At 01:48 AM 8/4/2011, Rich Murray wrote:
I'm paying very little attention to any of the cold
fusion stuff now, assessing that nothing yet is independently
reproducible to refute the null hypothesis of no anomalies...
There is a large body of data showing independent reproducibility for
cold
At 01:48 AM 8/4/2011, Rich Murray wrote:
Thanks, Abd, for being so forthright
My sense is that most cold fusion researchers have become quite
skeptical about Rossi. A few are supportive, but mostly this boils
down to them thinking that Rossi's claim confirms their own
understanding of Ni-H.
On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 2:15 AM, Abd ul-Rahman Lomax a...@lomaxdesign.com
wrote:
At 01:48 AM 8/4/2011, Rich Murray wrote:
Thanks, Abd, for being so forthright
My sense is that most cold fusion researchers have become quite skeptical
about Rossi.
You have surveyed them? Could you list those
Galantini said that reads grams of liquid water / m^3 of vapor on display of
HD37AB1347.
From Levi’s report, Galantini used an HP474ACR probe, that measure RH and
temperature.
In the 2nd email, Galantini claim that he measured the preassure inside the
e-cat. Nobody know how he measured, since
On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 8:15 AM, Abd ul-Rahman Lomax a...@lomaxdesign.com
wrote:
By the way, the 18-hour test, on its own, certainly seems convincing, but
the problem is that we can't trust it.
It's seems to me that most of the people talking about Rossi-Focardi
would like to have a proof given
Let me get this simple to you. You are WRONG.
There is the probe and there is the instrument itself. The instrument itself
just responds to whatever analogical electric signals the probe sends. And
it is basically a calculator and makes stores this signuals The instrument
is called
Daniel, *you* are wrong!
The ONLY *preassure* probe that can be connected is P37AB147*** and the
P37B147*
And these ones meaure *atmsopheric preassure*
The other probes that can be connected DON’T MEASURE PRESSURE.
And HP474ACR doesnt’ measure preassure.
From: Daniel Rocha
Sent:
Abd ul-Rahman Lomax a...@lomaxdesign.com wrote:
My sense is that most cold fusion researchers have become quite skeptical
about Rossi.
As Terry said, you have not conducted a public opinion poll so you have no
basis for having this sense. At ICCF-16 and later I spoke with several
people who
Any probe that measures temperature in boiling water system measures
also pressure. That is because boiling point of water is directly
depended on pressure.
- Jouni
2011/8/5 Mattia Rizzi mattia.ri...@gmail.com:
Daniel, *you* are wrong!
The ONLY *preassure* probe that can be connected is
Do you think the eCat is real of fake.
IMO, it's probably for real. (Depends on which demo. ;-) )
The eCat probably exhibits heat, sufficient quantities of heat to
warrant commercialization. However the underlying theoretical process
that generates the excess heat is obviously not well
Do you now think the eCat is Real or Fake?
Definetly a scientific scam
By knowing the RH, you will know the steam quality, adding temperature and
output, you will find the pressure inside the chamber.
They claims that tehy have measured a temperature 100 C degrees and a
pression equal to ambient preassure, so they claims that the steam is dry.
You need to measure the preassure for that claim, since you can achive (with
liquid water) a 102 temperature with a little over preassure.
Again, Galantini said that he *measured* the preassure. There’s a big
difference between a calculation and a measuramernt.
Since Delta Ohm’s engineer said that the instrument and the probe IS NOT
SUITABLE for the measurement that Galtini did, then all derived (calculated)
measuremnt are
*Literature.
From: Mattia Rizzi
Sent: Friday, August 05, 2011 4:34 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: [Vo]:Re: [e-cat] Engineer from delta ohm confirms that galantini
instrument is useless
Again, Galantini said that he *measured* the preassure. There’s a big
difference between a calculation
Well, Jed, maybe you're right at the cusp of a complete
switch of your gestalt of understandings re the Rossi
phenomenon -- a little more likely when waking up in the
morning, you notice your entire system of interpretations
has irrevocably reversed, like a 3D shift in the way a
wire cube
Yes, he measured the pressure. He doesn't need an instrument specific for
that. You don't need an instrument for every data you want to find. For
example, even in any big particle colliders you don't see all of the
resulting colliding particles. You reconstruct the the trajectories and the
energy
I think this poll is indispensable. Exactly as poetry - it is shown in this
quotation:
* I know that poetry is indispensable, but to what, I cannot say. (Jean
Cocteau)*
What can such a pseudo-statisitical democratic study solve or change? Will
everybody, incluiding reality be converted to the
There is no need for literature. If you have 1bar or less and any
temperature above 100C, with 0% RH, you have no liquid water in any kind of
gas, even if that gas is steam.
IF-IF-IF
If you have 1bar
Yeah, but you need to measure it, and with the probes that can be connected,
you can measure *atmospehric pressure* with –20-+60C. If you put it inside a
100C enviroment, kaboom.
with 0% RH
Yeah, BUT THE PROBE IS NOT DESIGNED TO BE PUT INSIDE AN ENVIRONMENT LIKE THE
2011/8/5 Mattia Rizzi mattia.ri...@gmail.com:
They claims that tehy have measured a temperature 100 C degrees and a
pression equal to ambient preassure, so they claims that the steam is dry.
They may claim whatever they want, but it is impossible that there is
ambient pressure, since E-Cat is
The probe can work util 150C. It doesn't need to be that one that measure
pressure directly.
Daniel you lost me a cople messages ago. Is this a circular demostration ?
*The steam is dry because P = 1bar and P = 1 bar because the steam is dry ?*
Is this you saying ?
P, T and Dryness are three values tied together by one law (mollier diagram)
tho know one you need the other two. We do know
This is the reason why you need to know only one measured variable
from E-Cat and that is the temperature of steam.
You need also RH to make sure there is no mist.
No, not a circular demonstration. Steam is dry because P=1bar, and T100
cosidering that the measured RH=0.
they want, but it is impossible that there is
ambient pressure, since E-Cat is closed system
Exaclty, there will be a little (unknown) over preassure.
it is even more impossible that steam temperature is above boiling
point of local pressure
Hey! If inside there's over preassure, then the
But if you say RH=0, it is dry. If there is mist it will point a non null
RH, if there is bubbling, there will probably be a short circuit and the
value of RH will saturate or very wildly.
2011/8/5 Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.com:
This is the reason why you need to know only one measured variable
from E-Cat and that is the temperature of steam.
You need also RH to make sure there is no mist.
Mist does not contribute for the pressure and hence the temperature of
boiling
No, you misunderstood me. I am talking about the need for the RH quantity,
to make sure that there isn't enough liquid mass to invalidate the output
power.
On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 10:51 AM, Peter Gluck peter.gl...@gmail.com wrote:
I know that poetry is indispensable, but to what, I cannot say. (Jean
Cocteau)
Ah, Jean Cocteau, I remember him from my studies of the Priory of Sion. :-)
T
2011/8/5 Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.com:
I am talking about the need for the RH quantity,
to make sure that there isn't enough liquid mass to invalidate the output
power.
This kind of setup, that there is no liquid mass with steam, is
impossible, because it is not stable. Water inflow must
I remember him first of all for the script of the movie
L'Eternel retour (Jean Marais, Medeleine Sologne) a story similar to Tristan
and Isolde- one of the first I have seen
Peter
On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 6:26 PM, Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 10:51 AM, Peter
I just read about relative humidity. It I was wrong about the measurement of
RH. It will be 1 all the time given the measured steam above, without, is
already saturated steam. So, only the T will make sense.
The high powered tests were done with a lot of liquid water instead of
showing steam.
Just to clarify:
I said:
...If Mr. Murray's propensity to exploit pop psychology persists
I think it may warrant a temporary time out from the Vort sand box.
What I meant to say is that if Mr. Murray's propensity to exploit pop
psychology IN ATTEMPTS TO DESCRIBE PERSONALLY PERCEIVED FAULTS IN
At 07:27 AM 8/5/2011, Mattia Rizzi wrote:
Do you now think the eCat is Real or Fake?
Definetly a scientific scam
WHOA This isn't the actual poll . coming up REAL SOON !!!
At 09:37 AM 8/5/2011, Alan J Fletcher wrote:
WHOA This isn't the actual poll . coming up REAL SOON !!!
http://www.zoomerang.com/Survey/WEB22CU6CZ3P9U/
results will be at:
http://www.zoomerang.com/Shared/SharedResultsPasswordPage.aspx?ID=L26VBL22QQQG
Industrial energy use and the human life history
Abstract
The demographic rates of most organisms are supported by the consumption of
food energy, which is used to produce new biomass and fuel physiological
processes. Unlike other species, modern humans use ‘extra-metabolic’ energy
sources
Ironic, yet natural, that what Abd is trying to catalyze Jed to
understand about Rossi, Rich is trying to catalyze Abd to understand
about all cold fusion claims to date -- rather than continue to
blather forever about claims that go back 22 years, let's consider
whether any evidence has been
Several interesting and provocative News items can be found in Mitchell's
newsletter.
http://world.std.com/~mica/cft.html
The first relates Robert Foot's mirror matter in the context of dark
energy/dark matter which is one of Horace's pet themes. From that point on
- the connection of this
From Rich:
The following is obviously abbreviated and probably taken out of context:
...rather than continue to blather forever about claims that go back 22 years,
Ah, I see the blather word is now being used to explain CF claims
for the past 22 years.
Look, Rich, expressing your skepticism
http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/MRO/news/mro20110804.html
NASA Spacecraft Data Suggest Water Flowing on Mars
08.04.11
PASADENA, Calif. -- Observations from NASA's Mars Reconnaissance
Orbiter have revealed possible flowing water during the warmest months
on Mars.
NASA's Mars Exploration
At 01:43 PM 8/4/2011, Michele Comitini wrote:
I cannot find where Galantini declared that he
used the RH reading on the datalogger. Did he declare that?
He used the g/m^3 reading, which is a calculated
reading. I believe that this reading does
consider pressure, if the information is
as mighty mensch, I don't try to catalyze,
I do catalyze...
these are tough big boys, highly competent at maintaining their own,
happy to play on multiple levels...
In mutual service, Rich
OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson wrote:
Well, Jed, maybe you're right at the cusp of a complete
If Mr.
Murray's propensity to exploit pop psychology persists I think it may
warrant a temporary time out from the Vort sand box.
The text is about me. It seems harmless. I auto-delete Murray's
At 01:57 PM 8/4/2011, Jed Rothwell wrote:
I wrote:
Except that the data recorded in a boiler test is EXACTLY what you
see here, for crying out loud!
To be more specific, I mean that they record only one value for
temperature and one for the flow, even though these values probably
Jones,
I have been struggling with a new Casimir blog started below that is
similarly unwieldy. I agree with your assessment that nature has already tapped
Casimir geometry in biological structures.
DRAFT below -unfinished-
I haven't commented much of late on all the developments
Abd ul-Rahman Lomax a...@lomaxdesign.com wrote:
Imagining that testing an experimental device with unknown operating
characteristics can be handled with a boiler form is what's preposterous.
The operating characteristics are not unknown. They are readily apparent.
Anyone can the thing produces
On 11-08-05 11:00 AM, Jouni Valkonen wrote:
Also
it is even more impossible that steam temperature is above boiling
point of local pressure.
Heavens, Jouni, where have you been?
That silly argument leads directly to the conclusion that the atmosphere
can't be any hotter than the
Other reports say the water is probably very salty, and it is probably
mixed in with so much other stuff it is viscous, like mud or syrup.
Despite that, it may host some form of life. There are species on earth
that live in even more harsh environments than this. Although I suppose
they
Hold the presses.
Full Story at 5.
attachment: winmail.dat
At 02:32 PM 8/4/2011, Jed Rothwell wrote:
Abd ul-Rahman Lomax wrote:
No boiler is designed to create very wet steam
as a possibility. Now, the 18-hour test doesn't
involve steam. That was the point. But no
boiler will be tested with water at a liter per second!
That is incorrect. A large
5 of what timezone? What blog or newsource?
At 07:51 AM 8/5/2011, Terry Blanton wrote:
On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 2:15 AM, Abd ul-Rahman Lomax
a...@lomaxdesign.com wrote:
At 01:48 AM 8/4/2011, Rich Murray wrote:
Thanks, Abd, for being so forthright
My sense is that most cold fusion researchers have become quite skeptical
about Rossi.
At 08:58 AM 8/5/2011, Mattia Rizzi wrote:
Galantini said that reads grams of liquid water
/ m^3 of vapor on display of HD37AB1347.
From Leviâs report, Galantini used an
HP474ACR probe, that measure RH and temperature.
In the 2nd email, Galantini claim that he
measured the preassure inside
On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 3:19 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote:
Other reports say the water is probably very salty, and it is probably mixed
in with so much other stuff it is viscous, like mud or syrup. Despite that,
it may host some form of life. There are species on earth that live
On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 3:27 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote:
Hold the presses.
Full Story at 5.
Wouldn't surprise me in the least. IMO, AR is slowing their progress.
I think they are ready to progress the business and don't want to
wait on AR to have his 15 minutes of f(l)ame to
Also, if they wait until October, there might not be a Europe to save.
Besides, all the speculation due to Rossi's silly demonstrations is
hurting their image and potential business. They have glycol closed
loop systems ready for production and the walls are falling down
around them.
Damn
Rich,
I see Mr. Rothwell has found his own unique way of assessing your
assessments of his alleged faults.
According to Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mensch
...the Yiddish term mensch means a person of integrity and honor.
Actually, your response is somewhat cryptic and open to
At 12:27 PM 8/5/2011, Jones Beene wrote:
Hold the presses.
I can't load that. Is there a link to it somewhere?
Abd ul-Rahman Lomax a...@lomaxdesign.com wrote:
No boiler would be tested with absolute maximum possible flow rate, raising
the temperature only five degrees, with the measurement being taken inside
the boiler, instead of external to it.
That is incorrect. I have seen people do boiler tests
At 01:18 PM 8/5/2011, Alan J Fletcher wrote:
I can't load that. Is there a link to it somewhere?
I meant the winmail.dat attachment ... but that seems to be attached
to all your posts. I thought it contained the scoop on your hold the presses.
Re: “DESCRIBE PERSONALLY PERCEIVED FAULTS IN OTHERS”
This predisposition of many mainstream critics of out-of-the-box thinkers as
abnormal and aberrant is deeply rooted in human nature as an evolutionary
adaptation fostered by natural selection to enhance the survival of the
race.
The
The MRO images are breathtaking. The satellite is powerful enough to
photograph the tracks left by the Spirit and Opportunity rovers.
Say what one will about NASA's faults, but when they hit a bull's eye
the results can be spectacular. With funding on the construction of
the IST winding down it
Too many alpha males trying to run the same pack.
Adjustments are inevitable.
Perhaps too many alpha females too. ;-)
Regards
Steven Vincent Johnson
www.OrionWorks.com
www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Wait a minute! I thought Defkalion and Rossi were supposed to be in
cahoots with each other.
Well, shoot! Who's minding the conspiracy now!
Regards
Steven Vincent Johnson
www.OrionWorks.com
www.zazzle.com/orionworks
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/mollier-diagram-water-d_308.html shows a
Mollier diagram, but I see no way to use this diagram to determine steam
quality.
Dear Abd,
I use like this:
Take the isobaric curve;
Find intersection with temperature.
Now you can read the steam quality using the
Abd ul-Rahman Lomax a...@lomaxdesign.com wrote:
Isn't it interesting that the only test that had a possibility of actually
showing significant heat not only shows much more heat than the open
demonstrations purport to show, but also involves nobody but involved
persons.
That might be
On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 4:29 PM, Alan J Fletcher a...@well.com wrote:
I meant the winmail.dat attachment ... but that seems to be attached to all
your posts. I thought it contained the scoop on your hold the presses.
That results from Jones' use of Outlook as his mailer.
T
...and another thing!
On a more serious note...
The split suggest to me that Defkalion's management may have finally
had enuf of Rossi's continued tinkering of his eCat design. When it
comes to meeting deadlines pertaining to the rollout of a brand new
product there comes a point when management
Anyway i searched all possible reference of text written on the internet by
Galantini about the e-cat measurements and he does not mention steam tables
nor Mollier diagrams but psychrometric tables which i do not understand how
to use with steam... does anyone have a clue?
mic
Il giorno
On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 5:08 PM, OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson
svj.orionwo...@gmail.com wrote:
Rossi is an engineer - an inventor by nature. Engineers strike me as
often being in a perpetual state of tinkering with their inventions..
So true. In another life, I was a product engineer for a
Okay, this is from the Village of the Banned:
Meanwhile, back at the farm, I am in occasional email contact with a
member of a group who plan to go to Greece sometime in September for a
week of evaluation of a Defkalion Hyperion device. Information this
person sent me so far is that the testing
Did I say, she is also a skeptic; but, seems quite technical.
T
Do you have something to back this up, or are you just trolling again?
From: Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Friday, August 5, 2011 3:27 PM
Subject: [Vo]:Rossi and Defkalion Split-up?
Hold the presses.
Full Story at 5.
2011/8/6 Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com:
On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 4:29 PM, Alan J Fletcher a...@well.com wrote:
I meant the winmail.dat attachment ... but that seems to be attached to all
your posts. I thought it contained the scoop on your hold the presses.
That results from Jones' use of
Could it?
http://www.hyperionfinancial.com/
Here we go round the mulberry bush . . .
T
At 09:15 AM 8/5/2011, Enzo wrote:
On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 8:15 AM, Abd ul-Rahman Lomax
a...@lomaxdesign.com wrote:
By the way, the 18-hour test, on its own, certainly seems convincing, but
the problem is that we can't trust it.
It's seems to me that most of the people talking about
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FuHJBIMj_rsNR=1
Is that steam quality OK ?
- Original Message -
From: OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson svj.orionwo...@gmail.com
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Cc:
Sent: Friday, August 5, 2011 4:40:07 PM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Rossi and Defkalion Split-up?
T oo many alpha males trying to run the same pack.
Adjustments are inevitable.
2011/8/5 Abd ul-Rahman Lomax a...@lomaxdesign.com:
The device has a pressure sensor in it,
the pressure sensor is not in the probe. It's looking like Galantini assumed
he was getting a pressure reading from the probe he'd placed in the E-cat,
hence his error.
This is too simple explanation!
Terry Blanton quotes Mary Yogo:
Edit to add: Also according to the same source, Rossi is considered
unreliable by Defkalion and they are proceeding with their program
more or less without him. His claims are, apparently, not their
claims.
I don't think this is true. Defkalion has
At 09:38 AM 8/5/2011, Daniel Rocha wrote:
Let me get this simple to you. You are WRONG.
We can stop right here. Daniel, you have sent this message to an
entire mailing list. There is nothing in your message that indicates
to whom or to what you are responding.
There is nothing in your
At 10:17 AM 8/5/2011, Jouni Valkonen wrote:
Any probe that measures temperature in boiling water system measures
also pressure. That is because boiling point of water is directly
depended on pressure.
Jouni, you can't see the forest for the trees. Sure, temperature will
depend on pressure.
At 10:29 AM 8/5/2011, Daniel Rocha wrote:
By knowing the RH, you will know the steam quality, adding
temperature and output, you will find the pressure inside the chamber.
That's nonsense. Relative humidity maxes at 100%. The device used
doesn't even reach that level.
Steam quality has
Its not an executable, .dat means its a data file. It has processing
instructions for outlook servers. Basically it means its not just
outlook, but a work server outlook.
On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 2:28 PM, Jouni Valkonen jounivalko...@gmail.com wrote:
2011/8/6 Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com:
On
2011/8/6 Abd ul-Rahman Lomax a...@lomaxdesign.com:
At 10:17 AM 8/5/2011, Jouni Valkonen wrote:
Any probe that measures temperature in boiling water system measures
also pressure. That is because boiling point of water is directly
depended on pressure.
Jouni, you can't see the forest for the
On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 10:05 PM, Abd ul-Rahman Lomax
a...@lomaxdesign.com wrote:
At 09:15 AM 8/5/2011, Enzo wrote:
1) Rossi-Focardi had given a private demonstration of their reactor to
the University of Bologna (the so called 18-hour test) which later
signed a contract to study the reactor.
At 10:41 AM 8/5/2011, Daniel Rocha wrote:
Yes, he measured the pressure. He doesn't need an instrument
specific for that. You don't need an instrument for every data you
want to find. For example, even in any big particle colliders you
don't see all of the resulting colliding particles. You
At 10:51 AM 8/5/2011, Daniel Rocha wrote:
There is no need for literature. If you have 1bar or less and any
temperature above 100C, with 0% RH, you have no liquid water in any
kind of gas, even if that gas is steam.
Actually, if the gas is 100% steam, the RH is 100%.
Yes. The statement is
At 04:03 PM 8/5/2011, Enzo wrote:
For the announcement of the University of Bologna take a look here:
http://www.df.unibo.it/bacheca/bacheca.htm
Google translate of PDF file :
Notice (google says Warning)
Bologna 29 June 2011
The Department of Physics of the Alma Mater
Studiorum -
At 11:00 AM 8/5/2011, Daniel Rocha wrote:
The probe can work util 150C. It doesn't need to be that one that
measure pressure directly.
that's right. However, how are you going to measure temperature of
100 C, and the pressure, with a pressure probe only rated for 60 C?
Sure, you can measure
At 11:04 AM 8/5/2011, Daniel Rocha wrote:
This is the reason why you need to know only one measured variable
from E-Cat and that is the temperature of steam.
You need also RH to make sure there is no mist.
RH does not vary with mist. Mist is at RH of 100%. As is saturated
steam. No matter
At 11:07 AM 8/5/2011, Daniel Rocha wrote:
No, not a circular demonstration. Steam is dry because P=1bar, and
T100 cosidering that the measured RH=0.
Where is the measured RH found to be zero? Daniel, you are very far
off the wall here.
What you've done is to accept Galantini's statement,
2011/8/6 Abd ul-Rahman Lomax a...@lomaxdesign.com:
Boilers, however, do not ordinarily have liquid water spilling over the edge
of a hole in the side of the boiler, at a pace determined by the difference
between the pumped rate and the vaporization rate. If there is substantial
steam (my very
On Sat, Aug 6, 2011 at 1:20 AM, Alan J Fletcher a...@well.com wrote:
At 04:03 PM 8/5/2011, Enzo wrote:
For the announcement of the University of Bologna take a look here:
http://www.df.unibo.it/bacheca/bacheca.htm
Google translate of PDF file :
Notice (google says Warning)
A slightly
In reply to Terry Blanton's message of Mon, 1 Aug 2011 13:37:17 -0400:
Hi,
[snip]
Like Art's Parts, these artifacts of the Roswell crash show isotopic anomalies:
http://www.openminds.tv/test-confirms-roswell-debris-733/
We had always planned to check small animal lairs if we ever had a
chance
eee, maybe Rich is a which doctor...
Yes, this describes Rich very well during his 69 years of life -- here
is his most recent epistle attempting to lure others into unusual
scientific researches:
On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 1:30 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:
Re: “DESCRIBE PERSONALLY PERCEIVED FAULTS IN OTHERS”
This
Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com wrote:
Damn straight, I'd separate myself from Rossi. He still gets his
€200M, after all.
Wasn't it €100M?
I hope he gets the money. He deserves it.
- Jed
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