Re: [OSM-talk] #AttributionIsNotOptional experiment on OSM France tile servers

Le jeudi 12 mars 2020 à 18:33:15 UTC+1, Simon Poole a écrit : > -that- is not what is analogous to what we are discussing, it would be more like displaying the message that you are late with the payment on every TV in the country. It would be only for every TV relying on my stream because

Re: [OSM-talk] #AttributionIsNotOptional experiment on OSM France tile servers

Am 12.03.2020 um 16:06 schrieb THEVENON Julien: > Le jeudi 12 mars 2020 à 15:43:17 UTC+1, Simon Poole a écrit > : > >> To use a completely different example: assume that you purchase a TV set >> paid by monthly instalments and you default on them. In civilised countries >> that doesn't give

Re: [OSM-talk] #AttributionIsNotOptional experiment on OSM France tile servers

Am 12.03.2020 um 15:56 schrieb Pierre Béland: > Mar. 12 2020 10 h 43 min  UTC−4, Simon Poole wrote : > > > To use a completely different example: assume that you purchase > a TV set paid by monthly instalments and you default on them. In > civilised countries that doesn't give the seller

Re: [OSM-talk] #AttributionIsNotOptional experiment on OSM France tile servers

Le jeudi 12 mars 2020 à 15:43:17 UTC+1, Simon Poole a écrit : > To use a completely different example: assume that you purchase a TV set paid > by monthly instalments and you default on them. In civilised countries that > doesn't give the seller the right to break in to your apartment and

Re: [OSM-talk] #AttributionIsNotOptional experiment on OSM France tile servers

Mar. 12 2020 10 h 43 min  UTC−4, Simon Poole wrote : > To use a completely different example: assume that you purchase a TV set > paid by monthly instalments and you default on them. In civilised > countries that doesn't give the seller the right to break in to your > apartment and

Re: [OSM-talk] #AttributionIsNotOptional experiment on OSM France tile servers

The process of - creating a list of sites that you want to target - creating a message and designing a method to display it on the 3rd parties website is very much deliberately scribbling on the third parties website. To use a completely different example: assume that you purchase a TV set

Re: [OSM-talk] #AttributionIsNotOptional experiment on OSM France tile servers

Am Do., 12. März 2020 um 11:50 Uhr schrieb Simon Poole : > So say you scribble on a German companies website, > I am not talking about "scribbling" on someone else's website. The case at hand is about a specific website infringing attribution requirements and as a result they themselves

Re: [OSM-talk] #AttributionIsNotOptional experiment on OSM France tile servers

Am 12.03.2020 um 10:58 schrieb Martin Koppenhoefer: > Am Mi., 11. März 2020 um 17:21 Uhr schrieb Simon Poole >: > > I would be very very wary of doing anything that deliberately > defaces a web site without consulting with a local (to the country > the web site

Re: [OSM-talk] #AttributionIsNotOptional experiment on OSM France tile servers

Am Mi., 11. März 2020 um 17:21 Uhr schrieb Simon Poole : > I would be very very wary of doing anything that deliberately defaces a > web site without consulting with a local (to the country the web site is > in) lawyer, particularly if the message implies wrong doing." > > As I am not a lawyer in

Re: [OSM-talk] #AttributionIsNotOptional experiment on OSM France tile servers

Hello, Simon Poole wrote > it is clear that using a neutral message and clear ToUs, > is definitely less risky than an aggressive > message without ToUs. I fully agree with that. so I suggest that we include in the ToU : - the "caller" may include a means of contact in its call to the tiles (

Re: [OSM-talk] #AttributionIsNotOptional experiment on OSM France tile servers

Well the other bit that I wrote was: "Enforcing attribution for services that you are providing directly (aka tiles in some form) only has a small overlap with the goals of the attribution guideline, and the avenues open to you depend on your ToUs / contracts with your users and the legal

Re: [OSM-talk] #AttributionIsNotOptional experiment on OSM France tile servers

If the terms of use is sufficiently clear, and a couple of warnings have been issued beforehand, then what can possibly happen? This is a rhetorical question. Yves Le 11 mars 2020 16:10:55 GMT+01:00, Simon Poole a écrit : > >Am 11.03.2020 um 15:48 schrieb Mateusz Konieczny via talk: >> Mar

Re: [OSM-talk] #AttributionIsNotOptional experiment on OSM France tile servers

On 11/03/2020 09:37, Simon Poole wrote: As I wrote (conveniently ignored in the noise of the vigilante rampage): "The safe, I admit also the less fun, option, is to simply block access after giving any required notice." Hi Simon.  let me provide you my individual reason for ignoring your

Re: [OSM-talk] #AttributionIsNotOptional experiment on OSM France tile servers

Hi Christian, That's a interesting approach, and interesting to see that it gets results. If you think it's too rude, or aggressive, you should remember that polite words sometimes don't work. If you don't like people shouting at you, then it's your fault for ignoring them when they speak

Re: [OSM-talk] #AttributionIsNotOptional experiment on OSM France tile servers

Hi Simon, In a volunteer community, fun things are more likely to happen at all. So I do think the idea is worth exploring, even if the current implementation might be risky to OSMfr or to OSMF if implemented without much further thought. I would personally be interested in a more in depth

Re: [OSM-talk] #AttributionIsNotOptional experiment on OSM France tile servers

Am 11.03.2020 um 15:48 schrieb Mateusz Konieczny via talk: > Mar 11, 2020, 15:37 by si...@poole.ch: > > As I wrote (conveniently ignored in the noise of the vigilante > rampage): " > > I guess that people were irritated by describing gentle reminder about > license requirements > using

Re: [OSM-talk] #AttributionIsNotOptional experiment on OSM France tile servers

Mar 11, 2020, 15:37 by si...@poole.ch: > > As I wrote (conveniently ignored in the noise of the vigilante rampage): > " > > I guess that people were irritated by describing gentle reminder about license requirements using pejorative terms ("deface") where their applicability was dubious.

Re: [OSM-talk] #AttributionIsNotOptional experiment on OSM France tile servers

As I wrote (conveniently ignored in the noise of the vigilante rampage): "The safe, I admit also the less fun, option, is to simply block access after giving any required notice." Simon Am 11.03.2020 um 14:49 schrieb joost schouppe: > Simon, > > I guess with small overlap you mean it's only

Re: [OSM-talk] #AttributionIsNotOptional experiment on OSM France tile servers

Simon, I guess with small overlap you mean it's only about people who use osm.org tiles, not people who use other services? While that is true, the double whammy of both heavily using resources and also not attributing does seem like a good subgroup to start with some measures. In the case of

Re: [OSM-talk] #AttributionIsNotOptional experiment on OSM France tile servers

On 08/03/2020 15:15, Pierre Béland via talk wrote: semi transparent the problem here is technical. I'm rewording here something that was said to me here today: I don't think you can reply with a composite object (tile + transparency) to a request for a single image object.  for this, you

Re: [OSM-talk] #AttributionIsNotOptional experiment on OSM France tile servers

  Pierre Mar.8, 2020 1byMateusz Konieczny > To be more clear: I fully support action like OSM France to actually enforce > license requirements using methods like described here or by a legal action > like > DMCA takedown notices against entities refusing to show a proper attribution.

Re: [OSM-talk] #AttributionIsNotOptional experiment on OSM France tile servers

Hi highly doubt that's even "defacing" a website. Google does it https://stackoverflow.com/questions/50977913/google-maps-shows-for-development-purposes-only Attribute or leave it. I too applause OSM FR attitude towards these license infringement. Seems, judging by the previous board denial to

Re: [OSM-talk] #AttributionIsNotOptional experiment on OSM France tile servers

Mar 8, 2020, 16:42 by ma...@anche.no: > > not to deface any web site relying on OSM.  or we would put the > wrongdoing on our side. > > Enforcing attribution requirements is not wrongdoing. It is something that we should do more, and this specific method is very friendly. Map is mostly

Re: [OSM-talk] #AttributionIsNotOptional experiment on OSM France tile servers

Mar 8, 2020, 20:26 by talk@openstreetmap.org: > > Mar 8, 2020, 12:12 by si...@poole.ch: > >> >> I would be very very wary of doing anything that deliberately defaces a >> web site without consulting with a local (to the country the web site >> is in) lawyer, particularly if the

Re: [OSM-talk] #AttributionIsNotOptional experiment on OSM France tile servers

Mar 8, 2020, 12:12 by si...@poole.ch: > > I would be very very wary of doing anything that deliberately defaces a > web site without consulting with a local (to the country the web site is > in) lawyer, particularly if the message implies wrong doing. > > Illegal use of OSM data

Re: [OSM-talk] #AttributionIsNotOptional experiment on OSM France tile servers

Mario Frasca writes: > I would say that 1 in 25 is low enough as not to be considered > "defacing" a web site.  what text have you used, concretely, which had > the impact you describe?  in my opinion the shortest, the better, and > I guess you did NOT use »It looks like this site forgot to put

Re: [OSM-talk] #AttributionIsNotOptional experiment on OSM France tile servers

On 08/03/2020 04:14, Christian Quest wrote: the most visible one is the moroco yellow page service, generating a little less than a million daily tile requests on our servers. On 08/03/2020 10:42, Mario Frasca wrote: what further steps does your team plan? for example with the above heavy

Re: [OSM-talk] #AttributionIsNotOptional experiment on OSM France tile servers

You could use the navigator user language preference for the language to use for the message.   Pierre Le dimanche 8 mars 2020 11 h 40 min 47 s UTC−4, Christian Quest a écrit : Le 08/03/2020 à 16:00, Mario Frasca a écrit : > well, it does look slightly invasive … That's the

Re: [OSM-talk] #AttributionIsNotOptional experiment on OSM France tile servers

Hi Michael and Christian, I don't know if there's any other way than going through imagemagick, if that's the only way, then sure it would cause extra work on (y)our servers.  if that's too much, let the server manager measure and decide. my approach was trying to find a solution to the

Re: [OSM-talk] #AttributionIsNotOptional experiment on OSM France tile servers

Le 08/03/2020 à 16:00, Mario Frasca a écrit : well, it does look slightly invasive … That's the goal... slightly invasive... and not time consuming for the tile server and myself. Please, don't forget who's wrong here. -- Christian Quest - OpenStreetMap France

Re: [OSM-talk] #AttributionIsNotOptional experiment on OSM France tile servers

Hi Mario, Am 08/03/2020 um 16.00 schrieb Mario Frasca: > well, it does look slightly invasive … I had imagined something like a > transparent text on top of the requested tile.  doing it the way you are > doing it, you are removing part of the underlying information. A transparent overlay

Re: [OSM-talk] #AttributionIsNotOptional experiment on OSM France tile servers

well, it does look slightly invasive … I had imagined something like a transparent text on top of the requested tile.  doing it the way you are doing it, you are removing part of the underlying information.  it is true that the user can zoom in or out, and the chance that the same are is also

Re: [OSM-talk] #AttributionIsNotOptional experiment on OSM France tile servers

Here are a few examples: http://www.ardennes-neige.be/ http://autogas-network.co.uk/ http://mapa.guadalajara.gob.mx/basura http://vivenda.hercesa.ro/ https://www.visitarnhem.com/routes/wandelroutes The reminder tiles is in available english and french:

Re: [OSM-talk] #AttributionIsNotOptional experiment on OSM France tile servers

On 08/03/2020 05:04, Yves wrote: Ps: would you share your nginx partial redirect, I may consider it for Opensnowmap tiles policy? On 08/03/2020 06:12, Simon Poole wrote: anything that deliberately defaces a web site On 08/03/2020 07:13, Christian Quest wrote: just 1 tile out of 25 very

Re: [OSM-talk] #AttributionIsNotOptional experiment on OSM France tile servers

To me, the most important in attribution is to make potential contributors aware of the project. So the overlap is not that small in this regard. Yves Le 8 mars 2020 12:12:48 GMT+01:00, Simon Poole a écrit : >Just for the record: > >Enforcing attribution for services that you are providing

Re: [OSM-talk] #AttributionIsNotOptional experiment on OSM France tile servers

Le 08/03/2020 à 12:12, Simon Poole a écrit : Just for the record: Enforcing attribution for services that you are providing directly (aka tiles in some form) only has a small overlap with the goals of the attribution guideline, and the avenues open to you depend on your ToUs / contracts

Re: [OSM-talk] #AttributionIsNotOptional experiment on OSM France tile servers

Just for the record: Enforcing attribution for services that you are providing directly (aka tiles in some form) only has a small overlap with the goals of the attribution guideline, and the avenues open to you depend on your ToUs / contracts with your users and the legal situation in the

Re: [OSM-talk] #AttributionIsNotOptional experiment on OSM France tile servers

This looks at first as a nuisance that could be perceived as a bad move, but the feedback you're receiving rather prove the contrary. Well done! Ps: would you share your nginx partial redirect, I may consider it for Opensnowmap tiles policy? Le 8 mars 2020 10:14:58 GMT+01:00, Christian Quest

[OSM-talk] #AttributionIsNotOptional experiment on OSM France tile servers

Here is a hort report on this experiment... I started a week ago by searching OSM France tile server logs for referer and checked manually if the map on the refering page was correctly attributed. This allowed me to create a short list of 20 entries of sites using the french styled tiles