I've been reading this list for a while, and hope it's the right place
to ask newbie questions.
As a beginner, I've been mapping local roads, cycle paths, footpaths and
things with Potlatch without any real problems. Usually, I've been
uploading gpx files from a Garmin 76 CSx.
But I can't
John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote:
The only requirement is that you attribute the data to OSM.
Liz ed...@billiau.net wrote:
In a manner suited to the medium you need to acknowledge the licence.
The stuff I've put onto my Garmin has OSM on the map page of
settings so that would
Has anyone had success using a GPS unit inside a metal railway carriage
to map a railway line?
I notice that parts of the main line between Sydney and Melbourne are
missing, eg:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=-34.7446lon=147.886zoom=14layers=B000FTF
I'd consider doing the trip on the XPT
Liz wrote:
I drew in railway line from landsat (hopefully that was marked as source) and
lined it up with crossings and bridges.
If you have better data, please move the railway.
I haven't managed to get a trace on any railway because I seem to be limited
to walk, bike, car, plane.
If
John Smith wrote:
On one of the wiki pages it talks about something like this with
European trains, and unless you get a GPS lock before boarding the
train you most likely won't get one at all, however once you have a
lock it's easier to keep it.
I've started using a amplified external
Nick Hocking wrote:
A while back I could download the zip file for NSW from osmaustralia.org
http://osmaustralia.org, unzip it rename the img file to gmapsupp.img,
copy it onto the Garmin Nuvi and I would have routable osm maps on the
Garmin,
Recently when I do this the maps are not
Nick Hocking wrote:
Thanks, I still don't know what I was doing wrong but I can now show
this to some people at work who are showing a lot of interest, in
openstreepmap, hence my other questions about navit and gosmore.
Using routable maps to suggest routes across town is a great way of
John Smith wrote:
I've marked one street as living street where pedestrians have more right
of way than cars:
http://osm.org/go/ueTQqmgH8--
Very well - I'll leave it as living_street.
John
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John Smith wrote:
Is that one of those turning circles with a grass/garden bed in the middle?
The one in Canberra is constructed like a normal roundabout (big
concrete slab centre, IIRC), except that there's townhouses in every
direction except for the entry/exit point.
John
John Smith wrote:
Are you talking about tiles being rendered? If that's the case you
just need to clear your browser cache.
Tiles being rendered is only part of the story.
I'm aware of caching at my end, and believe I've eliminated that as the
sole cause.
Let's say I add a road, upload the
cam_...@fastmail.fm wrote:
Also, what's the best thing to do when you've discovered that 2 ends of
the same road have slightly different spellings on their physical road
signs?
I've tried to tag the road as best I can
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/45369647
Do you think it'd be
Liz wrote:
I never noticed that anyone had changed Garry Owen that I had put in - I know
I'd tagged the road and ignored it from there.
It's a small world :)
John
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I should be there sometime during the Tour Down Under, if no-one else
gets the opportunity before then.
But a quick look around suggests there's a lot to be done all the way
from Renmark.
John
Liz wrote:
I've just put in some of Blanchetown SA
I believe it has a grid of streets but my
Liz wrote:
There is a lot of empty space in real life in that district.
True, but compare these for an example of what I mean:
http://www.whereis.com/sa/waikerie?id=21ADA5CC8AE6F4
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=-34.1803lon=140.017zoom=14layers=B000FTF
John
Liz wrote:
This Christmas Peter and I will be visiting Adelaide, so if we make one trip
via the Sturt we could map one town / village reasonably well.
Pre-plan and we'll have a virtual mapping party on the Sturt Highway.
If you zoom in on the whereis map, you'll see two roads whose names are
Liz wrote:
On Sat, 12 Dec 2009, John Henderson wrote:
without changing any of the track/cycleway/path stuff
mark a shared path as highway=cycleway
because then they are visible as cycleways to the renderer and to the router.
the presence of a painted line down the middle of the track
I've made a start on the daunting task of documenting the Hume and
Hovell Walking Track.
I've created a relation to cover the route:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?relation=308594
This track goes from Hume's Cooma Cottage just east of Yass all the
way to Albury.
Quite a bit of the route is on
Ross Scanlon wrote:
Should these already be highway=unclassified then. Or if they are
4wd_only=yes then they should be highway=track and tracktype=*.
Some maybe. But if I did survey them I'd like to do a thorough job, and
the state forest is a real rabbit warren of logging access tracks.
John Smith wrote:
It might be could to document such relations on the wiki so that if
someone else comes along later finishes it off rather than starting a
new relation.
I'd had the same thought, although I'd assumed it might be easy to
delete a relation after transferring the ways to
John Smith wrote:
Alternatively if these routes have route numbers we could do a custom
shield and have the shields show on the map similar to tourist routes.
Although I've noticed they've started to use picture based tourist
routes, rather than numbered.
Through Redcliffe in Qld they
John Smith wrote:
Taken any photos of it, or Google StreetView images?
Take a photo is the next thing to do. It's the two walkers with huge
hats at the bottom of:
http://www.lands.nsw.gov.au/_media/lands/pdf/recreation/P06_06_0036_H_and_H_Poster_Purple.pdf
John
John Smith wrote:
Have you emailed the Dept of Lands about art work? :)
Not yet. But I've e-mailed the track manager (who I met on the track
several years ago) about mapping it on OSM. His response was luke-warm,
and he's yet to respond to my follow-up e-mail.
I also intend asking him
John Smith wrote:
H
BP has 2 locations listed for the same address, one is express one
isn't, and I'm not sure which is correct, maybe BP has lost more
service stations? :)
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/3360844
I notice that both are tagged with:
Ross Scanlon wrote:
fuel:e10 = yes
Replaces 91 octane at lots of BP servos.
At least they have 95, 98 and lpg which suits me as the truck really does not
like e10.
Interesting. Personally, I use e10 in my '97 Pulsar almost always, even
though Nissan say not to. I've never had a
John Smith wrote:
I don't particularly mind which term we use, one that is the most
common in a region/commonly known would make the most sense.
I've heard both the term registered and licensed clubs... *shrug*
Anyone have a preference for a particular reason?
In my experience licensed
To me it seems an important aspect of OSM that its routable maps work
well. I had been using my Garmin 76CSx with OSM maps to check this
functionality.
Because the screen is too small for thorough hands-free checking, I've
just bought a Garmin Nuvi 1350. I'm finding that using this to direct
John Smith wrote:
Adding in postcodes and the BP data I've noticed a LOT of square
roundabouts...
The problem arises mainly with economically-drawn flared approaches to
roundabouts, as that term is used in
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:junction%3Droundabout
John
Ross Scanlon wrote:
It becomes a problem when you join an entry and exit flare to the one node,
which is incorrect anyway.
Well put.
John
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Roy Wallace wrote:
+1. A problem with the router requires a simple ROUTER fix. The router
just needs to be told that when entering a junction with a roundabout,
that also happens to have an exit, that exit counts as the first
exit.
I can just see the people at Garmin falling over themselves
Steve Bennett wrote:
Yeah, good work. Should the name be Bairnsdale Centrelink or just
Centrelink?
I'm all for putting town/suburb names in as well. One place where it
matters is looking up POIs on GPS units.
These are sorted by proximity to current location. And when using the
feature to
John Smith wrote:
Most ways can be assumed to be 2 lanes, so this is only needed if
there is more or less than 2 lanes, although tagging 2 lanes would at
least show it has been surveyed/mapped properly rather than not
knowing if the information is missing.
Except when oneway=yes, of course -
Liz wrote:
This am we'll head out along the Mallee, put some more streets in Manangatang
and return next week via the Sturt and put some streets in Waikerie.
If you're taking your bike, the bike path between Renmark and Paringa is
nice and is missing from OSM.
I'm still hoping to be
ed...@billiau.net wrote:
No bikes this trip - but we did note the path when last in Renmark
Now will it be a cycleway with walkers allowed?
It is indeed - or at least that's how I'd tag it. I cycled and walked
it 2 TDUs ago (before my OSM days).
John
ed...@billiau.net wrote:
No bikes this trip - but we did note the path when last in Renmark
Now will it be a cycleway with walkers allowed?
It is indeed - or at least that's how I'd tag it. I cycled and walked
it 2 TDUs ago (before my OSM days).
John
On 7 Oct 09, I wrote:
Has anyone had success using a GPS unit inside a metal railway carriage
to map a railway line?
I notice that parts of the main line between Sydney and Melbourne are
missing, eg:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=-34.7446lon=147.886zoom=14layers=B000FTF
I note that
ed...@billiau.net wrote:
I've had another look at the data and Portrush Road is split, with some
feeder lanes drawn in. Not sure which of these confuses the router now
(very difficult to debug and drive the car down that hill)
I'm not clear what you're doing. Are you coming down the motorway
ed...@billiau.net wrote:
I've had another look at the data and Portrush Road is split, with some
feeder lanes drawn in. Not sure which of these confuses the router now
(very difficult to debug and drive the car down that hill)
It's not obvious if it could adversely affect routing, but I see
Steve Bennett wrote:
I also just tried out routing on my new Garmin Oregon 550...awesome. I
was on cycling Churchill Park in Melbourne's east and camping the night.
The gps, using only osm data, found me some really interesting tracks
that I wouldn't have thought of on my own. Someone's
John Smith wrote:
Your post was completely useless, why didn't you just post a bug
instead of trying to make other people do it?
Because some of us are yet to build the confidence for such action?
John
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Roy Wallace wrote:
Anyone know what the deal is with this?:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/316607432
Probably should be the nearby rest area.
I've surveyed a few campsites that had a similar attribution, and had to
move them quite a distance.
EG, when I surveyed Lowden Forest Park
Richard Colless wrote:
I was trying out the latest routable OSM maps, and came across a couple
of odd items. One was a roundabout where the Etrex told me to go round
it in the wrong direction - anti-clockwise. It's the only one that gave
me the wrong direction.
I find it a bit odd that
Roy Wallace wrote:
Anyone know what the deal is with this?:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/316607432
Here's another one that seems out by hundreds of metres to me, and from
the same source:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/316590785
Although it's been a while since I camped
Geoff wrote:
Hello
I am slowly mapping parts of Warragul and cycled the shared use path in
Linear park. The cycles track runs under the Bairnsdale line railway at
one point and I was wondering how to map this. I thought about making
two points on the way a bridge but JOSM would not allow
I wrote:
As a relative newcomer myself, it's occurred to me that you might be
trying constructing a bridge over the cycle path by modifying that path.
But you'd need to modify the railway line to make a bridge over the path.
In that case, tag a section of line with:
bridge=yes
Steve Bennett wrote:
Also, what about weird dinky little strets you sometimes get in suburbia
that are paved with red bricks or something equally creative, but are
also the primary means of access to houses? Residential or service?
highway=living_street if signage says that pedestrians have
I've wondered the same thing myself.
My thought is that a user-defined amenity tag might be the most
appropriate, given the lack of anything already defined.
amenity=logbook
seems simple and meaningful to me. Log books are frequently used to
give and to update intentions.
Maybe it could be
As you say, I and others have been using the node tag
highway=turning_circle for this.
It seems to neatly fit the bill:
A turning circle is a rounded, widened area usually, but not
necessarily, at the end of a road to facilitate easier turning of a
vehicle.
John
Jim Croft wrote:
Many of
Richard Colless wrote:
The trip to Timor Caves went well - now have tourist POI's for four of
the caves, although it's a brave tourist that will use them.
Also managed to survey most of the streets of Murrurundi, NSW.
During this job, I noticed some interesting POI's. Just North of
I'm unclear about some issues concerning copyright. I'd like to put up
a couple of scenarios and get opinions.
Let's say that many roads in a town are mapped but unnamed in OSM. And
street signs are missing.
I go to the local tourist information place and start asking for names.
They give
Steve Bennett wrote:
On Mon, Jan 4, 2010 at 10:16 AM, John Henderson snow...@gmx.com
mailto:snow...@gmx.com wrote:
I'm unclear about some issues concerning copyright. I'd like to put up
a couple of scenarios and get opinions.
Let's say that many roads in a town are mapped
Liz wrote:
We've considered putting L plates on the car to explain our erratic driving
habits - stopping suddenly at intersections, taking all the dead ends and
turning at the ends, doing loops around roundabouts and generally going slow.
I've printed some business cards with the OSM logo,
John Smith wrote:
2010/1/5 John Henderson snow...@gmx.com:
Liz wrote:
We've considered putting L plates on the car to explain our erratic driving
habits - stopping suddenly at intersections, taking all the dead ends and
turning at the ends, doing loops around roundabouts and generally going
Liz wrote:
On Sun, 3 Jan 2010, John Smith wrote:
It also didn't
appear on my Garmin when I approached it.
No idea how to get these show up on garmin's, although I'm guessing as
some kind of POI that will give you warnings when you are coming close
to them.
They are in a binary file which
Elizabeth Dodd wrote:
The hassle with those custom POIs is needing the windows stuff to upload them.
Otherwise making the list from OSM data is a programming job.
I haven't found the need to load POIs from OSM into either of my Garmin
units (Nuvi 1250 and PGSmap 76 CSx) yet.
The OSM maps in
John Smith wrote:
2010/1/5 John Henderson snow...@gmx.com:
The OSM maps in Garmin format already fully integrate the POIs.
But do they give you proximity warnings?
No, I realised that fully was a mistake after I sent that.
What I should have said is that OSM POIs all come up under Points
John Smith wrote:
2010/1/5 Richard Colless fire...@ar.com.au:
The issue of copying names from a street directory is very similar. The
publishers of the directory hold copyright over the graphic layout of the
map, but they cannot hold copyright over the street names themselves. Those
That's
Steve Bennett wrote:
I'll be adding the Overland Track in February
Enjoy. I first walked that in February, 41 years ago.
I grew a beard on that trip and still have it - never shaved since :)
John
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David Murn wrote:
One that amuses me often, is between Canberra and Batemans Bay. Theres
a small rural street which is shown as 'Black Sally Lane' on both
google, whereis and my Navman GPS, however OSM shows the name printed on
the street sign, which is 'Black Sallee Lane'.
Both are accepted
David Murn wrote:
Im fairly sure ACT law doesnt allow riding on footpaths, only designated
bicycle paths.
All footpaths are shared paths (foot and bicycle traffic) in the ACT.
John
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I notice that multi-values can be used with some tags. For example, a
road with two names (eg, local name and highway name) can have both
names listed in the name tag separated by a semi-colon.
Can the same trick be used generally?
The Bicentennial National Trail is primarily a horse route.
John Smith wrote:
2010/1/7 John Henderson snow...@gmx.com:
I notice that multi-values can be used with some tags. For example, a
road with two names (eg, local name and highway name) can have both
names listed in the name tag separated by a semi-colon.
Actually we are trying to reduce
John Smith wrote:
2010/1/8 John Henderson snow...@gmx.com:
How might I use a relation to generate multiple route tags (given that
route tags are already within a relation)?
Just duplicate the relation.
I'd considered that, but thought it:
1) lacked elegance, and
2) conveyed the false
Steve Bennett wrote:
Hmm, if route=hiking is the standard syntax, that looks pretty
defective - extremely limiting. Is there some multi-modal route type?
Afaik, the whole BNT is supposed to be horseable, and sections of it are
mtb-able. But there are big sections in the alps that are a
Nick Hocking wrote:
I notice someone's filled in lots of Waikerie too.
John H
My bits of this event are now edited in.
I added some roads to Euston, mapped Paringa and then nearly finished
Renmark.
I eventually got sick of driving all those numerous dirt laneways (all
alike) and left
Liz wrote:
are intending to walk this route?
I've cycled a fair proportion of its mate the Mawson and its a long way - but
the Heysen is even longer
I'd dearly like to (and I bought the book), but it's not practical for
me to do so.
I walked a lot of it that's south of the Barossa when I
John Smith wrote:
You can simply load a small section of the route, then in JOSM right
click on the route and download members and then export the layer as
GPX...
Thanks John - I'd missed that despite looking around in JOSM.
I guess a way to allow unsophisticated users to load routes into
John Smith wrote:
Do you have an example output file of what you need?
Apparently I was over-optimistic about using the gpx file to create a route.
The Garmin MapSource program doesn't handle the Heysen Trail gpx data
very well. It has the route jumping huge distances between far away
nodes
John Smith wrote:
Do you have any files that show routes on garmin devices properly?
OK, I've created a couple of routes by manually assembling a few points
using the two programs.
And I see immediately that named waypoints are required. Not the
trackpoints I'm more familiar with. The
John Smith wrote:
This is a very quick hack, the points aren't ordered properly, so the
route may work, but still be screwy...
Thanks for that John. I appreciate your effort.
I've saved those as gpx files.
I've certainly got some more research to do on how these route files
work.
John Smith wrote:
Does anyone know of a complete route that we can use for testing
against? Or at least one without large gaps between member ways...
The HHWT has only one gap, at Lake Burrinjuck:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/308594
Lots of ways, including 3 roundabouts in
John Smith wrote:
The roundabouts are ok, it's when the track goes in multiple
directions that things fall over. Unless you tell it not to link
anything 1km or so apart, then it looks fine.
See if this works for you at all...
John Smith wrote:
2010/1/8 John Henderson snow...@gmx.com:
John Smith wrote:
2010/1/8 John Henderson snow...@gmx.com:
How might I use a relation to generate multiple route tags (given that
route tags are already within a relation)?
Just duplicate the relation.
I'd considered
John Smith wrote:
2010/1/6 John Henderson snow...@gmx.com:
I've just set myself up with a login to the OSM wiki. Should I simply
refer to the above relation IDs and names in the wiki under Bush
Walking and Cycling Tracks?
I'd link to the relations, not just mention the ID numbers,
http
Nick Hocking wrote:
Well done John.
You beat me to the new Casey streets by a few hours. OK, the next
opportunity, I think, will be some new streets in Forde, off Zakharov
Avenue. The area seems to be very finished, including street signs and I
suspect that in one or two weeks they
Liz wrote:
On Mon, 18 Jan 2010, John Henderson wrote:
I've been considering sneaking in on my MTB to make a start on Crace,
but there's always workmen about.
Even on Sundays?
Absolutely!
John H
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Steve Bennett wrote:
I would suggest tagging the way leisure=slipway. If you need to
break the current specification to do so, then make a note on the wiki
page. Tagging it highway=service seems wrong. Service roads do not
go underwater...
The tagging system is supposed to be flexible and
Stephen Hope wrote:
A service road can lead to a boat ramp. But the boat ramp itself is
not a point, it's a line. It's usually pretty clear where the ramp
starts - where it ends is usually harder to find unless you go wading.
Don't worry if it doesn't currently render. Record it in the
David Murn wrote:
I think slipway is the British term. From the leisure=slipway wiki
page:
Yes, I'm happy now that they're using the term to apply to both types of
boat launching facility.
Anyhow, I've changed the tagging to show highway=service to the
approximate high water mark, then
Mark Pulley wrote:
I'm currently doing some edits in Armidale (NSW) following my trip
there for Christmas. Many of the streets and surrounding roads are
labelled lanes=1. Some of these are clearly wrong, as they have a
painted line in the middle (lanes=2) - I will be changing these, but
Sam Couter wrote:
There's no indication of how to map asymmetrical roads, Liz's suggestion
of using 1/2 or 3/2 amuses me.
As a separate issue, how to map roads with differing numbers of lanes,
perhaps based on time? Pacific Highway at Turramurra is an example, I
think the Spit Bridge in
I wrote:
I'll be downloading the Oceania file from
http://download.geofabrik.de/osm/australia-oceania.osm.bz2 tomorrow
morning and making a new Garmin map from it. I'll report back on the
status of the coastline anomaly.
The problem still exists.
My Nuvi 1350 lets me save screenshots.
John Kitchener wrote:
Here's how it renders on an Oregon 300
http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/2718/oregon300.jpg
Using a different mkgmap style file and TYP file presumably to
generate the gmapsupp.img file. They're highly configurable. I've
started experimenting with them for the
John Smith wrote:
This came up on the talk list:
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2010-January/047660.html
Thanks John. Later today I hope to get a chance to try some of those
ideas out.
I'll post back any findings.
John H
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I wrote:
Later today I hope to get a chance to try some of those ideas out.
I'll post back any findings.
OK, I'm the first to admit I'm operating outside my knowledge comfort
zone here. But I've tried adding:
--generate-sea=polygons,no-sea-sectors,close-gaps=2000
to the mkgmap
The thread on unintentional damage is timely.
I find I may have deleted a way.
I was cleaning up duplicated ways, and may have deleted too much in JOSM
and then saved the result.
I suspect that the gap in the foot track at this location might be my
doing:
Arie Paap wrote:
On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 11:32 AM, John Henderson snow...@gmx.com wrote:
The thread on unintentional damage is timely.
I find I may have deleted a way.
I was cleaning up duplicated ways, and may have deleted too much in JOSM
and then saved the result.
I suspect that the gap
John Smith wrote:
You don't need to delete something to see if there is a way
underneath, just select the mid point and shift it on the top way,
then hit ctrl+z if you need to undo the point creation/removal.
An excellent point, and a much neater way of managing things.
I've finished
Roy Wallace wrote:
I use name=Woolworths for Woolworths petrol stations. Have never used
the operator=* tag - should I?
I haven't seen any difference to the rendering with or without the
operator tag.
What I do find useful is the inclusion of a place name when looking at
the list of outlets
I found that the Cape to Cape Track between Cape Naturaliste and Cape
Leeuwin in south-west WA had already been mapped.
I've added a route relation which gathers up the parts and added it to
the know relations in the wiki under Bush Walking and Cycling Tracks.
In a day or two, it should render
I wrote:
By parity of reasoning, should a cycleway which crosses a state border
be regarded national? Like the one which crosses from Canberra (ACT)
into Queanbeyan (NSW) on this bridge:
http://www.osm.org/?lat=-35.343726lon=149.213133
Best put a zoom onto that:
Richard Colless wrote:
Not so, John. We regularly shop at Woolworths, and when our grocery bill
(or LiquorLand purchase) is more than $30, we get a fuel discount
voucher printed on the bottom of the docket. We don't use loyalty cards/
As do I if I forget to have my card scanned, of course.
Craig Feuerherdt wrote:
I agree that the interface on could be better on http://www.osmfuel.org/
seems strange to me why they use google maps as background!? But that is
definitely off-topic!
I'm definitely seeing an OSM map, with detail I've added recently.
But service station sites are a
John Smith wrote:
I've cc'd the contact email on this email, it doesn't look like the
locations update very often or at all to me either. There should be a
lot more locations now that some bulk imports have occurred.
I e-mailed them yesterday, asking if/how we could add more fuel types,
like
John Smith wrote:
Just click on the location a couple of times and there is a list box
where you can add fuel types.
Maybe I'm missing something, but there's ethanol and e85. No e10,
and no way I can see to add it.
I've already added octane_91 to the servos in my area.
John H
Craig Feuerherdt wrote:
The underlying map in OSM Fuel is definitely Google.
Compare http://www.osmfuel.org/?lat=-36.73lon=144.29
http://www.osmfuel.org/?lat=-36.73lon=144.29 with the same area in
OSM - http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=-36.7336lon=144.2994zoom=13
John Smith wrote:
I was guessing ethanol = e10
I take ethanol as meaning e100 (like what's available in Brazil).
I'm not sure that adding information there gets uploaded back to OSM
if they don't keep their database of locations updated.
I assumed it doesn't. But adding octane_91 (which is
John Smith wrote:
On 9 February 2010 10:56, John Henderson snow...@gmx.com wrote:
I take ethanol as meaning e100 (like what's available in Brazil).
It doesn't explicitly state one way or the other on the wiki:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Fuel
Also it's against the laws
John Smith wrote:
As per a previous email, the author has offered to send me a copy of
his code, not sure that I'll be able to do much with it since it's in
python, but ya never know.
Well I've got half-way through Learning Python by Mark Lutz since I
retired.
Ideally the fuels shown
Arie Paap wrote:
I'm making some progress fixing up Perth suburb boundaries - honestly
I'm finding it painful to untangle some of the changes, but I'm
getting there. Looking further South I came across the relation for
Burekup which was missing some of it's boundaries. OK, I think, I'll
John Smith wrote:
That was cached, I forced the server to regenerate the tile and it no
longer shows that much blue.
Perth's the one I hadn't tried regenerating reloading.
Any thoughts on the other two, further south?
John H
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