Re: [Vo]:Will tests surface mounted thermocouples on pipe

2011-12-08 Thread peter . heckert
I think it is not necessary to test something that is known and expected from theory and experience. If there is no thermal flow, then there are no temperature differences, this is known from physics. So especially when the measurment location is wrapped with thermal isolation a thermoelement

[Vo]:takahashi's electron capture

2011-12-08 Thread Joshua Cude
Krivit has put up the abstract for Takahashi's paper at the JCF-12 meeting. In it he proposes a WL-like electron capture by a proton. He claims the energy threshold for this reaction is 272 keV, and that it is exceeded by 600 keV electrons in his magic lattice. Could someone explain how they get

RE: [Vo]:Attenuation of decay rate in E-Cat

2011-12-08 Thread Mark Iverson-ZeroPoint
Axil: Let me take a stab at your question: Why should coherent protons be any better at thermalizing gamma radiation than ordinary protons? (Especially if that coherence is limited to pairs). The coherent photons are acting as a resonant antenna. I'm sure many have played around with

[Vo]:Nasa Patents Method to Create Heavy Electrons

2011-12-08 Thread Craig Haynie
I just became aware of this. Zawodny, working for Nasa, has recently patented a method to create heavy electrons used to produce the cold fusion effect from the Widom-Larsen theory. http://tinyurl.com/7sffvkc http://tinyurl.com/7nznmhz Heavy electrons exhibit properties such as unconventional

Re: [Vo]:Brian Ahern presentation with comments

2011-12-08 Thread Akira Shirakawa
On 2011-12-08 05:53, Aussie Guy E-Cat wrote: http://citi5.org/launch/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Energy-Localization-No8-11.ppt It appears you can see the notes only if you DON'T view the slides in presentation mode. This might not be possible on all programs that can read this file. For

Re: [Vo]:Brian Ahern Will Not Be Presenting on December 7, 2011

2011-12-08 Thread Akira Shirakawa
On 2011-12-08 04:49, Joshua Cude wrote: Looking at the slides, it's not surprising he bailed. The talk doesn't look finished. Like he never got past the introduction. If you check out presenter slide notes with PowerPoint (not PowerPoint reader) or OpenOffice/LibreOffice, you can get access

[Vo]:Resonance

2011-12-08 Thread Terry Blanton
Some interesting items on the subject PLUS and ad for Rossi's Clic glasses: http://forgetomori.com/2011/science/colored-vibrating-sand-buddhist-singing-bowls-and-levitating-megaliths/ T

[Vo]:SETI Back on Track

2011-12-08 Thread Terry Blanton
Gnorts, Mr. Alien! Thanks to funding from none other than the US Space Command: http://www.redorbit.com/news/space/1112435819/seti-back-on-track-after-us-military-funding and now they will direct their observations to Goldilocks planets discovered by the Kepler space telescope. Note the

[Vo]:Article - Quantum Entanglement Allows Diamonds to Communicate

2011-12-08 Thread Michele Comitini
http://www.laboratoryequipment.com/news-Quantum-Entanglement-Allows-Diamonds-to-Communicate-120511.aspx?xmlmenuid=51 Researchers have managed to get one small diamond to communicate with another small diamond utilizing quantum entanglement, one of the more mind-blowing features of quantum

RE: [Vo]:Resonance

2011-12-08 Thread Robert Leguillon
I'd never seen the website before; thanks for the introduction. Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2011 07:26:33 -0500 From: hohlr...@gmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]:Resonance Some interesting items on the subject PLUS and ad for Rossi's Clic glasses:

RE: [Vo]:Article - Quantum Entanglement Allows Diamonds to Communicate

2011-12-08 Thread Robert Leguillon
Next time we send out some Mars Rovers, we swap the communications antennae with a Quantum Entangled Crystal (QEX) array, and, voila! Real-time communications and driving will make the missions much more productive. Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2011 14:29:12 +0100 From: michele.comit...@gmail.com

Re: [Vo]:Article - Quantum Entanglement Allows Diamonds to Communicate

2011-12-08 Thread OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson
From Robert Michele http://www.laboratoryequipment.com/news-Quantum-Entanglement-Allows-Diamonds-to-Communicate-120511.aspx?xmlmenuid=51 Next time we send out some Mars Rovers, we swap the communications antennae with a Quantum Entangled Crystal (QEX) array, and, voila! Real-time

Re: [Vo]:a long paper about and mainly against the E-cat

2011-12-08 Thread Jed Rothwell
Mary Yugo maryyu...@gmail.com wrote: So there was an uninspected volume of about 30 cube centimeters cube. Right. That's what I said. There is no way equipment in such a small cube can explain the heat. I said: They have not seen inside the cell (which is inside the reactor) but the volume of

Re: [Vo]:Will tests surface mounted thermocouples on pipe

2011-12-08 Thread Jed Rothwell
peter.heck...@arcor.de wrote: It is necessary to think about unexpected effects: It is clear, in Rossis setup there was a thermal flow and an unwanted temperature difference close to the thermoelement. If the steam inlet was 100 degree and the water outlet was 20 degree then inbetween in

Re: [Vo]:a long paper about and mainly against the E-cat

2011-12-08 Thread Joshua Cude
On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 8:54 AM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: Mary Yugo maryyu...@gmail.com wrote: So there was an uninspected volume of about 30 cube centimeters cube. Right. That's what I said. There is no way equipment in such a small cube can explain the heat. I said: They

Re: [Vo]:a long paper about and mainly against the E-cat

2011-12-08 Thread Daniel Rocha
Isn't the hidden volume 24x24x5= 2880cm^3 large? 2011/12/8 Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com Mary Yugo maryyu...@gmail.com wrote: So there was an uninspected volume of about 30 cube centimeters cube. Right. That's what I said. There is no way equipment in such a small cube can explain

Re: [Vo]:Will tests surface mounted thermocouples on pipe

2011-12-08 Thread peter . heckert
- Original Nachricht Von: Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com An: vortex-l@eskimo.com Datum: 08.12.2011 15:59 Betreff: Re: [Vo]:Will tests surface mounted thermocouples on pipe peter.heck...@arcor.de wrote: It is necessary to think about unexpected effects: It is

Aw: [Vo]:Article - Quantum Entanglement Allows Diamonds to Communicate

2011-12-08 Thread peter . heckert
- Original Nachricht Von: Michele Comitini michele.comit...@gmail.com An: vortex-l@eskimo.com vortex-l@eskimo.com Datum: 08.12.2011 14:29 Betreff: [Vo]:Article - Quantum Entanglement Allows Diamonds to Communicate

Re: [Vo]:Will tests surface mounted thermocouples on pipe

2011-12-08 Thread peter . heckert
- Original Nachricht Von: Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com An: vortex-l@eskimo.com Datum: 08.12.2011 15:59 Betreff: Re: [Vo]:Will tests surface mounted thermocouples on pipe peter.heck...@arcor.de wrote: It is necessary to think about unexpected effects: It is

Re: [Vo]:Will tests surface mounted thermocouples on pipe

2011-12-08 Thread Jed Rothwell
[I sent this message with 2 itty-bitty photos attached. It probably bounced.] Okay. I did some rudimentary tests with thermocouples taped to the outside of flexible braided 1/2 inch pipes under my bathroom sink. I can supply the gory details if anyone is interested. Summary: I measured in the

[Vo]:Brian Ahern presentation with comments

2011-12-08 Thread fznidarsic
I'd say he missed the whole thing. The vibrations in the dissolved hydrogen are not like that of a gas in air where the interaction takes place with only its neighbors. It's a proton conductor and more like a electrical conductor. The charge movement affects other protons across a

Re: [Vo]:Will tests surface mounted thermocouples on pipe

2011-12-08 Thread Jed Rothwell
peter.heck...@arcor.de wrote: How can you say this is incorrect? Do you know everything, great master? I can say that because Houkes knows what he is doing, other experts agree with him, and it has been my experience that the water temperature in a pipe dominates the surface temperature even

Re: [Vo]:Will tests surface mounted thermocouples on pipe

2011-12-08 Thread peter . heckert
- Original Nachricht Von: Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com An: vortex-l@eskimo.com Datum: 08.12.2011 17:00 Betreff: Re: [Vo]:Will tests surface mounted thermocouples on pipe peter.heck...@arcor.de wrote: How can you say this is incorrect? Do you know everything,

Re: [Vo]:a long paper about and mainly against the E-cat

2011-12-08 Thread Mary Yugo
On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 6:54 AM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: Mary Yugo maryyu...@gmail.com wrote: So there was an uninspected volume of about 30 cube centimeters cube. In other words 27,000 cc. Not 30 cc. You can't hide a lot of stuff in some 30,000 cc of space?

RE: [Vo]:a long paper about and mainly against the E-cat

2011-12-08 Thread Robert Leguillon
Mats referenced a box inside, bolted to the bottom with a heat sink on top, measuring 30cmx30cmx30cm. He couldn't see inside of it, just a box with some port connections for hydrogen, heater, and, presumably, RF. So, assuming, say 4cm for the heat exchanger, this could be 30x30x26, or

RE: [Vo]:Will tests surface mounted thermocouples on pipe

2011-12-08 Thread Robert Leguillon
Unfortunately, it's not quite that simple for two reasons: 1) the secondary flow rate was much higher than the primary, moving the equilibrium point closer to the hot side 2) the primary flow rate is unknown, and quite possible variable, moving the equilibrium point back and forth 3) the

RE: [Vo]:Will tests surface mounted thermocouples on pipe

2011-12-08 Thread Robert Leguillon
for two reasons:... errr... the third reason was a backup reason Should either of the first two reasons be disqualified before competition, the third reason knows whole routine. From: robert.leguil...@hotmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: [Vo]:Will tests surface mounted

Re: [Vo]:Resonance

2011-12-08 Thread Axil Axil
This looks like a macroscopic demo of the pilot wave theory of quantum mechanics as demonstrated by John Bush at MIT. SEE: Can fluid dynamics offer insights into quantum mechanics? http://www.physorg.com/news/2010-10-fluid-dynamics-insights-quantum-mechanics.html On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 8:58

Re: [Vo]:Will tests surface mounted thermocouples on pipe

2011-12-08 Thread Mary Yugo
All this discussion would be moot if Rossi had bothered to make a run using the electrical heater to calibrate the measurement system. It wouldn't rule out cheating but it would rule out cheating by deliberate or accidental measurement errors.

Re: [Vo]:LENR-CANR Theory Papers

2011-12-08 Thread Akira Shirakawa
On 2011-12-06 20:15, Alan J Fletcher wrote: I've just finished a marathon multi-day session of skimming through the excellent http://lenr-canr.org http://lenr-canr.org/ library. Another link for you. It contains documents not included in http://lenr-canr.org : http://jcfrs.org/pubs.html

Re: [Vo]:Article - Quantum Entanglement Allows Diamonds to Communicate

2011-12-08 Thread Michele Comitini
Peter, You simply need lots of coupled diamonds. And remember: diamonds are a girl's best friends! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PluRW3_FEt0 mic 2011/12/8 peter.heck...@arcor.de: - Original Nachricht Von:     Michele Comitini michele.comit...@gmail.com An:      

Re: [Vo]:Will tests surface mounted thermocouples on pipe

2011-12-08 Thread Michele Comitini
2011/12/8 Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com: [I sent this message with 2 itty-bitty photos attached. It probably bounced.] Use something like http://imgur.com/ then share the link. mic

Re: [Vo]:Resonance

2011-12-08 Thread Harry Veeder
I have suggested a few times that is might prove useful to model cold fusion processes using liquid drops. Liquid drop models of nuclear fission were helpful in the the early years of fission research. Although in the case of cold fusion I think the drops should be treated as non-newtonian

RE: [Vo]:Will tests surface mounted thermocouples on pipe

2011-12-08 Thread Mark Iverson-ZeroPoint
Mary yet again proves that there are now 101 ways to say the same thing. we all agree the tests could have been done much better with little effort. I think that's enough repetition that most readers know your opinion on the issue. Stop wasting bandwidth and our time unless it's a point you

Re: [Vo]:Will tests surface mounted thermocouples on pipe

2011-12-08 Thread Peter Heckert
Am 08.12.2011 17:20, schrieb Robert Leguillon: Unfortunately, it's not quite that simple for two reasons: 1) the secondary flow rate was much higher than the primary, moving the equilibrium point closer to the hot side 2) the primary flow rate is unknown, and quite possible variable, moving the

Re: [Vo]:Article - Quantum Entanglement Allows Diamonds to Communicate

2011-12-08 Thread David Roberson
Is the entanglement robust enough to survive a long shaky trip? I recall reading that it is not easy to keep the effect for a long time. Dave -Original Message- From: peter.heckert peter.heck...@arcor.de To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Thu, Dec 8, 2011 10:37 am Subject: Aw:

Re: [Vo]:Article - Quantum Entanglement Allows Diamonds to Communicate

2011-12-08 Thread Peter Heckert
Am 08.12.2011 19:49, schrieb David Roberson: Is the entanglement robust enough to survive a long shaky trip? I recall reading that it is not easy to keep the effect for a long time. The entanglement of macroscopic objects is probably not stable enough. It is possible to slow down entangled

Re: [Vo]:a long paper about and mainly against the E-cat

2011-12-08 Thread Jed Rothwell
Robert Leguillon wrote: Mats referenced a box inside, bolted to the bottom with a heat sink on top, measuring 30cmx30cmx30cm. He couldn't see inside of it, just a box with some port connections for hydrogen, heater, and, presumably, RF. So, assuming, say 4cm for the heat exchanger, this

Re: [Vo]:Will tests surface mounted thermocouples on pipe

2011-12-08 Thread Mary Yugo
On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 10:07 AM, Mark Iverson-ZeroPoint zeropo...@charter.net wrote: Mary yet again proves that there are now 101 ways to say the same thing… * *** we all agree the tests could have been done much better with little effort. I think that’s enough repetition that most

Re: [Vo]:a long paper about and mainly against the E-cat

2011-12-08 Thread Mary Yugo
I suppose one could hypothesize that the previous ones were real and this one is fake Straw man hypothesis. Nobody claims that.

[Vo]:Nano-waveguides and Widom-Larsen Theory

2011-12-08 Thread pagnucco
Widom-Larsen theory asserts that heavy electrons form in regions with a field strength of 10^11 V/meter. I believe that nano-metallic waveguides, e.g. tapered (triangular, pyramidal, conical) crystals can focus electromagnetic fields (with wavelenghts much larger than the nano-waveguide) to

Re: [Vo]:Will tests surface mounted thermocouples on pipe

2011-12-08 Thread Jed Rothwell
Peter Heckert peter.heck...@arcor.de wrote: Thermal insulation can be used to avoid heat loss, but because the absolute temperature was not much above ambient, not much loss is expected. Anyway, thermal isolation is cheap and would eliminate the influence of ambient air. 1. Rossi's

Re: [Vo]:Will tests surface mounted thermocouples on pipe

2011-12-08 Thread Jed Rothwell
Mary Yugo maryyu...@gmail.com wrote: Jed's well intentioned experiments won't help either unless he gets himself a heat exchanger or properly simulates it with a nice heavy steam-heated copper . . . My tests were rudimentary. But in my opinion, they helped a hell a lot more than weeks and

[Vo]:krivit and the WL theory

2011-12-08 Thread Joshua Cude
Krivit has written another smug, self-satisfied, sneery, sarcastic piece about the Widom Larsen theory. I posted a reply in the comments, but of course it won't pass moderation, so I'll post it here as well: Although I think you are sincere, and your motives are true, as is quite clear in your

Re: [Vo]:Will tests surface mounted thermocouples on pipe

2011-12-08 Thread Mary Yugo
On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 11:13 AM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: The water temperature dominates. Perhaps if you had a fan blowing on the thing that would have a measurable effect. Perhaps if the thermocouple were in contact with or very close to a very hot steam duct at the input

Re: [Vo]:Will tests surface mounted thermocouples on pipe

2011-12-08 Thread Peter Heckert
Am 08.12.2011 20:13, schrieb Jed Rothwell: Peter Heckertpeter.heck...@arcor.de wrote: Thermal insulation can be used to avoid heat loss, but because the absolute temperature was not much above ambient, not much loss is expected. Anyway, thermal isolation is cheap and would eliminate the

Re: [Vo]:Will tests surface mounted thermocouples on pipe

2011-12-08 Thread Jed Rothwell
Here are a few photos: http://lenr-canr.org/RossiData/T2%20before%20insulating.jpg http://lenr-canr.org/RossiData/T1%20and%20T2%20insulated.jpg http://lenr-canr.org/RossiData/Measuring%20water%20temp%20in%20sink.jpg By the way the hot water temperature varied from around 55°C up to 65°C.

Re: [Vo]:Will tests surface mounted thermocouples on pipe

2011-12-08 Thread Peter Heckert
Am 08.12.2011 20:19, schrieb Jed Rothwell: Mary Yugomaryyu...@gmail.com wrote: Jed's well intentioned experiments won't help either unless he gets himself a heat exchanger or properly simulates it with a nice heavy steam-heated copper . . . My tests were rudimentary. But in my opinion,

Re: [Vo]:Will tests surface mounted thermocouples on pipe

2011-12-08 Thread Jed Rothwell
Mary Yugo maryyu...@gmail.com wrote: Perhaps if the thermocouple were in contact with or very close to a very hot steam duct at the input end of the primary loop of the heat exchanger it would have measurable effect? Perhaps it would if it were very close, but it was not close. You can see

Re: [Vo]:Will tests surface mounted thermocouples on pipe

2011-12-08 Thread Joshua Cude
On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 1:44 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: Houkes is right. Live with it. When you no longer have to insist repeatedly that something is right, there might be a chance that it in fact is.

Re: [Vo]:Will tests surface mounted thermocouples on pipe

2011-12-08 Thread Jed Rothwell
Peter Heckert peter.heck...@arcor.de wrote: If there is an air gap of 0.1mm between metal and thermoelement, then it is not nonsense. I doubt that. I would like to see you prove it. I do not think this would cause even a 0.1°C difference. Can you suggest a way to deliberately introduce such a

Re: [Vo]:Will tests surface mounted thermocouples on pipe

2011-12-08 Thread Mary Yugo
On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 11:30 AM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: Here are a few photos: How does this simulate a copper heat exchanger with steam at the input end where as it happens, the T out thermocouple is also located nearby? As Peter Heckert and others observed, simply

Re: [Vo]:Will tests surface mounted thermocouples on pipe

2011-12-08 Thread Peter Heckert
Am 08.12.2011 20:53, schrieb Jed Rothwell: Peter Heckertpeter.heck...@arcor.de wrote: If there is an air gap of 0.1mm between metal and thermoelement, then it is not nonsense. I doubt that. I would like to see you prove it. I do not think this would cause even a 0.1°C difference. Can you

Re: [Vo]:Will tests surface mounted thermocouples on pipe

2011-12-08 Thread Jed Rothwell
Mary Yugo maryyu...@gmail.com wrote: How does this simulate a copper heat exchanger with steam at the input end where as it happens, the T out thermocouple is also located nearby? Actually, I was more trying to simulate air trapped under the insulation with the hot and cold pipes right next

Re: [Vo]:Will tests surface mounted thermocouples on pipe

2011-12-08 Thread Jed Rothwell
Peter Heckert peter.heck...@arcor.de wrote: Can you suggest a way to deliberately introduce such a small gap? Perhaps with a thin piece of paper instead of an air gap? A thin piece of plastics. This is also good for electrical isolation. Like Saran wrap? (What you wrap sandwiches with.) I

Re: [Vo]:a long paper about and mainly against the E-cat

2011-12-08 Thread Jed Rothwell
Mary Yugo maryyu...@gmail.com wrote: I suppose one could hypothesize that the previous ones were real and this one is fake Straw man hypothesis. Nobody claims that. Actually, several people have claimed that. Perhaps you are not. The point is, we know the cell is a small object. If you

Re: [Vo]:Will tests surface mounted thermocouples on pipe

2011-12-08 Thread Stephen A. Lawrence
On 11-12-08 03:16 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote: Putting a heat source ~4 away on a copper pipe would bring it much closer than Rossi's arrangement, because the heat exchanger design would not be good if the heat conducted to the cold end on the outside of the pipes. The fact that heat exchangers

Re: [Vo]:Will tests surface mounted thermocouples on pipe

2011-12-08 Thread Peter Heckert
Am 08.12.2011 21:31, schrieb Jed Rothwell: Peter Heckertpeter.heck...@arcor.de wrote: Can you suggest a way to deliberately introduce such a small gap? Perhaps with a thin piece of paper instead of an air gap? A thin piece of plastics. This is also good for electrical isolation. Like

Re: [Vo]:Will tests surface mounted thermocouples on pipe

2011-12-08 Thread Jed Rothwell
Stephen A. Lawrence sa...@pobox.com wrote: In fact, the *goal* of the heat exchanger is to conduct heat from the primary to the secondary pipes, as rapidly and completely as possible. Sure, I get that. Consequently, the primary inlet and the secondary outlet are placed in extremely

RE: [Vo]:Will tests surface mounted thermocouples on pipe

2011-12-08 Thread Robert Leguillon
This is exhausting. You're going to blindly believe any evidence supporting your conclusion, and if I were to give you 10 distinct reasons that the thermocouple placement is crap, you'll try to dismiss one, and assume it negates the rest. Rossi is using a herringbone liquid counterflow heat

Re: [Vo]:Will tests surface mounted thermocouples on pipe

2011-12-08 Thread Jed Rothwell
Peter Heckert peter.heck...@arcor.de wrote: Like Saran wrap? (What you wrap sandwiches with.) IDont know. Polyethylene nowadays. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saran_(plastic) I probably do not have Saran wrap, but I have something similar. The thermoelement must not make a hole

Re: [Vo]:Will tests surface mounted thermocouples on pipe

2011-12-08 Thread Peter Heckert
Jed, seriously: If you say, Rossis thermomeasurements are fine, does this mean that you dont see the possibility for easy and cheap improvements? All points that are discussed here can be eliminated by better thermoelement placement almost without efforts and costs. If somebody does not

Re: [Vo]:Will tests surface mounted thermocouples on pipe

2011-12-08 Thread Jed Rothwell
Robert Leguillon robert.leguil...@hotmail.com wrote: This is exhausting. You're going to blindly believe any evidence supporting your conclusion . . . Well, two different methods give approximately the same answer is better than zero methods that you can cite. Rossi is using a herringbone

Re: [Vo]:Will tests surface mounted thermocouples on pipe

2011-12-08 Thread Jed Rothwell
Peter Heckert peter.heck...@arcor.de wrote: If you say, Rossis thermomeasurements are fine, does this mean that you dont see the possibility for easy and cheap improvements? Did you read what I wrote about this? What I wrote SEVERAL DOZEN TIMES?!? Here: http://lenr-canr.org/News.htm QUOTE:

Re: [Vo]:Attenuation of decay rate in E-Cat

2011-12-08 Thread mixent
In reply to Mark Iverson-ZeroPoint's message of Thu, 8 Dec 2011 02:44:29 -0800: Hi, [snip] Axil: Let me take a stab at your question: It wasn't Axil's question, it was mine. Why should coherent protons be any better at thermalizing gamma radiation than ordinary protons? (Especially if that

Re: [Vo]:Will tests surface mounted thermocouples on pipe

2011-12-08 Thread Peter Heckert
Am 08.12.2011 22:17, schrieb Jed Rothwell: If somebody does not admit this, then he must be a blind mouse. I not only admitted it, I emphasized it in my report. However, these problems -- bad as they are -- do not negate the findings. They do negate the findings. To prove a billion dollar

Re: [Vo]:Will tests surface mounted thermocouples on pipe

2011-12-08 Thread Mary Yugo
On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 12:54 PM, Robert Leguillon robert.leguil...@hotmail.com wrote: This is exhausting. You're going to blindly believe any evidence supporting your conclusion, and if I were to give you 10 distinct reasons that the thermocouple placement is crap, you'll try to dismiss one,

[Vo]:Yo: Peter Heckert! Is a 0.1 mm gap a problem or not?

2011-12-08 Thread Jed Rothwell
Peter Heckert peter.heck...@arcor.de wrote: If there is an air gap of 0.1mm between metal and thermoelement, then it is not nonsense. [Meaning there is a problem] I offered to check for this. Heckert suggested a piece of plastic to create the gap. Now he writes: I will check your claim about

Re: [Vo]:New Larsen paper on Large Hadron Collider UFO Dust

2011-12-08 Thread mixent
In reply to Terry Blanton's message of Wed, 7 Dec 2011 18:58:50 -0500: Hi, [snip] I think the most obvious explanation is that the beam isn't perfect, and the occasional fast particle hits the wall and knocks a fleck of material off it. The impact of such a fast particle in solid matter

Re: [Vo]:Will tests surface mounted thermocouples on pipe

2011-12-08 Thread Jed Rothwell
Mary Yugo maryyu...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks for that, Robert. I hope Jed reads it with care several times. I am a bit surprised he didn't know about counterflow. Since I discussed the counterflow here previously, you are bit mistaken. I suggest you explain how a heat exchanger that is

Re: [Vo]:Will tests surface mounted thermocouples on pipe

2011-12-08 Thread Joshua Cude
On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 3:17 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: Did you read what I wrote about this? What I wrote SEVERAL DOZEN TIMES?!? Unfortunately repetition does not make it true. Although some experts question these results, most believe that the reactor must have produced

Re: [Vo]:Yo: Peter Heckert! Is a 0.1 mm gap a problem or not?

2011-12-08 Thread Jed Rothwell
I was planning to do this test anyway, to find the temperature difference between a copper pipe and the water temperature. Just curious. This will be on the hot water pipe. - Jed

Re: [Vo]:Yo: Peter Heckert! Is a 0.1 mm gap a problem or not?

2011-12-08 Thread Mary Yugo
On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 1:49 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: If you have a good reason to believe there is a problem with measuring temperature by putting a thermocouple on a pipe, please tell us what it is. There is no problem in measuring temperature on a pipe in general

RE: [Vo]:Will tests surface mounted thermocouples on pipe

2011-12-08 Thread Alan J Fletcher
At 12:54 PM 12/8/2011, Robert Leguillon wrote: Coming in late on this. General comments : your plastic-pipe situation is a poor model of Rossi's copper heat-exchanger manifold. Let's give you some numbers to show you how futile this is, and how Houke's method is insufficient to model the

Re: [Vo]:Will tests surface mounted thermocouples on pipe

2011-12-08 Thread Mary Yugo
On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 1:52 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: I suggest you explain how a heat exchanger that is ~95% efficient could conduct a great deal of heat on the outside to a themocouple beyond the outlet I think we have some difference of opinion about where exactly and

Re: [Vo]:Will tests surface mounted thermocouples on pipe

2011-12-08 Thread Joshua Cude
On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 2:54 PM, Robert Leguillon robert.leguil...@hotmail.com wrote: 1) We don't know the flow rate of the primary, but Rossi says it's 15 l/h, and you've never known him to lie, so let's assume 15 l/h, or 4.17 g/s I don't think this can be right, because this is already

Re: [Vo]:Will tests surface mounted thermocouples on pipe

2011-12-08 Thread Jed Rothwell
Alan J Fletcher a...@well.com wrote: At 12:54 PM 12/8/2011, Robert Leguillon wrote: Coming in late on this. General comments : your plastic-pipe situation is a poor model of Rossi's copper heat-exchanger manifold. Very poor. I was testing only one aspect of the claim: the effect of

Re: [Vo]:Yo: Peter Heckert! Is a 0.1 mm gap a problem or not?

2011-12-08 Thread Peter Heckert
Am 08.12.2011 22:49, schrieb Jed Rothwell: Peter Heckertpeter.heck...@arcor.de wrote: So what are you saying? Is there a problem with a 0.1 mm gap, or is there not? Are you asking me to waste my time doing a test that will not prove anything? I have never asked you to do this. It was your

Re: [Vo]:Yo: Peter Heckert! Is a 0.1 mm gap a problem or not?

2011-12-08 Thread Jed Rothwell
Mary Yugo maryyu...@gmail.com wrote: There is no problem in measuring temperature on a pipe in general especially if the thermocouple is properly bonded to the pipe and somewhat insulated from the surroundings. I have shown there is no problem even if the thermocopule is improperly bonded.

Re: [Vo]:Yo: Peter Heckert! Is a 0.1 mm gap a problem or not?

2011-12-08 Thread Jed Rothwell
Peter Heckert peter.heck...@arcor.de wrote: I know what happens when a transistor is not firmly connected to the heatsink. How does that relate to a thermocouple connected to a pipe? What kind of surface are you attaching to, of what composition? What are the temperature differences you

Re: [Vo]:Yo: Peter Heckert! Is a 0.1 mm gap a problem or not?

2011-12-08 Thread Mary Yugo
On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 2:17 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: Prove it. Do a test and prove it. Sorry Jed, that's a fair amount of work and it would be for very little reassurance because the experiment was so loose, there were many other known and unknown ways, already alluded

Re: [Vo]:Yo: Peter Heckert! Is a 0.1 mm gap a problem or not?

2011-12-08 Thread Mary Yugo
On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 2:23 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: Okay, so tell me how to do it INCORRECTLY. I shall try it using the worst method you can think of, and we will see if your incorrect method makes a significant difference. I'll tell you but you won't do it. Get a

Re: [Vo]:Yo: Peter Heckert! Is a 0.1 mm gap a problem or not?

2011-12-08 Thread Jed Rothwell
Mary Yugo maryyu...@gmail.com wrote: I'll tell you but you won't do it. Get a countercurrent heat exchanger and hook up the primary input to a good healthy flow of dry steam. If you purchase one and ship it to me, I will try it. My address is at LENR-CANR.org. - Jed

Re: [Vo]:Yo: Peter Heckert! Is a 0.1 mm gap a problem or not?

2011-12-08 Thread Mary Yugo
On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 2:30 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: Mary Yugo maryyu...@gmail.com wrote: I'll tell you but you won't do it. Get a countercurrent heat exchanger and hook up the primary input to a good healthy flow of dry steam. If you purchase one and ship it to me,

Re: [Vo]:Yo: Peter Heckert! Is a 0.1 mm gap a problem or not?

2011-12-08 Thread Peter Heckert
Jed, if I find the time tomorrow during work, I do the test myself. This is better. I fear your test will not be correct. I will use a resistor in an aluminium housing as a heat source and two thermoelements and two instruments. One thermocouple will be in close metallic contact to the resistor

Re: [Vo]:Yo: Peter Heckert! Is a 0.1 mm gap a problem or not?

2011-12-08 Thread OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson
From Peter, Jed, if I find the time tomorrow during work, I do the test myself. This is better. I fear your test will not be correct. It is good that you are performing the experiment yourself and that you will post the results. We all would love to see the results. OTOH, what is behind this

Re: [Vo]:Yo: Peter Heckert! Is a 0.1 mm gap a problem or not?

2011-12-08 Thread Jed Rothwell
Peter Heckert peter.heck...@arcor.de wrote: I will use a resistor in an aluminium housing as a heat source and two thermoelements and two instruments. One thermocouple will be in close metallic contact to the resistor and the other will be isolated by a piece of duct tape. Duct tape is thick

Re: [Vo]:Yo: Peter Heckert! Is a 0.1 mm gap a problem or not?

2011-12-08 Thread Mary Yugo
On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 3:02 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: Rossi did a much better job mounting the TC that I did, as you see in the video. Yugo claims she cannot see where it is mounted. The location seems clear to me. Someone uploaded a still photo from the video showing the

[Vo]:Saintly comments on my JNP article

2011-12-08 Thread Horace Heffner
I had a good chuckle upon revisiting my Journal of Nuclear Physics article at: http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=179 The comment is by Emma Russel, the famous cold fusion nuclear physicist whose work was documented in the movie The Saint. 8^) Best regards, Horace Heffner

Re: [Vo]:Yo: Peter Heckert! Is a 0.1 mm gap a problem or not?

2011-12-08 Thread Jed Rothwell
OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson svj.orionwo...@gmail.com wrote: It seems to me that while you do not say it outright, as if you are trying to be polite in mixed company, you are inferring that Jed will end up botching the job, or worse, cheat. It is very likely I would botch the job. That is to

[Vo]:RFC: Localised Electrodynamic Lattice reaction hypothesis

2011-12-08 Thread GJB
Hi All, I'd just like to put this hypothesis out there to get some feedback and see where the major flaws are: - Small spheres with dielectric-metal interfaces only support surface plasmon polaritons with the spherical harmonic waves of the l=1 mode (the lowest), implying that normal

Re: [Vo]:a long paper about and mainly against the E-cat

2011-12-08 Thread Giovanni Santostasi
Jed, All what is required is that in the first experiments the trick used was different. In the first experiments calorimetry was based on how much vaporization was achieved. When people demanded a different way of calculating heat production the trick changed and now the access to the inner core

Re: [Vo]:Yo: Peter Heckert! Is a 0.1 mm gap a problem or not?

2011-12-08 Thread Jed Rothwell
Mary Yugo maryyu...@gmail.com wrote: I have to admit there is so much information scattered about on the internet that I sometimes lose track of some. Too true. I should gather more in the RossiData folder. All I remember about the thermocouple picture was that it was taken after the

Re: [Vo]:Yo: Peter Heckert! Is a 0.1 mm gap a problem or not?

2011-12-08 Thread Mary Yugo
On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 3:25 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: Nope. The video was taken as he unwrapped the tape and revealed the location of the TC. When the TC was revealed, Rossi stopped and pointed at it, and held the picture for a moment. Someone uploaded that frame, showing

RE: [Vo]:Saintly comments on my JNP article

2011-12-08 Thread Jones Beene
From the script: Emma Russell: Who are you? Simon Templar(Horace Heffner): Nobody has a clue. Least of all me. ... knowing where Emma hid the secret formula, I will surmise that many of us would like to get their hands on it g -Original Message- From: Horace Heffner I had a good

RE: [Vo]:Will tests surface mounted thermocouples on pipe

2011-12-08 Thread Mark Iverson-ZeroPoint
No, Mary, the endless repetition from the same person of the same old thing is what annoys me. In one of your posts, where you interspersed your comments with the other person's, I counted 4 or 5 instances where you repeated the same basic point, but 5 different ways. Yeah, we get it, ok? RE:

[Vo]:NET and Mitre

2011-12-08 Thread Jones Beene
Just up on the NET site: ... Michelson explained that MITRE Corp. is a federally funded research and development center that is sanctioned by Congress to work in the public interest exclusively with government. It helps government with some of its hardest systems engineering problems and with its

Re: [Vo]:NET and Mitre

2011-12-08 Thread Terry Blanton
On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 7:22 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: Just up on the NET site: ... Michelson explained that MITRE Corp. is a federally funded research and development center that is sanctioned by Congress to work in the public interest exclusively with government. It helps

[Vo]:Rossi has selected the primary circuit fluid

2011-12-08 Thread Aussie Guy E-Cat
Another step closer to producing Ac kWhs: http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=563cpage=4#comment-142311

Re: [Vo]:Rossi has selected the primary circuit fluid

2011-12-08 Thread Mary Yugo
On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 4:53 PM, Aussie Guy E-Cat aussieguy.e...@gmail.com wrote: Rossi has selected the primary circuit fluid Oh good! What is it?

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