Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] License to kill

2009-03-06 Thread Peter Miller
On 6 Mar 2009, at 11:07, 80n wrote: On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 9:54 AM, graham gra...@theseamans.net wrote: Frederik Ramm wrote: I believe the Foundation intends to give a vote *only* to those who were members in good standing as of January 23rd so your few days had better be 40-ish if

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] License to kill

2009-03-06 Thread Frederik Ramm
Hi, graham wrote: How do I find out if I'm a member in good standing? Is it possible to check the register of members? I recently asked bo...@osmf for a list of members and received the answer that providing such a list might clash with members' privacy; but they said they thought that

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] License to kill

2009-03-06 Thread Tom Hughes
Frederik Ramm wrote: I recently asked bo...@osmf for a list of members and received the answer that providing such a list might clash with members' privacy; but they said they thought that creating a members-only mailing list would be a good idea (I expect this to be done any day now). So

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] License to kill

2009-03-06 Thread 80n
On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 6:51 AM, Richard Fairhurst rich...@systemed.netwrote: 80n wrote: I support Frederik's view that the community is the most valuable aspect of OSM. Um, I'm not arguing against that. All I'm disputing is this silly little notion that maps automatically lose all value

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] License to kill

2009-03-06 Thread 80n
On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 10:49 AM, Tom Hughes t...@compton.nu wrote: Frederik Ramm wrote: I recently asked bo...@osmf for a list of members and received the answer that providing such a list might clash with members' privacy; but they said they thought that creating a members-only mailing

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] License to kill

2009-03-06 Thread Frederik Ramm
Hi, Russ Nelson wrote: Well, Ulf has explicitly said that he doesn't trust the process to keep the data free, and wants to be able to sue people whom he believes are infringing the copyright. But as far as contributing without a clear agreement, just look at Wikimapia. Contributing

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] License to kill

2009-03-05 Thread Frederik Ramm
Hi, Peter Miller wrote: If we get 99% there with version 1.0 and version 2.0 takes the next two years then the cost benefit, to me, would suggest 1.0 as the better deal. Lets first get the consultation input into Jordan, then lets read the updated draft, then comment again if that is

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] License to kill

2009-03-05 Thread Russ Nelson
On Mar 5, 2009, at 1:10 PM, Frederik Ramm wrote: Also, the cost of staying with buggy old CC-BY-SA for a few months longer is rather negligible, The barn down the road from me was standing on just four 9 beams. We kept saying Boy, that barn has some structural problems. It could fall

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] License to kill

2009-03-05 Thread Richard Fairhurst
OJ W wrote: Given that maps need to be regularly updated to stay useful, anyone relying on a CC-BY-SA loophole will be just as SOL if we change the license in a year as if we changed it in time for april fools Shit, I'd better cancel the 25,000 copies of Waterways World rolling off the

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] License to kill

2009-03-05 Thread OJ W
The UK canals don't contribute to the licensing discussions because you mapped them as PD. So we can do whatever we want with the canal data without having to consult anyone. On Thu, Mar 5, 2009 at 11:11 PM, Richard Fairhurst rich...@systemed.net wrote: OJ W wrote: Given that maps need to be

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] License to kill

2009-03-05 Thread Richard Fairhurst
OJ W wrote: The UK canals don't contribute to the licensing discussions because you mapped them as PD. I did? I've done comparatively little canal line mapping in OSM, let alone bridges and locks. Richard -- View this message in context:

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] License to kill

2009-03-05 Thread Frederik Ramm
Hi, Richard Fairhurst wrote: OJ W wrote: Given that maps need to be regularly updated to stay useful, anyone relying on a CC-BY-SA loophole will be just as SOL if we change the license in a year as if we changed it in time for april fools Shit, I'd better cancel the 25,000 copies of

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] License to kill

2009-03-05 Thread Richard Fairhurst
80n wrote: I support Frederik's view that the community is the most valuable aspect of OSM. Um, I'm not arguing against that. All I'm disputing is this silly little notion that maps automatically lose all value after a year or two. cheers Richard -- View this message in context:

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] License to kill

2009-03-05 Thread SteveC
On 4 Mar 2009, at 23:24, 80n wrote: On Thu, Mar 5, 2009 at 12:48 AM, SteveC st...@asklater.com wrote: On 4 Mar 2009, at 08:12, Gervase Markham wrote: So lets concentrate on that. Lets build a better process. Lets build a consensus. Absolutely! As long as you allow us the time to

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] License to kill

2009-03-05 Thread Peter Miller
On 5 Mar 2009, at 16:09, SteveC wrote: On 4 Mar 2009, at 23:24, 80n wrote: We shouldn't let other people's timescales force our own decisions. If more time is needed, and there is a lot of opinion that suggests it is, if the current issues cannot be resolved by April 1 then of course we

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] License to kill

2009-03-05 Thread OJ W
On Thu, Mar 5, 2009 at 7:34 PM, Russ Nelson r...@cloudmade.com wrote: On Mar 5, 2009, at 1:10 PM, Frederik Ramm wrote:  Also, the cost of staying with buggy old CC-BY-SA for a few months longer is rather negligible, The barn down the road from me was standing on just four 9 beams.  We kept

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] License to kill

2009-03-05 Thread Russ Nelson
On Mar 5, 2009, at 3:34 PM, OJ W wrote: Given that maps need to be regularly updated to stay useful, anyone relying on a CC-BY-SA loophole will be just as SOL if we change the license in a year as if we changed it in time for april fools, as their update stream stops when the license changes.

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] License to kill

2009-03-05 Thread Frederik Ramm
Hi, Russ Nelson wrote: The barn down the road from me was standing on just four 9 beams. We kept saying Boy, that barn has some structural problems. It could fall down at any time. It didn't fall, and it didn't fall. One might be tempted to think that one could go into the barn and

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] License to kill

2009-03-04 Thread Peter Miller
On 4 Mar 2009, at 16:12, Gervase Markham wrote: Incidentally, we're not all code weenies with no clue about licensing. I've been point of contact at the Mozilla project (which is of not insignificant size and complexity) for licensing issues for about five years now, although recently we

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] License to kill

2009-03-04 Thread SteveC
On 4 Mar 2009, at 11:27, Frederik Ramm wrote: Steve reluctant to publish publicly as it would invite another round of changes. Blimey, if you talk to people, they might have ideas and suggestions or even want to CHANGE something. Better keep things to yourself and complain later.