Jim Guinee wrote:
I would like to point out that Flew's change reminds
me of the defense mechanism reaction formation.
Perhaps he has been fighting so hard for so long at something
that deep down he believed but didn't want to.
Nancy Melucci responded:
You're right - it's not much. Way
Stephen Black wrote:
I just want to remind people that my original post actually referred
to a remarkable new paper on the famous novelist Iris Murdoch, and
never mentioned Flew directly. Garrard et al (2004) showed that
despite the great skill Murdoch displayed in writing her last novel,
Dec 2004 10:11:24 -0500
Subject:RE: Famous Atheist Now Believes in God
Priority: normal
Send reply to: Teaching in the Psychological Sciences
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
This thread has probably stretched far enough, but it's hard to
resist getting in a final shot
At 8:32 AM -0600 12/14/04, jim clark wrote:
Hi
I posited space aliens, mind reading by participants, and
mental control by researchers as possibly equivalent to divine
intervention.
Actually, I'm not sure that this stands.
Aliens, mind reading and mental control all involve presently unknown
(and
Title: Re: Famous Atheist Now Believes in
God
At 11:32 AM -0500 12/14/04, Christopher Green wrote:
Paul Brandon wrote:
Jefferson was a very 'soft' Deist who
believed that Jesus, while not
himself divine, was divinely selected (see Jefferson's
Bible).
This is not consistent with true
'wind-it-up
Stephen Black:
First, Jim objects to my suggestion that Flew's supposed sudden
conversion to God may indicate the onset of Alzheimer's because
from my angle you reflexively went to an explanation that seems
unlikely (given the relatively small percentage of individuals his
age that
STephen Black:
This thread has probably stretched far enough, but it's hard to
resist getting in a final shot
I know how you feel ;)
I just want to remind people that my original post actually referred
to a remarkable new paper on the famous novelist Iris Murdoch, and
never mentioned
Paul Brandon wrote:
At 1:02 PM -0500 12/13/04, Dennis Goff wrote:
I only skimmed the interview, but it appears that Flew has become a
deist much in the model of Thomas Jefferson.
I hope not.
Jefferson was a very 'soft' Deist who believed that Jesus, while not
himself divine, was divinely selected
in the Psychological Sciences [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2004 5:25 AM
Subject: Re: Famous Atheist Now Believes in God
On 13 December Mike Lee wrote:
Rumour also has it that Flew has announced his belief that
God exists in order to generate attention and controversy.
Flew or his
On 14 Dec 2004, Stuart Mckelvie wrote:
Steve's reference to the computer analysis of Iris Murdoch's text is
interesting.
Could the computer analysis have detected signs of Alzheimer's
because the programmer or interpreter of the output knew that she
had Alzheimer's? I am speaking here
At 1:02 PM -0500 12/13/04, Dennis Goff wrote:
Ah the powers of confirmatory bias. I picked up the link to the Flew
piece from Arts and Letters Daily: http://aldaily.com/. There are three
links in that story. I looked at the first, was happy with what I saw
and sent it on. There is a third link to
Atheist Now Believes in God
At 12:43 AM -0600 12/12/04, Paul Smith wrote:
This all may be moot, if when the book comes out, it turns out that
the man does have a new argument. The piece that Paul Brandon posted
today refers to an apparent impossibility of providing a
naturalistic theory
At 8:59 AM -0500 12/13/04, Dennis Goff wrote:
Professor Flew has published a short response to the rumors about him
that are circulating on the internet (and in my local paper). You can
read his response here:
http://www.rationalistinternational.net/archive/en/rationalist_2004/137.
html
The title
There are so many interesting comment on this thread that it's not
going to be easy to credit (or disentangle) them all, but here goes.
The primary issue in this post is Jim Guinee's accusation that my
comments about Antony Flew's alleged miraculous conversion to belief
in God are both
- Original Message -
From: Dennis Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Teaching in the Psychological Sciences [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 7:59 AM
Subject: RE: Famous Atheist Now Believes in God
Professor Flew has published a short response to the rumors about him
in the Psychological Sciences [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 7:59 AM
Subject: RE: Famous Atheist Now Believes in God
Professor Flew has published a short response to the rumors about him
that are circulating on the internet (and in my local paper). You can
read his response here:
http
Title: Re: Famous Atheist Now Believes in
God
At 11:18 AM -0600 12/13/04, Michael Lee wrote:
It appears that the article linked to
below is actually from 2001, and was
re-posted. See here:
http://www.secweb.org/asset.asp?AssetID=138
and then the updates and story continue here:
Antony Flew
So it does look as though there's no hope for me, at least according
to a widespread belief. Still, given the imminent onset of a Quebec
winter, it might be nice to be warm for a change.
Stephen
There are strange things done
'neath the midnight sun
--
No one in this world, so far as I know,
In a message dated 12/13/2004 10:09:36 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
P.S. I
liked your analysis (as always), and admit I don't have much tosummon in
response. I would like to point out that Flew's change remindsme of
the defense mechanism "reaction
video, Has Science
Discovered God? was released.
Mike, could you give a citation for this guy Rumour.
Allen Esterson
Mon, 13 Dec 2004
Author: Michael Lee [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Famous Atheist Now Believes in God
Body: It appears that the article linked
Jim Guinee wrote:
And based on Jim Clark's recent comments, one could also suggest space
aliens as a possible cause.
Now, just how viable is dementia in this case?
I would argue that it's certainly more possible than space aliens, but
still a weak possibility for a number of reasons.
I
This thread has probably stretched far enough, but it's hard to
resist getting in a final shot:
Jim Guinee wrote:
What I meant to say is that it's one thing to posit senility, but I would
be more convinced if one could demonstrate that Flew's writing and oral
communication are
At 12:43 AM -0600 12/12/04, Paul Smith wrote:
This all may be moot, if when the book comes out, it turns out that
the man does have a new argument. The piece that Paul Brandon posted
today refers to an apparent impossibility of providing a
naturalistic theory of the origin from DNA of the first
At the same time, Jim, it should be clear that if you do take the
article at face value, then it's neither desperate nor prejudicial to
suggest something like dementia as the cause of the change.
To suggest it as a possibility is not prejudicial. To leap to it so
quickly IS.
If you
So your point is what -- his transition from atheist to deist is
an indication of dementia?
Talk about DESPERATE.
And prejudicial.
Dr. Jim Guinee
Firm Believer
Stephen Black:
Well, I tend to the opinion that if Firm Believers can say that an
allegedly loving God is going
Paul Brandon:
At the same time, Jim, it should be clear that if you do take the
article at face value, then it's neither desperate nor prejudicial to
suggest something like dementia as the cause of the change.
To suggest it as a possibility is not prejudicial. To leap to it so
quickly IS.
Paul Brandon:
And given the vague support (basically the argument from ignorance:
if I don't understand how something works I'm justified in making up
an explanation) given so far for the (near) deathbed conversion, the
hypothesis is consistent with the data.
Jim Guinee:
Deathbed conversion?
It truly IS the season of miracles ;)
Dr. Jim Guinee
===
Famous Atheist Now Believes in God
By RICHARD N. OSTLING, AP Religion Writer
NEW YORK - A British philosophy professor who has been a leading champion
of atheism for more than a half-century
In a message dated 12/10/2004 2:02:21 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
He
nowbelieves in God more or less based on scientific evidence, and says
soon a video released Thursday.
This in itself is an illogical concept. There IS no scientific evidence
forGod,
that all of life after the first spark originated
through evolution by natural selection. So when they say "Famous Atheist
Now Believes in God"it gives a misleading impression.
Paul Okami
- Original Message -
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Teaching in the Psy
On 10 Dec 2004, Jim Guinee wrote:
It truly IS the season of miracles ;)
Famous Atheist Now Believes in God
By RICHARD N. OSTLING, AP Religion Writer
It may be an indication of the increasing desperation of supporters
of conventional religious belief that this news is seen as cause
.
Tricia Keith-Spiegel
- Original Message -
From:
Paul
Okami
To: Teaching in the Psychological
Sciences
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 6:40
AM
Subject: Re: Famous Atheist Now Believes
in God
Actually, I don't see much difference between atheism--with a belief
]
To: Teaching in the Psychological Sciences [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 11:13 AM
Subject: RE: Famous Atheist Now Believes in God
Unfortunately, the article focuses on the fact that a person changed his
mind, rather than on that person's reasons for changing his mind. I don't
think
Arkansas
Conway, AR 72035
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 12/10/2004 3:50:05 AM
It truly IS the season of miracles ;)
Dr. Jim Guinee
===
Famous Atheist Now Believes in God
At 1:26 PM -0500 12/10/04, Christopher D. Green wrote:
While I'm more or les inclined to agree with your analysis, Nancy, I
think what they journalist (NOTE!) means by this is that Flew is
convinced by a kind of inference to the best explanation on the
issue of first cause of the universe,
It truly IS the season of miracles ;)
Famous Atheist Now Believes in God
By RICHARD N. OSTLING, AP Religion Writer
Stephen Black:
It may be an indication of the increasing desperation of supporters
of conventional religious belief that this news is seen as cause
At 4:50 AM -0500 12/10/04, Jim Guinee wrote:
It truly IS the season of miracles ;)
Dr. Jim Guinee
===
Famous Atheist Now Believes in God
By RICHARD N. OSTLING, AP Religion Writer
NEW YORK - A British philosophy professor who has been a leading champion
Is this newsworthy in the man bites dog sense? Do more atheists become =
believers than believers become atheists?
Michael T. Scoles, Ph.D.
Interim Chair, Dept. Psychology Counseling
University of Central Arkansas
Conway, AR 72035
Michael, you asked a great question.
Wish I knew.
My
Christopher D. Green wrote:
Paul Brandon wrote:
At 1:26 PM -0500 12/10/04, Christopher D. Green wrote:
(And some American evangelists spend a good deal of time trying to
*deny* that Thomas Jefferson and several other of the Founding
Fathers were deists of pretty much this same ilk.)
Actually
At 2:36 PM -0500 12/10/04, Christopher D. Green wrote:
Christopher D. Green wrote:
Paul Brandon wrote:
At 1:26 PM -0500 12/10/04, Christopher D. Green wrote:
(And some American evangelists spend a good deal of time trying
to *deny* that Thomas Jefferson and several other of the
Founding Fathers
On 10 Dec 2004, Jim Guinee wrote:
So your point is what -- his transition from atheist to deist is
an indication of dementia?
Talk about DESPERATE.
And prejudicial.
Dr. Jim Guinee
Firm Believer
Well, I tend to the opinion that if Firm Believers can say that an
allegedly loving God
Atheist Now Believes in God
At 3:58 PM -0500 12/10/04, Stephen Black wrote:
On 10 Dec 2004, Jim Guinee wrote:
So your point is what -- his transition from atheist to deist is
an indication of dementia?
Talk about DESPERATE.
And prejudicial.
Dr. Jim Guinee
Firm Believer
Well, I
Paul Brandon wrote:
At 1:26 PM -0500 12/10/04, Christopher D. Green wrote:
(And some American evangelists spend a good deal of time trying to
*deny* that Thomas Jefferson and several other of the Founding
Fathers were deists of pretty much this same ilk.)
Actually Jefferson was more more a
While I'm more or les
inclined to agree with your analysis, Nancy, I think what they
journalist (NOTE!) means by this is that Flew is convinced by a kind of
"inference to the best explanation" on the issue of first cause of the
universe, rather than on the basis of a "personal experience of
At 3:58 PM -0500 12/10/04, Stephen Black wrote:
On 10 Dec 2004, Jim Guinee wrote:
So your point is what -- his transition from atheist to deist is
an indication of dementia?
Talk about DESPERATE.
And prejudicial.
Dr. Jim Guinee
Firm Believer
Well, I tend to the opinion that if Firm
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