Re: LATIN CAPITAL LETTER SHARP S officially recognized

[Christoph Päper via Unicode]

Letters in some scripts are a class of two or more characters. Usually, all 
letters have the same number of such case variants. Rarely, characters may be 
constituents of different letters within the same script. A closed set of 
letters, usually with a canonical sort order, makes an alphabet. Every writing 
system employs exactly one alphabet for each script it supports. Most writing 
systems only support a single script. Writing systems may have multiple 
systematically related orthographies, i.e. rules for combining letters into 
graphemes and these into words.

Any Unicode case pair is intended to be equivalent to a letter, but in some 
cases fails to be this. It fails in the case of Turkish , because every 
character can only be part of a single case pair. It fails in the case of 
German <ß>, because a categorical error (that cannot be corrected for 
compatibility and stability reasons) had been made: a grapheme rule was 
recorded as a letter rule.

Re: LATIN CAPITAL LETTER SHARP S officially recognized

[Philippe Verdy via Unicode]

True but this only applies to "simple case mappings" (those in the main
datatase), not to extended mappings (which are locale dependant, such as
mappings for dotted and undotted i in Turkish).

So the extended mappings can perfectly be changed for German: they are not
part of the stability policy and designed to be extensible. And this is
where you find the existing mapping from ß to SS (lossy case conversion),
that will change to ẞ (non lossy case conversion).



2017-06-30 18:48 GMT+02:00 Mathias Bynens via Unicode :

> On Fri, Jun 30, 2017 at 5:34 PM, Michael Everson via Unicode
>  wrote:
> >
> > It would be sensible to case-map ß to ẞ however.
>
> I’m hoping this can happen — converting ß to SS is lossy, so mapping
> to ẞ would be far superior.
>
> However, 
> says:
>
> “If two characters form a case pair in a version of Unicode, they will
> remain a case pair in each subsequent version of Unicode.
>
> If two characters do not form a case pair in a version of Unicode,
> they will never become a case pair in any subsequent version of
> Unicode.”
>
> 
>
>

Re: LATIN CAPITAL LETTER SHARP S officially recognized

[Mathias Bynens via Unicode]

On Fri, Jun 30, 2017 at 5:34 PM, Michael Everson via Unicode
 wrote:
>
> It would be sensible to case-map ß to ẞ however.

I’m hoping this can happen — converting ß to SS is lossy, so mapping
to ẞ would be far superior.

However,  says:

“If two characters form a case pair in a version of Unicode, they will
remain a case pair in each subsequent version of Unicode.

If two characters do not form a case pair in a version of Unicode,
they will never become a case pair in any subsequent version of
Unicode.”



Re: LATIN CAPITAL LETTER SHARP S officially recognized

[Michael Everson via Unicode]

It would be sensible to case-map ß to ẞ however.

> On 30 Jun 2017, at 16:29, Otto Stolz via Unicode  wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> 
> der Rat für deutsche Rechtschreibung which is responsible for the further 
> development of the official German orthography has finally recognized LATIN 
> CAPITAL LETTER SHARP S as a possible upper-case equvalent for the LATIN SMALL 
> LETTER SHARP S.
> 
> The report announcing the change is dated 2016-12-08, but the official rules 
> have been updated only yesterday, so the change is currently in the news (not 
> very prominently, though).
> 
> The pertinent section from the official 2107 rules reads thusly:
>> § 25 E3
>> Bei Schreibung mit Großbuchstaben schreibt man SS. Daneben ist auch die 
>> Verwendung des Großbuchstabens ẞ möglich.  Beispiel: Straße – STRASSE 
>> –STRAẞE.
> 
> Which translates to:
>> When writing all caps, you spell SS. Alternatively, it is possible to use 
>> the upper-case ẞ. Example: Straße – STRASSE –STRAẞE.
> 
> So, SS remains the primary upper-case equivalent of ß. Yesterday’s note to 
> the press says that the capital ẞ is meant mainly for passports and similar 
> official documents, wich have to reproduce personal names faithfully in their 
> respective spelling variants. E. g., Passports used to distinguish proper 
> names such as GROẞMANN and GROSSMAN; up to now, they usually have spelled 
> GROßMANN, with a small ß between the capitals, which renders ugly, in most 
> fonts.
> 
> Best wishes,
>   Otto

LATIN CAPITAL LETTER SHARP S officially recognized

[Otto Stolz via Unicode]

Hello,

der Rat für deutsche Rechtschreibung which is responsible
for the further development of the official German ortho-
graphy has finally recognized LATIN CAPITAL LETTER SHARP S
as a possible upper-case equvalent for the LATIN SMALL
LETTER SHARP S.

The report announcing the change is dated 2016-12-08, but
the official rules have been updated only yesterday, so
the change is currently in the news (not very prominently,
though).

The pertinent section from the official 2107 rules reads thusly:

§ 25 E3
Bei Schreibung mit Großbuchstaben schreibt man SS.
Daneben ist auch die Verwendung des Großbuchstabens 
ẞ möglich.  Beispiel: Straße – STRASSE –STRAẞE.


Which translates to:

When writing all caps, you spell SS.
Alternatively, it is possible to use the upper-case ẞ.
Example: Straße – STRASSE –STRAẞE.


So, SS remains the primary upper-case equivalent of ß.
Yesterday’s note to the press says that the capital ẞ
is meant mainly for passports and similar official
documents, wich have to reproduce personal names faith-
fully in their respective spelling variants. E. g.,
Passports used to distinguish proper names such as
GROẞMANN and GROSSMAN; up to now, they usually have
spelled GROßMANN, with a small ß between the capitals,
which renders ugly, in most fonts.

Best wishes,
   Otto