RE: [Techno-Chat]: Note Takers and Laptops

[David Griffith]

I think people use a variety of techniques.
I have not got one of these machines but as I understand it  from discussions 
on other lists you can use the FN key with the Number row on the keyboard to 
simulate  a physical function key press, also you can apparently navigate to 
the appropriate area of the Touch Bar by feeling the number row and then 
lifting your finger from the number row key to the Touch Bar above.

But yes you can get spoken feedback from the Touch Bar.

If you are to get a machine I would 
1. Read a quite good review of the pros and cons of using the touch Bar on 
Apple Vis.
2. Listen to David Woodbridge's Podcast on using the Touch Bar. From memory 
though he does not demonstrate the Function key plus Number row workaround 
which I hope stil exists.

For me I think there are some unresolved issues.
1. Using the Touch Bar with Windows in either VMWare  Fusion or Boot Camp is 
apparently a non- starter.
I think there were issues in using Recovery Console - for example using VO F2 
F2 to bring up window chooser.
The recommended workaround for Voiceover users is to have a standard USB  
keyboard available for use with Recovery Console.

All this is second hand and not from personal experience so the situation may 
have changed/improved since I observed these reported issues.


David Griffith.



-Original Message-
From: Dane Trethowan [mailto:grtd...@internode.on.net] 
Sent: 28 June 2017 16:29
To: techno-chat@techno-chat.net
Subject: [Techno-Chat]: Note Takers and Laptops

On the subject of Note Takers and Laptops, My next computer - if all goes well 
at the end of the year - will be a MacBook.
I hear the MacBook has done away with the row of function keys replacing them 
with a touch strip so how does this go with Voiceover.
I mean if you want to press a function key do you slide your finger along the 
strip till you hear the key you want and then double-tap? Does the bar offer 
any other gestures or customisations?

> On 29 Jun 2017, at 1:16 am, Gordon Smith  wrote:
> 
> I can see advantages and disadvantages to both approaches. So I guess it’s 
> more or less horses for courses.
> 
> Was a time in the not so very long ago that Would have said no to any Braille 
> note taker at all. But now, having used them extensively for quite a long 
> time, I’ve changed my views. Certainly see the advantage to using main stream 
> hardware right down the line. But I have experienced, (and that is the crux 
> of the matter)both approaches. As I will readily admit, I was very much in 
> line with the BrailleBack approach and that was an end to it. But now, well, 
> as I said, speaking from experience, not just hypothesis, I see some definite 
> merit to using accessible devices. After all, these new note takers such as 
> the Touch and the Polaris, like them or loathe them, can be said to be main 
> stream technologies in themselves. Why do I say this? Simple, that’s what 
> they are! They are both Google approved, they both run Android as their base 
> operating systems. In the case of the Polaris, just as with the Touch, I 
> believe you can turn off the accessible operating system by pressing the home 
> button three times quickly. That is a toggle, so you can enable or disable it 
> at will. Once disabled, the self same device will run natively in Android 
> mode, and you can install TalkBack and BrailleBack for use in this mode. You 
> just need to remember not to have them enabled at start-up or you’ll hit real 
> issues.
> 
> Then again, along comes the ElBraille. A totally different approach, but 
> again I believe there’s much to be said for it. I am saving to buy one just 
> as soon as I can.
> 
> =
> 
> My compliments and kindest regards
> Gordon Smith:
> 
> 
> Accessibility & Information Technology Support Specialist..
> 
>  Contact:
> 
> • UK Geographic – +44(0) 1642 688095
> • UKFree Phone – 0800 8620538
> • UK Mobile – +44 (0) 7907 823971
> 
> • Australia Geographic – +61 38 82059300 • US Geographic – +1 646 
> 9151493Mobile/S
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On 25 Jun 2017, at 18:47, Dane Trethowan  wrote:
>> 
>> You're right, you're nog to get the same level of convenience using a Mobile 
>> device with a Braille display, you're going to get an even better level of 
>> convenience not to mention an even better level of flexibility.
>> 
>> Yep, you have to download the Brailleback App from Google Play Store and 
>> enable that App before the Braille Display will be acknowledge.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 26/06/2017 3:36 AM, Gordon Smith wrote:
>>> That is an option, yes. But you’re not going to get quite the same level of 
>>> convenience doing things that way. I am also given to understand, and I 
>>> haven’t checked this, that you need to use BrailleBack with the Polaris to 
>>> control and interface with a phone. With the Touch, that level of 
>>> 

RE: [Techno-Chat]: Note Takers and Laptops

[Debbie Yuille]

Hi Dane

If you can see if you are able to get to the apple store in Highpoint and try 
one out.

Debbie

-Original Message-
From: Dane Trethowan [mailto:grtd...@internode.on.net] 
Sent: Thursday, 29 June 2017 4:58 AM
To: Techno-Chat ... Technology Enthusiasm! 
Subject: Re: [Techno-Chat]: Note Takers and Laptops

Thanks very much for the information.
There’s plenty of time between now and then - won’t be making a move to a new 
Notebook etc until December -, you’ve given me both plenty to research and 
plenty to think about.

> On 29 Jun 2017, at 4:20 am, David Griffith  wrote:
> 
> I think people use a variety of techniques.
> I have not got one of these machines but as I understand it  from discussions 
> on other lists you can use the FN key with the Number row on the keyboard to 
> simulate  a physical function key press, also you can apparently navigate to 
> the appropriate area of the Touch Bar by feeling the number row and then 
> lifting your finger from the number row key to the Touch Bar above.
> 
> But yes you can get spoken feedback from the Touch Bar.
> 
> If you are to get a machine I would
> 1. Read a quite good review of the pros and cons of using the touch Bar on 
> Apple Vis.
> 2. Listen to David Woodbridge's Podcast on using the Touch Bar. From memory 
> though he does not demonstrate the Function key plus Number row workaround 
> which I hope stil exists.
> 
> For me I think there are some unresolved issues.
> 1. Using the Touch Bar with Windows in either VMWare  Fusion or Boot Camp is 
> apparently a non- starter.
> I think there were issues in using Recovery Console - for example using VO F2 
> F2 to bring up window chooser.
> The recommended workaround for Voiceover users is to have a standard USB  
> keyboard available for use with Recovery Console.
> 
> All this is second hand and not from personal experience so the situation may 
> have changed/improved since I observed these reported issues.
> 
> 
> David Griffith.
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Dane Trethowan [mailto:grtd...@internode.on.net]
> Sent: 28 June 2017 16:29
> To: techno-chat@techno-chat.net
> Subject: [Techno-Chat]: Note Takers and Laptops
> 
> On the subject of Note Takers and Laptops, My next computer - if all goes 
> well at the end of the year - will be a MacBook.
> I hear the MacBook has done away with the row of function keys replacing them 
> with a touch strip so how does this go with Voiceover.
> I mean if you want to press a function key do you slide your finger along the 
> strip till you hear the key you want and then double-tap? Does the bar offer 
> any other gestures or customisations?
> 
>> On 29 Jun 2017, at 1:16 am, Gordon Smith  wrote:
>> 
>> I can see advantages and disadvantages to both approaches. So I guess it’s 
>> more or less horses for courses.
>> 
>> Was a time in the not so very long ago that Would have said no to any 
>> Braille note taker at all. But now, having used them extensively for quite a 
>> long time, I’ve changed my views. Certainly see the advantage to using main 
>> stream hardware right down the line. But I have experienced, (and that is 
>> the crux of the matter)both approaches. As I will readily admit, I was very 
>> much in line with the BrailleBack approach and that was an end to it. But 
>> now, well, as I said, speaking from experience, not just hypothesis, I see 
>> some definite merit to using accessible devices. After all, these new note 
>> takers such as the Touch and the Polaris, like them or loathe them, can be 
>> said to be main stream technologies in themselves. Why do I say this? 
>> Simple, that’s what they are! They are both Google approved, they both run 
>> Android as their base operating systems. In the case of the Polaris, just as 
>> with the Touch, I believe you can turn off the accessible operating system 
>> by pressing the home button three times quickly. That is a toggle, so you 
>> can enable or disable it at will. Once disabled, the self same device will 
>> run natively in Android mode, and you can install TalkBack and BrailleBack 
>> for use in this mode. You just need to remember not to have them enabled at 
>> start-up or you’ll hit real issues.
>> 
>> Then again, along comes the ElBraille. A totally different approach, but 
>> again I believe there’s much to be said for it. I am saving to buy one just 
>> as soon as I can.
>> 
>> =
>> 
>> My compliments and kindest regards
>> Gordon Smith:
>> 
>> 
>> Accessibility & Information Technology Support Specialist..
>> 
>> Contact:
>> 
>> • UK Geographic – +44(0) 1642 688095
>> • UKFree Phone – 0800 8620538
>> • UK Mobile – +44 (0) 7907 823971
>> 
>> • Australia Geographic – +61 38 82059300 • US Geographic – +1 646 
>> 9151493Mobile/S
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 25 Jun 2017, at 18:47, Dane Trethowan 

RE: [Techno-Chat]: iMac recovery utility with Voiceover

[David Griffith]

This works for me in OS but not in recovery Console which is where the problem 
is.

David Griffith

-Original Message-
From: Gordon Smith [mailto:gor...@mac-access.net] 
Sent: 28 June 2017 16:05
To: Techno-Chat ... Technology Enthusiasm!
Subject: Re: [Techno-Chat]: iMac recovery utility with Voiceover

You can turn the volume up. Press VO+Command+right arrow until you hear volume. 
Then press the same modifier keys plus up arrow instead of right arrow. Job 
done.

That will all change soon as it happens.

=

My compliments and kindest regards
Gordon Smith:


Accessibility & Information Technology Support Specialist..

  Contact:

• UK Geographic – +44(0) 1642 688095
• UKFree Phone – 0800 8620538
• UK Mobile – +44 (0) 7907 823971

• Australia Geographic – +61 38 82059300
• US Geographic – +1 646 9151493Mobile/S





> On 27 Jun 2017, at 03:03, Dane Trethowan  wrote:
> 
> Hi!
> 
> I'm currently in the middle of reinstalling Mac OS on my iMac, I've been 
> having an issue with Sound Forge for Mac hwich has prevented me from entering 
> any activation information for the application, every time I've tried to 
> enter information - or even run the Application I get a "Registration Error" 
> and the software quits so perhaps the way around this is a full and complete 
> reinstall of everything from the ground up bypassing the Mac Migration Wizard 
> -.
> 
> The whole procedure will be straight forward but the main thing that's 
> irritating me right now is the incredibly low audio volume of Voiceover 
> whilst in the recovery utility so if anyone knows if its possible to raise 
> the volume here then I'd really like to hear about it, I suspect that I'll 
> just have to struggle on though.
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> **
> "Live each day as if you were goiing to die tomorrow, learn each day as if 
> you were going to live forever"
> 
> --
> 
> This post, like all posts to the Techno Chat E-Mail group has been scanned by 
> our server-side antivirus/malware solution. This should not, however, be 
> viewed as a substitution for your own security strategy. We assume no 
> culpability whatever, implicit or otherwise, for any compromise to your 
> systems as a result of opening any post to this group. Suffice it to say that 
> we remain vigilant within the boundaries of reason. We strongly urge you to 
> do likewise! You have been warned!!!
> 
> You can find an RSS listing of all posts to this group at:
> 
> 
> To encourage your friends to join this group, first accept our thanks for 
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> 


--

This post, like all posts to the Techno Chat E-Mail group has been scanned by 
our server-side antivirus/malware solution. This should not, however, be viewed 
as a substitution for your own security strategy. We assume no culpability 
whatever, implicit or otherwise, for any compromise to your systems as a result 
of opening any post to this group. Suffice it to say that we remain vigilant 
within the boundaries of reason. We strongly urge you to do likewise! You have 
been warned!!!

You can find an RSS listing of all posts to this group at:


To encourage your friends to join this group, first accept our thanks for 
spreading the word. Then, have them send a message to the list processing 
engine at:

To toggle on/off Digest (batch) mode for this group, please send a blank 
message to:

To leave the group, please send a blank message to:
.

To contact the support address for this group, please write to:
supp...@techno-chat.net>

--

Re: [Techno-Chat]: iMac recovery utility with Voiceover

[Gordon Smith]

You can turn the volume up. Press VO+Command+right arrow until you hear volume. 
Then press the same modifier keys plus up arrow instead of right arrow. Job 
done.

That will all change soon as it happens.

=

My compliments and kindest regards
Gordon Smith:


Accessibility & Information Technology Support Specialist..

  Contact:

• UK Geographic – +44(0) 1642 688095
• UKFree Phone – 0800 8620538
• UK Mobile – +44 (0) 7907 823971

• Australia Geographic – +61 38 82059300
• US Geographic – +1 646 9151493Mobile/S





> On 27 Jun 2017, at 03:03, Dane Trethowan  wrote:
> 
> Hi!
> 
> I'm currently in the middle of reinstalling Mac OS on my iMac, I've been 
> having an issue with Sound Forge for Mac hwich has prevented me from entering 
> any activation information for the application, every time I've tried to 
> enter information - or even run the Application I get a "Registration Error" 
> and the software quits so perhaps the way around this is a full and complete 
> reinstall of everything from the ground up bypassing the Mac Migration Wizard 
> -.
> 
> The whole procedure will be straight forward but the main thing that's 
> irritating me right now is the incredibly low audio volume of Voiceover 
> whilst in the recovery utility so if anyone knows if its possible to raise 
> the volume here then I'd really like to hear about it, I suspect that I'll 
> just have to struggle on though.
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> **
> "Live each day as if you were goiing to die tomorrow, learn each day as if 
> you were going to live forever"
> 
> --
> 
> This post, like all posts to the Techno Chat E-Mail group has been scanned by 
> our server-side antivirus/malware solution. This should not, however, be 
> viewed as a substitution for your own security strategy. We assume no 
> culpability whatever, implicit or otherwise, for any compromise to your 
> systems as a result of opening any post to this group. Suffice it to say that 
> we remain vigilant within the boundaries of reason. We strongly urge you to 
> do likewise! You have been warned!!!
> 
> You can find an RSS listing of all posts to this group at:
> 
> 
> To encourage your friends to join this group, first accept our thanks for 
> spreading the word. Then, have them send a message to the list processing 
> engine at:
> 
> To toggle on/off Digest (batch) mode for this group, please send a blank 
> message to:
> 
> To leave the group, please send a blank message to:
> .
> 
> To contact the support address for this group, please write to:
> supp...@techno-chat.net>
> 
> --
> 



smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature

Re: [Techno-Chat]: Braille Sense Polaris: First Impressions

[Gordon Smith]

I can see advantages and disadvantages to both approaches. So I guess it’s more 
or less horses for courses.

Was a time in the not so very long ago that Would have said no to any Braille 
note taker at all. But now, having used them extensively for quite a long time, 
I’ve changed my views. Certainly see the advantage to using main stream 
hardware right down the line. But I have experienced, (and that is the crux of 
the matter)both approaches. As I will readily admit, I was very much in line 
with the BrailleBack approach and that was an end to it. But now, well, as I 
said, speaking from experience, not just hypothesis, I see some definite merit 
to using accessible devices. After all, these new note takers such as the Touch 
and the Polaris, like them or loathe them, can be said to be main stream 
technologies in themselves. Why do I say this? Simple, that’s what they are! 
They are both Google approved, they both run Android as their base operating 
systems. In the case of the Polaris, just as with the Touch, I believe you can 
turn off the accessible operating system by pressing the home button three 
times quickly. That is a toggle, so you can enable or disable it at will. Once 
disabled, the self same device will run natively in Android mode, and you can 
install TalkBack and BrailleBack for use in this mode. You just need to 
remember not to have them enabled at start-up or you’ll hit real issues.

Then again, along comes the ElBraille. A totally different approach, but again 
I believe there’s much to be said for it. I am saving to buy one just as soon 
as I can.

=

My compliments and kindest regards
Gordon Smith:


Accessibility & Information Technology Support Specialist..

  Contact:

• UK Geographic – +44(0) 1642 688095
• UKFree Phone – 0800 8620538
• UK Mobile – +44 (0) 7907 823971

• Australia Geographic – +61 38 82059300
• US Geographic – +1 646 9151493Mobile/S





> On 25 Jun 2017, at 18:47, Dane Trethowan  wrote:
> 
> You're right, you're nog to get the same level of convenience using a Mobile 
> device with a Braille display, you're going to get an even better level of 
> convenience not to mention an even better level of flexibility.
> 
> Yep, you have to download the Brailleback App from Google Play Store and 
> enable that App before the Braille Display will be acknowledge.
> 
> 
> 
> On 26/06/2017 3:36 AM, Gordon Smith wrote:
>> That is an option, yes. But you’re not going to get quite the same level of 
>> convenience doing things that way. I am also given to understand, and I 
>> haven’t checked this, that you need to use BrailleBack with the Polaris to 
>> control and interface with a phone. With the Touch, that level of 
>> connectivity is in-built to KeySoft.
>> 
>> 
>>> On 25 Jun 2017, at 17:30, Dane Trethowan  wrote:
>>> 
>>> And a forth choice actually, a mobile phone or tablet with a Braille 
>>> display.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 26/06/2017 12:26 AM, Gordon Smith wrote:
 Yes, I totally agree about keyboard. All I was pointing out was that the 
 option, and that’s the key word, “Option” doesn’t exist.
 
 That said, I do agree that the Polaris is a very nice device and has 
 excellent hardware specs. When it comes to note takers, however, we now 
 have 3 choices. There’s the HumanWare one, (which I like, and use a lot), 
 the Braille Sense Polaris, which I tried the other day, which I’m sure I 
 would come to like a lot if I had the opportunity to use it extensively, 
 and the ElBraille. I plan to buy an ElBraille for my business needs as tat 
 would be the best all-round device for me. I do feel that both Hims and 
 HumanWare kind of missed the boat a bit by not including an. Option for 
 mobile communications. That is one area which EliTech Group has hit a 
 winning note in my opinion.
 
 All that said, were there an upgrade option on my Braille Sense U2, I 
 would seriously consider that option.
 
 
> On 24 Jun 2017, at 04:05, Debbie Yuille  
> wrote:
> 
> But then you would  most likely have a fold down keyboard that is noisy 
> like the touch's keyboard. The Polaris' keyboard is super quiet and in my 
> opinion, a lot quicker to type on than using touch braille. That is why I 
> prefer the Polaris. I like that we now have choice with our notetakers, 
> one that's designed for touch braille and one that is designed for people 
> who want a quiet and fast braille keyboard.
> 
> Debbie
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Gordon Smith [mailto:gor...@mac-access.net]
> Sent: Saturday, 24 June 2017 1:42 AM
> To: Techno-Chat ... Technology Enthusiasm! 
> Subject: Re: [Techno-Chat]: Braille Sense Polaris: First Impressions
> 
> That 

[Techno-Chat]: Note Takers and Laptops

[Dane Trethowan]

On the subject of Note Takers and Laptops,
My next computer - if all goes well at the end of the year - will be a MacBook.
I hear the MacBook has done away with the row of function keys replacing them 
with a touch strip so how does this go with Voiceover.
I mean if you want to press a function key do you slide your finger along the 
strip till you hear the key you want and then double-tap? Does the bar offer 
any other gestures or customisations?

> On 29 Jun 2017, at 1:16 am, Gordon Smith  wrote:
> 
> I can see advantages and disadvantages to both approaches. So I guess it’s 
> more or less horses for courses.
> 
> Was a time in the not so very long ago that Would have said no to any Braille 
> note taker at all. But now, having used them extensively for quite a long 
> time, I’ve changed my views. Certainly see the advantage to using main stream 
> hardware right down the line. But I have experienced, (and that is the crux 
> of the matter)both approaches. As I will readily admit, I was very much in 
> line with the BrailleBack approach and that was an end to it. But now, well, 
> as I said, speaking from experience, not just hypothesis, I see some definite 
> merit to using accessible devices. After all, these new note takers such as 
> the Touch and the Polaris, like them or loathe them, can be said to be main 
> stream technologies in themselves. Why do I say this? Simple, that’s what 
> they are! They are both Google approved, they both run Android as their base 
> operating systems. In the case of the Polaris, just as with the Touch, I 
> believe you can turn off the accessible operating system by pressing the home 
> button three times quickly. That is a toggle, so you can enable or disable it 
> at will. Once disabled, the self same device will run natively in Android 
> mode, and you can install TalkBack and BrailleBack for use in this mode. You 
> just need to remember not to have them enabled at start-up or you’ll hit real 
> issues.
> 
> Then again, along comes the ElBraille. A totally different approach, but 
> again I believe there’s much to be said for it. I am saving to buy one just 
> as soon as I can.
> 
> =
> 
> My compliments and kindest regards
> Gordon Smith:
> 
> 
> Accessibility & Information Technology Support Specialist..
> 
>  Contact:
> 
> • UK Geographic – +44(0) 1642 688095
> • UKFree Phone – 0800 8620538
> • UK Mobile – +44 (0) 7907 823971
> 
> • Australia Geographic – +61 38 82059300
> • US Geographic – +1 646 9151493Mobile/S
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On 25 Jun 2017, at 18:47, Dane Trethowan  wrote:
>> 
>> You're right, you're nog to get the same level of convenience using a Mobile 
>> device with a Braille display, you're going to get an even better level of 
>> convenience not to mention an even better level of flexibility.
>> 
>> Yep, you have to download the Brailleback App from Google Play Store and 
>> enable that App before the Braille Display will be acknowledge.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 26/06/2017 3:36 AM, Gordon Smith wrote:
>>> That is an option, yes. But you’re not going to get quite the same level of 
>>> convenience doing things that way. I am also given to understand, and I 
>>> haven’t checked this, that you need to use BrailleBack with the Polaris to 
>>> control and interface with a phone. With the Touch, that level of 
>>> connectivity is in-built to KeySoft.
>>> 
>>> 
 On 25 Jun 2017, at 17:30, Dane Trethowan  wrote:
 
 And a forth choice actually, a mobile phone or tablet with a Braille 
 display.
 
 
 
 On 26/06/2017 12:26 AM, Gordon Smith wrote:
> Yes, I totally agree about keyboard. All I was pointing out was that the 
> option, and that’s the key word, “Option” doesn’t exist.
> 
> That said, I do agree that the Polaris is a very nice device and has 
> excellent hardware specs. When it comes to note takers, however, we now 
> have 3 choices. There’s the HumanWare one, (which I like, and use a lot), 
> the Braille Sense Polaris, which I tried the other day, which I’m sure I 
> would come to like a lot if I had the opportunity to use it extensively, 
> and the ElBraille. I plan to buy an ElBraille for my business needs as 
> tat would be the best all-round device for me. I do feel that both Hims 
> and HumanWare kind of missed the boat a bit by not including an. Option 
> for mobile communications. That is one area which EliTech Group has hit a 
> winning note in my opinion.
> 
> All that said, were there an upgrade option on my Braille Sense U2, I 
> would seriously consider that option.
> 
> 
>> On 24 Jun 2017, at 04:05, Debbie Yuille  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> But then you would  most likely have a fold down keyboard that is noisy 
>> like the touch's 

Re: [Techno-Chat]: Braille Sense Polaris: First Impressions

[Gordon Smith]

Yes, but two distinct devices. Have also to say that those who speak from 
experience may be just a tiny little bit more qualified to do so than those who 
do not. I certainly don’t mean to be fractious. But as I discovered, experience 
in the real world is a huge benefit when advocating one course or another. 

=

My compliments and kindest regards
Gordon Smith:


Accessibility & Information Technology Support Specialist..

  Contact:

• UK Geographic – +44(0) 1642 688095
• UKFree Phone – 0800 8620538
• UK Mobile – +44 (0) 7907 823971

• Australia Geographic – +61 38 82059300
• US Geographic – +1 646 9151493Mobile/S





> On 25 Jun 2017, at 17:30, Dane Trethowan  wrote:
> 
> And a forth choice actually, a mobile phone or tablet with a Braille display.
> 
> 
> 
> On 26/06/2017 12:26 AM, Gordon Smith wrote:
>> Yes, I totally agree about keyboard. All I was pointing out was that the 
>> option, and that’s the key word, “Option” doesn’t exist.
>> 
>> That said, I do agree that the Polaris is a very nice device and has 
>> excellent hardware specs. When it comes to note takers, however, we now have 
>> 3 choices. There’s the HumanWare one, (which I like, and use a lot), the 
>> Braille Sense Polaris, which I tried the other day, which I’m sure I would 
>> come to like a lot if I had the opportunity to use it extensively, and the 
>> ElBraille. I plan to buy an ElBraille for my business needs as tat would be 
>> the best all-round device for me. I do feel that both Hims and HumanWare 
>> kind of missed the boat a bit by not including an. Option for mobile 
>> communications. That is one area which EliTech Group has hit a winning note 
>> in my opinion.
>> 
>> All that said, were there an upgrade option on my Braille Sense U2, I would 
>> seriously consider that option.
>> 
>> 
>>> On 24 Jun 2017, at 04:05, Debbie Yuille  wrote:
>>> 
>>> But then you would  most likely have a fold down keyboard that is noisy 
>>> like the touch's keyboard. The Polaris' keyboard is super quiet and in my 
>>> opinion, a lot quicker to type on than using touch braille. That is why I 
>>> prefer the Polaris. I like that we now have choice with our notetakers, one 
>>> that's designed for touch braille and one that is designed for people who 
>>> want a quiet and fast braille keyboard.
>>> 
>>> Debbie
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Gordon Smith [mailto:gor...@mac-access.net]
>>> Sent: Saturday, 24 June 2017 1:42 AM
>>> To: Techno-Chat ... Technology Enthusiasm! 
>>> Subject: Re: [Techno-Chat]: Braille Sense Polaris: First Impressions
>>> 
>>> That is utterly the wrong approach. The Touch, for example, gives you the 
>>> option. You don’t have to use the touch screen at all, but it’s there if 
>>> you want too. The device is intended for the use of the vision impaired and 
>>> the blind and, of course, the deaf blind. Like the Hims tablet, the Touch 
>>> also has a vibrating motor which can be configured for events. And its 
>>> touch screen is there for all. If you’re blind, you can toggle off the 
>>> video output to conserve battery power, but even with the video disabled, 
>>> you can still type on the touch screen and, optionally, still use gestures.
>>> 
>>> So I’m sorry, but I think that Hims has made a gross error of judgement 
>>> there. Of course, it may be that the Samsung hardware on which the device 
>>> is based did not easily lend itself to a touch screen. I think it’s a 
>>> dreadful shame though, as with the inclusion of a touch screen it would 
>>> have been a truly spectacular device.
>>> 
>>> Now, it is true that one can perform some touch gestures on the Braille 
>>> display itself. So that may go some way to addressing the issue. I haven’t 
>>> had the opportunity to try that aspect yet. But I’m sure I shall, and soon. 
>>> But having played with the divide, in terms of its interface It comes a 
>>> poor second in my opinion. In terms of specifications, it comes out the 
>>> clear winner.
>>> 
>>> I need it to be understood that I am totally unprejudiced with these 
>>> comments. I am not, as some people have accused me of being recently, a 
>>> HumanWare man through and through. I’m just trying to be objective.
>>> 
 On 23 Jun 2017, at 10:37, Dane Trethowan  wrote:
 
 I think the absence of a touch screen on a device may very well be a 
 blessing for Hims Inc as not everyone is interested in a touch screen.
 
 3GB of RAM is more than enough, though some of the newer Android devices 
 have 4GB - and some 6GB - 3 is still ample, my absolute minimum would be 
 1GB, the Neo Set Top Box I use has 2Gb and it speeds along most of the 
 time but with 1GB you do notice things slowing down, another device I have 
 - can't remember its name, its an Android Desktop