Just to conclude my question,
from various sources it seems that the pessimistic version of the
consumption of e-cat is the good one,
http://faq.ecat.com/112449/how-much-nickel-and-hydrogen-will-it-take-to-generate-one-megawatt-of-heat-continuously-for-six-months/
10kg Ni+16kgH for 1MW*6month
It won't use nearly that much hydrogen as a reactant - if it really is
using that much hydrogen then most of it will be lost through leakage,
or possibly to remove unwanted gaseous contaminants and products.
On 29 November 2011 10:17, Alain dit le Cycliste alain.sep...@gmail.com wrote:
Just to
One problem with this statement by Rossi that 18 kg hydrogen and 10
kg nickel is required for a 180 day charge for 1 MW, is that it is
inconsistent with the gammas observed (i.e. not observed.) See:
http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg53616.html
The non-transmuted Ni could
One problem with this statement by Rossi that 18 kg hydrogen and 10
kg nickel is required for a 180 day charge for 1 MW, is that it is
inconsistent with the gammas observed (i.e. not observed.) See:
http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg53616.html
The non-transmuted Ni could
As I read it, this is not fusion, as it was understood to happen. So not
much use looking for the products expected from conventional fusion. May
have seem transmutations but no gammas. So why stress out over missing
gammas? The old understand is not happening here. I'm just an engineer
but
On Nov 29, 2011, at 5:18 AM, Aussie Guy E-Cat wrote:
As I read it, this is not fusion, as it was understood to happen.
So not much use looking for the products expected from conventional
fusion. May have seem transmutations but no gammas. So why stress
out over missing gammas? The old
Here is what happened.
Before the test, the e-Cats are empty of H2.
They weighted the bottle on the scale. The reading was 13606.4 g. This is
consistent with previous weighthings, since the bottle was at 13606.9 g on Oct.
6th.
They then pressed the zero button, leaving the bottle on the
Sorry I meant diameter. The inner DIAMETER of tubing would have to be
2.66 - 3 mm.
--
Berke Durak
Am 26.11.2011 12:57, schrieb Berke Durak:
So they had to add the initial mass and the difference, and that's where they
fucked up, adding -1.7 g instead of -1.7 kg. Happens all the time. They even
wrote down kg instead of g. Obviously, they didn't have a 13 ton hydrogen
bottle, right?
Doesnt
Am 26.11.2011 13:04, schrieb Peter Heckert:
Am 26.11.2011 12:57, schrieb Berke Durak:
So they had to add the initial mass and the difference, and that's
where they
fucked up, adding -1.7 g instead of -1.7 kg. Happens all the time.
They even
wrote down kg instead of g. Obviously, they didn't
On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 7:04 AM, Peter Heckert peter.heck...@arcor.de wrote:
Doesnt happen to a Nato Colonel with 30 years of experience.
These guys are topfit, far above average.
Are you seriously claiming that a category of people doesn't make mistakes?
--
Berke Durak
FYI i've found this FAQ
http://faq.ecat.com/113090/i-was-wondering-if-you-may-inform-us-as-to-the-amount-of-hydrogen-that-will-be-required-to-run-an-ecatfor/
say that for 24h the 10kW e-cat use 0.2g of H...
it is hard to interpret about Ni...
the 0.2g might be just the fixed value to fill the Ni
tnx Giancarlo, for pointing this out!
I think what this means is that he uses a separate bottle for
demonstrations versus his own testing. maybe he has a big bottle that is
hard to weight but more practical in daily operation? Maybe
the hydrogen is a red Herring all together?
the small amounts
so two article of the same FAQ are not coherent.
http://faq.ecat.com/112273/how-much-ni-is-in-the-cell/
http://faq.ecat.com/112449/how-much-nickel-and-hydrogen-will-it-take-to-generate-one-megawatt-of-heat-continuously-for-six-months/
is'nt there a known issue with an error of unit that rossi
I don't know if it was already reported but I found some oddies in the
hydrogen consumption
October 6th test, from Lewan's report
Weight hydrogen bottle:
- before filling: 13606.4 grams
- after filling: 13604.9 grams
Total loaded: 1.5 grams
Pressure H2 Bottle: 55 bar Reduced: 15 bar
October
28th test:
1.7grams is 21 litres of H2 at 1 bar and 25°C (gas constant R=4120 J/kg/K).
At 15 bar (assuming same as Oct 6th test) it is about 1.5 litres. If
there were (from memory) 107 e-cats in the 1MW plant then that means about
15ml of hydrogen container at 15bar per unit, including all
That hydrogen bottle weight is a good point. It has been discussed
somewhere, but I do not remember was it here or elsewhere.
This means with certainty that figures were fabricated and also in rather
poor manner. There was initially also wrong units used, that hydrogen
quantity was in kilogramms
Jouni Valkonen wrote:
This means with certainty that figures were fabricated and also in
rather poor manner.
There is no reason to think the figures are fabricated.
Weighing the entire tank is an extremely inaccurate method. Almost useless.
There was initially also wrong units used, that
were
fabricated, so it must be fine.
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 09:51:48 -0500
From: jedrothw...@gmail.com
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:hydrogen refill
Jouni Valkonen wrote:
This means with certainty that figures were fabricated and also in
rather poor manner
:51:48 -0500
From: jedrothw...@gmail.com
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:hydrogen refill
Jouni Valkonen wrote:
This means with certainty that figures were fabricated and also in
rather poor manner.
There is no reason to think the figures are fabricated
am
Subject: Re: [Vo]:hydrogen refill
I have a doubt. Is that H2 pressure just on the loading before the experiment?
But, there is no mention of what is the pressure during the experiment, right?
2011/11/23 Robert Leguillon robert.leguil...@hotmail.com
There are obviously much, much bigger
just to cite data from the FAQ
http://faq.ecat.com/112273/how-much-ni-is-in-the-cell/
so the needed Ni is about 10mg/kW (with pg really consumed in 6 months)
the needed H is about ten times less 1mg/kW
note that CF according to the presented success, need a 1/1 loading ratio
(in atoms) between
Subject: Re: [Vo]:hydrogen refill
Jouni Valkonen wrote:
This means with certainty that figures were fabricated and also in
rather poor manner.
There is no reason to think the figures are fabricated.
Weighing the entire tank is an extremely inaccurate method. Almost
useless
I believe Rossi has lately claimed that there is only about 1kg of nickel
powder per 1MW (astonishing if true)
Oops, according to the man himself it is 10kg, so about 100g per ecat (will
run for 6 months) + 1g of hydrogen per ecat per day.
2011/11/23 Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com:
Weighing the entire tank is an extremely inaccurate method.
Almost useless.
That is nonsense. They were using precision scale and those are
usually telling the truth. Of course few gram mistakes can occur, like
one did occur in January, when Levi
1.7Kg of hydrogen means 850mols of H2, or ~20,000 liters of hydrogen, or
20m^3 at 1bar. I guess even at 25 bar, it wouldn't fit in there...
2011/11/23 Jouni Valkonen jounivalko...@gmail.com
2011/11/23 Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com:
Weighing the entire tank is an extremely inaccurate
2011/11/23 Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.com:
1.7Kg of hydrogen means 850mols of H2, or ~20,000 liters of
hydrogen, or 20m^3 at 1bar. I guess even at 25 bar, it wouldn't fit
in there...
That is true, with 2.5 MPa pressure it would still take volume of 830
liters. So this my idea for mistake
At 04:38 AM 11/23/2011, Gigi DiMarco wrote:
I don't know if it was already reported but I found some oddies in
the hydrogen consumption
October 28th test, from Fioravanti/Rossi's report
For Oct 28, don't forget the restart -- they started the eCat, it
was unstable, so they lowered the
I think the catalyzer might be water and something that reacts with oxygen.
Take a look here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_pressure_electrolysis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-temperature_electrolysis
It think, initially the hydrogen is just to increase pressure of the
system. As the
fudged, but that
shouldn't surprise anyone.
_
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 09:43:54 -0800
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
From: a...@well.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:hydrogen refill
At 04:38 AM 11/23/2011, Gigi DiMarco wrote:
I don't know if it was already reported but I found some oddies
: [Vo]:hydrogen refill
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 12:29:12 -0600
Where on Earth did you guys get the information that it was running and
hydrogen was purged?
Early in the day with a glitch showing up, Rossi said that they had to make a
decision about whether to go for 1 MW output
At 10:29 AM 11/23/2011, Robert Leguillon wrote:
Where on Earth did you guys get the information that it was running
and hydrogen was purged?
http://pesn.com/2011/10/31/9501942_After_the_E-Cat_Test--Report_and_Q-A_with_Rossi/
Description of the test installation the one megawatt Energy
On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 11:11 AM, Alan J Fletcher a...@well.com wrote:
because in self sustaining we had the temperature at a certain time that
rose too much. The system was difficult to modulate.
Rossi keeps saying that. But it doesn't make sense. In all the 9+
months he's been showing
On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 11:20 AM, Mary Yugo maryyu...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 11:11 AM, Alan J Fletcher a...@well.com wrote:
I don't know of a single time he has
demonstrated it or even shown a laboratory-obtained time vs temp curve
that even suggests it.
I should add that I
Yes, he claimed they had to reduce power. Where does it say that they did this
by reducing the hydrogen pressure?
Alan J Fletcher a...@well.com wrote:
At 10:29 AM 11/23/2011, Robert Leguillon wrote:
Where on Earth did you guys get the information that it was running
and hydrogen was purged?
At 11:57 AM 11/23/2011, Robert Leguillon wrote:
Yes, he claimed they had to reduce power. Where does it say that
they did this by reducing the hydrogen pressure?
In the second link that I just posted : To resolve the issue, the
hydrogen pressure in all the reactors was reduced.
I guess my
that is not what rossi says on the FAQ.
he talks about 10mg/kW of H, and 100mg/kW of Ni
however, in my previeux computation I'me made a mistake...
1MW should need 10g of H
and 100g of Ni
if the number for Ni is Ok, but H is a bit exagerated,
for 100g of Ni you need 100g/59=1.7g hydrogen...
Repeat from earlier in this thread:
http://faq.ecat.com/112449/how-much-nickel-and-hydrogen-will-it-take-to-generate-one-megawatt-of-heat-continuously-for-six-months/
1MW needs 10kg Nickel powder, so about 100g per ecat (will run for 6
months) + 1g of hydrogen per ecat per day (in reality far less
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