer have changed, evolved into something far bigger than any one of us individually is truly capable of wrapping our minds around or doing anything about. So, how shall I act? Norman would have me learn how to use a knife and bow and arrow, I guess for eating rats, or squirrels, which, by the way gawd knows there are way too many of those buggers running around. My neighbors don't like hearing me talk about skinning and eating them. I try and point out how many there are and how destructive they are and that lone falcon flying around can only eat so much, but the economy is still fueled too much by oil, and I hear I'm an animal lover. Whatever. Yeah...whatever. Everything changes. And, I guess I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. Maybe I'll know how to use a knife and bow and arrow by then--or maybe not. Mike DuPree - Original Message - From: AltEnergyNetwork [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 11:05 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Major Problems Of Surviving Peak Oil Major Problems Of Surviving Peak Oil Interesting and scary scenario, regards tallex Major Problems Of Surviving Peak Oil By Norman 18 October
