Re: [Vo]:Interest in cold fusion has waned

[Lennart Thornros]

The whole discussion after the TRAIL is useless. Accusations between vorts,
discussions trying to determine how Rossi is a fraud or not - all of
counter productive.
Rossi has a small window to show that he has something. His ethics need no
analysis. Rossi as a person is of little interest if the focus is LENR.
The only that came out of this lawsuit was that nobody has picked up a path
to a commercial LENR.
The interest in LENR has gone down as it obviously still is no solution.
Still the interest exceeds what was before Rossi's appearance in this
field.
I suggest to change the focus to possible solutions and let Rossi return
with his better mousetrap when or if he has one.
Lennart

On Jul 9, 2017 19:03, "Che"  wrote:



On Fri, Jul 7, 2017 at 8:39 PM, Jed Rothwell  wrote:

> Che  wrote:
>
>
>> Clueless, DEAD wrong, AND delusional. All in one email post!
>>
>
> That is not what I would call a cogent response, but I appreciate the
> brevity of it. You needn't say more, since your responses are canned and
> never deviate from party doctrine.
>
> - Jed
>
>
We are following an old script, here. If you want to pretend there's an
actual dialog going on, feel free. Just don't pretend to the others that
you're 'winning' something here, OK?

In any case: the political-economic aspects of the Rossi fiasco are every
bit as 'cogent' as the fyzix and engineering. At this point -- even more so.

Re: [Vo]:Rossi versus Darden trial settled

[Jed Rothwell]

Kevin O'Malley  wrote:


> You would have to show intent and various legal proof that I do not
>> understand.
>>
> ​***If you don't understand it then you're just as bad as these people you
> rail against for not reading the Penon report.
>

I don't claim to understand the legal aspects of this! I never said I
understand them. I cannot judge whether Rossi would have won or lost the
lawsuit. That's why I am glad it was called off. I am ONLY judging the
issues from the scientific point of view.



>   It is simple reasoning to proceed from "preponderance of evidence"
> burden of proof having failed to "beyond a reasonable doubt" obviously
> failing.
>

I wouldn't know about that. I cannot judge. I have seen lawsuits that went
terribly wrong and deviated from scientific standards. Experienced lawyers
told me that sometimes people such as Rossi bamboozle juries. The whole
business does not sound "simple" to me. From a scientific point of view,
the evidence was 10 light years "beyond a reasonable doubt," but whether
that same standard applies to legal proceedings and court cases I cannot
say.



>   To see the whole thing in reverse, just look at OJ Simpson.   The
> authorities failed to prove he murdered 2 people even with extraordinarily
> strong DNAjklkjevidence, but the civil suit found him to be guilty of
> causing their deaths.
>

Obviously he was guilty. This goes to show the legal system and the courts
are not always rational or scientific. Examples like this are why I worried
about a jury giving Rossi the money.



> ​***Based on your reaction, you have succumbed to the emotion surrounding
> this case.
>

All I did was read the Penon report. That's all it takes. I did not even
read all the stuff about Rossi pretending to have a company and negotiating
with himself. It is a laugh and a half and it shows he is a criminal, but I
didn't bother reading it. Other people quoted it. I don't care about
Rossi's lies other than the technical ones.



> If all that stuff is so provably fraudulent then IH would have moved
> forward.   It is NOT provable.
>

It is provable if you understand elementary thermdynamics and grade school
level science. Read Smith if you want to see what I mean. IH's decision not
to move forward might have been based on factors unrelated to the science.
As I said, maybe they found out that Rossi is broke. You can't squeeze
blood from a turnip. Maybe they feared another jury like the O.J. Simpson
one. Who knows? I do not have a clue what happened. Frankly, it is none of
my business and I don't care. The only thing that bothers me is that Rossi
will now go out and swindle a new group of people. I have heard he has
already started to do this, in Sweden. At least his next intended victims
have the court docket to warn them off.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:Rossi versus Darden trial settled

[Jed Rothwell]

Kevin O'Malley  wrote:


> The Penon report?!?
>>
> ​***ALL of it.   The Penon report, the supposed heat exchanger, all of it.
>   If the Penon report is as fraudulent as you make it out to  be, then
> Rossi would be up on charges for that.
>

Nope. The legal system does not sue scientists for publishing fraudulent or
idiotic reports. One reason is that no one can tell fools and frauds apart.
When I first saw Penon's data I though Penon and Rossi were fools, and I
could see they were copying data from one day to the next, which is
borderline fraud, but I never imagined they were engaged in wholesale
fraud. The full report plus the report from Murray are proof of that.

If the legal system were to arrest scientists for stupid mistakes and bad
reports, most scientists would be in jail. As Bohr said, an expert is
someone who has made every possible mistake.

The police also do not investigate people who pretend to have heat
exchangers and who do bad calorimetry. There are dozens of dishonest people
selling fake over-unit engines (perpetual motion machines). Even when they
take large sums of money from the public, the police do not bother them, as
far as I know. Perhaps they should, but they don't.



>   All the other stuff would be icing on the cake.   But Rossi is not up on
> charges.   The standard of proof for civil cases (fraud in this case) is
> "preponderance of evidence" and IH couldn't make the case.
>

I don't know if they could or not. Perhaps they concluded Rossi has no
money. Perhaps they feared a jury of fools might award Rossi instead.
That's what worried me. All in all, I am glad the whole thing was dropped
with prejudice, even though I wanted to see Rossi get his comeuppance.

The main point I want to make is that regardless of what the legal system
rules are, or preponderance of this or that, anyone with technical
knowledge can see from the Penon report that Rossi is a fraud. If you can't
see that, you don't have technical knowledge. Or you blinded by wishful
thinking. Insofar as this is a technical debate based on scientific &
engineering laws, divorced from the legal system and its standard of proof,
there is no doubt Rossi is a liar and a fake.

Perhaps you disagree. If so, you are mistaken. End of story.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:Rossi versus Darden trial settled

[Kevin O'Malley]

I think the key is to just find nuclear products when you throw hydrogen
and nickel together.   There is no chemical reaction that is supposed to
lead to nuclear products.   3 years ago, MFMP found gamma rays and then
just blithely started chasing ghosts.

On Sun, Jul 9, 2017 at 4:32 PM, Jed Rothwell  wrote:

> Kevin O'Malley  wrote:
>
>
>> As soon as they verify a LENR experiment that many who have the means can
>> do in our garages, the cat is out of the bag.
>>
>
> That may never happen. It may be that cold fusion is inherently difficult,
> like making a fuel cell or performing an appendectomy. We may never see a
> method that can be done in a garage by a non-expert. Let us hope cold
> fusion can succeed without this.
>
> - Jed
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Rossi versus Darden trial settled

[Kevin O'Malley]

On Sun, Jul 9, 2017 at 4:29 PM, Jed Rothwell  wrote:

> ​
>
> The Penon report?!?
>
​***ALL of it.   The Penon report, the supposed heat exchanger, all of it.
  If the Penon report is as fraudulent as you make it out to  be, then
Rossi would be up on charges for that.   All the other stuff would be icing
on the cake.   But Rossi is not up on charges.   The standard of proof for
civil cases (fraud in this case) is "preponderance of evidence" and IH
couldn't make the case.  The standard of proof for criminal cases is
higher, "beyond a reasonable doubt".   So if you can't meet the lower
standard, you can't meet the higher standard.   Therefore, there is legal
proof that Rossi is NOT a fraud.  ​




> Either you haven't read it or your interpretation of it is the extreme
> opposite or what Murray, Smith and I think of it. I have never seen such
> blatant, in-your-face fraud. If this report does not convince you Rossi is
> a crook, nothing will.
>
​***If it is so blatant and in-your-face fraud, then Rossi should be up on
charges and IH should have pressed forward.   They didn't, because it is
neither blatant nor in-your-face.   ​


>
>
>
>> ​
>>
>
> You cannot "file charges" based on the laws of thermodynamics
>
​***I didn't say it was based on science, it was based upon LEGAL
principles.   The Legal case against Rossi is proof that he is not a fraud.
   If the scientific case is so blatant then you should write a paper on
it.   It would be easy, if you're so right.




> and an idiotic report that would fail a junior high school class.
>
​***These independent reports associated with Rossi have fooled PhD
physicists, not junior high schoolers.   Your exaggerations just don't meet
with reality on the ground.​




> It is not a crime to publish fake data.
>
​***It is a crime to use fake data to defraud investors.  Some of these
frauds who have pushed the envelope of fake data ended up in prison.   That
is where Rossi should be if what you are saying is the verifiable truth,
but such is not the case because all that stuff is tied up in a bow as
evidence sworn in, and the law is not pursuing it.  ​




> You would have to show intent and various legal proof that I do not
> understand.
>
​***If you don't understand it then you're just as bad as these people you
rail against for not reading the Penon report.   It is simple reasoning to
proceed from "preponderance of evidence" burden of proof having failed to
"beyond a reasonable doubt" obviously failing.   To see the whole thing in
reverse, just look at OJ Simpson.   The authorities failed to prove he
murdered 2 people even with extraordinarily strong DNAjklkjevidence,
but the civil suit found him to be guilty of causing their deaths.   If the
civil suit had come first and he was found not guilty, no one would have
moved forward on the criminal case.   ​




> I.H. apparently decided not to pursue the civil law suit. Since I know so
> little about the law, whatever their lawyers advised I would go along with.
> But that changes nothing about the scientific content of the report. It is
> fraudulent nonsense. I cannot imagine why you and others do not see this,
> but based on your reaction, I begin to see why the Flat Earth Society still
> exists.
>
​***Based on your reaction, you have succumbed to the emotion surrounding
this case.   If all that stuff is so provably fraudulent then IH would have
moved forward.   It is NOT provable.   ​My

​suggestion is to use your emotional state to generate something for
everyone to benefit from:  write a report delineating every instance of
scientific fraud entered into the docket as evidence.   If life gives you
lemons, make lemonade.  ​

>
> - Jed
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Rossi versus Darden trial settled

[Jed Rothwell]

Kevin O'Malley  wrote:


> As soon as they verify a LENR experiment that many who have the means can
> do in our garages, the cat is out of the bag.
>

That may never happen. It may be that cold fusion is inherently difficult,
like making a fuel cell or performing an appendectomy. We may never see a
method that can be done in a garage by a non-expert. Let us hope cold
fusion can succeed without this.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:Rossi versus Darden trial settled

[Jed Rothwell]

Kevin O'Malley  wrote:

It is proof that he isn't a fraud.
>

The Penon report?!? Either you haven't read it or your interpretation of it
is the extreme opposite or what Murray, Smith and I think of it. I have
never seen such blatant, in-your-face fraud. If this report does not
convince you Rossi is a crook, nothing will.



>   All the evidence is there, tagged and bagged, ready to go for the police
> to file charges.
>

You cannot "file charges" based on the laws of thermodynamics and an
idiotic report that would fail a junior high school class. It is not a
crime to publish fake data. You would have to show intent and various legal
proof that I do not understand. I.H. apparently decided not to pursue the
civil law suit. Since I know so little about the law, whatever their
lawyers advised I would go along with. But that changes nothing about the
scientific content of the report. It is fraudulent nonsense. I cannot
imagine why you and others do not see this, but based on your reaction, I
begin to see why the Flat Earth Society still exists.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:Rossi versus Darden trial settled

[Kevin O'Malley]

It is proof that he isn't a fraud.   All the evidence is there, tagged and
bagged, ready to go for the police to file charges.   All it takes is for
someone to drop a dime on Rossi.   Maybe you'll get some kind of reward for
it.

On Sun, Jul 9, 2017 at 1:37 PM, Jed Rothwell  wrote:

> Kevin O'Malley  wrote:
>
> If Rossi's report proves he is a thief then he would be up on charges.
>
>
> Only if it were a serious crime. Most crimes are not even investigated,
> for lack of police personnel. Also, the police would have to understand the
> report. I doubt many of them do. The large number of Rossi supporters who
> see nothing wrong with the report demonstrate that it is easy to bamboozle
> the public with fake data.
>
> - Jed
>
>

Re: [Vo]:LENR Insights from Proton 21

[Che]

On Sun, Jul 9, 2017 at 3:10 PM, Axil Axil  wrote:

> http://rexresearch.com/stuff/stuff7/adamenko.pdf
>


There is another assumption connected with these sections and it refers to
> cosmology. It is known that there is a great quantity of "dark" matter in
> the universe, and it cannot be detected by ordinary tools. It is possible
> that the "black holes" we observed are part of this matter. It may be made
> of the nuclei of super heavy elements.
> Display More
>

Such a fact would appear to militate against the 'Young Universe' 'Big
Bang' theory, wouldn't it..? It would take a LOT of time to build up such a
huge mass of trans-uranic elements thruout the Kosmos...

Re: [Vo]:Rossi versus Darden trial settled

[Che]

On Fri, Jul 7, 2017 at 7:09 PM, Kevin O'Malley  wrote:
>
> Rossi is the latest LENR guy who has $signs in his eyes.   Patterson was
a solid example of that.   I like the hope that MFMP offers to circumvent
that problem.   As soon as they verify a LENR experiment that many who have
the means can do in our garages, the cat is out of the bag.

A lot of people here sneer at the MFMP, for some reason... and yet
*PUBLIC*, Open-Source Science is the ONLY way forward for a truly 'free'
Humanity. NOT 'private property', 'Free Markets' and 'patents', and all
that most-dubious, proprietary, claim-jumping, patent-trolling 'capitalist'
opportunist shite.





> MIT Professor Hagelstein was going to sell NANORs for a few thousand
dollars but that appears to have gone nowhere.

Me and a few others are still waiting to buy our Orbos. What's with all
this starry-eyed initial promise, just up and always disappearing once
*money* becomes the apparent object..?

Re: [Vo]:Rossi versus Darden trial settled

[Jed Rothwell]

Kevin O'Malley  wrote:

If Rossi's report proves he is a thief then he would be up on charges.


Only if it were a serious crime. Most crimes are not even investigated, for
lack of police personnel. Also, the police would have to understand the
report. I doubt many of them do. The large number of Rossi supporters who
see nothing wrong with the report demonstrate that it is easy to bamboozle
the public with fake data.

- Jed

[Vo]:LENR Insights from Proton 21

[Axil Axil]

http://rexresearch.com/stuff/stuff7/adamenko.pdf

The Proton 21 experiment informs us about the true nature of LENR. That
nature is not simply based on the detection of excess heat, but on the way
that LENR processes energy.

Quote from the reference

The Black Hole as an Experimental Artifact

A.K.: Now we are talking about things, which make ordinary physicists
speechless and the existence of super heavy elements an axiom for us.

And we had a lot of such cases – after our experiments we gave our samples
to other organizations and asked them to check them with their equipment.
And we did not tell them what these samples were. They brought us reports
and in a couple of months they admitted that they had no idea how such
results might be registered, for instance during spectrographic
examinations with lines which are impossible for these elements. "This is
not according to textbooks!" they said. They overhauled equipment, tuned
it, looked for malfunctions and obtained the same results. We told them how
we got these samples and they replied: "So, why didn't you tell us!" We
explained that we did it to keep the experiments pure.
But we have some things which could not be explained, for instance, "black
holes

A.K.: They do not "light up" under any light.

Adamenko: There are various methods of to analyze substances. One is
radiation by a beam of ions and registering reflected signals. We tore
secondary ions away from bombarded substances and analyzed them. And after
an explosion we saw how local sections (20-50 microns) appeared on a
screen. They reflected nothing no matter how hard you bombarded them with
ions. Not only did these smashed out particles of screen refuse to fly, but
even primary ions did not return. These are regions which absorb absolutely
everything, in any range of weight! Just imagine, you shoot a handgun and
the bullets simply disappear. They are not reflected and they do not pass
through. And moreover, the process of absorption has no visible
manifestations. This could not happen according to the laws of classical
physics. We gave this effect a temporary name – "black holes." We suppose
these places contain the nucleus of some super heavy element which has "not
grown yet" till its reaches its limits. A so -called "dump pit ."We spent
more time bombarding these sections (up to half an hour), and only then did
these "black holes" start to return some part of the ions. Probably,
saturation had occurred. These are interesting subjects of study.

There is another assumption connected with these sections and it refers to
cosmology. It is known that there is a great quantity of "dark" matter in
the universe, and it cannot be detected by ordinary tools. It is possible
that the "black holes" we observed are part of this matter. It may be made
of the nuclei of super heavy elements.
Display More

Explanation:

The ash of a LENR experiment contains activated metallic nanowires that are
covered with Surface Plasmon Polaritons. This nanoparticle acts like a
synthetic monopole tachyon. When this particle receives energy, the energy
is reformatted by particle creation into muons. In other words, energy
comes in and muons come out. This behavior has been seen in observations by
Holmlid. This behavior has been predicted to occur in monopole tachyons as
described in string theory.

The Inside Story:
Quasilocal Tachyons and Black Holes

http://slac.stanford.edu/cgi-wrap/getdoc/slac-pub-11616.pdf

And following the link on page 19

The forces we analyzed in this section, which act to force excitations into
the bulk gravitational solution dual to the confining geometry, may provide
a gravity-side manifestation of this phenomenon. This effect is similar in
some ways to the description of black hole evaporation via hadronization in
[18].

Reference [18]
Plasma-Balls in Large N Gauge Theories and Localized Black Holes

https://arxiv.org/pdf/hep-th/0507219v3.pdf

LENR is not as simple minded as many expect, but a complex cutting edge
proof of many aspects of theoretical science.

Re: [Vo]:Rossi versus Darden trial settled

[H LV]

Woodford Investments probably does not want Industrial Heat pursuing the
matter.

Harry

On Sat, Jul 8, 2017 at 2:03 AM, Kevin O'Malley  wrote:

> If Rossi's report proves he is a thief then he would be up on charges.
>
> On Friday, July 7, 2017, Jed Rothwell  wrote:
>
>> Axil Axil  wrote:
>>
>> I don't remember writing a post that personally attacked Jed.
>>>
>>
>> Yeah? Who the hell are you accusing of "spin, astroturfing and propaganda
>> produced by I.H." if not me? Who else? If you are not accusing me, you are
>> accusing other people who support I.H., which is just as bad. You have not
>> even READ THE EVIDENCE and yet you are sure that we are spinning
>> propaganda!
>>
>> Whoever you are attacking with these false allegations, take it elsewhere.
>>
>>
>>
>>> Both Rossi and IH descended into a war of words, IH more effectively
>>> that Rossi.
>>>
>>
>> Bullshit. Rossi is a fraud who tried to steal $267 million from I.H.
>> There was no "war of words" because I.H. said practically nothing during
>> the entire lawsuit. Nothing! All they did was defend their interests.
>>
>>
>>
>>> I hope that the gatekeepers and prominent actors in LENR will guard
>>> against any damage that IH is tempted to do to LENR in the same way that
>>> they did regarding Defkalion.
>>>
>>
>> I.H. has done a lot of good supporting many researchers. The only person
>> who has hurt cold fusion in the last few years is Rossi. YOU can't judge
>> because you don't even have the guts to look at Rossi's own report which
>> proves he is a thief.
>>
>> - Jed
>>
>>

Re: [Vo]:Interest in cold fusion has waned

[Che]

On Fri, Jul 7, 2017 at 8:39 PM, Jed Rothwell  wrote:

> Che  wrote:
>
>
>> Clueless, DEAD wrong, AND delusional. All in one email post!
>>
>
> That is not what I would call a cogent response, but I appreciate the
> brevity of it. You needn't say more, since your responses are canned and
> never deviate from party doctrine.
>
> - Jed
>
>
We are following an old script, here. If you want to pretend there's an
actual dialog going on, feel free. Just don't pretend to the others that
you're 'winning' something here, OK?

In any case: the political-economic aspects of the Rossi fiasco are every
bit as 'cogent' as the fyzix and engineering. At this point -- even more so.

RE: [Vo]:Interest in cold fusion has waned

[bobcook39...@hotmail.com]

What went through my mind was that Axil seemed a bit like a latter-day Jules 
Verne.  Jules predicted nuclear subs that went to sea 82 years later.

On the other hand, maybe Axil needs a little more Li in his reactor. 

Bob Cook





Bob Cook

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Brian Ahern
Sent: Sunday, July 9, 2017 5:44 AM
To: vortex-l
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Interest in cold fusion has waned


This note from Axil reminds me of my friends postings when he was in the manic 
phase when all things seem possible and easy to obtain.


From: Axil Axil 
Sent: Saturday, July 8, 2017 4:40 PM
To: vortex-l
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Interest in cold fusion has waned

My view of LENR is predicated on the control of the quarks inside of matter. If 
these quarks can be manipulated and managed, control of matter at any arbitrary 
distance might one day be possible.

Atomic weapons could be disabled at a distance when the fissile elements are 
transmuted into non fissile ones by a muon beam. The atmosphere of venus could 
be modified to remove the Co2 so that Venus could be made habitable.

The core of Mars could be reactivated with nuclear fire to restore the magnetic 
shield that once protected its atmosphere in the first step at terraforming 
Mars into someplace that can be colonized by mankind. Then Co2 could be created 
to start a heated atmosphere to heat Mars to livable temperatures.

The there is near light speed spacecraft engines that become possible to build 
that are driven by bear light speed subatomic particles.


The energy source that the work of Holmlid is exploring might prove to make 
interstellar travel practicable. Holmlid first assumed that the energy produced 
by the reaction he was studding was some sort of hot fusion reaction activated 
by laser ignition. But when Holmlid studied the type of sub atomic particles 
that were being generated, he recognized that fusion could not generate the 
huge amount of power that the reaction was producing. For example, Holmlid 
detected Kaon triplet generation. He postulates that two protons are being 
destabilized into decay to produce three kaons and 390 MeV of binding energy. 
This very same proton decay reaction was one of the target reaction searched 
for by the Super-Kamiokande proton decay detector to prove that protons must 
decay in support of grand unification supersymmetric theory.

The proton is assumed to be absolutely stable in the Standard Model. However, 
the Grand Unified Theories (GUTs) predict that protons can decay into lighter 
energetic charged particles such as electrons, muons, pions or others which can 
be observed. Kamiokande helps to rule out some of the theories. 
Super-Kamiokande is currently the largest detector for observation of proton 
decay.



The proton decay action could increase the energy yield by 100,000 over what 
was postulated in the Bussard ramjet interstellar system.



The Bussard ramjet is a theoretical method of interstellar spacecraft 
propulsion proposed in 1960 by the physicist Robert W. Bussard. Bussard 
proposed a ramjet variant of a fusion rocket capable of reasonable interstellar 
travel, using enormous electromagnetic fields (ranging from kilometers to many 
thousands of kilometers in diameter) as a ram scoop to collect and compress 
hydrogen from the interstellar medium.

When proton decay is used as a power source for the Ramjet, once the hydrogen 
is collected, it is isotopically purified and the deuterium is stored in a 
separate container. The purified hydrogen then enters storage to even out the 
collection of interstellar gas. This storage strategy will enable the ramjet to 
maneuver freely in space without concern for variations in the density of 
residual hydrogen throughout space. From storage the hydrogen gas is metered 
into a Holmlid reaction chamber were the hydrogen is ignited into a high energy 
plasma via the catalyzed reaction.

Since the continued propulsion of a proton powered ramjet spaceship is 
dependent on interstellar hydrogen, the nature of interstellar hydrogen is the 
main issue of concern when designing such a spaceship. Two aspects of 
particular interest are the overall density and the isotopic composition of the 
interstellar hydrogen. The overall density controls the rate at which proton 
reactions can take place relative to the craft's speed and the size of the 
scoop's area. The isotopic composition determines which reaction pathway is 
best to use

The interstellar density of hydrogen is 0.86 atoms/cm3. At a minimum, the 
energy gain relationship determined by Holmlid  was found to be 390 MeV per 
each diproton reaction (two hydrogen atoms). For deuterium fusion, only 10 MeV 
can be generated per reaction. In the proton reaction, The remainder of the 
proton mass and associated electrons are used as reaction mass. From this info, 
the scoop volume might be 

Re: Fw: [Vo]:Interest in cold fusion has waned

[Che]

On Sun, Jul 9, 2017 at 2:26 AM, Kevin O'Malley  wrote:
>
> The classic case is the Aztecs.   They were taken out over a few short
months in a military engagement from a vastly outnumbered force, not by
disease.


There are a lot of factors involved in any historical developments -- most
all of them acting non-linearly. For instance, the spanish 'Conquista'
would not have proceeded as easily -- spectacularly -- as it did in México,
if the Aztecs were not actually holding a tenuous balance-of-power over
other, resentful peoples: who joined-in with the spanish to attack the
mexicas. The spanish had plenty of experience in intrigue and duplicity and
bribery, etc. Europa was full of it. The spanish had a well-blooded,
experienced military structure, having begun in Afrika and the Canary
Islands... etc. The balance of forces _favored_ any powerful outsider
coming in to stir things up.

So if the Aztecs had been in a stronger position -- the Conquista would
have taken a different course; but the outcome would *still* have been much
the same, in the end. At a longer, larger scale (i.e., the spanish might
not have gotten such a large empire out of the process, etc.)



>
>
> On Sat, Jul 8, 2017 at 5:20 AM, Brian Ahern  wrote:
>>
>> The Spanish had cholera. It was 100 times as effective as gunpowder.

Re: [Vo]:Interest in cold fusion has waned

[Brian Ahern]

This note from Axil reminds me of my friends postings when he was in the manic 
phase when all things seem possible and easy to obtain.



From: Axil Axil 
Sent: Saturday, July 8, 2017 4:40 PM
To: vortex-l
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Interest in cold fusion has waned

My view of LENR is predicated on the control of the quarks inside of matter. If 
these quarks can be manipulated and managed, control of matter at any arbitrary 
distance might one day be possible.

Atomic weapons could be disabled at a distance when the fissile elements are 
transmuted into non fissile ones by a muon beam. The atmosphere of venus could 
be modified to remove the Co2 so that Venus could be made habitable.

The core of Mars could be reactivated with nuclear fire to restore the magnetic 
shield that once protected its atmosphere in the first step at terraforming 
Mars into someplace that can be colonized by mankind. Then Co2 could be created 
to start a heated atmosphere to heat Mars to livable temperatures.

The there is near light speed spacecraft engines that become possible to build 
that are driven by bear light speed subatomic particles.


The energy source that the work of Holmlid is exploring might prove to make 
interstellar travel practicable. Holmlid first assumed that the energy produced 
by the reaction he was studding was some sort of hot fusion reaction activated 
by laser ignition. But when Holmlid studied the type of sub atomic particles 
that were being generated, he recognized that fusion could not generate the 
huge amount of power that the reaction was producing. For example, Holmlid 
detected Kaon triplet generation. He postulates that two protons are being 
destabilized into decay to produce three kaons and 390 MeV of binding energy. 
This very same proton decay reaction was one of the target reaction searched 
for by the Super-Kamiokande proton decay detector to prove that protons must 
decay in support of grand unification supersymmetric theory.

The proton is assumed to be absolutely stable in the Standard Model. However, 
the Grand Unified Theories (GUTs) predict that protons can decay into lighter 
energetic charged particles such as electrons, muons, pions or others which can 
be observed. Kamiokande helps to rule out some of the theories. 
Super-Kamiokande is currently the largest detector for observation of proton 
decay.



The proton decay action could increase the energy yield by 100,000 over what 
was postulated in the Bussard ramjet interstellar system.


The Bussard ramjet is a theoretical method of interstellar spacecraft 
propulsion proposed in 1960 by the physicist Robert W. Bussard. Bussard 
proposed a ramjet variant of a fusion rocket capable of reasonable interstellar 
travel, using enormous electromagnetic fields (ranging from kilometers to many 
thousands of kilometers in diameter) as a ram scoop to collect and compress 
hydrogen from the interstellar medium.

When proton decay is used as a power source for the Ramjet, once the hydrogen 
is collected, it is isotopically purified and the deuterium is stored in a 
separate container. The purified hydrogen then enters storage to even out the 
collection of interstellar gas. This storage strategy will enable the ramjet to 
maneuver freely in space without concern for variations in the density of 
residual hydrogen throughout space. From storage the hydrogen gas is metered 
into a Holmlid reaction chamber were the hydrogen is ignited into a high energy 
plasma via the catalyzed reaction.

Since the continued propulsion of a proton powered ramjet spaceship is 
dependent on interstellar hydrogen, the nature of interstellar hydrogen is the 
main issue of concern when designing such a spaceship. Two aspects of 
particular interest are the overall density and the isotopic composition of the 
interstellar hydrogen. The overall density controls the rate at which proton 
reactions can take place relative to the craft's speed and the size of the 
scoop's area. The isotopic composition determines which reaction pathway is 
best to use

The interstellar density of hydrogen is 0.86 atoms/cm3. At a minimum, the 
energy gain relationship determined by Holmlid  was found to be 390 MeV per 
each diproton reaction (two hydrogen atoms). For deuterium fusion, only 10 MeV 
can be generated per reaction. In the proton reaction, The remainder of the 
proton mass and associated electrons are used as reaction mass. From this info, 
the scoop volume might be calculated as of function of spacecraft speed. The 
faster you go the more hydrogen that you can harvest.

There is a minimum takeoff speed required before the sustainable energy 
relationship is met and the scoop volume may be reduced as the Ramjet 
accelerates.

There is more mass/energy content in deuterium which is about 1 atom out of 
5000 captured.

When fusion produces power for the Ramjet, only deuterium can be used. When 
proton decay provides power to the 

Re: Fw: [Vo]:Interest in cold fusion has waned

[Kevin O'Malley]

The classic case is the Aztecs.   They were taken out over a few short
months in a military engagement from a vastly outnumbered force, not by
disease.

On Sat, Jul 8, 2017 at 5:20 AM, Brian Ahern  wrote:

> The Spanish had cholera. It was 100 times as effective as gunpowder.
>
>
> --
> *From:* Kevin O'Malley 
> *Sent:* Friday, July 7, 2017 7:04 PM
> *To:* vortex-l
> *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:Interest in cold fusion has waned
>
> One of the cool things about cold fusion in a 500 year outlook is that it
> makes for a very ineffective weapon.   Even fire is a more effective weapon.
>
> You know why potatoes became a crop of choice in Europe?   Because when a
> king's army sieged your castle and burned your crops, there were still
> potatoes in the ground that you could eat and you wouldn't starve to death.
>
>
> Why did the Spanish overtake a continent with a few thousand men while the
> Vikings were vanquished 500 years earlier?   Because the Spanish had
> FIREarms.   They had harnessed gunpowder (for evil purposes, albeit).
>
> In 500 years there will be LENR cars, widespread cheap desalination, and
> Cold Fusion powered spacecraft.
>
> On Fri, Jul 7, 2017 at 1:18 PM, Jed Rothwell 
> wrote:
>
>> I wrote:
>>
>>
>>> If I succeed at promoting cold fusion and it becomes generally used, I
>>> shall play an important role in changing the world more than Marxism and
>>> Capitalism combined.
>>>
>>
>> That sounds like hyperbole, but I mean it. I think that Marxism and
>> capitalism are both on their way out. As we have discussed here, I think
>> robots and intelligent computers will compel us to adapt a new form of
>> economy that is neither capitalist or communist.
>>
>> Capitalism began around the year 1500, gradually replacing feudalism.
>> Communism began around 1850. Both are now in their twilight. I expect that
>> by 2100 we will have a new economic system. Unlike every previous system it
>> will not mainly depend on the exchange of human labor for goods and
>> services. It remains to be seen what it will be like. I hope it will be
>> better for everyone, and better for the ecology, but you never know how
>> things will turn out.
>>
>> If cold fusion succeeds I expect it will last much longer than 500 years,
>> and ultimately it will have a larger impact than capitalism had. If the
>> human race survives for millions of years -- as I hope it will -- over the
>> next few million years cold fusion should have roughly the same impact as
>> the discovery of fire. Unless something better is discovered.
>>
>> People who have not read history have the notion that institutions such
>> as capitalism, nation states, universities, corporations and so on have
>> been part of society forever and they will always be with us. Actually,
>> they are recent inventions and there is no reason to think they will
>> continue centuries into the future. They will continue as long as people
>> find them useful.
>>
>> - Jed
>>
>>
>