[talk-au] Tagging beach driving info

2013-10-28 Thread James Livingston
Hi, Recently I was 4wding with some people and collected some info to add to OSM. I think that the access tracks to the beach and realted campsites should be tagged with: highway=track surface=sand maxspeed=NN tracktype=grade7 4wd_only=yes access=permit How should I tag the maxspeed

Re: [talk-au] Coastline and beaches

2013-01-08 Thread James Livingston
On 8 January 2013 20:32, Brett Russell brussell...@live.com.au wrote: Assuming that I am reading OSM instructions correct the beach is suppose to only extend to the high water mark so the coastline and beach should have a one to one relationship on the water side. But then I have been wrong

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] Contact And Remap Campaign

2012-02-13 Thread James Livingston
On 14 February 2012 03:17, Simon Poole si...@poole.ch wrote: I believe there is some contention as to what in 1.a current licence terms refers to, but it is at least consistent with the document to assume that it refers to the licences listed in 3., so both CC-by-SA 2.0 and ODbL + DbCL1.0 ,

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] The Copyright of Split Ways

2012-01-29 Thread James Livingston
On 29 January 2012 09:03, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: I'm sure it is going to be tackled one way or the other but it really isn't the big issue some people seem to make of it. Splitting ways is a common thing but it is only relevant for the license change if an agreer splits a

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] ODbL and publishing source data

2011-11-29 Thread James Livingston
On 30 November 2011 01:03, Jonathan Harley j...@spiffymap.net wrote: On 28/11/11 23:59, James Livingston wrote: Depending on the rendering, it may not be the same. The placements of name text can depend on other data so it's not on top of something else, or POIs can be hidden

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] ODbL and publishing source data

2011-11-28 Thread James Livingston
On 28 November 2011 21:55, 80n 80n...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 11:25 AM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.orgwrote: I could render a map from OSM and then render something else on top of it, say a commercially acquired set of hotel POIs. That would clearly be a Produced Work; I

Re: [talk-au] ODbL data.gov.au permission granted

2011-09-25 Thread James Livingston
On 24 September 2011 00:10, Grant Slater openstreet...@firefishy.comwrote: * Queensland national parks, state forests and conservation areas That dataset was actually done as two imports by two different people. The first was being done by me, from about 18 month to 15 months ago - manually

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Refusing CT but declaring contributions as PD

2011-08-25 Thread James Livingston
On 25 August 2011 02:00, andrzej zaborowski balr...@gmail.com wrote: This is a different topic but last I heard the CT don't assure everything you upload is ODbL compatible, but rather than your contribution is compatible with all the licenses that may be chosen by OSMF -- and that everything

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] using osm data and other sources in a project

2011-08-18 Thread James Livingston
On 19 August 2011 01:34, Robert Whittaker (OSM) robert.whittaker+...@gmail.com wrote: * I think it's an open question as to whether it's permissible to create a single layer of tiles from the two databases by overlaying features from both. It could be argued that this is a collective work,

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] I want my access back

2011-08-14 Thread James Livingston
On 14 August 2011 22:39, Henk Hoff o...@toffehoff.nl wrote: Op 12-08-11 23:34, Nic Roets schreef: On Fri, Aug 12, 2011 at 10:47 PM, Michael Kugelmannmichaelk_...@gmx.de wrote: While the first SOTM at Manchester (July 2007) there was a pannel about the license. BTW: So, did the panel

Re: [talk-au] Going separate ways

2011-07-11 Thread James Livingston
On 11/07/2011, at 8:47 PM, John Smith wrote: Then why was there such a big fuss made over Haiti edits should be PD so that the UN could mix the data with other datasets... Because they were mixing the datasets. If you do something like render tiles within the .au boundaries from one database,

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] data derived from UK Ordnace Survey

2011-07-07 Thread James Livingston
On 16 June 2011 21:08, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: On 06/16/11 12:31, Dermot McNally wrote: Not quite, based on what Richard is saying. It would allow future relicensing but only if the new licence remained compatible with the terms seen to be required by the OS (currently

Re: [talk-au] Active Australian OSM contributors in light of CT/license changes

2011-07-07 Thread James Livingston
On 6 July 2011 21:29, Andrew Harvey andrew.harv...@gmail.com wrote: and also people who ticked the CTs who have used CC-BY/CC-BY-SA sources in the past who may want to keep this data and continue using these sources in the future. Indeed. Number 9 on the list is

Re: [talk-au] Active Australian OSM contributors in light of CT/license changes

2011-07-07 Thread James Livingston
On 8 July 2011 13:26, SteveC st...@asklater.com wrote: The vast majority of people are happy with where we are at From what I've read on ML posts, and from what was reported about the last SotM meeting (I wasn't there), the vast majority of people don't care and would be happy with the status

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Exception in Open Data License/Community Guidelines for temporary file

2011-06-29 Thread James Livingston
On 29/06/2011, at 4:25 PM, Frederik Ramm wrote: On 06/29/11 05:21, James Livingston wrote: I don't think it would be treated differently, because I believe that an in-memory data structure would still be a database (in the ODbL and database right sense of database). I don't see how the storage

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Exception in Open Data License/Community Guidelines for temporary file

2011-06-28 Thread James Livingston
On 23 June 2011 03:29, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: In today's operating systems, whether something is in a file or in memory is a boundary that might easily get blurred. It would be kind of strange if one algorithm that chooses to build a giant data structure in memory (using,

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Phase 4 and what it means

2011-06-05 Thread James Livingston
On 5 June 2011 22:35, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: John Smith wrote: He is yet to back up his claims about people using the data I don't think it makes a difference. If I have one set of data with a questionable copyright situation and no street names, and another set of data

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Phase 4 and what it means

2011-06-05 Thread James Livingston
On 5 June 2011 10:09, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: I know for a fact that among the current disagreeing mappers there are some who intend to stay with OSM and who are just holding out until the last minute; As far as I can tell, doing that is the only way to say I don't like the

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Questions about CTs 1.2.4

2011-04-19 Thread James Livingston
On 14/04/2011, at 6:57 PM, Robert Whittaker (OSM) wrote: This method seems a much more satisfactory way of doing things to me -- assuming it could work legally (IANAL). We would still have the flexibility to re-license if we needed to without individual mappers being able to hold their data

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Questions about CTs 1.2.4

2011-04-19 Thread James Livingston
On 14/04/2011, at 8:06 AM, Francis Davey wrote: On 13 April 2011 22:24, James Livingston li...@sunsetutopia.com wrote: * If so, how do we know what data must be removed in a switch to ODbL? That clause doesn't appear to put any obligation on you to remove data. All it requires of you

[OSM-legal-talk] Acceptable licences and splitting account edits

2011-04-13 Thread James Livingston
Hi all, With the upcoming requirement to accept/decline the contributor terms, I thought it was about time to figure out whether and how I can agree to them. I've had a look around but can't see any FAQs for the contributor terms, just for the ODbL part. I'm sure I can't be the only person in

Re: [talk-au] Fwd: [OSM-dev] To OSM editor authors ...

2011-04-06 Thread James Livingston
On 06/04/2011, at 7:31 PM, John Smith wrote: ... the License Working Group intends implementing Phase 3 of the license change implementation plan [1]. This involves blocking edits with HTTP Forbidden messages until the individual contributor has Accepted/Declined the new terms by logging in

Re: [talk-au] Fwd: [OpenStreetMap] OpenStreetMap is changing the licence

2011-04-06 Thread James Livingston
On 7 April 2011 09:42, David Murn da...@incanberra.com.au wrote: On Thu, 2011-04-07 at 09:17 +1000, Michael Hampson wrote: This came through over night. Is it a standard mailer going out to all? I received the same, so presumably yes. More importantly is it a official OSMF or

Re: [talk-au] Fwd: [Tagging] tagging world heritage (UNESCO) and other protected areas/features

2011-01-12 Thread James Livingston
On 12/01/2011, at 2:48 AM, John Smith wrote: Martin, for your information there was a bit of work done on this sort of thing in the past for Aussie parks covered by this, based on data from http://data.australia.gov.au I think. I uploaded the dataset I think you're referring to, after

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] CTs and the 1 April deadline

2011-01-04 Thread James Livingston
on my account into those I can agree for and those I can't? and what licenses are the CTs compatible with? ? 3) On the above, how do I split the edits on my account? -- James Livingston ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Garmin Maps / Produced Works

2010-09-07 Thread James Livingston
On 04/09/2010, at 10:30 PM, Rob Myers wrote: If it absolutely has to be one thing or the other I'd say it is a Produced Work. Does it have to be though? I can't see anything in the ODbL that says Derived Database and Produced Work are mutually exclusive. A produced work is: a work (such as

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Licence Implementation plan - declines or non-responses

2010-08-30 Thread James Livingston
On 30/08/2010, at 10:03 AM, Eugene Alvin Villar wrote: If the majority of the community (including OSMF and the sysads who run the servers) agrees with the license change, why should the onus of forking be on the license-change agreers? If this is indeed the case, then the ones who should

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] ODbL vs CC-by-SA pros and cons

2010-08-30 Thread James Livingston
On 30/08/2010, at 3:04 PM, jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote: Perfect. So the new license is being shown as possibly non effective against such an attack. I've asked about this case before on the list, and gotten no real response about it. Consider for example if someone in the US[0]

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] Community vs. Licensing

2010-08-30 Thread James Livingston
On 30/08/2010, at 3:24 PM, jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote: I think that was already sorted out under the issue of wikipedia point importing, the OSM data is under the jurisdiction of England and has to obey english copyright law. no? No, people are bound by the copyright law where they

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] To calm some waters - about Section 3

2010-08-30 Thread James Livingston
On 27/08/2010, at 1:36 AM, Anthony wrote: Or you could just assign the task of deciding what it means to someone. Whether or not a future license is share alike shall be determined by a vote of the OSMF board. Sure, except I don't know that will really help. If people want certainty that all

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] To calm some waters - about Section 3

2010-08-26 Thread James Livingston
On 26/08/2010, at 2:12 AM, Simon Ward wrote: I don’t know if that’s how legal types read it, but couldn’t it also be taken transitively as follows: 1. CTs allow licensing under ODbL 1.0; 2. ODbL 1.0 allows licensing under a compatible licence, or later version of the ODbL; 3. By (1)

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] To calm some waters - about Section 3

2010-08-26 Thread James Livingston
On 25/08/2010, at 5:41 PM, Frederik Ramm wrote: There is also a very practical reason against fixing anything, and *specifically* a share-alike requirement, in the CT, and that is that in order to make *clear* what you want you will have to write half a license into the CT. I completely

Re: [talk-au] Bridges in the ACT

2010-08-14 Thread James Livingston
On 15/08/2010, at 1:28 AM, John Smith wrote: On 14 August 2010 18:19, Roy Wallace waldo000...@gmail.com wrote: This sounds right to me. But if you propose bridge:ref=* then you should probably also use bridge:name=* rather than the already proposed bridge_name=*. I still think it should be

Re: [OSM-talk] A plea for meaning ful changeset comments

2010-07-30 Thread James Livingston
On 30/07/2010, at 9:52 PM, Steve Bennett wrote: For me, very frequently, the changeset just represents a random bunch of edits I happened to be doing at one time, with not much cohesion. There are different suburbs all in the same changeset as I flitted about. My editing falls into two

Re: [talk-au] ODBL yet again, but from a pragmatic approach...

2010-07-30 Thread James Livingston
On 30/07/2010, at 3:54 PM, John Smith wrote: I've cc'd Grant on this email, he posted to the #osm-au IRC channel about some proposed changes to the CTs, which I was hoping would have come up in another thread by now: LWG is considering: 3. OSMF agrees to use or sub-license Your Contents

Re: [talk-au] Over taking sections on highways

2010-07-26 Thread James Livingston
On 26/07/2010, at 7:12 PM, John Smith wrote: How do people tag over taking sections on highways where there is no physical separation between oncoming traffic? I've never tagged them before, but there is http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:overtaking for marking where overtaking is legal.

Re: [talk-au] Over taking sections on highways

2010-07-26 Thread James Livingston
On 26/07/2010, at 9:05 PM, John Smith wrote: On 26 July 2010 20:56, James Livingston li...@sunsetutopia.com wrote: On 26/07/2010, at 7:12 PM, John Smith wrote: I've never tagged them before, but there is http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:overtaking for marking where overtaking is legal

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] License Cut-over and critical mass

2010-07-20 Thread James Livingston
On 20/07/2010, at 9:10 AM, Emilie Laffray wrote: To the best of my knowledge, violating a contract and making the data available doesn't make the data public domain. Indeed. The relevant question is then Is hosting a copy of ODbL licensed material (e.g. a planet dump) on your website without

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] License Cut-over and critical mass

2010-07-17 Thread James Livingston
On 17/07/2010, at 4:12 AM, Simon Ward wrote: On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 10:01:08PM +1000, James Livingston wrote: * It also uses contract law, which makes things a *lot* more complicated Despite my strong bias towards copyleft, I thought this was a problem with the license. Unfortunately

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Upgrading to future ODbL version

2010-07-17 Thread James Livingston
On 17/07/2010, at 4:58 AM, Frederik Ramm wrote: I noticed something that had escaped my attention until now. The contributor terms say that OSMF will release the data under ODbL 1.0, CC-BY-SA 2.0 or another free and open license accepted by 2/3 of active members. Notice the absence of

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] What could we do to make this licences discussion more inclusive?

2010-07-17 Thread James Livingston
On 17/07/2010, at 6:34 PM, Heiko Jacobs wrote: Michael Barabanov schrieb: Consider two cases: 1. Current license does not cover the OSM data (I think that's the OSMF view). In this case, OSMF can just change to ODBL without asking anyone. 2. Current license does cover the OSM data.

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] License Cut-over and critical mass

2010-07-16 Thread James Livingston
On 16/07/2010, at 6:35 PM, Rob Myers wrote: ODbL is a comparable licence to BY-SA, with the main change being that it has actually been written to cover data. If people don't relicence because they are afraid not enough people will relicence then that will be a bit of a self-fulfilling

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] License Cut-over and critical mass

2010-07-16 Thread James Livingston
On 16/07/2010, at 6:28 PM, Andy Allan wrote: On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 11:53 PM, 80n 80n...@gmail.com wrote: There's only one undeniable fact in this whole affair. Exactly 100% of all contributors have signed up to CC-BY-SA and have indicated that they are willing to contribute their data under

Re: [OSM-talk] Defining critical mass...

2010-07-15 Thread James Livingston
On 14/07/2010, at 9:52 PM, John Smith wrote: On 14 July 2010 20:59, Richard Weait rich...@weait.com wrote: What do you suggest would be acceptable / unacceptable? I would consider things to fail if more than 5-10% of data disappears in any region. At the very least it would be demoralising

Re: [OSM-talk] What could we do to make this licences discussion more inclusive?

2010-07-14 Thread James Livingston
On 14/07/2010, at 10:28 PM, Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason wrote: I'm no expert on this sort of thing, but there are probably a lot of well known pitfalls to avoid when trying to run an inclusive international project in many languages. I'd think having English-only discussion at a set time

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] License Cut-over and critical mass

2010-07-13 Thread James Livingston
On 13/07/2010, at 10:47 PM, Richard Weait wrote: Anybody who can suggest a way to accurately predict the user numbers and data % and location and the extent where blank spots might arise should help us to allay these fears. But I think that there are simply too many variables to predict the

Re: [talk-au] Queensland parks, forests and conservation areas

2010-07-13 Thread James Livingston
On 12/07/2010, at 9:06 PM, Markus wrote: Also I have noticed in potlatch the coastline seems to render better also when having the coastline separate as it will draw the coatline even if the park goes over it. Yep, sounds like a good plan. I think this can happen a bit because

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] new license use case questions

2010-07-09 Thread James Livingston
On 09/07/2010, at 1:07 AM, David Carmean wrote: They use a shapefile generated from a filtered snapshot of OSM data--leaving only roads--as a base layer. If they do nothing else but serve this one-time snapshot as a base layer, what are their obligations? My opinion is that since they've

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] public transport routing and OSM-ODbL

2010-07-09 Thread James Livingston
On 09/07/2010, at 12:24 AM, Matt Amos wrote: I agree with Andy. This is what I understand the ODbL to be saying. Unfortunately, as with any legal text, its difficult to read and this is an unavoidable consequence of the legal system. If you need interpretation of the license, new or old,

Re: [talk-au] ODBL yet again, but from a pragmatic approach...

2010-07-09 Thread James Livingston
On 10/07/2010, at 9:18 AM, John Smith wrote: however due to the absence of requiring such a free license to be cc-by compatible (require some form of attribution) this then means any cc-by data would now have to be expunged from the system. Only if the copyright holder hasn't agreed to the

Re: [talk-au] cc-by not compatible with ODBL ?

2010-07-08 Thread James Livingston
On 08/07/2010, at 5:16 PM, Neil Penman wrote: I have found numerous cases where towns have two police stations marked. One in the correct spot, added by a mapper, and one in some other arbitrary place added by a bulk upload. I'm not totally against this, but ultimately its community

Re: [talk-au] cc-by not compatible with ODBL ?

2010-07-08 Thread James Livingston
On 08/07/2010, at 7:13 AM, Liz wrote: I don't think that they are compatible. My experience of law is small and it is an opinion only. I thought (and hoped) that the attribution requirements of ODbL would satisfy the requirements of CC-BY, but I'm not a lawyer. Certainly we would have to

Re: [talk-au] OSM, eat your heart out... :)

2010-07-08 Thread James Livingston
On 9 July 2010 10:38, Ben Last ben.l...@nearmap.com wrote: It'd be better like this: http://hello.eboy.com/eboy/wp-content/uploads/2006/04/FTN_CommunicationCity_06t.png So http://opengeodata.org/isometric-osm-maps?c=1 then? ___ Talk-au mailing list

Re: [talk-au] Queensland parks, forests and conservation areas

2010-07-03 Thread James Livingston
On 30/06/2010, at 7:48 AM, Roy Wallace wrote: Is it worth using an additional classification:qld=national_park|conservation_park|state_forest, etc. (or similar), just to make things extra clear? That is, when you use a rule like Conservation Parks get boundary=protected_area, I think it

Re: [talk-au] Queensland parks, forests and conservation areas

2010-06-29 Thread James Livingston
On 28/06/2010, at 11:10 PM, Markus wrote: Sound good to me to leave the GLR number and Ecolink if you put it with a standard osm key. Here's what I've currently got, any more comments? 1) National park get boundary=national_park and leisure=nature_reserve. Should any of the standard,

Re: [talk-au] Queensland parks, forests and conservation areas

2010-06-28 Thread James Livingston
On 28/06/2010, at 8:16 PM, Markus wrote: Forests Landuse=forest National Parks boundary=national_park leisure=nature_reserve Sounds good. Protected Areas boundary=protected_area protect_id= Ah, the original data had IUCN codes, so I can put these back in as protect_id 1-6. I

[talk-au] Queensland parks, forests and conservation areas

2010-06-27 Thread James Livingston
Hi all, I've been looking at http://data.australia.gov.au/127, which contains all the national parks, state forest, conservation areas and so on in Queensland. If no-one else had been doing anything with this, I'd been thinking about adding it to OSM. Current practice seems to be tagging them

Re: [OSM-talk] Calling all bulk importers

2010-06-25 Thread James Livingston
On 17/06/2010, at 2:21 AM, Mike Collinson wrote: If you have been involved in bulk import of data from third-parties, may I ask you to check that this is on http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Catalogue . Why? Now we have final versions of everything, the License Working Group is

Re: [OSM-talk] Changed highway=*_link meaning?!

2010-06-23 Thread James Livingston
On 23/06/2010, at 8:56 PM, Andy Allan wrote: Don't worry, it hasn't actually changed the meaning of anything - it's just that the wiki is now wrong. The easy way to fix the situation is to correct the wiki - it's as straightforward as that. You could argue the wiki is now wrong, but you could

Re: [OSM-talk] Bug reporting problems (was: Big sponsors)

2010-06-18 Thread James Livingston
On 18/06/2010, at 4:56 PM, Ben Last wrote: The existing editors (and I include Potlatch, JOSM and MapZen in that) are powerful and well suited to users who understand mapping and OSM and are motived to deal with the UI complexity, but are not at all well suited to generalist users who want

Re: [talk-au] Hikers on this list?

2010-06-18 Thread James Livingston
On 17/06/2010, at 1:49 PM, Roy Wallace wrote: Try Australian Standard AS 2156.1-2001 (Walking tracks - Classification and signage) http://infostore.saiglobal.com/store2/Details.aspx?ProductID=260163 (not free, but try e.g. the following page for some details:

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] ODbL Use Case: comparing OSM and proprietary data

2010-06-15 Thread James Livingston
On 15/06/2010, at 7:24 PM, Frederik Ramm wrote: 2. create a data set derived from OSM with number of road kilometres in each tile I'd argue that this step could be seen as creating a Produced Work not a derived database. Consider if you rendered a heat map of OSM where each pixel in the

Re: [talk-au] tagging giveway signs

2010-06-11 Thread James Livingston
On 11/06/2010, at 12:13 PM, John Smith wrote: On 11 June 2010 11:45, Simon Biber simonbi...@yahoo.com.au wrote: My personal preference would have been to use give_way, since it follows the tradition of using British English as the source of tag names, but the majority of mappers so far have

Re: [talk-au] The nearmap effect

2010-06-09 Thread James Livingston
On 09/06/2010, at 1:20 PM, Steve Bennett wrote: Err, and just now I notice that when you press b in Potlatch, instead of creating source=nearmap, it creates a tag like http://www.nearmap.com/kh/zxy=!,!,!;. Wonder when this change happened, and is that a bug? It sure looks like it... Did

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] You may not sublicense your rights under these Terms to any person

2010-02-11 Thread James Livingston
On 11/02/2010, at 8:14 PM, Stefan Neufeind wrote: Agreed, trying to ask them would be a good thing. Has helped in some cases in the past where authorities (city government or the like) re-thought their license :-) The Australian Toilet Map data got discussed on talk-au back in December, and

Re: [talk-au] repurcussions of IceTV decision

2010-02-11 Thread James Livingston
On 11/02/2010, at 5:33 AM, Liz wrote: Haven't got far through the judgement so far but this sounds quite clear. 7. The Copyright Act does not protect facts, ideas or information contained in a work, to ensure a balance is struck between the interests of authors and those in society: IceTV

Re: [talk-au] Boat ramp

2010-01-21 Thread James Livingston
On 21/01/2010, at 9:35 AM, Steve Bennett wrote: I would suggest tagging the way leisure=slipway. If you need to break the current specification to do so, then make a note on the wiki page. Tagging it highway=service seems wrong. Service roads do not go underwater... The tagging system is

Re: [talk-au] access=destination

2010-01-15 Thread James Livingston
On 15/01/2010, at 8:45 PM, Liz wrote: so perhaps the signs are actually meaningless in law they appear in council minutes so perhaps its a local council job From my searching, it looks like councils are responsible for putting up these signs and I couldn't find any actual legal definition of

Re: [talk-au] Haitian Earthquake Emphasizes Danger of a Split Geo Community

2010-01-15 Thread James Livingston
On 16/01/2010, at 9:32 AM, John Smith wrote: This seems like a spurious argument, ok your suggestion will allow both projects to profit from your data, but any additions can't be shared back with your suggested project, nor will Google share any of it's data back, unless it's in Google's own

Re: [talk-au] Default access restrictions

2010-01-08 Thread James Livingston
On 07/01/2010, at 5:25 PM, John Smith wrote: 2010/1/7 Roy Wallace waldo000...@gmail.com: I usually interpret designated as signed, which is an attractive interpretation because it's verifiable. To avoid confusion perhaps it should have been bicycle=signed? :) Then we would have confusion

Re: [talk-au] Distinguish between National, State etc parks

2010-01-04 Thread James Livingston
On 04/01/2010, at 9:57 PM, Steve Bennett wrote: . Ok, there are a few issues. First, natural= just describes what's on the land, like trees or not, so isn't useful. The right tag would be something like landuse=reserve, although this appears to be still under debate:

Re: [talk-au] Relations, road names and numbers

2010-01-04 Thread James Livingston
On 04/01/2010, at 5:19 PM, Mark Pulley wrote: The question is, should we move highway= onto the relation for all relations? There's probably a fix for Mapnik to save editing every relation we've done, so I've added a ticket to OSM. http://trac.openstreetmap.org/ticket/2599 I wouldn't

Re: [talk-au] Sports Clubs

2009-12-14 Thread James Livingston
On 14/12/2009, at 6:41 PM, Steve Bennett wrote: I think my central argument is this: Your sports_club venue could be - a sports facility with no eating/drinking/gambling facilities for the public - an eating/drinking/gambling venue for the public with no sports facilities - or both. This

Re: [talk-au] Sports Clubs

2009-12-14 Thread James Livingston
On 14/12/2009, at 6:58 PM, Stephen Hope wrote: The reason I thought they may be a QLD thing is the state Government here licences them a bit differently from your average pub (or used to, I haven't checked lately). Thus the (official) members only rules, connection to a sport club, etc.

Re: [talk-au] Sports Clubs

2009-12-14 Thread James Livingston
On 14/12/2009, at 7:10 PM, Steve Bennett wrote: On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 8:03 PM, James Livingston doc...@mac.com wrote: I'm sure that there was a tag for the first, although I can't find it now. Something like leisure=club_rooms or similar, which related to a sporting group but wasn't

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] OBbL and forks

2009-12-11 Thread James Livingston
On 09/12/2009, at 11:46 AM, Anthony wrote: A transfer of copyright is a transfer of exclusive rights. In the US, and probably in other jurisdictions as well, it must be signed and in writing. One key difference is that someone who is granted a nonexclusive license does not have the power

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] OBbL and forks

2009-12-11 Thread James Livingston
On 12/12/2009, at 7:07 AM, andrzej zaborowski wrote: But if the foundation wants to have copyright in the data I think it's trivial for it to have some by doing *some* of the maintenance edits on behalf of the foundation or one person (or more) transferring their rights instead of everyone

Re: [OSM-talk] [talk-au] Fwd: Re: Why PD is not better for business

2009-12-11 Thread James Livingston
On 11/12/2009, at 8:02 PM, Elizabeth Dodd wrote: so we don't need imported data? In most cases we don't need imported data, but it can be useful. For example rather than painstakingly crafting the entire coastline of Australia from a few GPS traces and a lot of imagery (much is relatively

Re: [talk-au] Fwd: Re: [OSM-talk] Why PD is not better for business

2009-12-11 Thread James Livingston
On 11/12/2009, at 8:02 PM, Elizabeth Dodd wrote: so we don't need imported data? In most cases we don't need imported data, but it can be useful. For example rather than painstakingly crafting the entire coastline of Australia from a few GPS traces and a lot of imagery (much is relatively

Re: [talk-au] [OSM-talk] And the prize for the largest closed way goes to...

2009-12-10 Thread James Livingston
On 10/12/2009, at 6:57 PM, Liz wrote: On Thu, 10 Dec 2009, Frederik Ramm wrote: ... the excellent Philippines mapping team who managed to create one single closed way enclosing an area of roughly 300 thousand square kilometres! http://www.openstreetmap.org/?way=32126765 The runner-up is

Re: [talk-au] Australia BP service station dataset - suitable for bulk import?

2009-12-10 Thread James Livingston
On Wednesday, December 09, 2009, at 03:25PM, Chris Barham cbar...@pobox.com wrote: BP allows free download of GPS data for their Australian service stations. Has anyone asked any of the other companies yet? If not, I'll send some emails about:

Re: [talk-au] Implications of license change on use of Australian data sources (e.g. nearmap)

2009-12-09 Thread James Livingston
On 09/12/2009, at 6:38 PM, Roy Wallace wrote: If you derive information from observing our PhotoMaps, and include that information in a work, you will own that work, and may distribute it to others under a Creative Commons licence. Does that not imply that the derived information may only be

Re: [talk-au] Australia BP service station dataset - suitable for bulk import?

2009-12-09 Thread James Livingston
On 09/12/2009, at 8:26 PM, Steve Bennett wrote: Can we really maintain this? These services come and go fairly frequently. Individual things like whether they have LPG filling for bbqs maybe, but servos don't move that often (usually taken over by another one). In any case, it's probably not

Re: [talk-au] Australia BP service station dataset - suitable for bulk import?

2009-12-09 Thread James Livingston
On 09/12/2009, at 8:41 PM, Steve Bennett wrote: On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 9:37 PM, James Livingston doc...@mac.com wrote: I'd suggest doing something like import if there is not an existing amenity=fuel within X distance, flag it for manual checking if there is. Ah, didn't know that kind

Re: [talk-au] Can't see the facts for the FUD

2009-12-07 Thread James Livingston
On 07/12/2009, at 7:29 PM, John Smith wrote: 2009/12/7 Liz ed...@billiau.net: James has been pointing out that the Feds, who can afford good lawyers, find CC-by-Sa and CC-by as quite satisfactory in Australia. As far as I can gather CC-BY-SA most likely won't work in the US, so I can only

Re: [OSM-talk] [Announce] OSMF license change vote has started

2009-12-05 Thread James Livingston
On 06/12/2009, at 8:44 AM, Ulf Lamping wrote: Tom Hughes schrieb: Polling the OSMF members is just the first stage - there will another vote later when all contributors will be asked whether they want to relicense. With a gun at their head: Refuse: After the migration (currently 26th

Re: [OSM-talk] [Announce] OSMF license change vote has started

2009-12-05 Thread James Livingston
On 06/12/2009, at 10:05 AM, Frederik Ramm wrote: James Livingston wrote: For example, I have inferred road positions from the CC-BY-licensed Queensland DCDB-lite dataset, and have uploaded national park and world-heritage areas from the CC-BY dataset on data.australia.gov.au. As I'm

Re: [talk-au] Database licence

2009-12-05 Thread James Livingston
On 05/12/2009, at 10:29 PM, Alex (Maxious) Sadleir wrote: Certainly we should make this case clear to the OSM community. Database protection always seemed to be a euro-centric ideal and not one that the new licence analysis seemed to respond to adequately. However, I believe that the ODbL

Re: [talk-au] Database licence

2009-12-05 Thread James Livingston
On 05/12/2009, at 11:30 PM, Grant Slater wrote: For clarity... the OSM Foundation is not some evil group... The OSMF is open, anyone from the community can join. The OSMF Board is democratically elected from the OSMF membership. If anyone who isn't a OSMF member wants to read the discussion,

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [Osmf-talk] New license proposal status II

2009-12-03 Thread James Livingston
On 03/12/2009, at 6:12 AM, Mike Collinson wrote: We have now fully updated the OSM Contributors agreement section of the main proposal. I hope that meets concerns about clarity of the change-over process. http://www.osmfoundation.org/images/3/3c/License_Proposal.pdf A while ago on the

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [Osmf-talk] New license proposal status II

2009-12-03 Thread James Livingston
On 03/12/2009, at 10:19 PM, Mike Collinson wrote: - Whether friendly or unfriendly, they never have any obligation to merge in their data improvements into our database. - However, you or I can. Does that make sense? I completely agree that they don't have to do anything towards merging

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [Osmf-talk] New license proposal status II

2009-12-03 Thread James Livingston
On 03/12/2009, at 10:19 PM, Ed Avis wrote: That was my interpretation too. It appears to me that if some well-meaning body released a set of data under the ODbL (which presumably we recommend as an appropriate licence for geodata) then the OSM project would not be able to use it. In other

Re: [OSM-talk] Instead of voting

2009-10-12 Thread James Livingston
On 11/10/2009, at 12:08 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: This proposal includes the deletion of all voting-related stuff including the casted votes of the past. I'd say that this helps prove the point that different people reading different things into what pages on the wiki say. The proposal

Re: [OSM-talk] Tagging schema

2009-10-06 Thread James Livingston
On 05/10/2009, at 7:54 PM, David Earl wrote: * Three new primitives, tagkey for describing the k part of tags, tagvalue for the v part of tags and tagdescription separated off to allow for multiple descriptions in multiple languages without having to download all the data for languages

Re: [OSM-talk] Landuse areas etc. abutting highways

2009-10-06 Thread James Livingston
On 05/10/2009, at 8:18 PM, Marc Schütz wrote: IMO (a) is the correct way to do this. ... For a road, we can either choose to map it as a linear object (this is the common case), or we can map its geometry more exactly by using an area. In both cases, however, the object in our database

Re: [OSM-talk] Tagging schema

2009-10-06 Thread James Livingston
On 06/10/2009, at 10:58 PM, David Earl wrote: On 06/10/2009 13:35, James Livingston wrote: I can see things getting ickier than they are now if you can just go around adding new shop= values, without having some prior discussion to what it means. If I saw a suggested option

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] ODbL virality questions

2009-10-06 Thread James Livingston
On 06/10/2009, at 11:30 PM, Matt Amos wrote: so far, all the responses seem to indicate that everyone thinks linking to OSM data by ID is OK. what about Andy's idea, though? is it OK to take a location, name and possibly an ID as well to perform fuzzy linking? my view is that all the

Re: [talk-au] natural=land v natural=coastline

2009-10-06 Thread James Livingston
On 06/10/2009, at 2:12 PM, John Smith wrote: Lake Eyre etc is so big they used natural=coastline... Although this comes back to the question the other day, where does the coastline start/end, legally speaking it cuts across bays, it doesn't go round them or up rivers... I looked into this a

Re: [talk-au] Why not to change coastlines automatically to ABS data.

2009-10-06 Thread James Livingston
On 05/10/2009, at 3:59 PM, Ross Scanlon wrote: So PLEASE look at the sat photos and already entered data before you go removing the coastline and using the ABS data automatically as the coastline. As a +1 comment, I'd also like to note that in many places the ABS follow the

Re: [talk-au] natural=land v natural=coastline

2009-10-06 Thread James Livingston
On 06/10/2009, at 11:37 PM, Jim Croft wrote: Of course, this won't work for mariners and lawyers... :) No, but there are (proposed) tags to indicate the low-tide mark, and the OpenSeaMap guys might have something for other various maritime boundaries. My favourite estuary is the Fly River

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