Okay, so, I think this thread is wrapping up. I'd like to make a
summary of what I've learned:
o A substantial number of OSM contributors believe that the
Wikipedia lat/lon doesn't meet our standards for fair use of
copyrighted works.
o Some OSM contributors believe that data imports
this will create many duplicates. You will need to do some checking
before a poi is added. so many mass imports are done cleanup is a lot
of work.
checking should be done against points, ways, polygons. in osm tags
are somtimes on building polugon or on a point. If we have both the
map is
available to OSM editors. One way to do that is to have a second API
which consists of a cached copy of everything that map renderers might
use, all merged into one read-only OSM-compatible api. So when
somebody asks to edit an area, the editor also shows them the read-
only elements, so
On Tue, May 05, 2009 at 09:14:30PM +0200, andrzej zaborowski wrote:
Some notes:
There's already the wikipedia=NAME tag (wikipedia=LA:NAME for
non-english wikipedias, where LA=en,de...) in use in some places, so
I'd recommend using that.
Shouldn't that be
wikipedia:LA=NAME
?
Jochen
--
On Tue, May 05, 2009 at 11:59:51PM +0200, Iván Sánchez Ortega wrote:
El Martes, 5 de Mayo de 2009, Russ Nelson escribió:
On May 5, 2009, at 4:37 PM, Richard Fairhurst wrote:
We have the sweat-of-the-brow doctrine instead.
Fine enough, and who sweated hardest to click in a particular
Hi,
Richard Fairhurst wrote:
Don't forget we have _expressly_ asked Google, in the form of Ed
Parsons at SOTM, and he has _expressly_ said, sorry, no, we don't have those
rights to give away.
Of course Russ's argument is that you do not have to be given those
rights, by Ed Parsons or his
On Tue, May 05, 2009 at 11:03:56PM -0700, Richard Fairhurst wrote:
Actually, I think an OSMer said it best on Twitter.
Openstreetmap is about gathering map data and sharing it. Some people seem
desperate to import data from anywhere. GATHER IT YOURSELF.
Well, actually its not. It might have
Jochen Topf wrote:
I don't think we have to worry about that. Google hasn't sued
Wikipedia yet. And Wikipedia has been distributing all those
points in bulk for years.
It isn't about Google, it's about their data providers.
Wikipedia is not a competitor to TeleAtlas. OpenStreetMap is.
On 05/05/2009 20:36, Russ Nelson wrote:
On May 5, 2009, at 3:11 PM, Richard Fairhurst wrote:
Adam Schreiber wrote:
We don't know where the wikipedia users sourced their cooridinates
from.
Oh yes we do: Google Maps.
2009/5/6 Jochen Topf joc...@remote.org:
On Tue, May 05, 2009 at 09:14:30PM +0200, andrzej zaborowski wrote:
Some notes:
There's already the wikipedia=NAME tag (wikipedia=LA:NAME for
non-english wikipedias, where LA=en,de...) in use in some places, so
I'd recommend using that.
Shouldn't that
andrzej zaborowski wrote:
I think wikipedia=XX:NAME was choosen because the other way you can
Chosen? Where? As far as I can see the only discussion is at
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/External_links#Wikipedia
and that says wikipedia:XX=article name in that language
2009/5/6 Jonathan Bennett openstreet...@jonno.cix.co.uk:
andrzej zaborowski wrote:
I think wikipedia=XX:NAME was choosen because the other way you can
Chosen? Where?
On this list I think (or was that irc).
Besides, as present you can't have multiple values for a single tag in
OSM, so
On Wed, May 06, 2009 at 11:04:12AM +0100, Jonathan Bennett wrote:
Besides, as present you can't have multiple values for a single tag in
OSM, so wikipedia=XX:name wouldn't work.
You don't need multiple values. Other languages are linked in Wikipedia,
no need to duplicate this in OSM.
If a
On Tue, May 05, 2009 at 02:00:42PM -0400, Russ Nelson wrote:
Any reason not to go through Wikipedia and import everything with a
coordinate as a POI, with a url=http://wikipedia.org/NAME link, and
name=NAME where NAME is the name of the Wikipedia entry?
This would add a lot of data with
On Wed, May 06, 2009 at 11:48:02AM +0200, andrzej zaborowski wrote:
2009/5/6 Jochen Topf joc...@remote.org:
On Tue, May 05, 2009 at 09:14:30PM +0200, andrzej zaborowski wrote:
Some notes:
There's already the wikipedia=NAME tag (wikipedia=LA:NAME for
non-english wikipedias, where
Jacek Konieczny wrote:
You don't need multiple values. Other languages are linked in Wikipedia,
no need to duplicate this in OSM.
If a place is described in 20 national Wikipedias do we really want 20
wikipedia=XX:name tags in OSM when only single wikipedia=XX:name
links to all the pages?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/en:London
Both links go to the same Wikipedia page.
Ed
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On Wed, May 6, 2009 at 11:11 AM, Jonathan Bennett
openstreet...@jonno.cix.co.uk wrote:
Jacek Konieczny wrote:
You don't need multiple values. Other languages are linked in Wikipedia,
no need to duplicate this in OSM.
If a place is described in 20 national Wikipedias do we really want 20
On May 6, 2009, at 1:14 AM, Rob Reid wrote:
Excellent, so there is nothing to stop me tracing my entire town off
Google Imagery into osm, since all I would be doing is choosing points
off their aerial photograghs and they are not contributing in any
way to
me doing that?
WHERE do you
On May 6, 2009, at 2:03 AM, Richard Fairhurst wrote:
Russ Nelson wrote:
What work or creativity did Google do towards the existence of
that particular point?
Google's imagery suppliers collected and rectified the imagery. For
over a
hundred years, English courts have held that a
On Wed, May 6, 2009 at 5:06 PM, Russ Nelson r...@cloudmade.com wrote:
So, if I understand this discussion, I cannot create a POI based on
Google aerial photography directly in OSM. But if I create my POI
first in Wikipedia, then import it in OSM, it is permitted. Is that
correct ?
Pieren
To: Talk Openstreetmap
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Wikipedia POI import?
On May 6, 2009, at 1:14 AM, Rob Reid wrote:
Excellent, so there is nothing to stop me tracing my entire town off
Google Imagery into osm, since all I would be doing is choosing
points
off their aerial photograghs
Russ Nelson wrote:
WHERE do you guys get these weird ideas about copyright from?
Tell you what. You work for CloudMade, right?
I suggest you ask your bosses. Show them what you're proposing to import.
Show them the Wikipedia page that explains how it's been gathered. Ask them
if they'd be
El Miércoles, 6 de Mayo de 2009, Russ Nelson escribió:
The problem is that people say Why should I have to repeat this
work? It's already been done. Why can't we just import it?
Why should I have to repeat this work? It's already been done by TeleAtlas.
Why can't we just import it?
--
From: Pieren pier...@gmail.com
To: Russ Nelson r...@cloudmade.com
Cc: Talk Openstreetmap talk@openstreetmap.org
Sent: Wednesday, 6 May, 2009 16:17:51
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Wikipedia POI import?
On Wed, May 6, 2009 at 5:06 PM, Russ Nelson r...@cloudmade.com wrote:
So, if I understand
Russ Nelson wrote:
On May 6, 2009, at 2:03 AM, Richard Fairhurst wrote:
Russ Nelson wrote:
What work or creativity did Google do towards the existence of
that particular point?
Google's imagery suppliers collected and rectified the imagery. "For
On May 6, 2009, at 11:06 AM, Russ Nelson wrote:
On May 6, 2009, at 2:03 AM, Richard Fairhurst wrote:
Openstreetmap is about gathering map data and sharing it. Some
people seem
desperate to import data from anywhere. GATHER IT YOURSELF.
The problem is that people say Why should I have
On May 6, 2009, at 11:29 AM, Iván Sánchez Ortega wrote:
El Miércoles, 6 de Mayo de 2009, Russ Nelson escribió:
The problem is that people say Why should I have to repeat this
work? It's already been done. Why can't we just import it?
Why should I have to repeat this work? It's already
On Tue, May 05, 2009 at 09:41:27PM +0200, andrzej zaborowski wrote:
I very much agree about OpenAerialMap -- if we can't trust the
OpenAerialMap contributors about the licensing why should any person
in OSM trust any other OSM contributor rather than start redrawing
everything they can from
Russ Nelson wrote:
TeleAtlas data is copyrighted, and when licensed is licensed under an
incompatible copyright.
The data you're proposing taking from Wikipedia is probably derived, via
Google, from that same TeleAtlas (or Navteq) data.
It doesn't seem plausible that deriving information from
On Wed, May 6, 2009 at 8:03 AM, Richard Fairhurst rich...@systemed.netwrote:
For over a
hundred years, English courts have held that a significant expenditure of
labour is sufficient - that's, er, Wikipedia saying that.
Has there been any sweat of the brow cases after the database directive
On May 6, 2009, at 2:02 PM, Dair Grant wrote:
Russ Nelson wrote:
TeleAtlas data is copyrighted, and when licensed is licensed under an
incompatible copyright.
The data you're proposing taking from Wikipedia is probably derived,
via
Google, from that same TeleAtlas (or Navteq) data.
Russ Nelson wrote:
On May 6, 2009, at 2:02 PM, Dair Grant wrote:
Russ Nelson wrote:
TeleAtlas data is copyrighted, and when licensed is licensed under an
incompatible copyright.
The data you're proposing taking from Wikipedia is probably derived,
via
Google, from that same TeleAtlas
N are known to contain easter eggs (though I don't recall which of the
two denies this publicly).
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Hi,
Russ Nelson wrote:
When somebody enters a POI, we look in
Wikipedia for that entity, and we link to the Wikipedia page and
replace its lat/lon with our own.
* Possible if both Wikipedia and OSM are CC-BY-SA.
* Impossible if you assume that the lat/lon is subejct to copyright and
El día Wednesday 06 May 2009 21:32:49, Gustav Foseid dijo:
Has there been any sweat of the brow cases after the database directive
has been implemented?
I've got JUR 2007, 166551 (Sentencia de la Audiencia Provincial de Madrid,
sección 13ª, del 16 de octubre de 2006 or Madrid provincial
Any reason not to go through Wikipedia and import everything with a
coordinate as a POI, with a url=http://wikipedia.org/NAME link, and
name=NAME where NAME is the name of the Wikipedia entry? If I do this
under a special username, then there is no problem backing out the
import if
On Tue, May 5, 2009 at 2:00 PM, Russ Nelson r...@cloudmade.com wrote:
Any reason not to go through Wikipedia and import everything with a
coordinate as a POI, with a url=http://wikipedia.org/NAME link, and
name=NAME where NAME is the name of the Wikipedia entry?
We don't know where the
Unverified and somewhat copyrightable sources.
Where's ShakespeareFan00 when you need him? :)
2009/5/5 Russ Nelson r...@cloudmade.com:
Any reason not to go through Wikipedia and import everything with a
coordinate as a POI, with a url=http://wikipedia.org/NAME link, and
name=NAME where NAME
On May 5, 2009, at 2:06 PM, Adam Schreiber wrote:
We don't know where the wikipedia users sourced their cooridinates
from.
We don't care either. That's wikipedia's problem. They're licensing
the data under CC-By-SA now, so if we were found to be infringing, it
would be innocent
Hi,
Thomas Wood wrote:
Unverified and somewhat copyrightable sources.
While I'm not the greatest fan of Wikipedia myself, I think that we
should stop perpetuating such unjustified and unfair criticism.
Like us, Wikipedia relies on a large user base, and they do a lot to
educate these users
On Tue, May 5, 2009 at 2:47 PM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote:
Thomas Wood wrote:
Unverified and somewhat copyrightable sources.
While I'm not the greatest fan of Wikipedia myself, I think that we
should stop perpetuating such unjustified and unfair criticism.
Like us, Wikipedia
On Tue, May 5, 2009 at 2:35 PM, Russ Nelson r...@cloudmade.com wrote:
On May 5, 2009, at 2:06 PM, Adam Schreiber wrote:
We don't know where the wikipedia users sourced their cooridinates
from.
We don't care either. That's wikipedia's problem. They're licensing
the data under CC-By-SA
Adam Schreiber wrote:
We don't know where the wikipedia users sourced their cooridinates from.
Oh yes we do: Google Maps.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Obtaining_geographic_coordinates#Google_tools
There is absolutely no way that Wikipedia-derived co-ordinates are suitable
for mass
2009/5/5 Russ Nelson r...@cloudmade.com:
Any reason not to go through Wikipedia and import everything with a
coordinate as a POI, with a url=http://wikipedia.org/NAME link, and
name=NAME where NAME is the name of the Wikipedia entry? If I do this
under a special username, then there is no
IANAL but can't you stop basing your defense on the good faith
argument as soon as you discuss the content beforehand like we're doing?
Le 5 mai 09 à 20:58, Adam Schreiber a écrit :
Is it innocent infringement if we import licensed data in good faith,
knowing that there may be problems with
Frederik Ramm wrote:
Thomas Wood wrote:
Where's ShakespeareFan00 when you need him? :)
That poor guy has been told by some self-important OSMers that
Wikimapia was an unacceptable source, and they somehow forgot
to say that this is just the OSM interpretation. SFan00 dutifully
started
Russ Nelson schrieb:
Any reason not to go through Wikipedia and import everything with a
coordinate as a POI, with a url=http://wikipedia.org/NAME link, and
name=NAME where NAME is the name of the Wikipedia entry?
* There is already a free, constantly-updated, machine-readable and,
most
On May 5, 2009, at 2:58 PM, Adam Schreiber wrote:
Is it innocent infringement if we import licensed data in good faith,
knowing that there may be problems with what they've provided?
Do we in fact know this? If so, we should report it to Wikipedia so
that they can fix it.
If you have no
On May 5, 2009, at 3:11 PM, Richard Fairhurst wrote:
Adam Schreiber wrote:
We don't know where the wikipedia users sourced their cooridinates
from.
Oh yes we do: Google Maps.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Obtaining_geographic_coordinates#Google_tools
There is absolutely no
2009/5/5 Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org:
Please: Wikimapia, or even Wikipedia or OpenAerialMap may be on the
other side of *our* definition of acceptable, but that does not make
them any less free, or make them second-rate projects. It is time to
bury that childish but we are cleaner than
On May 5, 2009, at 3:23 PM, Tobias Knerr wrote:
Russ Nelson schrieb:
Any reason not to go through Wikipedia and import everything with a
coordinate as a POI, with a url=http://wikipedia.org/NAME link, and
name=NAME where NAME is the name of the Wikipedia entry?
* There is already a free,
On May 5, 2009, at 4:37 PM, Richard Fairhurst wrote:
We have the sweat-of-the-brow doctrine instead.
Fine enough, and who sweated hardest to click in a particular point on
a Google Map? Google? Or the Wikipedia editor, who located the
point, identified the point, clicked on the point,
Russ Nelson wrote:
Fine enough, and who sweated hardest to click in a particular point
on a Google Map? Google? Or the Wikipedia editor[...]?
Sweat-of-the-brow doesn't mean that. It doesn't mean that A did some work,
but B did more, so B owns the copyright. _Both_ A and B own some
El Martes, 5 de Mayo de 2009, Russ Nelson escribió:
On May 5, 2009, at 4:37 PM, Richard Fairhurst wrote:
We have the sweat-of-the-brow doctrine instead.
Fine enough, and who sweated hardest to click in a particular point on
a Google Map? Google? Or the Wikipedia editor [...] OMG, I'm
Richard Fairhurst wrote:
Adam Schreiber wrote:
We don't know where the wikipedia users sourced their cooridinates from.
Oh yes we do: Google Maps.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Obtaining_geographic_coordinates#Google_tools
There is absolutely no way that Wikipedia-derived
Russ Nelson wrote:
Any reason not to go through Wikipedia and import everything with a
coordinate as a POI, with a url=http://wikipedia.org/NAME link, and
name=NAME where NAME is the name of the Wikipedia entry? If I do this
under a special username, then there is no problem backing out
On May 5, 2009, at 5:47 PM, Richard Fairhurst wrote:
Russ Nelson wrote:
Fine enough, and who sweated hardest to click in a particular point
on a Google Map? Google? Or the Wikipedia editor[...]?
Sweat-of-the-brow doesn't mean that. It doesn't mean that A did
some work,
but B did
On May 5, 2009, at 5:59 PM, Iván Sánchez Ortega wrote:
We don't push the legal envelope.
Bullshit. Sorry, but it's bullshit. Okay, so I have a railroad
map [...]
All you can do is close your eyes, let me import it, and hope that
I'm not
infringing some railroad mapping company's
Russ Nelson wrote the following on 06/05/2009 14:29:
On May 5, 2009, at 5:47 PM, Richard Fairhurst wrote:
Russ Nelson wrote:
Fine enough, and who sweated hardest to click in a particular point
on a Google Map? Google? Or the Wikipedia editor[...]?
Sweat-of-the-brow
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