RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Tungsten?
Everyone knows tungsten has been a prime suspect since the days of Langmuir and the atomic welder, As I recall from recent thread, Bohr convinced Langmuir to downplay the anomalous heat in favor of the greatly improved welding temps. I have gotten many messages from a tungsten proponent with a screen name of Lebricahn asking me to give heavier consideration to tungsten powder as a catalyst - the idea being that the tungsten electrodes of Langmuir would function magnitudes better with the increased surface area and geometry over Langmuir's electrodes. I suspect freshly milled tungsten powder in an oxygen free glove box would be even better. If the tungsten powder surfaces are not allowed to tarnish they should remain much more reactive once any shielding gas is displaced by the working gas. This goes back to a ZPE interpretation of pyrophoricity where the pyro path is eliminated allowing the reaction to scale to much higher temperatures based on geometry of both the powder and the working gas. Pyrophoricity is already a rare phenomenon in nature so raising it to an even higher level might explain the difficulty in repeatability. Fran From: alain.coetm...@gmail.com [mailto:alain.coetm...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Alain Sepeda Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2012 1:56 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Tungsten? yes it is ited in many larsen slkides as one of the key experiment. tungsten was seen vaporized in an unusual way when LENR signas were seen. http://newenergytimes.com/v2/sr/WL/slides/2009June25LatticeEnergySlides.pdf eg page 59, but many other (including exploding wires) 2012/2/29 Mark Goldes mgol...@chavaenergy.commailto:mgol...@chavaenergy.com 4) If I remember correctly, Tungsten has been used in other cold fusion systems.
Re: [Vo]:Tungsten?
yes it is ited in many larsen slkides as one of the key experiment. tungsten was seen vaporized in an unusual way when LENR signas were seen. http://newenergytimes.com/v2/sr/WL/slides/2009June25LatticeEnergySlides.pdf eg page 59, but many other (including exploding wires) 2012/2/29 Mark Goldes mgol...@chavaenergy.com 4) If I remember correctly, Tungsten has been used in other cold fusion systems.
[Vo]:Tungsten?
I've copied this from ecat news. A very interesting Comment on the e-catworld.com Blog from a user called “Fluffy”. It’s about the secret element used in rossi’s e-cat (and maybe in defkalions hyperion). He thought it’s Tungsten (Wolfram) - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tungsten “Rossi’s Possible Tungsten Line at 8.31 keV In Andrea Rossi’s original patent application http://www.wipo.int/patentscope/search/en/detailPdf.jsf?ia=IT2008000532docIdPdf=id0009056757name=%28WO2009125444%29METHOD%20AND%20APPARATUS%20FOR%20CARRYING%20OUT%20NICKEL%20AND%20HYDROGEN%20EXOTHERMAL%20REACTIONSwoNum=WO2009125444prevRecNum=1nextRecNum=2recNum=1queryString=office=sortOption=prevFilter=maxRec= there are two charts that show the results of an XRF (X-ray fluorescence)spectrum analysis on a sample of used powder from an E-Cat unit that had been in operation for an undisclosed period of time. Although many of the elements found in the analysis are labeled on the chart, one significant “spike” or “line” is not. This anomalous line could possibly be the element tungsten. XRF fluorescence works by subjecting the material to be tested to x-rays, that can knock electrons out of their orbit in the atoms of the sample material. When another electron moves in to fill the gap produced by the missing electron, a photon is emitted. By measuring the energy of these photons (in keV or kilo-electron volts) and how many are produced, you can determine the composition of a sample of material. A chart produced using the data from an XRF spectrum analysis will show a spike or line for each element present. When there is very little of an element in a sample of material these spikes will be small, and perhaps hard to distinguish from “noise” or other elements. However, when there is a lot of a specific element in a sample, the spike or line will have a significant amplitude. The two charts in Rossi’s patent show many lines, some of which indicate a very significant amount of certain elements. All of the lines that seem to be significant are labeled, except one. If you look at the following chart from his patent you will see that there is one line that is not labeled. This line is between the lines of Nickel and Zinc, and it sits at about 8.3 electron volts. There have been a few comments on the web about this graph. The following is from the comments section in a story posted on ecatnews.com. http://ecatnews.com/?p=829 “I went back and counted pixels with MS Paint to do a more thorough job of identifying this component. It’s not Copper at all. It’s Tungsten. The material is a Ni-W-Zn alloy metal foam.” There are also comments on various websites about how Tungsten can behave like a catalyst, and is used in atomic hydrogen torches to separate molecular hydrogen into atomic hydrogen. I remember Rossi stating on his blog that Tungsten is not used in the E-Cat, when asked a question about it. However, after searching his blog at the Journal of Nuclear Physics, I cannot find that comment. To try and figure out if the anomalous line in this chart could be Tungsten, I did some digging on the internet. As a non-scientist I did not understand everything. However, I did find out that Tungsten has a keV signature that is close to the 8.3. According to a chart on this website http://www.xrfresearch.com/technology/xrf-spectra/182-xrf-spectrum-tungsten.html, one of Tungsten’s possible signatures is 8.39 keV. This is close to 8.31, which is what I calculated by studying the chart from Rossi’s patent. Also, I found a few references to Tungsten having a signature of 8.3 keV. It seems like the line between nickel and zinc in the chart could be Tungsten. There are other possibilities, including copper and nickel. However, if that line was copper or nickel, I wonder why it was not labeled? It does not make sense to me that they would not label the line as copper or nickel, if that was the identity of the element. What would make sense to me, is if the element was Tungsten, and they did not label it as such to try and hide the fact Tungsten is used in the powder. So if this line is Tungsten, how does it fit into what we know about what we have been told about Rossi’s catalyst? 1) Tungsten is not a precious metal. This fits what we have been told, that no precious metals are used in the E-Cat. 2) It has a very high melting point at 3422C which is much higher than the melting point of nickel which is around 1400C. Since we have been told the temperature inside the E-Cat reactor core routinely reaches 1600C, perhaps the addition of Tungsten increases the melting point of the powder inside the E-Cat. Something needs to increase the melting point, because when the nickel melts inside of an E-Cat the reaction sites are destroyed, and the nuclear reactions end. A blend of nickel and Tungsten could be what allows for the E-Cat to operate at higher temperature than the melting point of nickel. 3) We
Re: [Vo]:Tungsten?
Interesting thought but checkout the spectrum for Ni - http://www.xrfresearch.com/component/content/article/71-periodic-table/160-xrf-spectrum-nickel.html Colin On Wed, Feb 29, 2012 at 8:51 AM, Mark Goldes mgol...@chavaenergy.comwrote: I've copied this from ecat news. A very interesting Comment on the e-catworld.com Blog from a user called “Fluffy”. It’s about the secret element used in rossi’s e-cat (and maybe in defkalions hyperion). He thought it’s Tungsten (Wolfram) - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tungsten “Rossi’s Possible Tungsten Line at 8.31 keV In Andrea Rossi’s original patent application http://www.wipo.int/patentscope/search/en/detailPdf.jsf?ia=IT2008000532docIdPdf=id0009056757name=%28WO2009125444%29METHOD%20AND%20APPARATUS%20FOR%20CARRYING%20OUT%20NICKEL%20AND%20HYDROGEN%20EXOTHERMAL%20REACTIONSwoNum=WO2009125444prevRecNum=1nextRecNum=2recNum=1queryString=office=sortOption=prevFilter=maxRec= there are two charts that show the results of an XRF (X-ray fluorescence)spectrum analysis on a sample of used powder from an E-Cat unit that had been in operation for an undisclosed period of time. Although many of the elements found in the analysis are labeled on the chart, one significant “spike” or “line” is not. This anomalous line could possibly be the element tungsten. XRF fluorescence works by subjecting the material to be tested to x-rays, that can knock electrons out of their orbit in the atoms of the sample material. When another electron moves in to fill the gap produced by the missing electron, a photon is emitted. By measuring the energy of these photons (in keV or kilo-electron volts) and how many are produced, you can determine the composition of a sample of material. A chart produced using the data from an XRF spectrum analysis will show a spike or line for each element present. When there is very little of an element in a sample of material these spikes will be small, and perhaps hard to distinguish from “noise” or other elements. However, when there is a lot of a specific element in a sample, the spike or line will have a significant amplitude. The two charts in Rossi’s patent show many lines, some of which indicate a very significant amount of certain elements. All of the lines that seem to be significant are labeled, except one. If you look at the following chart from his patent you will see that there is one line that is not labeled. This line is between the lines of Nickel and Zinc, and it sits at about 8.3 electron volts. There have been a few comments on the web about this graph. The following is from the comments section in a story posted on ecatnews.com. http://ecatnews.com/?p=829 “I went back and counted pixels with MS Paint to do a more thorough job of identifying this component. It’s not Copper at all. It’s Tungsten. The material is a Ni-W-Zn alloy metal foam.” There are also comments on various websites about how Tungsten can behave like a catalyst, and is used in atomic hydrogen torches to separate molecular hydrogen into atomic hydrogen. I remember Rossi stating on his blog that Tungsten is not used in the E-Cat, when asked a question about it. However, after searching his blog at the Journal of Nuclear Physics, I cannot find that comment. To try and figure out if the anomalous line in this chart could be Tungsten, I did some digging on the internet. As a non-scientist I did not understand everything. However, I did find out that Tungsten has a keV signature that is close to the 8.3. According to a chart on this website http://www.xrfresearch.com/technology/xrf-spectra/182-xrf-spectrum-tungsten.html, one of Tungsten’s possible signatures is 8.39 keV. This is close to 8.31, which is what I calculated by studying the chart from Rossi’s patent. Also, I found a few references to Tungsten having a signature of 8.3 keV. It seems like the line between nickel and zinc in the chart could be Tungsten. There are other possibilities, including copper and nickel. However, if that line was copper or nickel, I wonder why it was not labeled? It does not make sense to me that they would not label the line as copper or nickel, if that was the identity of the element. What would make sense to me, is if the element was Tungsten, and they did not label it as such to try and hide the fact Tungsten is used in the powder. So if this line is Tungsten, how does it fit into what we know about what we have been told about Rossi’s catalyst? 1) Tungsten is not a precious metal. This fits what we have been told, that no precious metals are used in the E-Cat. 2) It has a very high melting point at 3422C which is much higher than the melting point of nickel which is around 1400C. Since we have been told the temperature inside the E-Cat reactor core routinely reaches 1600C, perhaps the addition of Tungsten increases the melting point of the powder inside the E-Cat. Something needs to increase the melting
RE: EXTERNAL: RE: [Vo]:tungsten and atomic hydrogen
Jones, I totally agree that LOCAL motion exists proportional to applied heat in the MAHG and BLP process and even some motion due to ambient heat in the Life after death scenario of Arata where hydrogen is simply diffused through Pd nano powders. The point I was trying to make is that a dedicated circulation path can release more energy than the pumping energy required to move the gas by reducing the energy required to disassociate H2 when said molecules are migrating between different Casimir geometries (changing relativistic frames). I am suggesting that the disassociating energy used in the BLP device or MAHG device can be replaced by circulation. William Lynes came to this same conclusion in the late 90's and more recently published My Invention of the Atomic Furnace http://byzipp.com/LAHFeng.pdf in 2005 . Professor Moddel investigated this pumping energy requirement early on relating to the Haisch Moddel patent which circulates hydrogen through copper columns separated by insulated layers in the columns and found that opposition to the flow does not increase proportional to heat release. In my layman terms it is moving the drill body but it is gas law in tandem with changing relativistic frames that is actually spinning the drill - the atoms still respond to chaotic energy at the local level (think ac noise = vacuum flux) while the average dc levels vary inversely to the Casimir geometry /suppression. Again it all comes down to a posit that atoms in a molecular bond oppose change between Casimir geometry much more than an unbonded atom. Like The airplane we are at a point where a very fast and precise control loop is required to keep the ingredients near the disassociation point while moving relative to a changing Casimir geometry - It may take very careful thermal and chemical engineering to slowly elevate the output and energy extraction in a careful balance to keep the conditions viable or we will get the BLP runaway spike shown in the Rowan confirmations or a starved slow out gassing we see in the Life after death scenarios. Regards Fran From: Jones Beene [mailto:jone...@pacbell.net] Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2010 4:29 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: EXTERNAL: RE: [Vo]:tungsten and atomic hydrogen Fran - That may not be precisely true. I think that there would be rapid local recirculation of hydrogen within the sputtered internal surface area (cavity to cavity) ... even though it is accurate that there is no dedicated circulation pathway in and out of the tube. From: Roarty, Francis X It was brought to my attention that there is no hydrogen circulation in the Moller's Atomic generator
Re: [Vo]:tungsten and atomic hydrogen
From: Roarty, Francis X Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2010 2:15 PM To: Roarty, Francis X Subject: [Vo]:tungsten and atomic hydrogen It was brought to my attention that there is no hydrogen circulation in the Moller's Atomic generator, I had it confused with the Lyne Atomic furnace. It looks like I should have read more on the MAHG page and less from William Lyne articles that claimed Moller took his ideas without proper citation. Lyne recognized both the need for circulation in the hydrogen furnace and the possibility of oscillation between bonding sates. Moller's MAHG only incorporated the oscillation between bonding states- I saw the water cooling pump from Naudins MAHG page in my mind and without reviewing the site assigned it a false memory of being a hydrogen pump like Lyne's furnace concept. As far as I can tell Lyne was the first to suggest this oscillation between bond states and also the first to recognize the importance of circulating the hydrogen to accelerate this oscillation between states - None of these ideas are really new - I have merely reinvented old ones like Lyne's recirculation of hydrogen, Haisch and Moddel's obvious recognition that Casimir cavities are just synthetic skeletal catalysts, and Naudts relativistic environment for hydrogen in a skeletal catalyst, which, when applied to the aforementioned relationship between synthetic catalysts and Casimir cavities, means that Casimir force should also be interpreted relativistically. Regards Fran [Vo]:tungsten and atomic hydrogen Roarty, Francis X Thu, 14 Oct 2010 08:08:31 -0700 http://www.zpenergy.com/modules.php?name=Newsfile=articlesid=3227mode=threadorder=0thold=0
RE: [Vo]:tungsten and atomic hydrogen
Fran - That may not be precisely true. I think that there would be rapid local recirculation of hydrogen within the sputtered internal surface area (cavity to cavity) . even though it is accurate that there is no dedicated circulation pathway in and out of the tube. From: Roarty, Francis X It was brought to my attention that there is no hydrogen circulation in the Moller's Atomic generator
[Vo]:tungsten and atomic hydrogen
http://froarty.scienceblog.com/32162/tungsten-and-atomic-hydrogen/
