Re: [Vo]: Type A palladium from JM... was Bose Einstein Condensate

[CB Sites]

I wanted to toss a couple of thoughts in on BEC's in solid state.  If you
have never read Scott and Talbot Chubb's papers, I highly recommend them.
Also Y.E. Kim's BEC theory works fits in all of this. They are all in Jed's
library.  Y.E. Kim has a great body of work on BEC formations in solids,
and the Chubb's had some excellent solids state band models that would
describe well BEC formation in solids. A Kronig-Penny model of a periodic
potential demonstrates that H in metals will form band states that follows
Pauli exclusion or D bands that follow a Bose-Einstein model.   It's
obvious how fragile the metallurgy is for crystal structure and period
potential as it will impact the formation of band states and the BEC in
solids.

That said, I think the BEC theories Chubb, Kim, etc.  can really open the
doors on CF realizations.



On Mon, Jun 12, 2017 at 11:14 PM,  wrote:

> In reply to  Jones Beene's message of Mon, 12 Jun 2017 13:21:41 -0700:
> Hi,
> [snip]
> >It should be noted that several researchers are convinced that the
> >silver addition is also a reactant in some undefined nuclear way. Both
> >palladium, silver and nickel are catalysts for the Mills version of
> >dense hydrogen/deuterium - and that is not likely to coincidental.
> >
> The odd numbered elements tend to be less stable than even numbered
> elements,
> because they have an unpaired proton. That's why you see the odd numbered
> elements usually only having one or two stable isotopes.
> It also makes them prime candidates for a reaction where a proton is added
> and
> an alpha particle is ejected, because both the alpha & the remaining
> nucleus are
> both even numbered, and hence quite stable.
>
> Silver is element number 47, and hence odd, so the reactions:-
>
> 1H+107Ag => 104Pd + 4He + 5.852 MeV
>
> &
>
> 1H+109Ag => 106Pd + 4He + 6.043 MeV
>
> may well be "easy". (...and the Pd is worth more than the Ag too, bonus
> point!)
>
> By the same reasoning I would expect Cu to work too.
>
> However in order for such a reaction to occur it may be necessary for
> there to
> be plenty of atomic H on hand, which in turn implies that they are most
> likely
> to occur when the Ag/Cu is in the presence of a spillover catalyst, such
> as Pd
> or Ni.
> Nano particle Cu/Ni alloy might be an interesting place to start, or a
> thorough
> mixture of Cu & Ni nano particles.
> Regards,
>
> Robin van Spaandonk
>
> http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
>
>

Re: [Vo]: Type A palladium from JM... was Bose Einstein Condensate

[mixent]

In reply to  Jones Beene's message of Mon, 12 Jun 2017 13:21:41 -0700:
Hi,
[snip]
>It should be noted that several researchers are convinced that the 
>silver addition is also a reactant in some undefined nuclear way. Both 
>palladium, silver and nickel are catalysts for the Mills version of 
>dense hydrogen/deuterium - and that is not likely to coincidental.
>
The odd numbered elements tend to be less stable than even numbered elements,
because they have an unpaired proton. That's why you see the odd numbered
elements usually only having one or two stable isotopes. 
It also makes them prime candidates for a reaction where a proton is added and
an alpha particle is ejected, because both the alpha & the remaining nucleus are
both even numbered, and hence quite stable.

Silver is element number 47, and hence odd, so the reactions:-

1H+107Ag => 104Pd + 4He + 5.852 MeV

&

1H+109Ag => 106Pd + 4He + 6.043 MeV

may well be "easy". (...and the Pd is worth more than the Ag too, bonus point!)

By the same reasoning I would expect Cu to work too.

However in order for such a reaction to occur it may be necessary for there to
be plenty of atomic H on hand, which in turn implies that they are most likely
to occur when the Ag/Cu is in the presence of a spillover catalyst, such as Pd
or Ni.
Nano particle Cu/Ni alloy might be an interesting place to start, or a thorough
mixture of Cu & Ni nano particles.
Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html

Re: [Vo]: Type A palladium from JM... was Bose Einstein Condensate

[Brian Ahern]

From: Jones Beene <jone...@pacbell.net>
Sent: Monday, June 12, 2017 4:21 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]: Type A palladium from JM... was Bose Einstein Condensate

In response to:

 > "However, as I recall there is a story floating around that a certain
batch of Pd from the supplier seemed to work best.  If that is true then
the energy storage might have happened prior to the experiment when the
Pd was processed by the supplier.”

This subject comes up periodically. Here is a compiled answer from past
posts, many by Jed:

Type A Palladium alloy from Johnson Matthey (JM) was designed for
hydrogen gas purification since it essentially acts like porous membrane
for hydrogen only. The Pd75Ag25 alloy is used for this purpose because
it does not crack or distort upon absorption of hydrogen. The alloy is
also treated with ammonia to partially load hydrogen from the start and
then annealed.

This alloy was designed to have structural integrity under high loading
for hydrogen filters and this level of robustness happens to be the
quality needed for cold fusion. A main reason that cold fusion is
difficult to reproduce is because when bulk palladium without the silver
loads with deuterium, it cracks, bends, distorts and it will not load
above a certain level . . .

Note: the details about avoiding cracks can actually argue against the
theory of Storms about the need for cracks but there is a way to
rationalize both. You can find it in Storms book.

Fleischmann wrote: Most of our own investigations have been carried out
with a material which we have described as Johnson Matthey Material Type
A. This  is prepared by melting under a blanket gas of cracked ammonia
so that the concentrations of five key classes of impurities are being
controlled. Electrodes are then produced by a succession of steps of
square rolling, round rolling and, finally, drawing with appropriate
annealing steps in the  production cycle. [M. Fleischmann, Proc. ICCF-7,
p. 121].

Note: rolling and drawing also reduces cracks.

The ammonia atmosphere leaves a population of hydrogen in the palladium
which controls recrystallization. Unfortunately, this material is now
very difficult to acquire and there is practically none left in the
world, because Johnson Matthey stopped making it several years ago.
Palladium for diffusion tubes (filter tubes) is now made using a
different process in which the palladium is melted under argon.

Material made with the newer technique might also work satisfactorily in
cold fusion experiments, but Fleischmann never had  an opportunity to
test it, so he did not advocate this. Johnson Matthey has offered to
make more of the older style Type A for use in cold fusion experiments.
They will reportedly charge ~$50,000 per ingot...

It should be noted that several researchers are convinced that the
silver addition is also a reactant in some undefined nuclear way. Both
palladium, silver and nickel are catalysts for the Mills version of
dense hydrogen/deuterium - and that is not likely to coincidental.

Re: [Vo]: Type A palladium from JM... was Bose Einstein Condensate

[Jed Rothwell]

Thanks for bringing this up. I think it is important. Table 10 from Miles
is the most dramatic proof that so-called Type A Pd is particularly
effective. It is easier to see this in my version (which has a link to the
original), p. 6:

http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/RothwellJlessonsfro.pdf

Jones Beene  wrote:


> A main reason that cold fusion is difficult to reproduce is because when
> bulk palladium without the silver loads with deuterium, it cracks, bends,
> distorts and it will not load above a certain level . . .
>
> Note: the details about avoiding cracks can actually argue against the
> theory of Storms about the need for cracks but there is a way to
> rationalize both. You can find it in Storms book.
>

Ed wants SMALL cracks. Microscopic cracks. The ones that form in bad
palladium are macroscopic, or nearly macroscopic. When the cathode is
deloading, you can see a line of large bubbles form at one of these cracks.
Also, a Pd rod may visibly bend.

Materials that distorts, pillows up, or bends probably will not work. See:

http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/StormsEhowtoprodu.pdf

See also this paper I translated the other day, which is not about cold
fusion *per se*:

http://lenr-canr.org/Collections/JungDamagemechanism.pdf

(I uploaded the text from the first Jung paper here.)



> The ammonia atmosphere leaves a population of hydrogen in the palladium
> which controls recrystallization. Unfortunately, this material is now very
> difficult to acquire and there is practically none left in the world,
> because Johnson Matthey stopped making it several years ago. Palladium for
> diffusion tubes (filter tubes) is now made using a different process in
> which the palladium is melted under argon.
>

That material might work. It works as a filter just as well as the old
material did. Martin did not know if it would work or not. McKubre told me
they tried some and it worked well. He did not describe the details.



> Johnson Matthey has offered to make more of the older style Type A for use
> in cold fusion experiments. They will reportedly charge ~$50,000 per
> ingot...
>

Years ago that is what they quoted to Martin. I think he was a special
friend of JM and they were giving him a special price.

I doubt they could even make a batch of the original material now. The
equipment must be scrapped by now, and the people Martin knew there are
long gone.

I heard that the new method wastes less Pd and it is safer. I suppose the
purity is same or better. Martin told me the original material and method
was developed back in the 1930s.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]: Type A palladium from JM... was Bose Einstein Condensate

[Jones Beene]

In response to:

> "However, as I recall there is a story floating around that a certain 
batch of Pd from the supplier seemed to work best.  If that is true then 
the energy storage might have happened prior to the experiment when the 
Pd was processed by the supplier.”


This subject comes up periodically. Here is a compiled answer from past 
posts, many by Jed:


Type A Palladium alloy from Johnson Matthey (JM) was designed for 
hydrogen gas purification since it essentially acts like porous membrane 
for hydrogen only. The Pd75Ag25 alloy is used for this purpose because 
it does not crack or distort upon absorption of hydrogen. The alloy is 
also treated with ammonia to partially load hydrogen from the start and 
then annealed.


This alloy was designed to have structural integrity under high loading 
for hydrogen filters and this level of robustness happens to be the 
quality needed for cold fusion. A main reason that cold fusion is 
difficult to reproduce is because when bulk palladium without the silver 
loads with deuterium, it cracks, bends, distorts and it will not load 
above a certain level . . .


Note: the details about avoiding cracks can actually argue against the 
theory of Storms about the need for cracks but there is a way to 
rationalize both. You can find it in Storms book.


Fleischmann wrote: Most of our own investigations have been carried out 
with a material which we have described as Johnson Matthey Material Type 
A. This  is prepared by melting under a blanket gas of cracked ammonia 
so that the concentrations of five key classes of impurities are being 
controlled. Electrodes are then produced by a succession of steps of 
square rolling, round rolling and, finally, drawing with appropriate 
annealing steps in the  production cycle. [M. Fleischmann, Proc. ICCF-7, 
p. 121].


Note: rolling and drawing also reduces cracks.

The ammonia atmosphere leaves a population of hydrogen in the palladium 
which controls recrystallization. Unfortunately, this material is now 
very difficult to acquire and there is practically none left in the 
world, because Johnson Matthey stopped making it several years ago. 
Palladium for diffusion tubes (filter tubes) is now made using a 
different process in which the palladium is melted under argon.


Material made with the newer technique might also work satisfactorily in 
cold fusion experiments, but Fleischmann never had  an opportunity to 
test it, so he did not advocate this. Johnson Matthey has offered to 
make more of the older style Type A for use in cold fusion experiments. 
They will reportedly charge ~$50,000 per ingot...


It should be noted that several researchers are convinced that the 
silver addition is also a reactant in some undefined nuclear way. Both 
palladium, silver and nickel are catalysts for the Mills version of 
dense hydrogen/deuterium - and that is not likely to coincidental.