sorry charles, didn't mean to offend you... but yes flash is required
for that system. my apologies to your iPhone ;)
On Mon, Apr 18, 2011 at 00:12, Charles Hope
lookslikeiwasri...@gmail.com wrote:
Flash is required?!
Sent from my iPhone.
On Apr 17, 2011, at 17:36, .:.gotjosh
from wikipedia:
Nickel is a naturally magnetostrictive material, meaning that in the
presence of a magnetic field, the material undergoes a small change in
length.[41] In the case of nickel, this change in length is negative
(contraction of the material), which is known as negative
Jones Beene reports that it may be impossible to transfer 16 kW or 130 kW
from a 1 L steel cell a flow of water. To test this hypothesis, I looked at
two examples of heat transfer, in a tankless water heater, and a nuclear
power plant.
The tankless heater is Niagara brand 12 kW electrically fired
Could the magnetic field generated by the resistive heaters be inducing some
other effects that help
promote the reaction, or inductively heat the Nickel???
-Mark
You are using the wrong criteria, as I understand the situation. The
'volume' of the heater is relatively unimportant compared to the surface
area exposed to water flow, the time of exposure and the metal transferring
the heat. With a tubular reactor as described in the Rossi patent, there is
not
Hey Mark!
Axil and I have been dancing around this idea also in a recent thread
(http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l%40eskimo.com/msg45022.html)
I have a strong feeling that there are some electro-magnetic effects
playing an important role here.
and I also found this tidbit on wikipedia:
Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote:
You are using the wrong criteria, as I understand the situation. The
‘volume’ of the heater is relatively unimportant compared to the surface
area exposed to water flow, the time of exposure and the metal transferring
the heat.
Yes, I know. I pointed
Dr Gluck, can you or anyone else provide calculations about point b?
if a portion of the 100micron particles of nickel powder are coated
with a thin layer of NiO (as they would be if baked between 600-1200C
in air), how much water are we talking about? and if the water is the
result of the O from
-Original Message-
From: OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson
In the meantime, I suspect Mr. Beene will probably not find Mr.
Rothwell's analysis convincing, and I fully expect a counter response.
Wow - I realize that this Rossi device could be the most important development
in Energy for
Jones sez:
...
Wow - I realize that this Rossi device could be the most
important development in Energy for some extended time ...
hmmm, the Neolithic age comes to mind, according to
Randy :) ... but this may be the first time in Vortician-land
for having a play-by-play and ongoing
On Mon, Apr 18, 2011 at 1:52 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote:
On 04/18/2011 01:52 PM, Jones Beene wrote:
You are using the wrong criteria, as I understand the situation. The
'volume' of the heater is relatively unimportant compared to the
surface area exposed to water flow, the time of exposure and the metal
transferring the heat. With a tubular
On Mon, Apr 18, 2011 at 2:27 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote:
I was hoping it would be Ines Sainz...
You called this moderate?
http://blogs.dallasobserver.com/sportatorium/2011/02/ines_sainz_nice_booty_nicer_pe.php
I wonder who painted those?
T
Just call me Peter please- I am as far I remember one of the founding
members of Vortex and I have only friends here.
It is easy to make approximate calculations if you tell me how many grams of
NiO will be in which space. However I ask you that before continuing to
think about NiO (very
Are you of the opinion that he doesn't?
On Mon, Apr 18, 2011 at 20:39, Peter Gluck peter.gl...@gmail.com wrote:
If Rossi really has an catalyst.
Peter
On a more serious note, someone who may have achieved some street
creed with Rossi might want to pop this interesting heat transfer
question to Ross at his blog. It might be interesting to see how Rossi
responds. Could be highly revealing.
Peter Gluck, comes to mind as the volunteer for his
From: Jed Rothwell
* Similar stainless steel surfaces in teapots transfer heat at roughly this
rate without difficulty.
Nonsense. Water going thru the Rossi reactor is in contact with the reactor
only for milliseconds ! A teapot takes minutes to boil.
. or even longer, if you are
I compared the volume and surface area of a nuclear fuel rod to that of a
typical 1 liter water bottle. I assume that Rossi's device has at least as
much surface area as a cylindrical water bottle.
I am hopeless at arithmetic so I cheat with an on-line calculator such as
this one:
The current producing the inductive heating will flow primarily on the
outside surface of the stainless steel reaction vessel (RV) wall due to the
skin effect. Little or a reduced current will flow on the inside surface of
the RV wall. No magnetic field will exist on the inside of the RV where the
Regardless of any possible quantity of NiO added to the reactor as am
intentional catalyst,
i assume that each particle of Ni powder will be coated with NiO, either
from standard handling, processing such as baking, or from being heated to
400-500C to start the reactor (with some residual oxygen
On Mon, Apr 18, 2011 at 9:41 PM, .:.gotjosh ene...@begreen.nu wrote:
Are you of the opinion that he doesn't?
On Mon, Apr 18, 2011 at 20:39, Peter Gluck peter.gl...@gmail.com wrote:
If Rossi really has an catalyst.
Peter
By the way, what is in this case a catalyst? What is it's function?
Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote:
Ø Similar stainless steel surfaces in teapots transfer heat at roughly
this rate without difficulty.
Nonsense. Water going thru the Rossi reactor is in contact with the reactor
only for milliseconds ! A teapot takes minutes to boil.
This assertion
axil, please forgive me if these are ignorant questions: are you sure that
the heating elements are inductive? isn't there a difference between
inductive heating and resistive heating? Isn't it true that inductive
heating will not work with copper?
On Mon, Apr 18, 2011 at 21:05, Axil Axil
Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote:
Thus there is at least a 1000:1 error in that anecdotal appraisal, which is
not a surprise, given how much of an emotional stake seems to be involved.
You can appraise any electrical hot water heater and see that it transfers
heat at a higher rate than
I like to ask answerable questions, and I could not formulate this one
without touching know how elements. Plus we had some indirect dialogue with
Rossi re. the role of Piantelli's work in the area of Ni-H LENR. Rossi has
declared that his system is different from Piantelli's.
So I have asked him
From: Jed Rothwell
* As I said, the reactor transfers 3 GW with 80,000 rods. That is
approximately 37.5 kW per rod. (Previously I estimated per liter of rod.)
That comes to 0.030 kW/cm^2. A liter-bottle shaped Rossi cell putting out
130 kW would be producing 0.216 kW/cm^2, an order of
Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote:
Whoa the 3 GW is for an entire year, correct?
No, gigawatts are a measure of power, not energy.
I am forever mixing up MW (power) MJ (energy) and even MB (data storage!) so
I understand your confusion here. The other day Brian Josephson mixed up MW
and
Speaking of leaving it to experts, someone has written to me offline that
this very issue of heat transfer was covered at Chennai by NRL - and they
may have had similar reservations that this was even possible.
Weren't you there, and did they?
J.
* As I said, the reactor
Maybe hydrinos improve heat transfer? They should carry more energy in a
smaller volume effectively increasing the internal surface area. Just because
We never see them at STP doesn't mean they can't exist as a heated plasma
inside the reactor.
Fran
From: Jed Rothwell
To the best of my knowledge, induction heating is the process of heating
electrically conducting object (magnetic types of stainless steel but not
non magnetic copper) by electromagnetic induction where eddy currents are
generated within the metal and resistance leads to Joule heating of the
On Mon, Apr 18, 2011 at 3:51 PM, Roarty, Francis X
francis.x.roa...@lmco.com wrote:
Maybe hydrinos improve heat transfer? They should carry more energy in a
“smaller” volume effectively increasing the internal surface area. Just
because
We never see them at STP doesn’t mean they can’t exist
Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote:
*Speaking of leaving it to experts, someone has written to me offline that
this very issue of heat transfer was covered at Chennai by NRL - and they
may have had similar reservations that this was even possible.***
Weren’t you there, and did they?
Axil,
both resistive and inductive heaters will produce magnetic fields - A
resistive heater can operate on AC or DC but an inductive heater will short out
if fed DC. The resistive heater is still equivalent to a conductor which will
produce an ac or pulsating dc magnetic field if you choose
Some background...
I have heard that Rossi is using a commercial plastic extrusion nozzle.
These nozzles all use inductive high-frequency alternating current (AC). I
will be looking to verify this from a direct QA from Rossi.
On Mon, Apr 18, 2011 at 4:03 PM, Roarty, Francis X
Giving points made by Jed, Jones and (Steven) Johnson validity, and the fact
that Rossi admits to
not being a genius but requests people give him some credit for being
reasonably bright and
competent, I would bet that the heat xfer issue was something that needed to be
solved long ago and
has
thanks for the clarification. does the patent and/or blog mention induction?
or is this an advancement since the patent?
i find many references to resistance but none to induction...but maybe i am
missing something...
On Mon, Apr 18, 2011 at 21:53, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:
To the
it makes alot of sense to me, but then why does rossi, repeatedly state in
his blog that they can turn off the resistance and keep running, they just
don't for safety reasons??
has anyone other than rossi confirmed that the reactor can continue to
produce heat when disconnected from both the
Oops. I wrote:
Liter bottle shaped cylinder:
4 cm diameter, 20 cm length
Meant 8 cm diameter, 20 cm length. (4 cm radius.)
I measured a plastic liter bottle to come up with this.
There is no reason to think the Rossi cell is this shape. On the contrary,
the machine is long and thin, so I
Until about 200 hundred years ago, there were three competing ontologies on the
nature of heat.
1) Only cold is a real entity, so heat is the relative absence of cold.
2) Hot and cold are both real entities, so that heat is a mixture of hot and
cold.
3) Only heat is a real entity, so cold is
From: Jed Rothwell
Speaking of leaving it to experts, someone has written to me offlist that
this very issue of heat transfer was covered at Chennai by NRL - and they
may have had similar reservations that this was even possible.
Weren't you there, and did they?
* I was there, but I do not
In the Bizarro world of negative energy beyond the zero point,
negative energy is the same as positive energy in our three space.
T
If the reactor vessel begins to glow emitting IR photons which are
absorbed by the copper jacket, you would have to include radiative
energy in the calculation.
If.
T
Well another thing that brings to mind is that the reactor vessel could be
emitting electrons (Edison effect) which perform electrolysis on the
coolant. That could perhaps get extra heat into the water to boost
convective or radiative transfer.
I don't know understand why there seems to be such
In reply to Jones Beene's message of Mon, 18 Apr 2011 10:52:44 -0700:
Hi,
[snip]
You are using the wrong criteria, as I understand the situation. The
'volume' of the heater is relatively unimportant compared to the surface
area exposed to water flow, the time of exposure and the metal
Gotjosh,
I agree that it doesn't make sense - it challenges the assumption
that the control loop is keeping the reaction carefully balanced between
starving out below threshold or entering runaway while over threshold using
the duty factor of the control signal.
Fran
.:.gotjosh
Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote:
*From:* Jed Rothwell
*Speaking of leaving it to experts, someone has written to me
offli**st**that this very issue of heat transfer was covered at Chennai by
NRL - and
they may have had similar reservations that this was even possible.*
Weren’t
Ok that's the sort of possible issue I was referring to in terms of their
policies being acceptable.
I have a domain already and can have a mediawiki set up there probably this
weekend, if others share your concerns.
If you would prefer to do it, or can get it up faster, feel free.
Sent
One connection to a magnetic field could be to magnetostriction, which has
been mentioned recently and in the past. So many decent ideas are passing
through the forum nowadays, that a few good ones will be overlooked.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetostrictive
The effect is small but it
Francis and I have discussed modeling virtual photons as oscillating on their
time axis so that we only observe their forward-time motion.
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2011 18:23:25 -0400
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Ontologies of heat
From: hohlr...@gmail.com
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
In the Bizarro world of
Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote:
I don't know understand why there seems to be such resistance to the gain
in
this device being only in the range of COP 3-6 ?
There is resistance because we do not think you can casually throw away
calorimetry and pretend that industrial techniques and
This is not a question of throwing away good data.
It is a question of throwing away junk data and getting good data.
Geeze Louise Rothwells fallback argument is his electric teapot - and as
for serious science he is content with clamp meters instead of power
analyzers and
I understand your need to refer to every single thing that Sterling Allan
has done over the years. Yes, pushing Mylow was a mistake. Yes, I'd be happy
if he never mentioned biblecodes, MIB or conspiracy theories. He sometimes
does that, so I switch to the next article. I only really follow
Angela Kemmler angela.kemm...@gmx.de wrote:
Nobody supresses Rossi, even the italian television RAI3 talked about
him, there are three Wikipedia articles about the Ecat and the university of
Uppsala will perhaps test his device later this week.
Later this week? That soon? That's great!
Let's just put it everywhere. If someone on VO-list sets up a wiki, it could
be there, in addition to elsewhere. The more mirrors, the better. I'm sure
http://freeenergytruth.blogspot.com/ would jump at a chance to post that
compilation of Rossi's answers all over the place.
On Tue, Apr 19, 2011
On Mon, Apr 18, 2011 at 6:49 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote:
I don't know understand why there seems to be such resistance to the gain in
this device being only in the range of COP 3-6 ?
You'll find no resistance here to any possibility. Since I am not
present, I must rely on the
Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote:
This is not a question of throwing away good data.
It is a question of throwing away junk data and getting good data.
You have given us NO INDICATION how or why this data is junk. All you have
done is claimed that you have theory proving that 12 kW
Jed sez:
Nobody supresses Rossi, even the italian television
RAI3 talked about him, there are three Wikipedia articles
about the Ecat and the university of Uppsala will perhaps
test his device later this week.
Later this week? That soon? That's great! Where was that reported?
University of
what happened to the alternapedia project?
Harry
[Vo]:ALTERNAPEDIA, alt-science friendly 'pedia service
William Beaty
Sat, 04 Apr 2009 10:58:33 -0700
(see also preceding message) From: Pierre Carbonnelle Together with Bill
Beaty, I'm pleased to introduce Alternapedia to the Vortex
OK, There is only one way to end this kind of fruitless thread - and that
would be a small wager to be based on the upcoming tests in Sweden.
Let's see .
You say the COP is considerably over 30, based on first demo even though the
Feb testing was much higher, is that about right?
The megahertz-meter stuff is coming out in a peer reviewed journal. My work
with the hydrogen atom extended to the Josephson Junction by co-author Glen
Robertson.
Things are starting to open up in many places.
snip
As many of you know, AIP pulled publication at the last moment for our
Scott,
The thread title Neg Energy and ZPE represents a stumbling box for some. We
know that energy density is the sum of all vacuum fluctuation wavelengths
and that even in deep open space without mass there still remains an energy
density background. One would assume that suppression could
Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote:
OK, There is only one way to end this kind of fruitless thread – and that
would be a small wager to be based on the upcoming tests in Sweden.
I don't bet. I debate technical issues based on experimental evidence, not
crackpot theories that predict
Well what do you know about that. They have made and are selling a transcript
of my show. They are bigger and better than I thought. Next on to sci-fi.
http://www.bbsradio.com/host/spectrumradionetwork/archives/spectrum_radio_network_archive.php#
-Original Message-
From: Jed Rothwell
* I don't bet. I debate technical issues based on experimental evidence,
not crackpot theories that predict water heaters don't work. If you will not
give us a plausible reason why this calorimetry might be wrong by a factor
of 1000 then you lose this debate.
This 1000
In reply to Roarty, Francis X's message of Mon, 18 Apr 2011 15:51:49 -0400:
Hi,
[snip]
Maybe hydrinos improve heat transfer? They should carry more energy in a
smaller volume effectively increasing the internal surface area. Just because
We never see them at STP doesn't mean they can't exist as
In reply to Axil Axil's message of Mon, 18 Apr 2011 15:53:18 -0400:
Hi,
[snip]
To the best of my knowledge, induction heating is the process of heating
electrically conducting object (magnetic types of stainless steel but not
non magnetic copper) by electromagnetic induction where eddy currents
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