Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Shortage of Fonts in LibreOffice 5.3.0.3

2017-03-01 Thread toki 
On 03/01/2017 06:58 PM, Steve Edmonds wrote:

> I came across this information that covers converting my type 1 fonts
> that may be useful.
> http://fontforge.github.io/en-US/documentation/scripting/

Whilst that works for FLOSS fonts, the vast majority of Type 1 Fonts are
proprietary, and such conversion would be, at best, a license violation.



jonathon

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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Shortage of Fonts in LibreOffice 5.3.0.3

2017-03-01 Thread Steve Edmonds 
Great discussion, I (followers of this list) have known for a long time 
type 1 would be dropped but this discussion kicked me into action.
I came across this information that covers converting my type 1 fonts 
that may be useful.

http://fontforge.github.io/en-US/documentation/scripting/
Steve

On 2017-03-01 11:32, toki wrote:

On 02/28/2017 06:08 PM, Bruce Byfield wrote:


The same argument could be used of TrueType fonts.

The days of TrueType fonts are numbered. However, OpenType support is
not yet universal.  :(


Why should they, when support for them remains?

Support for Type 1 is, at best, spotty.


designers have invested substantially in Type 1 fonts over the years,
and this decision leaves them stranded.

I fully sympathise with those that are using legacy typefaces,
especially because replacing them can be very expensive. (To quote an
email I received today for a typeface: MSRP US$500,000 on sale today for
only US$5,000. The included fonts are so ugly, that even if they were
gratis, one would be paying too much for them.)


chart of free font equivalents for proprietary fonts that I drew up about a 
year ago:

The difference between proprietary typefaces, and free typefaces, is
that the latter usually come in only one weight, whilst the latter
usually come with at least half a dozen weights.

jonathon







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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Shortage of Fonts in LibreOffice 5.3.0.3

2017-02-28 Thread toki 
On 02/28/2017 06:08 PM, Bruce Byfield wrote:

> The same argument could be used of TrueType fonts.

The days of TrueType fonts are numbered. However, OpenType support is
not yet universal.  :(

> Why should they, when support for them remains?

Support for Type 1 is, at best, spotty.

> designers have invested substantially in Type 1 fonts over the years, 
> and this decision leaves them stranded.

I fully sympathise with those that are using legacy typefaces,
especially because replacing them can be very expensive. (To quote an
email I received today for a typeface: MSRP US$500,000 on sale today for
only US$5,000. The included fonts are so ugly, that even if they were
gratis, one would be paying too much for them.)

> chart of free font equivalents for proprietary fonts that I drew up about a 
> year ago:

The difference between proprietary typefaces, and free typefaces, is
that the latter usually come in only one weight, whilst the latter
usually come with at least half a dozen weights.

jonathon




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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Shortage of Fonts in LibreOffice 5.3.0.3

2017-02-28 Thread Virgil Arrington 
This font thread has been interesting to me. As an end user, I don't 
know diddly about font technology. However, I am quite obsessive about 
fonts and making sure I get the right results.

I'm using LO 5.1.6.2 on Linux Mint 18. I also have an old Windows Vista 
machine with the same version of LO.

I recently noticed a really nice font feature on the Linux side of 
things. When using some fonts, I've found that LO automatically inserts 
ligatures for "fi" "ff" and "fl." Some fonts really require such 
ligatures in order to avoid having the "f" crash into the next letter. 
I've noticed that LO does this with Linux Libertine O (without the need 
for the Graphite engined Libertine "G"), OFL Sorts Mill Goudy, and the 
TexGyre family of fonts. It does *not* do this with the URW fonts or the 
Bitstream fonts included in my very old WordPerfect 7 CD. (For what it's 
worth, I've also noticed that this automatic ligature insertion does 
*not* happen on my Windows machine.)

At any rate, I really appreciate the automatic ligatures on these fonts, 
and it encourages me to ensure that I'm using OpenType rather than Type 
1 fonts.

Virgil


On 02/28/2017 12:51 PM, V Stuart Foote wrote:
> A. den Oudsten wrote
>> ...
>> Is there an argument for the decision to drop Type1. I use them in
>> LibreOffice since it exists.
> Several, but at its core PS Type 1 fonts have been on borrowed time since
> TrueType and OpenType were implemented.
>
> Users should have replaced or converted their fonts.  Of note, due to lack
> of PS Type 1 support in DirectWrite/Direct2D layout Microsoft dropped Type 1
> font use from Office 2013.
>
> In moving LibreOffice forward with HarfBuzz based common layout, support for
> PS Type 1 and bitmap fonts was dropped by design and ESC decision [1].
>
> At 5.3 with the "new" HarfBuzz  based common layout there is simply no
> support for the glyph mappings used with Type 1 PS fonts.  And at 5.4
> (current master) the "old" framework has been completely stripped out.
>
>
>> What/who can I approach to retract this decision?
> No one, the ESC decision was made and development proceeded accordingly.
> Functionally it can not be reversed as there is no support for PS Type 1 or
> Bitmap fonts  in current  HarfBuzz based common layout.  The HarfBuzz
> project would have to implement support for Type 1 and Bitmap fonts--and
> there is not much interest in doing so.
>
> A representative LibreOffice WONTFIX Bugzilla issue is  tdf#104701 - PS Type
> 1 URW fonts missing in LibreOffice...
>   , and for
> the related dropping support for old MS Bitmap fonts on Windows  tdf#103514
> -- MS bitmap fonts... not displayed with OpenGL rendering
> 
>
> =-ref-=
> http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/minutes-of-ESC-call-tc4198435.html
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: 
> http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Shortage-of-Fonts-in-LibreOffice-5-3-0-3-tp4208808p4209180.html
> Sent from the Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>


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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Shortage of Fonts in LibreOffice 5.3.0.3

2017-02-28 Thread A. den Oudsten 



Op 28-02-17 om 19:08 schreef Bruce Byfield:

On February 28, 2017 10:51:53 AM V Stuart Foote wrote:


Several, but at its core PS Type 1 fonts have been on borrowed time
since TrueType and OpenType were implemented.


The same argument could be used of TrueType fonts.


Users should have replaced or converted their fonts.


Why should they, when support for them remains?


Of note, due to
lack of PS Type 1 support in DirectWrite/Direct2D layout Microsoft
dropped Type 1 font use from Office 2013.


What about GIMP, Krita, Inkscape, and other free software, all of which
still support Type 1 fonts? These are applications that LibreOffice
users are likely to interact with.

Yes, Type 1 fonts are no longer state of the art. However, they remain
usable, and, if nothing else, are important for legacy documents. Many
designers have invested substantially in Type 1 fonts over the years,
and this decision leaves them stranded.

That said, anyone affected by this decision might be interested in the
chart of free font equivalents for proprietary fonts that I drew up
about a year ago:

http://www.linux-magazine.com/Online/Blogs/Off-the-Beat-Bruce-Byfield-s-Blog/Free-equivalents-for-standard-proprietary-fonts

Any additions to this table would be welcome.


STIXGeneral is a very good alternative for Classical Garamond

Andre

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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Shortage of Fonts in LibreOffice 5.3.0.3

2017-02-28 Thread Bruce Byfield 
On February 28, 2017 10:51:53 AM V Stuart Foote wrote:

>Several, but at its core PS Type 1 fonts have been on borrowed time
>since TrueType and OpenType were implemented.

The same argument could be used of TrueType fonts.

>Users should have replaced or converted their fonts.  

Why should they, when support for them remains?

>Of note, due to
>lack of PS Type 1 support in DirectWrite/Direct2D layout Microsoft
>dropped Type 1 font use from Office 2013.

What about GIMP, Krita, Inkscape, and other free software, all of which 
still support Type 1 fonts? These are applications that LibreOffice 
users are likely to interact with.

Yes, Type 1 fonts are no longer state of the art. However, they remain 
usable, and, if nothing else, are important for legacy documents. Many 
designers have invested substantially in Type 1 fonts over the years, 
and this decision leaves them stranded.

That said, anyone affected by this decision might be interested in the 
chart of free font equivalents for proprietary fonts that I drew up 
about a year ago:

http://www.linux-magazine.com/Online/Blogs/Off-the-Beat-Bruce-Byfield-s-Blog/Free-equivalents-for-standard-proprietary-fonts

Any additions to this table would be welcome.

-- 
Bruce Byfield 604.421.7189 (Pacific time)
Writer of "Designing with LibreOffice"
http://designingwithlibreoffice.com/

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[libreoffice-users] Re: Shortage of Fonts in LibreOffice 5.3.0.3

2017-02-28 Thread V Stuart Foote 
A. den Oudsten wrote
> ...
> Is there an argument for the decision to drop Type1. I use them in 
> LibreOffice since it exists.

Several, but at its core PS Type 1 fonts have been on borrowed time since
TrueType and OpenType were implemented. 

Users should have replaced or converted their fonts.  Of note, due to lack
of PS Type 1 support in DirectWrite/Direct2D layout Microsoft dropped Type 1
font use from Office 2013.  

In moving LibreOffice forward with HarfBuzz based common layout, support for
PS Type 1 and bitmap fonts was dropped by design and ESC decision [1].

At 5.3 with the "new" HarfBuzz  based common layout there is simply no
support for the glyph mappings used with Type 1 PS fonts.  And at 5.4
(current master) the "old" framework has been completely stripped out.


> What/who can I approach to retract this decision?

No one, the ESC decision was made and development proceeded accordingly. 
Functionally it can not be reversed as there is no support for PS Type 1 or
Bitmap fonts  in current  HarfBuzz based common layout.  The HarfBuzz
project would have to implement support for Type 1 and Bitmap fonts--and
there is not much interest in doing so.

A representative LibreOffice WONTFIX Bugzilla issue is  tdf#104701 - PS Type
1 URW fonts missing in LibreOffice...
  , and for
the related dropping support for old MS Bitmap fonts on Windows  tdf#103514
-- MS bitmap fonts... not displayed with OpenGL rendering
  

=-ref-=
http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/minutes-of-ESC-call-tc4198435.html



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[libreoffice-users] Re: Shortage of Fonts in LibreOffice 5.3.0.3

2017-02-28 Thread Alexander Thurgood 
Le 28/02/2017 à 17:09, A. den Oudsten a écrit :


> Indeed they are Type1, from WordPerfect 8 for Linux.
> Is there an argument for the decision to drop Type1. I use them in
> LibreOffice since it exists.
> What/who can I approach to retract this decision?

Well you could add a comment to the bug linked to below, but don't
expect anyone to take you up on it, as others have already tried :


https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=104701

See comment 11 in particular.


The decision was made by the Engineering Steering Committee, in order to
allow for implementation of the new rendering framework code.




Alex



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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Shortage of Fonts in LibreOffice 5.3.0.3

2017-02-28 Thread A. den Oudsten 



Op 27-02-17 om 11:24 schreef Alexander Thurgood:

Le 23/02/2017 à 19:42, A. den Oudsten a écrit :

Hi Andre,



I use OpenSUSE Tumbleweed.
In the new version of LibreOffice is a shortage of fonts. I can choose
104 fonts from the 171 available of my system fonts. So I missed - of
course - my favorate Classical Garamond.
´the asked font is not available and will be replaced´ is the only
message I get.



If the fonts in question are PS Type1, then they are no longer supported
in LibreOffice 5.3 - support was dropped for Type1 postscript fonts in
this release.

Alex


Indeed they are Type1, from WordPerfect 8 for Linux.
Is there an argument for the decision to drop Type1. I use them in 
LibreOffice since it exists.

What/who can I approach to retract this decision?

André






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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Shortage of Fonts in LibreOffice 5.3.0.3

2017-02-27 Thread Steve Edmonds 

Blow. I have dozens of type 1 fonts.
Guessing I will try to convert with fontforge or something.
Steve

On 27/02/17 11:24 PM, Alexander Thurgood wrote:

Le 23/02/2017 à 19:42, A. den Oudsten a écrit :

Hi Andre,



I use OpenSUSE Tumbleweed.
In the new version of LibreOffice is a shortage of fonts. I can choose
104 fonts from the 171 available of my system fonts. So I missed - of
course - my favorate Classical Garamond.
´the asked font is not available and will be replaced´ is the only
message I get.


If the fonts in question are PS Type1, then they are no longer supported
in LibreOffice 5.3 - support was dropped for Type1 postscript fonts in
this release.

Alex






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[libreoffice-users] Re: Shortage of Fonts in LibreOffice 5.3.0.3

2017-02-27 Thread Alexander Thurgood 
Le 23/02/2017 à 19:42, A. den Oudsten a écrit :

Hi Andre,


> I use OpenSUSE Tumbleweed.
> In the new version of LibreOffice is a shortage of fonts. I can choose
> 104 fonts from the 171 available of my system fonts. So I missed - of
> course - my favorate Classical Garamond.
> ´the asked font is not available and will be replaced´ is the only
> message I get.
> 

If the fonts in question are PS Type1, then they are no longer supported
in LibreOffice 5.3 - support was dropped for Type1 postscript fonts in
this release.

Alex



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