out that many of us, despite not being
paid, nevertheless are trying to make points. True enough.
Fred Bauder
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How about disabling new posts, or forwarding new posts to Wikimedia-l,
making a referral to Wikimedia-l in the info, and leaving the archives
open.
Fred Bauder
On Tue, 2 Dec 2014 00:26:31 +
Carcharoth carcharot...@googlemail.com wrote:
If the moderators of this mailing list are around
And I thought it was just the Baader, Browder, Bauer phenomenon...
Fred Bauder
On 8 March 2014 18:04, Brian J Mingus brian.min...@colorado.edu wrote:
The reason the name stuck is that Baader-Meinhof is a weird name, and
one
would not expect to see it multiple times independently in short
dyslexic font is visually horribly unappealing
Remarkably irritating font.
Thanks for the heads up though.
Fred
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- d.
A edit by User:Awohlgemuth, who judging from his name seems to be Alex
Wohl, author of the blog, seems to address this matter on the [[Tom C.
Clark]] article.
At wikien-l@lists.wikimedia.org ? Perhaps, but hard to start over from
the beginning.
Fred
Should not this discussion be held on he maillist for English wikipedia?
There is not much, if any, of what is being discussed that I can
recognize from my home wp
Anders
Fred Bauder skrev 2013
Gardenius
Von: Fred Bauder fredb...@fairpoint.net
An: Wikimedia Mailing List wikimedi...@lists.wikimedia.org
CC: wikien-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Gesendet: 13:28 Donnerstag, 5.September 2013
Betreff: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Please, let's save the Wikipedia - from
As with other inventions that produced an inferior product at a much
lower price, from the printing press to the steam-driven loom to
Wikipedia, what happens now is largely in the hands of the people
experimenting with the new tools, rather than defending themselves from
them.
The problem with open proxies is that anyone can use them; lists of them
are published. They are blocked routinely due mainly to spambots which
create many accounts and insert nonsense, usually with links to dubious
commercial sources.
I recommend you create an anonymous account and edit in that
Rick Falkvinge has been writing a book, Swarmwise, on how the Pirate
Party organised. He's been posting it a chapter at a time to his blog.
You know how Wikipedia/Wikimedia has (or had) the meme that voting is
evil? This sets out why.
the suspects family. Because if the
suspect has children the children could get bullied in school. Or
identify the suspect if he/she has no children or family.
On 4/22/13, Fred Bauder fredb...@fairpoint.net wrote:
There is extended discussion in England and Wales regarding whether
journalists
Do not create separate categories for male and female occupants of the
same position, such as Male Prime Ministers of the United Kingdom vs.
Female Prime Ministers of the United Kingdom. would seem to cover not
creating such categories as women mystery writers.
Fred
On 26 April 2013 05:19, Fred
What subcategories would American men novelists go into? of course women
would also go into them. By centuries would be one set of subcategories;
and genre: mystery, western, adventure, fantasy, etc.
Hard to see this as a deliberate slight.
Fred
Wikipedia's overwhelmingly male user-editors
categories.
Fred
That doesn't necessarily follow. Surely female American novelists
should appear in both categories.
On 25 Apr 2013 23:14, Sarah slimvir...@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu, Apr 25, 2013 at 2:48 PM, Fred Bauder fredb...@fairpoint.net
wrote:
What subcategories would American men novelists
There is extended discussion in England and Wales regarding whether
journalists should identify suspects that have been arrested.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2013/apr/21/press-intrusion-name-suspects
See also
http://www.official-documents.gov.uk/document/hc1213/hc07/0780/0780_ii.pdf
Fred
Within any field there is a general consensus regarding which textbooks,
references, and journal articles are authoritative, or at least
important. Those who teach or write in the field are familiar with these
and can be of great help in identifying them.
Fred
I think of interest to this
Don't get your panties in a bunch, David. Quote-mining? What is this,
Usenet?
He was probably there... He's an old coon dog and won't chase a rabbit.
Fred
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The point being that those who actually use incivility as a wedge to
divide the community are quite well aware of that, and this is what
needs to be stamped out as disruption, not intermittent breakdowns of
the civility code.
I saw a recent study suggesting, alarmingly, that online many
On 14 April 2013 14:29, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote:
Pretty much everything that's fucked up about Wikipedia is emergent
behaviour of people being a problem
I think you mean failure of management.
___
When we had a manager, Larry
relations person who is candid.
Fred Bauder
I am looking for a Wiki representative to assist in a change that needs
to be made to Tom Strickland's Wikipedia
pagehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Strickland. I need assistance
because he requested that his page be locked several years ago because
Right--and this would make all the difference. I am teaching a college
class for which an optional assignment is to learn to edit in Wikipedia.
Most of the students have had good experiences. Only a few have felt
incivility consciously as a tactic. We discuss this in class and a
few
On Sat, Apr 13, 2013 at 8:39 PM, Fred Bauder fredb...@fairpoint.net
wrote:
Once the herd got going, no one had much affect.
Managing the herd is what leaders were for.
--
gwern
http://www.gwern.net
In hierarchical organizations; Wikipedia is, more or less, horizontally
organized
Looking more at this, it seems that Wales has been given credit for
exactly this intervention:
Wales has, in the past, instructed Wikimedia's system administrators to
implement software changes that constitute de facto Wikipedia policy
changes. For instance, in December 2005, in response to
Obviously toilet training is involved. That is the source of the anal
personality. Need a study of toilet training of future editors...
Fred
Some recent musings reminded me that I never did find a good answer
for an old question of mine: does anything predict whether an editor
will lean
philosophy is something that shows a deep
psychological tendency to rape kittens.
That'll elevate the debate, I'm sure.
On Sat, Apr 13, 2013 at 8:06 AM, Fred Bauder fredb...@fairpoint.net
wrote:
Obviously toilet training is involved. That is the source of the anal
personality. Need a study
Why do you never hear complaints from inclusionists about Star Wars
articles being deleted? Because so many were deleted that the involved
editors finally bit the bullet and escaped to Wikia, and the only ones
that are left are either ones onboard with rigid constrictive policies
or have
On Sat, Apr 13, 2013 at 7:54 PM, Fred Bauder fredb...@fairpoint.net
wrote:
Jimbo and Angela did not play a significant role in debates over
inclusion and deletion
Indeed, that was my point. I don't think they did anything, or
intended anything of the kind, but they chose not to intervene
On Sat, Apr 13, 2013 at 7:54 PM, Fred Bauder fredb...@fairpoint.net
wrote:
Jimbo and Angela did not play a significant role in debates over
inclusion and deletion
Indeed, that was my point. I don't think they did anything, or
intended anything of the kind, but they chose not to intervene back
The problem he apparently trying to solve is that sites like Wikipedia
and YouTube are kind of noisy. As problem statements go, it lacks a
certain specificity...
I know what he means though. The snarling nonsense we sometimes encounter
on mailing lists or during editing disputes could fairly
More a failure of nerve; when he did not attract experts in the field he
gave authority to 2nd rate people. Present company excepted, of course.
Fred
The plan for Citizendium worked? First time that's ever been asserted.
It worked in the sense a plan was developed, but the plan was indeed
a
Internet scrubbing as a business:
http://english.caixin.com/2013-02-19/100492242_all.html
Fred
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Wikipedia is an encyclopaedia, and should illustrate its articles with
as many or as few images as appropriate. seems right.
Fred
Hi all,
Do content policies still get discussed on this list? I'm a bit out of
touch.
Anyway, I seem to keep running afoul of the image use policy.
Several
lots of pretty pictures of similar things
No
Fred
On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 10:51 AM, Carcharoth
carcharot...@googlemail.com wrote:
It's a tricky one. I favour more image use, not less, but then I work
with images a lot (outside Wikipedia), so I'm kind of biased there. I
Yeah, I wonder if
On 14 February 2013 15:15, Nathan nawr...@gmail.com wrote:
That job ad is so awesome I had to save it for posterity. Work as a
programmer slash executive assistant, for free! Be available 24 hours a
day
at a moments notice! Weekends off? Forget it! Mediocre candidates need
not
apply! Work
On Fri, 8 Feb 2013 06:55:33 -0700 (MST), Fred Bauder wrote:
Clearly, it is.
So is anybody going to do anything about it? Should Wikimedia Legal
be notified?
I cc'd them earlier, but here is another.
Fred
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Clearly, it is.
Fred
I just ran into this Twitter account:
https://twitter.com/Wikipedia411
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I think you are all dancing around the real subject.
Is wikipedia meant to help people have access to
knowledge, to apportion access to knowledge, or
to be a gate-keeper on which knowledge and at
which rates do people have access to it?
Wikipedia is a summary of generally accepted knowledge.
On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 5:57 PM, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Citizendium#So_what_and_how_do_we_write_about_this_sort_of_thing.3F
How to write about things like [[Citizendium]], [[Conservapedia]],
[[Veropedia]] - things that were notable at the time
If readers continue to want to read about it, then it continues to be
notable, no?
No, notablity was established by the amount of information published in
significant reliable sources. Reader, and editor, interest is
irrelevant.
My bad. My comment was based on the apparently mistaken
On 2/6/13, Fred Bauder fredb...@fairpoint.net wrote:
by at least occasional publishing of information about in in
contemporary
reliable sources.
That's not strictly tenable, as the range of history is so vast that
contemporary historians only ever write about a small portion
It's a problem. Information about the current status of these projects
may have fallen off so much that little or nothing can be obtained from a
notable source. So you are left with the splash and little else. No
obituary available.
Fred
I came across this today in the English Wikipedia:
In 2011, it has been reported that [the subject] has been caught
cheating
on his wife with a 30 year old intern turned reporter.
Is this worthy of a credible Encyclopedia or, if it needs reported at
all,
in a gossip tabloid rag?
Marc
Seems marginal, but it's not oversightable, for several reasons: It has a
reasonably reliable source (The National Enquirer has a good track record
in this area of interest); the subject and his date are public figures;
suppression would only make it worse.
The only part I have trouble with is
As you evidence, the matter is notable to a significant portion of the
population.
As to how someone else can consider the matter not notable, perhaps
speciation is occurring...
Fred
How is the very likely possibility of infidelity relative trivia? I
consider it fairly relevant to a section
All useful, interesting, or authoritative links on the subject of an
article should be included in external links and further reading,
including important primary sources, open courses, and published books.
Hi all,
Here is something I've been thinking about lately. Do we have a policy
or a
why should they
bother
politely pointing someone to OTRS, much less spend time and effort trying
to be diplomatic themselves?
Sxeptomaniac
Because they are decent capable people, take pride in doing a good job,
and are concerned about the accuracy and reputation of Wikipedia.
Fred
How exactly? On OTRS we handle much more sensitive private info :-)
Tom Morton
Checkuser may be employed in either instance if there is a good reason,
such as an apparent sock puppet or abuse of multiple accounts.
Fred
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On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 12:56 PM, Charles Matthews
charles.r.matth...@ntlworld.com wrote:
If something gets into OTRS and is from
a household name, it would be sensible to have it passed to someone
with a
lot of experience, but I don't know if that is part of the system.
Of course, we'd
If we know a VIP or they knows us they do get rather gentle and forgiving
treatment. They may email Jimbo and a quiet word may be passed to someone
to counsel them regarding how to deal with the community and any problems
in their article.
The thing is, VIPs generally get VIP treatment, personal
It's a new topic. Addresses the general question rather than rehashing Roth.
Fred
Fred, it's very difficult to keep track of mailing list threads if you
change the subject each time you post - this makes several in the last
couple of days on the same topic.
Can you keep them all under the
It seems I have not posed this as a question. The question is how could
we better handle VIP subjects who give us feedback, attempt to edit
either themselves or through an agent, or contact OTRS?
For example, could we assign some diplomatic people to handle such
situations, I've noticed CBS does
Wikipedia Co-Founder Larry Sanger has launched a campaign against the
online encyclopedia for content filters to be put in place.
Part of being a reference work. There are aspects of reality that are
offensive or disturbing. I think we've made considerable progress on this
matter in terms of
On Sep 10, 2012 9:20 PM, Risker risker...@gmail.com wrote:
In reality, many businesses and individuals have filtering in place to
prevent access to pages that include certain keywords. I've sometimes
been
stymied when following a legitimate link when I'm on a computer that
has
some form
The exercise of privilege is not usually called bullying, nor, when its
prerogatives are denied are its holders called victims.
Wikipedia does accord privilege to authority but only published authority.
Fred
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On 8 September 2012 14:21, Kathleen McCook klmcc...@gmail.com wrote:
When I sent a post I get a message that it was being held for
moderation;
then this gets posted.
Is there something one does to be unmoderated?
Everyone starts moderated. I clear the mod queue each morning and
Everybody here who contributes runs into a brick wall from time to time
and has to give up regarding some matter. The factual basis of the theory
about gender you're advancing is not established; as everyone experiences
the same frustrations.
I've tried to edit certain articles controlled by
The point is that the number of women editors is far smaller than men.
Is this not true, based on the statistics?
I am giving some reasons why many capable new contributors may withdraw
due to the response they receive from some editors.
Every woman is not Molly Ivins and when women leave as
points
about the process.
--Kathleen
She's definitely adding to the dialogue, even if I don't like her line of
thought.
Fred
On Sun, Sep 9, 2012 at 7:11 AM, Fred Bauder fredb...@fairpoint.net
wrote:
On 8 September 2012 14:21, Kathleen McCook klmcc...@gmail.com
wrote:
When I sent
For academics personal communication is
indeed sometimes an acceptable way to annotate a citation. But for this
type of issue an open letter to the New Yorker is surely better all
round.
Charles
Really, I don't know why a personal communication would not be sufficient
for us, provided we
It's not that there is bad behaviour that's okay with men and not okay
with
women. It's that women may notice it earlier or be more upset by it, more
likely to be seen as thin-skinned, rather than legitimately sensitive.
In
an environment that had more women, certain kinds of sensitivity
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-19527797
Author Roth rebukes Wikipedia over Human Stain edit
Following the publication of the New Yorker letter, the Wikipedia
entry was changed and a section noting the debate inserted near its
end.
Has this been mentioned on any other mailing
On 8 September 2012 13:22, Carcharoth carcharot...@googlemail.com
wrote:
I noticed that the article makes the (very common) error/assumption
that administrators exercise some sort of editorial control, when (in
principle), it is editors that exercise editorial control (when the
editorial
Fred, you say Roth is an elderly man googling and I am wondering if
there
is an age at which people using Wikipedia in the estimation of this list
become unfit to drive?
Roth is an active writer and renowned, Nobel Prize finalist...right this
moment..to dismiss him as an elderly man
We need to treat all subjects and potential subjects of articles with
respect and take their complaints seriously. An OTRS referral might have
helped. The material is not oversightable, but would fall within reports
of article errors.
Fred
...there is the issue of authentication. On the
We've had a problem with courtesy for a long time; the entire internet
has. We're one of the few organizations that has made a concerted and
determined effort to address it, see
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/29/weekinreview/29cohen.html
Fred
No it doesn't.
I'll give you good odds on me
In the concurring opinion, Judge Voros says that getting a sense of
the common usage or ordinary and plain meaning of a contract term is
precisely the purpose for which the lead opinion here cites Wikipedia.
Our reliance on this source is therefore, in my judgment,
appropriate.
On this, he
Making the blog-rounds, there was a Utah court case that includes
surprisingly lengthy (and generally positive) discussion on whether and
when to cite Wikipedia in court decisions:
* http://www.utcourts.gov/opinions/appopin/fire_insurance081612.pdf
See footnote 1 (page 5) in the majority
Making the blog-rounds, there was a Utah court case that includes
surprisingly lengthy (and generally positive) discussion on whether and
when to cite Wikipedia in court decisions:
* http://www.utcourts.gov/opinions/appopin/fire_insurance081612.pdf
See footnote 1 (page 5) in the majority
Does anyone know of a central location for article content queries and
requests?
That would have been Wikipedia:Content noticeboard However, hardly anyone
used it or monitored it, so it was a neglected corner. We need central
places which are used and monitored even if the stuff on them is not
On 3 July 2012 12:27, Fred Bauder fredb...@fairpoint.net wrote:
That would have been Wikipedia:Content noticeboard However, hardly
anyone
used it or monitored it, so it was a neglected corner. We need central
places which are used and monitored even if the stuff on them is not
finely
On 03/07/2012, at 5:01 AM, Andrew Gray andrew.g...@dunelm.org.uk
wrote:
On 3 July 2012 08:08, Carcharoth carcharot...@googlemail.com wrote:
As Kudpung notes, it'd be lovely if we had some kind of issue-tracking
system, but in practice we probably don't have the number of people
needed to
http://rjbs.manxome.org/rubric/entry/1959
All too familiar. A shit that can write a featured article is A-OK.
Fred
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According to recent research that has been shared with Wikimedia UK,
use of Wikipedia for medical information is almost universal among a
sample of doctors. Many of them praise its accuracy, but they are
The problem arises in the cases of articles which are libelous,
malicious, or manifestly unfair. Other instances, other than people who
are clearly notable, are not relevant; it doesn't matter whether we have
articles or not, promotional or critical, so it doesn't matter if the
subject has the
On Wed, 4 Apr 2012, George Herbert wrote:
BLP is a good idea and we got it for good reasons. These recent
developments, however, forget that we are *an encyclopedia*. It's into
barking mad territory.
No. We will not go to removing bios on demand on my watch.
I would suggest as a modest
Just a quick straw poll:
When was the last time you looked at the Wikipedia Manual of Style for
use in your own writing? And not to tell someone else they were wrong
about something.
Me, I can't remember. I think I *have*, but it would have been years ago.
- d.
I have no need to. The
Corporate Representatives for Ethical Wikipedia Engagement.Here's the
Facebook page:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/crewe.group/
I see a pile of Wikimedians engaging with them, which is promising.
I visited WMUK on Tuesday and chatted with Stevie Benton (the new
media person), Richard
On 29 March 2012 09:52, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote:
I visited WMUK on Tuesday and chatted with Stevie Benton (the new
media person), Richard Symonds and Daria Cybulska about this topic.
The approach we could think of that could *work* is pointing out if
you're caught with *what
On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 11:52 PM, Tom Morris t...@tommorris.org wrote:
As an admin who closes a fair few AfDs, and as a human being who isn't
a big fan of loudmouthed ideological posturing, I have to say that I
rather like such topic areas.
Well, there is currently an AfD in progress that
I'm posting here an argument I made in a recent AfD, explaining why I
think more stringent notability requirements are needed for
biographical articles:
The right point to assess someone's notability and write a definitive
article about them is at that point (or sometimes when they retire).
On Fri, Mar 23, 2012 at 12:44 PM, Fred Bauder fredb...@fairpoint.net
wrote:
Goes too far. A Procrustean Bed.
Really?
What about this proposal?
In light of such examples, I think its high time to start a
discussion on whether to amend Wikipedias BLP policy as follows:
*WP
n Fri, 23 Mar 2012, Carcharoth wrote:
[Some say] Notability, once attained, does not diminish.
Unfortunately, WP:N says that too. What you're saying makes sense, but
it is
contradicted by our policies. If someone can meet the requirements for
notability at one moment in time, they are
Does anyone agree with me that the inclusionists are more numerous than
the deletionists around the deletion discussions?
A
Sure, there can only be one Crinch.
Fred
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I suppose we're in favour of it. I note that [[digital inclusion]] is a
redlink, for the reason that it was a redirect to [[e-inclusion]]; which
went down under a PROD in October of last year, as [[WP:OR|Original
research]] about a [[WP:NEO|non-notable neologism]]. Something of a
disaster,
http://chronicle.com/article/The-Undue-Weight-of-Truth-on/130704/
Subject of a thread on foundation-l
http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/foundation-l/2012-February/subject.html
Fred
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To
http://savageminds.org/2012/01/19/wikipedia-encyclopedias/
- d.
Note that citing references is forbidden; proof Wikipedia is not a real
encyclopedia.
Fred
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I decided I hadn't reviewed a featured article candidate for a while
and Russell T Davies (writer of the Doctor Who reboot) was there.
Figured I'd give it a go.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell_T_Davies
I invite you to look, with reasonable care, at references 1 to 97.
Now, not only
On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 7:57 AM, Sam Blacketer sam.blacke...@gmail.com
wrote:
There might be some editors who want to start an immediate
investigation to
search for the members of this 'team' but I think that would probably
be a
waste of time which would put suspicion on a large number of
I can quite see why people do think Wikipedia Byzantine, which is the
basic message of what we are talking about. Probably trainee medics curse
the immune system as unreasonably complicated. The metaphor doesn't seem
to
me either too defensive or too stretched. I think we should bear in
On Sat, 3 Dec 2011, Steve Summit wrote:
Summary: Demi Moore, in a tweet but verified as being her, says that
her own
birth name is Demi. Wikipedians do not want to use this statement
because
the reliable sources say otherwise.
And, per that talk page, they've got some pretty darn good
...more reliable than Demi Moore herself.
Such a conclusion is nonsense.
To take a personal example, no amount of examination of my birth
certificate, or publication of its contents, is going to result in me
changing my name to what it says.
Fred
On Mon, Dec 5, 2011 at 2:19 PM, The Cunctator cuncta...@gmail.com
wrote:
Also, you can't FOIA birth certificates.
That's not true as a blanket statement. Conventionally FOIA refers to
the federal open records law, but there are others (under many names,
including FOIA) at the state level
Um, People Magazine got their information from an interview with Demi
Moore.
Heh, fact washed primary source.
Fred
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Now whatever the merits of his case, this chap does have a point about
the unfriendliness of the environment. It isn't so much that we've
gone out of our way to be unfriendly, but the tool we use to
interact--the wiki, in other
On 09/11/11 22:29, Peter Jacobi wrote:
Perhaps the usefulness of portals and categories can be combined.
For example, but unrealistic in the short term, clicking to a
standard category link should open the portal page of the same name
if it exists.
You could just put {{Portal:{{PAGENAME}}
... written anything good on the encyclopedia lately?
- d.
Well, yes,
I discovered the answer to the mystery of why Mao adopted Stalinism and
put it into History of the People's Republic of China (19491976)
A lot of people have wondered where he got those ideas. Turns out they
came from
On Sat, Sep 17, 2011 at 1:54 PM, Alan Liefting alieft...@ihug.co.nz
wrote:
Is it just me or do others find it difficult to instigate any sort of
changes to policies, guidelines, layout, Manual of Style and related
matters regardless of how minor they are?
Could it be that WP is a reflection
People should [stop] making negative insinuations about the majority or
claims
of
mythical idiots that oppose nearly any sensible idea. Perhaps if you
have
proposed or supported a change that has not been implemented it was just
a
poor idea.
Yes, we should assume good faith.
Fred
On Sep 16, 2011 6:35 PM, Fred Bauder fredb...@fairpoint.net wrote:
It is difficult to balance the needs of the general public, which reads
more at a 5th grade level than a 9th grade level, with the need to
present comprehensive information that would be of use to an
oncologist.
If we
Is it just me or do others find it difficult to instigate any sort of
changes to policies, guidelines, layout, Manual of Style and related
matters regardless of how minor they are?
Could it be that WP is a reflection of human behaviour and has become a
talkfest where nothing changes because
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