Hi,
But to move on: I'm intrigued that you refer to a 'continuo bass'
whereas in the context of Marini's songs I speak of an 'independent
bass' line.
I agree that a basso continuo (which I translated to 'continuo bass') may
have melodic interest, as in Il Verno.
In view of this, it
Where's the revolver?.
--- On Tue, 26/4/11, Monica Hall wrote:
From: Monica Hall
Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: Composition of short songs in early 17th
century Italy - was Marini - was Grenerin
To: "Lex Eisenhardt"
Cc: "Vihuelalist" , "
as being essential in such circumstances in fully realising
the composer's intentions.
regards
Martyn
--- On Tue, 26/4/11, Lex Eisenhardt wrote:
From: Lex Eisenhardt
Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: Composition of short songs in early 17th
century Italy - was Marin
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Composition of short songs in early 17th century
Italy - was Marini - was Grenerin
Dear Both of You
I have no idea what they believe, but in their (and others') writings I
see no word about having found references to the guitar + bowed string,
and I suppose a
Dear Martyn
My observations were withing the context of songs with an independent
basso part in addition to the guitar alfabeto, such as the Marini 1622
collection. Clearly, if only the alfabeto were present then I'd
generally expect only the guitar. I'd be very grateful if you'd read
Well - yes I agree with that.
Rgds
Monica
--- On Mon, 25/4/11, Monica Hall wrote:
From: Monica Hall
Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: Composition of short songs in early 17th
century Italy - was Marini - was Grenerin
To: "Martyn Hodgson"
Cc: "Vihuelalist"
really
what you believe?
regards
Martyn
--- On Tue, 26/4/11, Lex Eisenhardt wrote:
From: Lex Eisenhardt
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Composition of short songs in early 17th
century Italy - was Marini - was Grenerin
To: "Martyn Hodgson"
Cc: "Vihuel
Incidentally, I'm not suggesting bowed bass for the songs if the
theorbo is present - only if the guitar is used without the theorbo.
And if the guitar and theorbo were both present then the theorbo need
only play the bass line - a mode which is documented. Indeed to avoid
too much pl
ion rather
than playing M2 shape after the preceding two notes if at the upper
octave - as Vn part).
regards
Martyn
--- On Mon, 25/4/11, Monica Hall wrote:
From: Monica Hall
Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: Composition of short songs in early 17th
century Italy
n of short songs in early 17th
century Italy - was Marini - was Grenerin
To: "Martyn Hodgson"
Cc: "Vihuelalist"
Date: Monday, 25 April, 2011, 15:40
> Re the second half of M's Il Verno - I think you're wrong and are
> imposing a retr
hort songs in early 17th
century Italy - was Marini - was Grenerin
To: "Martyn Hodgson"
Cc: "Vihuelalist"
Date: Monday, 25 April, 2011, 15:40
> Re the second half of M's Il Verno - I think you're wrong and are
> imposing a retr
ch I
have carefully worked out and am rather proud of!. (See my last message).
Rgds
M
.
--- On Mon, 25/4/11, Monica Hall wrote:
From: Monica Hall
Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: Composition of short songs in early 17th
century Italy - was Marini - was Grenerin
To: "Lex Eise
Re the second half of M's Il Verno - I think you're wrong and are
imposing a retrospective modern judgement on an earlier style.
Meanwhile - happy to say that I have come up with the perfect solution for
me at least.
On F you play iib7
On G you play V7/4 i.e. the F and the C in the voic
all wrote:
From: Monica Hall
Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: Composition of short songs in early 17th
century Italy - was Marini - was Grenerin
To: "Lex Eisenhardt"
Cc: "Vihuelalist" , "Martyn Hodgson"
Date: Monday, 25 April, 2011, 1
Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: Composition of short songs in early 17th
century Italy - was Marini - was Grenerin
To: "Martyn Hodgson"
Cc: "Vihuelalist"
Date: Monday, 25 April, 2011, 14:40
Dear Martyn
> No real disagreement with what you say in th
I was thinking of the theorbo playing a harmony on G while the guitar
would be doing an F major at the same moment.
If we are still talking about Marini surely the theorbo and guitar are not
meant to be playing together. It's either or - or have I lost the plot
completely? Are you not con
Dear Martyn
No real disagreement with what you say in the first part of your
mailing below since we've secured general agreement that no one
believes the melodies were created from the alfabeto chord sequences.
Sorry - but I think you have misunderstood some of what I am saying. Some
-- On Mon, 25/4/11, Lex Eisenhardt wrote:
From: Lex Eisenhardt
Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: Composition of short songs in early 17th
century Italy - was Marini - was Grenerin
To: "Vihuela Dmth" , "Martyn Hodgson"
Date: Monday, 25 April, 2011, 12:47
On the face of it chitarrone/theorbo might seem appropriate for M's
songs (since, of course, it is mentioned on the title page either with
guitar or as the [preferred?] alternative)
I was thinking of the theorbo playing a harmony on G while the guitar would
be doing an F major at the sam
formance and in lieu
of another plucker I'm certainly not going to put the guitar down and
pick up the theorbo inbetween each song verse.
rgds
M
--- On Mon, 25/4/11, Lex Eisenhardt wrote:
From: Lex Eisenhardt
Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: Composition of
--- On Mon, 25/4/11, David van Ooijen wrote:
From: David van Ooijen
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Composition of short songs in early 17th
century Italy - was Marini - was Grenerin
To: "Vihuelalist"
Date: Monday, 25 April, 2011, 9:07
> player in an established
When you've time and the personnel to hand (mezzo and a bowed bass)
might I suggest you try the piece exactly as written.
I thought you were suggesting voice, guitar and theorbo.
Do you think the combination of guitar and bowed bass would be a better
option in this repertoire?
best, Lex
> player in an established ensemble (both incidentally also academic
> musicologists!)
And this is supposed to be a recommendation ... ?
;-)
David - sorry, couldn't resist
To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
day (again!), regards to you
Martyn
--- On Sun, 24/4/11, Monica Hall wrote:
From: Monica Hall
Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: Composition of short songs in early 17th
century Italy - was Marini - was Grenerin
To: "Lex Eisenhardt"
Cc: "Vihuelalist" ,
ex Eisenhardt wrote:
From: Lex Eisenhardt
Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: Composition of short songs in early 17th
century Italy - was Marini - was Grenerin
To: "Vihuela Dmth" , "Martyn Hodgson"
Date: Sunday, 24 April, 2011, 16:36
Dear Martyn,
thank
with anything other than complete
acceptance of this nice anticipatory bass line.
regards
Martyn
--- On Sun, 24/4/11, Monica Hall wrote:
From: Monica Hall
Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: Composition of short songs in early 17th
century Italy - was Marini - was Grenerin
Dear Both of You
A couple of points
Your response seemed, to me, to say that you did indeed think that an
alfabeto asequence was created to which tunes (and bass) were later
added.
I think the point is not that alfabeto sequences were created out of the
blue and then melodies added to t
Dear Martyn,
thanks for your patience
Your response seemed, to me, to say that you did indeed think that an
alfabeto asequence was created to which tunes (and bass) were later
added. If I now understand you, yopu do not think this was the case and
agree with me that in these light airs t
ll
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Composition of short songs in early 17th
century Italy - was Marini - was Grenerin
To: "Lex Eisenhardt"
Cc: "Vihuelalist" , "Martyn Hodgson"
Date: Sunday, 24 April, 2011, 13:28
> Are you sure? The rhythm of the bass
on of short songs in early 17th
century Italy - was Marini - was Grenerin
To: "Vihuela Dmth" , "Martyn Hodgson"
Date: Sunday, 24 April, 2011, 10:55
Dear Martyn,
I feel the confusion was mainly caused by what you assumed me to say,
and not by
n, 24/4/11, Monica Hall wrote:
From: Monica Hall
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Composition of short songs in early 17th
century Italy - was Marini - was Grenerin
To: "Lex Eisenhardt"
Cc: "Vihuelalist" , "Martyn Hodgson"
Date: Sunday, 24 Ap
Are you sure? The rhythm of the bass is not hemiolic, and the F major
harmony (or rather D minor, as you remarked earlier) is implied for one
beat only. The F major is somewhat ambiguous indeed, with the melody note
d'.
May be I missed something here - but I did a quick transcription. Are sure
Dear Martyn,
I feel the confusion was mainly caused by what you assumed me to say, and
not by my actual assertions. And probably my poor English has mislead you.
I referred to Dean's thesis, in which there are comparable ideas, because I
understood you had read it.
1. I'm very pleased you
d..
rgds
Martyn
--- On Sat, 23/4/11, Lex Eisenhardt wrote:
From: Lex Eisenhardt
Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: Composition of short songs in early 17th
century Italy - was Marini - was Grenerin
To: "Vihuela Dmth" , "Martyn Hodgson"
Dear Martyn,
I think I should clarify a few things
1. Where did I, or others, suggest that implied in your questions ie '-
Should we assume that all these guitar enthusiasts were only
singing/accompanying alfabeto arrangements
of pre-existing continuo songs? Are you suggesting that all
From: Martyn Hodgson [1]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: Composition of short songs in early 17th
century Italy - was Marini - was Grenerin
To: "Lex Eisenhardt"
Date: Saturday, 23 April, 2011, 9:57
Thank you for this Lex,
I think we are bo
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