Re: Ubuntu Software Store: What it does, and how you can help
Just to report progress on this discussion - sabdfl has decided to adopt the name Software Center. The comments on this thread were very helpful, as were the forum [1] and brainstorm [2] discussions/votes which showed pretty clear opinions among the community. If interested you can track the progress here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/software-store/+bug/436648 [1] http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1256242 [2] http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/21362 -- Matthew East http://www.mdke.org gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Ubuntu Software Store: What it does, and how you can help
Greetings, On Sat, Sep 26, 2009 at 10:45:55AM +0100, Matthew East wrote: On Sat, Sep 26, 2009 at 10:29 AM, Iain Lane la...@ubuntu.com wrote: Cool. Glad to see that community input is listened to. What does this mean for the store metaphor throughout the rest of the application? I don't think there is a strong metaphor running through the application. That would be inconsistent with the idea that the name store had two meanings. The only thing I can see is the use of the word Departments on the first screen, right? It's not wholly out of place even with the change of name, but I guess it could be changed to Categories or similar. I'm sure the project developers will take a decision on that. I remember seeing a Shelf* combo somewhere, but indeed I cannot find it now so it was probably excised already. Regards, Iain * Or something similar signature.asc Description: Digital signature -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Ubuntu Software Store: What it does, and how you can help
Steve Langasek wrote: On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 04:14:44PM +0100, Matthew Paul Thomas wrote: It would be cool if Debian and Ubuntu packagers could work together to address this in the Packages.gz format. I think this is unlikely to wind up in the Packages file in Debian over concerns about increasing the size of this index for all users with information not used by the package manager per se. But I agree it would be nice to make this information available to the software store, perhaps via an adjunct metadata file on the servers. And that metadata file can then be generated automatically using the machine-readable debian/copyright file spec we discussed last UDS. Thanks, Scott Ritchie -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Ubuntu Software Store: What it does, and how you can help
On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 04:14:44PM +0100, Matthew Paul Thomas wrote: It would be cool if Debian and Ubuntu packagers could work together to address this in the Packages.gz format. I think this is unlikely to wind up in the Packages file in Debian over concerns about increasing the size of this index for all users with information not used by the package manager per se. But I agree it would be nice to make this information available to the software store, perhaps via an adjunct metadata file on the servers. -- Steve Langasek Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS Debian Developer to set it on, and I can move the world. Ubuntu Developerhttp://www.debian.org/ slanga...@ubuntu.com vor...@debian.org -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Ubuntu Software Store: What it does, and how you can help
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Dylan McCall wrote on 01/09/09 18:15: ... I'm a bit concerned about using price to distinguish things here. The price: free thing is flawed, because it furthers the misconception that free software is only free in price, when in fact being free in price is quite irrelevant. Software with price: $20 may still be free as in libré, which deserves credit! Is get free software going to display stuff with price == 0.00, or is it going to display software that is _free_? It will display stuff that is free in the sense most computer users understand it, i.e. free as in zero price. It would be cool if the Store could also present whether a package had a free or proprietary license, and if it did, I would specify that it should present free licenses as open source -- not because I particularly like that term, but because calling them free would be unacceptably confusing. Currently, however, there is no way for the Store to tell whether an arbitrary package in an arbitrary repository has a free or proprietary license. debian/copyright isn't machine-readable, and isn't included in Packages.gz anyway. We can assume that everything in Main (except Firefox and Thunderbird) has a free license, and that everything on archive.canonical.com has a proprietary license, but that's about it. It would be cool if Debian and Ubuntu packagers could work together to address this in the Packages.gz format. Will this thingy be connecting to Launchpad? It would be neat to get linked to code, bugs and answers directly from the store :) ... We plan to link it to Launchpad in the sense that Launchpad will store user-submitted suggestions for improved descriptions, categories, keywords, and screenshots/movies, as well as ratings and reviews (though these might be submitted directly in the Store rather than in a Web interface). I don't see what we would gain from linking directly to Launchpad Code, Bugs, and Answers, though. It would seem to make more sense to link to Launchpad from the applications themselves, and launchpad-integration already does this. And Ubuntu has too many bug reports, not too few. Cheers - -- Matthew Paul Thomas http://mpt.net.nz/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkqpF+AACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecqJfACgv2lGsdy15taxFhIiCtHYdzhA qGUAn3bkDocUenuA2uhtqOAJMZlEMK7a =Q8Cl -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Ubuntu Software Store: What it does, and how you can help
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Greg Grossmeier wrote on 28/08/09 14:56: ... Just double checking that I understand this part correctly: we're going to have a line in every single software package description in all of the Ubuntu repositories that says Price: Free? EDIT: Just confirmed this with mpt on #ubuntu-devel and he pointed me to this bug: https://launchpad.net/bugs/419295 (thanks, mpt) From a librarian's point of view (you've solicited our help, and I have the degree) that seems like an awful waste of space for something that will only being Price: !Free 0.001% of the time. How do you know that? In the iPhone App Store, for example, 77 % of the applications have a non-zero price. Be explicit when needed, don't clutter the user's view with information that practically never changes. I would suggest _only_ showing Price information when there _is_ a price. As I explained in the bug report, that would cause a Simon-says problem, where the way to verify that something was free would be to check that there was no 'Price:' row anywhere on the page. My point: Explicitly saying Free to counteract the fact that it is called a Store seems like a lot of work to fix a problem that is avoidable by calling it something other than a Store. ... I would have specified that that line should be there regardless of what the program was called. Cheers - -- Matthew Paul Thomas http://mpt.net.nz/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkqc32MACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecoBdQCdFVxObXGJBR05IqDbd/zlcaMS 2AIAoMrX2VjOubYxf2d+wfMMrt6sHwmP =NWyZ -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Ubuntu Software Store: What it does, and how you can help
On Fri, 2009-08-28 at 11:07 +0100, Matthew Paul Thomas wrote: The nifty thing about store is that it has those two meanings -- shop, and repository I don't agree. Store primarily means a place where you *purchase* things. The secondary meaning of a repository implies that it's somewhere that *you* can store software you have, not somewhere that you obtain new software (for free). Scott -- Scott James Remnant sc...@canonical.com signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Ubuntu Software Store: What it does, and how you can help
On Tue, 2009-09-01 at 17:04 +0200, Siegfried Gevatter wrote: I have to add my voice in that I strongly dislike the name containing Store, for the already echoed reasons. Software Center or even Add/Remove... are much better names, IMHO. How about Software Zone or Ubuntu Zone... ;) I think we are underestimating the users by thinking that only name which includes a word Store will convey the right meaning! A more innovative name can be used! -- Cheers, mac_v -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Ubuntu Software Store: What it does, and how you can help
On Tue, Sep 01, 2009 at 10:16:20AM -0700, ajmctaggart wrote: I definitely agree Bazaar could be confused with bzr,...But it is a word that seems to align well with Ubuntu and the goals, etc...maybe we just need It does align nicely, although I think it'd be a strange name for anyone not familiar with CatB. Also, it seem in terms of meaning, isn't a bazaar still a place to buy things? It seems like we want to express these ideas in the name... A place to EXCHANGE A free MARKET for individuals to grab packages, libs, etc. A LIBRARY in terms of order, documentation, cataloging, etc. A CENTRAL location to handle all things related to SOFTWARE'S INSTALLATION, UPDATES, DEPENDENCIES,etc I really think that Libraries and Open Markets are great descriptors for what is trying to be accomplished here... Can't wait until someone suggests Software Pantry ;-) Bryce -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Ubuntu Software Store: What it does, and how you can help
On Tue, Sep 01, 2009 at 09:19:27PM +0530, mac_v wrote: On Tue, 2009-09-01 at 17:04 +0200, Siegfried Gevatter wrote: I have to add my voice in that I strongly dislike the name containing Store, for the already echoed reasons. Software Center or even Add/Remove... are much better names, IMHO. How about Software Zone or Ubuntu Zone... ;) I think we are underestimating the users by thinking that only name which includes a word Store will convey the right meaning! A more innovative name can be used! I hate to step into this tussle, but is this thread bike-shed painting a bit much? I've no idea if the name even can be changed, but if it can input is going to be better listened to from people with hammers and chisels than pitchforks and torches. Bryce -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Ubuntu Software Store: What it does, and how you can help
On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 8:16 AM, Alan Pope a...@popey.com wrote: _like_ Package Bazar. Given we already have a concept of 'packages' On Tue, Sep 01, 2009 at 08:42:41AM -0700, ajmctaggart wrote: post, or bazzar? So what evokes this idea of a trading post or a bazaar in Given that this word has been spelt three different ways in two posts, it appears to fail the easy to spell test. ;-) Bryce -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Ubuntu Software Store: What it does, and how you can help
Le mardi 01 septembre 2009 à 10:15 -0700, Dylan McCall a écrit : snip I'm a bit concerned about using price to distinguish things here. The price: free thing is flawed, because it furthers the misconception that free software is only free in price, when in fact being free in price is quite irrelevant. Software with price: $20 may still be free as in libré, which deserves credit! Is get free software going to display stuff with price == 0.00, or is it going to display software that is _free_? Agreed. I'd suggest we use Licence: free, and Licence: proprietary - Price: X € when applicable (and also Licence: shareware if needed). That way, we emphasize the difference between free software and others, and we don't clutter our UI with ugly prices when they aren't relevant. We could even remove the Licence: part, and display the kind of software directly. Hope this helps - and I'm all against the Store phrasing BTW :-p -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Ubuntu Software Store: What it does, and how you can help
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Loïc Martin wrote on 28/08/09 12:20: ... We all seem to be copying the App Store from Apple (nothing wrong with that), but perhaps the part we should change isn't so much the first part in App Store, but the second one? After all, both provide the same goods (Apps), while we'll be trying to differentiate on the experience (Store vs a different word). ... In the short term, version 2.0 of the Store will provide thousands of software packages that are not applications, such as fonts, themes, codecs, and screen savers. In the long term, I am pretty sure that in twenty years, software will still exist and be publicly relevant. I am much less certain that applications will. Cheers - -- Matthew Paul Thomas http://mpt.net.nz/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkqahXgACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecqYyACfRXXeNJ7SE6dVP/Zlp/0oBVMQ 3jkAniCAiq1kFgCq8XfrQ89xduUK6i2u =gkna -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Ubuntu Software Store: What it does, and how you can help
My vote is for Software Center. Pros and cons: + Software is more general in meaning (more than just apps) and it seems to be the the most used term and already the term chosen at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareStore. + Some lawers could also claim that AppCenter is too close to Apple's AppStore and thus infridge on their trademark. + Center indicates the place of control and tells the user that this is the place to do your software operations. I think this is exactly what the tools is about. + Center and does not hint that the user needs to buy the stuff like Store does. However, Center can also include items that require payment, since Center has a broad meaning. + Center is easy to translate. At least I can't think of any translation to Store in Finnish that could also mean Warehouse. Also most of the world population who do not speak English as their primary langauge associate Store with a shop and not as a place where something is stored. If you want to rename something into store, then rename repositories into stores. - Center should be Centre in UK English, but I think this is such a small issue that you shouldn't bother. If some user is really annoyed by this, he/she can always switch to the UK English translated interface. -- | Otto Kekäläinen | http://www.sange.fi/ -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Ubuntu Software Store: What it does, and how you can help
On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 8:28 PM, Danny Piccirillodanny.picciri...@gmail.com wrote: So does this mean no packagekit? I knew plans for it in karmic had been dropped but this appcenter will replace Add/Remove instead? Would it be possible and/or worth it to base it on packagekit? Danny, as per https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareStore: The implementation is based on Add/Remove Applications (gnome-app-install), but may use PackageKit for some components. -- Matthew East http://www.mdke.org gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Ubuntu Software Store: What it does, and how you can help
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Matthew East wrote on 28/08/09 07:47: On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 8:28 PM, Danny Piccirillodanny.picciri...@gmail.com wrote: So does this mean no packagekit? I knew plans for it in karmic had been dropped but this appcenter will replace Add/Remove instead? Would it be possible and/or worth it to base it on packagekit? Danny, as per https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareStore: The implementation is based on Add/Remove Applications (gnome-app-install), but may use PackageKit for some components. Actually, that's been out of date for a couple of days: the Store no longer includes Add/Remove Applications code. I've just fixed it: The Store is implemented using Python, GTK, and Aptdaemon, and may use PackageKit for some components. Cheers - -- Matthew Paul Thomas http://mpt.net.nz/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkqXrYMACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecoXSgCeOXSH6ItDEWXQ1S2bwwIVKo3Q Z5oAn1dQUC4Dg556MW5fqEo8GegzLqMB =40Hn -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Ubuntu Software Store: What it does, and how you can help
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Matthew East wrote on 27/08/09 20:20: On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 7:49 PM, Przemek Kulczyckiprzemekkulczy...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 8:31 PM, Matthew Eastm...@ubuntu.com wrote: ... Now, AppCenter has a brand name: the Ubuntu Software Store. ... Doesn't store imply that the user will be paying for the software? I really liked center. Center was unfortunately off-limits because it lacks cross-Atlantic compatibility, i.e. it differs in US English vs. British English spelling, and foreign spelling irritates people. (Catalog had the same problem.) Only for the Americans I guess :) Those who learned British English will understand store as a warehouse/stock. Well, I don't know any free warehouses either... But I'm British, and my primary understanding of a store is an online or physical place where I can purchase things. Anyhow, Ubuntu's primary locale is US English, so I think a discussion of the name should proceed on the basis that the name should work in US English. I can see from the spec (and LP answer 81103) that it will be possible to purchase software from this app in the future, but it will also be possible to get software for free there, and for that reason I think a neutral name that fits both is preferable. The nifty thing about store is that it has those two meanings -- shop, and repository -- and both of them are appropriate. But you're right that the shop meaning is more prominent. So as long as the Store doesn't yet contain paid software, we're counteracting that by using the section heading Get Free Software in the navigation, and Price: Free in the screens for individual applications. Unfortunately the naming was one thing that had to be done within Canonical, for boring legal reasons. Cheers - -- Matthew Paul Thomas http://mpt.net.nz/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkqXrFkACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecpDzwCgkywLYFvtV3aUyX8vdbDy778g /GoAoKXc7ThuXh/i9gav/oZUWVmn495p =1gd/ -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Ubuntu Software Store: What it does, and how you can help
On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 11:07 AM, Matthew Paul Thomasm...@canonical.com wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Matthew East wrote on 27/08/09 20:20: On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 7:49 PM, Przemek Kulczyckiprzemekkulczy...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 8:31 PM, Matthew Eastm...@ubuntu.com wrote: ... Now, AppCenter has a brand name: the Ubuntu Software Store. ... Doesn't store imply that the user will be paying for the software? I really liked center. Center was unfortunately off-limits because it lacks cross-Atlantic compatibility, i.e. it differs in US English vs. British English spelling, and foreign spelling irritates people. (Catalog had the same problem.) I don't get that at all. Center appears elsewhere in our desktop (Help Center) and it is simply translated by the ubuntu-l10n-en-gb team to read Centre for those users who use that language. As Przemysław pointed out, Store is a hell of a lot more difficult to translate. The nifty thing about store is that it has those two meanings -- shop, and repository -- and both of them are appropriate. But you're right that the shop meaning is more prominent. So as long as the Store doesn't yet contain paid software, we're counteracting that by using the section heading Get Free Software in the navigation, and Price: Free in the screens for individual applications. I saw that, but the problem is that people will not open the app in the first place. I saw the name Ubuntu Software Store before I saw your email explaining what it was, and it didn't occur to me that it could be anything other than a shop (probably a website) for buying programs. The comments on this thread so far have been unanimous about this... Unfortunately the naming was one thing that had to be done within Canonical, for boring legal reasons. I assume that's to do with trademarks. But surely it's not too late to make the right decision about this. Is Ubuntu Software Center legally prohibited? -- Matthew East http://www.mdke.org gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Ubuntu Software Store: What it does, and how you can help
On Fri, 2009-08-28 at 11:07 +0100, Matthew Paul Thomas wrote: I can see from the spec (and LP answer 81103) that it will be possible to purchase software from this app in the future, but it will also be possible to get software for free there, and for that reason I think a neutral name that fits both is preferable. The nifty thing about store is that it has those two meanings -- shop, and repository -- and both of them are appropriate. But you're right that the shop meaning is more prominent. So as long as the Store doesn't yet contain paid software, we're counteracting that by using the section heading Get Free Software in the navigation, and Price: Free in the screens for individual applications. Cheers - -- Matthew Paul Thomas Why is there a need to specify Price: Free in every software description when the user is already in a Get Free Software Category? This seems an overkill. Adding a new Get Paid Software category in the future and listing the price in only those paid software's description should be sufficient. -- Cheers, mac_v -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Ubuntu Software Store: What it does, and how you can help
(Adding ubuntu-desktop back to cc) On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 2:22 PM, Mackenzie Morganmaco...@gmail.com wrote: On Friday 28 August 2009 6:44:30 am Matthew East wrote: I saw that, but the problem is that people will not open the app in the first place. I saw the name Ubuntu Software Store before I saw your email explaining what it was, and it didn't occur to me that it could be anything other than a shop (probably a website) for buying programs. The comments on this thread so far have been unanimous about this... OK, I'll break it. I didn't assume the Ubuntu App Store would be all for-pay stuff, since well...the iTunes App Store isn't. There are tons of free (gratis) programs for iPhones available in there. So why should this App Store be any different? Fair enough, everyone is entitled to their own opinion and a snap survey of how different people react to this title is not unhelpful, I think. But I'd be disturbed if the conception of store in the majority of our users' understanding is affected by a naming scheme handed down by iTunes rather than plain English. It's also probably the case that the iTunes App Store does have much more commercially orientated goals than the Ubuntu Software Store. I haven't got an iPhone, so I hadn't come across this name. I do have a blackberry though. The blackberry equivalent is called BlackBerry App World. -- Matthew East http://www.mdke.org gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Ubuntu Software Store: What it does, and how you can help
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Matthew East wrote on 28/08/09 11:44: On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 11:07 AM, Matthew Paul Thomas m...@canonical.com wrote: ... Center was unfortunately off-limits because it lacks cross-Atlantic compatibility, i.e. it differs in US English vs. British English spelling, and foreign spelling irritates people. (Catalog had the same problem.) I don't get that at all. Center appears elsewhere in our desktop (Help Center) As I suggested two years ago, Ubuntu Help would be quite enough for that particular case. http://launchpad.net/bugs/144787 and it is simply translated by the ubuntu-l10n-en-gb team to read Centre for those users who use that language. While it is obvious to, for example, someone fluent only in Italian that they should switch Ubuntu into Italian, it is not so obvious to someone who is fluent only in UK English (or who is setting up a computer for someone fluent only in UK English) that they should switch Ubuntu into UK English. The result is that some proportion of UK English speakers using Ubuntu will inevitably use it in the US English locale. I am not suggesting that words with different US English vs. UK English spellings should be verboten in Ubuntu interface text. But where can easily avoid those words in prominent places, like names of programs, we might as well. As Przemysław pointed out, Store is a hell of a lot more difficult to translate. ... I'm not a translator, but it's pretty obvious to me that you'll rarely be able to capture every nuance of a brand name when translating it. Instead, concentrate on choosing a name that is compelling in that particular language. (And try not to infringe any trade marks.) Cheers - -- Matthew Paul Thomas http://mpt.net.nz/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkqYGTgACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecodSgCeP+KhCIVXMGOKX3BSnNBoKD8n u0YAn0J4btcj+nK/DaxlU1TpEgj8n+q4 =iOw4 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Ubuntu Software Store: What it does, and how you can help
On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 6:51 PM, Matthew Paul Thomasm...@canonical.com wrote: Matthew East wrote on 28/08/09 11:44: On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 11:07 AM, Matthew Paul Thomas m...@canonical.com wrote: ... Center was unfortunately off-limits because it lacks cross-Atlantic compatibility, i.e. it differs in US English vs. British English spelling, and foreign spelling irritates people. (Catalog had the same problem.) I don't get that at all. Center appears elsewhere in our desktop (Help Center) As I suggested two years ago, Ubuntu Help would be quite enough for that particul You're probably right about that, but I don't think the use of American English was part of your reasoning there. The reasoning is about removing redundancy. and it is simply translated by the ubuntu-l10n-en-gb team to read Centre for those users who use that language. While it is obvious to, for example, someone fluent only in Italian that they should switch Ubuntu into Italian, it is not so obvious to someone who is fluent only in UK English (or who is setting up a computer for someone fluent only in UK English) that they should switch Ubuntu into UK English. The result is that some proportion of UK English speakers using Ubuntu will inevitably use it in the US English locale. I am not suggesting that words with different US English vs. UK English spellings should be verboten in Ubuntu interface text. But where can easily avoid those words in prominent places, like names of programs, we might as well. For me, what you are saying boils down to that there are a small proportion of users using the wrong locale, and a small portion of those will feel irritated by the fact that the wrong locale they are using contains foreign spellings. Even if that's true, I don't think that's a good reason for choosing a name for the app which carries commercial undertones and seems likely to confuse a larger proportion of people. But anyway, I don't think it's really true, because as far as I'm aware people get the right locale when they install Ubuntu. I think if people are getting the wrong locale, that's a usability issue or just a straight bug that can be fixed. If a user gets the wrong locale from their own choice or a mistake by a system administrator, I don't think it's fair of them to blame Ubuntu just because the desktop uses that locale! The proportion of those who do will be very small: let's face it, us English speakers around the world understand each other fine and understand and accept each other's differences. We use American English consistently throughout applications and documentation. That's why our en-gb translation team exists, and it does a great job because I've never seen American English in my desktop. Not that I'd mind... As Przemysław pointed out, Store is a hell of a lot more difficult to translate. ... I'm not a translator, but it's pretty obvious to me that you'll rarely be able to capture every nuance of a brand name when translating it. Instead, concentrate on choosing a name that is compelling in that particular language. (And try not to infringe any trade marks.) Yes, one should do that. My point is mainly that this isn't a compelling name. In this case I think the difficulty in translating the name is in fact borne out of the fact that it's not a good name in the first place. The secondary point is that if you have a choice, you can also consider how the name is likely to work in other languages and weigh that up together with other considerations. -- Matthew East http://www.mdke.org gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Ubuntu Software Store: What it does, and how you can help
On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 7:49 PM, Przemek Kulczyckiprzemekkulczy...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 8:31 PM, Matthew Eastm...@ubuntu.com wrote: Hi Matthew, On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 4:43 PM, Matthew Paul Thomasm...@canonical.com wrote: Now, AppCenter has a brand name: the Ubuntu Software Store. http://launchpad.net/software-store And it has a package in Ubuntu Karmic: software-store. http://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/software-store Looking forward to trying this. I had a quick browse through the wiki page but couldn't find any discussion about the name, so here goes. Doesn't store imply that the user will be paying for the software? I really liked center. Only for the Americans I guess :) Those who learned British English will understand store as a warehouse/stock. Well, I don't know any free warehouses either... But I'm British, and my primary understanding of a store is an online or physical place where I can purchase things. Anyhow, Ubuntu's primary locale is US English, so I think a discussion of the name should proceed on the basis that the name should work in US English. I can see from the spec (and LP answer 81103) that it will be possible to purchase software from this app in the future, but it will also be possible to get software for free there, and for that reason I think a neutral name that fits both is preferable. -- Matthew East http://www.mdke.org gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
