Bob
It's possible that what you're seeing might well be normal operation when
they're operating as a pair, since Ref-0, what we've been calling the slave
because it has no GPS receiver, is actually the default master in
operational terms.
I only have Ref-1 units operating stand alone so
On 3 Nov 2014 02:59, Bert Kehren via time-nuts time-nuts@febo.com wrote:
I respectfully disagree. Before getting totally submerged in time nuts
issues I did extensive work on signal sources up to 40 GHz as a hobby. So
I
have since the early 90's sweeper, synthesizer, power meter, mixer for
Mike Baker mp...@clanbaker.org wrote:
I have been tempted to build a (hacked) wall clock (after Lord Vetinari)
that has an erratic second hand that sometimes skips ticks and sometimes
ticks several times very rapidly but still keeps correct time.
Sounds a bit like the Corpus Clock
Hi
Ok, on the slave you have, are you talking to the Diag (HP) port or to the
RS-422 / PPS (Lucent) port?
Bob
On Nov 2, 2014, at 10:15 PM, Bob Stewart b...@evoria.net wrote:
Hi Bob,
I am only able to communicate with my system through the REF-0/slave unit. I
had thought this was normal
I found a reference to the Lucent documentation for the RFTG-u/KS-24361:
401-660-129 Base Station CDMA Reference Frequency Timing Generator
(Universal) (RFTG-u) and GPS Antenna System Description, Operation,
Installation, and Maintenance
I haven't found the documentation itself, though it's
Hi
That document would be a very nice thing to see. It might be 4 pages long or it
might be 400 pages … Either way, worth digging for.
Bob
On Nov 3, 2014, at 7:17 AM, Glen Hoag h...@hiwaay.net wrote:
I found a reference to the Lucent documentation for the RFTG-u/KS-24361:
401-660-129
Do not want to get off list subject but again have to disagree. First I was
not referring to $ 2500 spectrum analyzer but a single frequency source.
As to equipment available some of the equipment on ebay is not visible to
offshore buyers. It also helps to know your sellers and I am not
Z3811A ON LED flashing.problem solved!
If only it was always this easy:-)
It turns out this is what happens if you switch the Output Level from 17
to 23, obviously an advisory indication to draw attention to the higher
output.
Switching it back reduces the level, as expected, and
This morning, as I was driving to work,
I heard this really cool story on NPR radio here in NYC.
This is the link to the story:
http://www.npr.org/2014/11/03/361069820/what-time-is-it-it-depends-where-you-are-in-the-universe
What a nice way to start the week.
Past stories with similar
Hi,
yes, it is my fault - my set up (connections) for TI mode was not correct.
According your advices I went back to the frequency mode and set gate / sample
time to 1 second for CNT-91 and TimeLab.
Then I switched on Smart Frequency and Interpolator Calibration option on
CNT-91
1.
VERY HELPFUL. I just picked up this counter and have done a lot of time
just staring at that D shell connector with a slight tinge of despondence.
NS
On Sun, Nov 2, 2014 at 6:54 PM, Tom Wimmenhove tom.wimmenh...@gmail.com
wrote:
I just recently got myself a HP 5334B universal counter and
Hi Bob,
Talking on J8-Diagnostic port. All I see on the RS-422 port is a timestamp.
Bob From: Bob Camp kb...@n1k.org
To: Bob Stewart b...@evoria.net; Discussion of precise time and frequency
measurement time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Monday, November 3, 2014 6:17 AM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts]
On 3 November 2014 12:58, Bert Kehren via time-nuts time-nuts@febo.com wrote:
Do not want to get off list subject but again have to disagree.
Lets's leave it there.
Just checked my buys
and on July 1st 2012 I bought a Wiltron 6740B 40 GHz excellent condition
for $332 total cost.
That was
Regarding comms through the diag ports on the two units, I was using this post
by Stewart Cobb as my reference to what works and what does not.
Bob
From: Stewart Cobb stewart.c...@gmail.com
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Sunday, November 2, 2014 3:42 AM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Lucent
Yes indeed you need a login. Will attempt later.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL
On Mon, Nov 3, 2014 at 7:22 AM, Bob Camp kb...@n1k.org wrote:
Hi
That document would be a very nice thing to see. It might be 4 pages long
or it might be 400 pages … Either way, worth digging for.
Bob
On Nov 3, 2014,
Attempted to get access. No go.
On Mon, Nov 3, 2014 at 10:02 AM, paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com wrote:
Yes indeed you need a login. Will attempt later.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL
On Mon, Nov 3, 2014 at 7:22 AM, Bob Camp kb...@n1k.org wrote:
Hi
That document would be a very nice thing to see.
Hi,
It's possible that my REF-1 had a software fault. I power-cycled both units,
and now I can talk to both. However, I see that there is at least one
difference. During the survey period, REF-0 mode only says SURVEY. REF-1
gives the percentage complete as shown on page 1-10 in the Z3801
Yes, A story about time and frequency standards. They actually used
numbers like 10E16 in the story. Apparently at that level your clock can
measure a change in elevation of a few centimeters because of the
relativistic effects of the reduced gravity field in just a few cm.
On Mon, Nov 3, 2014
Coating the bulb with Teflon involves coating the inside with a Teflon
liquid aqueous dispersion, letting it dry, and then curing it in an oven
at 380 to 400 degrees C for around 30 minutes while circulating dry air
through the bulb.
A little bit intricate but doable. Main concern is getting the
I guess I have to wonder why Corby felt it necessary to remove
the coating. I think it was always motley looking.
And,
If it was very easy to remove, and I suspect it would be, it
is probably equally easy to apply.
-Chuck Harris
Bob Camp wrote:
Hi
On Nov 2, 2014, at 9:49 PM, Chuck Harris
Good god, be core full with that.
Did you find any references to sputtering the coating. I would think this
would give you a more even and more adhesive coating. Some chemical
engineering labs at universities do that and would probably coat it for free.
I know Dr. Viljoen at
Small correction: The numbers were 10E-16.
One important concept that was discussed was this:
If the next generation clock was even more accurate
(maybe by an order or two), then no two clocks
can ever agree on the time.
Minute changes in gravity and other factors will
always make each clock
Have you read Tom's story about his family trip up Mount Ranier with a Cesium
clock?
Project GREAT: General Relativity Einstein/Essen Anniversary Test
Bob
From: xaos x...@darksmile.net
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Monday, November 3, 2014 10:17 AM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] NPR Story I
Our standard cleaning regimen for glass (as I recall
from when I was in gradual school), was:
1) wash in detergent in hot water
2) dip (not soak!) in 10% HF/distilled water solution
3) neutralize in dilute NaOH (KOH) water solution
4) rinse in distilled water
And for a final clean:
1) scrub
You know, I was thinking that exact same thing as
the story went on.
The one (important) thing I got from Tom's story
was that kids might like the idea of the trip,
but the details might seem boring. Although,
I'm sure, Tom had a blast.
I was planning a similar trip from Astoria Queens, NYC
Soldering cables is always annoying, just make sure you don't accidentally
wire it in mirror image like I first did :)
The parport's specs don't comply with GPIB, but it works (atleast for one
device, when you connect more than one, you'll likely run in to trouble)
On Mon, Nov 3, 2014 at 12:07
GandalfG8 at aol.com GandalfG8 at aol.com Sun Nov 2 09:08:30 EST 2014 wrote:
Ooh err, whoops, and oh dear !!
Arthur, I've only just had a chance to look at your latest photos, and
unless I've really got my wires crossed, if you'll pardon the
expression:-),
your links on J5 are not shown on pins
It turns out this is what happens if you switch the Output Level from 17
to 23, obviously an advisory indication to draw attention to the higher
output. Switching it back reduces the level, as expected, and returns the
LED function to normal. Phew:-)
I can't remember switching it but
Hi Arthur
Thanks for your further comments, and certainly no need for the sorry.
It was your pioneering work that inspired recent efforts to start with,
and the confusion over the pin numbers that led Gotz to the, just grounding
pins 2 and 3, 2 link solution we have now.
Overall, I'd
On Mon, Nov 3, 2014 at 8:17 AM, xaos x...@darksmile.net wrote:
Small correction: The numbers were 10E-16.
No I think it was one part in 10E16 ;) But the interesting thing was
they used numbers rather then saying something like really super ultra
tiny.
But you are right, no two clocks will
x...@darksmile.net said:
I was planning a similar trip from Astoria Queens, NYC which is sea level,
to Adirondack Mountains, upstate New York.
You will need clocks that are better than Tom's. :)
He parked at 5,000 feet. Do any roads go that high in the Adirondacks? How
high can you park?
In a normal car, bring a generator. Using a big 6 cyl. engine to drive a
tiny 20 amp alternator is not so good. And that alternator is not designed
to run 24x7 at full load.The Prius is on the other hand a very good
generator and with some add on equipment can power your house. The Prius
albertson.ch...@gmail.com said:
But you are right, no two clocks will ever agree at that level because they
will experience different gravitational fields.
What if I adjust the elevation (aka gravity) of one of them until it matches?
Or at least gets within the resolution and ADEV of the
Ah, that's interesting, perhaps it wasn't me after all then.
Did you have the same flashing ON light symptoms?
Regards
Nigel
GM8PZR
In a message dated 03/11/2014 17:56:56 GMT Standard Time,
hmur...@megapathdsl.net writes:
It turns out this is what happens if you switch the Output
Why Strontium over Caesium?
Is it because it just sounds more hi-tech ? LOL
Maybe stupid question to most here, but I do
not know the answer.
-GKH
On 11/03/2014 12:59 PM, Chris Albertson wrote:
On Mon, Nov 3, 2014 at 8:17 AM, xaos x...@darksmile.net wrote:
Small correction: The numbers were
On Mon, 03 Nov 2014 00:39:24 +0100
Magnus Danielson mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org wrote:
It is worth knowing that active masers have a span for how the hydrogen
in-flux will make it oscillate or not. Too little or too high, and the
oscillation will die off. It may be one of the things to tune
On Sun, 02 Nov 2014 21:49:34 -0500
Chuck Harris cfhar...@erols.com wrote:
They cleaned the vessel very well first with acetone and second,
probably a little distilled water to etch the glass slightly,
Distilled water etches glass? Really?
Attila Kinali
--
I pity
It's surprisingly large. I have a scale that can measure 20g down to a
microgram (and worked on one that can do a gram at nanogram resolution).
Taking the microgram scale up one floor in a building was easily detectable...
I don't remember the exact number but it think it was in the 1
Found it on page 17 of Mettler's excellent article:
Adverse Influences and Their Prevention in Weighing
http://us.mt.com/dam/mt_ext_files/Editorial/Generic/2/Weigh_Uncertain_Number1_0x0003d6750003db6700091746_files/adverse_influences.pdf
It works out to be -0.3 ppm/meter.
Yes, really.
Ever see a double pane insulated glass door that looks white
and frosted on the inside? That is due to water vapor that
found its way between the panes, and condensed. Because the
inside glass is about as clean and free of dirt (minerals) as
the manufacturer could make it, the
I would presume the usual reason is you want enough hydrogen
to resonate at the desired microwave frequency, but not so much
that you wreck the Q (spread the line width) with excess collisions.
-Chuck Harris
Attila Kinali wrote:
On Mon, 03 Nov 2014 00:39:24 +0100
Magnus Danielson
I'd be tempted to experiment with other methods of bulb coating but the
time and effort in disassembly, re assembly and testing is so great that
I'm going to use a tried and true method to increase the chances of
success! It's definitely NOT just as simple as screwing in a different
light bulb and
Hello,
Monday, November 3, 2014, 5:40:30, Chuck Harris wrote:
C I would think that making the teflon coating would be pretty easy.
C What I would try is to put a nichrome boat, and some teflon into the
C vessel, and pull it down to a good vacuum. Then heat up the boat,
C and the teflon should
Chris Albertson writes:
But you are right, no two clocks will ever agree at that level because they
will experience different gravitational fields. At this level the reason
to have a clock is no longer to tell time. It is to measure the
gravitational field.
I have a question about
On Mon, Nov 3, 2014 at 10:15 AM, Hal Murray hmur...@megapathdsl.net wrote:
albertson.ch...@gmail.com said:
But you are right, no two clocks will ever agree at that level because
they
will experience different gravitational fields.
What if I adjust the elevation (aka gravity) of one of
Hi Corby,
Just curious, how did you remove the original coating, and why?
-Chuck Harris
cdel...@juno.com wrote:
I'd be tempted to experiment with other methods of bulb coating but the
time and effort in disassembly, re assembly and testing is so great that
I'm going to use a tried and true
Hi Yuri,
It would be a very good idea to keep the temperature of
the nichrome wire low, and that might be the biggest problem
with the vacuum deposition technique... the wire could get
too hot in some places, and stay too cool in others.
A really uncontrolled experiment, aka: a thermal wire
___
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and follow the instructions there.
Yes, A story about time and frequency standards. They actually used
numbers like 10E16 in the story. Apparently at that level your clock can
measure a change in elevation of a few centimeters because of the
relativistic effects of the reduced gravity field in just a few cm.
Hi Chris,
OK, I am going to show my ignorance now. Being in my 70th year, I forgot an
awful lot of what I learned in school.
Anyway, regarding time and gravity, I certainly believe the mathematics of
Einstein and others, however, I have a hard time believing that man-made
instruments to measure the
The highest accessible peak in the Adirondacks I think would be
Whiteface at 4,867 ft, though that would be by ski lift and not all the
way to the top. The highest point accessible by car in the Northeast
would be Mt. Washington here in New Hampshire at 6288 ft. Hmm...
David
On 11/3/14
On Mon, Nov 3, 2014 at 1:18 PM, Mike Feher mfe...@eozinc.com wrote:
Anyway, regarding time and gravity, I certainly believe the mathematics of
Einstein and others, however, I have a hard time believing that man-made
instruments to measure the effects of gravity on time is valid. For example
Chuck,
The coating opposite the entrance to the bulb was degraded to the point
that it was missing over a large area and the tiny particles of loose
Teflon were free to move about in the bulb. (Rolling the bulb you could
see a little pile of particles moving about) Since a majority of the
Tom wrote:
As I understand it, his project is to use the high frequency output
of a ublox NEO-7M to discipline a MV89 with a James Miller-style analog PLL.
* * *
(perhaps someone can post an English translation for us)
Tom,
I have a machine-translated PDF (~2.5MB), but nowhere to put
I have a question about that. If I understand correctly, recent IAU
resolutions have decoupled the definition of the SI second from the
terrestrial geoid, which is too fuzzy to be used for a definition. Instead
the geoid potential is held fixed by (or defined by) a constant. Potential
with
David,
Let's talk. It is not impossible that I could drive my clocks to the East Coast
for a Mt. Washington experiment.
/tvb
- Original Message -
From: David McGaw n1...@dartmouth.edu
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Monday, November
On 11/3/2014 3:54 PM, Tom Van Baak wrote:
When it comes to frequency standards the official SI second is
defined only for sea level. We know time and frequency are bent by
speed or gravity;
According to the BIPM: At its 1997 meeting the CIPM affirmed that:
This definition refers to a caesium
BTW, be careful with micronized teflon... it is a very powerful oxidizer
and forms highly combustible/explosive/nasty mixtures with things like powdered
or finely divided metals. Particularly magnesium, aluminum, and titanium.
More than one machinist has been surprised by exploding swarf.
I'd be happy to volunteer my 5061 for such an experiment! Located in Troy,
N.Y., I can get it down to about 15' ASL, possibly as low as 12' if I go to
the basement in a downtown building. The river is at 13' ASL iirc.
Bob
On Mon, Nov 3, 2014 at 4:53 PM, Tom Van Baak t...@leapsecond.com wrote:
I don't see anything in the BIPM definition of the second regarding sea level.
Hi Mike,
The usual wording for the definition of the SI second also includes the word
unperturbed. That little word covers a host of physics and engineering
effects and can keep graduate students busy for years.
Not to put too fine a point on it, but my practical understanding is that
any two or more clocks generally do *not* agree (that is - yield identical
phase/frequency information) ever, anyway. So atomic horology - and beyond
- means that we continue to ?adjust? ?compensate? clocks of whatever
Hi Ken,
That's correct. No two clocks ever agree. If they look like they do, you are
not looking close enough or not waiting long enough.
That's also why UTC is based on the combined stability of hundreds of clocks.
The weighted average of many cesium clocks is known to be better than any one
Because for optical clocks Strontium is better suited than Caesium.
Caesium was at one time judged as the best suited for atomic beam
designs, but is not considered the best for fountain clocks, since
caesium has larger cross-section than rubidium, so the effect of
collisions becomes larger.
Hi
I got a chance to look at phase noise today. I’ll try to post the plots later.
Quick summary:
10 MHz - ugly. Lots of spurs, many of them close in. Poor phase noise floor.
15 MHz - pretty good. Noise floor is not as good as a TBolt (by 5 to 15 db).
Far fewer spurs than the 10 MHz, fewer
(I noticed earlier in the thread, folks writing 10E-16 when I think they
meant 1E-16, at least based on the Fortran notation I learned a long time
ago. I am living proof, that a good Fortran programmer can write spaghetti
code in any language!)
On time quantization:
Planck Time is 3.59E-44
On 11/3/14, 1:50 PM, Tom Van Baak wrote:
I have a question about that. If I understand correctly, recent IAU
resolutions have decoupled the definition of the SI second from the
terrestrial geoid, which is too fuzzy to be used for a definition. Instead
the geoid potential is held fixed by (or
Hi Corby,
I figured that you had a good reason, but from casual viewing
of the pictures you provided the coating looked pretty reasonable,
so I wondered.
The stabilizing agents are the key. Teflon particles don't like
water sticking to them all that well, hence their use in things
like gortex.
I wonder how well Viton would work? Viton is soluble in acetone and should
make coating much easier.
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Hi
On Nov 3, 2014, at 12:00 PM, Arthur Dent golgarfrinc...@gmail.com wrote:
GandalfG8 at aol.com GandalfG8 at aol.com Sun Nov 2 09:08:30 EST 2014 wrote:
Ooh err, whoops, and oh dear !!
Arthur, I've only just had a chance to look at your latest photos, and
unless I've really got my
Hi
On my pair of boxes, the slave is the one that is active. The GPS is the one
that is inactive (standby). Plugging into the RS-422 / PPS port, I see a pps
and a GPS timestamp, and the status bits. That tells me that the slave box
*must* be seeing the GPS data strings from the GPS box.
It
Hi
Ok, who do we know in the Chinese military? They are *sure* to have several
copies ….
(Somebody *must* have a copy somewhere ….)
Bob
On Nov 3, 2014, at 10:26 AM, paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com wrote:
Attempted to get access. No go.
On Mon, Nov 3, 2014 at 10:02 AM, paul swed
Hi
If the GPS box is the one in control of the survey process (maybe) then the
slave box is just watching what’s happening. I would trust the GPS box far more
than the slave when it comes down to fine grain GPS goings on.
Bob
On Nov 3, 2014, at 10:52 AM, Bob Stewart b...@evoria.net wrote:
On Tue, Nov 4, 2014 at 4:28 AM, Tim Shoppa tsho...@gmail.com wrote:
(I noticed earlier in the thread, folks writing 10E-16 when I think they
meant 1E-16, at least based on the Fortran notation I learned a long time
ago. I am living proof, that a good Fortran programmer can write spaghetti
I've been able to get the GPS unit running standalone by attaching J5-P2 to
J5-P8 with a 470 ohm resistor and J5-P3 directly to J5-P8.
I am still completely stumped getting any data out of J6 or J8 into a PC serial
port. With a scope on the Rx and Tx lines of the RS232 to RS422 cable, I can
Just loaded Satstat and found that it would not work with windoze 7 64 bit. Is
there a 64 bit version around or do I dig out an old xp machine - or what
program has been found to work?
Bill, WA2DVU
Cape May
---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection
The photos I posted at http://goo.gl/87e8GG show the differences between the
two boards - there is more to it than just adding a GPS board. The underside
has a bunch of additional components beneath the antenna connector.
Anthony
-Original Message-
From: time-nuts
I've been able to get the GPS unit running standalone by attaching J5-P2 to
J5-P8 with a 470 ohm resistor and J5-P3 directly to J5-P8.
I am still completely stumped getting any data out of J6 or J8 into a PC serial
port. With a scope on the Rx and Tx lines of the RS232 to RS422 cable, I can
Yes it appears that I am unworthy even though Alcatel Lucent is a company
that we partner with.
Not giving up yet.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL
On Mon, Nov 3, 2014 at 8:48 PM, Bob Camp kb...@n1k.org wrote:
Hi
Ok, who do we know in the Chinese military? They are *sure* to have
several copies ….
Charles,
You can always upload time-related material to my Manuals page:
www.ko4bb.com/manuals
Didier KO4BB
On November 3, 2014 2:43:47 PM CST, Charles Steinmetz csteinm...@yandex.com
wrote:
Tom wrote:
As I understand it, his project is to use the high frequency output
of a ublox NEO-7M to
Hi
I’ve been trying to get ahold of some / any of the sources for these programs.
Several of them need to be re-compiled (and possibly re-written) for the modern
world of 64 bits and Net (what ever it’s up to).(the rev coming out tomorrow).
The whole structure of accessing com ports changed a
Some of the parts on the underside are to provide power to the antenna. It
does not use the GPS rx to do that. I guess they also detect any antenna
fault.
- Original Message -
From: Anthony Roby ar...@antamy.com
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Hi
Feeding antenna bias through the “stuff” on the module does not let you handle
shorts and strange stuff as well as an outboard solution. I guess they wanted
it built tough.
The crazy deal with re-stuffing a slave is that there probably are 7 0402
sized resistors on the board that control
Bob and all: Haven't hookedd upmy units yet. Marlon P Jones (MPJA) has some
Real Cheap 15 pin m-m cables that are 1 ft long, might be useful. no clipped
pins, whatever they're for. I don't think many of us want to hot-plug that
cable?
Don
Bob Camp
My boxes were flakey at first. What I finally
If they are straight wired pin 1 to pin 1, pin 2 to pin 2, etc, they will
not work.
- Original Message -
From: Don Latham d...@montana.com
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2014 1:23 AM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts]
Eesesh Viton is really bad stuff to play with.
When it burns, even a little, it releases HF, and will
corrode your bones if you handle it.
That said, I love viton O-rings for lots of weird chemicals.
I didn't know it was sensitive to acetone, and would have
bet it wasn't... learn something
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