Hello.
Engineer from delta ohm (manufacter) confirms that:
1) The instruments measure enthalpy BY CALCULATION, given RH and
temperature, with Mollier diagrams
2) The probe is suitable only for mneasure humidity IN AIR, not in 100%
vapor mixture
3) Inside the e-cat, without air and with liquid
Jed Rothwell, it’s over.
From: Mattia Rizzi
Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2011 11:48 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: [Vo]:[e-cat] Engineer from delta ohm confirms that galantini
instrument is useless
Hello.
Engineer from delta ohm (manufacter) confirms that:
1) The instruments measure
Thanks Mattia,
Le grandezze derivate che lo strumento permette di visualizzare sono
calcolate dai diagrammi di Mollier
The derived quantities that the tool allows you to view are
calculated from Mollier diagrams
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/mollier-diagram-water-d_308.html
How did
Delta ohm's engineer say that the entalphy is calculated by the instrument,
knwoing RH and temperature of gas. This is in accordance with the manual of
the instrument.
SInce RH measurement is flawed, all other derived measurements are flawed
too.
-Messaggio originale-
From: Michele
I hope Galantini uses T and P and T is correct. Some of those probes
measure also P and that is correct too. Looking at a Mollier diag
you know the dryness. If Galantini did not measure P in the outlet or
he used RH by the probe, well he has a problem! or he knows something
we do not know...
From Essen report we can expect that they used a pt100 probe:
http://www.testo.co.uk/online/abaxx-?$part=PORTAL.GBR.ProductCategoryDesk.active-area.catalog.ProductDetail.details.probes
works up to 550° C (the value reported by Essen)
now to calculate the x (dryness factor) from a Mollier
2011/8/4 Michele Comitini michele.comit...@gmail.com
From Essen report we can expect that they used a pt100 probe:
http://www.testo.co.uk/online/abaxx-?$part=PORTAL.GBR.ProductCategoryDesk.active-area.catalog.ProductDetail.details.probes
works up to 550° C (the value reported by Essen)
Rizzi sez:
Jed Rothwell, it’s over.
Back in the late 60s I recall an infamous week which I experienced back when I
was still a freshman in high school. It happened during geometry class. I
noticed that several students had suddenly started secretly brining in portable
pocket radios
2011/8/4 Abd ul-Rahman Lomax a...@lomaxdesign.com:
Now, if you assessed the probability at 70%, rationally you would bet 40
euros against a lesser amount from me. Suppose my bet is X euros. Forget the
charity thing, it complicates it.
It is impossible to assess probabilities for one time
Mattia Rizzi wrote:
Jed Rothwell, it’s over.
So you admit the laws of thermodynamics have not been repealed, and 4.2
joules still equal 1 calorie? Good. I am glad that you now agree that
calorimetry works and Rossi's claims -- along with all the others in
this field -- are valid.
It is
Regarding the RH meter -- that's irrelevant. The claims stand without it.
What claims? The pump that erogate 3 times much more water than the maximux
rate wrote on the datasheet? Or the “5kW steam” that look exaclty like a 600W
steam?
But I don't anything wrong with an instrument that works
Mattia Rizzi wrote:
What claims? The pump that erogate 3 times much more water than the
maximux rate wrote on the datasheet?
The pump was not used in the 18-hour test.
Or the “5kW steam” that look exaclty like a 600W steam?
You cannot judge steam quality by looking at the steam. In any
Was RH measurement 'flawed'?
So long as the probe is rated to operate above 100°C, it should provide a valid
RH reading, PROVIDED
you let the probe come up to the same temperature as the vapor.
with a probe guaranteed to resist up to 550°C
So the probe can work up to 550°C.
When a cold probe
From Rich,
-- being sincerely wrong is a really profound learning process.
Indeed it is. I don't know if Rossi is sincerely wrong about his eCats
or not. I don't know if believers of Rossi's claims are also
sincerely wrong about their assessments of the claims either. But the
same thing can be
RH is simply the amount of water vapor that CAN exist in a given volume of
*air* at a given pressure
and temperature
There is NO AIR inside e-cat. Only vapor mixture.
The probe is designed ONLY for measurements in AIR.
-Messaggio originale-
From: Mark Iverson
Sent: Thursday, August
2011/8/4 Abd ul-Rahman Lomaxa...@lomaxdesign.com:
Now, if you assessed the probability at 70%, rationally you would bet 40
euros against a lesser amount from me. Suppose my bet is X euros. Forget the
charity thing, it complicates it.
It is impossible to assess probabilities for one time
Mattia wrote:
There is NO AIR inside e-cat. Only vapor mixture.
The probe is designed ONLY for measurements in AIR.
I'm afraid that is a common misconception which was mentioned on this list
shortly after the January
demo...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relative_humidity
Misconception
Often
From Terry:
I came to a conclusion of fraud, defined as wilful
deception, after seeing a lot of evidence for it, which I was always
explaining away, as did others.
If I thought there could be the slightest possibility that Rossi and
Defkalion were not committing fraud, I think I'd keep my
At 06:25 PM 8/3/2011, Stephen A. Lawrence wrote:
Interesting note in the article:
The shape was found at the bottom of the Gulf of Bothnia during a
search for a sunken wreck which contained several cases of champagne.
Seems like an awful lot of trouble to go through to get a few cases
of
At 06:30 PM 8/3/2011, Jed Rothwell wrote:
Let me summarize:
I will, too.
If your best argument
Your is unspecified. Whose best argument?
against this data is the assertion that Lewan and I are incapable
of transcribing numbers correctly,
That's certainly not my argument. Period.
or
At 06:24 PM 8/3/2011, Jed Rothwell wrote:
Abd ul-Rahman Lomax mailto:a...@lomaxdesign.coma...@lomaxdesign.com wrote:
Boiler test reports are a set of variables found by long experience
to indicate the operating health of a boiler. There is no way to
compare this report with a boiler test.
At 06:21 PM 8/3/2011, Jed Rothwell wrote:
This is a science forum, not a courtroom.
Yes.
Frankly, it is damned insulting to suggest that I would lie about
these numbers, or that Lewan and are incapable of transcribing tape
recorded conversations (what he did), copying numbers out of
I cannot find where Galantini declared that he used the RH reading on the
datalogger. Did he declare that?
Maybe he used the probe because it measures T in the correct range up to
150°C. If he knew the pressure at the point where the probe was then with
steam tables or Mollier diagram the
Abd ul-Rahman Lomax wrote:
No boiler is designed to create very wet steam as a possibility. Now,
the 18-hour test doesn't involve steam. That was the point. But no
boiler will be tested with water at a liter per second!
That is incorrect. A large boiler will be tested at 1 L per second or
At 08:38 PM 8/3/2011, Terry Blanton wrote:
On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 8:08 PM, Abd ul-Rahman Lomax
a...@lomaxdesign.com wrote:
I came to a conclusion of fraud, defined as wilful
deception, after seeing a lot of evidence for it, which I was always
explaining away, as did others.
If I thought
I previously asked whether steam is a problem :
http://www.zoomerang.com/Shared/SharedResultsPasswordPage.aspx?ID=L26QG6QVBZQL
http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg49076.html
I'm thinking of setting up a new poll.
a) Old question, again : Is the eCat steam quality a problem?
Some people have commented that a flow rate of 1 L/s is rather high, or that
you might not be able to achieve it, or that it might be difficult to meter.
These comments are incorrect. I have a large bathtub with an unimpeded
faucet close to the house water main that fills this fast. (I mean there
On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 11:45 AM, OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson
svj.orionwo...@gmail.com wrote:
As far as retribution is concerned, perhaps getting
even would entail nothing more satisfying than generating a well
publicized list of all the meticulous things nay-sayers had
proclaimed.
Some of
Have you measured the volume of your bathtube and seen in how may seconds it
is filled?. In my house I can fill a vessel of 10 liters in some 55 seconds
not 10.
Those flowmeters are for the main water connection.
What's their nominal diameter?- compare it please to the connection to the
E-cat
Have
Peter Gluck peter.gl...@gmail.com wrote:
Have you measured the volume of your bathtube and seen in how may seconds it
is filled?.
Yes. It is an Americh, Beverly 2020 model (Japanese inspired):
http://www.americh.com/pd3.php?s_product_model=Beverlys_product_shape=Squareproduct_id=40
The
But Cousin, cold water has a greater viscosity! It is excatky the opposite!
On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 11:17 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote:
Peter Gluck peter.gl...@gmail.com wrote:
Have you measured the volume of your bathtube and seen in how may seconds
it is filled?.
Yes. It
Peter Gluck peter.gl...@gmail.com wrote:
But Cousin, cold water has a greater viscosity! It is excatky the opposite!
Ah, but the cold water comes directly from the water mains a short distance
away whereas the hot water goes through the hot water heater at the other
side of the house, past the
On 11-08-04 04:24 PM, Peter Gluck wrote:
But Cousin, cold water has a greater viscosity! It is excatky the
opposite!
Arrgh -- that's totally irrelevant. The (viscous) cold water flows into
the water heater instead of the tub, the heater acts as a flow reduction
device, and from there the
Stephen A. Lawrence sa...@pobox.com wrote:
If there's something that's not reasonable about it, it's the value:
1...Remarkable coincidence, if that's actually an exact 1, as in 1.00.
I believe they opened the tap and watched the flow meter needle, and when it
reached 1 they stopped.
If I remember well for industrial applications when you make a contract for
water supply, in much of Italy, you can be provided with 20 m3/h without
special request. That is 2/3600 l/s. Rossi's facility may have that
kind of big pipe from the public aqueduct.
mic
Il giorno 04/ago/2011
Alan,
What about something like Do e-cat's people know how to make correct
experiments ?
mic
Il giorno 04/ago/2011 21:15, Alan J Fletcher a...@well.com ha scritto:
I know that all residential bldgs here in the US are NOT at water main
pressure... all bldgs have a
regulator that drops the pressure below that in the main line under the street.
Whether that is the
case for industrial bldgs in Italy, I don't know, but I would also think that
one would have
Michele Comitini wrote:
What about something like Do e-cat's people know how to make correct
experiments ?
My answer: Yes, they know how to do correct experiments, but they do not
know how to write papers in English describing these experiments. Or if
they know how to write such papers,
Okay, it looks like it takes about 8 minutes to reach the whirlpool sensors
with hot water only.
Still in the ballpark.
- Jed
Well, Jed, maybe you're right at the cusp of a complete switch of your
gestalt of understandings re the Rossi phenomenon -- a little more
likely when waking up in the morning, you notice your entire system of
interpretations has irrevocably reversed, like a 3D shift in the way a
wire cube seems to
My take on it:
a) Old question, again : Is the eCat steam quality a problem?
Definitely not a problem
Kullander-Essen report, even if 100% liquid phase still 2x!
b) New question : Do you now think the eCat is Real or Fake?Definitely Fake
Probably Real
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