RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]: DGT Triggered Reaction? Any Evidence?
What exactly do we mean by reloading? It can't be the same as initial loading where hydrogen seeps into the lattice to fill or displace any vacancies or ambient gas already present because once a stable average gradient is established you would simply have migration where any displacements leave behind a vacancy for other randomly moving hydrogen to fill. This sounds much like a long ago argument I had with Jones Beene regarding the need to circulate hydrogen through the nano powder [based on the Haisch Moddel prototype], apparently circulation isn't needed at the macro scale because we aren't taking any energy away from the hydrogen and it can be re-cycled endlessly just using the random motion of heated gas through the geometry. I can see where changing the pressure up and down might modify the degree that the hydrogen is able to seep into the lattice [fractional levels?] but you aren't circulating new gas.. or is this what you mean by reloading ? Fran From: David Roberson [mailto:dlrober...@aol.com] Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2012 12:39 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]: DGT Triggered Reaction? Any Evidence? Thanks Terry, I recall DGT saying that as well. I was actually wondering if the reloading happens naturally as a result of the hydrogen pressure after a triggered event takes place. In this way, they are just re triggering an event that proceeds to completion on its own. Can hydrogen reload into nickel quickly enough for this type of reaction to be a useful energy source and could we determine the amount of time between the triggered events from their scope display? Also, this process reminds me a great deal of the video produced by Blacklight showing a run at the university test facility where one triggered pulse of heat energy was observed. Dave -Original Message- From: Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.commailto:hohlr...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.commailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Thu, Mar 1, 2012 11:31 am Subject: Re: [Vo]: DGT Triggered Reaction? Any Evidence? On Thu, Mar 1, 2012 at 10:44 AM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.commailto:dlrober...@aol.com wrote: Does anyone within the vortex see additional evidence in support any of the above concepts? I asked PDGT specifically if they were reloading with hydrogen for the second burst and they denied that was the case. T
Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]: DGT Triggered Reaction? Any Evidence?
My terminology is probably inadequate at best. I was attempting to describe a system which quickly recovers from a triggered positive feedback pulse. The pulse is not required to eliminate all of the available fuel, but would continue as long as the positive feedback conditions exist. The device can begin to accumulate new fuel (hydrogen) immediately after the pulse ends until it has reached a state that is capable of being re triggered. The reloading that I mention happens within this recovery period. In this scenario the nickel-hydrogen mix has a multitude of sites that are on the verge of being capable of triggering. Perhaps several sites are simultaneously driven and an energy spike results until they are depleted. It may not take long before other sites come on line and then become triggered in turn. The net effect is that additional energy pulses can be triggered rapidly. Dave -Original Message- From: Roarty, Francis X francis.x.roa...@lmco.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Thu, Mar 1, 2012 2:40 pm Subject: RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]: DGT Triggered Reaction? Any Evidence? What exactly do we mean by “reloading”? It can’t be the same as initial loading where hydrogen seeps into the lattice to fill or displace any vacancies or ambient gas already present because once a stable average gradient is established you would simply have migration where any displacements leave behind a vacancy for other randomly moving hydrogen to fill. This sounds much like a long ago argument I had with Jones Beene regarding the need to “circulate” hydrogen through the nano powder [based on the Haisch Moddel prototype], apparently circulation isn’t needed at the macro scale because we aren’t taking any energy away from the hydrogen and it can be re-cycled endlessly just using the random motion of heated gas through the geometry. I can see where changing the “pressure” up and down might modify the degree that the hydrogen is able to seep into the lattice [fractional levels?] but you aren’t circulating new gas.. or is this what you mean by “reloading” ? Fran From: David Roberson [mailto:dlrober...@aol.com] Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2012 12:39 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]: DGT Triggered Reaction? Any Evidence? Thanks Terry, I recall DGT saying that as well. I was actually wondering if the reloading happens naturally as a result of the hydrogen pressure after a triggered event takes place. In this way, they are just re triggering an event that proceeds to completion on its own. Can hydrogen reload into nickel quickly enough for this type of reaction to be a useful energy source and could we determine the amount of time between the triggered events from their scope display? Also, this process reminds me a great deal of the video produced by Blacklight showing a run at the university test facility where one triggered pulse of heat energy was observed. Dave -Original Message- From: Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Thu, Mar 1, 2012 11:31 am Subject: Re: [Vo]: DGT Triggered Reaction? Any Evidence? On Thu, Mar 1, 2012 at 10:44 AM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote: Does anyone within the vortex see additional evidence in support any of the above concepts? I asked PDGT specifically if they were reloading with hydrogen for the second burst and they denied that was the case. T
Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]: DGT Triggered Reaction? Any Evidence?
Von: David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com An: vortex-l@eskimo.com Gesendet: 22:57 Donnerstag, 1.März 2012 Betreff: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]: DGT Triggered Reaction? Any Evidence? My terminology is probably inadequate at best. # Dave, I think at the current state of affairs we are mired in speculation. None of the parties has a clear understanding/theory, of what is going on. So to make sense of the situation, one has to assume, that a) there is an effect b) there is no valid theory c) some tinkerers (Rossi/DGT) somehow managed to tickle the effect to COP 6 - 20 or such. So controlling a possible runaway-effect is the result of trial-and error. No party involved has the scientific and technical skill to elaborate a precise theory of the process. This resembles a bit of Galileo, who did a lot of tinkering with glass-selection and lens-design. Galileo only had a vague idea, how the lenses for his telescope had to be shaped. He found this out by consulting the best manufacturers of glass in Venice, and developed techniques for the optimal shaping of the lenses. How did he do that? By looking into the sky. This is the archetypical case, where observation and 'technology' preceded 'theory', i.e. the Ptolemiaean system. Actually it was Fraunhofer and his likes, who found out the intricacies of lens-design hundreds of years later. Von: David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com An: vortex-l@eskimo.com Gesendet: 22:57 Donnerstag, 1.März 2012 Betreff: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]: DGT Triggered Reaction? Any Evidence? My terminology is probably inadequate at best. I was attempting to describe a system which quickly recovers from a triggered positive feedback pulse. The pulse is not required to eliminate all of the available fuel, but would continue as long as the positive feedback conditions exist. The device can begin to accumulate new fuel (hydrogen) immediately after the pulse ends until it has reached a state that is capable of being re triggered. The reloading that I mention happens within this recovery period. In this scenario the nickel-hydrogen mix has a multitude of sites that are on the verge of being capable of triggering. Perhaps several sites are simultaneously driven and an energy spike results until they are depleted. It may not take long before other sites come on line and then become triggered in turn. The net effect is that additional energy pulses can be triggered rapidly. Dave -Original Message- From: Roarty, Francis X francis.x.roa...@lmco.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Thu, Mar 1, 2012 2:40 pm Subject: RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]: DGT Triggered Reaction? Any Evidence? What exactly do we mean by “reloading”? It can’t be the same as initial loading where hydrogen seeps into the lattice to fill or displace any vacancies or ambient gas already present because once a stable average gradient is established you would simply have migration where any displacements leave behind a vacancy for other randomly moving hydrogen to fill. This sounds much like a long ago argument I had with Jones Beene regarding the need to “circulate” hydrogen through the nano powder [based on the Haisch Moddel prototype], apparently circulation isn’t needed at the macro scale because we aren’t taking any energy away from the hydrogen and it can be re-cycled endlessly just using the random motion of heated gas through the geometry. I can see where changing the “pressure” up and down might modify the degree that the hydrogen is able to seep into the lattice [fractional levels?] but you aren’t circulating new gas.. or is this what you mean by “reloading” ? Fran From:David Roberson [mailto:dlrober...@aol.com] Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2012 12:39 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]: DGT Triggered Reaction? Any Evidence? Thanks Terry, I recall DGT saying that as well. I was actually wondering if the reloading happens naturally as a result of the hydrogen pressure after a triggered event takes place. In this way, they are just re triggering an event that proceeds to completion on its own. Can hydrogen reload into nickel quickly enough for this type of reaction to be a useful energy source and could we determine the amount of time between the triggered events from their scope display? Also, this process reminds me a great deal of the video produced by Blacklight showing a run at the university test facility where one triggered pulse of heat energy was observed. Dave -Original Message- From: Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Thu, Mar 1, 2012 11:31 am Subject: Re: [Vo]: DGT Triggered Reaction? Any Evidence? On Thu, Mar 1, 2012 at 10:44 AM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote: Does anyone within the vortex see additional evidence in support any of the above concepts? I asked PDGT specifically
RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]: DGT Triggered Reaction? Any Evidence?
George Miley and Xiaoling Yang have just published the abstract - A Game-Changing Power Source Based on Low Energy Nuclear Reactions (LENRs) http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/nets2012/pdf/3051.pdf - which will be presented in the ADVANCED CONCEPTS: LENR, ANTI-MATTER, AND NEW PHYSICS Session http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/nets2012/pdf/sess462.pdf - Friday, March 23, 2012 at the NETS (Nuclear and Emerging Technologies for Space meeting) The Woodlands, TX, March 21-23, 2012 http://anstd.ans.org/NETS2012/NETS2012Home.html They briefly discuss pressure cycling to generate heat from Patterson-type cells. Perhaps, someone living within driving distance of Houston could attend, and ask for more details. Also, Yang's and Miley's email addresses are on the abstract, in case anyone wants to contact them. What exactly do we mean by reloading? It can't be the same as initial loading where hydrogen seeps into the lattice to fill or displace any vacancies or ambient gas already present because once a stable average gradient is established you would simply have migration where any displacements leave behind a vacancy for other randomly moving hydrogen to fill. This sounds much like a long ago argument I had with Jones Beene regarding the need to circulate hydrogen through the nano powder [based on the Haisch Moddel prototype], apparently circulation isn't needed at the macro scale because we aren't taking any energy away from the hydrogen and it can be re-cycled endlessly just using the random motion of heated gas through the geometry. I can see where changing the pressure up and down might modify the degree that the hydrogen is able to seep into the lattice [fractional levels?] but you aren't circulating new gas.. or is this what you mean by reloading ? Fran From: David Roberson [mailto:dlrober...@aol.com] Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2012 12:39 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]: DGT Triggered Reaction? Any Evidence? Thanks Terry, I recall DGT saying that as well. I was actually wondering if the reloading happens naturally as a result of the hydrogen pressure after a triggered event takes place. In this way, they are just re triggering an event that proceeds to completion on its own. Can hydrogen reload into nickel quickly enough for this type of reaction to be a useful energy source and could we determine the amount of time between the triggered events from their scope display? Also, this process reminds me a great deal of the video produced by Blacklight showing a run at the university test facility where one triggered pulse of heat energy was observed. Dave -Original Message- From: Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.commailto:hohlr...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.commailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Thu, Mar 1, 2012 11:31 am Subject: Re: [Vo]: DGT Triggered Reaction? Any Evidence? On Thu, Mar 1, 2012 at 10:44 AM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.commailto:dlrober...@aol.com wrote: Does anyone within the vortex see additional evidence in support any of the above concepts? I asked PDGT specifically if they were reloading with hydrogen for the second burst and they denied that was the case. T
Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]: DGT Triggered Reaction? Any Evidence?
I am getting the impression that the old timer LENR researchers are hung up on deuterium and Helium 4 ash as the only true path toward LENR success. Not true. Ni-H is the golden path ahead. You will find gold where others are finding it, not in your living room rug. On Thu, Mar 1, 2012 at 6:52 PM, pagnu...@htdconnect.com wrote: George Miley and Xiaoling Yang have just published the abstract - A Game-Changing Power Source Based on Low Energy Nuclear Reactions (LENRs) http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/nets2012/pdf/3051.pdf - which will be presented in the ADVANCED CONCEPTS: LENR, ANTI-MATTER, AND NEW PHYSICS Session http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/nets2012/pdf/sess462.pdf - Friday, March 23, 2012 at the NETS (Nuclear and Emerging Technologies for Space meeting) The Woodlands, TX, March 21-23, 2012 http://anstd.ans.org/NETS2012/NETS2012Home.html They briefly discuss pressure cycling to generate heat from Patterson-type cells. Perhaps, someone living within driving distance of Houston could attend, and ask for more details. Also, Yang's and Miley's email addresses are on the abstract, in case anyone wants to contact them. What exactly do we mean by reloading? It can't be the same as initial loading where hydrogen seeps into the lattice to fill or displace any vacancies or ambient gas already present because once a stable average gradient is established you would simply have migration where any displacements leave behind a vacancy for other randomly moving hydrogen to fill. This sounds much like a long ago argument I had with Jones Beene regarding the need to circulate hydrogen through the nano powder [based on the Haisch Moddel prototype], apparently circulation isn't needed at the macro scale because we aren't taking any energy away from the hydrogen and it can be re-cycled endlessly just using the random motion of heated gas through the geometry. I can see where changing the pressure up and down might modify the degree that the hydrogen is able to seep into the lattice [fractional levels?] but you aren't circulating new gas.. or is this what you mean by reloading ? Fran From: David Roberson [mailto:dlrober...@aol.com] Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2012 12:39 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]: DGT Triggered Reaction? Any Evidence? Thanks Terry, I recall DGT saying that as well. I was actually wondering if the reloading happens naturally as a result of the hydrogen pressure after a triggered event takes place. In this way, they are just re triggering an event that proceeds to completion on its own. Can hydrogen reload into nickel quickly enough for this type of reaction to be a useful energy source and could we determine the amount of time between the triggered events from their scope display? Also, this process reminds me a great deal of the video produced by Blacklight showing a run at the university test facility where one triggered pulse of heat energy was observed. Dave -Original Message- From: Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.commailto:hohlr...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.commailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Thu, Mar 1, 2012 11:31 am Subject: Re: [Vo]: DGT Triggered Reaction? Any Evidence? On Thu, Mar 1, 2012 at 10:44 AM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.commailto:dlrober...@aol.com wrote: Does anyone within the vortex see additional evidence in support any of the above concepts? I asked PDGT specifically if they were reloading with hydrogen for the second burst and they denied that was the case. T
Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]: DGT Triggered Reaction? Any Evidence?
Axil, Miley, et al, are working on Ni-H cells also. I am getting the impression that the old timer LENR researchers are hung up on deuterium and Helium 4 ash as the only true path toward LENR success. Not true. Ni-H is the golden path ahead. You will find gold where others are finding it, not in your living room rug. On Thu, Mar 1, 2012 at 6:52 PM, pagnu...@htdconnect.com wrote: George Miley and Xiaoling Yang have just published the abstract - A Game-Changing Power Source Based on Low Energy Nuclear Reactions (LENRs) http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/nets2012/pdf/3051.pdf [...]
