At this point we probably part company as to how we interpret notes on
the 4th course and 5th courses. I think one
should take into account the fact that all notes on these course will
sound
an octave above more prominently than the bourdon and when
transcribing the music you should put
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Why re-entrant tunings?
At this point we probably part company as to how we interpret notes on
the 4th course and 5th courses. I think one
should take into account the fact that all notes on these course will
sound
an octave above more prominently than
Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: Why re-entrant tunings?
And that is not at all difficult. So why a D instead of an E?
Yes - of course you can play it! I was doing it on the computer which
enables you to put in notes or arrange the chords in a way you can't on the
guitar - to experiment
[on example p.69, line5, bar 2]
A 3-part chord with a doubled 5th! He could have intended to have only
two
parts, why not? I's better anyway.
The point is that he has indicated that it is to be strummed. If he
wanted
it played as you suggest he would have indicated that it is to be
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Why re-entrant tunings?
Hi Lex
I thought you said you were going to be busy for the next few days so feel
free to ignore this message or reply later. It is a long one.
Strumming was done over any number of strings, even over one.
Apparently Corbetta sometimes comes
--f f
--h--i
--f
--f---
--f-
(p. 61, line 2)
7. The E is lacking in this chord because there is nowhere you can play
it.
It would have to be on the 5th course stopped at the 7th fret. This
explains why there is a D (a non-harmonic tone) on the 5th
Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: Why re-entrant tunings?
I am pasting two messages together to try and simplify things...
First message...
Maybe there are different ways to look at it.
(a)---a
---d -c --dc-
---c c - a--
---e e
(Longish message)
Hi Monica.
I'm sorry but I think you are mistaken. If you leave out the 4th course
(d)
and put the 1st course (e) what you actually have is a second inversion of
the
diminished triad on the leading note. There is a very distinct difference
between this and the dominant
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Why re-entrant tunings?
Hi Lex
even more clearly F# G A. The G must rise. If it was a dominant 7th it
doesn't
resolve - there is no F# in the final chord.
I noticed that. It's just that mr.Corbetta is breaking the rules all the
time. He even wrote chains
Dom7th was attached to the sentence before, where it said 2nd line
bar 2. (p.69)
On Oct 24, 2006, at 2:30 AM, Monica Hall wrote:
2nd line bar 2 works perfectly this way,
making a dom7th. 5th line bar 3, it looks like a dot eliminating the
first course which I would guess applies to the last
Sorry about that - wires crossed again.
Monica
- Original Message -
From: Ed Durbrow [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Monica Hall [EMAIL PROTECTED]; vl
vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2006 7:49 AM
Subject: *** SPAM *** [VIHUELA] Re: Why re-entrant tunings?
Dom7th was attached
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Why re-entrant tunings?
How does this compare to a situation like p.58, line 2, first chord? Apart
from the rhythm the progression is the same. My point is that in
transpositions of the situation above (p. 69, 5th line, bar 3) Corbetta
often gives a full barre
I am a bit confused here. The chord progressions are different.
Maybe there are different ways to look at it.
(a)---a
---d -c --dc-
---c c - a--
---e e -(a)-
(a)---a---
(Page 69, fifth line, 2nd bar.)
Analysis in terms of
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Why re-entrant tunings?
options. He does this quite often.
a
---d c d--
---c c a--
---e e a-
-
How does this compare to a situation like p.58, line 2, first chord? Apart
from
Hi Lex
I think it is not always easy to decide which open courses should be
included in the strum when the tablature doesn't give information (for
example when dots are missing, with Corbetta). Let me give just two
examples
that can cause headaches: p.69 2nd line, bar 2 and, more painful, 5th
Let me give just two
examples
that can cause headaches: p.69 2nd line, bar 2 and, more painful, 5th
line,
bar 3 (last beat). What to do with open courses? I can come up with
several
solutions, but essentially it is unclear.
Sorry - I'm a bit confused but I think you can't be
Monica wrote:
So do you have a MIDI file you could upload somewhere? I'd be
interested in hearing it.
I'm afraid not. It is a Django file which I could send you if if you have
the Django program but I can't convert them to PDF files.
Monica,
You can output any file to a Postscript printer
So do you have a MIDI file you could upload somewhere? I'd be
interested in hearing it.
I'm afraid not. It is a Django file which I could send you if if
you have
the Django program but I can't convert them to PDF files.
On Oct 23, 2006, at 7:53 PM, Craig Allen wrote:
You can output
Subject: *** SPAM *** [VIHUELA] Re: Why re-entrant tunings?
2nd line bar 2 works perfectly this way,
making a dom7th. 5th line bar 3, it looks like a dot eliminating the
first course which I would guess applies to the last eighth strum
too.
It's not a dominant 7th. It's a G major chord
The second bar on the 5th line seems unproblematic to me. I would play
the
open 3rd and 4th courses. The c is just an ascending appogiatura to the
d.
The chord progression is Ib IV(c) V I. The bass line goes F# G A D.
I
know it is a 6/4 chord but that wouldn't worry me.
(p.69, line 5,
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Why re-entrant tunings
On Oct 22, 2006, at 4:35 AM, Monica Hall wrote:
I keyed it into my
computer so that I could listen to it because when you are playing
there are
other things to think about.The underlying harmonic structure is quite
simple.
So do you
The zeros are left out to save time and trouble and it is not really
difficult to decide which to include. To me it is not logical to argue
that
because this is so you have to decide whether letters or figures are to be
left out. This saves nobody's time and trouble!
I think it is not
Dear Monica,
I appreciate what you say. I'm glad to have you on the list.
The point is - what do you measure Corbetta's music against? How do you
establish the principles of a certain style? That's all I would like to
know.
That is indeed the central question. Not so easy to do. I think
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Why re-entrant tunings
Dear Lex/List
This is really a personal message to Lex which I hope the rest of the list
will excuse.
Lex - all my messages to you come back Delivery temporarily suspended.
You are getting my messages from the list. As I have a similar problem
On Oct 22, 2006, at 4:35 AM, Monica Hall wrote:
I keyed it into my
computer so that I could listen to it because when you are playing
there are
other things to think about.The underlying harmonic structure is quite
simple.
So do you have a MIDI file you could upload somewhere? I'd be
It has struck me in the past few years that certain leading scholars have
changed their minds on the subject of the stringing of the five course
guitar in their writings. I just found some of our e-mail exchanges on my
harddisk. I would suggest that we both play this fair, Dr. Hall.
Unless I
It has struck me in the past few years that certain leading scholars
have
changed their minds on the subject of the stringing of the five course
guitar in their writings. I just found some of our e-mail exchanges on
my
harddisk. I would suggest that we both play this fair, Dr. Hall.
Monica, List,
There is the risk that posts on such a specific subject get longer and
longer.
Corbetta's harmony is by no means unique.
It is a feature of the
strummed repertoire. Nearly all of Corbetta's dissonance can be explained
in
this way.
I simply do not agree with your view on
Corbetta's harmony is by no means unique.
It is a feature of the
strummed repertoire. Nearly all of Corbetta's dissonance can be
explained
in
this way.
I simply do not agree with your view on Corbetta's style. Your
explanations
do not make much sense to me. When I say his harmony is
No open mind? I hope you'll
forgive
me that I do not take your judgement as a yardstick.
Sorry - but I can't take your judgement as any sort of yardstick whatever
that is meant to mean.
Your judgement as a measure of my open-mindedness.
Your approach is entirely
cerebral. These are
I'm sorry to hear that you understand it like this. I was able to convince
quite some well-informed colleagues.
Well - unless I know who they are I can't of course comment.
I have considered all that. In a way all dissonant chords are 'altered
alfabeto chords'. (Except indeed L) Standard
from which they may have copied. They even could have written from memory,
though that would have been difficult)
On the contrary - this is thought to be the way in which much baroque guitar
music circulated - which is why it varies. In the 17th century people
probably had better memories and
Hola Monica!
I was rather surprised to read the following when going through the
correspondence on Lutenet!
I said that:
For the guitar I see an entirely different cause: like the ukelele the
instrument needed to be heard in the open air (imagine Spain or the New
World). By having as
Players who think that somehow guitar music can and must conform to a very
narrow interpretation of the rules of music theory are following the wrong
star altogether!
As do scholars who think that the rules of music would not apply to the
guitar
To get on or off this list see list
I think especially for open air performance the plain gut basses of the
five
course guitar are not very useful. The 'musica ruidosa' that Sanz speaks
of
could refer to another (indoor?) situation. 'el que quiere taner guitarra
para hazer musica ruidosa, o accompagnarse el baxo con alguno
Players who think that somehow guitar music can and must conform to a
very
narrow interpretation of the rules of music theory are following the wrong
star altogether!
As do scholars who think that the rules of music would not apply to the
guitar
The emphasis is on narrow
To defend my fellow players:
We have a problem that researchers don't have. We sometimes are forced to
make decisions to be able to perform the music. And on top of that we have
to find ways to understand the music (and preferably appreciate it as well),
otherwise a good performance cannot be the
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Why re-entrant tunings
Apart from this specific case: who is to decide whether arguments are
pseudo-academic. To take everything on the paper for granted is not
necessarily 'more scientific'. The very unusual (maybe even unique)
harmonic
language of Corbetta
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