On 29 Aug 06, at 1:55 PM 29 Aug 06, Eric Redmond wrote:
Hi all Maven users!
I'm beginning a study to outline the real reasons that people have for
avoiding Maven. My questions to you all are:
What were your anxieties about using Maven? If you use Maven: what
helped
you make the decision? If
I think a good solution to the problem would be more frequent
milestone builds (both core and plugins), and a publicly
available road map, giving people a good indication of when
they can expect to see what released.
+1 to that.
If Maven could help provide greater visibility on when the
On 31.08.2006, at 23:27, ArneD wrote:
After all, if can't trust your team to stick to approved
versions of artifacts how can you trust them to write your precious
business code?
I think it's not a question of mistrusting people, but a question
of how can
you help people to avoid mistakes.
Venisse [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sendt: 30. august 2006 11:43
Til: Maven Users List
Emne: Re: [POLL] Why switch to Maven?
Jan Vissers a écrit :
Maven's key strength is to say don't worry about trying to build
a jar / war / ear / sync with eclipse / autorun tests / publish
javadocs / etc
without copying or disclosing.
-Oprindelig meddelelse-
Fra: Arnaud HERITIER [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sendt: 30. august 2006 22:57
Til: Maven Users List
Emne: Re: [POLL] Why switch to Maven?
You're right but I would like to add that when we deploy a snapshot we
also deploy a timestamp version
to get tools mixed up with production software.
Anyway, Maven is a great piece of software, full of great ideas. But some
things still need to be improved before Maven has chances to achieve a wide
acceptance.
Arne
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Especially in large companies, it is often unacceptable to let users
download artefacts directly from an Internet repository, even not
through a
proxy.
I agree wholeheartedly - this was one of our biggest stumbling blocks
and one of the reasons we opted NOT to use a proxy and simply have an
environment succesfully in the end, and it
works quite well.
Regards,
Arne
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In the company that I helped setting up a Maven-based build environment, a
public site like ibiblio.org is considered a potentially unsafe source. Like
it or not. Only JARs that have been approved internally may be used for
production. (BTW, this was within finance industry which is partly quite
On 8/31/06, ArneD [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
... Afterwards you can disconnect
the proxy from Internet, or use the proxy's cache as your internal plugin
repository. (Keeping the proxy alive and connected to the Internet might
be
unacceptable because you want to evaluate new plugins before you
example, one might just not be aware of the fact
that Xerces is not in the company repository, but only in the plugin
repository.
Regards,
Arne
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that don't know how to
support NTLM.
Possible, but unnecessarily complicated, and far away from out-of-the-box.
Regards,
Arne
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,
-Original Message-
From: Jan Vissers [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 11:07 AM
To: Maven Users List
Subject: Re: [POLL] Why switch to Maven?
I'm reading a lot of we need about x weeks to convert to maven, the
learning curve is steep, it is messy but it works
I've been reading through a lot of the replies to the Poll this morning.
It seems to me that we need a tool the does the following to be more
productive with maven:
* Locates remote repositories, and potentially adds them to settings.xml
or pom.xml
* Let's us upload 3rd party libraries to
Note : I already switched to maven2.
My main problem at the moment is the lack of documentation :
* Lack of good documentation = indeed this is a problem (especially for
some plugins and for the hacking of custom phase)
* I have to build native/non-Java code = it is also a problem I
encounter : I
On Wed, August 30, 2006 7:37 am, Jan Vissers wrote:
I'm reading a lot of we need about x weeks to convert to maven, the
learning curve is steep, it is messy but it works, if it cannot be
done we can use ant...
More and more I'm getting the feeling that ANT still isn't such a bad
idea for
Maven's key strength is to say don't worry about trying to build a jar /
war / ear / sync with eclipse / autorun tests / publish javadocs / etc /
etc, because I already know how to do that, you go and do what you do
best, work on the primary code.
I would like this approach very much, but...
have
Jan Vissers a écrit :
Maven's key strength is to say don't worry about trying to build a jar /
war / ear / sync with eclipse / autorun tests / publish javadocs / etc /
etc, because I already know how to do that, you go and do what you do
best, work on the primary code.
I would like this
Jan Vissers wrote:
Maven's key strength is to say don't worry about trying to build a jar /
war / ear / sync with eclipse / autorun tests / publish javadocs / etc /
etc, because I already know how to do that, you go and do what you do
best, work on the primary code.
I would like this approach
I switched to Maven 2 because I was tired of Ant.
When one looks at a good Java project, one can find its way easyly
because there are well known architecturing and coding standards. There
are no such things with Ant. I remember trying to find my way in Ant
scripts calling other Ant scripts,
On 30.08.2006, at 11:43, Emmanuel Venisse wrote:
Jan Vissers a écrit :
Maven's key strength is to say don't worry about trying to
build a jar /
war / ear / sync with eclipse / autorun tests / publish
javadocs / etc /
etc, because I already know how to do that, you go and do what
you do
With all people being unsatisfied with the Maven documentation, it
sounds like an excellent opportunity for a new open source project; it
would allow lots of people to scratch their itch.
And the cool thing is, we could create the book entirely using Maven and
the Docbkx Maven Plugin
Ok ...well, then let me also sum up my pain points with maven2 over here.
o It updates itself and you might end up having different behaviours
across different installation. This should be fixable by an
appropriate release handling. SNAPSHOT dependencies should not be
allowed for a release
I would like this approach very much, but...
have you tried to publish javadocs/jxr/surefire/pmd... etc
for a multimodule project in an aggregated fashion?
It's implemented in snapshot version of javadocs/jxr plugins
I'm currently still on Maven 1, but I see this also as a Maven 2
On 8/30/06, Pierre-Yves Saumont [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I switched to Maven 2 because I was tired of Ant.
When one looks at a good Java project, one can find its way easyly
because there are well known architecturing and coding standards. There
are no such things with Ant. I remember trying
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 17:20:07 -0500
From: Eric Redmond [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Maven Users List users@maven.apache.org
Subject: Re: [POLL] Why switch to Maven?
On 8/29/06, Attila Mezei-Horvati
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
At my company we used ant to do the build files.
We
decided
notify the sender by replying the e-mail and delete the message without copying
or disclosing.
-Oprindelig meddelelse-
Fra: Emmanuel Venisse [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sendt: 30. august 2006 11:43
Til: Maven Users List
Emne: Re: [POLL] Why switch to Maven?
Jan Vissers a écrit :
Maven's
Preface: I make my living doing build management, and I have chosen m2
as the java build tool that I propose.
Another issue I seem to have with Maven is the difficulty in locating
(and the quality) of public repositories. I know of several (central,
codehaus, apache incubator, jboss,
11:43
Til: Maven Users List
Emne: Re: [POLL] Why switch to Maven?
Jan Vissers a écrit :
Maven's key strength is to say don't worry about trying to build a
jar / war / ear / sync with eclipse / autorun tests / publish
javadocs / etc / etc, because I already know how to do that, you go
and do
: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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--
Eric Redmond
://docs.codehaus.org/display/MAVENUSER?
I doubt I'll find time during the week, but I could start to structure it
(the FAQ) up during the weekend.
Regards,
Jimisola
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Sent from the Maven - Users forum
Hi all Maven users!
I'm beginning a study to outline the real reasons that people have for
avoiding Maven. My questions to you all are:
What were your anxieties about using Maven? If you use Maven: what helped
you make the decision? If you don't: why did you avoid it?
Here are some that I have
Sorry, I forgot to mention, I'm focusing soley on Maven 2.x
On 8/29/06, Eric Redmond [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi all Maven users!
I'm beginning a study to outline the real reasons that people have for
avoiding Maven. My questions to you all are:
What were your anxieties about using Maven? If
Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Eric Redmond
Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 10:55 AM
To: Maven Users List
Subject: [POLL] Why switch to Maven?
Hi all Maven users!
I'm beginning a study to outline the real reasons that people have for
avoiding Maven. My
2:10 PM
To: Maven Users List
Subject: RE: [POLL] Why switch to Maven?
This might be under your category of lack of good documentation:
the tool really doesn't help you determine what's happening.
The error messages are obscure, and there is now easy way to determine
what is even easily
?
-Original Message-
From: Heck, Joe [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 2:10 PM
To: Maven Users List
Subject: RE: [POLL] Why switch to Maven?
This might be under your category of lack of good documentation:
the tool really doesn't help you determine what's happening
The really bad documentation is already mentioned, and rightly so!
Also, I feel for multi module projects (every meaningful JEE project)
the reporting part is really awful.
There is no consistency in the reporting plugins.
Maven to me (still) looks like a great tool for single module
Maven to me (still) looks like a great tool for single module
applications/libraries - but not so much for big(ger) multi module apps.
-- When reporting is concerned.
Jan Vissers wrote:
The really bad documentation is already mentioned, and rightly so!
Also, I feel for multi module projects
PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 4:18 PM
To: Maven Users List
Subject: Re: [POLL] Why switch to Maven?
On 8/29/06, EJ Ciramella [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I second the horrible online documentation and add to that slow,
unreliable support via the mailing list.
I feel like m2 is great
* Lack of good documentation.
Rightfully at top of the list. Mergere's book was helpful, as was
Peopleware tutorial. There is a lack for a comprehensive article on
maven's concepts. It may sound like easy criticism but documentation
in source code is also somewhat scarce.
* Community
-Original Message-
From: Arnaud Bailly [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 5:05 PM
To: Maven Users List
Subject: Re: [POLL] Why switch to Maven?
* Lack of good documentation.
Rightfully at top of the list. Mergere's book was helpful, as was
Peopleware tutorial
: [POLL] Why switch to Maven?
Hi all Maven users!
I'm beginning a study to outline the real reasons
that people have for
avoiding Maven. My questions to you all are:
What were your anxieties about using Maven? If you
use Maven: what
helped
you make the decision? If you don't: why did you
convert existing projects into Maven.
Well, I hope I didn't hurt feelings. It was not my
intention. I am still trying to make maven work... :)
Attila
Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 10:55 AM
To: Maven Users List
Subject: [POLL] Why switch to Maven?
Hi all Maven users!
I'm beginning a study
I am a proponent of Maven 2.
We have converted a large, ant based build system, first to Maven 1.1,
and now to Maven 2.
There are many flaws. There are many bugs. Plugin configuration
documentation is especially poor. Configuration of plugins is
inconsistent. Etc., etc. The maven 2
Eric Redmond wrote:
I've began brainstorming on my little private wiki, if you care to peek:
http://www.propellors.net/wiki/index.php?title=Maven_Recipes
Thanks for this link! Saved for future reference :)
Rune
-
To
That's quite cool, and along the lines of what we discussed setting up
as the cookbook which would be blended into the site in the doc
discussions back in June on the dev@ list (I've reposted some links
for that recently if folks are interested in helping out with docs).
Hi,
i wanted to join the crowd :)
Maven1 was like some kind of magic to me back then, a sort of deus ex
machina. A smart ant (?). No convention over configuration stuff
yelled, it was messy but it worked. It was kinda nothing is unsolvable but
you got finally a huuge maven.xml -- and sure death.
I've just converted an application (JA-SIG CAS) from Maven 1 to Maven 2
in a relatively short period of time (maybe about 2 days) and I'm
completely enjoying my new Maven 2 experience :-) Now, of course, I ran
into the same documentation/plug-in configuration issues that everyone
else
On 8/29/06, Eric Redmond [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Here are some that I have heard in the past:
* Lack of good documentation.
* Community unwilling to help me with my problems.
* Not industry supported or mainstream enough.
* I don't like conforming to the Maven project layout.
* My project is
On 8/30/06, Russ Tremain [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I am a proponent of Maven 2.
[del]
So bottom line is: Maven 2 solves the dependency problem,
and works now, even for complex projects. The rest of the maven
strong points (standard build lifecycle, standard source layout, etc.)
are helpful,
How about the uneasy transition for Maven 1.x projects.
On 8/30/06, Eric Redmond [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi all Maven users!
I'm beginning a study to outline the real reasons that people have for
avoiding Maven. My questions to you all are:
What were your anxieties about using Maven? If you
I'm reading a lot of we need about x weeks to convert to maven, the
learning curve is steep, it is messy but it works, if it cannot be
done we can use ant...
More and more I'm getting the feeling that ANT still isn't such a bad
idea for building software. You can do a lot of the convention
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