Re: [Usability] Mac-style menubar in GNOME
Joachim Noreiko wrote: As the Mac-style menubar is likely to take some time, it might be a good idea to look at renaming the Menu Bar in the interim (or in fact, just *naming* it). System menu is what comes to my mind. I think those terms are used by other OSes (since it sounds familiar to me) but I don't know which. I've ever actually *used* that menu, except to get to the hopefully-soon-obsolete Search for Files). Yes, there is an ugly inconsistency between that and Nautilus's built-in search. (I do actually use that menu to open nautilus folders quickly. But having to click on a bit of desktop first to make it available is hardly a great cost.) I use the places menu *all the time*. Actually I wouldn't mind if there was an applet providing only the places menu ;-) This is especially useful for people that don't display mounts and remote places on the desktop. ___ Usability mailing list Usability@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/usability
Re: [Usability] Mac-style menubar in GNOME
On 9/16/06, Joachim Noreiko [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: One thing I might add to mpt's notes is: * integration with the current panel menubar How will it look? How do we on the one hand link the two menus together seamlessly to avoid GUI ugliness, yet make it visually clear which part is constant and which part changes? It might be worth thinking about reducing the three-menu menubar, perhaps returning to the single icon foot menu as a default. (For example, anytime you're using Nautilus, you'd have two Places menus, which currently have different contents.) Or two modes for the menu bar, one which looks like the current one (and keeps application menus in their own windows) and one which swallows the application menus and collapses the desktop menu into a single foot menu. But the real challenge clearly is to implement the menu swallowing in a portable way. Once that's available, we can still think about presentation details... Daniel ___ Usability mailing list Usability@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/usability
Re: [Usability] Mac-style menubar in GNOME
On Sep 13, 2006, at 2:47 AM, Zoran Rilak wrote: ... I'm working on a simple panel applet that would provide functionality similar to Mac's menu bar. Adding the applet would cause most menu bars to automagically disappear from their respective windows and migrate into the applet's area. Removing the applet would restore menubars to their parent windows. This is *excellent* news. I warn you, though, it won't be simple. :-) Obvious and contrived implementation issues aside, I would like to probe the list for any and all comments on the potential usability of such an applet (and analogously its potential testing user base). ... Short-term advantages: * Much faster, because the menu target area is near-infinitely high. * More compact, because there is only one menu bar on screen at once. * More predictable, because 99% of menus open down and to the right, regardless of where the window is. * Less confusing, because multiple menu bars on screen simultaneously sometimes result in people clicking the wrong one. Long-term advantages: * More consistent, because Nautilus can provide a menu bar for the desktop just like it does for folder windows. * More consistent, because Edit menu items (Undo, Redo, Cut, Copy, Paste, Delete, Select All, Check Spelling) can be made available for text fields in dialogs as well as for normal windows. * More consistent, because programs won't do things like not having an Edit menu (e.g. Gaim) just to save horizontal space. * More flexible, because programs with narrow windows can introduce full sets of menus without resorting to abbreviations (e.g. Xtns in Gimp), big grey parent windows (e.g. Photoshop for Windows), chevrons, or wrapping. * Simplifies the whole interface, because menus being easier to use reduces the number of controls desired in toolbars and elsewhere. Short-term disadvantages: * Requires clicking in a window before using its menus. * Can be slower, if your pointing device is (mis)configured such that you can't reach the top of the screen in a single motion. * Prevents using hover-to-focus (analogous to how CUA keybindings prevent using Emacs keybindings). Long-term gotcha: * For a global menu bar to achieve widespread use, XUL (Firefox and Thunderbird) and OpenOffice.org will both need to hook in to it. (Fortunately, there is precedent for this in XUL and NeoOffice on Mac OS X.) Suggestion: * When a child window without a menu bar (e.g. a dialog) is focused, instead of blanking the menu bar, show the menus of the parent window but disable them all. This will make the menu bar look more stable. Please keep us up to date with how you're getting on, and/or publish the code so others can help out. Cheers -- Matthew Paul Thomas http://mpt.net.nz/ ___ Usability mailing list Usability@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/usability
Re: [Usability] Mac-style menubar in GNOME
I made a half-hearted stab at a prototype (in Python) once, I'll see if I can dig it up. I found half of it. Here is a panel applet that shows the focused window's name (and min/max/close buttons) in the top menubar. You could probably hack it to show the focused window's menu instead. The code is very alpha. Run it like: $ ./titlebar-applet -w for a standalone window (for testing), or do the make install thing and then Add to Panel http://www.gnome.org/~nigeltao/python_applets/titlebar-applet-0.1-preview.tar.gz You might need to install the Python wnck bindings - I forget what package provides that. ___ Usability mailing list Usability@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/usability
Re: [Usability] Mac-style menubar in GNOME
On Wed, 2006-09-13 at 00:40 +0200, BJörn Lindqvist wrote: I'm working on a simple panel applet that would provide functionality similar to Mac's menu bar. Adding the applet would cause most menu bars to automagically disappear from their respective windows and migrate into the applet's area. Removing the applet would restore menubars to their parent windows. If you do it, you will be my god. Lead me to the code, Oh Master. Obvious and contrived implementation issues aside, I would like to probe the list for any and all comments on the potential usability of such an applet (and analogously its potential testing user base). You could start a religion. All hail Zoran ;) -- Ritesh Khadgaray LinuX N Stuff Ph: +919822394463 Eat Right, Exercise, Die Anyway. ___ Usability mailing list Usability@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/usability
Re: [Usability] Mac-style menubar in GNOME
On Sep 12, 2006, at 3:40 PM, BJörn Lindqvist wrote: I'm working on a simple panel applet that would provide functionality similar to Mac's menu bar. Adding the applet would cause most menu bars to automagically disappear from their respective windows and migrate into the applet's area. Removing the applet would restore menubars to their parent windows. A few issues: Keeping the menu current with the app that currently has input focus will be critical--any lag in menu bar switch and update will be nearly insurmountable as a usability problem You'll need to provide a way for the user to ascertain from the menubar what app has input focus. I find that occasionally (and heretically) the menu bar at the top of the screen is not what I want. If I have multiple apps open on my multiple-monitor desktop, I may have to move the pointer a great distance to get to the menu bar. As monitors grow, there is a tradeoff between having the menu bar always in the same place and impossible to overshoot versus close at hand in the current window. J. English Some Big Computer Compay ___ Usability mailing list Usability@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/usability
Re: [Usability] Mac-style menubar in GNOME
Më Mar , 2006-09-12 at 17:10 -0700, Justin English ka shkruar: I find that occasionally (and heretically) the menu bar at the top of the screen is not what I want. If I have multiple apps open on my multiple-monitor desktop, I may have to move the pointer a great distance to get to the menu bar. As monitors grow, there is a tradeoff between having the menu bar always in the same place and impossible to overshoot versus close at hand in the current window. A good example of this is the 30 Apple Cinema HD display. Go to the store and try to use the Mac hooked up on the display. The amount of distance one needs to travel to get to the menus is insane. I for one am totally against the menubar idea, and people haven't even gotten to the real hard issues yet. What happens if you have said applet on the side or bottom of the screen, or in some arbitrary position along the edge, rather than in a corner? The overshoot problem makes sense on Mac, because they don't have arbitrary panel objects. They have a menu bar. It doesn't fit well into GNOME, and just because Apple did it for Mac OS, doesn't mean it works well on every other toolkit/OS too. -- dobey ___ Usability mailing list Usability@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/usability
Re: [Usability] Mac-style menubar in GNOME
Obvious and contrived implementation issues aside, I would like to probe the list for any and all comments on the potential usability of such an applet (and analogously its potential testing user base). Some people will love it, and they will use it. Some people will hate it, and they won't use it. If it's optional, nobody gets hurt, so go for it. I made a half-hearted stab at a prototype (in Python) once, I'll see if I can dig it up. One thing that came up is that focus-follows-mouse will be really screwy, if in the motion from an app's window to the top menu bar, your mouse goes over (and focuses) another window. Unfortunately, I happen to like focus-follows-mouse. But that's an edge case we can deal with later... ___ Usability mailing list Usability@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/usability
