:
-Original Message-
From: Dakota Jack [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 16 November 2004 17:46
To: Struts Users Mailing List
Subject: Re: talking about paradigms
Bill,
Sounds like you don't need what XSLT provides. The
important thing, I
think, is to make sure
Point well taken, Frank. The complexity is real but is less severe
than the alternative of using repetitive relative simplicity requiring
you to recode the entire thing: brains instead of brute force. The
thing is always balancing the scales, right? Give a little get more
is the objective.
November 2004 04:22
To: Struts Users Mailing List
Subject: Re: talking about paradigms
IMHO, you have to be very careful with the XML/XSLT solution.
I worked on a project about two years ago (probably closer to three now
actually) where we had as a requirement the ability to deliver a fairly
]
Gesendet: Montag, 15. November 2004 20:46
An: Struts Users Mailing List; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Betreff: Re: talking about paradigms
The whole discussion about MVC and web frameworks is important, I
think, because not many cash it out when to do so (cash it
out) would
be helpful for discussion
Hello, Adam,
You are definitely right that this is a crucial part of any web
application, and not only for browsers but also for flash, javascript,
etc. versions. This is so important in the overall picture for web
programming that perhaps a whole separate set of interfaces amounting
to a
Jack,
What I found was that alot of Java code to generate XML (using DOM API)
had to be added in the controller layer to facilitate the view; for
example, an odd/even indicator was added just to facilitate striping on
the generated HTML table; to me, this seems downright overkill for some
Very interesting stuff, Adam. Very interesting!
I do not see the filter as determining what the view would be but
merely as providing data that would become part of the workflow as
kept in the View Stores. The view would decide on what it wanted to
do about this information in terms of
Bill,
Sounds like you don't need what XSLT provides. The important thing, I
think, is to make sure that the framework leaves that option open for
those that want it and does not require that option to those who do
not want it. I am not privy to the details of your application, of
course, but
Dakota,
You are assessment is correct -- this was an app that I was involved
with a few years back; I am not actively working with it now. The
architecture of the system used a hand-rolled front controller to access
pluggable actions; these actions accessed EJBs, then marshalled the
returned
-Original Message-
From: Dakota Jack [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 16 November 2004 17:46
To: Struts Users Mailing List
Subject: Re: talking about paradigms
Bill,
Sounds like you don't need what XSLT provides. The important thing, I
think, is to make sure
: talking about paradigms
Bill,
Sounds like you don't need what XSLT provides. The important thing, I
think, is to make sure that the framework leaves that option open for
those that want it and does not require that option to those who do
not want it. I am not privy to the details of your application
and don't need
multiple views.
Don
On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 17:59:48 -, Pilgrim, Peter
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
-Original Message-
From: Dakota Jack [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 16 November 2004 17:46
To: Struts Users Mailing List
Subject: Re: talking about paradigms
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2004 9:55 AM
Subject: Re: talking about paradigms
Jack,
What I found was that alot of Java code to generate XML (using DOM API)
had to be added in the controller layer to facilitate the view; for
example, an odd/even indicator
- Original Message -
From: Dakota Jack [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Struts Users Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2004 10:59 PM
Subject: Re: talking about paradigms
No pain no big bucks. Where'd you spend it Eddie? ;-) The think
part is the part I like. I have never been
On 2004-11-11 at 11:24:14 +0100, Rosenberg, Leon wrote:
-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: Mark Lowe [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 11. November 2004 11:04
An: Struts Users Mailing List
Betreff: Re: talking about paradigms
I don't think EL breaks the MVC
I think the idea that MVC architecture should have a 'dumb view' is totally
wrong. The view should be as smart as possible.
MVC should separate the M, V and C. With a really smart view you dont have
to do any preparation for the view in the controller. If you have a dumb
view then you have to
Mailing List
Subject: RE: talking about paradigms
I think the idea that MVC architecture should have a 'dumb view' is totally
wrong. The view should be as smart as possible.
MVC should separate the M, V and C. With a really smart view you dont have
to do any preparation for the view
Sorry, I haven't been following this thread, but I tend to agree with
you. I worked on an app that used XML/XSLT to achieve purity -- and
what resulted was a lot of this view helper data coded into the pure
XML document; defeating the premise behind separation of the model and view.
-Bill
The whole discussion about MVC and web frameworks is important, I
think, because not many cash it out when to do so (cash it out) would
be helpful for discussion. We might try some way of refering to this
such as WEBMVC. Anyway, the MVC pattern, taken literally, is
impossible in a web framework.
Leon,
Being a developer is like ... being a Jedi Knight. You seek the good and
thrive on it, but are forever tempted by the dark side. Eventually, you
give in to it and learn why it's evil and then go back to the light. That
is, unless you're so enthralled by the dark side that you become
AMEN TO THAT. What a PITA ... UGH I don't like that! PAIN!
Try to debug that mess!
- Original Message -
From: Bill Siggelkow [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, November 15, 2004 8:43 AM
Subject: Re: talking about paradigms
Sorry, I haven't been following this thread
Yet, Bill, that is not the problem of the XML/XSLT model, is it? That
model is really cool in separating the model from the view. Indeed,
that model is great at separating the view data from the view
presentation. I am not sure what the app you worked on did, but I
think the idea behind the
IMHO, you have to be very careful with the XML/XSLT solution.
I worked on a project about two years ago (probably closer to three now
actually) where we had as a requirement the ability to deliver a fairly
simple web app via normal HTML, but also WAP-based browsers, and also
the ability to
I don't think EL breaks the MVC pattern. Although it leaves you free
to do so if you so wish. I don't see a world appart from using
bean:write name=person property=name /
jsp:getProperty name=person property=name /
c:out value=${person.name} /
${person.name}
More to he point the fmt tag lib
On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 10:42:27 +0100, Rosenberg, Leon
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi,
since we started talking about paradigms... how does JSTL and especially
EL fit into MVC paradigm?
Much of JSTL is clearly about view tier stuff -- things like
conditionals and looping to dynamically include
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