RE: [Vo]:BLP looking for Battery Development Scientist/Engineer
Perhaps BLP is having difficulty restoring the catalyst and is looking to slow the reaction from a burst to an on demand system using battery technology. This could be a primary A type battery or they may find a control loop is all they need to avoid the burn out. I have suggested previously that their deactivated catalyst is only caused by a runaway condition (like cat whiskers in a rechargeable battery) - look at the Haisch Moddel patent which was designed to spread much smaller gains over a much larger surface area and force the gas (rectifying agent) in and out of translated form by separating each cavity tunnel layer with a insulating tunnel layer. H-M propose to use noble gas which does not require disassociation and employ a Casimir Lamb pinch instead of chemical reactions to more uniformly accumulate energy in their prototype. My guess is Mill's research to reactivate the catalyst is pushing them in the same direction as ultra caps and battery design with high dielectric materials so they are just trying to reduce the learning curve. An EEstor engineer would be a real catch for their needs. Regards Fran
Re: [Vo]:BLP looking for Battery Development Scientist/Engineer
Mike Carrell wrote: BLP has already and repeatedly, with Rowan, achieved 1 MJ, 50 kW energy bursts . . . If they can do this, I think they should stop trying to make a prototype practical device and concentrate instead on demonstrating something like this to a large number of people and on the Internet. BLP is targeting a 1/20 scale prototype in 2010, with water as a fuel. Essentially that means 50 kW average, not peak, power. One cylinder engine, with larger clusters to follow. The exact form will be dictated by Nature, not Jed’s wishes. On the contrary, that would fill my wishes to a T. I do not care at all about the exact form. Any form would be fine. A 1-cylinder engine is fine, or if a battery-like device can be made quickest, that would be fine with me. A 1/20 scale prototype would be great, or 1/100, or 1/1000. The details do not make the slightest difference. They should make whatever they can, as quickly as they can, and concentrate on using it to convince large numbers of people the effect is real. Once they do that, the rest will follow. If they fail to do that, nothing will follow. - Jed
RE: [Vo]:BLP looking for Battery Development Scientist/Engineer
Jed, A rather detailed demonstration of the 50 kW burst reactor has been on the website for months. Just go to the home page and click on the boxes and you will get Jansson demonstrating the whole thing. Keep clicking and you will find reports by Rowan staff on the chemistry. The limitation is that it is one pulse and then regeneration of the chemical charge by adding hydrogen. This takes energy and mechanism and arrays of reactors cells to get continuous output. Analogous to a a multi-cylinder ICE. Engineering studies of two approaches are also on the website. BLP's problem is that bench chemistry shows that the catalyst cycle can be regenerated, the physical form after the reaction is not the same as before, so mechanism and energy is involved in the regeneration. Plus, water has to electrolyzed to get additional hydrogen. All this is outlined on the home page and detailed in the What's New papers. The energy yield from the reaction is very high, but the support system to convert the reaction energy to electricity for a self-running demonstration system is a tough chemical engineering task which is being farmed out to three major engineering firms. Look at the typical LENR experimental setup. Many, many steps before hot tea. The demo has to be right and show a clear, do-able path to scale-up. The LENR world is not able to make reliable cathodes nor unequivocally identify the consumables or the facilities needed to reuse the cathodes. Mills is far ahead by such measures. Mike Carrell From: Jed Rothwell [mailto:jedrothw...@gmail.com] Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 9:07 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:BLP looking for Battery Development Scientist/Engineer Mike Carrell wrote: BLP has already and repeatedly, with Rowan, achieved 1 MJ, 50 kW energy bursts . . . If they can do this, I think they should stop trying to make a prototype practical device and concentrate instead on demonstrating something like this to a large number of people and on the Internet. BLP is targeting a 1/20 scale prototype in 2010, with water as a fuel. Essentially that means 50 kW average, not peak, power. One cylinder engine, with larger clusters to follow. The exact form will be dictated by Nature, not Jed's wishes. On the contrary, that would fill my wishes to a T. I do not care at all about the exact form. Any form would be fine. A 1-cylinder engine is fine, or if a battery-like device can be made quickest, that would be fine with me. A 1/20 scale prototype would be great, or 1/100, or 1/1000. The details do not make the slightest difference. They should make whatever they can, as quickly as they can, and concentrate on using it to convince large numbers of people the effect is real. Once they do that, the rest will follow. If they fail to do that, nothing will follow. - Jed This Email has been scanned for all viruses by Medford Leas I.T. Department.
RE: [Vo]:BLP looking for Battery Development Scientist/Engineer
From: Jed Rothwell * They (BLP) should make whatever they can, as quickly as they can, and concentrate on using it to convince large numbers of people the effect is real. Once they do that, the rest will follow. If they fail to do that, nothing will follow. Here is an alternative prediction, admittedly based on too-few facts of who could be the first company to fulfill JRs wish for a breakthrough in LENR, or fractional hydrogen. Not BLP. Surprisingly my pick is Toyota. By way of TechNova. If one reads between the lines of all the recent papers on nanopowder (last 3-4 years), looks at the facilities, brain-power, insight and sponsorship: and then projects all of that into the future (especially the sponsorship) well in Japan at least, Takahashi and Kitamura seem to be on the forefront, and guess who they work for . However, in this somewhat spontaneous prediction, I am placing a lot of emphasis on necessity being the mother of invention and on a past history to move forward with controversial designs as in the Prius. Look at the published attitudes of GM vis-à-vis Toyota when the Prius was announced, for instance. Anyway, I would like to ask Jed, if he has the time - to comment on this company in general - what he can tell us about Technova. They seem to be a bit of an enigma. Jones
RE: [Vo]:BLP looking for Battery Development Scientist/Engineer
To understand Mills' work, homework is needed, which includes study of the website [he means what he says] and not trying 'interpret' his work in terms of something else. Hiring a battery engineer is in anticipation of a near future when hydrino-producing power reactors can support a new industry producing hyper-batteries based on hydrinos chemistry. Such is a few years into the future, but the time to start is now. The pulse character of the current demonstration is a step toward arrays of cells in pulse mode or continuous burn as illustrated on the website. Executing the regeneration chemistry automatically is a significant problem of chemical engineering which is being studies by several firms. It has nothing to do with the hyper-battery, which uses hydrinos produced by the power reactor. It is not a 'primary' battery, but a rechargeable configuration. Mike Carrell From: francis [mailto:froarty...@comcast.net] Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 8:02 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: [Vo]:BLP looking for Battery Development Scientist/Engineer Perhaps BLP is having difficulty restoring the catalyst and is looking to slow the reaction from a burst to an on demand system using battery technology. This could be a primary A type battery or they may find a control loop is all they need to avoid the burn out. I have suggested previously that their deactivated catalyst is only caused by a runaway condition (like cat whiskers in a rechargeable battery) - look at the Haisch Moddel patent which was designed to spread much smaller gains over a much larger surface area and force the gas (rectifying agent) in and out of translated form by separating each cavity tunnel layer with a insulating tunnel layer. H-M propose to use noble gas which does not require disassociation and employ a Casimir Lamb pinch instead of chemical reactions to more uniformly accumulate energy in their prototype. My guess is Mill's research to reactivate the catalyst is pushing them in the same direction as ultra caps and battery design with high dielectric materials so they are just trying to reduce the learning curve. An EEstor engineer would be a real catch for their needs. Regards Fran This Email has been scanned for all viruses by Medford Leas I.T. Department.
Re: [Vo]:BLP looking for Battery Development Scientist/Engineer
I wish that BLP would stop screwing around developing conventional technology peripherals such as batteries, and simply show the world a small version of their gadget producing a lot of energy. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:BLP looking for Battery Development Scientist/Engineer
On Fri, Aug 6, 2010 at 12:57 PM, OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson svj.orionwo...@gmail.com wrote: BLP looking for a Battery Development Scientist/Engineer I think they mean 'bettery'. T
RE: [Vo]:BLP looking for Battery Development Scientist/Engineer
Jed, You haven't been paying close enough attention to understand what is really going on. A prominent critic of Mills has just retracted his criticism and apologized for his rhetoric. The hyper-battery has been a potential product of BLP technology for many years, but one needs volume production of hydrinos to support a battery industry. BLP's offer to hire somebody for a good salary to develop the product is direct evidence of a growing confidence. I suggest you visit the website and focus on the Motive applications of CIHT technology, which is still under wraps. A BLP hyper battery would be truly revolutionary, with a cell potential in the tens of volts and a storage density far beyond anything now available. It would solve the storage problem associated with wind and solar collectors, among other things. Mike Carrell -Original Message- From: Jed Rothwell [mailto:jedrothw...@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 4:46 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:BLP looking for Battery Development Scientist/Engineer I wish that BLP would stop screwing around developing conventional technology peripherals such as batteries, and simply show the world a small version of their gadget producing a lot of energy. - Jed This Email has been scanned for all viruses by Medford Leas I.T. Department.
RE: [Vo]:BLP looking for Battery Development Scientist/Engineer
Mike Carrell wrote: The hyper-battery has been a potential product of BLP technology for many years, but one needs volume production of hydrinos to support a battery industry. BLP's offer to hire somebody for a good salary to develop the product is direct evidence of a growing confidence. I suggest you visit the website and focus on the Motive applications of CIHT technology, which is still under wraps. A BLP hyper battery would be truly revolutionary, with a cell potential in the tens of volts and a storage density far beyond anything now available. Ah. You are saying this is an unconventional battery based on BLP technology. That's a different story. I was assuming it was an ordinary battery that would play some role in the design of an electric power generator based on BLP technology. If it is an unconventional battery with capabilities well beyond the ordinary, I retract my objection. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:BLP looking for Battery Development Scientist/Engineer
In reply to Mike Carrell's message of Fri, 6 Aug 2010 17:57:11 -0400: Hi, [snip] It would solve the storage problem associated with wind and solar collectors, among other things. If BLP have working Hydrino technology, then wind and solar have no future. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/Project.html
Re: [Vo]:BLP looking for Battery Development Scientist/Engineer
Robin van Spaandonk wrote: It would solve the storage problem associated with wind and solar collectors, among other things. If BLP have working Hydrino technology, then wind and solar have no future. Good point. And, if the hydrino technology can be scaled down to the size of an automobile, there is no need for batteries in cars, either. That takes care of pretty much all industrial-scale apps. Going below that, if you can make a BLP electric power device on the scale of a watch battery, there would be no market for batteries at all. If cold fusion can be controlled, I think it is likely it can be used in thermoelectric watch batteries, as I explained in the book, in the chapter on plutonium thermoelectric batteries. (These are not actually batteries, in the technical sense, but they are functionally similar.) I assume they are developing the battery because they think they can get it out the door soonest, before a working generator. That would make sense. If it comes out at the same time as the generator it makes no business sense. But -- with due respect for Mike Carrell, and admitting that I have not been following the story closely -- nothing that BLP does or says makes any business sense to me. Not now, and never in the past. I know some experienced, wealthy businessmen who agree with me. But we have not inside knowledge so our opinions do not count for much. It is mostly an impression rather than a serious judgement. People often say that what has happened to cold fusion research makes no business sense. Especially in Japan. They point to things like Toyota's on-again, off-again support for the field, Mitsubishi's experiments, the NEDO project, Arata's involvement with Japanese far-right extremist kooks and the Chinese government (at the same time!). Here in the U.S. we have the fate of the National Cold Fusion Institute in Utah and the role of General Electric. I have considerable inside knowledge of these events and I can report with authority that these critics are right. These things make absolutely no sense! In fact, you can't imagine how bad they were! In my opinion the lure of money and power and the irrational opposition to cold fusion triggered behavior and business decisions that seem indistinguishable from lunacy. The same is true of U.S. researchers such as the late Patterson, and the late Les Case (pretty sure he is deceased). So I have a jaded view of the role of business in the cold fusion fiasco. No doubt this influences my view of BLP's actions. I assume they are as crazy as the others. I have gotten that impression of BLP -- only an impression, as I say! -- on the rare occasions when I have spoken with them or looked at their business plans. I cannot judge their scientific claims, but as for their business plans, I would be hard pressed to come up with a worse method of introducing the technology to the public. The only thing worse is to deliberately not introduce technology, with the Reding-Patterson-Case techniques taking it to the grave, ensuring there will be no knowledge of it and no benefit to anyone. Sorry to be disrespectful of the dead, but dying does not make a foolish man wise. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:BLP looking for Battery Development Scientist/Engineer
On Fri, Aug 6, 2010 at 6:07 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: Ah. You are saying this is an unconventional battery based on BLP technology. B-E-T-T-E-R-Y. :-) T
RE: [Vo]:BLP looking for Battery Development Scientist/Engineer
With due respect to Jed, and I do respect him and understand his viewpoint, one has to follow Nature and not one's wishes. My industrial experience, seeing several very large projects founder on technical and marketing features, gives me a compassionate view of what Mills is doing and the difficulties faced. BLP has already and repeatedly, with Rowan, achieved 1 MJ, 50 kW energy bursts, something unknown in LENR. In principle, the reaction is scalable, but a lot of work will be needed. Right now, many factors point to the need to work on a utility scale, with miniaturization to follow, perhaps in decades. There are no miniature LENR cells; to work an elaborate support structure is needed, as with the current BLP reactors. BLP is targeting a 1/20 scale prototype in 2010, with water as a fuel. Essentially that means 50 kW average, not peak, power. One cylinder engine, with larger clusters to follow. The exact form will be dictated by Nature, not Jed's wishes. What needs to be *understood* about the battery technology is that it is rechargeable, like a lithium-ion battery yielding 3V. With hydrino compounds, the cell terminal voltage will be in the tens of volts, which makes a lot of difference in the energy capacity and the attached equipment. Being rechargeable, hydrinos are not a consumable as in a 'primary' battery. Jed has long anticipated a time when entrepreneurs will seize a technology and run with it: this happened with computers and software and he hoped it would happen with LENR. I anticipate after BLP mounts a 'water engine' demonstration the excitement will begin, both from the critics and from the tinkerers. There is nothing intrinsically complex about the BLP chemistry - read the Rowan reports. Lots of people will try. The tide Jed wrote about in his book can happen. Mike Carrell From: Jed Rothwell [mailto:jedrothw...@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 6:53 PM To: vortex-L@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:BLP looking for Battery Development Scientist/Engineer Robin van Spaandonk wrote: It would solve the storage problem associated with wind and solar collectors, among other things. If BLP have working Hydrino technology, then wind and solar have no future. Good point. And, if the hydrino technology can be scaled down to the size of an automobile, there is no need for batteries in cars, either. That takes care of pretty much all industrial-scale apps. Going below that, if you can make a BLP electric power device on the scale of a watch battery, there would be no market for batteries at all. If cold fusion can be controlled, I think it is likely it can be used in thermoelectric watch batteries, as I explained in the book, in the chapter on plutonium thermoelectric batteries. (These are not actually batteries, in the technical sense, but they are functionally similar.) I assume they are developing the battery because they think they can get it out the door soonest, before a working generator. That would make sense. If it comes out at the same time as the generator it makes no business sense. But -- with due respect for Mike Carrell, and admitting that I have not been following the story closely -- nothing that BLP does or says makes any business sense to me. Not now, and never in the past. I know some experienced, wealthy businessmen who agree with me. But we have not inside knowledge so our opinions do not count for much. It is mostly an impression rather than a serious judgement. People often say that what has happened to cold fusion research makes no business sense. Especially in Japan. They point to things like Toyota's on-again, off-again support for the field, Mitsubishi's experiments, the NEDO project, Arata's involvement with Japanese far-right extremist kooks and the Chinese government (at the same time!). Here in the U.S. we have the fate of the National Cold Fusion Institute in Utah and the role of General Electric. I have considerable inside knowledge of these events and I can report with authority that these critics are right. These things make absolutely no sense! In fact, you can't imagine how bad they were! In my opinion the lure of money and power and the irrational opposition to cold fusion triggered behavior and business decisions that seem indistinguishable from lunacy. The same is true of U.S. researchers such as the late Patterson, and the late Les Case (pretty sure he is deceased). So I have a jaded view of the role of business in the cold fusion fiasco. No doubt this influences my view of BLP's actions. I assume they are as crazy as the others. I have gotten that impression of BLP -- only an impression, as I say! -- on the rare occasions when I have spoken with them or looked at their business plans. I cannot judge their scientific claims, but as for their business plans, I would be hard pressed to come up with a worse method of introducing the technology to the public. The only thing worse is to deliberately not introduce
