subject:"RE\: \[TruthTalk\] Judaizers within the Messianic Movement"

RE: [TruthTalk] Judaizers within the Messianic Movement

2005-01-28 Thread Kevin Deegan

WRONG Guy Blaine
Read the Bible!

http://www.biblelight.net/hebrew-canon.htm
"... from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias"... . What could Jesus be referring to? Well, Abel was murdered in the book of Genesis, the first book of the Bible. And Zacharias? What book is his murder related in? Well let's look at our third text, a parallel passage, first:

Luke 11:51 From the blood of Abel unto the blood of Zacharias, which perished between the altar and the temple: verily I say unto you, It shall be required of this generation.Luke 11:52 Woe unto you, lawyers! for ye have taken away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered.
Note that Jesus accuses the scribes and Pharisees of taking away the key of knowledge. What key is that? And what is God requiring of that generation? The answer is in the phrase "From the blood of Abel unto the blood of Zacharias ...". Well, again, Abel was slain in the first book of the Bible (Gen 4:8). Now those Protestants who anticipate the answer might begin looking for the murder of Zacharias in the book of Malachi. Why? Because Jesus is again referring to the full breadth of the scriptures (the key of knowledge, the oracles of God), from the first book of the Old Testament, to the last book of the Old Testament. A Protestant therefore, might well open their Bible to search in the last book of the Old Testament, Malachi, for the martyrdom of Zacharias. However, Malachi is not the last book of the Hebrew TaNaKh! What? That is correct. The Hebrew Bible, though identical in content to the Protestant Old Testament, is not
in the same order as Protestant or Catholic Bibles. In the Hebrew Bible the last book is the book of Chronicles. That is where we find the murder of Zechariah between the altar and the temple:

2 Chr 24:20 And the Spirit of God came upon Zechariah the son of Jehoiada* the priest, which stood above the people, and said unto them, Thus saith God, Why transgress ye the commandments of the LORD, that ye cannot prosper? because ye have forsaken the LORD, he hath also forsaken you.2 Chr 24:21 And they conspired against him, and stoned him with stones at the commandment of the king in the court of the house of the LORD.2 Chr 24:22 Thus Joash the king remembered not the kindness which Jehoiada his father had done to him, but slew his son. And when he died, he said, The LORD look upon it, and require it.

It is worth noting that while Abel was the first martyr, Zechariah is not the last in the Old Testament, chronologically speaking. That was the prophet Urijah, killed by king Jehoiakim in Jeremiah 26:20-23, more than a century after the martyrdom of Zechariah:

King Joash, who had Zechariah stoned within the temple's court (2 Chr 24:20-22), was the 13th king of the northern kingdom of Israel, and he ruled from 798-782 B.C.
King Jehoiakim, who slew Urijah with a sword (Jer 26:20-23), was the 18th ruler of the southern kingdom of Judah, and he reigned from 609-598 B.C.
Had Jesus been speaking chronologically, (from the first martyr to the last) He would have said - from the blood of Able unto the blood of Urijah, but that is not what He intended. He was clearly saying from the first book of scripture, to the last book of scripture. Therefore, in Matthew 23:35 and Luke 11:51, and in Luke 24:44, Jesus was explicitly referring to the order and divisions of the books in the Hebrew Bible as the complete span of scripture.
"[EMAIL PROTECTED]" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Then according to this, Kay, John's (the Baptist) father, righteous Zacharias, was a false prophet--so were many others.Matthew 23:34-35: "Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets,and wise men, and scribes, and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city.""That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of Righteous Abel to the blood of Zacharias, whom ye slew between the temple and the alter."BlaineRBI think Scripture says the false prophet is to be killedKay --"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an
email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
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Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term'

RE: [TruthTalk] Judaizers within the Messianic Movement

2005-01-14 Thread [EMAIL PROTECTED]



Then according to this, Kay, John's (the Baptist) father, righteous Zacharias,  
was a false prophet--so were many others.

Matthew 23:34-35:  
Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets,and wise men, and scribes, and 
some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them ye scourge in your 
synagogues, and persecute them from city to city.

That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the 
blood of Righteous Abel to the blood of Zacharias, whom ye slew between the 
temple and the alter.
BlaineRB


 I think Scripture says the false prophet is to be killed
 
Kay 

 


--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know 
how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

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RE: [TruthTalk] Judaizers within the Messianic Movement

2005-01-14 Thread Slade Henson

Ummm...I think you have two different Zach's here, Blaine.

Kay

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, 14 January, 2005 10.25
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Judaizers within the Messianic Movement

Then according to this, Kay, John's (the Baptist) father, righteous
Zacharias,  was a false prophet--so were many others.

Matthew 23:34-35:
Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets,and wise men, and scribes, and
some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them ye scourge in your
synagogues, and persecute them from city to city.

That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from
the blood of Righteous Abel to the blood of Zacharias, whom ye slew between
the temple and the alter.
BlaineRB

 I think Scripture says the false prophet is to be killed

Kay

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know
how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6)
http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a
friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know 
how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL 
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RE: [TruthTalk] Judaizers within the Messianic Movement

2005-01-13 Thread ShieldsFamily





















From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Slade Henson
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2005
8:17 PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Judaizers
within the Messianic Movement







Prophets who speak lies are very apt to
pull people away from the Holy One, therefore, may God never forget
theiniquity of ALLfalse prophets. That's why God says to kill
them.Should they repent and NEVER PROPHESY AGAIN nor CLAIM to be a
prophet, may G-d forgive them. Daniel Lee knows he falsely prophesies, yet he
claims he repents but HE CONTINUES TO DO IT! In fact, he gave over 70
prophesies in a month's time or so. Talk about being possessed! May God not
forget his iniquity. On the other hand, may God bring him to TRUE repentance.











Prophets, we are told, are to be obeyed
until they are proven wrong. When one claims to be a prophet, how are we to
gauge their prophetic calling? Do we do the christian thing and
say, By Jove! That man sez heez a proffet! He's gotta be rite until heez
rong? No we do not. What the prophet says will come true and will be
fact. It's not out of the question for proof of his prophesy. If anything, it's
honorable to ask for proof. It's dishonorable to hide behind misappropriated
Scripture.











n
Slade





Slade, that illustrates my point that repentance is not just
confession, but actually turning from evil and doing right. Talk is
cheap. BTW, I dont think Ive ever heard David Miller
prophesy anything, but then Im not part of his church fellowship where I
would expect his calling to operate. I always thought of a prophet of one
who does not just prophecy future events, but simply boldly speaks forth the
oracles of God to the unrepentant. What do you think? Izzy

Re: [TruthTalk] Judaizers within the Messianic Movement

2005-01-13 Thread David Miller

David Miller wrote:
 ... the Lord told me that I was functioning as a
 prophet ...

SLADE wrote:
 How clear was this message? Was it riddled
 with parables? Was the message clear, concise,
 and very much to the point?

The message was very clear, but perhaps not the absolute clearest revelation 
possible.  I have only had one experience where the Lord spoke to me 
audibly.  It was an experience very much like Samuel and happened before I 
had ever had any kind of revelatory experience.  At that time, he did not 
tell me anything about a call to be a prophet.  When this experience 
happened, I was at first thrilled that the Lord had spoken to me, but as 
time passed and I did not hear from him again, I began to seek him out in 
prayer, wondering why he maintained his silence.  There began to be times 
when the Lord visited me and spoke to me again, but it has never been in an 
audible way like that first encounter.  More often, it has been in a dream 
or vision.  I also have had experiences that required interpretation, but 
not in this particular case that we have been talking about.  In this 
particular case where he told me that I had been functioning as a prophet, 
it was a spiritual vision, not audible, but there was no allegory involved. 
He simply spoke it to me as I have relayed it to you.  I saw the Angel of 
the Lord standing in front of me in this vision, but that was it.  It 
probably lasted less than a minute, in my bedroom, as I was on the floor on 
my knees praying.

SLADE wrote:
 Interesting nonanswer. A teacher, a Rabbi, and that rare
 person with a Helping Heart are what they are because
 of what he/she receives from above; therefore your
 statement lends no support to your assertion.

Perhaps you make a bigger distinction between prophet and teacher than I do. 
For me, these terms are simply descriptions of different jobs.  Those who 
fill these jobs are meant to fit together in community and relationship. 
Human nature is to snub the apostolic and prophetic offices and to give 
greater honor to the teacher, but the Spirit more highly values these 
offices.

Slade wrote:
 Also, I did not ask for you to defend yourself, I
 simply requested that you give a proof to your claim.
 This request on my part is perfectly acceptable.
 You, yourself agree when you stated, The OT
 prophets would give a sign. This was the basis by
 which the Jews approached Jesus... they had a right
 to ask for such a sign. I claim that right as well,
 but the Newer Testament [wannabe] prophets deny
 this right. You have done the same.

I do not make the rules, Slade.  I have read the OT like you, but as I 
sought the Lord about it, he revealed to me that there has been a change 
between the OT and the NT.  I explained that change in my last post. 
Prophets, generally speaking, do not give signs that accompany their word. 
The Spirit itself bears witness within the heart of the believing hearer.

Slade wrote:
 If you are a prophet, you should not fear!

I don't fear.  I would love to give you what you want.  Hey, it would give 
me great satisfaction to give you a sign and have you look up to me as 
someone who is truthful.  The problem is that I am kind of in the position 
like Balaam, who seeks the Lord to try and give what is being asked of him, 
but when he returns, he can only give that which the Lord has given him.  If 
the Lord does not give me a sign to deliver to you, there really is nothing 
I can do about that.  If that causes you to conclude that I am a false 
prophet or that I fear being exposed, that is between you and the Lord. 
There is nothing I can do about it.

I did once hope very much that the Lord would prove himself through a sign. 
I was attending a Baptist church that did not believe in the gifts of the 
Holy Spirit, such as speaking in tongues.  They had a visiting minister from 
the Middle East who spoke five languages fluently.  The pastor there wanted 
me to get with him and this man and speak in tongues for them.  They 
believed that I was probably possessed by an evil spirit, and they wanted to 
use his linguistic knowledge to expose the spirit and show me that I was 
speaking things that were an abomination to God.  The other alternative was 
that they could use his knowledge of langauge to show me that I was just 
speaking gibberish.

Well, the results of their test ended up not being very conclusive.  I 
yielded myself to the Spirit and spoke in five different dialects, but the 
man did not understand any of the languages that I spoke.  He was able, 
however, to pick out some words here and there.  Their conclusion was that I 
was a very sincere follower of Christ.  Therefore, they dismissed the idea 
that I might be possessed by an evil spirit.  However, they did not accept 
that I was truly speaking by the Holy Spirit of God.  This linguist person 
said that he believed that I had, as a child, been exposed to various 
languages, and these languages were in my subconscious.  He

RE: [TruthTalk] Judaizers within the Messianic Movement

2005-01-13 Thread Slade Henson

I just skimmed most of this. But I'm not understanding why God would
allegedly tell you something contrary to His Wordsuch as this age of
this and that. Sounds like dispensationalism to mewhich is clearly NOT
Scriptural. I'm not going to debate over this, but I ask...was it God you
heard from, or something else? We already have the foundation regarding
prophets laid for us. The SAME foundation is continued in the Newer
Covenant.
   Maybe I'm touchy about this subject since being stuck in a cult-group who
said much of the same things you're currently sayingthe Lord told me,
the Lord says...I had a dreamI had an awesome dream. I've been there,
done that, and don't care to do it again. We were taken  advantage of,
preyed upon, treated like crap, had FOOD cut off from us and the
children...including our own food, mind you, because we were wicked,
horrible people who wouldn't bow down to the leader and his prophet and
do what he said, no matter WHAT he said. Darn tootin' when someone says the
same types of thingsit makes my skin crawl and makes me want to RUN and
never return. Darn tootin' I would ask for PROOF of someone's proclamation
of a certain gift, any of the gifts. I can give many witnesses for my own
gifts...discernment, mercy, encouragement. So should you, David.
There's an old Yiddish word for it... bülshit.

K


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of David Miller
Sent: Thursday, 13 January, 2005 14.29
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Judaizers within the Messianic Movement

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know 
how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL 
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Re: [TruthTalk] Judaizers within the Messianic Movement

2005-01-13 Thread Terry Clifton

Slade Henson wrote:
I just skimmed most of this. But I'm not understanding why God would
allegedly tell you something contrary to His Wordsuch as this age of
this and that. Sounds like dispensationalism to mewhich is clearly NOT
Scriptural. I'm not going to debate over this, but I ask...was it God you
heard from, or something else? We already have the foundation regarding
prophets laid for us. The SAME foundation is continued in the Newer
Covenant.
Maybe I'm touchy about this subject since being stuck in a cult-group who
said much of the same things you're currently sayingthe Lord told me,
the Lord says...I had a dreamI had an awesome dream. I've been there,
done that, and don't care to do it again. We were taken advantage of,
preyed upon, treated like crap, had FOOD cut off from us and the
children...including our own food, mind you, because we were wicked,
horrible people who wouldn't bow down to the leader and his prophet and
do what he said, no matter WHAT he said. Darn tootin' when someone says the
same types of thingsit makes my skin crawl and makes me want to RUN and
never return. Darn tootin' I would ask for PROOF of someone's proclamation
of a certain gift, any of the gifts. I can give many witnesses for my own
gifts...discernment, mercy, encouragement. So should you, David.
There's an old Yiddish word for it... bülshit.
K

==
Just an observation. I have never met a believer who did not believe
that one of their gifts was discernment.
Terry

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you
ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org
If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

RE: [TruthTalk] Judaizers within the Messianic Movement

2005-01-13 Thread Slade Henson

Some have it more than others. I can smell a rat from several states away,
too.

:)

Kay

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Terry Clifton
Sent: Thursday, 13 January, 2005 18.15
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Judaizers within the Messianic Movement


Slade Henson wrote:

I just skimmed most of this. But I'm not understanding why God would
allegedly tell you something contrary to His Wordsuch as this age of
this and that. Sounds like dispensationalism to mewhich is clearly NOT
Scriptural. I'm not going to debate over this, but I ask...was it God you
heard from, or something else? We already have the foundation regarding
prophets laid for us. The SAME foundation is continued in the Newer
Covenant.
   Maybe I'm touchy about this subject since being stuck in a cult-group
who
said much of the same things you're currently sayingthe Lord told me,
the Lord says...I had a dreamI had an awesome dream. I've been there,
done that, and don't care to do it again. We were taken  advantage of,
preyed upon, treated like crap, had FOOD cut off from us and the
children...including our own food, mind you, because we were wicked,
horrible people who wouldn't bow down to the leader and his prophet and
do what he said, no matter WHAT he said. Darn tootin' when someone says the
same types of thingsit makes my skin crawl and makes me want to RUN and
never return. Darn tootin' I would ask for PROOF of someone's proclamation
of a certain gift, any of the gifts. I can give many witnesses for my own
gifts...discernment, mercy, encouragement. So should you, David.
There's an old Yiddish word for it... bülshit.

K


==
Just an observation.  I have never met a believer who did not believe
that one of their gifts was discernment.
Terry





--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know
how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6)
http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a
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[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know 
how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL 
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RE: [TruthTalk] Judaizers within the Messianic Movement

2005-01-12 Thread Slade Henson




I 
think Scripture says the false prophet is to be killed

Kay

  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of 
  ShieldsFamilySent: Tuesday, 11 January, 2005 
  22.59To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: RE: 
  [TruthTalk] Judaizers within the Messianic Movement
  
  
  
  SLADE'S NEWEST 
RESPONSE...
  Your last response about the sign of Jonah is 
  the
  same argument made by the ridiculous false prophet 
  Daniel John Lee (may 
  God
  not forget his iniquity). 
  
  
  Slade, Im curiouswhy did you say that? 
  Arent we supposed to walk in forgiveness, etc, etc? Just wondering what your 
  take on it is. 
Izzy

RE: [TruthTalk] Judaizers within the Messianic Movement

2005-01-12 Thread ShieldsFamily









Thats fine with me. However
didnt Jesus say something else? Could Slade please respond also? Id
seriously like to know when we should ask God to judge someone vs when we
should forgive and forget. Izzy











From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Slade Henson
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2005
7:06 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Judaizers
within the Messianic Movement







I think Scripture says the false prophet
is to be killed











Kay





-Original Message-
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of ShieldsFamily
Sent: Tuesday, 11 January, 2005
22.59
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Judaizers
within the Messianic Movement





SLADE'S NEWEST RESPONSE...

Your last response about the sign of Jonah is the

same argument made by the ridiculous false prophet Daniel John Lee (may God

not forget his iniquity). 



Slade, Im curiouswhy did you
say that? Arent we supposed to walk in forgiveness, etc, etc? Just
wondering what your take on it is. Izzy

Re: [TruthTalk] Judaizers within the Messianic Movement

2005-01-12 Thread Knpraise

In a message dated 1/12/2005 5:08:10 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


 I think Scripture says the false prophet is to be killed
 
Kay


:-)

Re: [TruthTalk] Judaizers within the Messianic Movement

2005-01-12 Thread David Miller

SLADE wrote:
 How do you KNOW you are a prophet?

When I first began receiving revelation (dreams and visions), the Lord told 
me that I was functioning as a prophet but that I should not advertise that 
I was functioning in this way.  He instructed me to tell others that 
inquired who I was that I was a brother in Christ.  I kept it this way for 
many years, but after I matured and learned more about the different 
administrations in the body of Christ, the Lord released me to inform others 
that I was a prophet because many do not know what a prophet is.  As I began 
to teach others about the function of apostles, prophets, evangelists, 
pastors and teachers, it became useful for me to use myself as an example of 
the prophetic ministry.

SLADE wrote:
 Yeshua was tempted to prove his deity.
 You are not deity, therefore the comparison is lacking.

No, I am not deity, but a prophet is a prophet because of what he receives 
from above.  There is a similar character that God requires of those whom he 
anoints for such jobs, that character of not defending oneself nor pushing 
oneself forward as somebody.

Slade wrote:
 Your last response about the sign of Jonah is the
 same argument made by the ridiculous false prophet
 Daniel John Lee (may God not forget his iniquity).

I am kind of surprised he did not try to oblige you.  He has made many false 
predictions.

Slade wrote:
 We, the normal Joe in the universe is to be given
 something to prove that a prophet should be listened
 to and you deny us the right to that proof.

This is one difference that I have discerned between the OT prophets and the 
NT prophets.  The OT prophets would give a sign.  This was the basis by 
which the Jews approached Jesus and asked him for a sign to prove that he 
was that Prophet spoken of by Moses.  I have sought the Lord on this subject 
rather diligently, because based upon my study of the Hebrew Scriptures, 
they had a right to ask for such a sign.  The Spirit told me that because it 
is the age of grace and faith, and especially now because the Spirit has 
been poured out upon all, it is prudent not to focus upon signs.  Instead, 
signs generally come in response to faith.  My interpretation of this is 
that there really is no normal Joe that is distinct from prophets, but 
rather all of those in Christ are priests and prophets unto God.  The only 
reason that some are identified as prophets is because they have a personal 
responsibility toward God to continue to function in the revelatory gifts 
and be an example to the body in this way with the hope that all will walk 
in the Spirit of revelation.

David Miller wrote:
 If you think that I do not measure up to what a prophet
 ought to be, that is your decision.  What we are in the
 body of Christ is something we do not have to protect
 or defend.  We are who we are.  Jesus told me that those
 who receive me receive him, and those who reject me
 reject him.  Therefore, I leave it all in the hands of my Lord.

SLADE wrote:
 Yeshua spoke that in response to Himself and His relationship
 with God... AS THE ONLY MEDIATOR BETWEEN GOD
 AND MAN.

That is not the only context in which he spoke this (see Luke 10:16), but I 
was referring to a personal revelation, not to Scripture which I would apply 
to myself.

Slade wrote:
 You are nowhere even CLOSE to the majesty
 of Yeshua.

Are you saying that you do not believe that Christ lives in me and through 
me?

Slade wrote:
 You are hiding behind some of the worst Biblical
 interpretations I've seen on TruthTalk. You are not
 the mediator between man and Yeshua. If this is
 what you believe, I am in the wrong discussion group.

LOL.  I have never claimed to be a mediator between man and Yeshua.  Nobody 
needs me to follow Yeshua.  You misunderstand my Biblical interpretations 
and twist almost everything I say.  Why?  I kind of feel as if you are 
trying to catch me in my words to demonstrate some fault in me somewhere.

Peace be with you.
David Miller. 


--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know 
how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL 
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RE: [TruthTalk] Judaizers within the Messianic Movement

2005-01-12 Thread Slade Henson




Prophets who speak lies are very apt to pull people away from the Holy 
One, therefore, may God never forget theiniquity of ALLfalse 
prophets. That's why God says to kill them.Should they repent and NEVER 
PROPHESY AGAIN nor CLAIM to be a prophet, may G-d forgive them. Daniel Lee knows 
he falsely prophesies, yet he claims he repents but HE CONTINUES TO DO IT! In 
fact, he gave over 70 prophesies in a month's time or so. Talk about being 
possessed! May God not forget his iniquity. On the other hand, may God bring him 
to TRUE repentance.

Prophets, we are told, are to be obeyed until they are proven wrong. When 
one claims to be a prophet, how are we to gauge their prophetic calling? Do we 
do the "christian" thing and say, "By Jove! That man sez heez a proffet! He's 
gotta be rite until heez rong?" No we do not. What the prophet says will come 
true and will be fact. It's not out of the question for proof of his prophesy. 
If anything, it's honorable to ask for proof. It's dishonorable to hide behind 
misappropriated Scripture.

-- 
slade

  -Original Message-From: 
  ShieldsFamilySent: Tuesday, 11 January, 2005 
  22.59Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Judaizers within the Messianic 
  Movement
  
  
  SLADE'S NEWEST 
RESPONSE...
  Your last response about the sign of Jonah is 
  the
  same argument made by the ridiculous false prophet 
  Daniel John Lee (may 
  God
  not forget his iniquity). 
  
  
  Slade, Im curiouswhy did you say that? 
  Arent we supposed to walk in forgiveness, etc, etc? Just wondering what your 
  take on it is. 
Izzy

RE: [TruthTalk] Judaizers within the Messianic Movement

2005-01-12 Thread Slade Henson

-Original Message-From: David MillerSent:
Wednesday, 12 January, 2005 18.45Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Judaizers within
the Messianic MovementDAVIDM...When I first
began receiving revelation (dreams and visions), the Lord told me that I was
functioning as a prophet but that I should not advertise that I was functioning
in this way. He instructed me to tell others that inquired who I was that I was
a brother in Christ. I kept it this way for many years, but after I matured and
learned more about the different administrations in the body of Christ, the Lord
released me to inform others that I was a prophet because many do not know what
a prophet is. As I began to teach others about the function of apostles,
prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers, it became useful for me to use
myself as an example of the prophetic ministry.SLADE...How
clear was this message? Was it riddled with parables? Was the message clear,
concise, and very much to the point?

DAVID...No, I am not deity, but a prophet is a
prophet because of what he receives from above. There is a similar character
that God requires of those whom he anoints for such jobs, that character of not
defending oneself nor pushing oneself forward as
somebody.SLADE...Interesting nonanswer. A teacher, a Rabbi,
and that rare person with a Helping Heart are what they are because of what
he/she receives from above; therefore your statement lends no support to your
assertion. Also, I did not ask for you to defend yourself, I simply requested
that you give a proof to your claim. This request on my part is perfectly
acceptable. You, yourself agree when you stated, The OT prophets would give a sign. This was the basis by
which the Jews approached Jesus... they had a
right to ask for such a sign. I claim that right as well,
but the Newer Testament" [wannabe] prophets deny this right. You have done the
same. If you are a prophet, you should not fear! The Spirit of the Holy One
guards and guides your lips. Speak it forth, brother. If you are a prophet, let
u all glory in God over this rare find. If not... the Spirit never spoke through
you and you deceived not only yourself but others as well.

DAVID...This is one difference that I have
discerned between the OT prophets and the NT prophets. The OT prophets would
give a sign. This was the basis by which the Jews approached Jesus and asked him
for a sign to prove that he was that Prophet spoken of by Moses. I have sought
the Lord on this subject rather diligently, because based upon my study of the
Hebrew Scriptures, they had a right to ask for such a sign. The Spirit told me
that because it is the age of grace and faith, and especially now because the
Spirit has been poured out upon all, it is prudent not to focus upon signs.
Instead, signs generally come in response to faith. My interpretation of this is
that there really is no "normal Joe" that is distinct from prophets, but rather
all of those in Christ are priests and prophets unto God. The only reason that
some are identified as prophets is because they have a personal responsibility
toward God to continue to function in the revelatory gifts and be an example to
the body in this way with the hope that all will walk in the Spirit of
revelation.SLADE...Herein lies the problems. When Peter, the
apostle to the Jewish people his letter, he wrote it to the exiles (the
dispersion). Within this context, Peter mentions that the recipients of this
letter are holy priesthood. There was no mention of prophet. You have
erroneously inserted this. Your statement [and I paraphrase] that prophets are
different in the NT than they were in the OT is justification to slide yourself
into the office of prophet. Again, your statement that there really is no "normal Joe" that is distinct from
prophets rings true for me because of the prophetic nuances of
the Spirit I spoke of before. This, in itself, if NOT the prophetic
gift.

DAVID MILLER wrote two emails ago...If you
think that I do not measure up to what a prophet ought to be, that is your
decision. What we are in the body of Christ is something we do not have to
protect or defend. We are who we are. Jesus told me that those who
receive me receive him, and those who reject me reject him. Therefore, I
leave it all in the hands of my Lord.SLADE wrote two emails
ago...Yeshua spoke that in response to Himself and His relationship with
God... AS THE ONLY MEDIATOR BETWEEN GOD AND MAN.DAVID wrote...That is not the only context in which he spoke this (see Luke
10:16), but I was referring to a personal revelation, not to Scripture which I
would apply to myself.SLADE now says...Speak in His name, and
I'll agree with you. STOP speaking in David Miller's name so I
can stop disagreeing.

SLADE wrote...You are nowhere even CLOSE to the majesty of
Yeshua.DAVID replied...Are you saying that you
do not believe that Christ lives in me and through me?SLADE now
responds...This is

RE: [TruthTalk] Judaizers within the Messianic Movement

2005-01-11 Thread Slade Henson

-Original Message-
From: David Miller
Sent: Monday, 10 January, 2005 11.26
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Judaizers within the Messianic Movement

DAVIDM...
Well, I am not one of those kinds who says, I AM A PROPHET.  As I said
before, I tend to be one who runs from the call when it comes (like Jonah).
I try to find excuses why not to go or why somebody else should go.  I am
trying to do better, but I still have a lot of room for growth.

SLADE...
How do you KNOW you are a prophet?

SLADE PREVIOUSLY...
 So which are you!?! The never give a word type,
 an occasional word type, or the always a word
 type?
DAVID RESPONDED...
I don't recognize these different types that you have outlined.  There are
true prophets and false prophets, and I believe that I am of the true
variety.  Of course, it would be ridiculous to think that there exists a
prophet who never gives a word.  That's like saying there is a baker who
never bakes or a teacher who never teaches or an evangelist who never
evangelizes.

SLADE'S NEWEST RESPONSE:
Ok, you understand my point. However, I have never met a true prophet,
though I believe true prophets exist.

SLADE PREVIOUSLY...
 Are you willing to test the mettle of
 your prophetic gift?
DAVIDM RESPONDED...
No, not really. I don't want to tempt God. I take the temptation of Jesus
in the wilderness seriously. Satan challenged him on whether or not he
really was the son of God. Jesus was tempted to prove himself, but he did
not.  The Pharisees also asked him for a sign to prove who he was, and Jesus
said that an evil and adulterous generation seeks for such signs, but no
sign would be given them but the sign of Jonah.

SLADE'S NEWEST RESPONSE...
Yeshua was tempted to prove his deity. You are not deity, therefore the
comparison is lacking. Your last response about the sign of Jonah is the
same argument made by the ridiculous false prophet Daniel John Lee (may God
not forget his iniquity). We, the normal Joe in the universe is to be given
something to prove that a prophet should be listened to and you deny us the
right to that proof. I can only surmise that you are not what you claim, but
it's clear by your next statement that you don't care either.

DAVID M...
If you think that I do not measure up to what a prophet ought to be, that is
your decision.  What we are in the body of Christ is something we do not
have to protect or defend.  We are who we are.  Jesus told me that those who
receive me receive him, and those who reject me reject him.  Therefore, I
leave it all in the hands of my Lord.

SLADE...
Yeshua spoke that in response to Himself and His relationship with God... AS
THE ONLY MEDIATOR BETWEEN GOD AND MAN. You are nowhere even CLOSE to the
majesty of Yeshua. You are hiding behind some of the worst Biblical
interpretations I've seen on TruthTalk. You are not the mediator between man
and Yeshua. If this is what you believe, I am in the wrong discussion group.

-- slade

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know 
how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

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RE: [TruthTalk] Judaizers within the Messianic Movement

2005-01-11 Thread ShieldsFamily













SLADE'S NEWEST RESPONSE...

Your last response about the sign of Jonah is the

same argument made by the ridiculous false prophet Daniel John Lee (may God

not forget his iniquity). 



Slade, Im curiouswhy did you
say that? Arent we supposed to walk in forgiveness, etc, etc? Just
wondering what your take on it is. Izzy

Re: [TruthTalk] Judaizers within the Messianic Movement

2005-01-10 Thread David Miller

Slade wrote:
 Here's where the problem arises. I know many
 who claim the prophetic gift, but never proclaim
 anything. I hear the declaration I AM A PROPHET
 as if they deserve my reverence, yet they never speak
 a word from the LORD.

Well, I am not one of those kinds who says, I AM A PROPHET.  As I said 
before, I tend to be one who runs from the call when it comes (like Jonah). 
I try to find excuses why not to go or why somebody else should go.  I am 
trying to do better, but I still have a lot of room for growth.

Slade wrote:
 So which are you!?! The never give a word type,
 an occasional word type, or the always a word
 type?

I don't recognize these different types that you have outlined.  There are 
true prophets and false prophets, and I believe that I am of the true 
variety.  Of course, it would be ridiculous to think that there exists a 
prophet who never gives a word.  That's like saying there is a baker who 
never bakes or a teacher who never teaches or an evangelist who never 
evangelizes.

Slade wrote:
 Are you willing to test the mettle of
 your prophetic gift?

No, not really.  I don't want to tempt God.  I take the temptation of Jesus 
in the wilderness seriously.  Satan challenged him on whether or not he 
really was the son of God.  Jesus was tempted to prove himself, but he did 
not.  The Pharisees also asked him for a sign to prove who he was, and Jesus 
said that an evil and adulterous generation seeks for such signs, but no 
sign would be given them but the sign of Jonah.

If you think that I do not measure up to what a prophet ought to be, that is 
your decision.  What we are in the body of Christ is something we do not 
have to protect or defend.  We are who we are.  Jesus told me that those who 
receive me receive him, and those who reject me reject him.  Therefore, I 
leave it all in the hands of my Lord.

Peace be with you.
David Miller. 


--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know 
how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

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Re: [TruthTalk] Judaizers within the Messianic Movement

2005-01-10 Thread David Miller

Slade wrote:
 ... there is a grace I can give since you are
 not a prophet ... You see, we all have Yeshua
 dwelling within us, and Yeshua IS the spirit of
 prophesy.

This is so true.  Prophets are not meant to be held on some ideological 
pedestal.  They serve as examples of one aspect of Christ, an aspect that 
exists within every believer who has the testimony of Christ.  Teachers 
serve as examples of teaching, but all believers may teach.  Evangelists 
serve as examples of evangelizing, but all believers may evangelize. 
Prophets serve as examples of prophesying, but all believers may prophesy.

What you should be careful about, however, is what Paul warned the 
Corinthians about.

1 Corinthians 12:20-23
(20) But now are they many members, yet but one body.
(21) And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again 
the head to the feet, I have no need of you.
(22) Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, 
are necessary:
(23) And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, 
upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more 
abundant comeliness.

Peace be with you.
David Miller. 


--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know 
how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

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Re: [TruthTalk] Judaizers within the Messianic Movement

2005-01-10 Thread David Miller

Slade wrote:
 Saying the Messianic Movement is of God makes
 no sense within the context of this message.

This comment tells me that you have misunderstood my post, because without 
this context, what I wrote could be easily twisted.  This thread began weeks 
ago.  Following is what I wrote on Dec. 23, 2004:

--
- Original Message - 
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2004 10:04 AM
Subject: [TruthTalk] The Messianic Movement

Slade wrote:
 You see Hebrew Mindset being placed on a pedestal.
 I see more people calling it cultic and dangerous.

People often ask me what I think of the Messianic movement.  I always start
my reply with the statement that I believe the Messianic movement is of God.
However, these days I find myself needing to follow it up with a warning of
dangerous elements within the movement.  There indeed are cultic and
dangerous elements there.  Sometimes I point out how the charismatic
movement was once mostly pure, but as it progressed, many false shepherds
entered it and made quite a quagmire out of it.  I suppose the same thing
can be said of Christianity in general, so we really should not be
surprised.

I have always appreciated studying the Hebrew mindset because it does at
times bring fresh light upon various passages of Scripture.  Nevertheless,
on TruthTalk there has been numerous comments to the effect that anyone who
expresses a Greek kind of thinking must be in error.  It is the rationality
of guilt by similarity, like saying, Hitler was a Lutheran Christian so all
Christians are like Hitler.  While it might be true that an overemphasis
upon Greek thought could lead some of us into error, exactly the same thing
could be said about an overemphasis upon Hebrew thinking.  This becomes
especially obvious when we realize that the Hebrew mind, for the most part,
rejected Yeshua HaMashiach.

snip

Therefore, I don't think Greek thinking is taboo, neither is Hebrew
thinking.  God has reached out to all of mankind, first to the Hebrews, then
to the Greeks.  Each culture has its perspective that makes different
aspects of God comprehensible.
--

Kay then asked me to clarify my sentence that mentioned dangerous elements 
within this move of God known as the Messianic Movement.

David Miller wrote:
 The dangerous aspects are those within the movement
 who emphasize shadows over reality.

Slade wrote:
 The problem with this statement is the subjectivity of
 your definition of shadows. You are clearly one who
 sees Newer Testament fulfillment of Older Testament
 shadows as nullifying these OT shadows in favor
 of NT realities.

I do not believe that observing shadows nullifies reality.  So your 
perception of me is false.

Slade wrote:
 Again, you make it clear that those of a different
 theological slant than you are considered dangerous.

No, I do not believe this at all.  What I consider dangerous are those 
extremists who emphasize the shadows OVER reality.

Imagine a statue which casts a shadow, and a group of people want to study 
and understand this statue.  Most start looking at the statue itself and 
handling it and describing it.  Someone in the group notices the shadow of 
the statue and wonders why everyone is ignoring it, so he goes over there 
and starts describing the shadow.  Nothing wrong with that, but suppose he 
begins to argue with the ones looking at the statue itself that there is no 
way they will ever understand the statue unless they come down there to 
where he is and study the shadow with him.  In fact, he insists that the 
actual statue is a distraction, and that all attention needs to shift 
immediately and permanently to the shadow.  At this point, I think that such 
a person would represent a danger to the groups goal of understanding the 
statue.  This would be analagous to what I was trying to say about those 
individuals within the Messianic movement who emphasize the shadow over 
reality.

Slade wrote:
 I hear obedience touted on this board a lot
 [by you and Judy Taylor], yet when one claims
 to be obedient, they are dangerous.

No, obedience is not dangerous, but there is danger in certain types of 
legalism.  You have taught this yourself.

Slade wrote:
 Are you are being double-minded or setting us
 up to fail? Again, this argument is rooted in ignorance.
 When Messiah returns, we will be celebrating the
 Sabbath, the New Moons, Feast of Tabernacles,
 etc., yet you oppose it.

I have never opposed celebrating these events.  Like I said, you 
misunderstand me.

Slade wrote:
 You are suggesting a schizoid faith I want no part of.
 I'd rather me pagan. Perhaps Dave Hanson and I have
 more in common than you and I.

Wow!  I did not realize that, but if you say so.

David Miller wrote:
 of circumcision of the flesh in addition to
 circumcision of the heart, etc.

Slade wrote:
 In addition to? Is there a

Re: [TruthTalk] Judaizers within the Messianic Movement

2005-01-09 Thread Knpraise

In a message dated 1/8/2005 7:34:08 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

The dangerous aspects are those within the movement who emphasize shadows over reality.



News flash  Truth is "dangerous." The above comments, once again, have nothing to do with the actual debate itself. Whether an aspect of a movement is "dangerous" is of no logical consequence to the discussion at hand -- but, oh how we love to press our judgment as if that carried some weight in the determination of "truth." 

Christ's claims were considered "dangerous." So what ? !! It seems to me that a better use of script would be to simply stick to the subject. 

Jd

RE: [TruthTalk] Judaizers within the Messianic Movement

2005-01-09 Thread Slade Henson




Unfortunately DavidM decided this was a major reason that the Messianic 
Movement is dangerous. I am merely quoting DavidM in this manner. Please know 
that in my last email, the courier font was DavidM.

-- 
slade

  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Sunday, 09 January, 2005 
  04.18To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: 
  [TruthTalk] Judaizers within the Messianic MovementIn a message dated 1/8/2005 7:34:08 PM Pacific Standard Time, 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
  The dangerous aspects are those within the movement who 
emphasize shadows over reality.News flash 
   Truth is "dangerous." The above 
  comments, once again, have nothing to do with the actual debate 
  itself. Whether an aspect of a movement is "dangerous" is of no 
  logical consequence to the discussion at hand -- but, 
  oh how we love to press our judgment as if that carried some weight in the 
  determination of "truth." Christ's claims were considered 
  "dangerous." So what ? !! It seems to me that a better use 
  of script would be to simply stick to the subject. 
Jd

RE: [TruthTalk] Judaizers within the Messianic Movement

2005-01-07 Thread Slade Henson

-Original Message-
From: David Miller
Sent: Wednesday, 05 January, 2005 10.00
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Judaizers within the Messianic Movement

*slade snipped a bunch to talk about later*

DAVID M
I believe that a prophet who speaks in the name of the Lord must be error
free in the messages that he declares to be a word from the Lord.  A man or
woman who commits error in such a message is a false prophet.  Nevertheless,
prophets do not always speak in this way.  Prophets do not cease to be men
or women who no longer need to study, so the idea that they are always right
in their opinions or exegesis of Scriptures is not true.  I might note also
that some prophets do not even study the Scriptures.

There are many different types of prophets, both in OT and NT times.  The
prophets Abraham, Moses, David, Daniel, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, and John
the Baptist all functioned differently.  David ministered prophetically
primarily through song.  Ezekiel through pantomine.  Moses through
leadership and mighty miracles.  John the Baptist without either miracle or
many great prophetic statements concerning the future (other than the all
important one concerning the appearance of Messiah in his generation).

SLADE
In the first paragraph, you qualify a message given as the word from the
LORD must be error free. This is true. You then state prophets do not
always speak in this way. Lastly, you say that prophets are men who err. Ok.
I can agree to a point because even Elijah needed assurance from the LORD
that he was not the last of his kind (you know the story about the 4000 who
never bent a knee).

Here's where the problem arises. I know many who claim the prophetic gift,
but never proclaim anything. I hear the declaration I AM A PROPHET as if
they deserve my reverence, yet they never speak a word from the LORD. It's
easy to be error free if you never give a word. The, of course you have
the complete jag-off who throws the a word from the lord around like it's
candy at a parade and the consistency of their error is shocking! Those are
the JERKS that need to be stoned, wiped from the message boards, and
surgically altered to never speak or write again.

So which are you!?! The never give a word type, an occasional word type, or
the always a word type? Are you willing to test the mettle of your prophetic
gift?

Second paragraph later.

-- slade

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know 
how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

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Re: [TruthTalk] Judaizers within the Messianic Movement

2005-01-07 Thread Knpraise

In a message dated 1/7/2005 2:54:05 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Those are
the JERKS that need to be stoned, wiped from the message boards, and
surgically altered to never speak or write again.


LOL -- I gotta admit. 

John

"surgically altered" LOL

Re: [TruthTalk] Judaizers within the Messianic Movement

2005-01-07 Thread Knpraise

In a message dated 1/7/2005 5:10:17 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:



LOL -- I gotta admit. 

John

"surgically altered" LOL 

I'm still laughing  maybe a red beer or two before you write that second paragraph. I did ask David what would be an acceptable test for his claim. Still waiting for an answer. Not a big deal to me, however. I have seen a number of prophets - they are numerous in the pentecostal tradition. Absolutely none of them were consisted correct in their several prophecies -- some were surprisingly accuratewhile others missed the mark entirely. Most "prophetic words" (actually, all such utterances I have heard over the years) given in a church settings are general words of praise or warning -- nothing specific. 

John

RE: [TruthTalk] Judaizers within the Messianic Movement

2005-01-07 Thread Slade Henson

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of David Miller
Sent: Wednesday, 05 January, 2005 10.00
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Judaizers within the Messianic Movement

DAVIDM
There are many different types of prophets, both in OT and NT times. The
prophets Abraham, Moses, David, Daniel, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, and John
the Baptist all functioned differently. David ministered prophetically
primarily through song. Ezekiel through pantomine. Moses through leadership
and mighty miracles. John the Baptist without either miracle or many great
prophetic statements concerning the future (other than the all important one
concerning the appearance of Messiah in his generation).

SLADE
You claim these prophets all functioned differently. Why? I see their
function as identical! You have spoken of Ezekiel's pantomime and David's
shirim. You see different function here while I understand this as different
modes/genres by which they prophesied. Their function -- the intent of the
prophesy -- is identical. THIS is the function you contradicted in your
email that prompted my response. (You will notice I have not elucidated the
function; this is an innate understanding in the prophet and I would like to
hear your take on this singular function of the prophet.)

However, there is a grace I can give since you are not a prophet [from my
limited understanding] and I do not wish to embarrass you or anyone else.
You see, we all have Yeshua dwelling within us, and Yeshua IS the spirit of
prophesy. This prophetic nuance of the Spirit of the Holy One can often
confuse a believer into thinking they are a prophet... when in fact, they're
feeling just what everyone else experiences... a nonverbal response to this
prophetic nuance.

-- slade

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know 
how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

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RE: [TruthTalk] Judaizers within the Messianic Movement

2005-01-05 Thread Slade Henson

My wife thinks I was cruel in this post. Let
me qualify... What a terrible thing
to say

This means, "What!?" I am shocked that you
would make such a claim! Do you believe everyone who doesn't share your
beliefs are dangerous... or is it just the JEWS??
In this post, you have proven the
falseness of your prophetic claim.

Most people I know do not
understandhow the Prophetic Office is/was used by God. Most people who
claim to be prophets really aren't, but they certainly wish they were... as if
the Office affords them special privilege or elevates them above "Ordinary
Mortal." I certainly hope this is not you.
When I look at the prophets in Scripture and
when I look at the function of the prophet as outlined by Moshe, your
statement against Messianics proves that you either do not understand your
office and have failed, or you are a false prophet, or what's outlined in the
next paragraph applies. I prefer to believe in your misunderstanding of the
office, but I also realize the possibility of the second.
The difference in opinion [regarding the
Prophetic Office in the Older Testament vs. the Newer Testament] may be such
that we may be "speaking through" a perceived change in the office. What I
mean is that many people believe that much changed because of Messiah's death,
burial, and resurrection... and it's possible that they also believe the
Prophetic Office and how it functions in the Qahal/Ekklesia is different now
(for instance, many believe the Prophet does not need to be error free now).
Is this your belief? The "NewTestament" Prophet function differently
than the "Old Testament" prophet?
-- slade
-Original Message-From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED][mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of David MillerSent: Tuesday, 04 January, 2005
12.20To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Judaizers
within the Messianic MovementSlade wrote: What a terrible
thing to say. In this post, you have proven the falseness of your
prophetic claim.Why? I hope you don't think prophets are perfect in
knowledge. I hope youdon't think prophets are perfect
communicators.Peace be with you.David Miller.

Re: [TruthTalk] Judaizers within the Messianic Movement

2005-01-05 Thread David Miller

Slade wrote:
 This means, What!? I am shocked that you
 would make such a claim! Do you believe
 everyone who doesn't share your beliefs are
 dangerous... or is it just the JEWS??

I think you very much have misunderstood my post.  I testified that the 
Messianic movement is of God, but qualified that with the observation that 
like all movements of God, there are some dangerous elements within it. 
These would be those who function like the Judaizers in Paul's day.  Kay 
asked for clarification on that statement and this is the context in which 
my post ought to be understood.

Slade wrote:
 Most people I know do not understand how the Prophetic
 Office is/was used by God. Most people who claim to be
 prophets really aren't, but they certainly wish they were...
 as if the Office affords them special privilege or elevates them
 above Ordinary Mortal. I certainly hope this is not you.

I have no desire to be a prophet.  If I desired anything, it would be to be 
an apostle of Christ because they are my heroes.  The truth is that I have 
no more chosen to be a prophet than I have chosen to be born a male. 
Unfortunately, I have acted in the past very much like Jonah in fleeing the 
call.  This is one reason why I am least among God's prophets, probably not 
fit to be called one, and a speck in the ocean of time.

Slade wrote:
 When I look at the prophets in Scripture and when
 I look at the function of the prophet as outlined by
 Moshe, your statement against Messianics proves
 that you either do not understand your office and
 have failed, or you are a false prophet, or what's
 outlined in the next paragraph applies.

Or, perhaps I am a poor communciator and you have misunderstood what I was 
trying to communicate in that post.  :-)

Slade wrote:
 I prefer to believe in your misunderstanding of
 the office, but I also realize the possibility of the
 second. ... many believe the Prophet does not
 need to be error free now). Is this your belief?
 The New Testament Prophet function differently
 than the Old Testament prophet?

I believe that a prophet who speaks in the name of the Lord must be error 
free in the messages that he declares to be a word from the Lord.  A man or 
woman who commits error in such a message is a false prophet.  Nevertheless, 
prophets do not always speak in this way.  Prophets do not cease to be men 
or women who no longer need to study, so the idea that they are always right 
in their opinions or exegesis of Scriptures is not true.  I might note also 
that some prophets do not even study the Scriptures.

There are many different types of prophets, both in OT and NT times.  The 
prophets Abraham, Moses, David, Daniel, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, and John 
the Baptist all functioned differently.  David ministered prophetically 
primarily through song.  Ezekiel through pantomine.  Moses through 
leadership and mighty miracles.  John the Baptist without either miracle or 
many great prophetic statements concerning the future (other than the all 
important one concerning the appearance of Messiah in his generation).

I hope these comments help us communicate better.

Peace be with you.
David Miller. 


--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know 
how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

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RE: [TruthTalk] Judaizers within the Messianic Movement

2005-01-05 Thread Slade Henson

No, they didn't call themselves Messianic. I was mistaken in my earlier post
of thinking they may have. I know now what they called themselves...did a
little research.

Kay



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Jeff Powers
Sent: Tuesday, 04 January, 2005 17.26
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Judaizers within the Messianic Movement


Kay, If I remember correctly, they didn't call themselves Messianic. I can't
remamber what they did call themselves though. On the other hand, I don't
care either! I'm just glad I only spent a week with the wackos! It was more
than enough for me.
Jeff

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know 
how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

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Re: [TruthTalk] Judaizers within the Messianic Movement

2005-01-05 Thread Jeff Powers

Apostolic Pentacostal Seventh day Holiness brotherhood, yada, yada? Been 
trying to remember myself. I wish I could remember. And no folks, I'm not 
picking on anyone here if it seems like it. Those people were very weird!
Jeff
- Original Message - 
From: Slade Henson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 10:08
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Judaizers within the Messianic Movement


No, they didn't call themselves Messianic. I was mistaken in my earlier 
post
of thinking they may have. I know now what they called themselves...did a
little research.

Kay

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Jeff Powers
Sent: Tuesday, 04 January, 2005 17.26
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Judaizers within the Messianic Movement
Kay, If I remember correctly, they didn't call themselves Messianic. I 
can't
remamber what they did call themselves though. On the other hand, I don't
care either! I'm just glad I only spent a week with the wackos! It was 
more
than enough for me.
Jeff

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may 
know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) 
http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a 
friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.


--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org
If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

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